The Best Of The Pick Up - MAFS relationship expert John Aiken on why they do that photo ranker challenge
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This episode is recorded on Gavigal land of the Aurora Nation. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany and this is our radio show The Pickup. This is where we package up all the goodness from the week that we do on air and give it to you in one sweet little spot. We do. Do you know what? We had such a massive show on The Pickup this week. So we had, I mean, two very big interviews

One of them that I absolutely adored speaking to and talking about was Angie Kent, who you guys obviously know. Angie Kent, she was our Australian Bachelorette, but she's actually going to be starring on a new reality TV show. And she posted about this recently on her social media and the reaction has just been so beautiful. So Angie is doing the new show. It's only season three of Big Little Miracles, which if you're familiar with the show, you would know what it is, but it's following women and families who

through IVF and through their motherhood journeys or their journeys towards becoming a mother. And Angie had signed up for it, but didn't give a lot away on her social media. And so we really wanted to talk to her about what that process was like, why she wanted to undertake it on her

own and also like what it involved because she had to go through the process of finding a sperm donor and kind of what it looks like to her, this idea of maybe entering motherhood as a single mum through an IVF journey. It's a really nice chat. And to be honest, I can't wait to watch the series and just not for Angie, but for everybody, because it's really wholesome. It's really nice to see what other families are going through. And I think a lot of people feel way less alone when they say, oh, I'm not the only one that

that feels this or that's experiencing this. Completely. And going from like the most wholesome reality TV to then interviewing the most unwholesome reality TV. Yeah. I actually love this interview though. I could have talked to him forever. We had John Aiken on who is the relationship specialist on maths. Now, you know,

If you've been with us for a while, Laura is obsessed with maths. I've always been like dipping in and out because it gives me wild anxiety and it's such a train wreck. But it was fascinating talking to John about why we're so obsessed with it, all the shit that's going down. He spilled a little bit of tea actually. Well, also this –

season has been the biggest rating season and in a world where everyone talks about free to air TV as though the ratings are going down and down and down which statistically across the board they are for all other shows it's pretty incredible that at season 12 maths has managed to eclipse their biggest ratings yet it's because you can't look

away. Oh, totally. But also there's some really, I mean, it provides so much content for us on Life Uncut. We talk about so many things that happen on that show because it really is kind of this social experiment of what you should and shouldn't do in a relationship. Yeah. But it was interesting talking to John because sometimes it's

The question is raised, like why do you match these types of people who are so clearly ill-fitting for each other and why do you almost like manufacture the toxicity? And we do get into all of that with him. I love the chat and, yeah, there's some other good smarty things in there as well, everyone. And we had a lot of fun this week. We did. That's all coming up on the show, so let's get into it. Laura, I have a question, genuine question. I know that you're married now, but back in the dating world, how much of a red flag do you think it is for,

on the kind of dog that somebody has. Like if you turn up to a date and they say that they have a particular breed of dog, is that a red flag for you or are you just like anything's welcome? I'd like to say it's not, but I do think that a breed of dog...

kind of indicates the type of person a little bit. Like you wouldn't normally see a chihuahua with like a strong man. No, I think you're making some big stereotypes. I am. Yeah, that's a stereotype for you. Hang on. Why do you ask? Thanks for asking. So on Married at First Sight last night, there's this couple that is just like the couple themselves are screaming red flags, Jackie and Ryan. So I just want to give you a bit of a background on who they are. Jackie, she's this former Miss New Zealand. She's beautiful, but she's...

describes herself as like a model, a tap dancer, ballerina, netball, basketball player, coach, umpire, hiker, corporate professional, marathon runner and reader of 2000 books. She said she's from a good lineage. Better than everyone is what I'm getting from that description. Now, Ryan, who she married, has described himself as a warrior. So this is self-description. Jackie's not into him. She's not feeling it. He thinks she's hot. She's like, no, thank you. You're not good enough for me, basically. And she's been convinced to give him another chance.

She's like, someone said to her, find some commonality. Try and find something you can connect with him. Ask him what dog he has. Now you need to listen to how this unfolded. Ryan, what kind of dog do you have? I have a Kelpie Cross Staffy. I was just looking for my dog because I had my house and yeah, it needs to be the right one. I didn't really like Ryan's choice of dog. That's kind of a concern. I don't really like Staffies. Like I would always prefer to go for a dog whose instincts are

to go out and hunt for itself, like hunt rabbits and stuff, which is why I like cocker spaniels and hunted dogs. It's more what it says about the guy. I need him to impress me and owning a statue. It's just really unimpressive. It's a huge red flag.

I'm sorry. That's so stupid. I understand what she's saying. Like, I understand that some people are doggists. Like, a dog breed might not be for you. But I think this chick is at a stretch trying to find any excuse she can to not be matched with this guy, which I get. He's a warrior, but maybe he's not her warrior. But I don't know. There are dog breeds that I don't froth.

But I don't think I'd ever dump anyone for the fact that they had that dog. Is there anyone that you would kind of judge or not date based on their dog breed? Like what would be the dog breed for you that you're like, red flags. Sorry to everyone who has this dog breed.

Funnily enough, funny that you say this and like hear me out first. I love all dogs, but the one dog that does give me anxiety now is our Staffy Pitbulls. And the reason I say that is because I understand they can be beautiful dogs. Unfortunately for me, one severely attacked my dog in front of me and it was horrific.

Yeah, okay, that's scarring. It was horrific. It was mauling it to death in front of me. Pretty. We had to put our finger in its butt. It was the only reason we saved it. It was the only way we could save it. I wish this was a fake story. Sorry, I thought you meant... There's butthole. I thought you meant you stuck your finger in the dog that was being... Not the one that was doing the mauling, the one that...

No, why would I do the one that's been attacked, Laura? I was like, now's not the time. No. So we were very panicked. It was at the beach. This dog had my dog by the neck. And I just remember my friend and I were there looking at each other and it was like slow-mo. We looked at each other. We were like, we're going to have to do it. I remember hearing this myth.

that the only other way to stop a dog and duck is to put your finger in its butt. So that's what we did. And then that was how I saved my dog. Wow. Don't ever say you don't learn anything here at the pick-up. Please don't take that advice. To this day, I don't know if it was sheer luck or if it's a technique. Britt, I'm so sorry. That is actually a very traumatic story. It is. You lost me before you started. What about you? Okay.

No, because I have a big dog that a lot of people are scared of. Just trying to get this back on track. He's a bull Arab, which is like a cross between a Great Dane, a bull Mastiff and a Dalmatian. But he's big and he makes a lot of noise. If he doesn't like someone, he'll bark and it's a scary bark. Yeah, but he's also got

He's got three legs. He doesn't come at you very fast. No, and he's a gentle, gentle giant. He has a big bark, but he'd never do anything. And so I guess because I adopted him, it's changed my perception on big dogs and also dogs that might stereotypically be scary dogs. And this whole thing about like I'm going to judge a guy that I'm dating based on the fact that he has a staff, he just seems so stupid to me. Judge a man who owns a cat.

Not a man who owns a Stabby. That's a joke. I own a cat. I love my cat. Judge a man that cheats. Judge a man that treats you badly. Don't judge a warrior that's just showing off. Ha!

Okay, look, we cannot stop laughing about a case that's come out of the UK and it has sent me. It's a court case. You shouldn't be laughing. Take it seriously. Oh, it has sent me several times today, but you all need to be updated on it. So there is a woman, her name is Rhianna Evans, and she has been prosecuted for sending virtual farts to her current boyfriend's ex-girlfriend. She's a cyber farta. She's a cyber farta. The first of its kind. So funny.

We understand that this is so dumb. Please don't think that we all so objectively don't know how dumb this is, but it's very funny. Okay, so she started dating this guy and then she was so outraged by the way that his ex had treated him when they had been together. Allegedly treated him. Allegedly. It's all alleged except she's been the one who's got now a criminal conviction. So she started video recording her own farts and maliciously sending that video content to her current boyfriend's ex-girlfriend who obviously like –

I don't know, what do you do? You take it to the police and like prosecuted her for like sending this sort of cyber farting. It's so outrageous, this whole thing. Well, the funny thing is here, she just sent it from her normal phone. Like it wasn't a burner phone. She was just opening her phone up, letting rip, like, and it wasn't just audio. It was video. It was, you could probably see the puff.

It was video. It started just before Christmas. It went over a whole period. And I guess that's the holiday spirit. She was in the most beautiful time of year and she was getting harassed with cyber farts. So she thought, stuff you. She actually had a quote, sorry, that she just wanted to feel safe in my home.

Which apparently the farting made her feel unsafe at home. Britt, I'm still hung up on the fact that you said that he would have recorded a visual puff and all I'm thinking of is like a cartoon and like a green gas of puff coming out. And I'm like, I hope you do know it doesn't actually look like

that. I think it was more an audio visual sensory overload for her. Maybe she saw her butt. I don't know because she did say that it was like it's malicious communication. That's what it's come across as. But she did say that they were like really disturbing and inappropriate, indecent and grossly offensive videos. So she took it to the police. Imagine going to the police and they're like, what can we help you with?

And she said, I'm getting fart messages. That's what you said. I'm getting farted at. Okay, two parts of this though. One, I'm glad the police took it seriously because it does seem like with the dawn of the internet, every day we're discovering new ways that people can just be assaulted online. Okay. And, you know, new and creative and wacky ways. But secondly...

She says that she was doing it in support of her current boyfriend. Imagine being the boyfriend. Imagine finding out that your current girlfriend was doing this. Like you would have this real moment of like, oh, okay, I'm actually dating a crazy person. Like this is not okay. So she's, she's not only did she get a 300 pound fine for it, she has to serve a year long community order and she has a two year restraining order against her. Like she has a proper criminal conviction for sending fart videos to

To the ex. Like, it's crazy. She did admit she does have some regrets from the cyber farting. Thank God. But she did never think that farting into her phone would land her in court. What?

It's actually ridiculous. I just question why would she give this content away for free? There's so many people on OnlyFans who actually have accounts for things like this and people pay good money to receive this kind of content. There's absolutely an audience out there for it. So why would you do it in a way that's going to land you in trouble? Would you ever do that if you broke up with an ex?

Like, would you fart to someone to get back at them? It just seems like such a weird flex. Not now. Like, people would be like, hey, that's that girl from The Pickup. But in my 20s, I did some crazy stuff. Like, I just, just, no, I would never have videoed myself farting as a get back. But like, part of me can understand how you might get there. Yeah.

Now, we are talking about the show that everyone is talking about, and I'm very sorry to my husband, but it's not. I'm a celebrity. Get me out of here. We talk about that enough. Enough. Enough. It's the one that I'm missing out on at the moment that I would love to be watching, Married at First Sight. I have watched every single season, and we are currently on season 12. But, Britt, you've been keeping up.

Are you at least keeping up with what's happening this year? Do you know what? I'm trying to keep up. So I'm going to make an admission here. I have not been a maths watcher in the last 12 seasons. I try and it gives me wild anxiety, like the absolute train wrecks on that show. Not the people, but sometimes the relationships themselves. Actually, sometimes the people. No, sometimes the people too. Like sometimes I want to.

I'm all about love. We love love, but sometimes I want to throw my remote at the screen. But we are very honoured to be in the presence of relationship expert royalty. Maths greatness. Maths greatness. We have John Aitken here, relationship expert, also the man who is responsible for pairing some of these seemingly mismatched pairs together. Yes, indeed. And it's great to be here. Welcome to the show. Yeah, it's nice to be in studio with you both.

It's season 12, which is amazing because we didn't really see it happening in this way. You know, when you start a reality show, you're kind of not sure whether it'll hit or miss. Yeah. John, you were just saying that the ratings are through the roof for this season. Yeah, they've been monstrous. Bigger than any of the episodes of Series 11 last year. Wow. The dinner party one that we had just recently.

And it's hard to know what it is. I mean, there's a real thirst that I think people have for relationship shows. And this is kind of unique in that couples watch it to learn what not to do, but also singles watch it and go, oh, there are red flags. I think we need to avoid that. So it sort of covers both sort of groups. But then I think also there's this element of can strangers get a fairy tale? Yeah.

when you match them up. Yeah. Well, Laura did. I'm living proof that sometimes it does work. And I'm proof that it doesn't, but we're not going to go back and revisit that. So...

A question that I was just asking you off air and you said you're happy to talk about it. How much of the casting, because sometimes you're like brilliant. We look at people like Jules Robinson and Cam, like they were amazing, happy ending. Sometimes I look at it and I said, who put these two people together? But it was you. So how much of it is you and how much of it is, you know, the behind the scenes casting? Do you work together to find these couples? Yeah.

Yeah, so with the experts, we would look at them over a two-month period. We Zoom call them. We look at their background bios. We test them, things like attachment theory and communication styles, values, their personality traits, and then we put them together. And then it's really a combination of the matches that we throw up but also the network and the production company.

And like you could imagine, one of the great things with maths is that it can be quite diverse. So we might have a great match, but we've got too many blondes on the show. So they might say, all right, well, let's look for a different sort of looking couple.

or we need a different culture, Italian, Lebanese, Greek, or we need a 50-something. So we can kind of go out and really get quite a broad range. But certainly the experts are heavily involved. I also think that that's what really sets it apart as a show because as a viewer, there is always somebody who is reflected, like you're reflected back in. And I don't mean the craziness of it, but there's always someone who you could potentially relate to in that relationship dynamic. Yeah.

Whereas like when you look at shows like The Bachelor, which obviously we have, I mean, we've got skin in the game with that. There is only one kind and it's hot guy and lots of hot girls and that's it. So, you know, for anyone who's in an older demographic who's watching, they're isolated from that kind of dating experience. That's right. And I think that's one of the secret sources of the show, the diversity of the cast. I think also...

the expert's role in the show has become very much more about calling out bad behavior. Which there's plenty of. Which there is plenty of. And they come back at us just as hard. And in most reality concepts or shows, the experts are put on a pedestal, you know, and they're seen as all-knowing. And so if you've burnt the lasagna or if you've got a bad kitchen design, you know,

they don't really get too upset about it, you know. Whereas on our show, the experts really are in the firing line and that when I sit down with our couples, they want to get things off their chest. And I'm pointing out patterns in their lives that are very, very personal and they don't like it. And so I think one of the interesting things when you watch it is how we respond as couples but also as experts to that confrontation. Have you had any big brawls that haven't made it?

Like made it to air. Oh, I feel like that's the stuff that's making it straight to air. No, like sometimes I feel like stuff goes on. I mean, I know I've done reality, but I know there's a lot of stuff that goes on that's left on the cutting room floor for whatever reason. But has there ever been a moment where you are having this confrontation with someone and it's just gone too far?

I don't think it's gone too far, but I certainly go as hard as I can because I don't know what's going to make the edit. But it's better off saying everything you want to say and getting it out there rather than holding back and missing your opportunity. So really for me, when I'm sitting in front of them, I don't know what's coming.

And it's not scripted or staged. We're just sitting there delivering. But I've got to say it in a short, sharp way that's going to get them to stand up straight. You've already had some bombshells. I mean, we're only a couple of episodes deep and there's been some bombshells. People are leaving. They're not happy with who they've been matched with. I know. So to me...

And I mean, for most people who watch it, I think the normal response now is like, you've seen enough of the show that surely you know as a participant that you may not get matched with someone who is your ideal bride or groom. So we've seen Tim has walked out at this point. He wasn't happy with his bride who he would match with. And I know Australia has some very big feelings about that. Big feelings. But how do you respond to that when you're like,

You know that this is the process of the show. Why are you pretending like you didn't know that this is literally the format? That's right. And Elliot also has left the show. This was Tradwife, man. Yes, yes. So I think what it does right now on the show is it reflects what's going on in the real world. And that's one of the things with the show is we tap into the zeitgeist of

So if it's gaslighting, if it's trad wives, warrior men, you know, if it's speaking your truth, whatever's going on out there, it shows up. No one's ever said to me, I'll be a warrior. I don't know how much that's happening. Do you know what? And I'd never heard that. And then when I was interviewing them this year, I'm saying, okay, so what's your approach to dating? I want to be a warrior. And I'm like, well, what does that mean? No one has ever gotten the ick faster than hearing a man say, I'm a warrior man. I'm your warrior.

Go and play World of Warcraft. But then, you know, I'm not heavily across TikTok, but then I started to hear the women on the show talking about, well, I want to be a trad wife. I want to serve. I don't want a career. I really want the guy to take the lead but also be really, really rich.

Don't be poor and take the lead. That's right. Be rich and take the lead. So I'm sort of sitting there hearing this stuff thinking, wow, this is a very different flavor of maths that's going to hit this year. And I think it's going to get very noisy. And I think it has as a result of that. What about?

the feedback for you? I mean, obviously it is your job to guide these couples so that they aren't completely toxic and don't destroy each other in the process. But what about the feedback when couples have been paired that seemingly from the outside are very toxic to each other or seem to be poorly paired? How do they come, like, why is it that you've put them together and made that choice? Yeah, so what you're seeing there is what we're seeing, which is after knowing them for two months and drilling down and getting all the info to match them comparatively

In a way that's very compatible. What we don't know is what's going to happen when the cameras roll. And you will have seen this because you've experienced it. You have skin in the game. What is going to happen when at 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. you've got a camera on you and you're trying to get to know your partner and also get along in the group?

And what we find is that a seemingly compatible couple suddenly blows up in front of us and they look dreadful together. It might be a guy realizes, you know what, I'm not into commitment or I've got a type or there's no chemistry or one of the women will say, you know what, I was...

I was really – I thought I was ready for intimacy but actually – Not with him. Not with him. Or like I thought he had more zeros in the bank and he doesn't. Yeah, yeah. So you're getting this sort of explosion or implosion of the couple that you've spent months and months getting to know. So we get just as disappointed as everybody else when they don't make it. Yeah. But I also think this year, just coming back to that thing that you were talking about with leaving the show,

Out there in the dating world, what they're telling me is that commitment is hard to find. Oh, yes, absolutely. Dating apps. I dated everyone in Sydney and then ended up on a reality show to find my guy. It's so hard. Right. And so some of them even said to me, John, I'm coming on maths because at least the guy –

that you match me with will stick around for longer than one date. Wow. That is very telling. That was telling to me. John, if you can stick around, we've got to go to a break, but I'm so fascinated and I have so many more questions for you that we're going to hit you up. So short break and we'll be back in a minute.

Now, John, you don't know this. I mean, there's no way for you to know this, but I'm going to tell you. You featured very heavily in our girls' group chat recently. And it's because there was a photo of you that appeared. He knows what it's going to be. It was a screenshot and there was something

seemingly quite unfortunate or very fortunate, depending on what circumstance you might be in, in the background of one of your photos. Oh, yes, I did see that. We need clarity, everyone. What is this? Yeah, well, can you tell me what are they suggesting that it is? El butt pluggo. In case anyone's unsure. That's what they say in Spain. In case anyone's unsure. There's a very blurred background image. There's a thing that's sitting on a mantelpiece. It

It looks like it's holding up a book, but it could also be inserted somewhere. Yeah. L-butt plugger. Be holding something open. Do you know what? Put it to bed. I'm going to be honest. I don't know what it is. Put it to bed, John. But I can tell you it is not mine. I've never heard of it.

It is. It's someone else's butt plug. Of course it is. Because you know reality TV so well, when you come on to do interviews, you will have sets that you just walk in, you sit down, you do your thing. John, you got stitched up. And so somebody. John, you know what you're reminding me of? Go on.

The last 13 years of my life, I've been a hospital worker. I'm a radiographer in a hospital. This big career change. And the number of people that come in, like a big part of my job was people that had some L-butt plugos or whatever. Usually not that. Not that. Because that's the correct apparatus, something foreign, foreign object. That gets sucked up their buttocks, right? So we've got to find it in their abdomen.

It's a tricky job. You just reminded me of that because the number one thing they say is like there'll be like a pool ball up there. That's right. And I'll be like, how did this happen? They're like, I don't know.

I don't know. I was playing pool and then it was there and it just happened. You know what it's like. I slipped. I slipped and fell on the pool table. There's so many things like that. What a job that you had. That's what you just gave me. Anyway, all right, you heard it here. It was a fake set from John. John, so the most controversial thing, I mean, it's already happened on this season of Maths. One of the most controversial episodes is the photo ranking. Oh, yeah. But it happens every season. Every season. Now, the thing about that is,

The thing about that challenge is it's really a test of emotional intelligence and how you handle delicate. Well, hear me out. Let me try and describe it. Most of our couples do it very well. They will say, you know what, I'm going to put my partner first.

But there's always a handful every year who completely drop the ball and they will be putting in their mind the hottest girl first. They will put their partner way down the list and it completely blows the relationship up. Totally. And what it's taught us is that people really are not able to have delicate conversations or read the room or even understand.

the bigger picture here. And often they never recover from that. And you're just seeing it now. There's a couple of individuals in this episode coming up that just do it very badly. But do you think it's also because, I mean, and it's something we see in dating all the time, people who...

disguise honesty as a reason to be mean. It's like, oh, well, I'm being honest, so you can't be angry at me. It's objectively you're just not as hot as Sarah. Yeah, we had that in maths maybe two, three years ago. Dom and Olivia really had this great rivalry for the ages. Oh, yeah. But it would get incredibly intense and very personal. And they would say, look, we're just speaking our truth. And what we had to reflect back to them is that,

Being honest doesn't mean that you can assassinate a person's character and really be rude. Well, it's also just like almost that, like I'm just speaking my truth really from the outset. It sounds like you're weaponising therapy talk. Like you know enough of it but now you're manipulating how to use it. But then on the flip side, like are we then encouraging lying? Like if you don't think your partner's the hottest there and – Yes, Brittany, you lie. Why would you say anything?

Because I don't think we even have the competition. I don't think we have the challenge. I remember for our Bachelor audition like seven years ago,

This is some real goss for you, John. Oh, I love it. When in the audition, there were just maybe 20 girls in the room and they'd say, cool, now it's time, line yourself up, yourself. Hottest at this end, best dressed. So cheap. So mean. And to who you think is a little less attractive. And you had to slot yourself in. In person. Yeah, in person. And you just had to put yourself in the line and sometimes you'd stand somewhere and someone would like push you out and you'd be like, oh, I'll go down the line. Britt, you did that in the audition. We did it as a group date. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, but I came after you. They probably realized quick smart. We can't have this on TV. Hang on. Back to maths. Another question. Sorry, this is like a railroad interview. Pulling the curtain back. John's like, we'll use it on the next season. Trademark. So one question I do have, and there's been two couples on this season that have known each other. Like before they've had a loose date or they had a bit more of a connection and then they've ended up at the end of the aisle being like, oh my God, you're the guy that ghosted me. Yeah.

Is there any part of that that you guys know about when you cast? Because I know you go through, you do your due diligence. So you look at someone, you're like, okay, let's see who they know on Instagram or what their life looks like. Surely there was some sort of a flag where you guys know that they might know each other.

No. It was completely. We absolutely had no idea. That's grim for Australia's dating scene. I know. Wow. I know. So it does reflect that, the smaller pool that's out there. But also. You've got no hope but to date the guy that ghosted you last week. I know. But the thing is when you're doing your background checks and you're getting to know them, you talk to them about their significant relationships. You know, three, four years together. They might have been married and now divorced. Yeah.

but you don't find out about a one-night stand or a fling that happened a year ago. You know, they may not even know the names of the people that they've gone out on a date with. Yeah, right. We were talking about this on Life Uncut, our podcast, and because I think...

anyone who objectively would look at the show would assume that that was a manufactured moment from producers. And we kind of got to the point where we were like, we actually think it was a producer's dream and it was serendipitous that it fell into place because how would you manufacture finding two people where one of them had once upon a time ghosted them on a date? Like it's almost too arbitrary to find that information out about someone for it to have happened in the way it did. That's right. And when we did find out about it,

You know, you're always thinking with Married at First Sight, what do we do here? This is a different new storyline. Do we cut it and get a new couple in or do we just lean into it? And with maths, we always lean into it. Yeah, what if you did like a spin-off that's like Married at Second Sight?

I mean, we get all sorts of things. Celebrity maths, you know, getting people on. I mean, there's so many different versions of maths after dark, a bit more R-rated. Isn't that just like OnlyFans? No, you guys would get cancelled for that. If you put maths after dark, like someone's getting sued. Well, do you think, John, on a serious note for a second,

Do you think you have more likelihood of it working out if you, just like these couples that had met, right? They did go on a date and they did work out that it wasn't great. You ghosted me. You're a bit of a dick. Do we have to hold that against that person knowing that maybe it was just a one-off and they're not a bad person? Or do you think that it gives them more of a success story maybe? Yeah.

Well, that's the interesting thing about those two storylines. These couples know each other. We've never seen it before. And I didn't know what would happen. What's their experience going to be like? Because how they broke up,

in the past has an influence. Also, whether they come in with a mindset of, well, the experts are here now, so maybe we're going to get a fresh new relationship or are they going to go, you know what, we've done this before. This didn't work. This isn't going to work now either. So we were really not sure.

whether they were going to be able to navigate it. And it is, they do have some highs and some lows along the way. So it is, it's a very fresh sort of look to the show with that happening in it. Yeah. John, I have one more question for you. Who do you think is the biggest red flag at this season? Biggest red flag. I mean,

Well, probably what I would say is that the couples, I'd say the couples that are most entrenched in their ideas. So immediately Lauren and Elliot, when you watch them together, I mean, we know why we matched them, but when we watched them and the way they talked and, you know, one being so inflexible about his deal breakers, that's always a real red flag to me. Um,

And not just him, there's couples there as well that are caught in that battle of I'm right, you're wrong. You know, that point scoring that always happens. Tip for tap. That's a real red flag as well. And you're starting to see some of it come out of the dinner parties, which then becomes even more of a problem at the commitment ceremonies. Yeah.

Oh, I can't wait for I'm a Celebrity to finish so I can watch the rest of it. I'm at the edge of my seat. What about Matty J in the jungle? He's doing well, except he's getting very thin. I was going to say. He's hungry. He's got that whole jungle look going on. You might not have heard yet, but he's in the bad books. He did just admit live on TV that he would rather eat a mango than have sex with Laura at the moment. Matty J, you didn't. He did. He's tired. Can you blame the man? He needs some sugars and then we'll have sex. It's fine. Maybe he's on Mavs next year. Yeah.

I mean, I tell you what, it is hard to look good in the jungle, but he manages it. He is a good-looking rooster. It makes sense as to why once upon a time he was chosen to be the bachelor. I know. John, it's an absolute delight. Everyone, Married at First Sight. It returns 7.30pm tonight on Channel 9 and 9 Now. Thanks for joining us. It's been a pleasure. The love of my life, Ben, my fiancé, he lives on the other side of the world. He just moved last week to Italy. Long-distance relationships. Yeah, they sound hard. Well, no, they have

no, they have their pros and cons. Some days they suck. And some days I'm like, this is the best thing because you just don't have any other stress. Like you're not here. I'm in a relationship, but I don't have to see you. It's great. Anyway, just to set the scene. So my fiance is a football player, like a soccer player. And he just made the move to this, um,

Italian team. So not that I know much about it, but it's called the Serie A League, which is apparently great. Like, you know, he's in the same league now as like AC Milan. Well, we had him on the show last week and he was telling us that this is like one of the top five soccer leagues in the world. So he's really excited about it. It's amazing. And so I'm so proud of him. And because we're long distance, I try to watch everything that he's involved in on TV. Like I'm always trying to watch it. If I can't watch it, I pretend to and I at least like it.

Google the highlights so I can talk to him about it. So it was the Italian debut on TV a couple of nights ago. So I've gotten up and I've put the TV on and I'm ready to watch. I've got on the big screen. And then what happens is usually they just start filming a match when the players come out onto the pitch. Like that's usually when the streaming starts, right?

All of a sudden, for some reason, the cameras have decided to go into the change room. Maybe it was because like, because obviously it's live, right? Yeah. The game's live. So maybe it was like a couple of minutes later than what they thought it was going to be for the TV cross. And so they had some time to film. No, I think it's a normal thing, but it's not normal for Ben. So he didn't know. So Ben's in the change room with all the guys. They're getting ready.

Ben was in his undies, like because he was obviously taking longer and didn't realize there was any urgency to put his clothes on. So the guy's half naked. I mean, he looks great. He's a fine specimen. Yeah.

But he had his undies on and all of a sudden on my big screen TV is my fiance in his undies. Ben's like, I sort of saw the camera come in and zoom in on him, but he's like, I didn't understand what they were doing. And he's like, I didn't think it was going to be streaming. So he just kept going about his day in his undies and everyone else was dressed. Everyone else was dressed in the locker room and he was just moseying through, they probably

We were like, wow, this Swiss guy's got really great confidence. Apparently there are a few other people in there, like in their tights. They wear little sporty tights and stuff. Cute. Hot. But I said it to him after it. I was like, babe, talk me through the choice to going TV in your undies. And I could tell for a second he tried to own it. He was like, oh, yeah, it's like whatever. I just thought I would do it. And I was like, you didn't know, did you? He was like, no.

Have you ever had an instance? I mean, you've been on TV plenty of times, like we established the other day. There isn't a reality TV show you haven't done yet. Oh, right, mate. There's loads I haven't done. Excuse you. Okay. Have you ever had a moment where you watched it back and something happened that you were like, that wasn't meant to be there? Yes. So when I shot The Bachelor with the honey badger, lest we forget, seven years ago. I mean, he's not dead, but. No, but it's dead to me. I was having this like deep and meaningful with him.

beautiful sparkly dress, quite low cut. The cameras were all on us and it was like a 15 minute chat. And then I finally was like, why did my breasts feel so cold? One of my boobs was just completely out. Like my strap had fallen down and I hadn't noticed. And I've just, my boob was out and I was just talking on camera. No. Yep. Why didn't he tell you? Sorry, your boob flapped out. What's he going to say? I,

No, that almost makes me mad at him. If someone is talking to you and their entire boob is out of their top, I know he was probably enjoying it at the time. They're great. But I would think that he would stop you and be like, hey, love, we're all on camera right now. Just want to put the girly back in. I made it sound like it was 15 minutes. It was probably 30 seconds. I don't want anyone to go and hate on him. He probably didn't even notice. It didn't even make it to TV. No, it didn't make. No, they can't put your boobie on TV. Your boobie.

They can't put that on TV. Has that happened to you? No, nothing on TV, thankfully. The only thing that really comes to mind that was diabolically embarrassing was before The Bachelor. So like when The Bachelor was on TV and like at that time the paps follow you around and there's lots of Daily Mail articles that come out and some of the pap photos are flattering and some of them are particularly unflattering. And there was this one day where I was wearing like a floaty little dress and I was going to the post office so I had postage in both my arms and

And I was walking up the steps and I didn't even know that there was a paparazzi there until the next day when I opened up Daily Mail. And it was just all these photos of my skirt had been blown up at the back. But I was wearing really discreet G-strings. So it looked like I just had no underwear on. And for some reason, I still remember because all of these...

middle-aged women messaged me all in one and I don't know whether it was the one troll account with lots of accounts but I received so many messages from women who would be like why wouldn't you wear underwear you're so disrespectful I did have undies on you're like sorry it wasn't

I didn't tuck my skirt into my undies on purpose. No, it was like we can find the photo. It was my entire ass. Anyway, we love you, Ben. I'll never complain. Actually, do you know what? Someone find the photo. It was a great ass back then. It was a good kid. All right, producer Grace, Google Laura Byrne butt hole. Please put it on the pickup.

Britt, there is a TV show that I am obsessed with and it is coming back for season three. Yeah. Big Miracles. We talked about it quite a bit during season two and season one. Season one, actually, one of my really close friends was on there, Courtney, and she ended up with her miracle baby off the back of this TV show. And it is honestly one of the most incredibly beautiful feel-good shows that there is around fertility and the journey towards motherhood and parenthood.

Yeah, it has a look at IVF and people's journeys and it obviously highlights a lot of the really nice outcomes, which we're hyper aware that it doesn't always end up that way. But one of Australia's sweethearts is appearing on this season, Angie Kent, and we have her on the phone. Hi, Angie.

Hi, girls. Isn't it nice? Angie, we are used to seeing you on reality TVs, but I have to say when you made the announcement that you were going on Big Miracles, I was shocked. And I don't know, I mean, I was shooketh. I was shooketh. I think it's amazing that you're doing this. I'd love to know, like, what was it and how did it come about that you ended up being a participant on this show?

Look, I always have, I've always wanted to be a mom. I didn't know how that was going to show up for me, given the fact that I have that many chronic invisible illnesses, I'm single. So I was always kind of like, look, motherhood in the future, don't know what it's going to look like. So I will do IVF. I didn't know when that would happen. And this kind of weirdly popped up for me. And I was like, this is the universe. This is my time. And

I've done it. I've done my IVF treatment and it's all happening. It's so exciting to hear you say it. And I love that you're sharing the journey so that so many other women in your situation feel less alone and know it's okay. And they get an insight into how it happens. But you just mentioned you are single, but you have done embryos, which means there does have to be some sperm involved somewhere. Talk to us about how that process was. And was it someone that you knew? Did you go through like a random sperm donation?

Yeah, so I had to go through the whole selection of a donor, which I am the most indecisive person in the world. Like I couldn't even pick what I have for lunch. That's why I don't even know how I managed to do the bachelorette because picking some at the end was like the worst thing for me. This was even obviously harder than that because I had to pick somebody that is half of my child, even though they won't be there as a father figure. Yeah.

What does it feel like? They're half of my baby. It's huge. So it took me way longer than I'm sure production would have liked me to have paid, but that's just me.

Me. I took my sweet off time. I'm imagining you getting pushed along by the Bachelor production to just choose someone. But in this case, it's like, just choose some DNA. Come on. There's so much. Oh, my God. With this, though, how much information do you get? So when it comes to sperm donation, like I know there's different rules for different places. But in Australia, how much info do you get on the donor sperm on the guy who's contributed it?

Oh my God, so much, right? So I received, like the profiles were so in depth and so intense that you could go back to look at their grandmother and grandfather's health history. So you best believe I did. My side of the family has so many mental health and physical health issues. So I was just like going back, making sure we don't double up. I fully went off health, but I also went off how much I felt like

you could be my best mate and I would want to have a baby with you. I'm queer, so I date everybody. So it wasn't necessarily me looking at the profiles and going, oh, look, I want to date this dude. It was more like you could be my best mate and I would love to have a baby with you. That's kind of how I ended up having to go into it. And you don't get any aesthetics, do you, in terms of like you don't get pictures? Do you get baby pictures or is it just like – You do. Oh, you do. You do.

No, you get baby pictures. But you don't get – You don't get to know what they look like. Now, do you? The current ones? No, no, no. No way. Because, say, for example, if I pick someone here in Australia, I could run into him down at the street in Sydney or – Hey, baby daddy.

I'll be like, hey, thanks for the song. But no, I don't know what this person looks like now. I just know what they look like as a baby. And you also get like, you know, hair colour, eye colour, ethnicity, all of that. And then you can kind of, you know,

just envision what baby daddy is going to look like. Well, sperm donor, he's not a baby daddy because he may have nothing to do with the baby, but, you know, time will reveal all. I don't know if you're allowed to tell us this or if this is coming up on the episode, but is this something you are actively doing now in terms of you are implanting this embryo or are you freezing it and putting it on ice for like a later date? I feel like that's a watch this. That's a spoiler. All right. Yeah, exactly.

Is Angie pregnant yet or not? Okay, we'll leave that for the show. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Leave it for the show. But also I feel like I don't want to say that because if people spot me out and about and I'm having – no, I'm not pregnant right now. I'm just going to say that. Yeah, of course. If I go out now and I'm having a drink for my birthday, which is tomorrow, I don't know when this is coming out, so I'm going to say on Thursday, then they're going to be like, hang on a minute. Is this girl pregnant? She's having a –

sticky champagne. So no, I'm not pregnant right now. Angie, how long have you been thinking about this? Before you signed up to do the show, I know that you said opportunity kind of presented itself to you, but when you've spoken before, even to us, we've had you on Life Uncut, our podcast, talking about PCOS, talking about different health issues that you've experienced, which have created complications potentially for fertility. How long has this been something that has been

something that you wanted to do and something that you knew, okay, I may have issues with fertility coming up in the future and I've got to do something about the preservation of that now? That's a really good question. I have probably been thinking about this since I really started to take time to invest in my body and understanding what was going on internally. I suffered so much with all this pain and

You know, I had no idea where it was coming from. And then I found out I had, you know, endometriosis and PCOS and, you know, the list goes on. And I worked so closely with my women's health prac and a beautiful team I've cultivated. And he actually said to me, look, I think...

if you want to have a baby, which he knows that I do, let's look at IVF. Then it's almost as if I, as soon as I put that out there, I got the call. I don't know if it's because they've seen me be very vocal about my chronic invisible illnesses. And they were like, would you like IVF?

who document this, be the person that speaks about, you know, doing it solo with having all these chronic and visible health conditions. And I was like, oh my God, I'm a single mom. That stuff is expansive. And of course, I would love to share this experience. So it's all kind of,

like rolled in as this like delicious little package. And I just thought, I've got to do this now. And it's ready there for me for when I'm ready to implant one of my babies. It's so amazing. It's crazy to hear, isn't it? That it's like you're in the process. It's exciting. But have you thought about or when you choose your sperm,

Are there different categories in terms of like a category of sperm donors that want to be anonymous and never have any connection or anything to do with it? And then is there a category of like, hey, I'm a sperm donor, but also like would love to be involved if you want me to? And then how did you make that decision? Yeah, so there is. Some of them very much are like no, you know, no thanks, don't want anything to do, which is totally fine. And then others are more like, you know, if it's,

something that you would love, I would love to be involved, which I think that will happen for me once I navigate what it's like to be a mum on my own first and then down the track. I think I would like for my baby to have that option and I'm grateful enough that I did pick somebody that very, very much wants to be a part of

out of it. So yeah, it's really beautiful. Angie, how do you feel? I mean, obviously we saw so much of you on The Bachelor and like your quest for love and everything else that goes with that show. Bachelorette. The Bachelorette, of course. Sorry, I know. I just conflate the two. But

You know, obviously going through this process alone and having a baby on your own, raising a baby as a single mom will in some ways impact your dating life. How do you feel about that? Are you at a point where you're like, I'm going to put the dating life on hold? Like, how does that work for you now? Oh my gosh. You know what? I've kind of thought about it, but I think because this whole process has been so overwhelming and the fact that

I can even have the opportunity to, you know, create embryos. I...

It has kind of laid dormant, I guess, in the back of my brain. Imagine if I found someone and it's like, oh, hey, by the way, I'm three months pregnant. And they're like, oh, okay, off wall. But for me, dating, even though I did, yes, date 20 dudes at one point, dating isn't really high up for me. To be honest, it never has been. Again, when that opportunity was presented to me, I was like, science in the universe. Oh, my God, I'm supposed to date these dudes. This is it.

I'm more of that person. I don't really actively search for it. If I do fall in love one day again, great. If I don't, I feel like my baby is going to be the love of my life. I'm the love of my life. Well, I'm working on being the love of my life. Yeah. It's an ongoing thing. And if anybody else eventually kind of fits in with that,

my family that I've made, my modern family, then that again is just universal things. Oh, Angie, we're really just rooting for you. We really are. That was no pun intended, actually. We're really rooting for you. We are. We are. We are the rooting. Yeah, we can't wait to watch it. Big miracles if you're interested in watching the show as a whole or Angie's journey. It returns Wednesday at 9pm on Channel 9 and 9 Now. I know I'm going to be tuning in and good luck. Thanks, gal. Yeah, we're so excited for you, Angie.

See ya.