John Maxwell on Building Your Leadership Legacy Now
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Hey, everybody, welcome to the and destiny leadership podcast. And before we get into today's content, I wanted to thank factor for sponsoring this episode. No prep, no mass meals.

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So today we are discussing a topic that should be on every readers mind, but often gets pushed to the back burner. We're talking about legacy. And legacy is different than reputation. A reputation is what people think about you currently.

A legacy is what people will associate with you or your name, ultimately legacies what we leave behind, which means no matter what stage of life you're in or what stage of leadership you're in, you're actually building your legacy, whether you realize that or not or whether you're intention or not. So if you lead people, since this is a leadership pocket, if you lead people, you're gonna a leadership legacy. And the people you lead will associate something with your leadership, and that includes your kids if your apparent.

So we're algona end up somewhere as a relates legacy, we might as well end up somewhere on purpose, right? Were proud of and who Better to help us tackle this topic than the man who is not only written extensively on leadership, but has lived out an incredible leadership legacy himself. No stranger to our podcast, my friend john maxwell, welcome to.

And it's so joyful to be with you. I always love our time together. But when we can have time together talking about leadership and like I see, we have people that we want to add value to you, it's really a good .

thing in that IT is. And again, as i'm going to share a little bit, you have you have inspired me in this area for the for the eight of you out there who do are not familiar with john. He's been on the podcast several times, but john maxwell, as a best selling author, speaker, coach, and later he has sold over thirty five million books, not a casual endeavor.

His books and programs have trained, literally trained, millions of leaders globally, which is why he's the person to talk about this topic with. I'm john leads the maxim leadership foundation and equip, impacting global leadership through values based training. He's recognizes the number one leader in business by the american managment association and the world's most influences leadership expert by business insider and ink magazine.

But most importantly to me, he is a friend. He's been my friend for many years. He's been an encouragement to me in a very unique way.

Every once in a while, I get myself in trouble, usually by accident, and I will receive a card in the mail from john's, say, and keep going and andy, you're doing the right thing. Ignore the credico I tell you one one handed note from john maxwell baLances a thousand strangers on the end of my social media feet. So john, thank you so much for being a part of this.

And one more thing before I let you start talking, johna also is the first person to invite me to speak on the topic of leadership, for which I will be so very grateful. I had never spoken on this topic before. He invited me to be a part of a conference he launched years ago, which was a certainly a brand change for him.

Maybe we can talk a little bit about that and he invited me to speak. Instead, you ve got to talk about leadership. I'm like I ve never spoken on that before, and I have been speaking on the topic of leadership ever said so again, extraordinary influence in my life, john. Anyway, so let's talk about legacy and what's gonna associated with us at the end. You go first and then i'll just figure some questions.

Thank you, my friend. First, you know, I remember well alyse that many, many years ago, I was talking to my team and I said, we need to raise up another generation leaders Younger than us, obviously.

And in our conversation, I talked about you and I said, you need delete IT because you're Younger and and you were already leading a building, a great church, so you're already leading, but you just really had yet expressed leadership and taught IT. And I knew i'd really knew that you were a person to do IT. And of course, we start to remember right there in your church, en IT just took goof.

And, you know, IT had an incredible run and very quickly that the tin was handed off to you because you were the one that really needed delete IT, because you have your age and and besides your terrific leader. And it's one of my favorite things that we've lost. Ed, I go everywhere I go. Andy, I run into catalyst people everywhere I go.

Yeah, kids come up to me and they just say, you know, I was at Candy's that you that's where I first got my leadership training yeah so when you're thit of like a see again, my first thought was, who do I get to really run the thing and who do I hand the baton off? And I really made that decision really. At the same time I said, this start catalyst is kind of like I started something new and already had the baton to hand off to somebody else to really run IT and and IT really worked out well.

And of course, you did such a fantastic job and it's help help tens of thousands of people. So IT worked. It's really a legacy story in itself.

Yeah and let me feed into that little bit why that's a legacy story. I had been to your previous conferences. They were completely different. I would bring our staff, I took copious notes, and then suddenly are not, I don't know, felt suddenly you decided i'm going to not leave behind, but i'm going to step away from the people in my season of life, your season of life back then, and reach lower. In fact, the first catalyst, ference, this was dramatic, was for leaders forty years old in Younger.

So you essentially, and I want you to talk about this, you essentially uninvited your entire audience that you had built, spent years building into. And instead of trying to invite Younger leaders to your current conference, you I mean, IT was you cross the trench. You didn't try to strategy IT.

You cross the trench, which was in some ways risky, but your commitment to the next generation of leaders, which is your part of your legacy, you made a huge decision. I mean, you basically said the people supported you for years. You're not invited to this conference.

So can you talk a little bit about that because that that big decisions, somewhat risky decision in terms of your brand because you could have just read out to the sunset the rest of your leadership life with the the people who had come up with you through the years. But that was a big decision. Talk about little .

bit was a big decision. But I remember in that meeting, let's get force, which was a great decision that the other one was I said anyone over forty can't attend and when you talk about me not inviting those people, I I was not inviting myself and I it's kind of like the I got to show up a galas is because for the first couple years, obviously, I just kind of talk basically try to serve you to get everything set up.

But yes, I say to anyone, if they're going to have a great impact upon their culture, they have to leave their generation. They really do. And and of course, now seventy seven, I really have to leave by a generation.

Other words, you really have to give up to go up. And, and, and so we were willing to say, no, let's go for the hundred forty, you remember. And the, that was the big push. Remember all the people over forty trying to sneak in the catalyst?

I think I was forty one, so I I, I kind had a sneaky and I just got there because we were hosting, invited me to speak. But I think .

part of legacy is understanding that the run you're on doesn't have to be the run you continue because I think there in my life, they're been several times where i've had to say, okay, I have to make a trade off here if I want to go any further and if I want to go any higher, I really have to give this up and go to uncharted territory. In fact, sometimes I think i'm up. I've I been maybe more anything else, a pioneer.

I just stepped out a lot of a new territory for different reasons. But IT was always the fact that I stepped out new territory because that territory wasn't been taken by anybody else I member, where Robert chiller said to me one time, he said, john, if somebody else is doing that really well, get behind them and support them, play on their team, do everything you can, make them successful. He said, you set your mark by doing something distinctive and different that's fresh.

The people will catch their baggini IT will be help the people. So I think that legacy, when you think of that being long term and and lastly, which is very true, I think legacy is also very creative and willing to let go. And maybe what's familiar or comfortable or and jump the fence, jup the fence and and start something brand neo.

And i've done that and you had I tell pioneers the only thing they need to do is have a heavy coat because you're going to take a lot of errors. And your pioneer two, you've done a lot prior, but you have to have a heavy coat because whenever you're doing something fresh, new, people don't understand that people kind of work wonder why you did IT and check an attribute. ves.

So but you don't do IT for yourself. Here's what pioneer nose pioneer knows that they're first, but they won't be best that the people coming behind me, you I mean, I think of all the people that are behind me, they're doing so much Better than i've ever done and pinner's, i'm willing to go first so somebody else can climb higher. And I never expect when it's over my legacy, to say he was the greatest of the best, I just want them to say he was first.

When I crossed over with my books and went on the secular side, I opened up A, I opened up a honey world for Christ. Authors said, you know, that nobody had crossed over. And I take great joy in the fact that, you know, I open the door for somebody.

There's going to be bigger, Better, faster and smarter than me. And I think that's, I think that's a part of legacy that you're proud of. The people that come behind you really do stand on your shoulders and improve other people's lives Better than you would have done yourself.

I want to drill down on that, that you energy that topic because again, we talk about Younger leaders in just a minute, but everybody has some sort of legacy even if they're not in leadership and and they aren't thinking in terms of leadership. But the leader's legacy to some extent, do you agree, needs to be the leaders they've raised up to bring along behind him. And this is something you have been so intentional and do IT.

And i'm certainly a product of that, but talk a little bit specifically about um practical ways for current leaders, business leaders, nonprofit leaders to think in terms of to connect the dots between their legacy. And the leaders they leave behind because we think of legacy in terms of, oh, they built a building, they built an organization, but you have built people. And I think regardless of what leaders are thinking currently in m their legacy, the people they build and leave behind or don't build and leave behind will be part of their legacy. And let me go negative for just a minute, then let you respond.

We both have worked around or no leaders who, because of their insecurity, built organizations that they hope will always be their legacy when their names come to mind but because of their insecurity they were afraid to round themselves with strong leaders and consequently they don't have a people legacy terms of leaders they invested in and what you just said about yourself, which is absolutely true, you have not ever um black or west or stepped back from the idea of giving other leader's opportunities so will you talk just a little bit to the leader who's like, no, my legacy is going to be my company. My legacy is going to be an invention and you know whatever IT might be, or my church, but that's a missed opportunity because at the end of the day, is the people that we have invested in that will ultimately be the next generation of legacy. Because no, no, here's news flash.

Nobody's gna remember my buildings or my church or my sermons or, I mean, nobody's going to remember that stuff anyway. They're going to take our names off stuff. So anyway, just go deep on that for minute.

Yeah, thank you for ask me to do that end because i'm very passionate about this was a conversation with jack welch. One time for lunch, we were talking about leadership, and he said something to me that was very helpful. He said, john, he said, I poured my life in a general electric, and I was known as perhaps maybe the number one CEO in the entire world.

But he said, you know, when I left IT very quickly, IT went down and he says, as I look back now, he said, I put wait too much time in my organization and I didn't put near enough time in the people. And he said, don't do that. In fact, he's the one that gave me that phrase, you for me, safe for have legs for your legacy.

And we said, legacy said, i'm talking about people you want people movers. People move s with your vision. People move VS with your values.

And he said, IT only can be done through people. In fact, that was probably the canals for me, starting my coaching company. I mean, I was already sixty five and I didn't need another company.

But I thought, no, no, this is a chance for me. Ted again, go to the next generation down. Give them my name, do some training, do some equipped and have at IT.

And I remember when we started the coaching company that we decide do something totally different. I said, outside of them paying a fee, a fair fee, to get become a coach, I don't want any of their profits. I mean, I don't want them.

A percentage comes back to the cut. I said, I want them to be blessed. I want them to prosper.

I want them to do well. Let's just give them freedom to be an entrepreneur. R, and, and, and we made that committment. We made that committment that here that we wanted more for them then we wanted from them.

Yeah and and I think that's a legacy thought too that you really look at the people that you're pouring into and you really do what more for them that I want to be on the plus side and I want to be on the minus side. I don't want I don't want to constantly have people look at me and say, guys, he didn't perform, I didn't. I just want to give them my best and be exercise.

I I think that's all foundational thinking for what legacy is all about. And so here's how I see IT. When you are really a legacy leader, you've become very replicable. I IT doesn't bother me to hand off at somebody. In fact, everything I get, I almost asked myself, how quickly can I give IT to somebody else to run? Because as soon as I can give you to somebody else, I can go create something and different and fresh and and so i'm always kind of wanting to work myself out of a job and and handed off and handed of my companies off to mark all now.

And and he's done a fantastic job and he's doing that much Better than than I do IT and you I still server aim trying to help you and okay, I hadn't lady come up to me recently and SHE said, I know why you're successful. I said, why I successful? He said, you've been very successful.

Helping other people be very successful when I thought about that thought, yeah, I think that's kind of where I mean, when I look at you and andy and what you have done and how i'm so proud if you're not only building a great church, but i'm proud of you because I think you have been a leader that I think you're a pier. I think you've stepped out in territories people didn't want to step out in and said things that needed me said that they were unwilling to say that would make them uncomfortable. And when I look at you, I feel a great sense of accomplishment and pride. And there were a lot of people done more for you than I have and put a lot more. And so I mean.

i'm not like I understand the realm of leadership and you are the you, the teacher and the encourage and the coach. And anyway, just clarification. I mean, a lot of people have we have been investing by multiple people.

But I get more time. I get more joy really out of your success that might I mean, I i've had a lot of things. I mean, i've been incredibly blessed, but there is something about an unselfishness, that of a legacy person who knows hey, hey, i'm dying.

I'm time I got a very small type four score. We're that we're here. And in the other thing about legacy is so interesting, they want to be replaced.

They're handing baton. So when I see an air replaceable leader, I know that company organza, they're in trouble. They're in that because IT is going to rise and fall on them and know what else. And and I think we need be replaceable. Now here's what's incredible the moment I willing to give IT all up and replace IT net value and pass on the paton, what happens is the legacy becomes irreplacable.

Yeah, john. Before we finished this fascinating conversation to all of our pod castle listeners, I bet you've noticed the days are getting shorter, but I bet you to do list is not. So i've got a suggestion, you can power through your busy days with factors.

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Here's something you said to me years ago. I put on a sticky note on the top of my computer and you just mentioned IT. And I want, again, tie this back to the topic of legacy.

You said, whatever we clink to diminishes whatever we give away multiples. Whatever we clean to diminishes whatever we give away multiples. And you've done this.

But going back to the jack welch quote, talk specifically to the the leader who is in that building phase. They're building either their career there. They don't mind moving from company to company or they're actually building a company or there.

So they're so focused on the thing they are building that they would save to you or to me. Okay, this whole leadership legacy thing, that's fine for someday, one day, but i'm trying to build a company. Now there's that tension and it's easy to get to sixty five, sixty six and realized you build a something, but you didn't build a lot of some ones.

In fact, we have common friends, some disease, some still active, who spent so much time on the thing. Unfortunately, when the thing went bad, that's their legacy because we will this is terrible news. We will be remembered more for our final moments than our fine est moments.

And they had the finest st moments professionally, but nationally at the end, when those names come to mind. And unfortunately, those are the things we think about IT. Talk to the busy leader who's like, I don't have time to think about legacy. Is that relates to leaders coming along behind me?

What do you like? Oh my god, a great question. It's kind like the guy who climbed the latter and got to the top of the latter and found out I was leaning against the wrong building.

Yeah I mean, and that's what you're talking about about right now. What I tell people, what I tell people is very simple. I understand the need to go build something.

There's nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, there's some, there's some credibility you have. I think you build build a great church.

That's a leadership credibility. I mean, let's put at this way, would anybody want to follow you if you had done something wonderful? I mean, it's it's kind of like that's the attraction.

What they failed to miss is the fact that IT is in people that the life change happens. IT is not in the organization. It's kind of like who matters.

You is as important as what they say. And you and i've had a lot of wonderful mentors that have helped us greatly. And and when I look back at these great mentors, they gave me some wonderful wisdom on how to do well in leadership.

But IT was who they were. IT was their spirit that was contained. I Carry their spirit. I I took my tent, most influential people in my life, one day, and I roll IT down. I spent a whole day thinking about those people, eight of them, my past away.

And when I think about who I am because they entered my life is more because who they were. you. That even what they said, yes. And so I think that I think it's very important forced to understand the spirit of legacy is not Carried by buildings in concrete and names and that type regulation, the spirit of legacy is Carried. Those legs that Carry is within IT.

You know, it's a light to tell the light you I just can I just be with you when you leave? I I just got ta have a little that stuff on me and I think that that is very important. So therefore, because I know that I believe in the power proxy mony, and I think it's very important for me if I am going to have a legacy to be close to people that i'm trying to pour into so that they can catch the person up as much as they can learn from the person.

And when I watched them catch that spirit, it's life changing. And you've done the very same thing at I want to leave more within you that I want to leave for you. What I leave for you is kind, I would hay established a little bit, and it's only it's going to know it's kind like your children, do you want to give them a gifts they'll break, but you know, by january, the first Christmas or do you want to give them an experience? You want to go take a trip with your children or do something that is going to include you. This got that life .

change that does that. Our mutual from tim elmo says this way. He says, more time with fewer people results in greater impact.

More time with fewer people. And this is the attention for the busy leader. It's okay. You know then there's the whole thing. If I need to be fair and give everybody the same amount of time, that's completely wrong. There's a handful of people that is worth more of our time.

So here's what I want to do to kind of bring this and is a practical you basically said three practical steps every leader can take right now to start building their legacy in. Number one is develop other leaders, which we've talked about. And then you just touched on the second one.

The second one is lead with integrity. And so talk a little bit about integrity and character and legacy because everybody listening art knows this. When you think about the people that we have looked up to in the past or continue to look up to, whether or not we continue to look up to them has a whole lot more to do often times with their character and integrity than what they accomplished into your point. What they accomplish or what they accomplishing gets our attention. But what keeps our attention and keeps them running around at the back of our minds when we're trying to make decisions is the issue of character and integrity.

Talk a little bit about that. I had this private conversation before for the last few years. I've just been leadership.

sad. I think everybody deserves to be LED well. And when character is missing in a leader's life, they won't be LED well.

There will be manipulated. You know, manipulations always wrong. There's there's never one time manipulation is wrong because when I manipulate in somebody, I moved them for personal gain and advantage.

And you know, I know that's exactly up. So what jesus thought about leadership, the first should be last. And you know and if you want to rule that, I mean, he just said this isn't the way leadership works.

And I think that we've lost our way in this area of leadership. And I think I think it's important to be bigger on the inside and the outside. In fact, I think if you're bigger on the inside, the outside takes care itself.

No, but I think when you're bigger on the outside and your reputations bigger than your character, you know who people think you are, advertising who you really are, I think it's only matter time till the outside crasses. You know, I just rote a book called high road leadership. It's about twelve pictures of what a high road leader looks like.

And we can choose to live on the high road. But most leaders, they either live middle road, which is transactional, or low row, which is manipulative. And both of those roads are are are roads that leaders should beyond. So if you don't mind, i'm just to give you a few pictures.

Look, absolutely yeah. Now this is great. Ah these are so transferable. This is great ahead.

They're just pictures. People do what people see, but high road leaders bring people together. They're not divisive.

They they bring people together, ever. We all have differences. There are no differences. Marketing, i've been married fifty five years. We still have differences.

But there's a difference between a difference in a division, a divisions, a choice. And when I divide, I conscious ly divide people for my advantage. Now I mended, so they bring people together.

Another one big is they value all people. They value all people, not some people or not a few people or not, the people that are like us. We're just like jesus.

We value people. And hero leaders acknowledged their humanness. I mean, they just do they just say, I didn't do that right? I wish I could have that over.

They're very at ease with their humanism. And then they also, they they do the right. Thanks for the right reason.

So their motors are are right and they give more than they take and and they place other people for their agents. And and I can go on, but that's kind of what hyo leadership is all about. IT is just a choice. It's a choice we have to make in our life. And I remember when iron happened back in two thousand, and I was writing for time order, and they want to me to write a book on business ethics because what companies were putting on the wall, they weren't walking the wall of the walk together. I remember you .

teach me about this opportunity to write that book. And I remember what you said, keep going because that this was, I can quote you from that conversation before you wrote the book ahead.

This is so good. So we had a dinner, new york, and I said, we want to write a book on business tics. I said, what? I can't write that book.

And what mean? Look at these sites. I said, ethically.

Now, if you have ethics, wow. IT works in business. So happy day. G, let's go. Were they were compartmentalise ing ethics.

Well, ethics is a way of life.

is not A A place that you put IT that works for you. If IT didn't worked for you, you don't do IT. But that was life changing for me because i'll take one.

Up to that time, we were teaching leadership skills, but we weren't teach leadership values. And that was a turn for me. All of that.

I thought I missing something here. We're doing training in leadership, but we're not we're not working with a heart or work was ahead. And so the skills are good and in fact, everything raises and falls on leadership.

And the way they rise, good leadership skills and good values. And you can't substitute one for the other. They one can't ripped. And so that was really helpful to me. And for for Young leaders, one of the things I would say to them is, first of all, you can pick your legacy now you don't have to wait to old.

That's so important. Say that again. yes. Well.

I felt my the of life leadership, but I felt that my road. And so one of the decision I made was the fact that I wouldn't go speak to large crowds, I would go speak to leadership crowds, and I would rather speak to one hundred leaders, that I went a thousand followers and and that's what I got to stay. But we add value to leaders who multiply value to others.

Because once you work with leaders, the multiplication and compound goes from there up to IT becomes quite exceptio. But that was a choice. I I want to go speak to leaders.

I made that choice because I wanted that to be what my legacy was. I remember the publisher when I said, I want to write leadership books. They discourage me.

They said, only eight percent of the people are gone to buy leadership books. You, if you really want to sell books, get to go more general. And I looked, I said, I want to change lives, not self books.

I, hey, give me the eight percent, never take the other ninety two cent. And but those are choices, again, that I made in my twenty years in my thirties, that now are compounding. And one of the things I think, and we want to make sure leaders know is that consistency really compound.

At seventy seven, I see IT so clearly at at twenty seven, I didn't. But at seventy seven, I just see that because I stayed on a leadership path and I tried to learn and grow in that leadership path. I wasn't as bad as people thought.

I wasn't the beginning. Now not as good, good people think I have because it's compounding on onus. You see you say yes, if you make your decisions early, good ones and get that path, there's a compounding that will happen in your life that is not explainable.

You look at the end of that and you will just say, god was very good to mean Better than I deserved. And I can't even imagine where I am today. I tell people if you're going to quit something, quit the first week.

Good lord, nobody message you. You didn't do anything, you know, go find out what you need. But once you find out what your real central calling is, I think that's when you really now you add lanes to that calling all the time.

That's the other means. I think sometimes they just stay right there and they don't get creative. And at another lane and and I say, you know, have a ten lane highway of leadership. You keep back in lanes, but stay in the area where you're called and think constantly of consistency compounding.

So I want to get to this third one because this is so helpful in practical. So in terms of leadership legacy, you got to develop. Other leaders are going to remembered not what you leave behind often times, but who comes along behind you. You got to leave with integrating character. Because, as I said, our final moments is IT released our country and integrity.

That's ultimately, unfortunately, unfortunately, what defines and the third, and you are such a great example of this, john, you said in order to have a leadership legacy, you have to keep growing personally that you can build a lasting legacy if you stop growing leaders, you stop learning stop thing. And one of the greatest things you can do to build your legacy is to commit to personal growth. I mean, you're seventy seven and you continue to do this.

And for those of us who know you and coming along behind you, that is part of your legacy that you didn't get stuck in a lane. And the other thing john playing brag on you. You have not allowed your season of life to be a lid to you.

And you've talked a lot the past about leadership lids as where I got we learned that crazy ology. But even in seventy seven, you've not said i've done what I need to do. I've done all I need to do. You continue to grow and lead. And that is so inspiring to me at sixty six because if you get to a season where you think, well, i've kind of done my thing and what else is there to do and you're like not having IT not have you got to keep growing first to talk about personal growth and legacy for a couple.

You know, i'm very passive about. In fact, people know me for a leadership, but i'm more passionate about personal growth because your personal growth will determine whatever area you select to excel in. Your personal growth is is going to determine how far you can go.

And in fact, i've got books to, right? In fact, I have thirteen more books I I want to write. I got a making that makes me tired.

I .

remember my secret, though, i've told you high energy. No, I, no, I have. I have the perfect store. Most people don't have that perfect storm in their life.

But one of the books I want to write is going to be entitled, is there a finish line? And I want to write IT because I think ninety nine percent people have to finish line in another life. You know, I get a certain age, I make so much money.

I moved to that place. And i'm not even criticizing finish line. I'm not criticizing IT, but I think that there's a big miss there because I think if I put A A finish line out in front of a self and post finished line when I crossed that, i'm finished.

And I keep asking people what part that don't you understand? I mean, you still are living, but you cross that finished. And the reason i'm finished this because I said I was going to be finished and and for me, for me, there's no finish line and what I mean, but that is I want to keep stretching, I want to keep learning.

I want to keep growing because that's where life is, you know, as well as I do when people get old. They don't get old because of age. They get old because they stopped.

They stop being curiously ly, they stop being hungry. They stop doing new things. And and I watched that, and i've seen that people's lives, and i've said of myself, I don't want that.

I would love to die running still, just running, just running and stretching and IT doesn't bother me that I didn't reach the finish line because the question, if you keep stretching, you keep asking the question, how far can I go? Well, if you have a finish line, you know how far you can go, you go to the finish line and and I don't know how far I can go. And there is something that is that keeps me hungry and just loving what I do and an incredibly encouraged in in doing IT. I think that's very important. Okay, last thought, when you can afford to quit, you can afford to quit.

Oh gosh.

because that's andy. That's when you're really good. Kind of like, again, why would I quit now? I mean, everything's compounding.

Everything's compounding because of years, years. It's all cup again. If I was going to quit on leadership, I could should quit the first weekend and having an accomplished. But I find so many times we get to this what I would call this incredible harvest time of our life and all of the sun, we stop and then the harvest stops.

And here's what I tell people when you quit, when you're getting right there, that harvest time in your life, you never know what you lost because you went around the cash. You just don't know, you don't even know what you lost, but I was what I know. You lost more when you're quit when you're at that productive time, then you lost at the other old time in your life. You are quitting at the time where the greatest return is.

Is there you got all your Christal zed intelligence that you could leverage, but they think I I don't have a job. I don't have. Nobody is looking for me to show up.

So this may be an third question, but you may have a certain answer. What do you hope your legacy is, john? And then i'll tell you what I think it's gonna be, but you go first.

I mean, tell you what i'm asking because I think regardless of the age of the listener, to have some idea if whether it's a sentence, maybe IT changes in five or ten years, but to have something out there that we're living for, that we hope lives after us, is so instructive. And IT puts a parameter around our morality, our ethics, our relationships and everything else is, is that funeral exercise is Stephen covey talked about. But when you think about your legacy and you've kind of said, IT.

what do you hope for? What would I teach? I'm always looking for four things. When I teach, I teach for possibilities. I'm, I live if I want.

When people hear me teach, I want them to see things that are possible that they haven't ever seen before. So what? What do I want them to see? I want to see the possibilities.

What do I want them to know? I want them to know that I value them. I want him to know that value that.

Because people rise to the level, not of belief in them, but how they self worth and value. What I want him to feel is in power. When i've done, I wanted to feel like I can go do that.

This is possible for me. It's not like IT was possible for Joanna. I, and then I want them obviously to apply and multiply, which is a leadership that I I know. If they're a follower, they can apply. If there are leader, they can apply and multiply.

And what I really want people to do because I want people, when they think of me, to just say i'm a Better person, because your max was in my life. I know I told him if I really everything on my time, and I just kind of want to put, you know, my name is john, I am a friend is not complicated. My life, my life ever been complicated.

I don't want fans, andy. I want friends, and I have friends. You've got, you gotta close the gap.

You, you don't widen the gap. You walk slowly through the crowd. You truly care for people. You truly love what you do, and you love the people that you do IT with.

So if people, when they look at me, can say, he is equipped to me, you know what? A lot of people have made me successful. I look at mentor when the ladies said, you're very successful, making everybody else very successful.

What I wanted to say to her, well, i'm very success because I had a whole bunch of people behind me that poured in the me left legacy and mattered me, that wanted me to be very successful. And I think I Better because they came in in my life. Well, I want the people that I came in the life to say he gave more than he took.

and i'm a Better person. Yeah and that is exactly what I think your legacy. It's gonna be, john.

It's not going to be a quiet, even though it's amazing. It's not gonna the books. It's gonna be you made people Better. And as you said years and years ago, you summarized your definition of success. Basically, these are my word.

You state Better than me that the closer person gets to you, the more they would respect you are love you instead of instead, I don't get too closer you to go the other way, like IT does for so many people. And that has been absolutely the case with this. This was inspiring, especially that statement, when you can afford to quit, you can afford to quit.

That is a really big deal because there are lot of leaders listening and they can't wait to get to the point where they can afford to quit. And I hope if they're thirty years old or forty years, fifty years old, I hope they will remember when you can afford to quit. That's when you can afford to.

what? Because that is perhaps when you have the most offer. And john, keep on going because you still have so much offer, you got to write thirteen more books, can't wait to to read them.

That's amazing. So to all of our podcast listeners, this has been an extraordinary conversation, at least IT has been for me. I think IT has been for you. And before we leave, we just have one ask. And that is to subscribed to the podcast by hitting follow on.

Whatever APP you listen to, you help us grow this audience, which, of course, allows us to keep improving in making IT Better, bringing you great guests like the one we had today to help you go further faster. Also be sure to visit understand dot com website that's understanding dot com website where you can download the leadership podcast application guide that we wrote that summarizes this discussion so that you can have this discussion with the people you work with or maybe the people at home. And we have some questions there to help that discussion go even Better and join us next week for river, the river episode or zizi and I will talk about john instead of talking to join about the topic of legacy. That's always a lot of fun again right here on the andy Stanley leadership podcast.