The Shift In Identity After Having A Baby. Uncut with Holly Nicholson
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This episode was recorded on Camaragal land.

Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. And we have such a special episode for you today. It feels like sitting down with an old friend. One of our own alumni. Yeah, it is. Within the Bachelor Illuminati. We did a call out quite a while ago and said, like, who do you guys want on the podcast? And one of the most requested names that came in was not Holly, but we couldn't get Michelle Obama. It is...

Bachelor's very own Holly Kingston. And I mean, we've talked about Holly and Jimmy, who's also sitting in the room hiding in the corner with their baby Lenny at the moment. But we've spoken about Holly so much over the years on the pod. We did Batch Uncut and we literally updated you all in real time on them falling in love. And now we get to update you all on a very different phase of life that Holly and Jimmy have found themselves in. And that is being brand spanking new parents.

Holly, welcome to the pod. Thank you. I do feel like a little bit of pressure and I feel like it's really, I think you stitched me up a bit because I feel like I've been on a bender for about two months. Yes.

I'm not the best version of myself. A baby bender. I wasn't drunk for two months just so everyone's aware. Could you imagine that's the headline? Holly on baby bender. To be fair though, like it is a wild bit of gear those first couple of months after having a baby. It is. But I think we were talking about it just before we, you know, started recording. But it's a fine line, isn't it? Because people really do. I do feel like I went in thinking it was going to be all doom and gloom and it

It has been so much fun. It actually has. I've been a bit tired, but it's been so much fun. It's so nice to hear because Laura and I have spoken about this like multiple times, never in detail, but always in passing comments on the podcast in private. But all you hear the narrative about childbirth and the first year of motherhood, not even the first year, but it's just how taxing it is, how exhausting it is, how you'll never sleep again, how your social life changes, your relationship changes. Everybody highlights the bad stuff. So it's really, I'm trying to ignore Lenny.

If anyone can hear, he's like moaning. We haven't left him on his own. Jimmy does have him. But it's really nice to hear straight off the bat as well. You say like it's been great and not as bad as everyone made it out to sound. Yeah. I mean, it's quite ironic timing as well as my child screaming in the background. But no, it has been. It's been so much fun. And I feel like I actually ran into Laura at an event when I was heavily pregnant. And I thought about what you said to me so much, which was no one tells you about how fun it is.

And that's something that I was underprepared for. I was very prepared for having no sleep and how much it's going to change your relationship with your husband and all of these things.

and you don't get prepared for how fun it is. Yeah, it's an interesting one because I remember when I had Marley and I was so ready for my life to be ruined because I'd been told so many times that it would never be the same. And don't get me wrong, like, yeah, of course, it changes your relationship and, you know, there's one hurdle after another. It's a forever changing beast being a parent. But I

I think that it was important for the conversations of women who have found becoming mothers really hard to have its time in the spotlight. I think it's so important for us to have those conversations so that when motherhood does feel really hard, you're not sitting in a silo going, am I the only one suffering? But I do think that that pendulum swung so far into one direction that for people who have actually had great experiences, or maybe even if you've had a traumatic moment

birth experience, but you don't feel ongoing trauma from it. It's as though we walk into motherhood with a lot of fear now that it's going to just absolutely fucking destroy your life. You're not going to have a career and you're not going to have any sort of sense of social life and your relationship is going to go down the drain. And not all of those things happen all at once for every single person, I think is important to show that side as well. Yeah. I think every day is so different. Obviously you're going to have your shit days and you do, but I've actually really thoroughly enjoyed

motherhood. There are certain things, the hardest thing for me was the hormones. No, like I feel like that's under talked about. I think that's something those first few weeks, it was genuinely like there was just black. I was just, Jimmy would be trying to talk to me and I'd be looking out the window and just like, what have I done? And that is, you don't really want to talk about that because it sounds like you're ungrateful for this journey. But

But one day that all just kind of lifted. And that was a really tough part. The other tough part is that you kind of feel like you've lost your old identity a little bit. You're now someone's mum and your body's changed everything, you know, so much has changed. And we didn't help that because we moved house within like two weeks of me giving birth. So I'm in this whole new place. I'm, you know, an hour away from where we used to be. And I'm, you know, I don't have to. Lactating all over yourself. Yeah, I'm lactating all over myself. But.

But yeah, there was definitely, I think now we're really in the fun stage. I feel like you start to kind of think, okay, I kind of know what I'm doing now, kind of. And yeah.

Things are getting a lot more funny, starting to smile at us and all of those things. It's starting to feel more rewarding at the first, you know, those first few weeks. You genuinely just, for me, I just felt like a vessel. I felt like I had udders and that was, you know. Well, I think that's essentially it, right? Like they're just in the nicest way possible. They're little blobs that just poo and need to eat and that's all they do and that's all you have to do all day. And I think it's really important what you just said and I definitely want to get into that a little bit later about how

That idea of the cloud that people feel or the weight that people feel in those first few weeks, like what have I done, that it's not necessarily a true reflection of how you feel. It's because we don't talk enough about the hormone change. But before we do get into that, we do want to kickstart with your accidentally unfiltered, your most embarrassing story. I actually...

Do you know what? You know when someone asks you about your most embarrassing moment and you just can't think about it because there's just been, I mean, it's not like I haven't had many, but I just can't think about it on the spot. Or it depends on the type of person because some people don't embarrass easily and you're like, I know that this would be embarrassing for someone, but like this is just a normal day in the life of Holly Kingston.

Here we are again. No, I think most recently I'm just really coming to terms with the lactating situation. I'm still kind of coming to terms with the fact that these are really, they're milking, you know. And I mean only probably, this is the most recent thing I can think of, the most embarrassing thing that's happened is I was at Chemist's Warehouse just getting some nappies. I think I was getting Jimmy some protein or something. That checks out. Yeah, exactly. You're looking good, Jimmy. Yeah.

Well done. For the guns. Yeah, I'm glad one of us is going to the gym. You look after yourself, though. No, and I was at the chemist's warehouse counter and there was just this like, it was just a teenage boy serving me and he just was looking at me like...

He was looking at the boobs. I've never had boobs in my life. So this is also a really exciting time for me in that sense. I mean, without a bra on, they don't look like, you know, they're not great. But with a bra. But with a bra, let me tell you, it does wonders. No, and he was serving me and I actually texted Jimmy at the time and I was like,

I think I've kind of got my mojo back a little bit because he was looking down at my boobs and I was like, Ooh, I've got boobs for the first time in my life. He's fully checking you out. Yeah. And I, I just was like, I'm killing it today. And it wasn't until about, I don't know, 10 minutes later that I looked down and I just had milk dripping, dripping from the nips. So that's my new life. And that's, I mean, it's just every day really, isn't it? You still have it. Yeah. Literally milk. You've got it all. Well,

Also, he was checking you out, but just not for the reason you thought. Shame, because you could have picked up some breast pads in there at the same time. Like, could have made it all around the shop. Double whammy. I was telling you about this before, but I had a situation where I was serving a customer at Tony May.

And we just had a new air con installed right above where I was standing. And I felt wet, like a drip on me. And I look at the customer and I go, oh, I'm so sorry. The air con is leaking. And I looked up at the air con and I'm like looking up trying to find this leak. And at the same time, I was full squirting on the customer. And she was too embarrassed to tell me that I, it was like, it was beyond just like lactating. It was when it does that full let down and just squirts out of my top. It's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. How did it?

Like a water gun. Very good for her skin though. Great. Very good for her skin. You should be grateful. Rub that on yourself. Exactly. Then did you charge her for it? No.

We're like, that's essentially a facial. That's terrible. Don't worry. I feel like any mum or new mum listening to this will be like, we've all been there. We've all had those moments. We put the questions out because you were so requested. We were like, hey, let's just really lean into this. What did you want to know from Holly? Like you guys have wanted this information and let's try and start in chronological order. But there were quite a lot of questions surrounding your life

before The Bachelor. Were you already into like interior styling and fashion styling? Because that's what people look at you for now. It's really become your mould of your Instagram presence. Yeah. I mean, so I was in fashion marketing for 10 years. So before, ironically, I was one of my main thing was influence outreach and basically...

Getting influencers to do campaigns and things like that. So I worked for a company called Retail Apparel Group. And to be completely honest, when I went on the show, Jimmy and I were both asked to be on The Bachelor. That would flex.

No, but when casting was basically saying to me, because I was like, I'm absolutely not doing it. It's just not something that I feel like is the right thing for me. And when casting reached out, they basically said, look, we're trialing something different this year. Basically, no one has any sort of form of Instagram following. He doesn't want to be an influencer. He's got a real job, all of that stuff. And I was like, okay, cool.

Great. That sounds good to me because I don't want to be in that whole scene and then, I mean, fast forward afterwards and it just kind of, it's just something that we started doing. It is something that... Just happens. Yeah, it happens. Jimmy and I had a big chat about it after the show had aired and we were like, well, if we are going to do this, what do, like, how do we do it? What do we want to do? Yeah.

And a big thing for us, we made a pledge to each other was if we are going to do this, we have to always make sure that if we're ever going to do brand partnerships, they always have to feel authentic to us. We have to know and love the product or we have to trial the product and genuinely love it. And that's something that for us over the years has been incredibly important. It's not something that we, I remember at the start, you know, getting. You get so many requests. Yeah, well, so many requests.

No. Mate, I did soup in COVID. I needed money and I was like, I'll do it. Nothing against soup. Sorry, take out. I did a soup promo whilst we're in COVID. I remember looking at Brit at that point and I was like, that's a real low point when you're pocking packet soup on Instagram. And I was like, sorry, I need to support my entire family in COVID. Yes, I'll sell the soup. I loved the soup, to be fair. It was authentic. It's authentic. I also do think that when you –

come from the side of life where you don't have an Instagram presence, you know, when you're not an influencer. I do think that we look at influencers with a dirty lens. I think that we can kind of have a perception around what we think that is. And then you, you know, doing a reality TV show like The Bachelor means you're thrust into a situation where you do have a following and people are paying attention to what it is that you're saying, whether that's a value or not a value. And you have a choice to choose what type of

business quote unquote you want to be and I think that I kind of had the same feeling around it like I didn't have a personal Instagram when I did The Bachelor I only had my business one Tony May

And then all of a sudden I had this random one called Lady and a Cat that had a lot of people following it. And I was like, well, what do I want to do with this? Like it would almost be a missed opportunity to say that you're going to do nothing with it, you know. So I think that your perception around it changes as you become more familiar with what it means to have that responsibility. Yeah, and I think for Jimmy and I as well, I mean, that first year was, I mean, you go from being on a reality show to then being in a new relationship.

And then you're basically working together. And we had no shortage of arguments. We decided we really wanted to focus on travel. He's a pilot and, you know, I really wanted to do all of the travel stuff. And so we were reaching out to, you know, all these different little Airbnbs. Like we'd love to come and, you know, and we'd bring the mics and we'd do all of these things. And we worked really, really hard. I mean, Jimmy learned how to fly the drone. He tried to teach me and I crushed it. So I don't touch that anymore. Yeah.

But we worked really hard, particularly with the travel staff, to make something of it. And that took about a year and a half and now we're doing a lot more of that and whatnot. But it does take work and you've got to be incredibly authentic. Otherwise people can see through it now. What was that? You said the first year of your life, you know, you go from being on the show to having a relationship to working together. What was that like for your relationship? Because I think everybody has a different experience when they get spat out of that bachelor machine and there's not a lot of...

There's not a lot of support. You kind of just go from being on this show to being like, cool, make it or break it, you know. And then, I mean, it's very evident that some couples thrive in that or it's galvanizing for them and other couples really just it's a pressure cooker that they can't survive. Yeah, we were very lucky that we had each other and we kind of we did thrive in that.

whole environment. And I think it was just because it felt a little bit like it was us against us against the world. It does feel like that. I mean, I still felt like me against the world, but it does feel like that. Yeah. And, you know, we put our foot in it a few times. I'm sure you could probably remember one of those times, you know, that's when it's really tricky is when you say something that, you know, gets taken out of context or something, and then it's genuinely, you feel like the world is against you and you have that opportunity to either go

well, we can do this together or we can, you know, let it break us. And we thankfully didn't let those things break us. You've maintained a really close friendship with Carly from that, from the season that you guys did. Is there anyone else from the season that you've been friends with or like, what was that experience like for you when you came out of the show and then still had to engage with some of the girls and, you know, yeah, it's a weird one. Yeah. Well, I mean, I didn't have a heap of friends on that show. I,

I've tried to think about it a few times. I think it's because I have a personality which I was probably considered to be a little bit blunt, a bit sarcastic with some of the girls. And I think there was also that element of...

I mean, it's just a very bizarre environment to make friends. Carly and I are still very close. It's actually her wedding in a few weeks and I am bridesmaid, which is really fun. And I'm also still really close with Tani and Lily. So I kind of came out. I was really lucky to come out with a couple of friends. I haven't spoken to the others yet.

It's one of those things where, and I always describe it as like if you win it, you come out with a partner and if you lose it, you come out with friends. And it's not very common to come out with both because at the end of the day you're in competition with women for affection and there's like this hierarchy system that starts to happen and it is just not an environment that is conducive for breeding friendships when you're pitted against each other at every point. It's funny because I came out with Friendly

with everyone, like not on bad terms with anyone, like you'll support each other on Instagram. But I didn't come out with any like proper friends from the show. Still not to this day do I have any. My two friends, closest friends from The Bachelor are you, Laura, from a different season and the stylist, Kim, who's become one of my best friends. Like they're the relationships that I ended up taking from The Bachelor because it is –

It's not a normal environment. And when you leave, sometimes when you're in it, you have these amazing connections. Like I had really good friends on the show, but then when you leave, you realise that maybe it's the pressure cooker environment that forces you to have similarities. And then when you leave, you're like, oh, it's not quite what it was in there. It's funny. I think back to those bunk beds. I don't know. I actually think it's hilarious because the bunk beds, they're all engraved by past seasons and some of the engravings were like, leave, get out. And you're like, where am I? I don't know.

No, I don't think I had anything of you. I remember, yeah, someone from the previous season, I remember reading hers and it was like love so-and-so and it was like get out right now while you can. And I was like, oh, my God, what have I done? It was probably me, wasn't it? It's hilarious. Yeah. But you would go to bed, these bunk beds all crammed in this room. And I remember even with Carly, she would come home from a date at like 11pm or something and she'd crawl up into the squeaky bunk bed on top of me and I'd be like, how was it? Did you give her a kiss?

And it's like how bizarre is that relationship? And you can either, yeah, I think it's like what you said, Britt, is you either realise you don't have that much in common and what you have in common is bitching about production, bitching about the situation or, you know, you're both dating the same guy and you talk about his kissing technique and then you get off the show and you're like actually we don't have that much in common. And thankfully for the girls that I was close with and still am close with is that we realised that we did have quite a lot in common, which was nice.

You guys obviously have baby Lenny now and we're like, as we've established, we're like in the early throes of what motherhood looks like and means to you. But I kind of want to take you back to when you were trying and also you spoke about a little bit on Instagram after you did share that you were pregnant, that it wasn't an easy road to pregnancy. What was that period like and from when you guys decided to start trying until when you actually found out that you're pregnant with Lenny? Yeah. Well, first of all, I turned into an absolute nutter in that

time. And I think it's really, it's really easy to get completely swept up in this whole thing because you spend your whole life trying not to get pregnant. And then when you start trying, you realize, hold on a second, it's actually...

It's actually not as easy as just putting the P in the V and it's all done. You can say penis and vagina on the podcast if you want. Put the P in the V and have a V. I feel so naughty. No, it was actually a really, really challenging time. I think that was probably one of the hardest times in my relationship with Jimmy because I think it's kind of like you –

You are going through the ovulation stage and then you have to wait two weeks or however long and you may get your period. And it's those two weeks that you're just riddled with anxiety and also with a bit of hope. And then...

It doesn't happen. And I was just a wreck for that whole week while I had my period. And then you start over again. And I'm also very cautious talking about this stuff because I know that so many people have it so much worse. And that's why I don't delve too much about it on social media, because I think it is really, you know, it can be quite triggering for people. It's a very sensitive topic.

But for us, I mean, we got to the stage where we were checking sperm and doing those procedures and whatnot. Ironically, it was actually Jimmy had gone to get his sperm checked the day before I did the pregnancy test, which I'm so glad he did that because that was quite a funny experience. Oh, yeah, it is. I've done it too.

it's just like, I can't remember what he said. He just made the whole situation so awkward. Like I think as we left, he said to the receptionist, like record timing or something. And I was like, why did you say that? Like, why do you feel the need to feel that silence? I offered to go in with Ben when Ben did it because we froze embryos. When Ben did it, they were like, Ben, it's your time coming. So he got up to get the cup and go into this little room. And I was following behind him. He's like, what are you doing? I was like, I don't know. Don't you want me in there? He's like, no. I was going to go in and

I was like, I don't know what I was going to do. I was like, don't you need me? He's like, get out. Have you seen the room though? Yes. With the TV? It's like so gross. It's so gross. Plastic chair and like a TV to watch porn. Yeah. And I think Jimmy actually went to play the TV, which was like one of those old school like thick TVs. And it was like resume from where you're at. It was like 17 minutes in and he was like, oh God. Okay. So he just got his phone out, I think. Yeah.

But yeah, it was a challenging time for us. And we fought a lot in that time, mainly because I was just not the best version of myself at all. I think you have this vision. I've always wanted to be a mum. And when you have this thought that maybe it might not happen or maybe you might have to go down a more difficult route to get there, I found it really, really hard. And Jimmy tried his best to understand where I was at whilst also coping with the fact that

He actually might not, you know, have, it might not be as easy for him either, you know, the journey to becoming a dad. So it was a trying time. But yeah, we're just very grateful, I think, that we didn't have to go down more of a difficult route to get there. We were lucky to get pregnant and conceive naturally. Yeah, and it's a hard space to talk about because

Hard and difficult is subjective because somebody else's journey is harder than yours. It doesn't mean yours wasn't hard. And I understand why it's difficult to talk about because no matter what happens to you or anyone listening, there will be someone else that has had it easier and there will always be someone else that has had it harder. And it's difficult because you don't want to take away from your experience and you don't want to add to someone else's, but it's still your story to tell. So it's still okay for you to say it wasn't the easiest thing for you.

Yeah, it's something that, and that's something that I kind of overthink a lot with social media, and I'm sure you're both quite similar as well, is you've just got to be so aware when it comes to sharing these things. Yeah, but I also think it's important to show the spectrum of how people feel along this journey. And there are a lot of women who maybe try naturally for a year and then they've created a narrative for themselves that it's like,

every month is a disappointment and a sadness. And like those women as well feel like, well, I can't talk about this because it's not as bad as someone who's currently going through IVF, but there's still a deep sense of like not having the thing that you want. And I mean, the only thing that I can compare it to from my perspective is

I've had two miscarriages. Both of those were as in I had a miscarriage before Marley and then I had a miscarriage before Lola. And I was very lucky to get pregnant quite quickly after each miscarriage. And I felt that having a successful pregnancy after each miscarriage kind of like voided my ability to be sad about the miscarriages because I was like, well, at least I got pregnant. Like negated the fact that it happened.

because you fell straight away. Totally. So it was like, I was like, well, I kind of want to tell this story, but also I need to make sure that people know that like, I know that other people's version of this is worse than mine. And I guess like there's space for all of those discussions in the spectrum of what it is to, you know, have a journey towards motherhood.

And everyone is very, very sensitive to the fact that there are women out there who have it incredibly, incredibly hard. And it's so important that those stories are shared. But I think every other story along that spectrum is equally as important to share because there are other people who are going through the exact same thing. Yeah. And I remember when we were trying, I remember thinking, well, I've only ever heard of like my close friends getting pregnant first try or having to go down the

IVF routes, having to, you know, try for many years before anything. I never, ever heard of the people in the middle. And, you know, when we went to go see a GP and speak about what our next options were, she said, look, like what's normal. I know, but generally it would be six to 12 months that people are trying. And that's kind of what we would consider normal. And I was like, even, I didn't even know that. I thought that, you know, most people got

pregnant first go or it's a full on journey. So you can't, a lot of people might not even know this, but with IVF, they won't even see you unless you've been trying for 12 months. Like 12 months is definitely the, okay, 12 months, we might start to think there's a problem. It really isn't as easy as people think, but we do hear the people that are like, oh my God, I fell first try. Like I wasn't even trying. And that's great. That's amazing. But it definitely isn't the normal thing. And I think people need to understand that to make themselves feel better. Also the fact that

You're an educated woman in your 30s trying for a baby and you weren't even aware of that. No, and I was so unaware of so many different things. I didn't even know that you could only get pregnant a few days in the month when we first started trying. I was like, I don't remember this. Did Jimmy tell you that just so you could have sex every day in the month? He's like, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere. The fertility window is three weeks. I had no idea. What was it like for you when you got that positive pregnancy test?

I was in shock and if I'm completely honest, I feel like I was in shock for many, many months and I think after trying for a while, I was so terrified something was going to happen. And at the time I was filming Luxury Escapes TV so I was on like cruise ships and things which is not where you want to be when you're in your first trimester and I was just...

kind of around the world. And I was actually in a really bad place mentally because I was hating first trimester, but mostly I was mentally not in a great place because I was terrified constantly that something was going to happen. And I was constantly going, you know, oh,

I don't know, did I eat something that may, you just, you go into all of these mindsets that just, I don't know, I was, I struggled a little bit. Actually, I struggled my whole pregnancy. I'm going to say it right here. I hated being pregnant. And I think two things can be true. I think you can be so grateful that you are having a baby and you're pregnant, but you can also not really enjoy the experience. And I didn't love being pregnant. What else did you not like about being pregnant? I

I felt quite self-conscious a lot. Like I felt like my body was changing so rapidly. And it was one of those things where all of a sudden, this doesn't happen in life where if you gain a few kilos, someone will be like, oh, you're looking, you know, you're looking a little on the curvier side. And the second that you become pregnant or you announce that you're pregnant, people feel it's actually completely okay to go wild.

wow, are you sure you're not having twins? I got that constantly. Or wow, you're looking very healthy. It's like, but it was said in a way that didn't seem like a compliment. I was really self-conscious and I think in this world as well, in the social media world, that's a little bit more exacerbated because you are getting those comments and those DMs quite frequently about your body. Yeah, like daily. I also just, I genuinely, the hormones did not, did not agree with me. I

I was just anxious a lot and I wasn't myself and I was causing a lot of arguments with Jimmy and I because I was just constantly angry about something. I was just an angry pregnant lady. I mean, I know that's kind of fast-forwarding a bit and I want to know about the birth and everything else, but you've mentioned hormones a couple of times and I think it's so important to talk about

that period afterwards. And so many women experience it where there isn't this instant gratitude or connection or happiness. There's this feeling of like,

what the fuck have we done? And it lifts, but it's very real feeling. And it kind of exists alongside lots of other feelings of motherhood at the same time. What was that like for you? That was without a doubt the worst. That first part of the fourth trimester was the worst part of this whole time for me with pregnancy, with trying to conceive, with everything. And I've never spoken about it because I truly feel like

such an element of guilt. I have everything I ever wanted. We moved into a beautiful new house. Jimmy was amazing. He was on paternity leave and he was there constantly and being an amazing father. And he was just so positive all the time, which also led to resentment because I was like, nothing's changed for you and everything's changed for me, which obviously things have changed for him. But I felt such an element of guilt, particularly in that first month, because genuinely I just felt like

I felt like I was looking out the window and I was like, I can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. And I think it was just a little bit of baby blues. And I think a lot of people experience this. But when I had the C-section and when he came out, I didn't feel this instant. Like they showed me the baby and I was like,

It's kind of like this moment where you're like, I know there was a baby in there that whole time, but that's a baby. Yeah. You know? Like what am I supposed to do with that? Yeah. And I remember when I was wheeled back up after the theatre and the midwife came in and she was this older midwife who had done this for 30 years and she was like, okay, were you guys all good? And Jimmy and I looked at each other and we were like, but.

oh, sorry, but what do we do now? And she was like, just keep doing what you're doing. And I remember her leaving the room like in slow motion and just being like. Don't go. Yeah. Please don't go. I was like, what do we do with this little thing? And.

Yeah, I think just it was probably almost at the four-week mark postpartum where all of a sudden I woke up and I was just like, wow, this is actually quite fun. And maybe we should start planning a holiday this year. And maybe, you know, I could start thinking about getting back into Pilates. And, like, all of a sudden I was thinking about the future. And before I was just every day just trying to – it sounds quite traumatic, but trying to survive. I was just going –

I feel like I should be so grateful for this perfect little baby and it led to guilt and

because everything was so great. And I was like, you're the problem. And we also had Lenny leading up to Christmas. So there were so many people wanting to come over and visit. And I said to Jimmy at one point, I think it was about three weeks in, and I said, I think I've lost my ability to talk to people. Yeah. I don't want any more people. Yeah. I don't know how to keep conversation and sustain conversation anymore because I felt like everyone was so excited for us.

And I wanted to be the life of the party and I wanted to be excited, but I just wasn't. You were dead inside. Yeah. I think that there will be so many mums who listen to this and maybe, you know, I don't know how many, like...

Every pregnancy and every birthing experience is different, but I think that there will be mums out there who listen to this and go, oh my God, I had that with my first or my second. Or, you know, I have a girlfriend at the moment who's just recently had a baby and she's going through the exact same thing. This like feeling as though the connection that you're expected to have just isn't there. And I think my pregnancy with Lola was such a surprise because I felt that instant connection with Marley. But Lola, I remember sitting on the side of the bed

like three days after she was born and staring at her thinking what the fuck have I done and I did not feel what I thought I was supposed to feel especially in comparison to first pregnancy

But it lifts, you know, and it changes. And like the way that you feel, especially in that like postpartum phase where your body is absolutely destroyed and then everyone's over and you're like having cups of tea. Like it's this surreal experience where you're like, I just ran a marathon and almost died. And now I'm sitting here fucking keeping this thing alive and talking to you about it and everything.

I'm so tired. I just want to go to bed. Yeah. There's nothing that you can compare it to. So it's as close to a near-death experience you're going to have. Yeah. I mean, I just remember, and I think the other thing with the C-section as well is you

You were so paralyzed from like the ribs down. And I remember it was actually so bizarre. They moved me over on the sheet. I remember thinking my legs were over to my left and then I looked up and my toes are up the top of the top of me and I was like, well, what is going on? Did you feel nothing? Yeah. And I remember when you're so physically unable to do anything, I

I remember the midwife putting Lenny on my chest. And first of all, she like put him straight on my nipple and said, oh, by the way, sorry, did you want to breastfeed? And I was like, that's probably something you should ask people, but it should put him straight on there. And I just remember going like, I could hardly move my arms. And it was just this moment where it was, wait, I have to parent now. I've just been through the biggest operation I was awake for of my life. And I

I now have to be a mum. How does that work? You know, and I think that it's just an interest. It's a very interesting start to becoming a parent. How did you end up with the C-section? Like what was your birth plan and then what, when, how, why did it change? I didn't have a birth plan. I think our obstetrician, of course, used aviation analogies when we came in. The whole time. Yeah, exactly. It was like, okay, can we drop the aviation analogies now? Yes.

And she said something to Jimmy like, look, you know. It's like being on a plane. Yeah. Well, basically she said, you know, I wouldn't go as a passenger. I wouldn't go in. I actually don't really remember it was something like this. I wasn't listening half the time, but it was like, you know, I wouldn't go into the cockpit and tell the pilot there's not going to be any turbulence and it's going to be a smooth flight and blah, blah, blah. The whole goal is to get those passengers on the ground safely. Not safely.

It's actually not a bad analogy to be fair. Yeah. And I think for me, I was just like, look, my main thing is I had like little things, you know, that I wanted to make sure, like I wanted to see if I could have music on and I wanted to, you know, there were just little things, but I didn't, I never thought

you know, I need to have a vaginal birth and I need this to, you know, feel satisfied or whatever. And Lenny was frank breech and I had marginal cord insertion. So the umbilical cord attached to the outside of the placenta. So it's just made it a bit more of a high risk pregnancy. But he was frank breech. It was up the right way around the whole pregnancy. And then the little monster decided, no, I actually want to turn upside down now. So he turned...

upside down and was feet first for anyone who doesn't know. Yeah. Like they're in a pike almost. So he's like, we never got any cute ultrasound photos of him because his feet were in front of his face the whole time. I was born like that with my legs over my head, but first. I think you told me about this and didn't, it was a vaginal birth, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. My poor mom. And also my hips to this day dislocate. Like I could

pop them out right now. You should see them on Dancing with the Stars. They pop out all the time. Because if you have a vaginal birth like that, as a baby, you should be put into a hip brace for like six months. Hip dysplasia. Yeah. So I just wasn't because back in the day, I didn't give a fuck that I was still smoking in the hospital. So like, oh,

Yeah, go. But yeah, so I can absolutely understand why you had a C-section. Yeah, I don't even think they would allow you to do a C-section. No, your mum's lived through that. Yeah. She's thriving. She's thriving. A little bit broken, but she's thriving. Yeah, so he was –

He was Frank Breach and basically I tried all the things to turn him. I think heaps of people on social media said, you know, try mock Sebastian. And I was like, oh, interesting. It's basically like I think you turn into, you just do things that you didn't think that you would do when you become pregnant. I love that you're prefacing it. What is it, Holly? It's just, it's just.

It's a little woo-woo, but basically, and I came home. Holly's like out in the field drinking urine. You're like, what are you doing? I saw it on social media. So basically you get, it looks like a joint. It's like, it looks like a, it looks like, and it smells like a joint. And I remember Jimmy and I, I'm looking at him now because I remember having the biggest fight with him because I came home and he started pissing himself laughing, being like, what are you going to do with that? Yeah. So basically you hold it above your pinky toe. Like I think it's like 10 centimeters above your pinky toe or something. And you hold it there for 20 minutes.

And it like burns the crap out of your toe. So I don't, like it's hot. It's hot on the toe. I thought you were going to say you hold it, you just put it down. I thought you were going to say you like smoked him out, like smoked Lenny out of the vagina. I was like, I'm going to gas him out. Yeah, basically. Yeah. So, and Jimmy was like, we're not doing that. This is stupid. He tried to hold it and he was like, this is ridiculous.

And I was like, we are doing it. We're going to turn this baby. And so I ended up sitting out on the balcony in the freezing cold with this like joint over my toe. And Jimmy's just looking at me like, what is like, what has she become? But.

Tried all the things, acupuncture, all of those things. And I was like, look, I'm sure there's a reason he's not turning. I just feel like you've got to kind of trust the process a little bit. So I agreed to do a C-section. I agreed. Like it wasn't a choice. And when he came out, actually, they said to Jimmy, do you want to see the placenta? And he was like, absolutely not. And they still came over with the dish. And like, he's like, oh, you know. And it was actually...

pretty much all calcified, which is, it was measuring a 43 week placenta and I was 38 weeks at the time. Oh, you're so lucky to have gotten them out. So it's basically, even in that, within a couple of hours, I was heading into preeclampsia, my placenta was shutting down. It was just, it wasn't going to be, I wasn't going to be able to have a vaginal birth anyway. And I think sometimes you've got to just go, I trust the process. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, like we spoke about a little bit and maybe it's even too early to know how things have shifted, but what do you think having a baby or how has having a baby changed the relationship between the two of you?

This is one of those things that I feel like I really, I was very anxious about because you hear so much about how much your relationship is going to change. And truthfully, I think our relationship has actually changed for the better. We've definitely had our moments. I think it's so fun seeing your partner become a parent, like how they just, how they change. And Jimmy has just been the most phenomenal dad. But we just...

We actually went for quite a few date nights when I was pregnant and we made this a real focus. We were like, we need to make sure to prioritise each other. Another aviation analogy. But Jimmy was always like, you've got to fit your oxygen mask before you fit the baby's. And it actually is a really good way to think about it because, you know, we make sure that we are happy first and foremost because that way we're going to be good parents. You know, whether that's Jimmy still going to the gym or him giving me some time to go to Pilates or, you know,

us booking holidays and booking trips and doing the things that we always did before. And there have definitely been times, I'm not going to lie, where I'm like, are we ever going to be like, you know, that hot and spicy? Like, is it, is the sex ever going to be the same as all? Because I remember the first time that we were intimate. It's so weird, isn't it? I was

It's so weird the first time. Like you're just kind of like, oh, I guess we'll get this out of the way. Yeah. But I remember I had a dummy in my ear and Lenny was like I was leaning on the bed and had the dummy in my ear and I was looking at his dirty nappy and I could hear Lenny just like having a great old time in the next room. He wasn't quite asleep. He was just stirring. And I was just like this is, you know, is it ever going to be back to what it was? And it's obviously still too early to tell. I'm sorry.

I think I'm eight weeks in. I've been saying Lenny's like six weeks old for a long time. You guys have done a fucking cracking job because like a lot of people even six, seven, eight weeks in, I know they kind of say you've got to wait until six weeks, but I would say most people or a lot of people can't get back into it at the six-week mark. Like that's like put in there from like a health and safety perspective, but then there's like your mental health around getting back into being intimate. That's a whole secondary thing. Well, there's also the C-section recovery too. Yeah, but that's why there's six weeks. That minor thing. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, and I said this to Jimmy the other day, I said, I think a big thing, we actually had this conversation. We said, is it ever going to be like what it was? And he, of course, yeah, of course it will. You know, you just need to give it some time. But I said to him, I said, a big thing for me is feeling attractive again and feeling sexy. And I don't, I do not feel like that at all at the moment. And that's just the reality. You know, I think

I've also built a career on beautiful clothes and styling things and doing whatnot. I can't wear the same clothes as I used to wear because my body is so different. But there are also so many new people now that are in the same phase that are following you and looking at you for advice of this phase. Do you know what I mean? Like there will always be people on the journey with you no matter where you are. Yeah, no, I agree. And I think it's just one of those things you've just got to come to terms with. This is the me at the moment.

And I don't think, yeah, I feel like I'm surrounded by a lot of people as well who bounce back really quickly. And I hate that term, bounce back. But, you know, I was at Pilates the other day and there's mirrors all around and I was just looking at my stomach and I had like this little pouch that I've never had before. And I was like,

It made me not even want to do the class because I felt so, I just didn't feel like myself anymore. And I think it's just about coming to terms with those things. Not everything is going to be influencers who come back from things very quickly and all of that. There is this stage where you've just got to try and deal with the new you. I also think that there's an evolution that happens like

I don't, and for me personally, like I never was the same version before. Like, I don't think you can go back. This idea of bouncing back to the person that you were before you had kids. There are things that change that never are the same. And for me, part of that was I never felt as though the clothes that I used to wear pre-pregnancy, pre-having a baby, were the same.

suited me or fit me right anymore. Like I had a complete change in the way that I, and it was, it was really hard for a while. Cause I was like, what do I wear now? What does look good on me? I don't know. And it took me a really long time to kind of figure out what my style was, but that changed. And I would say, I look at, I look, I have like plastic tubs worth of clothes that I look at every so often that I'm like, oh my God, I would have worn all, like it was all my clothes pre-pregnancy. I'll take them. And none of them.

And none of it would I ever dream of wearing now. And it's not that I don't necessarily fit it. It just doesn't feel right on me, if that makes sense. I think there's also an argument for the fact that you shouldn't go back to who you were because that's not what life is. Life is forever evolving and you are not who you were before. And that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Like,

We become a different person in a different part of life. I think the thing though, is that there's never another time where it happens so rapidly as it does with motherhood. You know, like we all age, we know that, but it is like overnight your physical identity shifts and that can be a really hard thing to process. I think for most people.

Yeah, there's no other thing in life really that every single part of you changes within those nine months. It's like, and that's what I really struggled with. It's like mentally you change, emotionally you change, your relationship changes, your body changes, and it's just about coming to terms with those things. And now I'm just going, I do still feel that loss of identity a little bit. And I also struggle with the, you know, all of a sudden everyone just wants to talk about themselves.

your baby and how everything, which is ironic because that's what we're talking about today. Well, can you sit down and talk about your baby? No, we're talking about you. Yeah. But I think, yeah, it's just going to be a bit of a journey of figuring out who the new me is. Yeah.

How do you go solo parenting now? Because Jimmy's job obviously as a pilot takes him away. What's the longest period you've been on your own for and how has it been so far? It's actually been all right because Jimmy took quite an extensive paternity leave. Well, he was home for about a month, but he did his ankle before. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, we've all seen that. That was interesting that time. Also, sorry, Lenny has the hiccups. It's the cutest thing. He's just over there going...

Yeah, it's actually been, it's a struggle. The main thing is that feeling of not being able to be hands-free. I think you just, it's a full-time job. It's not a full-time job, actually. It's 24 hours and it's really challenging. But to some degree, I actually quite enjoy having Jimmy gone. I realise the house is actually a lot easier to keep neat. And there are

There are things like he can't do a lot of the things that I can, you know, like I have to get up and feed him and if you are breastfeeding it is one of those things –

The men can kind of be a little bit useless for a little bit. Especially during this period. How do you deal with the unsolicited parenting advice that comes in? Because one of the joys of having a following is that there's people who are like interested in what you say, but one of the burdens is that people have a lot of things to say to you as well. Yeah. Look, that's definitely been one of the biggest hurdles for me. I think you've obviously got family and friends usually that will give you unsolicited advice. You'll have, you know, maybe your in-law saying, you know, you should do it in a certain way.

But when you have social media on top of that, it is incredibly daunting, particularly in those first few months because you don't know what you're doing and there is such an overconsumption of information.

just things on social media when it comes to pregnancy, when it comes to parenthood. Every second thing on my algorithm at the moment is, you know, this is my bath time routine with my three week old. And it's like, who has a bath time routine? I was like, I barely washed her when she was three weeks old. I think I washed her once in that time. But the advice also contradicts

constantly. So like you'll see one thing and then someone else will pop up and they're saying the exact opposite thing. Yeah. I think for me, it was when we got back from hospital, I think I realized I went on back onto social media way too soon. I think I almost had this idea that if I just keep going with social media, it's like, it won't become this burden in a couple of weeks time that I have to then update people on our life. And that there is that element.

But I remember five days after being in hospital, we got back and I remember posting this video of Jimmy and I thought it was just this really lovely video of him holding Lenny and he'd fallen asleep holding Lenny. And I was there obviously unpacking the hospital bag, watching him. And I just remember...

There was just this one comment that basically said, you shouldn't be holding him that way. There's the risk of SIDS. And it just blew up. Like I had hundreds of people arguing with each other, you know, you shouldn't talk to them. They're a new parent, like new parents and blah, blah, blah. And then all these other people going, well, no, she actually makes a solid point. You know, I had this traumatizing experience, which I don't want to repeat, but, and I'm reading all of these things five days into becoming a mom and just going, okay,

oh, my God, am I doing this right? Is my kid at risk of SIDS? Like and you start, I don't know, I was just a wreck and I said to Jimmy, I said, should I delete the post? And he was like, no, absolutely not. Stop reading the comments and just move on. Just let them sort it out for themselves and move on. The ridiculous thing is is that.

People on social media do love to give their advice based on a snapshot in time. And the thing is, is from that photo, people don't have the context that you're standing there. I mean, the context is in the photo. You're standing there taking the photo. So although one person's asleep, the other parent is right there. And I think that people make a lot of assumptions around

a second and then therefore like give their advice. And it's the same when you talk about being a pregnant woman and the unsolicited like comments on your body when you're a new parent or any parent. I don't think you have to just be a new parent. It's like you are open slather for people telling you that you're not doing it right or that you should do something differently. And often that advice comes from women. I would say it comes from like older women who have maybe the second generation who think that the way that they did it was the right way of doing it.

Yeah, and that's the irony as well. I think through the whole time that Jimmy and I have been doing the social media thing,

Jimmy very rarely cops anything. It seems to be always women against women, which really, really sucks. But I think like, yeah, I don't know. I just feel like it comes naturally, I think, to some people as well. Even for me the other day, I saw someone going like, pack my hospital bag with me. And I remember thinking in my head, oh, she's not going to use that. And I was like, I just did the thing. I did the thing where it's like, you don't need that. This is how you do it. Every child is different.

so different. I did the same thing recently. An influencer was posting all the cute baby outfits they bought for their newborn and I was like, haha, buttons, you're never going to use any of those. Fucking cute. But I bet you all of those have tags on when that baby's four months old. Yeah, I know, right? But also people have to learn for themselves and there is no, nothing good comes from telling someone that the thing they're excited about isn't going to happen.

because maybe they will be that parent who has the energy or the capacity to put the buttons on their kid. Maybe they will be. Good for them. Like I found that Bon Zippies were like my fucking one and only. My kid would go to like, we'd go to events and they'd be wearing Bon Zippies.

I've never seen your kid in a button in their fives. Literally. Marley and Lola, until they were literally one years old, just lived in sleep suits because I was like, it's all I have the capacity for. Yeah. I mean, to be fair, Lenny is dressed to impress today. He's got overalls on today. Oh, he's looking so good. Holly, it was my first thought when I saw Lenny. I was like, wow, that's ambitious. Yeah, exactly. Overalls. Well, he was making his big bust.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I can only imagine how hard that period is. And you guys are so in the thick of it. Like, I mean, eight weeks, six weeks, who knows how old Lenny is, but like 12 months. Yeah.

But it really is. It's like this is ground zero for like everyone critiquing how you're doing it. But I mean anyone who can get up, get themselves dressed and come in to do a podcast record with their husband and their baby is doing a fucking amazing job. And I also, I think we scooted over it, but I do just want to say because we should have commented on it, but you just saying you went to a Pilates class and looked and saw your pouch and you were really down about it. Can I just say?

Pouch. That's what you called it. You looked down and saw a pouch. Did I say that? I probably did. Well, maybe I called it a pouch. Maybe you said a pocket. Is it a pouch? But that's what women call it, right? Because you get this pouch that stays. A little bum bag. Bum bag. But can I just say, firstly, you look incredible. You're doing incredibly well. There is no normal. There is no bounce back. There is no normal recovery for any woman ever.

Eight weeks in, your hormones aren't even back to normal. So even for you to look at yourself in another month, you'll feel differently and that's going to be forever evolving. So I just felt like we should have sat in that for a second because whilst you don't feel quote unquote sexy, you're fucking hot. Like I'm looking at you now and you're a fire flame. You are. I feel like that's the nicest you've ever been to me. It's like I'm quite good. Oh, my God.

It's a hard one, isn't it? When like the benchmark on social media is hot pregnancies. I mean, there's lots, like there's the full spectrum of it. But like I even recently, I only use this as an example because she is so beautiful and like being pregnant, she's like literally the icon of fitness. Steph Claire Smith, like I was watching her kind of like, you know, she's beautiful.

quite heavily pregnant now and she just looks amazing. Yeah, pregnancy suits her. And, like, you know, she's also – her brand is fitness. So, like, she's always going to be, like, the fittest version of a pregnant person. And I looked at it recently and I was like, oh, I just –

I just so hardcore can't relate because I'm so sick when I'm pregnant that I can't exercise. So for me, it's like, I look at people who are able to maintain that part of their life and who go to Pilates in first trimester and they maintain their shape. And I'm like, I am literally a dead person. Yeah. Can't get off the couch. Can't stop vomiting. Yeah. Pregnancy doesn't love you. It doesn't love me. And your friend that's

You don't thrive at the start. You come into your own. Yeah, I figure it out midway. But it's a rough start. But also, like, by then, I've just done 17 weeks of literally nothing. So not only am I behind the eight ball and trying to exercise again, I'm also –

midway pregnant. Like it's so hard. So, you know, I understand this like reference point that we have sometimes for what pregnancy looks like and it's just so different for every single person. I do think though I just I fail to believe that there aren't women who are gassy and they've got swollen hands and

And everything goes. Like the amount of symptoms that you have. I remember asking ChatGPT the whole time I was pregnant, like, is this symptom normal? I've got a blocked nose. Is this symptom normal? It's like every symptom. What was the weirdest thing that happened to you? God. Like did you grow hair somewhere you shouldn't have? Well, yeah. If you are a laser person, like I've had laser for 12 years already.

On the V. On the Vag, where the P goes. Yeah. And it just all of a sudden it started growing back in these patchy ways. And I remember as well for the C-section, I was like, I need to, you know, sort this out. I can't see it, but I need to figure it out. Which is so fascinating.

funny because they're literally cutting you open to pull a baby out and you're like, oh, I better sleep. I know. You got to make sure that it's all in order. And I remember looking at it. Do you know like the Deadpool Wolverine dog that's like, it's got like all the tufts of hair. I remember when my stomach started to go down and I could see my vagina again. I was like, what? Oh,

Did I do? It was just like, there's just like, it was just, yeah, it was not good. Yeah, so the hair situation, that was, and I think as well, just this isn't a funny one, but it was just the hands. Like everything just started blowing up. I was like Viola Beauregard from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory when she turns into the giant blueberry. Woo!

I remember going to the gym for the last time and I just went in my third trimester and I was like, nah, I picked up some weights and I couldn't actually even clasp the weights. And I started just, I was so pregnant and Jimmy was sitting next to me and I just was just crying with these dumbbells in my hand. He was like, I think we need to go. I think it's time. Yeah. So yeah, it all just happens. It really does. Didn't something weird, didn't you grow chest hair or something? I'm going to make that up. No, I didn't grow chest hair. Was

Wasn't there some weird symptom you had? I got a really fat vagina. That's it, fat vagina. Like my fucking vulva. I was like, are we kidding? I was like, I can't even wear a fucking swimsuit. I look like I'm packing. Like it was so confusing. It looks like you're smuggling. And then it deflated afterwards. But I just like the third trimester had the fattest vulva that you've ever seen. Wait, which part is the vulva again? The whole outside part. The whole outside. Everything. Both labias, everything that's like.

on the outside rather than like. Except mine hasn't changed. Mine is still the same as when I was pregnant. Good for you. Well, no, it's just my whole vagina has actually changed. I don't know if this is a thing. Like my labia have sucked in. Really? Most people go out. Well, but I didn't have to push. I didn't push the thing out. So they still suck up. They're waiting. They're waiting.

You got a vagina tuck. You got like a reconstruction. I got varicose veins as well. Like that was another fun symptom that just came out of nowhere. I still have them. Haven't done anything about them. But like so many things. Like my hair stopped falling out and then it fell out in tufts afterwards. Like it just...

It really does do a fucking doozy on your body. And so it's no wonder that for those like few weeks afterwards, or longer for some people, your body's like, what just happened? Well, yeah, it's fair, isn't it? It's like when you're really nutted out, you're like, yeah, this checks out. Yeah. I mean, we've spoken a lot about like the hard bits, but what's been like your favourite thing so far? Oh, I mean, I went into this being like I want to make sure that I don't talk about the doom and gloom and I hope that I haven't touched on that too much. I just want to make sure that everyone knows that this has been something

the most incredible thing I have ever done in my life. It definitely comes with its lows, but just seeing him now, we are at such a fun age where it's like he's now starting to respond. He's no longer just this potato who just, you know, poos on you and vomits on you. He is now like, he smiles at us. Like I'll go to get him out of his little bassinet in the morning and he's just like smiling at me. And I think just seeing how much they change every day. Jimmy and I have like,

Like these just really nice mornings together. They're just slow mornings. We get up and we just lie in bed with a coffee and we just have the nicest, you know, Jimmy will sing to him. Yeah, I mean he doesn't have the greatest voice but it's just all a really exciting time seeing him grow.

Yeah, so beautiful, honey. Holly, thank you so much for coming in and sharing your story. You actually are such a dreamboat. You've always been such a giving and kind and generous person. You've not changed an ounce since we saw you on The Bachelor for the whole way. And I think that that is a really...

We don't see it often. It's a really rare thing to be truly who you are and authentic from go to woe. Like it's been like, what, six, seven years now? No, no, it's been like, yeah, maybe four. Seven for me. It's been a while. Seven. Fuck, fuck. Are you seven now?

Yeah, I was 30 and I'm turning 38 this year. So I'm eight years. Yeah, I'm nearly eight years. You're going on nine years. Wow. Well, it's on to us. Yeah. So maybe it is on to anything. But thank you so much for being so generous with sharing your story with us today. Thanks, guys. I'm not good with compliments, but thank you. Let's end it there.