Coco Jones on Sampling Britney Spears — and Making the Year's Best R&B Album
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I'm Brian Hyatt. This is Rolling Stone Music Now. I'm here today with an artist who's had a really unique journey to her debut album, the great R&B and pop singer Coco Jones. As we'll discuss, she started out as a Disney-affiliated child star, eventually recorded the incredible 2022 single ICU, and now at last has that really enjoyable debut album. She's

She's also very much still an actress as well with a starring role on Peacock's Bell Air, among other projects. Thanks so much for being here. Yes. Thank you for having me. So you have a new album coming out. It will be out when people hear this and it's called Why Not More. It's such a strong album. It lives up to kind of what I was hoping for ever since I heard I See You, which first of all, that's such a great song that,

that there's kind of a challenge in living up to such a great song. To take a step back, it's been an incredible journey to this album. And I love your story. You know, you've been in this industry since, how old were you? 12. 12. And now here's the album. What does it mean to you to finally be at this point? I think I'm really proud of myself, honestly. I'm proud of like,

pushing through, like not having the answers and really searching for myself to understand me and to find the inner confidence to be able to create an album and be proud of it. The risks that it takes to like make creative choices, possibly be wrong, you know, to put things out there and

to have them be perceived, it all takes a like inner confidence of like knowing yourself. And I'm really proud that I pushed past all of the uncertainty to find any type of certainty to the point where I'm, you know, saying, hey, this is my album. I'm proud of this. This is this version of me. Whoever I turn into after this, who knows? But here we are. And I love what I've done so far. Now, the title track, Why Not More, obviously has a really cool reggae feel. I love the horns, which are really unexpected. Tell

Tell me about, first of all, about putting that song together, how it came together, and second of all, why it seemed like the right title, the right title track. So Why Not More came together. Me and London on the track have built a great dynamic and we have really great chemistry. And that's so crucial when you're working on an album because it's like,

sort of like, okay, right now we are in not a time crunch, but like, let's be very intentional here. So I think me and London, we can do that really well because we've worked together. He understands me. I understand him. And we kind of just wanted to do something new, but like similar. Like, I feel like reggae is something that I've never done, but I'm always giving you those R&B feels. So I was like basically singing it super R&B on this reggae track and kind of showing people like, hey, you love me for this version of singing, but I'm

I sonically want to play around, you know, so is that cool? And kind of leaning into that, let's just try things that feel authentic to me instead of worrying about doing this formula that I'm sure will work and that I know people want from me. I don't know what anyone wants from me. I'm learning what I want for myself. So that was kind of just like the vibe. Let's just have fun and play around. And the title became Why Not More because...

It just stuck out to me so much. I was writing with Pooh Bear who, you know, hello. And we were going through titles. You know, you come into the room with titles and ideas and he said, why not more? And I looked up at him like, that is exactly how I feel about myself. I want to do these things. And I keep putting myself in this box of like, I should just go with what I know and let's not do. But I asked myself, why not? And it kind of led to that song being what it is. And then inspiring the whole through line of my creation process. So is it more directions? Yeah.

just more in your life more or is it all of that? What is the more really to you? I would say if it's specifically more directions, because right now I feel like I'm still a baby in this, like my first album ever compared to like women that are in my category and that I look up to, they have several albums, several projects, Sabrina Carpenter. I mean, hello. So right now I feel like direction wise, I want to show people, Hey,

I am inspired by traditional R&B. I do that sometimes, but I also am a R&B pop girl. I mean, I come from Disney Channel. I sang the most bubblegum pop song you've ever heard, but I lived for it. So that's a part of me too. I have my mom's influences and I have my own influences and there are a lot of different things. So this is me. And I kind of want to show people direction wise. These are the things I like to do. So as you get to know me more, as I get to know myself more, we're not all surprised when I'm doing things sonically that are different from ICU. Right. Right.

That makes sense. And in general, on this record, you know, as I said, I hear stuff for people who love the ICU. And then it's also, hey, you love the ICU, but I'm going further. Why not more? Yes, exactly. And it's not like, bye, ICU. Nice meeting you. It's like, hey, this is one side of me and you'll get that too on the album.

But here's this other side of me. What do you think? And here's this side too. Was that too much? And if it was, tell me why. Because also I feel like a scientist right now. I feel like I'm coming up with this formula that one day will be my thing. You know how like SZA has her thing. Oh, she writes in cursive. She sings like that. But that's her SZA thing. Beyonce is her thing. You know, like if you hear a song, you're like, oh, that's a Beyonce song right there. Or like, oh, she's giving Beyonce.

I want my thing. So I'm in like this testing formula phase of my life and it'll evolve into like, oh, that's Coco's thing. But I got to start somewhere. Which of the tracks is the whole album your thing or are there tracks where you zoom in and be like, this is really my thing? You know what? Depending on the day, it's a zoom in and I'm like, this is really me. And then the next day I'm like, who dat?

Like it's just a completely different version of me depending on my state of mind. So that's why I feel like gotta be the whole album because I am not just one thing as a personality. I have like seven personalities. So I have a song that goes for all of them. What's the first germ? Where does it start? Does it start with a beat? Does it start with a melody? How do you work with London and with Pooh Bear? How does that kind of

come together? I think it starts in a really, really wide, wide scale. Like, oh, you're just all over the place with it. You're just all over it. And then you have a lot of songs and there starts to be certain things that you, you can't look past. Like, man, that was something right there. And then you get a couple more and then you get a couple more and then you're like, okay, these are some songs that are really strong. Let's start tightening up and being like,

what is the reason why these all feel so good? Can we make songs that feel similar? Okay. And then you start doing that and then you're like, okay, now there's just a few gaps. And what, what can we do to fill in those gaps? You don't have a ballad yet. Okay. We can be intentional. We can get ballads or like, you know how it goes. You just find the elements that are missing in this body of work that you just feel like is really strong.

And then for me, once I had that, actually the album was supposed to come out and it got delayed. And so then my next thing was, okay, now I have all this time. What can I be? What can I do even better? Is there anything that I could do to out love these songs? And that to me was like a blessing in disguise because that's where Taste and several other songs that are on the album were born. The first thing that was created was

That's tough to say, but if I had to guess, well, here we go. Yeah. Yeah.

Here We Go was the first single. It was definitely like the first of, okay, this is all for this new project. That feeling that I really felt at that time was, I just want to make something urgent. Like, I want to do something urgent, but I don't want to steer too far away from what people have discovered of me and learned about me and what they correlate me to. So what's that? And that was Here We Go. What was going on in your life as you were working on these songs that you wanted to capture, if anything?

I was figuring myself out. You know, I had made a whole project before this and I did not know myself at all. I didn't know what was going to work and I didn't want to choose. I was very like, how the hell did I get here again? I'm signed again. I have a team again. I have momentum again. I have people care again. How do I not mess this up? Everyone else decide for me because I can't risk it, you know?

And so this entire process was about learning myself and asking myself the hard questions and pushing myself to do things that were scary. You know, I feel like I'm such a type A person that sometimes I really want to go in the studio and just make sure that I leave with a finished product that is worth something. But that's not always how it goes, you know? So giving myself the freedom to like try something new that doesn't guarantee a song that'll make the cut and be amazing.

But at least I leaned over there and I saw what it was like and see how it felt. So it was a lot of discovering myself. You talked about kind of loving the bubblegum side. And we do hear that on the record. It's interesting because when you did that great sort of confessional video where, you know, what really happened. Yeah. You talked about everything that happened with your old record, Hollywood Records, right? And how...

basically they were pushing you to be something that you wanted. I think maybe people might listen to and assume they were trying to make you too pop and that's not what you wanted. I'm curious if that was a misunderstanding. I feel like they were trying to make me work, you know, and they had a formula that had worked and I didn't blame them for doing what they know. If it ain't work, don't fix it, you know? And typically it's like there's a TV show and you put the music behind that TV show.

And then the music has its own thing, you know? And so it's kind of like this formula that worked. I mean, it did for so many people. I think for me, I couldn't be pop all the way because my vocals were freaking so soulful that it just wasn't pop. It was like R&B pop. And I think that's where we both kind of had to learn

what do we do with this? You know, what do I do with this? I can make a song that was supposed to be a Demi Lovato camp rock into Aretha Franklin, you know? So what, what do I do with that? I mean, that sounds amazing to me. I mean, I wish we could have heard more of that. That's hilarious. No, I literally listened to old demos like, dang girl, you was not letting up. I was giving it everything I literally had, but yeah. So I think it was kind of like, okay, we don't know what to do with this. And I'm freaking 14. I'm like, I don't know what to do with this.

let me go and let me figure out what to do with my voice, you know? And then, um, and, and, and for me, I think that was what needed to happen because I also made so many connections with amazing producers that, um, I still would work with. And so I got to develop my sound freely with no ties, with no ownership, with all of my, all of my name back to myself.

Everything came back to me and it was like a blessing in disguise. You obviously you're splitting your time very successfully between music and acting. Is that how you see your career? That is always going to be both. Yeah, that is how I see my career. I'm like, oh, definitely giving no vacation because wow, that everything takes so much time. Gosh. But I do respect that.

acting so much. And I've also invested a lot of my time in that world as well that I wouldn't want that muscle to completely not be used ever. So yeah, I mean, it might be like small things every year or depending on where I'm at in my album cycle, it might be, that might be my acting year. But I do want to try to balance them both. People don't think about it, but there are times when it can reoccur.

really conflict. I mean, you've got a tour and there might be, you know, this amazing role and you've got a tour booked and it's like, there's actual kind of torture there. You have to decide. Oh, literally make hard decisions. So what's that like? Hard. And I would be mad as hell sometimes because I love acting, but I need music. I need it. It's a part of my identity. So when I would be filming Bel Air and I would have to pass on like festivals and concerts, I would literally mourn.

Mourn. But I think that, you know, everything comes with a price and I'm not going to sit here and complain like, oh, no, my TV show. So I can't sing. Shut up, girl. But it did hurt. I'm not going to hold. But I think also I've gotten to have such a wider fan base because of acting that I will never act like that's not important. Some people discover my music because of Hillary. Like, hello. Oh, thank you so much to Bel Air. But I did get to go on my first tour. We pulled it together. So last minute because of the strike.

So the tour happened like literally in the blink of an eye and shout out to my team for making it happen. But yeah, it definitely is like you can only focus your energy on one thing at a time. It is tricky, but it sounds like it's singing is going to win out when it comes to if it's a competition. It sounds like if it's a competition, like, yeah. Why is there a competition? I don't know. But singing will win. I mean, I hate to say it, but I think it's always been, OK, how do I sing?

have jobs that keep me here in LA and pay me money for rent while I figure out this music thing, you know? Because music is not like, hey, let me apply for this job. I'd like to be a singer. Here's my resume. It's like, oh, I just met somebody who knows somebody and how the hell and what the heck was that? It's networking. It's opportunity. It's luck. It's blessings from God. It's miracles. And acting is a little bit more tangible. You can literally go to agencies and you can research things. And so I kind of looked at acting like my nine to five. Yeah.

Yeah. And music is like my dream job. And then they grew into like both. I'm morphing of both.

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A lot of people can be like, you know, when you were 12 years old, what did you wish you could be? But with you, you can't do that because you already were doing it. But from that early moment, were you thinking acting and music? Was that kind of the two together? I mean, in the early moments, I didn't really know how specific it could get. I didn't even really know you could get paid to sing. I just thought that Miley and Hannah Montana, like that was just all magic. And I didn't even know those were real people. But I just wanted that feeling, too. So, yeah.

I never thought of it like, yeah, I want to be an actor and a singer. I just was like, I want to be a star, whatever that means. Wow. Well, worked out, I guess. But you have talked about your mom as a huge part of your life, a huge influence, obviously, a huge part of your musical influences. What music did she introduce you to? And how did that kind of factor into the development of your singing style? Well, yes. When you're a kid, you don't know...

what's going on. You just learn songs that your parents know, honestly, truly. Right. It can be a little bit like brainwashing, let's face it. I mean, that's real. Yeah. Sometimes that's very real. Yeah. I think my mom taught me a lot about performing and stage presence and confidence. And honestly, I think my mom, she had sang background for a couple of artists, but she'd also done pageants. And so I think she had like

whatever knowledge she had from her days of being on the stage to any degree was really like elevated through me. You know, I think that was such a blessing in disguise for her to have any of those experiences. Also, my mom is very brutally honest. She would literally tell me, she was like, Ooh, that performance was so boring. She was like, that note was flat. You heard that, right? I'm like, yes, thank you. Thank you so much. But I loved that honesty and like that brutal honesty. And that's what I always tell my team. Like guys, what is it? Like, tell me the hard truth because I'm, that's what I'm used to. But she taught me, I read the Franklin, um,

Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston. I mean, she would pick the most challenging songs for me. And I'd be like, seriously, why? This is the hardest song I've ever heard. And she was like, well, if you can sing this, you can sing anything. Yeah. So it wasn't just she's playing it in the background. She's playing it and then she's like, sing this. She's printing out the lyrics and she's staring at me like, go ahead. And she's like pausing the music when it's not real, when she doesn't feel it connecting. She was like, literally my army sergeant. Wow. Shout out to mom.

So you're learning the runs. You're learning all of that. Yeah. Absolutely. This is when you're like 10 or what? Probably nine, nine, 10. Yeah. I think you sang something in kindergarten, God bless America or something at kindergarten graduation or something like that. Um, I did definitely sing. Yeah. I don't know if I remember what exactly I sang. That's probably right though. But yeah. And that's, what's so interesting is people who can really sing more.

Mariah in her book says she would sing when she was four years old and people would like fall over on the street. So it's like, if you can really sing, you can, a lot of times it's there from the beginning. So it was there for you. Yes. I feel like singing chose me. I was just like you said about Mariah, a little kid, barely able to articulate words, but I could sing. And my mom had a friend who was a violinist who came over one time. I had to be like two or three and I was singing Barney in the background. And the violinist friend literally stopped by mom and just listened to me. And she was like, your baby has a perfect ear.

She's hearing the notes perfectly. So I think it chose me. Like God zapped me with, with the singing abilities. Thanks God. So what was most impactful, most challenging of those early songs that you were learning and then continuing on learning like that?

I think what was most challenging was probably not singing, but singing for small amounts of people. Because, you know, you'd go into a room and it'd be four executives who do not care about you at all and who are really like ready to go. Like they've seen 80,000 kids at this point and you've got to make a difference. And I knew that was what was expected of me. And it just takes a lot of being fearless. So my mom had the signal. We would be in a meeting or an audition or whatever, and she would like grab her earring. And I knew that meant that.

that it was time for me to sing. So I'd have to go, hey, can I sing for you guys? Do you mind if I sing for y'all? And sometimes they'd be like, oh, we're in a rush and I would have to sing anyway. Like no fear was allowed, you know? And you had to really love it to be able to do that because that's uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. What would you, what was like your go-to song? What would you break into back then? For five long years. Oh, wow. Yeah. I thought that you were my man. Literally Chain of Fools. Yeah.

Yeah. Amazing. Crazy. Yeah. Crazy. Like a nine, 10 year old, whatever. Yeah. And I mean, belting it's 9am. I'm in your office. The people are looking through the glass mirrors, like what's going on. I'm over there giving it my all. Your first thing was like this Disney radio competition thing. Next big thing. Yeah. Yeah. What was the process behind that? And what was that like? Crazy story. I mean, this is like where miracles and where God comes into play because we didn't know what was going on, but

I had done talent competitions around my city in Nashville, and this one judge really, really believed in me. I had won the kids competition, and then I won the adult competition. And he was like, I'm going to work with you for free. Like, for how long it takes, I'm going to work with you. His name's Rob Galbraith. Hey, Rob. But we would work in his studio, and it's the type of recording where you get the one take. There's no punching any lines. Right. So I would have to sing songs all the way through. And it taught me, like...

I'm so serious when I go in the studio because like there was no redo there was no auto-tune there was none of that we made this demo tape and I gave it to an executive at this Disney casting call you know one of those newspaper ads you're okay give me a star of course I went there and I was like listen to my album my mom printed it out on her windows pc burned the cd and and I think a couple years later we got a call actually through my producer that had worked with me and it was for a next big thing and they wanted me to come and be on the show and

And that led to the whole thing being on the channel and everything was a direct line. Well, you know, once you are in front of the Disney staff and they really like you, you start to be a part of the people that they send auditions to. And then there was probably a couple of years where I didn't get anything because my acting was trash, trash, so bad. Those auditions are like cringe to watch. But then I started to get a little better and I would get like little roles. And then that led to like guest stars, which led to Let It Shine, the movie that really like

that it offered me. Yeah. And you said there was supposed to be a Let It Shine 2 and eventually in there, that's when you started to, you were doing great, but you started to feel like you were hitting barriers, I guess. I think at that time I could never fully process what was going on because it was so my dream. I was living my little dream. Um, and then, you know, once I did the movie, I was signed. And so I was, I was doing shows. I was performing my music. I had fans who knew my songs. It was like, I don't even know how I felt grounded to the ground. Um,

So at that time, what I was told was that there was it was supposed to be a continuation and things like that. But I feel like what happened was it was hard to get people to commit because I was also super young. But Tyler was super old and he had it not old in a bad way, like grown mature where he had his own things going on. And so I feel like it just was one of those things that it just didn't work out. And I'm glad that it happened.

It happened the way it did. You had a song called the holla at the DJ. I like that song. Thanks. It's very powerful. I'm like, geez, this is an intense song for like a 12 year old. I'm making trouble, turn it up.

You really were 12 when you made that song. Yeah, hilarious. Yeah, it's so crazy that that Disney impact has such a hold on people. I think it's the nostalgia of it all, you know, because you were a kid and there was just no cares in the world. But it's impressive to me to go places, I mean, out the country.

And people will say, holler at the DJ though. So let it shine. Like, I'm like, wow. I mean, I'm super grateful. I didn't know at the time that it would leave the mark that it did. Would you ever play it live? Do you play live? It depends. Sometimes I give a little sweet treat to the crowd and I just sing a little acapella. Yeah.

Yeah, eventually you do hit the point. I can't tell you how many incredibly talented people who become superstars who then have a story about being dropped. It's so crazy to me because labels know that how many stories there are of this artist became a superstar, but we dropped them. And yet they do it over and over again. And it happened to you. Well, you know what? This is where I feel like I had to learn. I can't take it personal. I can't equate being hired to my self-worth and to being talented because some of it is just music.

business. Some of it is business. It has nothing to do with you or how much you work hard. It's numbers. It's somebody who's ever the boss. It's all these different things that go into play. So you can't take it personal. And I also think that like you got to commit as a label to developing an artist if you really want that to pop, because we're not all going to go viral. That's just not real. If that was a formula, then somebody let me know because I want to do that, too. But you have to really give it time and

And I think I needed time, first of all, to even know who I was because I was just an execution machine. I would do whatever assignment was in front of me and I would do it well. But that doesn't mean you have an identity, girl. And as an artist, you need people to connect with you. You need to be real. Yeah. You know, I've heard that from people who were kind of like child stars. It's a blessing and a curse. You learn to be super professional at a young age and to, like you said, execute and to...

whatever's given you, you do it perfectly. But then if you're trying to develop to be a real artist, you have to learn to not listen to what you're being told. And it's a very tricky thing. I've heard that exact thing from people in a similar situation. It's a crazy thing. I feel like it's, it was three different like plights. One was like, okay, who am I? All I do is what people tell me.

then I'm independent and I'm like, oh my God, I know myself. And this is me. This is me that I really am. Then you get signed and you're like, okay, well now they're saying I should do this. And they're saying I should do this, but I really want to do this. What if that's not right? I don't want to be wrong. It's like, it went from like no voices to an inner voice to a thousand voices. And it is no joke. It's really no joke.

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Was it, or sort of how difficult, because you've reached that very smart place of don't take it personally, it's not about that, but was it a journey to get to that place? Was it heartbreaking, confusing? You're wondering if you have a future, was all that kind of going through your head? Oh, yes. I was fighting for my life because music was my life and it wasn't working. Yeah, it's very hard and it's very scary, but you know what? I don't know any...

that didn't have the extreme low point of almost give up. And so to me, what I try to do is just be very vocal about that was not easy. That was super difficult. It took way longer than I expected. And it was very confusing for a really long time because I want somebody to be able to look up an interview of mine, be on their journey of searching for their dream and feel better about the timing of it all and feel like, okay, I can give myself grace. Okay, let me breathe a little bit. Okay, if it worked out for her when she literally was about to have to

give up, go back home. You know, I didn't have money. It was expensive to live in LA. Hopefully they can see my story and just have a little bit more confidence that their thing will happen for them, you know?

When you dropped that video and started talking about yourself, was that a big moment in sort of reminding people that, hey, you were around and it's time for what's next? Or how did that kind of... It was, for me, just my first time ever being honest. I feel like I was super media trained, you know? Yeah. Another thing that you learn. Disney, yeah. Hello, but thank you so much. But I also had never been honest for real. If I didn't have like a pretty answer, I wouldn't say anything.

And so when I saw the tweet that was going viral at the time, like what happened to Coco Jones? She was supposed to be next up. I was like, oh my God, I'm already a has-been. I'm only freaking 19. I'm going to vomit. I told my mom and she was like, well, why don't you just tell them what happened? Her not knowing how the internet works. I'm like, girl, I will get blackballed. But I remember my mom said, what do you have to lose? And the way that lose echoed in my mind, I felt like a SpongeBob episode where he was like going through an identity crisis. And I said, what do I have to lose? I have nothing going on. So it was just like,

a risk in a way, but also I wanted people to know. I wanted y'all to know it's not me. I'm here. I'm working. I'm trying. It's just the cards I was dealt, you know? Your mom really has a lot of wisdom, doesn't she? Heck yeah. She's literally freaking genius. Yeah. So pretty soon you had your new deal. No. L-O-L-O-L-O-L. Not pretty soon. Not pretty soon. What was next actually was I went viral on TikTok and I was like, what the heck is TikTok?

So the sound from my video, somebody, you know, everyone was using the sound. And I was like, what's going on? What is this? What is this tool that has people knowing about me in two seconds? And then I start getting on TikTok. I start making the covers. They will start going viral. And then I start getting messages like, hey, I didn't know this was going on. Reach out to this person or like, hey, come to the studio. I want you to introduce. It was like, OK, now I have people trying to like.

facilitate me to do something, anything. That's where I had met my first manager as an adult at the time. Because when your mom is like, you're under 18, everything's going through your mom. I don't know what's going on. So now I have representation who introduces me to people and then I get a job and the job is Bel Air. And then I meet another person who connects me to another person. And then I have music management and then they introduce me to somebody and then I'm signed at Def Jam. So it was like,

It was like two years of like restructuring. Yeah. But TikTok was that next big girl. So shout out to TikTok. You kind of. I mean, they're a pretty big job. I mean, yeah. Right. I mean, right. But even at the time I was like, I'm not going to get it because I was doing so many auditions. I would do like, come on, like five or six a week. You're reading scripts. You're going in there. You're giving it your all. You're dressing for the character and you get shut down. So I was like, come on, let's just do this. Hello. Moving on. And it was actually my job. You know, when it's your job, it's yours.

it's great to do both music and acting, but the other thing people don't realize is acting is so much about rejection as well. So in a way it can either compound your success or it can just compound the amount of ways you can feel rejected in any given day. Yeah. Seriously. You kind of have to, I remember when I did the hit different cover of SZA's song, she DM'd me because it was going so up. My first question was, how did you do this? How, how? And she

And she was like, you have to be delusional. Like you actually have to be a little crazy because it's not going to look real for a long time, but you have to know it's real. You have to be crazy a little bit. That's cool that she was giving you advice like that. I know. Yeah. I definitely held on to that one. Have you gotten to know her anymore since then? No, I haven't really gotten to know her. I've, of course seen her in passing, but...

But I feel like it's kind of with artists, you kind of get to know them more through working together, you know? So like you're on set with them and you're like, oh, hey, hey, you know, or, you know, a quick gig or a quick carpet. You're not really knowing anyone. So how did ICU happen? ICU, um...

I mean, I was really just in the studio. I was there to make like a bop. I wanted to make like an uptempo, something cute, something sexy, something for the girls. And then I heard this track that was like so emotional and I was like, ooh, skip, geez. And then I kept playing, I kept playing other tracks and I just could not stop thinking about that one track that was so different from everything I had asked him to play.

And I went back to it and I really just freestyled, honestly. And we wrote that song in like 20 minutes. I'm not even going to lie. Wow. Yeah. I think what people took from it, yeah, traditional R&B, people were like, this is an old soul. You know, like this is someone who really knows stuff, you know,

Sure, the 90s. Sure. But going way back, it just has that like real R&B richness to it. And it's like you could rearrange it and make it a 60s song even, you know, like it has that to it. So that, like you said, that's not all you do, but that's a side to you. And that shows, and a lot of that probably is those influences your mom put into it. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I always have to honor my mom because there were so many things that I was learning that I...

look back on and still use to this day. My mom comes from a family of entrepreneurs. So we've had this family funeral home in our family for like generations. And she always is a problem solver. Like she's quick to figure out what can be done to help anybody in their journey. And so I'm grateful that she is my mom because she taught me so much, so many crucial things. But yeah, definitely some Aretha Franklin influences up in there for sure. Did she respond particularly to that song, your mom?

LOL. Yes. My mom will cry at the drop of a hat, but my mom keeps every song I've ever done. She has a Dropbox loaded with demos. It's crazy. Like I was recording so much all my life and I would also sing people songs for them, like a demo artist. So like some of it is like this Broadway play that I just sang so they could like pitch it to people and I would just do it.

I'd be like, yeah, what is it? I'll learn it. I'll sing it. Crazy. So, yeah, I mean, this album does go in a lot of different directions. And Taste is the one that is super poppy. It obviously has the big Britney Spears interpolation. And I love it. I think it's a lot of fun. I think some people were like, I mean, I love Britney Spears, but they were acting like it's sacred ground and you shouldn't have a big sample of it. I was kind of surprised that

the back and forth, but you know it's going to make some noise when you have a big sample like that. So tell me about the thinking there. Yeah, I mean, I figured that it was going to ruffle feathers because, of course, it's something...

sacred, but I'm like, hello, I low-key sample things and everything, even on the acting side. Bel-Air, please. Like, I'm not one to be afraid of making something older feel like my spin and my take and feeling new. I mean, that's kind of worked for me. It's kind of like my whole thing. But I think for me, my biggest fear thought was, will my core

core people be mad at me. Like, hey, you're the ICU girl. You're the singing girl. No, we're done with you. I just didn't want to be discarded. I'm like, am I free to try things here? Which kind of led to the whole premise of the album. If I look back and I'm like, dang, I really only, I moved out of fear. I really only did things that I felt like were safe. I would not be able to be proud. And I learned so many lessons from doing the scary things. So I just had to do it. But I'm really proud of the song. And I feel like to me, Britney is an honor.

an icon. But to me specifically, the same way that Destiny's Child is specific to me, like I was around that world. And I mean, I was studying all of the girls. So to me, I'm like, shall I be allowed to go through all of my influences or only the traditional R&B ones? Like, is there a rule here that I don't know? Right. So I kind of had to break it.

It's also about embracing everything you were, embracing the fact that, hey, I was a Disney Channel character. Yes. Yeah. And I also want to remind people that, like, I have all of these different influences because that was my life, you know? So pick the side of me you like, but don't put me in a cage. How did that song actually come together? How did the idea of that sample and the way you use it and just the song, how did that all happen? So I was working with Stargate and Jasper Harris. And Jasper is...

he just has a bunch of random sounds and he's just like one of those super tech guys where he's got all these different things. And I was like, we had already done a couple songs together and we loved them. We were vibing. It was like new, new working with these producers, but like we were vibing. And I was like, let's just do something crazy. Like what you got? So he was playing all different types of like sounds and distorted things and some samples and like all over the place with it. And there was like this chopped and screwed toxic sample. And I was like, whoa. Toxic sample.

That was an iconic song. And then there was this beat that we also really loved. And I was like, put the toxic sample in this beat, but not all through it, like random places, random places. And I'll just freestyle around it and let's just see what happens. And it really was just, let's just be creative and let's just have fun and not worry about, nobody was thinking at the time that, ooh, should you mess with such an iconic, ooh, what do people say you're the, you know, it was just like, ooh, it was just this feeling of,

we've got something here. This is fun. This is good. This feels right. Let's lean into it. And then once you had it, you were like, this has to come out. I'm not going to, or was there any fear of like, you know what? I don't know. Oh, superscared.com slash freaking out. But that's how I am with all of my songs because they're all super important to me. So this is what I do. I make a song and in my mind, I'm like, I'm screaming, I'm screaming. I love this so much. Please. I need this. And I just send it to people. I send it to my team and I don't say a thing. And then I just wait to see what people say. If anyone brings it up,

Okay. Period. We got something. And I can actually feel the emotions because I really love that song. If nobody says anything, I quietly cry a tear. That's really smart. Just kidding, I don't cry. But that's really smart. That's good advice for artists is like when you're seeking feedback, don't like tilt it away. Right. No, please. I need that genuine. I won't say a thing. I'll be like, hey, new songs in the notes app. Bye. But then I'll be like eating popcorn, watching this terrible movie that is my life. And I'm like, well, they picked the song that I love. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. That's really smart. Yeah.

I think a song for the ICU people is Other Side of Love. I mean, that's one I can see, you know, you should be on the Grammys in a gown, you know, with the orchestra singing that one. That's the one for that, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm glad that I can still, you know, play around in that world and, you

And I want people to know that I, I want to give people what they love, but I also want to, I want to discover more of myself, you know? And I feel like this is kind of an album where I will look back and I'll pick,

I'll pick something from this album that becomes where I really lean into for the next thing. But like, I kind of had to put a lot of different feelers out there to see how it made me feel to have things out. Like I'm a whole different person than before I released a taste because I needed to see what happened to me when that came out. I needed to do that video. I needed to see the reactions. I needed to see it for myself. It's kind of like,

When you're a kid and somebody's like, hey, don't touch that stove. You're like, you know, that's not going to work for me. Like I got to see and feel it. And I got to know what happens to me once I touch the stove. Like you got to learn things that will really stick through like real life. So that's kind of what this whole album was. And I'm curious to see what happens. Like I'm very like optimistic, but I'm very curious to see like who I become because I'm like a sponge to everything happening with my team and everything happening with the world. Like it all is like,

like these little pieces of my brain light up once I have an epiphany. Right. Well, so just to go back to taste for a second, what did you, what did you learn having out in the world? You know what I learned? They're not afraid of me sampling pop, but they, they being the fans, they really want my vocals to shine through. Like I can do whatever sonically, but those vocals got to be able to shine through. So what I mean when I say that is,

the music video versus like the Terrell live performance of it. One was like tempo slowed. One was less beats, less instruments, background singers. And it was a completely different take on the main song. ♪ When I'm slipping, I'm on the back of the train ♪

I saw people gravitate towards that one because the vocals still shine through. Yeah. And that was like a good learning lesson in it. Like, okay, good to know. Again, Other Side of Love, you're, you're seeing your ass off on that one. I mean, I'm saying it's like, tell me about just what you remember of that one coming together. Other Side of Love is one of the oldest songs on the album. It's like three or four years old. It was one of the first songs I ever did when I got signed to Def Jam High Standards. And, um, what I remember was, um,

Sometimes this part of me that, like you said, feels very like 60s soul. Yeah. It's like this second nature element in me. And I'll hear a song and I'll just freestyle because I just I know what I should do. It's like something in me is like, you know what you should do. And that's really how those songs kind of come together very quickly, very quickly.

I mean, I'm not trying to brag or anything, but like, it's just easy. It's like something in me is like, it's just in me. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. And then on the other side of the spectrum, is it the most beautiful design that's with Future? Yeah. So I love Future. I did a cover story with him. I watched him in the studio and it's just like, were you in person with him or was it?

So I didn't get to record in person with him, but we did get to like meet up and I did get to watch him in the studio, too. And yeah, he's like a music machine. And that was really cool, too. Like that's something that I also would want to try, like having multiple producers just like, hey, sending you beats, sending you beats, sending you beats. You're right there, right in front of everybody recording. Yeah. You're doing your ideas and you're waiting to see how people react in real time. You're getting feedback on like what this song really feels like. Yeah. It's really cool.

I don't know that like a singer could work as fast as he does, but maybe, I mean, you know, you saw it. Yeah. He was like, I heard you be freestyling. I was like, yeah, but like, not like you. No, I'm seriously a big future fan. Like he has hits for days and it's really impressive, honestly, to like have such a long career and to still have the kids. Like if you still have the youth, like you're really doing something powerful. That's a good point.

What stands out about that song for you? I think just the versatility. And also, I feel like R&B and rap used to be like a sickening duo that people would do a lot. And I was excited that London could be like the middle ground for both of us to find a place where we could both live and actually shine because those type of songs are so historic and cultural. And I was glad to be able to do that. Yeah, you're right. I mean, there was a period when that was...

kind of almost what the pop charts were. Yes. Yes. And I do want to bring stuff like that back of, of crossing those worlds and crossing those fan bases. Like I would love to do a song with little baby. Like I would love to, I mean, cross those worlds and combine them because I,

Girls listen to rap too. And guys listen to R&B. So like everybody quit acting all thuggy and let's sing a little bit. R&B is one of those genres. I feel like there's a lot of genres where people are always kind of fretting about the state of it, you know, but R&B is one where it's like, what's, what's going on with R&B? Is, you know, is R&B, the state of R&B strong? Is it, is it this, is it that? Where do you see it right now? I see R&B as kind of like the, the long game type of genre because R&B,

I don't feel like it has the common pattern of like, oh, you put this R&B song out and it's viral. But it does have the common pattern of you put this song out and once it sticks, it's there. And I would rather have a song that's there for a while than a song that trended for like two days. Like, for example, like Snooze. I can't know when I'm with you.

Like that song is not going anywhere forever because once it sticks, it's stuck. And that's what I think is really impressive about R&B. It's just for me, I want to continue to expand what it is like. It's also high energy to me. It's also aggressive to me. It's sometimes it's lovey dovey and it's not sad either. Like sometimes it's not sad.

Sometimes it's positive lovey-dovey. It's a very usable genre, very flexible. And so I want to continue to expand what it can be. I love that you did something like Taste because people do have a weird thing of acting like R&B isn't also pop, which it is. Yeah, dude. I mean, hello? Like, Bed Kim? Sabrina? Come on. Yeah. Yeah.

I feel like there's so many cross genres at this point that I really don't even try to strive to like, let me stay in my R&B lane, yikes, or let me try to cross over to pop. Are you guys happy with this? I just want to make a song that feels for real. Like, I'm a human. This is what I'm talking about. You feel me? And I want people to be like, yes, we feel you. I feel like the lyrical angle of the opening track, Keep It Quiet, is interesting. Tell me about that, because I've never heard a lyric quite with that idea before. Yeah.

So basically you mean like the premise of it? Like if you're going to play, then play on the low. So basically, yeah, that is crazy. I'm not advocating for cheating on me. You will get left. But what I'm really saying is like, when you think about it, I think a lot of these songs are like, please don't hurt me. Oh no, you've hurt me. But this is like, hey, if you want to do dirt, do it on the low because I could do that too. Because you're not higher than me when it comes to the people in this relationship. I'm not looking up to you. We're equals.

And I could do dirt, too. I'm I'm important, too. Like, you're not lucky to be here. We're both lucky to be here, you know. So nobody has the upper hand. And I kind of like that feeling of like, hey, I have people who are checking on me. I have people who are looking at me and I'm not trying to be embarrassed either. So if you're going to play around, don't play in my face. I love you. I'm begging for that. I'm asking for just keep it quiet.

The lyrics are definitely, you know, and as you're a long way from Disney, they're definitely like grown, sexy. Like you're definitely making a point of like, hey, I'm a grown woman. This is my life now. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's important. What I want people to understand from me is like, okay, Coco is definitely experimentive. She's definitely carefree and fearless when it comes to her creative choices. She's very vulnerable. She's very authentic, but she's going to do what feels right to her. And also she's going to be real about it. Like...

I'm not acting like, oh, yeah, these are the this is the perfect formula. Some of this stuff I'm going to be wrong about, but I got to do what feels right for me right now. And that's kind of like why why not more is the theme, because I don't want to hold back. I can't. There's no reason that would justify that. And so I want people to be like proud of me that I'm doing creatively what I'm inspired to do. And and I'm only going to get better. I'm only going to learn more about myself as as I drop stuff.

What is it? A-E-I... A-E-O-M-G? Yeah. Yeah, that one was wild. Yeah, that one's super sexual. Sorry, mom. Don't listen to that one. My mom literally knows when to skip. She homies watch like a few of my music videos. I'm like, hey, girl, save yourself. Wow. Yeah, I love that one. It has like the Luther Vandross. Yeah. Honestly,

I'm grown, man. I gotta, I gotta be honest. I gotta be honest with myself. And also I feel like, um, that's not too shocking. No. Like it could get crazier. Were you like kind of laughing as you came up with those lyrics? Absolutely. Giggling. Me and, um, Sarah and LaVon, we were writing that one and, and it was just so fun. And, um, it was funny. It was. Cause we're all in there, like, like talking about sex.

It was just hilarious. Like, what's going on? This is our job and this is what we do. It's hilarious. Yeah, it's also like the legs are on the ceiling. You know what? Truthfully, when I was thinking of that, I was really thinking about Patrick Starr when he was in SpongeBob and like when he started singing that song, the I'm a Goofy Goober rock and Patrick had those fishnets on with those heels. His legs were on the ceiling and he had legs for days. I'm... Okay, settle down. I'm... Take it easy. I'm... What the scallop? I'll do it.

I don't know, man. You got to make it funny. You got to make it laugh. But, you know, I want there to be a song for every state. You know, there needs to be a couple late night songs. It does seem to come back to SpongeBob a lot, though. I do notice that about myself. I'm like, I need to bring that up with my therapist. And you is the current single. That's a great song. Thank you. You show me things I never saw. You know what you really are.

Tell me about how that came together. Yeah. So you was another song that I did with London and I want to also promote non-toxicity sometimes because I,

we can't have all the songs about like heartbreak, you know, and pain. Like there's gotta be some positivity in the room. And I felt like the track was so light and happy that it was like, oh, this is a good opportunity to show the good side of when you actually love someone and they don't hurt you. Like, you know, so that was really a fun, a fun song to do and really lighthearted. It's not one of those albums where it's like 35 songs, which I really appreciate. It's just like tight and, you know, and focused and every song is

So were there a bunch of songs that you kind of left off? Yeah. In that notes app that all my team has access to, there are several songs that I'm like, what? I can't believe that didn't make the cut. But in order to get really strong songs, you have to have a lot of not strong ones, which takes a lot of recording. Are there ones that are good enough that you're like, oh, this might be for the next one? Or is it not like that? I have some that, yes, I feel like we're like a little too left for

from center that I would love to revisit moving forward. In what way? Like just totally different genres or like? Just like, I think for me, I look at my album like, okay, we've been on a couple of dates and now we're like start like the puppy love phase. It's starting to fade away. So I am, yes, I'm a little more crazy and yes, I can be aggressive and I could be a little slick at the mouth sometimes. Like you're starting to show sometimes the sides of you that are a little like

don't get upset don't leave you know and so i wouldn't want to go completely batshit on y'all until like album two like right you know gosh you're waiting let's warm it up you're waiting till you get to know them and get a little less polite a little more real kind of thing yeah yeah and this is how real relationships work like we're it's gonna get ugly up in here but like let's just save it do you do your own background vocals i do it depends on the it depends on the song and it depends on if it's like

demo or something because I love to co-write and I love songs that I've already written if I feel it send it to me please because it's hard to make a lot of songs that you really really love so yeah it depends on what's going on I can tell it's something that you put a lot of thought into I definitely do and it's literally like the necessary chore because I'm like oh I want this song to be done so fast it's been six hours but I know I have to fully do this full

fully, especially if I want to send it to my team. Like I cannot just give them an idea. Like it needs to be fully fleshed out. Real artists know that people like, you know, the Michael Jackson and Mariah, like they spend a, they spent a lot of time on their backing. Yeah. And I'm sure that's something you have an ear for. You're like, you know how, you know who does them well. Absolutely. I definitely do. And I feel like that's the, that's the price of a good song. Like it is going to take everything out of you. Every thought, every creative juice. Yeah.

The process of recording vocals can be, you know, it can be like almost line by line. Are there songs where you kind of have almost a straight performance or is it really very much just getting each word right? A lot of the times I hear that I record super fast because I think I have to give credit to being in the studio where there was only one take of the whole song. And it taught me so much about execution and really knowing

nailing it feelings wise, articulation wise. Like I would get so mad when I would say the lyrics wrong. Cause that's like, you don't get to fix it. You have to do it again. So like it taught me to be really, really precise when I record. So most of the times I do it pretty fast. Wow. That's kind of goes against trend. That's, that's not the way people. Yeah. And then the other thing with people who can really sing, sometimes they're fighting against producers and engineers are trying to like tune it when they don't really need it. Do you, do you, do you have that ear and be like,

turn that off or like how do you kind of I definitely will be like oh it's a little too robotic in the room I'm like let's get back to human human world and sometimes I will record without it in general just to like really really get the the raw feelings out there

Yeah. I mean, it's because it's, they're not necessarily used to people who can, you know, really, really sing. Not necessarily, you know? It depends. It definitely depends. No shade to anybody. But I do feel like when I first got my second wave of momentum, so many people assumed I couldn't really sing. Yeah.

Cause there was not really too much proof of all of that, you know? And so I would go into studios and I would start working with them and they would be blown away. Like, holy crap. We didn't know you could do that. When can you come back in? We got to connect you with these people. I'm like, dang, I guess y'all really didn't know, but you're going to do a thing on the voice.

Or maybe already have. Is that already happening? Yeah. Yeah. I was one of the mentors. I was working with John Legend's team and I was kind of like, are we sure? Because I'm still a fetus and I don't even know what's going on in my own life. But I was really, I guess, impressed by my own self to be like, I actually have experienced a lot that has taught me some some lessons, definitely good ones and like hard lessons. So that was kind of like interesting to see of myself.

And it was with John Legend. Did you have a chance to talk to him about that? Yeah, yeah. We did get to talk. I asked him about like, you know, how he continues to find that creative fire. You know, how do you continue when you've done so many hits? Like, when do you cash out, you know? And he was talking about how he's kind of morphed his creativity into like doing children's stuff for his kids. And I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't even think about like what inspires you when your life changes. And so that made me really excited for like

you know, my future, my personal life to inspire my career. Now, I was wondering if you have a dream biopic because, you know, obviously you'd be a perfect person to do a role where it was a, you know, you played, played a singer. So I wonder if that's something you thought about. People tell me I look similar to Jennifer Hudson and I've actually been on her show a couple of times and I,

I know her story and she's told me even more parts about it. Like just when we were sitting there waiting for the next time to start recording. And I actually really am inspired by her story. And I think that would be an amazing biopic. I would do it. That's really interesting. I was, I was wondering if that, yeah, I was thinking, I always think more like, you know, someone from the seventies or sixties, but that's really cool. I wouldn't have thought of that. I mean, I just personally really like her. So, um, yeah, I could see that, but I mean,

I mean, Aretha Franklin, hello. I mean, of course, like all of the things I'm so inspired by all of the sixties and the seventies that I feel like I could, I could definitely do that. Yeah. I would do that. I know you're going to tour. Tell me what your vision is for the stage for the, for all this music. Oh yeah. I'm really excited because I'm way more decisive this go around cause I'm not scared anymore. So the, the entire aesthetic is, is very much intentional. There's a couple of different like,

sections of the show where the music and the, um, the vibe are specifically curated. And I'm excited to like bring people on a journey and, and to really entertain, you know, like, I feel like my job is to make people be like, dang, that was good. Like, I can't wait to come back. Like I was, so I want to be very intentional with all of that, putting on a good show.

Where do you want this career to be in 10 years? What's your dream for that? I think scale everything up, scale everything bigger, bigger shows, bigger numbers, fan bases. And I think also, I think a reputation of always doing things with a certain level of quality.

Um, which just comes with doing more things, high quality, a couple more awards would be great. I would love to go places and do a world tour and have my music take me places I've never been. And, um, I think lastly, I would want to kind of have this blueprint formulated that people can look at and be like, oh, that was the Coco Jones way. And, and maybe the next young black girl could be like,

okay, she did it like that. I can do it like that. You know, the way I study Beyonce, how did she do that? And what was going on in this time in her world? And like, you know, I want to be so transparent and so vocal that somebody can watch me. And if they don't know me personally, then maybe I can like mentor them in a way and give them some tips to help them, you know, break through those doors. Yeah. I mean, we still need that album of the year Grammy for an R&B album because Beyonce wanted for her country album. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Hey,

Now, who knows, man? I can't wait to see the future. I wish I knew it. All right. Well, thank you so much. That was great. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it so much. And that's our show. We'll be back next week. In the meantime, subscribe to Rolling Stone Music Now wherever you get your podcasts. And please leave us five stars and a nice review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify because that's always appreciated. But as always, thanks so much for listening and we will see you next week.

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