Amad's 12 Minute Miracle | Set-piece Struggles Continue! | Manchester is RED
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Hello and welcome to the Manchester is Red podcast. My name is Stephen Ralston. And just before we jump into this episode, we're going to have a quick word from our sponsors, NordVPN, the fastest VPN in the world and an absolute essential travelling companion. You can use NordVPN on 10 devices with just one account, easily switching your virtual location to access apps and websites in other countries.

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If you're at home, use it to see if you can save money with products that might be cheaper in another region. Go to nodevpm.com slash Manchester to get four extra months on the two-year plan. The link is also in the podcast description below. And now that's over and done with. I'm on this episode with Samuel Lockhurst. We were both at United's game on Thursday evening against Southampton in the Premier League.

Samuel wanted quite a straightforward evening quite a simple night United had the wind in their sails after two good results away from home against Liverpool and Arsenal and it looked like a penalty kick against Southampton but you always expect the unexpected with Manchester United and that's exactly what happened it was an awful performance for most of the game they looked on course to have an absolute shocking defeat against the league's worst side but Ahmad the

delivered in the final 10 minutes and turned the game on its head. Can you make much sense of that performance and try to do that in this opening bit?

I will try. We wanted a stress-free night and we got a stressful night. And it would have been great for the United supporters walking out the stadium, floating out the stadium after winning a game like that. But if you're one of the players, you should probably have lost a bit of sleep last night and not just through the adrenaline. That performance should have kept them up for a little bit longer because...

For 80 minutes, it was utterly, utterly unacceptable. It was humiliating. They were around 10 minutes away from possibly their worst result in the Premier League era. And I mean, Simon Peach, of course, who's a Southampton fan, he's away on his very long honeymoon. I mean, I think Jim Ratcliffe spends more days in England than Simon Peach does in a year. How often he's off on holiday in other countries is

But he was messaging me a little bit during it and he predicted that Southampton would collapse. He said they were really mentally flaky. And I said, well, you've seen United enough this season. And of course, there was that collapse and United can be indebted to not just our madman, Southampton's feebleness, but also Joshua Xerxe and Christian Eriksen. Because the big problem with that performance from United was that they panicked early in the second half, possibly midway through the second half,

Most people turned up expecting United to win. And so, of course, when they don't go 1-0 up, when they snatch it, two very good opportunities to go 1-0 up. And then Southampton actually start to cause more problems for United's goalkeeper than United were causing for Aaron Ramsdale up the other end. Anxiety creeps in and people start to feel uneasy. You could hear it in the stands. There was this uneasiness about United's performance and that filtered through to the players. And when the captain said,

is positionally indisciplined and is running around like headless chicken with only half an hour on the clock. You know United have got a problem. That led to reckless decision-making. They were rash. They ended the half with Ahmad reduced to essentially taking a dive to try and win a penalty. United should have had a penalty earlier, but it was moot. They shouldn't require the...

the assistance or the competence, I should say, of a referee to give them a penalty kick against the worst team in the Premier League in 17 years. And Southampton may eventually be remembered as the worst team in the Premier League era. And so it was that first half felt like a new low. It was, they were 1-0 down, conceding to a set-piece again. That's 10 goals they've conceded from set-pieces this season. And

And really, the strange thing is, as soon as they made it 1-1, I think, I don't know about you, but I thought they would win it at that point because Southampton had managed to hang on for that long. But there's a reason why at kick-off, they had six points and they've still got six points. They had a minus 32 goal difference as well. And it did, of course, take some quality off the bench to change that game. And that was pretty fitting in that Xerxe and Eriksen

operate at a different pace but it did need that last night they needed players to actually bring the tempo down to ensure that it wasn't quite as frantic and of course Southampton's front three who were so problematic they had to make changes there and Tyler Dibling came off Suleymano I think came off as well and he'd

It had Lenny Yoro spread on his toast that he gorged on all night. And Southampton will probably look back and think that they could easily have gone 2-0 up at one point in that game. But bringing the players on who were patient and were prudent with the ball and just calmed things down, it did unite to the power of good. And it's no coincidence that the first goal, it comes from Xerxe feeding Ahmad. And the second goal, it's Christian Eriksen conjuring up an ingenious assist.

I was scratching my head for most of that game, thinking, where has this come from? But we should have expected it, really. And I thought back to Bruno Fernandes' quotes after the draw against Liverpool at Anfield, and he was asked about the upcoming games. And he said, I'm actually more worried about Southampton than I am against Arsenal, because he alluded to the

The player's always given the 100% in these big games on the biggest occasions, but then struggling against sides that are expected to win. And Ruben Ambrim discussed that in his press conference before the match as well. This kind of mentality flow, Samuel, it seemed to have existed for a good few years now, where United can turn up in the biggest games and might get a result against a really top side. And then they come against these sides who are the bottom of the Premier League at home in this struggle. That's down to mentality, isn't it? Surely.

It is, but two seasons ago, I think their record against the bottom half teams was pretty perfect under Eric Ten Hag. The problem was they couldn't win any of the top half sides. Their away record in those games was dreadful. I think it was between October 2021 and December 2021.

2024, they didn't beat any of the other big, old big six, if you want to call them that. But even that deteriorated towards the end of Ten Hag's time, didn't it? Obviously, his first season was excellent in that regard and they were brushing aside those teams, but that started to worsen towards the end of Ten Hag's reign.

Yeah, but they were just crap last season. It wasn't like they were good against big teams and good against small teams. City did the double against them. They did get themselves up for it against Liverpool, but Arsenal did the double against them as well. Tottenham took four points off them. Chelsea, who were pretty diabolical for most of last season, beat them having entered out of time at Stamford Bridge last

3-2 down and they end up winning it 4-3 so United were just they were dire last season they've been worse this season and any team that goes to Old Trafford they don't have an inferiority complex and Southampton didn't need reminding of that the past three teams who rocked up Old Trafford had all won

So they'd have taken confidence from that. And ultimately, that game last night at kick-off, it was between two teams in the bottom six. And I know there's quite a big points deficit between them, as there are with most teams in Southampton.

But Southampton also, at St Mary's back in September, they were the better side in the first 30 minutes and they had a penalty to go 1-0 up, didn't take it. And that's what cost them because then United exerted a bit of ruthlessness and scored two goals within 10 minutes and that pretty much killed the game.

he's getting quite a lot of name checks in this podcast, on this podcast, but Simon Peach has been adamant that Southampton are actually quite a good football team. They're just, you know, absolutely feeble and easily gettable and they can see a lot of goals. And, um,

I wasn't really having it, but they have got some players who I think will have Premier League careers next season. They'll be in the Premier League next season. I mean, Dibling is the one who springs to mind. He was terrific against United at St Mary's. But still, when you look at that Southampton team last night, you think, well...

there's no, there are absolutely no excuses here for United. And normally we try to cover all bases and, you know, offer a little context or a caveat here and there. But I mean, you were naive last month when you said, oh, you know, United should be beating Bournemouth at home. And obviously I had to correct you. And unfortunately for me, I was- No, I still believe that for all of those games. I'll always believe that because of the stature of the club. I know it doesn't work like that anymore. And look,

at the last 12 years. I know there's evidence, there's a massive bank of evidence, but I still believe it. It might be arrogance that, but they should be beating these sides. It's not that hard if you're a proper club and you're well run. But they're not. But last night absolutely was a game where if you'd said, they should be winning this, I'd have said, Stephen, you're right, they should be winning this. And they did, but they won it in a way that Amram was clearly, clearly...

uncomfortable with when he spoke to us afterwards. He said that he'd spoken to Stephen Ratcliffe in the director's lounge, which is why he was a lot later coming in for the press conference, I believe. And he said that, you know, the result helped the conversation, but it wasn't a good performance and it wasn't a good performance. There were about

I mean, it was such a mad game that Ahmad was really poor until he scored a 12 minute hat trick. That's the sentence that encapsulate the madness of it. Last night, he was rubbish until he scored a 12 minute hat trick. But he's at least they've got a gem with him. At least they've got him tied down on a new contract.

Brighton's only a couple of days away already. Brighton are a much more capable and better side than United. Sorry, United and Southampton, I should say. And of course, we'll come on to them later on. But that's another game where the majority of United fans will be turning up thinking,

you know, are we going to be seeing another defeat again? That's the mindset they've got. Any team goes to Old Trafford these days and has a chance.

Yep, there's more uncertainty. Amrim said after the Anfield game, going back to that, he said it upset him, that performance, because he didn't know where that level of performance had been. So if he was upset after that game, he was definitely going to be upset on Thursday evening. Let's touch a bit more on Ahmad then. You've just spoken about him there. The game just turned on its head. And I agree with you. When they scored that equaliser, I did think they'd go on to win it. It felt inevitable. Ahmad grabbed the ball. He threw

threw his hands up in the air and urged the crowd to get behind the team and the noise just went up, didn't it, in Old Trafford. And then he just scores a hat-trick. The pass from Eriksen for that goal, the second one, was just superb, wasn't it? The little chip over the top and that's finished brilliantly. He's now the team's top goalscorer this season. He's got nine goals and seven assists.

He was all smiles in the mix zone when I spoke to him after the game. He's just having such an outstanding campaign, isn't he, Samuel? And when you think about the last year and last season, I'm more thinking at the beginning of last season, he was obviously injured, missed the first six months, and then he had a rough time of it, wasn't really getting a kick, started to blossom a bit in the spring. If you think back even to the Fenerbahce game recently, and Ten Hag was playing Masraoui there in a number 10 role over Ahmad,

he's had to come through a lot hasn't he and he's now looking well he is United's best player he has been this season yeah I think that he will that's a Matt Busby statue that primarily resides in Bruno Fernandes' house in recent years that will be on display in Ahmad's home come the summer alongside his magical from the game yeah

Yeah, and a couple of Man of the Match awards. So I think if he wants to get extension permission, he should probably get in there pretty quickly because I think he might need it the way he's playing to house all those accolades. But it's become difficult to write about him because he's so good. And what more can you say about him? That was the first hat-trick by a United player last night since Cristiano Ronaldo against Norwich nearly three years ago.

It's the second, I mean, United's last two wins in the Premier League. They've been courtesy of Ahmad. I mean, he was responsible for the penalty and the winner against City. He got all three goals last night. As you said, he's their top scorer now with nine goals. But ever since he recovered from that injury, it was a knee injury, wasn't it, against Arsenal?

in pre-season in 2023, he's just got better and better and better, starting out with substitute appearances, cameos when United were either drawing or losing, taking his chance when he got that overdue first meaningful start in the Premier League, scoring on a few days later against Newcastle. And I know we're going back to last season, but there was a reasonable debate that he should be starting in the FA Cup final again.

because he'd had such a positive few games after Ten Hag finally actually gave him a chance. And OK, there was that period earlier in the season where he was out in the cold for a little bit and he wasn't starting towards the end of Ten Hag's time at United. But he had a very good pre-season. He was pretty decent at the start of the season, his general play. And he's really benefited from, firstly,

having a couple of starts under Ruud van Nistelrooy when he did really well against PAOK and Leicester City. And under Amrim, he's just gone up, not to a new level, I think he's gone up a couple of levels. And the challenge is to keep on going up, keep on rising. And hopefully, if United develop into...

into a world-class forward because on current form he's one of the best players in the Premier League. It's rare that you say that about a player who's playing for a team that are stuck in the bottom half of the table but he's had profound impacts in some extremely big games for United of late and he's a player that they just cannot do without at the moment because he scores goals, because he creates goals, he always strives to make something happen. It's a very good knack for a player when you're

They're playing badly and yet they still end up scoring a hat-trick and the manner in which he took all three goals. I mean, even the third goal, he has to anticipate the mistake by Harwood-Bellis. He has to do the pressing in the 94th minute to give him the tap-in. So there's something laudable about that.

The second goal is a really, really good finish. At first, I thought it was purely just all about the assist, but it's still a hell of a strike in those 90th minute. There's a hell of a lot of pressure on him there. It's a potential one shot at winning the game. And of course, with the first goal, there's that perseverance where the first shot is blocked with his left foot. So the second shot, he goes with his right foot.

There's so much that's endearing about him. And I think we've been banging the drum for him for quite some time when he was doing pieces about him or stories about him when he was on loan at Sunderland, where there was others. He wasn't even an afterthought. He was just an irrelevance. But it's been interesting following his career. From the moment I was told that, oh, United are quite interested in signing this guy called Ahmad Traore from Atalanta who's meant to be good.

And then he was Ahmad Diallo, then he was just Ahmad. And last night, it was the first time that United fans chanted his name. It was oh, Ahmad Diallo, wasn't it? It was to Seven Nations Army. I know he's requested that the Diallo be dropped, but I think he'd have made an exception last night on what was one of his greatest nights so far with United.

I just had to dig out the game from last year to confirm what I remembered. But if you cast your mind back to the 28th of January, 2024, against Newport County in the FA Cup, United won 4-2, obviously. Omari Fawcett came onto the pitch that day and Ahmad was an unused substitute almost a year later. And look where he is now and look where Fawcett is. It was an interesting decision from Ten Hag to really overlook Ahmad for so long. And it just looks worse, doesn't it, with time? Yeah.

Let's come on to Joshua Xerxe. We'll have to give him a really positive mention. We've given Xerxe some stick on this podcast this season because he hasn't looked up to that level and he is clearly not a prolific goal scorer. But we've always said his build-up play is fantastic. He kind of brings his teammates into play, picks the right passes, and he has a cool head. And as you said in your first answer, Samuel,

everyone on that pitch in red lost their heads for a moment in that game, didn't they? And when Eriksen came on and when Xerxe came on, they really started to look a better side. Xerxe, he really improved United and he played a big part in the end of that game. Obviously, Ahmad would take the headlines, but Xerxe was probably the second best performer on the night by quite far. And he came on from the bench for Rasmus Hoyland, who we'll also come on to in a second because he struggled again. It was a highly creditable performance,

Given that his previous performance there ended after 33 minutes with thousands heckling him as he was substituted and then a few more booing him as he went down the tunnel. I know there were some supporters that also offered him applause that night to try and counter what they felt was an unbecoming reaction. It was certainly unpleasant. I did feel sorry for him. We have to analyse him objectively. It didn't go well for him that night. It wasn't the right team that Amarin picked.

I'm not going to waver. I'm not going to suddenly say he's actually inspired signing. Clearly, United should not have signed him in the summer. They were after a strike.

to ease the burden on Hoyland and they've not really signed a striker in Xerxe as we've discussed before he is clearly far more comfortable operating in a deeper role almost as like a something in between a number 9 and a number 10 well he's said it himself hasn't he he says he describes it sounds like woke nonsense but he's described himself as a 9.5 you use that so often don't you Sean Dyche isn't even a manager at the moment you've only heard me say it recently last few weeks

Oh, no, I've heard it a lot more than that. But Xerxe, without him, they would not have won that game last night because his equanimity was vital in a game where United didn't just lose their heads for a moment. They lost their heads for a long, long time. They were snatching at chances. There was rash decision-making. Their positioning was poor. They left Lenny Oro isolated with no cover.

They were getting so many things wrong and they needed someone just to calm it down, change the tempo. And Ericsson, of course, did that. He was about to come on at 1-0 to Southampton. He came on at 1-1. So obviously that does change the dynamic quite drastically where United are suddenly on the hunt for a winner rather than an equaliser.

But you still need that deafness, that poise and just that experience, that nous that Ericsson can bring. And again, I'm not going to say, oh, Christian Ericsson should definitely get a new contract in the summer. I don't. I think they should release him. But while you've got him, make the most of him. And he should have come on earlier.

Last night, I tweeted and he was pretty much the only valid attacking option to turn to. Of course, Maguire went on with him and I think we were braced for Maguire going up front as the battering ram. And in the end, he wasn't needed because United did the job thanks to Xerxe, Eriksen and Ahmad. But you need different players of different skill sets for different situations.

different scenarios and that was a classic case for it last night and Amrim eventually did read it that way. I mean I thought Sirksy should have started, then I thought he should have come on at half-time, we didn't have much longer to wait, it was the 53rd minute when he came on but he made a huge difference because United were struggling to keep the ball, they seemed utterly incapable of constructing attacks in the first half and Amrim has touched on, not even touched upon that, he's spoken about it at

at length this week in those press conferences he's had in various sections. And yeah, he's pretty much said that this team was constructed for counterattacks to score on transitions. And he said that they have players who are effective at that. And he named Rashford and Garnaccio, which is potentially telling given that one wants out and the other one is the subject of pretty intense interest this month.

And he, of course, as inherited players who a lot of them do jar with the system that he wants to play. So he's having to operate via that trial and error and work things out and learn on the job.

really. But with Xerxe, as I said, I don't think anybody's pretending that he's all of a sudden the answer to all United's ills, but he's had a pretty remarkable two and a half weeks since that very public humiliation against Newcastle. And he's shown immense character to come back from it. Just about to say that. He really has, hasn't he? He's shown so much personality to kind of come through that.

He has. And he's got a pretty good sounding board in that dressing room if he wants to use him in Maguire, because certainly in my lifetime, I can't remember two United players being barracked as much as those two have. And obviously they've come in successive seasons as well.

But the turning point for Xerxe was when he warmed up at Anfield and United fans were chanting his name. And of course, it wasn't a clean enough or a polished pass for Maguire that day. But I maintain he made the right decision in squaring it.

to Maguire for that potential match winning moment to Anfield. He did the business at Arsenal. He played well before the penalty shootout. He won the penalty shootout and he helped them win the game last night as well. And it's easy to forget. He actually did quite well when he came on the Etihad. He took the game. He literally took the game away from City with his held up play and carrying the ball into their third in the last knockings of the game. So he's clearly a,

with pretty good technical prowess. I think he'd be a pretty good five-a-side player. You could envisage him running the shown five-a-side. Well, I'd hope so. Not necessarily busting a gut to get up front and score goals. He might not score many goals in it, but you could see him certainly dictating play because he's got that proficiency on the ball and he's got a nice depth of touch and he's good at deceiving defenders, as you saw with William Saliba at the weekend.

And I really hope for his sake that he kicks on from here. I'd love to be proven wrong. As we've said before, there's nothing wrong in our industry with being proven wrong. Certainly with United players, we could do with it happening more often because if that was the case, they'd be a much more successful side. My five-a-side claim to fame is that I once nutmegged James Tavernier, who's of course went on to have a very good career. Oh, yeah. I probably mentioned that one before, haven't I? Yeah.

No, I've not. Have you not heard that one before? Yeah. Let's end this part by talking about Rasmus Hoyle and Samuel. It feels like the elephant in the room. He got the nod to start. I haven't seen the stats yet. I've just come on, obviously, but I should probably dig them out to see how many duels he actually won because off the top of my head, it feels like he didn't win any the whole night. Yeah.

yeah it felt like that didn't it watching the game he was just so poor he was really struggling to make it stick and supporters are becoming a bit impatient now because he's really not offering much off the ball and if you're not scoring and you're not offering much on the ball then what are you doing for the team he did brilliantly to be fair there was a moment in the first half to set up ganacho and that was probably the only good thing that he did he picked out the right pass instead of shooting himself when the angle was tight ganacho screwed it wide um

and the Highland lashed out, didn't he? Kicked the post, threw his hands up. He was clearly not happy, but you just feel it's a bit hypocritical, don't you, from Highland? When you're reacting like that to a teammate, at least have a really good goal scoring record yourself to be able to lash out like that. He was obviously hooked for Xerxe, replaced and United improved.

Where are we with Hoyland right now? He scored seven goals this season. He scored 16 last season. I was of the opinion that was a pretty decent first year at the club, considering he was so young and it was his first season in England, adapting to the Premier League. But it doesn't look like he's going to improve on that total, does it, this year? He'd have another, miscounting there, nine goals to go. And could you see Hoyland scoring nine goals from now until the end of the campaign? Probably couldn't.

If he's clutching at a straw, he was the player of the month last year in February. That was the time, of course, when he went on his purple patch. He scored at Wolves. He scored a very good goal against West Ham. There was a decent predatory finish at Aston Villa. He got two very well-taken goals at Luton. And then he got injured. And you knew at that time it was end-of-day stuff for United because

because they were starting to look pretty good for the top four and he was the one injury they could not afford and of course the following day they lost 2-1 at home to Fulham and after that I mean Hoyland did he did pretty much struggle for the rest of the season with the way it was going and

I know he had a couple of goals towards the end of it, but ultimately he was dropped for the running. He was dropped for the FA Cup final. And we've spoken about him chapter and verse in terms of how he was absolutely the wrong profile of striker to sign Schalke.

That summer and that summer is becoming quite infamous for just how poor the planning was from United and whether it be the investment in Mason Mount, which is I he was just a player. I didn't think they should ever have signed. And Hoyland was another player. I just didn't think they should ever have signed. And of course, they overpaid for both of them. Hoyland was overpriced and he's also been overpromoted. He's literally the number nine now.

But he doesn't turn 22 until next month. And there are very few strikers at that age, if you're spending big on them, you've got to think, right, he must have a really good goal-scoring record. But then you looked at Hoyland's goal-scoring record in Denmark, Austria and Italy combined, and it was mediocre. And so you're inclined to think, well, how's he going to cut it in the Premier League?

And he's not cut it. He's got two Premier League goals this season. My biggest concern at the moment is that United have just played in back-to-back Premier League games, the best team in the Premier League and the worst team in the Premier League. And Hoyland's performance in both of them was identical.

And the game in between at Arsenal, he was the weakest player for United on the pitch again that day. You could, I suppose, put him level with Dalot, given Dalot got sent off.

But you go back to his debut when he came on at Arsenal and he unnerved Gabriel and Saliba. There was that shout for a penalty. There was his role in the disallowed goal. He had a really, really bullish start to his United career coming on in that game and doing as well as he did. Unfortunately, they didn't get the result, but he was definitely a positive that day. And you compare that performance against Arsenal, which would have been about 20 minutes, they were there about to start against Arsenal, you

the other week and he doesn't look, he just doesn't look like the same player. And he looks like he's been weighed down by, um,

pressure by the expectation that's what you need as a Manchester United striker you've got to be able to cope with the occupational hazards that the role entails and Ten Hag told us during that pre-season in San Diego that he was convinced that Hoyland had the character to deal with the stresses of playing for Manchester United and

When he was talking about him at the time, it was one of those things that where none of us had really seen Hoyland play or hadn't really, didn't know a great deal about his character. He was saying things that were opening our eyes for him. And we thought, well, maybe they'll be all right with him. And he has got some character, but this season he's gone downhill. And I think this is the third season

eight game spell without a goal that he's had at United, which if you're signing a striker for 64 million pounds, rising to 72 million pounds, you can maybe get away with one of those lean spells every few years. But he's had three of them.

one and a half seasons in at the club. And as Amrim has stressed repeatedly this week, this is a squad that has a lack of goals. And the big problem as well that United have, because Amrim has said that it's going to be, he used the word rollercoaster for the end of the season, the remaining four months. And I agree with him because this is a capricious United side. They are unpredictable teams.

But also, I mean, this is relevant to Xerxes as well. Against Bournemouth last month, Xerxes lost an aerial duel. Amrim's instant reaction is to turn to Carlos Fernandez and essentially say, go and summon Rasmus. And that's exactly what happened. Xerxes lost an aerial duel. Hoyland was summoned. Last night against Southampton,

Hoyland lost an aerial duel in the 50th or the 51st minute. Amrim turned around to Carlos Fernandez, go and get Joshua. And Xerxe came on. United clearly have a head coach who does not truly believe in either of the two strikers they have signed for more than £100 million in successive summers. That is a big bloody problem for them for the remaining months of the season because they're going to have to work with those two strikers and

They're also going to have to find a potential workaround. Yet they've got three other forwards who could conceivably, they won't all leave this month, but there's a hell of a lot of interest in Garnaccio. Rashford wants out. There's chatter about Anthony as well. These are not proven goal scorers either, but they're so light in attack.

it's just a bit of a disastrous situation that they're in. Do you think he's too young, Samuel? I mean, we've talked about it before in that summer when they should have signed a more experienced striker. And I've just checked the Premier League top goal scorers there on my screen. You've got Salah, Haaland, Isaac, Cole Palmer, Mbwemo, Chris Wood, Wissa, Matthias Kuhne. So obviously with the exception of Cole Palmer, who's a...

a fantastic football player. Everyone on that list is 25 or above, I'd say. Mid-20s to late-20s. You've just said yourself, Hoyland doesn't turn 22 until the first week of February. And he's at the most scrutinised football club in the world and he's playing in one of the most important positions as well. Is it not just a case of United have messed up in signing such a young player who is still learning, who is still developing? And we're seeing what should have probably been expected there on the pitch.

To an extent, yes, but you're always judged on your goal score and record and we can't just always...

to his age or referred to his background. If Manchester United have signed you for a fee rising to £72 million, there's got to be a pretty good reason for that, or certainly a few good reasons for it. They must have seen something in him, but it was bad decision-making. And I've compared him before to Javier Hernandez, who was around 20 or 21 when he joined United, but he joined a squad that had Rooney, Berbatov and Kovacic

pretty relevant that he was because he was always injured, Michael Owen. So he could go in there, learn his trade off them, but he hit the ground running. He scored on his debut. He scored a brilliant brace at Stoke City early on that was kind of fuelled belief, not just in, not fuelled belief for him, but fuelled belief among United fans that they had found this gem. The other crucial element of the Hernandez deal, of course, was

He was, you know, similar to Hoyland, he was unknown. I'd say in Hernandez's case, he was a complete unknown. When it was announced they'd signed him, I don't think anybody in Europe who didn't work for a football club had ever heard of him. But he only cost £6 million. You fast forward 13 and a half years.

And Hoyland's costing at least £64 million. And it's the same entry level. Now, United clearly overpaid for him. And I know that Paris Saint-Germain were shopping at the same level and they had a

They put a bid in for him as well and ended up with Randall Colomwani. And he was the other striker that United were looking at. Clearly, neither of them were ideal. The two top options, they just deemed unattainable, Kane and Osman. That was complete nonsense because Kane, of course, left for Bayern Munich. So that's why I've always said with Hoyland, it's not his fault to an extent because he should never have been signed otherwise.

to become Manchester United's starting striker. And the planning was so bad that they were talking about during that preseason that he wouldn't start every game and that he would swap with Rashford. There was absolutely no mention whatsoever of Anthony Martial, which is understandable because he took the club for a ride and he seemed to put, well, he had his feet up for the majority of last season anyway, didn't he? He didn't play again after the Bournemouth game in early December. And

And that was a problem for Rashford because having just had his 30 goal season from the left wing, he's told that and he thinks, hang on a minute, why am I going to be playing there? And Rashford only started two games there at the start of that season. And it's not an excuse for the way he, um,

for the meagre amount of goals he scored last season. But it certainly, it had a bearing on his, it did have a bearing on his form because he thought he was going to be in that role. And then in pre-season, he's being played as the striker and he's being told to prepare to lead the line for the start of the season when he knows and we know that he is not a striker.

But Hoyland is, unfortunately for him now, he's starting to look really out of his depth. He doesn't want to duel with defenders. I cannot recall a senior United striker who is as hopeless in the air as Hoyland. And that is another big problem in the Premier League. He shouldn't be though, should he? He's built for it when you look at him. Yeah, he's got the physique for it. Yeah.

You should be all right, Jules. Zirxian Highland have scored 11 goals between them in all competitions. And just looking at that list, Johan Wissar from Brentford has 11 in the Premier League, which you just smash your head against the wall, don't you, when you look at the numbers and it just backs up what we're seeing on the pitch. We'll leave it there anyways for part one and we'll take a quick break and be back in a moment for part two.

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Welcome back to part two of the Manchester Isbred podcast. We'll finish off our analysis of the Southampton game, as I'm sure you'll be delighted to hear. You might just want to move on from that much, but we'll continue a bit more because United lost a midfield battle, Samuel Afo, in that game. Kobimeni was replaced at half-time by Anthony Manuogadi. It was obviously hooked off as well in the 51st minute.

They are developing a relationship and they're starting to look a lot better alongside each other. But this was another aggression as a pair, wasn't it? There was just no control exerted against Southampton. And I was far more disappointed in Mainu than Ugarte. Mainu has been...

He's certainly, since he made his full Premier League debut in, what was it, November 2023 at Everton, he's had so many good performances and he's been brilliant against some excellent sides as well during that time. Liverpool at home, FA Cup final against City that day at Goodison as well. He was the best player for me.

So you expect him to be able to exert control as he's approaching his, he turns 20 in early April. You expect him to be able to dictate a game against Southampton. He didn't. I mean, he had one of the best opportunities for United at nil-nil and not only didn't he shoot, which I thought was on, but the pullback for Garnaccio was well, well away from Garnaccio. There was some kinks to iron out in his game and he,

And he was asked about, you know, is it difficult preparing, training your team when you don't necessarily know who's going to be staying at the club beyond the current transfer window? And he said that, you know, sometimes players hear things and it can affect them. And it's relevant to wonder whether Malia has been affected where United...

I think United have gone about it in the wrong way. I can understand it to an extent in that this team, where they are, nobody should be deemed untouchable. I get that. But they have practically whipped up interest in two players who were the poster boys in the summer. And it may be in one gun, actually it may be in the other.

And it's a pretty drastic shift six months, seven months later to then make it abundantly clear that

any academy player fair game if the right offer comes in they'll be sold I like the thing because he's so laid back he'd probably be kind of unaffected by all of this going on in the background he is that kind of personality where he is incredibly demutual for his age and he is we all know he's so laid back I like the thing it's not having a big impact but it is a valid point to mention

But he's not played... How many good games has he had this season? One or two? Well, I think coming into the season, he's obviously had an injury. Anfield, certainly. Yeah, he's come into a struggle inside. There's been a change of manager, a change of system. Amram was interesting on him when he spoke in the embargoed section, wasn't he? Because he said he's not as far as long as some of you guys think, meaning you guys referencing journalists. And he said he's still got a lot to work on and develop.

He clearly does. He's just not been at his brilliant best this season. But I think it's always difficult when you're such a young player and you're carrying those expectations on your shoulders in a side that is struggling to really show and give the best account of yourself.

I completely agree with that. That's what made his form last season so exceptional. He came into a struggling side. If anything, he's done it before. Of course, a player can get ground down by it. He can get fed up with it. But he has shown that he's capable of performing for a team when they're not performing or certainly their form book is in a pretty dire state. As I said, the win last night was United's first outright win

in over a month.

But what Amrim said about him quite recently, as you just touched upon, he's correct in that he has still clearly got a long way to go because he's not performed this season. And I hope for his sake that it was eight weeks he was out for, wasn't it, with a hamstring strain. I was hoping that would be a blessing in disguise and that it would allow him to have an overdue rest, having played in the Euros during the summer.

and had such an intense, I mean, it was a pretty intense seven or eight month period he'd have had from coming into the United team in November for that game at Goodison and then forcing his way into the England side during the European Championship and starting in the final there. But, and of course, there's been a managerial change at United as well.

But a lot has gone against him in that he's not had the form. He's not had a consistent partner, even though he'll have known during the summer that United were signing Manuel Ugarte to partner him, whether it was going to be whatever formation it was going to be. It was going to be those two, ideally, at some point down the line. And there's still peaks and troughs there. Whereas last season, it just seemed to be peak after peak after peak with Uruguay.

with Main who so I sincerely hope he gets back to that level because he's he's a hell of a player and he's a wonderful player to watch when when he's on song but he's not been singing the best of tunes recently from one 19 year old to another then and I guess it's important to stress me again 19 years old and I'm about to discuss Lenny Yorrell 19 years old he was had in tows wasn't he as you put it he had a

a difficult night up against some pacey and tricky wingers who were kind of just attacking them in those wide areas. He was getting dragged out and the ball was getting flicked past them. But having said that, Samuel, is it not? I think you made the point. It's a rite of passage. I think you said for United players, young United players to go through something like that. And Joro was always going to have these moments this season because he's in a new country, yada, yada, yada, learning to adapt. And that was a bit of a lesson for him last night, wasn't it? Every, almost every game,

newly signed or recently signed United centre-back as a bit of a nightmare. And that trend was bucked by, of all people, Eric Bailly in 2016. He had such a good start for United, getting the man the match on his debut in the Community Shield. And then he got the play of the month in his first month at the club. Harry Maguire had a pretty steady start as well, in fairness.

It will have helped that he was Premier League ready as well. But even Lisandro Martinez, of course, he got going quite quickly and he had a really, really good first season. But

We remember Brighton, we remember Brentford. Those were his first two games for the club. So it is a rite of passage. It's something that nobody should be worried about. I mean, Jorah had a torturous night. Of the players who would have lost sleep over that game, I think he might still be awake as we speak at this moment. It was not a good night for him whatsoever.

but he's just got to move on from it. And people at the club have got to tell him, you know, Yap Stam getting the chase in from...

Nicola Nelke in the Charity Shield in 1998 and at Highbury early on in that season in the treble. Gary Pallister being involved in the 5-1 at Main Road early on in his United career in 1989. It has happened to the best of them. Rio Fernand did not have a good start to his United career. He was injury prone in his first few months after injury.

He moved there from Leeds in 2002. Nemanja Vidic did not have a good start. He was very, very shaky. I particularly remember when they lost at Ewood Park in the league. It might have been his first Premier League start, in fact, in January or February 2006. And I've just mentioned there four or five of the best centre-backs in United history. So, yeah,

I don't think he should worry. I mean, not even I don't think. He just should not worry about what happened last night. He should worry about it if it happens a second time or a third time in the coming weeks. But Amrim also, in fairness to him, he tried to ease the...

attention on him he's the scrutiny by saying the way they were set up didn't really help him that they left him one against one and that he was where Ahmad I think was playing on the wing and is such an attack minded player because he is an attacker that part

possibly left Joro more isolated and it was also quite innovative what Southampton did in that they didn't play with a striker they had three forwards they were pretty fluid and it was almost as if those three forwards pitted against United's back three and they penned United in quite often and made it very uncomfortable for them. Ahmad made his laugh in the mix when I asked him which position he prefers right wing back or right wing and he replied I prefer both I'm not sure it works like that Ahmad but

thanks for the call anyways. Moving on then, there's a game on Sunday against Brighton, 2pm at Old Trafford. As you just said before, Brighton are a very good side, the decent, obviously better than Southampton, bottom of the league and United must play much better. They should, yeah. Well, that's the tricky thing. Any...

Any game for any team going to Old Trafford is winnable and Brighton have turned over United a couple of times in recent years. They've won their past two trips to Old Trafford. Going into that game in September last season,

most people expected Brighton to win because of the state United were in at the time and Brighton did win they won 3-1 and the scoreline fluttered United that day Brighton went 3-0 up at one point and then they sorry 3-0 up and then they just pretty much took their foot off the gas when they they could have really rubbed United's noses in it so it will be it'll be fascinating to see how Brighton fare it's the third I think

Obviously, last season, De Zerbi was in charge. The season before that, Potter was in charge. It would have been one of his last games as Brighton manager. And they've got a different manager in charge this season. But they have a very consistent way of playing. They're very identifiable players.

They've got some terrific players there. And you look at the team they picked last night, I think there were certain selections made for their winner, Ipswich, that had United on the mind on Sunday. Danny Welbeck was on the bench at Portman Road. You'd expect him to start at Old Trafford. He's had a... I know he got injured recently, but he's been excellent this season, whenever I've watched him. And...

I think he was certainly warming up for a potential England recall at one point and you wouldn't rule it out. He's,

He's doing so well at Brighton, but they've got quality in depth as well. You look at Brighton's bench last night and the players they had at their disposal to bring on should they have needed to. And it's just a squad that is brimming with quality. I think they had Eddinger starting, they had Minter on the bench. They've got some really, really good players and

As I said earlier, I don't think too many United fans will be turning up on Sunday expectant of a victory, put it that way.

I imagine Diego Dalla comes back into the team and Maswari moves back to the other side and Ahmad probably starts in one of the number 10 roles again. I don't think there's much more I'd really on the game, but we will end on your story. Yep. Bit of transfer housekeeping at the end of the podcast. Napoli have had a bid rejected for Alejandro Ganacho with around 40 million pounds. That's quite a lot of money, but probably not enough for a player of his talent.

But he is considered as obviously an academy player, although he joined from Atletico Madrid. And as we mentioned in the last few weeks, United are open to those sales because they are incredibly helpful to operate within the PSR rules. And I don't agree with that. I don't think you agree with that. It's a lot of rubbish, isn't it? It's anti-football, the rules.

I possibly would would go as far as that it's as we've discussed recently there's there's nothing wrong with using your academy as a cash cow and United have not milked it enough or they've struggled to even you know get it into a place where they could milk it unlike City have City with their academy or Chelsea with their academy I mean some of the fees that they've

received for players that you've barely heard of have been pretty mind-blowing. James Trafford, I think James Trafford went for roughly the same fee to Burnley as Dean Henson went to Crystal Palace and James Trafford when he signed for Burnley had been playing in League One for Bolton

And that's just, it boggles the mind in one sense, but also it just absolutely shows how dreadful United have been for years at selling players and also developing certain academy players internationally.

into into sellable assets because Dean Henderson they could have been they well the problem they had there was that they had a manager who's indecisive and is about to rock up at Besiktas if they had someone who was decisive they could have got big money for him Chelsea had a 40 million pound bid rejected for him one summer Norton Forest were looking at to sign for 30 million pounds in the end United got 15 million up front for him because they they dillied and dallied and

And there was indecision after indecision. And in the end, it gets to the point where they just have to sell them and just take whatever's reasonably okay on the table from a prospective buyer.

But where the goalposts have changed now, you've got, as I said earlier, two of the poster boys of last season, or the two poster boys last season, because Hoyland was hanging off their coattails, Garnaccio and Mainu. They are now both effectively for sale. If a team offers £70 million for Garnaccio or £70 million for Mainu, United would accept it because they need to raise funds. They need that profit to be reflected in

for the financial figures. Obviously, it came out this week that none of the Premier League clubs were in breach of PSR for the period between 2021 and 2024. But United are still having to bounce those books because you look at the finances between the period of starting from 2022 and coming up to the present.

There will be some fundamental issues there. I mean, 2022, you think of how much money they spent eventually or committed to investing in that summer when Casemiro and Anthony were signed quite late on the transfer window. And they got money that summer, I think, for two players, James Garner and Andres Pereira, who it's not a coincidence, two academy players, two homegrown players. And they didn't get a great deal in the following summer. But I think the highest sales rate

Possibly, correct me if I'm wrong, probably Anthony Alanga and Dean Henderson. Again, two academy players. Last summer, Mason Greenwood, they got a reasonable fee for him. All things considered, Scott McTominay, they got something like £25 million in or there or thereabouts.

So there is a clear theme here and they see the potential in it. And it's got to the point now where they think, you know what, if we get a big, big fee for one of these two players, we can sell it. We can sell them and we can sell it to supporters why it's a good thing. Because I think that's, that is going to be the other thing they have to. I mean, that's the impossible task. If you're trying to convince supporters that selling Kobe Manu is a good thing, it's just, it's just not going to happen, is it?

It's like George Orwell, isn't it? The party wants you to ignore all the evidence in your eyes. Yeah, and look, United have been quite Orwellian at times in recent years, but they will say, well, look, the manager has had him in and out of the team. I mean, this is if Mane was to be sold this month. I still think that's a really long shot given his valuation and the length on his contract there.

But there is a way where they could, you know, fans might not like it, they might not swallow it, but they can try and frame it as why we had to do this and why we think it's in the interests of Manchester United. But then you have to go out and sign someone who is going to be able to play football as well as Cobby Mayne, who did in the FA Cup final last season or against Liverpool in the FA Cup quarterfinal last season or on his debut at

at Goodison Park, at Molyneux. And I know I'm harking back to his form primarily last season, but look how well he played at Anfield recently. And also, he is a kid who has grown up in Greater Manchester as a United fan. And you cannot underestimate that because there is a definite attachment there. And we saw that when Marcus Rashford came into the team in 2016.

just how exuberant he was, how much he buzzed off playing for his boyhood club. And that's why it's such a pity that it's gone the way it has with him and the fact that he's not started or he's not played in any of the past eight games because it is different with an academy player. But also you've got to look at the finances of it. I mean, Gary Neville touched upon it recently regarding Mohamed Salah. I know he's after, what, 400 grand a week, but

If Liverpool let him go, they will have to sign someone for £60 million. That player will have to be put on £200,000 a week minimum, something like that, because of their valuation. And all of a sudden, you're investing more money in a player who is probably not as good as Mohamed Salah, and there's a very good chance that he will not have the same impact as him just after Mohamed Salah has probably scored the goals that have taken Liverpool to their 20th title.

See if United somehow did sell Mane for £70 million, which I think is an unlikely outcome. I think he will sign that deal. Our supporters are going to trust a football club that has just regularly, every summer I got their recruitment massively wrong, to bring in a better player with that money. No, absolutely not, as you've just said. Anything else to add on the transfer front, Samuel? Sorry, go on. I suppose with Garnaccio, that is an easier one to...

like we had to do this. And as I've said, I think some of the podcasts recently, he's been developed as a winger and he's played as a winger in the first team. And now United are operating in a system where they have fullbacks on the wings and he's having to play infield. Most other teams, Napoli, for instance, he would go in on their left wing. That would be his role. And that's clearly where he's...

He's at his most comfortable. So there would be some logic there if they're getting big money to sell him as unplattable as it may be for some United supporters. But he's not practically looking for a move either. He's quite happy at United. So that's where the club are caught a little bit between a rock and a hard place in that

No, they shouldn't be deeming any player, they shouldn't be deeming one or two players untouchable or not for sale. I completely understand that. But they seem to be whipping up, whether it's intentional or unintentional, they seem to have whipped up more interest in some of their best players, certainly talent-wise anyway, in Mainu and Garnaccio.

Amram said at the start of the month that United would look to do something in this window, but it is starting to feel like there has to be movement regarding outgoings for that to happen, doesn't it? I mean, we're on the 17th of January now. There's not much left in the window halfway through. And Marcus Rashford's obviously the big one if they can arrange an exit from him. But it does feel like, again, that'll probably be a loan deal with a European club instead of a permanent transfer, which would be ideal for everyone involved, really.

I think there's every chance at this time next week when we're talking, nobody will have left, nobody will have come in. And I suspect that there'll be a good chance of that being the case.

two weeks from now and then come that monday and i i really hate the football lawmakers for extending the transfer the gen sorry the january slash february transfer window to february the third i mean work that out why the hell has it been extended three days into february and then come that monday i wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot of movement and the the comings and goings at united because that is the way it often works uh you feel it out you feel the you

you fill clubs out agents out what have you and when push comes to shove someone has to blink and then there's there's the domino effect uh i know i'm mixing quite a few multiples there but that's that's kind of like the way it's going and there are some clubs who have been a bit more opportunistic this month because with psr it's the financial year ends on june 30th so that's that's only a a

small fraction of the of the summer transfer window which of course is open for all of July and August so that's why I think the January transfer window is you know club it feels a little bit more feverish this year than it has in previous years and it's just strange really that United have got a player there who wants out and it feels like they're not expending enough

or dedicate enough resources to ensuring that he goes. Yet it's a player who was deemed not for sale six or seven months ago, who suddenly there was a hell of a lot of noise around and is the player who has been the subject of a bid from Napoli. So it's not great. It's pretty unstable. And I feel for Amram because he could do with stability, but...

He can't know for certain which players are going to be with him come the end of the winter transfer window, but it is absolutely imperative that United don't end it with a weaker squad than they started it. And that would be the big reservation with Garnaccio if they were to sell him. Would you trust them to get a player in who would be better than him and who you could look at and you would say, yes, United are a stronger squad with Garnaccio gone and this player in

it's a tall order for United to do that in the winter window if it should come to it. Yeah, very well said. We'll leave it there then, Samuel. Thanks for your time as usual. Thank you, Stephen. Thank you. And thanks to the listeners. As always, we'll be back on Monday to reflect on the game against Brighton. Enjoy your weekend and take care.