Help! The Money is Good … But My Dream Life is Different
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You can hear that sound behind me. We are alive at a personal finance conference called fin kon, and i'm here with my buddie s how you do in how wit go .

and Better now that we're hanging in out because you and I I feel like it's been, like, smile away from across the room.

So exactly. So we are going to answer questions from people who are alive right here with us, real, human, actual people in the flesh.

blood people we get to see.

Welcome to the afford anything podcast, the show that understands you can afford anything, but not everything. Every choice requires a trade off. And that's true not just for how you manage your money, but how you manage your time, focus, energy, attention to any limited resource that you have to allocate.

So what matters most and how do you make choices accordingly? Those are the two questions this podcast is here to solve. My name is Polly pant.

I trained in economic recording in columbia. I help you set priority so you can build wealth. Every other episode, I answer questions, they come from you, and I do so with the former financial planner.

mister joe. We are, and I am so happy to be here. Yes.

this annual conference that we to every year. I've been to thirteen at the last fourteen. I missed one last year.

You and I were both keynote speakers at this conference.

We were, yes.

and you did a whole funny A I thing.

Yes, exactly. I did to talk AI.

And by the way, look at how far AI has come in that year.

Yeah no. I just blows .

me away how much I use our AI in my everyday life now, right?

The talk that I gave last year's completely outdated at this point .

isn't that funny, but called the future as usual.

We are here to answer some money questions and were going to start with the question from Andrew.

Thanks, polite. I think this questions very much in line with your brand about you can afford anything, but not everything. So i've got a question on a small time real estate investor as well as in the S M.

P. Five hundred index funds. So this is kind of an asked of allocation question. I have some real estate if you add up the principle and interest the p ni of the mortgage annually, so the monthly mortgage times twelve divided by the principal.

It's about ten percent every year that I pay on a four percent ish mortgage. And so when would IT makes sense to sell index funds, pay a capital games of the market rate over the last five last years, and then pay off that mortgage? A lot of us are familiar with the four percent rule, but in some ways, I think question mark that i'm buying myself a ten percent bond, percy, or a ten percent.

But so if I pay one hundred and fifty grand off, i'll save. It's like fourteen thousand, five hundred annually in p ni payments, ten percent ish. When would that make? Because the S.

N. P grows at ten percent with voluntier ity. But paying off my margin is at ten percent cash flow in my mind.

Do you want to expand your real stay portfolio?

I think that's a question that's in my head where if I were to pay this off, I think I could fire. And that's kind of like their bone's lean fire. We've all gone through a frugality phase, but I don't think that's the end.

All be, al, could I live off of that rental income? Yeah, but could I buy a Better family house of that? no. So that's kind of the predictive ment. I thought about saving in those index phones, use those to start a business or scale real state portfolio? Or do I just fire, quit my w to job and then spend a lot more time on building a business with forty hours a week to focus on that and just live on my rentals and get discretionary income from A A future business income?

So between the w two job that you currently have and the business that you would start if you fired, which one is you're calling .

definitely not my W T be for her job.

Do we knew IT into that?

I definitely feel called entrepreneur ship and that's kind of I stepped out in the real state investing call a half way entrepreneurship, and i'm very comfortable with that model in the volatility and that taking a rist to to a conference and i'm very much called to that. I'm very not CoOperative .

called all right. I think there's the answer .

then you know my answer, Andrew, is almost always to sole for flexibility, like which one gives me the most flexibility. Now it's funny if you would have told me your goal was to retire, stop working, that I would say pay off the loans now, because at that point is no longer a math problem. It's much more about a security issue.

And what's funny is a guy named west in our community wrote this book that I like a lot called what the happiest st to retirees know. And the happiest retirees of people that know the math. They understand, they get IT that this is sub optimal, but they still pay off the debt just to get rid of the mind space.

So even if IT wasn't ten percent versus ten percent, let's say IT was some of these retiree's that we talk to, pala that are four and a half percent, four percent, they still pay off the debt just so that they don't have this lurking in their brain recaptures adventure. But because that's not your goal, because it's entrepreneurship. I really like the fact that that money in the S M P five hundred is flexible money.

And even though that's probably too much of a roller coaster for me to want to go grab IT at x day, i'd like the fact that you can wear with the house. You know, we've joked about this before polar, you can go sell a bathroom, just just, just sell little piece of the property. And even if you could look at how long that would take to get your cash, if you could peel off the bathroom to get the cash, IT would still take you a few months.

There had to be a buyer. The Price is negotiable. Ly, you don't know what IT is. So I like the flexibility you've been in the S.

M. P. Although one minor counter argue ment to that is the access of a hillock. Have a hillock on my owner occupied duplex and I could pull fifty to one hundred out in cash today if I, if I needed .

to percent yeah well, just my argument back because that's a very popular way that I have access to all this death. Look at back at what happened in two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, when all the sudden that debt was no longer available. And it's funny because, okay, this is the former financial plan army.

But what probably won't happen to you is something bad will come along right after you go grab that debt. But when I was working with one hundred and twenty five families, there was always something bad happening to one of those families. IT always happened right after you use the headlock and grab that money.

And now your ability to repay, for whatever reason, to disability, whatever happens, you don't have the ability. So I prefer personally, on the order of Operations to stay away from debt as much as I can. And when I take leverage, I know exactly what that lever is and how i'm going to pay IT back. And even if my other stream of income to pay IT back goes away, that I have another way to attack IT. So I do like leverage, but my but this will be to stay away from the heat lock.

Yeah, I think that's why is a very thankful to day ram's. His whole program, he helped get me out a student loan dead and car dead. And so I still very much i'm tied to that even though a real state investor, I multiple mortgages.

But that's why currently i've decided to keep those index funds so I can just write the check for whatever I need to if it's come into a conference, buying a camera, a mac laptop for certain youtube channel, whatever that business expenses much either right to check. And I keep in the S. M. P verses like a money market birthday because I don't think I need to write a big check now. But if I ever need to all just even if it's a downmarket, i'll just sell and chase my calling.

I think you have the correct framing and that the framing of the question is w two versus this new business because in terms of the level of time that you're going to give to each, if you start a business that's going to require as much time as your w two, if not more typically it's onna require more and there is that expression you'll work sixty hours to avoid working forty right for somebody else.

Yeah.

exactly. yeah. You'll work sixty for yourself to avoid working forty for someone else, particularly in the beginning. That's true.

Sometimes the framing will be, oh, should I should I focus on rental properties or should I focus on starting some type of the online business? But those are very different things, right? So I think you've got the correct framing in terms of rental properties are more analogous to an index pd investment wherein said you wanted to start a youtube channel or you have recently started a youtube channel. Yes, starting a youtube channel is analogous to having a youtube job ah .

and like part of meat with respective feeling the calling. As I enjoy doing the remodels myself, I enjoy the real estate business but I almost like bombed the air pods that I can't work on IT all the time. I want to scale that income but i'm like I don't want to just like upgrade my gutters because i'm bored and start spending money or clean the gutters were before time.

It's just like to spend a saturday night. Haven't fun here.

absolutely. So it's like, how do I just like work more anything? I want to work more and grow that business because if I could work forty or sixty hours week on my real state business, I would anyone could argue I should start whole sAiling and trying to locate more deals. But I don't. And so like I just want to ditch the w to schedule and air code to be allowed to work on what I want to work on and lay the gas battle down, right?

Yeah, okay, yeah. Perfect, I think then optimized for whatever does that like at this point, you're not optimizing for even for money air, quote s money ah you're optimizing for leaving the constraints .

of the w 2 yeah .

calling yeah yeah。

How far under are you way from doing that now? Because one thing we see often, especially in the money nerd community, is one more years cn drama, right? We love certainty to your point, my point, we both love stay away from debt.

So we're like i'm just gonna stay with that a little bit longer. Until we realized too late that we spent too long. If I were to .

pay off these rentals, my rental cashflow with equal my day of income. So I just save seventy, one hundred percent of my day job income. This is like easy.

But i'm like, what am I going to do with another ten gram or one hundred grand? right? Part of the question at this conference is, should I put in my two c notice on monday and just put the gas pedal down on youtube and or whatever else I think I may do, because I can not, because I have the the plane laid out, but I need time. I want to go spend a thousand hours on IT.

You know, take your phone in with you, right? And make IT youtube content. You quitting your job?

Yes.

that'll go viral. Oh.

that'll go super White went there. There was a video that went viral of someone getting laid off.

Remember that that was like a few months ago. I feel like I see those on tiktok every third day.

Now yeah.

yeah. And you can you're watching their face .

while their bosses yeah doing like a mass layoff over zum yeah and it's tiktok depressing IT is so .

depressing .

yeah and speaking of getting depressed by watching too much tiktok, that actually leads to the next question that we're going to answer. Andrew, do you have any followers? Have we sufficiently answered you?

Are you feeling good? Yes, feeling great and much appreciated for your insights.

And but fantastic, fantastic. Well, thank you. We're going to take a quick break to hear from the sponsors who make this possible.

And when we return, we're going to hear a question from someone who is wondering how to avoid the inevitable depression that comes from watching too much tiktok. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you will get ten answers.

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Well, come back to afford anything, live everyone polite speaking and depressing. I used to work in a petty bottling play.

IT was so depressing.

Sorry, I had to. I was .

right there. She's like to take that out. No, no, no. We're keep in that in. We're keep in that in. Well, our next question comes from someone who, to the best of my knowledge, does not work at a pepsi bottling plant. His name is Chris.

I do not. Thank you. Hi power.

hi the .

question really is more of like a general question, not paci c to like money and numbers. But I have two children that are both jensie. They're twenty two and twenty four.

We often hear that genie isn't saving for retirement. They have a very dooming room outlook because inflation is very high, income is low. They can afford to buy a house.

They can afford to parents, just cost of living. Everything is very, very high. Having a conversation with my daughter, you know, SHE mentioned, well, dad, don't you know that my generation will never retire and IT makes me super sad.

And so, you know, we are just wondering, what are some of the things that we can do me, i'm genesco. But like the older generation, to really help the Younger generation understand that you one, yeah, you don't have to work until your fifty five and then die. But also it's not all doing gloom out there. How do you frame that?

First of all, thank you for asking that question because it's a really important one. A few things come to mind right away. So i'm a millennial, and I remember the same narrative happening fifteen years ago when the older millennial were in their early twenties.

That same script of the year is now two thousand and eight. We're graduating into a great recession. There are no jobs. We've graduated into the worst job market. We lived through nine eleven, and we lived through the dot converse and now were living through this.

And IT was there was a whole narrative that you would hear in the mainstream media around millennial have IT so tough and millennial aren't saving and millennial aren't investing. And in fact, I actually had to push back once we had a sponsor. They gave me this stupid, stupid ad script that I refused to read, where they wanted me to perpetuate.

That narrative of millennial aren't saving enough. I refuse to do IT because when you actually start digg into the data, that just wasn't true. First millennia, ls are not a monolith. And inside of this cohorts there are some what people used to call blue collar workers, non college educated labors, who are seeing jobs in their small towns decline, and that subset of millennial, and now that subset of genes e are seeing some very serious economic hardship, right?

So there is absolutely that cohorts, but among college educated mEllen, niels and now jen z, actually, when you dig into the da around millennial, that narrative of millennial s aren't investing, which we heard so much in the aftermath of the great recession, isn't true. And anyone who bought into that narrative, and therefore monkey see, monkey do like their four thought, why I don't really need to invest, because nobody in my peer cohort is investing. If you bought into that narrative, then you put yourself behind.

Because if you actually digg into that data, there are a whole bunch of millennial who are millionaires, first generation millionaire, that none of that money was handed down to them. There are the first generation of their family who's become millionaire. It's because in the aftermath of the great recession, guess what? That's the best time to start investing.

So yeah, you graduated from undergrad in two thousand and eight, got a job making fifty thousand dollars a year. You put four thousand dollars a year into your four one k starting in two thousand and nine. Yes, what? That money, that four thousand dollars that you put into your four one k in two thousand and nine has grown a long way.

And similarly, you move into a small condo with a roommate, put up a partition in the living room. So you are living in one half of the living room and and the other half is you're kind of using IT as a studio apartment. Sort of the thing with your roommate, you scraped together the down payment by working serving job on the side.

Yeah, that's how you bought a house in two thousand thirteen, two thousand and fourteen thousand and fifteen. Well, guess what? That condo that you bought with your serving and bar tanning money in two thousand and fifteen, that you paid the mortgage with roommates. Well that condo now has like doubled in value. If not doubled, its gone up significantly.

Look where the focus is the Apollo on your answer because I think what happens regardless. I mean, I shall have taken this question because i'm gensec as well. So what that wasn't funny was I .

was falling for no.

Easy, i'm sitting right idea. But I think that this just goes back to, Frankly, to Stephen coffee and I don't think that matters if you're jensie a millennial jeni that you know, wake him up and go and oh my god, i'm in my fifties. What have I done and i've done nothing right.

Doesn't matter what age you are, your answer. Polo was all on focusing on what you can control. We have just have a tendency as people, to quote Steven coffee, to look at pot three stuff.

There's three pots, pot three of things we can't control. We can influence patois, things like voting, where we can influence IT, but we don't have control. I can still put my my recommendation in for higher office or whatever IT is.

I can lean on people. But pot one is that stuff in your whole answer. Polo was all pot one. If I focus on, hey, the fact that i'm going to have a roommate, i'm going to do these things, it's it's actually pretty funny.

I had a conversation about this topic with two guys named john recently, john lana, who's the host of the art of allowances podcast, so he's always coaching parents to work with kids. And john a koh, whose written books like soundtracks and an a bunch of other hit books. And these guys, we had a wonderful discussion about our fierce Christian point, as a parent of listening to what your kids are playing in their head.

And to the degree that you can coat, these are my too big takeaway from this discussion. Take away. Number one was to the degree that you can coach them to help them think about little pee purpose, to focus on, hey, what really lights me up and what is going to make me feel more fulfilled in my life.

Because then we're not wasting our life. Worry about the void. You know, I mean, we're worried about.

I am never going to retire. Things are always going to be bad. It's horrible. I'm not living in the same life that people that graduated from college twenty years and you know, all of this stuff, i'm not living there.

I instead, i'm looking at the things that have lit me up in the past, and i'm expLoring those because we know those open doors. And then the second thing I got out that conversation was introducing them to voices that are not you. And this is actually, i've mess up polya a tonight.

I messed up so much every day. I mess up apparently gensec is not what I am cording you guys laughing? I see I mess up that. But one thing I think I got right was, to some degree, nick, on automatic kids, you know, they hear dad, and they, okay here, that's great. But to some degree, still roll your eyes as dad.

I introduce them to two authors I thought they'd really like at the time I was, iron Lorry broke, millennial and scotch, and to a step for life. And I got to tell you, introducing them to voices, giving them surround sound. That wasn't me, but was much more positive, focused, polar.

Back to your answer, what can I control? right? My daughter, she's want to earn lower y's biggest fans.

SHE just loves that. My son, I sort a god. polar. You've yeah.

Nick is Scott rench, yeah yeah.

Is a mini scotch. Ch, he is totally mini scot trench. And he, just when he read set for life that became his blueprint.

It's not dada's blueprint. You know real state I think is okay. No fancy under, you know, I think it's alright.

It's great. It's a way to get there. But it's not for me, but for my son is a great way to get there.

And now my kids are focusing on what they can control. So that would be my advice. We often talk about the thinking behind your thinking. Polo, yeah, the thinking about you're thinking was, as I heard you say, focusing on things that you can do not on the site. Gust.

right? Because so much of that dominant narrative, okay, there's this perception that you necessarily need to live in a single family home that you can buy entirely with one paycheck. It's a very restrictive way of looking at the situation well.

and it's also not the way we live anymore, right? The average person changes jobs every four point two years. There's a chance if they're not working on line point, they're gonna move. Why the whole I get invest in a house that I live in by myself with a White picket fence, and i'm going to sink a bunch of money into this primary place and then lose my eyes on IT because I move in four point two years or now.

right? exactly.

I think there's just a lot of fear of the unknown in people, and I think all of us learn differently visually auditable ly writing IT out, and for me, reading jail Collins path finders, or finding how did somebody do a bunch of random things, not even the thing that I want to do, but like directionally kind of close. And you just hear these stories of success.

And for me, I go to a real estate, invest me up locally, and I hear people doing things in real life. And I come to conference and I meet paul pant, who's doing these things in real life. So if if your kids could get around people that are doing the things and he doing, and maybe they need to read books like path finders or millionaire next store, or maybe they need to watch a youtube video more than a twenty second tiktok.

get tiktok yeah purchase set for life for both my kids and refuse to read IT. So yeah.

so they learn in their own ways and that's great. And i'm not going to try to apply the best way that they learn. Then another thing too, I think, kinda speak here, small pea purpose, but like faith is a big part of my life. And so I think finding a bigger purpose in their own life and someone getting outside of themselves in some fashion that's a good fit for them, I think can be important to and help.

Andrew, you totally nailed IT, but because worth this wonderful conference fin. Kn, and paul, you know, before I joined this community, I would have never thought that I would have done any of the bad asked stuff that i've done since then. I sold my house.

I sold all my possessions. I became a no mad. I feel I figured out that I hated IT. I wouldn't never done any of those things. Tried out any that if IT wasn't for inspiring people like you guys and one hundred percent under get yourself around people that can inspire you to push the barriers back that are between .

your ears yeah, i've invited my kids to events like can fly to meet others know there's twenty some things there and I want to try to help them understand that it's not just no, they are. We say it's just a bunch of old White I talking about money and that's not what IT is. It's so diverse. There's all walks of life, all ages like I want to somehow try to communicate to the gensys out there too, that you can do this no matter where you come from or how old you are.

So I wonder if part of the question is how do you encourage your kids to have sources of information .

that are not tiktok? Number one cause yeah.

there's a great quote from the sympson. I find a there's a lot of wisdom on the symptoms there. So much they .

have four shadow, so many things that happen right like it's so crazy.

It's incredible. But there's a wonderful quote from a recent episode of the sympson where lisa is reading a book and bar looks fatter and goes lisa put that book down and pick up a phone. I love IT and IT is hard because to some .

degree you're dad and so you get the eyebrow right and all three of us on this talk with the two johns, which sounds weird me in the two Jones, they also talked about sharing your fears with them, like just violent. Here's what i'm afraid of when IT comes to my next move. Sharing your entrepreneur spirit because you're an entrepreneur guy like the things that you're doing and sharing that.

And then when they get in your car, instead of having heavy metal music on, have on a podcast, you know, I mean, i've done that trick of my kids too. I would put in an inspirational podcast that I know they're gonna ve. That i've heard one hundred times, and I I mayor may not have put IT exactly to the spot that I want to them to here not saying I did IT, but I might have am like, well, that we are decade mine right now. It's like someone know .

you're trying to like get a two and you're sleep or .

something this might apply unique.

That's weird. But I think .

we all need a little empowers and lifting up and encouragement and mentorship and whether jx or A Z.

So ask if you can maybe as a holiday gift to, you know, there are so many inspiring coaches or sessions with coaches that you might be able to buy like, I would get their buy in first. Hey, if I bought your session, what? OK? Yeah, well.

there you go. exclusive.

nice.

But if I got a session, but with x person, would you like that? And show me some videos that that'd be a cool. yeah. Well, again.

great feedback from all of you here. I really appreciate IT way.

I've got one more. I've got one more because I was thinking about, was that your daughter who said, dad, don't you know that my generation is not going to retire? But what's interesting to me about that comment is that if you believe that you will never retire, then you won't work towards retirement.

You won't save towards retirement because you believe that it's impossible. And therefore, the belief that it's impossible starts to become a self fulfilling profession. And so I think one of the ways to break out of that is to have a some type of financial goal, some smaller and more immediate financial goal, that he thinks is impossible, that in a short period of time can be demonstrated as possible.

So that kind of goes on the the day rim, the philosophy of small winds, Andrew, is, you know, because you said you like a MC, one of the things, and I know he's a controversial figure for a variety of reasons, but one of the things that he really nailed is the psychological benefit of having a small win up front. The philosophy, i'm just sing this for the sake of the the wider audience. The philosophy that he teaches is called a debt snowball.

Rather than listing your debts in order of their interest rate from highest interest to lowest interest, you list your debts in order of their size from smallest dead to largest debt. And so you might have a very small debt of a hundred dollars, for example. cool.

Maybe it's a zero percent interest that, right? Maybe it's an interest free debt from your sister for one hundred box, but you pay that one off first. P yeah, you wipe IT out just so you get the psychological Victory of like, hey, I did that.

And so i'm trying to think of what that analog would be in terms of our retirement context because that sounds to me, Chris, like what your daughter needs is the psychological Victory. Here's the thing that I thought was impossible or that I thought was really difficult a financial goal, but i've did IT. And if I can do this thing, then maybe I can do other big things.

So maybe that would be a backpacking through year for two weeks or maybe get some more cheaper like backpacking through, oh, argentina dollar exchange rate goes really far in argentina right now, you know. But traveling through argentina for two weeks, IT feels like a really big goal. But if he can save up her own money with your help, with your guidance, not your financial help, but with your wisdom, if he can save up her own money and pay for that trip herself, that's a financial Victory. And you can do that.

What else can you do? I like IT.

I like IT. I think that's great advice, just like we've all heard of the downward spiral. I think there's also an upward spiral. So like dave ramsey talks about a thousand dollar emergency fun that used to be unattainable for me.

But then I realize I like I can save one hundred dollars this month, and after ten relatively short month, will have a thousand dollars, and then after another ten months, and I have two thousand dollars, and I was like, oh, I can actually save thousands of dollars. And so when you break IT up, hut elephant, one by day, the time. And so how do what whatever her goal may be, whether there is backpacking or whatever, you you can likely break that down in the bite size pieces yeah I think .

establishing that that small wind up front. But also your point, pola is helping remove that negative self talk that you start to believe for yourself. right? right? yeah.

So i'll share this funny story with Kelly. So she's basically been driving for door dash. And sometimes you can make thirty five box an hour, right, depending.

And I remember when you first started driving, I I was mentioned to them like, yeah, you're ten ninety nine if you going have to pay your own taxes. So it's smart to, like, set aside some money for taxes. And SHE was over the other night, and SHE was super proud of her self.

SHE was pulling money out in cash and saving IT for taxes. And I was like, that's really great. But you know, we could find like a high yellow savings account, there's something to put that money in.

And IT brought her to tears. I felt so bad. No.

yes, he thought he was doing IT wrong.

And I doing IT wrong, just you probably shouldn't just keep IT in cash in your bedroom. You can put IT somewhere IT was good. You trying, you know, I felt so bad. I was like, i'm sorry like IT, that's not my intention wasn't to make you feel bad.

Yeah you like you a super site?

I was surprised to that you can make thirty five box and ARM for peak time. Yeah yeah.

And that's why I, Chris, broader food today.

I think a lot of folks default, including Younger people that maybe on average have less information of whatever field they're studying purse. It's easy to get overwhelming, whether in college studying personal finance or or to trying to scale up your business by real estate portfolio like there's always the Jones is to to chase somebody as soon as bigger, bad, Better than you are. And so IT is easier to get overwhelmed.

That's a dangerous, a tiktok not cut off. But but holy cow.

that's all IT is yet .

you're seeing everybody's best moment or they're pretend best moment. So you watch twenty these videos of people supposedly doing Better than you are and you immediately .

feel think well and I didn't go down this path, but that's the thing too. Like I mean, both my kids twenty two and twenty four, they talk about, well, dad is just so much harder than when you were my age. And to a point they are correct, right? So for instance, when I was their age, I bought my first house.

When I was twenty, my house was fifty two thousand dollars. My first job, right that I got out of college, I I went to a two year vocational school. My first job, I was making thirty eight thousand dollars a year.

So again, you're buying a fifty two thousand and our house making thirty eight grand. Now your house is going to be four times that, right? And you're not going to be making percentage wise, you're going to be making a lot less than what you could afford. So I get the chAllenge. But still there are ways to make IT work like you say about like get a roommates door or something .

right was how hack we .

talked about this pola on a recent Stacy Benjamin episode. U N O G came back strongly. And because I brought up what what crisis daughter brought up, which is IT is harder.

And you look at the numbers and you're like, yes, but you've never also had as many opportunities. Love can work online. I couldn't work online.

You can find a new job just by bombing bomb. I've a new income source. I got a new income opportunity.

They still ring light at target. Now I could be huge. Yeah, that what makes me whole my eyes. But you know, I mean, you N L G both push back and went, yeah, art. But there are a ton more ways to make money than they were in.

Yeah, when you are buying your first house, Jordan didn't exist. That is true, right? And there is a guy by the name of nick loper.

He's a previous guest on this podcast. He's also here at the same conference. He broke down when IT comes to sid houssas.

He's like, you can really classify these. There are gig economy jobs like door dash where you have low barriers to entry. You've got a lot of flexibility.

So it's a good thing to do if you're balancing IT with going to school or your home from school on Christmas break, you can fit IT into the margins of your life as you're focusing on something else. So what's positive about IT is the flexibility, but what's negative about IT is because IT has liberians to entry. IT also has relatively lower income, lower outside, right?

That's one type of side hostel. But then there are also side holes where you are developing some type of a product or service and there's a longer ramp up. You know you're not necessarily going to be making money right away.

Andrews, as you've discovered, as you're in the process of starting an online business, you're not necessarily going to be making money right away, but there's unlimited upside to IT. And so you can eventually be making way more money than you currently do at your w to job. And then eventually, you can hire a team of full time employees.

You give them health insurance, you give them retirement benefits, you give them paid time off like you become a business owner. And when you were Young Chris, when you were twenty, you couldn't do that unless you had a lot of upfront capital. If you wanted to start a business back when you were your kids age, you needed to open a brick motor location. And that, man, you needed a ton of upfront capital. The cost of entrepreneur ship has never been lowered.

I like that. So true. Yeah, i'll remember to say that to my kids.

You could queue up the podcast to the exact right spot.

Right when they get the car, right when they get in the car.

And it's weird, weird.

I think we all need to walk around costco and just like eat all the free samples and like figure out what's a good fit for your daughter because we're supposed to pick our lifetime calling at eight, sixteen, seventeen and eighteen. I knew nothing of what's the next fifty to eighty years of my life was gonna like. I still have no idea.

So, you know, it's like, what am I going to be doing at age fifty? Who knows that? And so like your daughters are just at that age of just getting out into the world, and they need to just gather experience and be hungry and find whatever aven source is appropriate for them to find their costco, to walk around and take food samples to figure out what do they want to do.

And and you have to let them know that their self expectation of themselves to, I need to have IT all figured out. I need to have my lifetime career picked out perfectly at twenty two, is like we had mentioned earlier, folks change jobs every five years or so. My ground was a cop in many apps, twenty five years that said, and that's not my career and that's okay. That's just not how the world works. This gig economy, what did you think .

you are going to do when you were like, eighteen, eighteen.

twenty years old? So I loved writing some bills in minnesota. So I was going to work for players and design snowmobiles.

So I want to. Mechanical engineering school got an item, lis for an internship. heartbreak. And then I started working at an oil refine ery, which was like, super cool in ways, but I would have to work these big shutdown one seven days week, thirteen hour days.

And there was a point where I wanted to go see my grandma, who is dying of cancer, and I wasn't allowed to cause. I had to work, so i'd going like here for a half an hour, you know, half asleep. I were twenty seven days straight to thirteen hour days.

I was like, I just wanted like go hanging off my grammar for like four hours and like sit on the party, whatever and like he didn't die like that immediate time. But afterwards of work in seven weeks straight thirteen hour days, I got like a thirty five hundred dollar bonus, our salary starting pay zero dollars an hour for overtime work in ninety six hour weeks and I was like, i'd make more money at mcDonald's, literally. And I was like, would you find me smart or dumb to tell you you gonna work twelve hours in my Donald every other day? I, you'd call me dumb because you're right and I was like, but I come here and I would like, die a through refinery for a less than mcDonald I was like, it's a lot i'd rather listen in podcast and foot burgers because I think i've get, you know like what you get good experience I like.

yeah yeah. So pola, you didn't realize that both of us are from many athletes.

I do not realize that.

right?

The meeting to the pocket.

I know. Do you know what you Better? So when I was eighteen, my hair was down to here, and I was gonna in a metal band for the rest of my life. That clearly didn't happen, so you never know.

Yeah, you can maybe give your daughters and encouragement like i'm not a rockstar, but I thought I was going to be here you go clearly.

you can really stay just in a different way.

And I love you, joe.

So you ended up not becoming a all star.

I did not.

But for your kids today, if one of them had aspirations of being a musician, think of the opportunities that they have that you didn't think of. Let's say, one of your kids was really into playing guitar, right? All of the ways that you could make money online around teaching guitar or absolutely one hundred percent there.

Beyond tiktok there would be an instagram theyd, have a youtube channel. They're be so emerge they'd be doing .

all of the things right.

It's possible for yeah exactly.

They d likely even believe that too. Yeah.

I mean, I just think if one of your kids wanted to be a heavy metal rockstar, they could, I think, speaking probabilistic ally, there is a much higher likelihood that they would be able to earn a full time living as a heavy medal musician because of all of those opportunities that are available to them. So I might talk to them about that they're living in this era of opportunity that you just didn't have.

It's interesting polo, because as you're talking, i'm thinking about also where's the emphasis if the emphasis is i'm never gonna retire that i'm thinking way, way, way out. What I like about that answer, again, thinking about the thinking, is pulling IT back to let's save for that, but let's let a go. Besides saving for IT, let's get rid of a little bit of uncertainty by putting some money toward this person.

I'm going to be a long time in the future, but let's spend most of our time thinking, what am I gonna today? What am I gonna do today right now? Because it's easy to freak out thinking about the future.

I'm listening to a book. I know, Chris, that you likes drink to strengths to strength up, listening to strength to strength. Everybody's afraid to die, and you can focus on that a lot.

I have a family member who spend zero time living because they spend so much time worried about dying. And I think that that's in a lot of ways the same thing here. I'm so free thought about the future. I'm never gona retire that i'm not thinking about today and what likes to be up right now.

So when you say they spend zero time living because there's always worried about dying, in what action wait does that manifest? We'll hear the answer to that question right after this break. You know, what I love about the weather turning cooler is that it's sweater weather.

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When you say they spend zero time living because there's always worried about dying, in what action? Wait does that manifest?

They truly spend a lot of time ruminating about the unknown of what if? What if I could die tomorrow? I could die.

What if I die tomorrow? Why would I go to this thing? I can call that thing.

What if something bad happens and I die? What if I do this action and some bad person comes along and I could die? You know, IT is truly a big time phobia. You got to switch .

the mindset to what if something incredible happens? What if something amazing happens?

Yeah, yeah. There's this asell saying of whether you believe you, you can or you can't. You're right. I think IT a little.

I don't know .

who was somebody that .

I I think I think anger said that .

yeah thanks. I'm trying to look IT up, but I still .

don't have wifi. Yeah I think we all need confidence builders and we all need a just saying, speaking to myself, but like we all need to see real life examples and have these conversations. You need to look somebody in the eyes and talk to them, listen to their story and do some sort of big brother mentorship approach. I just feel like that is it's not done often and enough. But when you do that, when somebody is your big brother metaphorically and holds your hand and can walk you through that and it's worth paying somebody for that like I used to be very frugal and and all financial advisers to come to money but you just don't know what you don't know yeah.

I mean, professionals have coaches all the time. Look at athletes, right? They'll have seven different coaches for different things.

right? Kobe bryant was excEllent at basketball in many ways. We also shot a thousand, three, three everyday and did one more practice in the average N.

B. A player did every single day. And that all compounds widely over decades. So I think for is great in many ways, but I think it's focused on almost too much. And like raising your income has way more impact potential.

And to your daughters point, what happens if I can never retire in age sixty to one hundred and a sub optimus, like what happens at age twenty to sixty years of optimal and you spend your time live in a life you're not passionate about or in any just feel like you wasted your time through arguably the best years of your life. So I think that's a worse worse down side to avoid is like what and then let the then your life figure itself out to some degree still be proactive. But like don't let the tail .

wing that are sure absolutely.

Oh, and joe, thank you for looking IT up. IT was Henry ford who said that? Yes.

yes. Who also said, you can have any color car you want as long as this black.

Did he also say that? Did say that nice?

Yes, because they we're going na make that assembly line go. And at the time the model a they cranking .

about the model, interesting OK I did not know. welcome. wow. Well, thanks to both of you for joining us and for this amazing discussion and anti thank you.

Thank you for having yeah .

thanks for having us and all the work you've done over the years.

You've held a lot of people. Ah thank you. Absolutely thank you. Thank you and thanks to everyone who is listening. This is the afford anything podcast.

And we also want to give thanks to lc attorney dot com for sponsoring life podcasting at fin on twenty four and to everyone listening for being part of this community. Thank you. If you enjoy today's episode, please do three things.

Number one, share IT with your friend's family, neighbors, colleagues, enemies, friends. Share with people you like, people you don't like, people you are kind of passive aggressive with. Share IT with everyone in your life because that is the number one way joe is losing IT right now across the table from me.

I just think could enemy, no matter, no matter who they are, just put afford anything on in the .

car and then they get in.

look at this is for anything. So who knew?

Share with the genie folks for sure.

So that's the number one thing you can do to convince ce jensie to stop getting their financial advice from tiktok. So that's number one. Number two, subsequent to the newsletter, afford anything dot com flash newsletter. And number three, follow this podcast on your favorite podcast playing APP, including apple podcasts and spotify, and find us on youtube as well. We're growing our youtube footprint, and it's much Better than tiktok.

wow. Yeah, you'll learn .

more in .

ten minutes than twenty seconds. Yeah.

exactly. Thanks to all of you. This is the afford anything podcast. My name's polar pants.

I'm sure i'll see. Hi.

and i'm Chris.

I'm anger and .

we'll meet you in the next episode.

We both love staying away from debt. So we're like i'm just going to stay with a little bit longer until we realized too late that we spent too long.

So my little plug meet up tomorrow is the one more years syndrome made up wow. So yeah.

I pretty much.

well well, by the time this air, this episode is air ring in, like maybe a month from now.

Yes, so is a great .

me up tomorrow.

Tomorrow was a fantastic time.