EXCLUSIVE: Inside the 2025 Grammys with Exec Producer Ben Winston
01:07:11 Share

This is a mini meditation guided by Bombas. Repeat after me. I'm comfy. I'm cozy. I have zero blisters on my toes. And that's because I wear Bombas. The softest socks, underwear, and t-shirts that give back. One purchased equals one donated. Now go to bombas.com slash listen and use code listen for 20% off your first purchase. That's bombas.com slash listen and use code listen at checkout.

You know what's smart? Enjoying a fresh gourmet meal at home that you didn't have to cook. Meet Factor, your loophole in the laws of mealtime. Chef-crafted meals delivered with a tap, ready in just two minutes. You know what's even smarter? Treating yourself without cheating your goals. Factor is dietician-approved, chef-prepared, and you-plated. Pretty smart, huh? Refresh your routine and eat smart with Factor. Learn more at factormeals.com.

I'm Brian Hyatt. This is Rolling Stone Music Now. Today, I'm bringing you an exclusive interview with Ben Winston, executive producer of the Grammys. He'll take us through some of the highlights of the show and share, hopefully, some behind-the-scenes secrets. Ben, thank you so much for taking the time to do this, especially when you are understandably exhausted right after doing this show. My pleasure. It's nice to chat to you. It's like it's a tradition now, isn't it?

Pleasure, nice to be with you. How are you holding up post-show? I feel alright actually. I feel good. I feel like it went to plan. It was one of those days where we had like a really terrible dress run where like everything went wrong and it kind of like the comms went down between the truck and the cameras and backstage and Trevor's IFB in his ear went down and...

The weekend it took, it was supposed to take like four minutes to build his set and it took 11. So we had an extra six minutes of commercials. We had to play in the dress just to build that pyramid thing. So I sort of, and then we had to turn it all around in two hours after the dress run. So we do the dress run at 11.

10:30 in the morning it actually because of the delays finished at like 2:00 and then we only had three hours before we go live at 5:00 So it was one of those days that was really stressful. But funnily enough, I think the disaster of the dress rehearsal Made the show better because every single department was like, oof, that was bad. Okay now let's now we all have to like really pull our shit together so So yeah when it went great. Um

I think, and I feel really satisfied and happy this morning. And I hope the response to it is good. So no one was stuck in traffic this year. No, no, thank God. No one was stuck in traffic this year. Luckily there was so many people in the show that they like all just stayed. The dress run finished so late that there was no time for anybody to leave the building. Although to be fair, Beyonce only got there seconds before her award actually. So we got, um,

So that got lucky before that country album moment. So that was a bit tense and stressful. And Kendrick was kind of late. So there's always I don't I wonder if the Oscars has this problem of like all the big talent kind of like just rolling in whenever they sort of like, you know, fancy it. I don't think they do. But musicians can get away with it because they're just so cool. And we love them regardless of what.

Kendrick created some nice drama. I know that everyone on my work Slack was utterly convinced he was not there and would not be there. And then there he was right in time. So that actually worked out very nicely, didn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I think he was in the building earlier than that, I think. Cause I, I got, I knew he was in the building. I get, I'm sat in the truck, the whole show next to the director. We're sort of controlling it all remission control. So I was never worried about Kendrick. I knew he was in the building. I think Kendrick,

think I don't think he likes to sit I mean I can't speak for Kendrick what he doesn't I don't think he likes to sit on one of those tables like I think he's sort of a more private and whatever so but I knew he was in the building so I wasn't concerned um and I was yeah I was really excited when his name got read out because I was like oh that's that's a really cool

moment for him to win record especially on a year where so much focus was on LA and hip-hop's often been overlooked in those categories so it was a really cool moment actually

And just to clarify, the New York Times found it too convenient that Taylor Swift gave the country award and that Beyonce showed up just in time. But I mean, just to clarify, you do not know who's going to win these awards. You can think, for example, there's a good chance Beyonce is going to win the country award, so let's have Taylor Swift. But you don't know. No, but also...

But also, what's the relevance of, I don't quite understand, why wouldn't I want Taylor Swift to present the Country Award, regardless of who wins? She's Taylor Swift. I'd be lucky to have her on the show. So, you know, actually, we tried to get her to present the Country, I think, last year, maybe. Yeah, no, that's, I haven't read, I don't know what you're referring to in the New York Times, because I try and keep my head down after a show and not read anything.

But no, I never know who's won. And it's better that I don't in a way, because then you can make the show with like real purity and just sort of make the show that you think is best. I would say I was like quite pleased when I saw, we obviously have to pick who we put on the show. And I felt like it was really beautiful that, you know,

We selected Shakira, not selected. That's ridiculous thing to say. We asked Shakira to perform on the show and she agreed. And then it was so nice to see her win. So sort of, we almost like picked right. But sometimes you have to bet right in the same way that like, I'm just desperate to get Dochi on the show. So then when she wins rap album, you're like, yes, that's like, so you kind of, you don't have favorites to win because you can't, but, but it is nice when the people that you put on the show then do get their just rewards. It means that we're thinking in the same way that the voters are.

you know, we're looking at Dochi or we're looking at Shakira or whoever else and sort of asking them to be part of the show. And then they go on and win, which means we sort of pick the right person

So yeah, that's a cool moment. The weekend was an interestingly meta moment because it was also about this thing with the Grammys in a way to make a statement about the evolution of the Academy. I've never quite seen anything like that at the Grammys or maybe at any award show. It was a pretty unique, the way you set it up and everything about it, the way it resolved the sort of beef with the artists. It was interesting. It was definitely unique. I've been thinking about this moment, Brian.

This moment, you asking me this question, I've been thinking about it for four months because we do this thing traditionally now. The morning after the show, I come on and we chat about the show the night before. And it's the first time I wake up and then we talk. And it's like the first discussion I've had about it. I'm touched. And for four months since these discussions have been ongoing with Abel and Sal and his wonderful team.

I've been thinking, Ooh, if we can keep this quiet, it's going to be exciting to talk about how that came about on the Rolling Stone podcast with Brian the morning after. I think it was a hugely symbolic moment in our story of the recording Academy and the Grammys. Harvey took over the Academy at the same time that me and the team took over the show. You know,

Ken Ehrlich did the most unbelievable job for years. And so I won't, you know, I only ever have praise for him, but you know, after somebody running it for so long, some artists have got the needle cause they didn't get what they wanted at some artists love the regime. Some hate the regime, but you know, it's, it's fresh, you know, you know, every, when someone new comes in, like some people like the new people, some people don't. So I was very aware of that too. You know, there'll be lots of people who miss the Ken days and lots of people who like love the new days. It's just whatever. Yeah.

Um, but there was problems at the Academy, you know, there was, you know, there's been, it felt like the first three years I was involved in it, the year before I took over, there was like, people need to step up. Then the, you know, women need to step up or whatever, you know, and then there was the issues that they've had. And Harvey came in and had to sort out the Academy for various reasons. And,

And Abel boycotting the show, the weekend boycotting the show was a really significant moment where it was like, there is a massive artist who is saying, not only does he not want to be on the show, but he's not even going to submit his music. Like that is as damning as you like. And Harvey hasn't gone and sought...

the weekend's love. Like Harvey has just gone and done the job and done the work. And like 60% of those 13,000 members who voted on new members in the last two or three years, you have to get the stats in the recording. I mean like 40% of them, I think are now women. It's the, he has really with the, with the stuff that the Academy has done, he has really done the work and artists are seeing that. And you see that room last night, um,

And it's Madame Tussauds. It's packed. It's like everybody in music is there. And by the way, it's also not just nominees who are in there. People want a table across the room. People just show up on the day. People really want to be in that room and be part of it now. And I don't know if that was necessarily the case before.

it's partly the tables that there's a bit more like fun and it's partly the show I think is really cool and it's just it's trendy at the moment and you know hopefully it will be for a while but Harvey has done amazing work with this academy and I think the weekend saw that and then when we started speaking to him and his team we had you know

we had this idea of like well you know how do you feel about the academy now and i think they they'll they'll have to say how they feel i never want to speak for them but i think the proof is in the pudding in that like there he was i cannot believe we kept it quiet i cannot believe everything leaks always and the fact that no one there's nothing online there was no rumors about it no one saw him coming into the building no one knew about it he was never on any rundown um

And so we kept it quiet. It was a really cool moment for, to have him up there and to have the Academy acknowledge his boycott and to say, we, we, you know, we heard you like we, we, we hear it and we've changed. That's a really profound moment. Um, and to have him up there performing with such a spectacle, such an amazing performance, such creative, like flair and brilliance that he put together with Lamar and his team. That

That was a really, really cool moment for all of us who care about this show and, and, and for, you know, the music community who care about the organization. It was really lovely. And I loved the way we did it. It was such TV drama. That was like, I love that. The way we like put the headlines up, Andrew, what, who's a mate of mine, he's a producer. He was nominated for song of the year last night. He also won for wrong. He's a real good mate of mine. I saw him late last night. I went to some party or whatever. And I saw him and he was like, when you put up those headlines of the weekend, you know,

I was like, what is Ben and Harvey doing? Why are you putting up all this criticism of the show? You've had an amazing show. What are you doing? Showing all these headlines of like how awful the Grammy is. He was like, I genuinely thought you'd lost your mind. Cause I, cause no one even in the room for a second went, Oh, he's behind that wall. Like no one really registered it. And so when the wall goes up and you see the weekend there, just like no one had thought it could ever happen. So yeah,

Yeah, that was cool. And I really love that all the security team at Crypto and like everybody who like, you know, car drivers, all those people, all those things always leak. And the fact it didn't is like, it renews my...

Restores my faith in secrets and humanity. This is a PSA, or public sock announcement. Experts have declared Bombas socks as the best way to warm up chilly feet. These pairs are super cushy, soft, and designed for maximum coziness. Plus, for every pair purchased, another pair will be donated, so someone in need of essential clothing can stay warm this winter. Go to Bombas.com slash listen.

and use code LISTEN for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash listen. And use code LISTEN at checkout.

We'll be right back.

So my understanding is that Brandi Carlile suggested Dawes to you, but I was curious about where the specific idea for Randy Newman's I Love L.A. came from here. That's interesting. How did you know about the Brandi Carlile thing? It was reported in the L.A. Times. So Brandi is...

Brandy is genuinely one of my favorite people in the world and is a real sounding board that I use a lot for the Grammys in that I will call her and just go, I'm thinking of doing this. What do you reckon? And she'll give me really sound advice. She's not only like one of my musical heroes, she's also become one of my really close friends. So I got evacuated. Me and my family were at the downtown hotel. We'd gone out. We live on sort of the edge of Brentwood.

uh, sort of more westward, but we'd, we'd been evacuated. And it's really interesting in 2019, there was the fires around the Getty center. And, and when that happened, that was really near my house. And I remember thinking, what am I doing here? Why did I move here from England? I want to go home. I want to go home. This is crazy. Like what am I doing? Living in a place where like wildfires can burn down your house on a random Tuesday afternoon. And I felt really like close to London and really like I needed to get out of here. Um,

This time I felt totally different. When the fires happened, I don't know, maybe I've just been here for longer now. I've been here for 10 years. It's five years on since the last six years on since those last fires, I felt like,

my city's on fire. What can we do? How can we help? There was this spirit that was really emerging. I felt in LA amongst all our neighbors and our communities of, of like, like LA strong. And it sounds corny, but I really felt it. And I felt so passionate about LA. I felt more in love with it when the fire started than I ever have been. And I was driving from downtown where

where we were staying in our hotel back to my house. Because during the night, we'd stay in the hotel and obviously the kids were there and my wife was there. And during the day, I'd come back to the house and be here on my own. And we had three hoses, one at the back, one at the side and one at the front. And I just was like, I don't think the fire is going to come close to us. But if it does, I want to be here because it's more likely that it will be a little ember that flies over that I can put it out. And I wasn't being irresponsible or silly. We live on a crossroads. I could have easily got out. I wasn't doing anything unsafe. I just wanted to protect the house. And on my drive to...

to from downtown to my house on those first few days of the fire I really was thinking about how much I had like fallen in love with the city and for some reason on my I put on my phone I just remembered that Randy Newman song of I Love LA and I played it

And I got really emotional listening to this Randy Newman song as I drove from downtown, leaving my kids where we've been evacuated back to my house. And I played it three times in a row and I like blared it out. I was like, I was going back to carpool karaoke days. I was like blaring this song out of my windows of "I Love LA" and I just was like, this is such a cool song.

And I was like, imagine if we open the Grammys with this. Imagine if we like open the Grammys with this. This would be so cool. And I remember calling Raj and Jessie and I was like, what about this? And I sent them the link. I was like, why don't we open the show with this like Spirit of LA Rising show?

And that's how it happened. It just was an idea I had. It was just an idea I had on a drive when I was feeling a little bit emotional. And, you know, I love the song. You hear it every Lakers game and Dodgers game when they win. So, and it's just a really beautiful song and I loved it. And I felt like maybe if Randy Newman would give us permission to

um which should change a couple of the lyrics which we did we called his his team and got permission to use the song which he agreed he felt he very honored um we changed three lyrics rather than look at that bum down on his knees we changed it to look at the city getting back up off its knees which was taylor from doors's idea um i suggested rather than look at those women i was like what about look at those firefighters

And then we changed another line somewhere, like taking the wins from the Santa Ana wins. Yes. Rather than we were born to ride, we tailor changes to take it in our stride. So I called, I called Brandy. I said, look, I've got this idea. I want to put a super group together. You know,

Who do you think? And we were brainstorming who it could be. And they were like, who could be the lead? And we talked about, we literally brainstormed a few different people. And I thought about Doors, not for that moment, actually, not for that moment, but I'd seen them on Kimmel like that night or the night before or a couple of nights before. So I knew of their story and I knew of them vaguely. I hadn't necessarily listened to their album like I did that day, but like I knew of Doors and I,

she said, do you like, like you should consider doors for this because they could be really cool. And as soon as she said it, I was like, that's it. I was like, that's appropriate. That's right. That's an opportunity. That's an amazing like idea. Um,

And then it was like, who could we put around them? And then and then it was just about going around. And I think our first course, John Legend, and he was like, I'd love to. And then before you knew it, we had this like super group, Brad Paisley and Brittany Howard and some Vincent and like Cheryl Crow. But yeah, no, it started. It started from a drive.

after being evacuated and it was a brandy phone call where we brainstormed a load of ideas and I'm pretty sure she said doors before I said doors I'm going to give her I am going to give her credit for it because she deserves it so she's been a big she was also behind the Joni Mitchell thing last year so I owe I owe Brandy Carlisle a lot I really do she's the greatest the

There were a lot of great performances, but I think as far as a star making moment, it did feel like Doty rose to that level where people who had never heard of her before might've been like, holy shit, this artist is amazing. Yeah.

Yeah, I've been a fan of hers for a while actually. And, um, and I just think she's unbelievable. Like so, so incredible. Um, and I actually went to see her a while back at the Grammys museum. She did like a showcase and I went to sort of meet her and, and, uh, and chat to her a little bit. And that night I was like, please come be on the show. I'd love you to be on the show. It would be so incredible to have you. I think she's sort of like,

I don't know. She's like Kendrick Lamar meets Bruno Mars in like, she's just this wild entertainer. And if, if you haven't seen her performance on Colbert, it's just so worth seeing. If you haven't seen a tiny desk concert, it's so worth seeing. I think she is going to be one of those performers that we're going to talk about and see for

so long and she turned that moment into like a super bowl performance it was like you know she really wanted to do catfish i i wasn't sure about her doing catfish like i i had sort of a couple of other ideas but she was like determined she was like no i want to do catfish and i was like i really want you to do denial and you know so we she met us in the middle and did it both and she just came and delivered and performed beyond

anything I could have ever imagined. And what I also want to point out about just how brilliant she is, we only get access essentially to the crypto arena. Obviously we get access to build the stage early, but the cameras are only ready to have a look at what it looks like and start rehearsals on Thursday night at around 7 PM. So each artist that you see on,

The show has had 45 minutes to 60 minutes of rehearsal on the stage and that's it. So we see Dochi for 45 minutes to 60 minutes because we only, we do three artists on Thursday night. Then we do all day Saturday, sorry, all day Friday and then all day Saturday and then that's it. And then we're into the dress run. So if you think about the precision of that performance on that stage from her and the choreography of it, it is such a,

like salute her ability in performing sea Prince who choreographed it and our team Hamish Hamilton and Haley who directed the hell out of that to create something that amazing. If you think about the Superbowl halftime show, they have, I think like two weeks on the, on the pitch. Maybe not the people who make that are going to kill me. Go. We don't have two weeks, but I know Kendrick was already this week on, on the pitch rehearsing. And so she had 45 minutes to rehearse that on that stage. And we had 45 minutes to practice how we shoot it. And it was flawless rehearsing.

And so that is such a salute to the team that we have making the show and to her. But I do, I was watching that going that this is, I felt like there were so many moments in that best new artist. And we could talk about that for the whole podcast because I mean, I'm not saying we will, but like I've dreamt of doing that since we took over the show, I've always wanted to do it. And so it was so lovely to see that happen last night. And you know, I don't know if you want me to unpack the detail of it, but like that was something I've dreamt of doing. And so to see it like the celebrations in the truck,

when Ray finished and we went to break. It was like... We literally were punching the air, we're hitting the walls. It was so technically complicated. And the fact that we did it, it was one of the most euphoric moments I've ever had doing live television was the end of that Best New Artist sequence. Well, sure. If you want to unpack some of the challenges there, absolutely. Well, I had...

We had the idea in the first Grammys we ever did, which was the COVID Grammys, where we sort of did it a bit like Jools Holland, if you'd remember, where we basically built five stages in a circle. And you'd go from Harry Styles straight into Billie Eilish, straight into Haim, straight into the Black Pumas. It was like you would just keep going. The music never stopped. And then you go back to...

normal Grammys in an arena and you have an audience and you have to stop and start. But for me, with music television and with network television, what frustrates me producing it is you do one performance and then you have to stop for an award and then a commercial break and then award and then another one. And who listens to an album

And then pauses for eight minutes in between each song. You just don't, right? Who goes to a party and then like, we'll go to the dance floor, we'll play one song and then we'll go to the buffet and we'll come back for another song. Like, it's just not the way you do it. So it's been like a dream of mine and I do it within memoriam, but obviously that's a bit sadder. And we've done that for a memoriam where we make them last 15, 16 minutes, but I really wanted to do it where it wasn't like tributing or sad. So,

Last year we thought about it and like we thought, do we get, you know, maybe one producer and try and make them all like, you know, the music never stops and you wind in and out and you try and make it like mix together, almost like a DJ mixing it together and they come and perform. But then when the nominations came out and I looked at them all and the only one I didn't really know a lot about was Crumbin'.

that everyone else I knew about Ray, I've been a fan of, I'm a, I'm a Brit as you can hear. So for her, like I was so happy that she got a nomination and I was any excuse to try and put her on the show. I was like willing to take, I was like, we've got to do this. Um, and don't she, I knew of and was a mega fan of and loved her and had been, you know, in touch with the management for a while.

And then, of course, everybody knows Teddy and Benson. Sabrina and Chapel were already in Shaboosie was phenomenal. When that happened and I listened to Crongman and listened to their album, I was like, oh, that's an amazing album. And suddenly I just got really into them. I thought maybe this is the year if they'll come with us on it where we can literally do it. And Raj Kapoor and Jesse Collins were my co-EPs.

and Tabitha who helped coordinate it with Janae and all the time I want to give everyone credit and Patrick Menton like everyone and Hamish and Hayley and sorry to name so many people but it's only me who could be on this podcast and it's not me who deserves the credit for the show it's like the team that we've built that is just A-list A-star incredible

And we sat around it and we literally penciled it out because we were like, how many areas do we have where we can build those sets and make it all happen and bring it to life? So you've got the dish, then you've got the floor, then you've got two stages, and then you've got the gramophone. So we sort of worked it out that we could really surprise people. And I really wanted to do this where...

Trevor walks through the audience and each one of them is there. So you're never thinking they're about to perform. So we fool you into it going, this is just going to be the nominees package. So he does a little bit about each one. I also played Crumbin behind because I also thought, as in the music played along, because it added a pace to it. The only slight cheat was Crumbin couldn't be live because there was no way of...

building their set, taking it down and then building Benson Boone's. So they were live a hundred percent live in the room, but they just weren't at that minute. We pre-taped it slightly earlier and placed it not for any reason that they weren't live or couldn't have been live or didn't want to be live. That was all me. There was just no physical geography place and I was not prepared to not have them or anyone else on the show. It had to be all of them and not all of them wanted to do it at first as well, which we'll come back to.

But like the idea that you'd go Benson surprises you in the cheek of him to sort of like when the lights change, when Trevor goes, okay, let's take a look at the album, you know, best new artist nominees. And then everyone thinks you're going to roll the tape.

And then suddenly like it just goes to Benson and he picks out his microphone and you know, and then you have these beautiful women around him JLo and Heidi Klum and Nikki Glaser pulling off his outfit. He goes to the main stage and then all of the other nominees rushed to their areas. So then you have no idea that like, don't she suddenly gonna like shut it down over there. Then you pull off that film the dish with Teddy while shaboos he walks around the back and then you close with Ray.

It was just like really exciting TV. Every single one of them like bought their A game. Every single one of them showed that they are going to be performers that are going to be around forever. And it was just a really beautiful celebration of them, of music, of the category of like how to make TV. Like I just love the technical ambition of it.

It was without question the hardest thing we've ever had to do on the show, just because you've also only got a limited amount of cameras. So think about the geography of plotting out how you need to film Benson and then also get round and then be out the way for Teddy not causing shadows and the lighting team hitting every cue and the sound team knowing which microphone. Think how many microphones are on there because they're all playing live. So, yeah, it was the team at their absolute best.

filming performers at their absolute best with like an idea that I've wanted to do for years and I've had in my brain. And so to see that was without question, my high of the whole night, because yeah, I dreamed of that happening. And so seeing it come true was like, it was a really cool moment. It was a really cool moment. And I'm so pleased that like, yeah,

All the artists that you did know about, people knew about Benson, but yet like now they really know about Benson. Same with Teddy, same with Shibuzy. They were like, wow, they are all incredible. And then the people who didn't know about people like Dochi and Ray, like they are, they arrived and they announced themselves and it was phenomenal. And you could have given after that performance, you could have given best new artists to any one of the eight of them.

And everyone had been like, yeah, no, fair enough. So it was gorgeous. This is really in the weeds, but were you able to properly rehearse Heidi Klum, Nikki Glaser removal of the tuxedo? No, that is that. No, we couldn't. So, so, um, they, they went to the dressing room just before the show and they, uh, not JLo because JLo didn't actually rip it off. She just happened to be sat next to him. She wasn't part of it. She was just lovely. And yeah, she was just sluggish.

she just, we just sat her next to him. Um, when we did the table plan, I don't know why I just did it. Um,

I just thought it would be a nice, good-looking table. But no, I saw... But Heidi, I saw was that... We spoke with Jeff, his manager, during the week. And we had the idea... I think he had the idea of ripping it away or Benson did. So we were just looking for, like, people who were fun. And Nikki's amazing and really fun. And Heidi was coming. Both of them were in the audience. So we just put them right there. And I think they rehearsed it in the dressing room before the show. But yeah, no, I did. I was not...

With the amount of stuff, 400 performers on that stage at some point during the night, if you include all the dancers and the band members, 400 people were on that stage performing. So no, I wasn't in the weeds of being in Benson's dressing room watching that rehearsal, but one of my team would have been. And it was great. It nearly didn't come off though, did it? He had to help a little bit. Heidi didn't pull it hard enough. But yeah.

When the game tips off, the NBA action is just beginning on FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. Because FanDuel is your home for NBA live betting. However you want to play, now is the perfect time to join. Make every moment more with FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. 21 plus and present in Virginia. First online, real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued is non-withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER.

To take us back to before the beginning, obviously, you know, as the show did a great job of handling of fraught circumstances, there was apparently talk of delaying, postponing the show. How close did that really come to happening, a delayed show? No, not that close. I didn't. Harvey Mason Jr., the head of Recording Academy, and I met...

Five day like four or five days into the fire starting I was like I can't speak to anyone else's opinion So I don't want to sort of say we I actually can only speak for me, right? I was kind of categorical that I thought the show should happen As long as it was safe to do so, of course if the fires had continued For you know, we were talking three weeks before right? so

If the fires had carried on at the pace that they were going, then of course the show wasn't going to be on. LA, God forbid, it probably wouldn't have existed. So we had to go, if the fires are raging like they are now, of course we are not doing a show. And we're not doing a show if there's any safety concerns. If the mayor's office aren't giving it its blessing, if the first responders aren't giving it its blessing, then we're not doing the show. Of course we're not. But you also have to go, it's three weeks away.

it's it's very unlikely that the fires are still raging at this force right like it just is you have to play you know gambling in a way so if the fires are brought under control in the next week or so and we can always cancel like we can always like change our minds right you're not like it's like oh we've said it so now we have to do it it's like no let's take each day as it comes it's

6,000. This is no exaggeration. 6,500 people from Los Angeles take a wage in some way from this show. Wow.

I'm not talking about wealthy pop stars here, right? I'm talking about the stagehands, the builders. Every single set you saw last night had to be loaded on, had to be built, had to be lit, had to be microphoned, if that's even a word. Sound teams, lighting teams, cars, florists, caterers, like venues, rehearsal spaces, everything.

I am so aware of the team that work for us and how hard they work. And all those people going, oh, cancel the Grammys, do better. No, we shouldn't be having it. I was like, well, tell that to like some of my team who've lost their home. And actually the last thing I need to tell them is they've lost their wage. Right. And, and when people go, well, just delay it. It's like, well, you just don't understand how the world works. Like if you delay it, that budget's already been spent.

It has. No one's giving you a refund for a venue and the staging that you've built and the sets that you've created. No company's going, no, no, you don't need to pay that invoice because you're not using it now. It's fine. Like, they're just not. The only people who get hindered by a delay are people.

are individuals because you can cancel contracts. You can say, I'm really sorry, we actually don't need your services now. You've lost that work. So then the show comes back four months later. It comes back, but you're not going to have the same budget. You're just not because no one's going to spend all of those fixed costs again. So actually, all that happens is you have to employ less staff. You have to do less ambitious things. And those 6,500 employees sort of become like 2,500, 300 people, like 3,000 people.

So, like, for the city, I was just like, I don't understand why, if it's safe to do so, and if the mayor's office is saying it's fine to do so, and if we're hiring our own police force and security so we are no burden on the city at our own expense, like, I don't get it. So...

So I was very, very like, that was my feeling for it. And maybe that's just because I run an independent production company that also relies on that sort of stuff. But I also felt like we could do real good. Like we could raise real money, which we did. That QR code. Your team just shared some numbers with me.

Almost $9 million was raised on Grammy Sunday to aid wildfire relief efforts. And then over the course of the entire weekend, the Academy and Music Cares raised over $24 million for charity. The response from people at home donating was way beyond what I expected. And actually, being able to showcase local businesses like we did...

get Doja Cat down to that florist, get Anderson down to that West African center in Altadena to be able to bring the firefighters on for album of the year and have, have that moment where we can just salute them and like, like have that thing happen to give doors an opportunity to open the Grammys following the footsteps of Bruce Springsteen and Prince and Beyonce and U2 and Taylor Swift. Like,

Like use the platform as a force for good. And so, yeah, for all of those reasons, I was like, we, of course we have to earn the right to like give out awards and like, we don't want it to be like, hooray, I've won. I want to thank my producer at like, sure. And I, and I accept that, but like, why not? Why not use the platform for good? A friend of mine called me when the fires were happening and he said, look, I think that you should, I think you should do a show. Um,

uh, in, you know, about the fires and you, you know, you could do it. You could bring all the musicians together. You know, you could do an amazing show. And I was like, with respect, I was like, to do that, you'd probably need, I don't know, $10 million to stage it. You'd need, um, and I was like, and I've got, I don't want to say my budget is, but I was like, I've got a decent budget. It's called the Grammys. And I was like, and then you'd have to find a network. I was like, I've already got that. It's called CBS. It's the number one network. Then you would have to like,

get the biggest artists in the world. And it'd be very hard to get Beyonce and Taylor and Gaga and Bruno and Billie Eilish in a room. I've already got that. And I've got a slot in four weeks, which is kind of perfect. And it's called the Grammys. And people are saying maybe we shouldn't do it. And I hope that like the people who just immediately went to like, you know, don't do that, like donate the money or whatever. It's like they don't really understand that that's not the way it works. That money wouldn't have been able to be done. We would have saved no money by cancelling it apart from on people of Los Angeles wage.

and that's where the money would have been saved and that's actually the least sensible thing to do. The other thing that I would read people saying is we don't want to take up hotel rooms. We don't want to come in from, you know, whether in Nashville or England. The Grammy shouldn't happen because they're taking hotel rooms from people who've been evacuated. And again, that annoyed me because I was like,

Call these hotels. LA hotels at the moment are at 32% capacity. People who've been evacuated are not staying on the whole in hotels. Either they're not wealthy enough to stay in hotels and they've moved their family or friends or they've gone elsewhere. Or if they're wealthy enough, they've rented somewhere new. But like, again, speak to those hotels. You walk through them in LA right now, they're empty. Like no one's sitting at the bars. No one's paying the valets. No one's like ordering food.

And so even that reason, I was like, it's just not true. And it annoyed me when a lot of people go, oh yeah, we don't want to take hotel rooms. I was like, no, no, no. Speak to the hotels. They'd love you to come. And we raised a lot of money. We bought a lot of awareness. And I hope people felt we did the city proud because I love this city and I feel it's my home. It's been my home for 11 years. And you know, my closest friends, my best mate lost his house. Like I really felt like,

actually like no we could do something really good here and really cool and I don't mean to be sound worthy or do goody or like because that's I like making good telly but I was like why would we do that quite the opposite we'd of course we need to change the show scrap what we had we've got three weeks to make something totally different but the answer isn't just oh no we don't want that what's the point what got scrapped anything good did we did we miss anything that you're sad about um

There was a couple of performances that just felt maybe we don't need to do that. There were a couple of songs, artists changed. There were a couple of artists who were going to do other songs and we had conversations with them where I would go, look, you've got this song that actually might be great. Or I don't think Bruno and Gaga would mind me saying, like I had a call one morning really early with Bruno and we chatted for a while and he

We were just thinking about what's right. And, and, and he said to me, actually, he said, is anybody, he said, you should, is anyone on the show doing like California dreaming? And I was like, no, but you would be amazing at that. And him and Gaga, I just were like,

they were so i loved what they did i loved that they were like no you know what we're not going to do our massive single that like would make us money and like like help us and our albums actually we're going to do something for the city like i loved how they just did that because it was so massive to have two of the biggest stars in the world not want to plug their record but actually come with us and do something bigger and that was

I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure that was the biggest spike in donations of the night because it came off the back of that fire appeal film. And I really wanted, that was one of the hardest things to program was I really wanted to do that three minute film that we did that, that show. Cause I was also very aware that like people outside of LA might,

That was the old news for them in a way. So much has happened since then. There's a new president. There's been tragedies. There's like news moves so fast. So I was very aware that like we couldn't ignore what was going on in L.A. and we were never going to. But we also needed to be aware of people around the world watch the Grammys and they might not. It might not be as sensitive to them. Right. So we really want I really wanted to do like a beautiful, like three minute film that really depicted the tragedy.

And we got some fantastic filmmakers to come on board and do that. Jeff is in blast. And, um, but then it's like, how do you follow that? How'd you pick up the room? Cause you can't start the show with that. Cause then you've iced it. So we had to start the show with hope, which is, I love LA. And then in the middle of the show, act six, we were like, let's, let's just bring it back down. Now we've had that moment with the best new artist, uh,

like let's actually just like remind everybody what's happened here, but also explain to the rest of the world what's happened here. But then you play that film and you've iced the room, right? So how do you like, how do you like, you can't just go to break and then come back with like Shakira, like you've got to really work that out. So that Bruno Gaga moment,

They really helped us out, but they did it because they wanted to do it and, and, and getting them to do that. And the discussions I had for many hours on the phone with Bruno about that, um, and Gaga, but, but Bruno is an old friend of mine and we've done a lot together over the years. So he is someone I can kick back and,

chat to and get advice from. And he's an unbelievable sounding board for me. Um, and so when that came around, it was just like, there wasn't a dry eye in the house. I think we took a shot of doors actually afterwards, Taylor from doors, like crying his eyes out. And I, and I think that affected the donations. It was magical, magical. Raj Kapoor, one of the other executive producers told me that with chapel run, it was actually quite hard to decide what song, uh,

She would play. Yeah. She, she's look at her album. You could pick any of it. Like you could throw a dart at it and you'd land on a great hit. Right? Like she's, she's such a talent. I'm so pleased she won last night. Yeah. I mean, I can't lie. I, I advocated very loudly and for a long time for pink pony club. I really wanted her to sing that. Um, I'm,

she makes her own decisions. So this isn't like, you know, we're never the producers that go, Hey, you need to sing this on this show. We respect the artists in a huge way. Um, it's a big part of every show that we make is like, it's about the artists and what they want to do. But yes, I would be lying if I said I didn't do many zooms begging for pink pony club and they weren't reluctant. They just wanted to think about it. But when the fires happen, you know, I went again and I was like, there is a love letter to Los Angeles. Like you, you have, um,

And you have a, you have a song on there that is not only beautiful and powerful, but it is literally about the freedom that you found in Los Angeles. And so they, you know, they, they, they were, they were up for it. And I think they had come to that conclusion too. And I was so happy she did that performance. And it was, yeah, it was one of my favorites of the night.

So she was leaning to Good Luck Babe? No, I don't think so, actually. I think there was a few... The Chapel song changed a few times over the six weeks. But once the fire had happened, she came to the conclusion, not us, she decided she wanted to do Pink Pony Club. And we were very happy about that. The first time you had an actual pink pony on stage, so you took it to the next level. We did. We had an actual pink pony. I've got a photo of my wife last night at about...

11 o'clock at night backstage hanging off that pink pony. We found it back. The whole arena was empty and she's like hanging off this pink pony. It was very funny picture that I took late last night. Another big moment. The Sabrina performance was quite elaborately staged and impressive. Some outfit changes. What's worth saying about the evolution of that one? Yeah, she, she, she, I think that was also a turning point in the whole show, you know, because she,

She actually had the hardest task of the night. No one realizes this, I don't think. But if you think about the subconscious of, I think about the subconscious of a viewer the whole time. It's how I work. It's like, I want people to really enjoy a show, but not know why. And I think that everything you do on television from the way something's lit to the way it sounds to the audience applause and how you mix that in, like everything, every element, everything.

is so important in making the viewer have a good experience. And I think the thing I spend longest on when we're planning a show is the rundown, is the running order. I spend hours over that. I look at it for hours, every card, every performance, every link, when you send Trevor in, when you go to break, when we put those commercials for businesses in, when we do...

videos about the performer, which we did for Sabrina and chapel and Charlie and Shakira last night when we play those, because not only is it a logistical nightmare, cause you've got to go, well, the weekend set's going to take so long to build. We can't be on the main stage for that's why Bruno's on the dish. And like, you've got to, you've got to tactically think about, um,

While everyone else is crying their eyes out to Bruno and that video, what's actually happening backstage is you've got 100 stagehand building that and 107 dancers dressed in red running on so that you've got enough time so that when Harvey goes, please welcome the weekend, it's all there and set. Like, there's loads of logistical problems in the rundown, but the biggest thing is the emotion. So you start part one.

with Trevor going, yes, this happened. This devastation happened, but a spirit has emerged in Los Angeles. It's epitomized by a band that you may not, Rolling Stone listeners may know of Doors, but I don't know if the millions who watch on CBS would have, but I mean that with love and respect to Doors, and they would say that too. But like, this is why they matter. This is why they're brilliant.

And here they are. And then they're supported by the music community of that great band that we put together. Then you have Trevor lightening the mood a little bit with some jokes because I think it's important, but then also hitting the fundraising element. Then you go to Billie Eilish, LA zone, doing a beautiful performance set in front of a backdrop of, which was the Eaton fire. That, that, that backdrop is where she grew up and that's what's burned. Now, everything you saw is gone with childhood photos of her experiencing that area. So really meaningful performance. Yeah.

And then Trevor sets up the local business commercials. So even in the commercial break, we're saying, let's do some good. And we show Doja Cat with that florist. But then you come back top of act two, and then you've got a tough job because then you've got the first non LA thing because you've got Sabrina doing a comedy performance with espresso and please, please, please. So actually, I don't know if she realized it, but we did.

We had to like really look after her in a way because that performance, she was the first person to like just do a great performance, just do an amazing like that isn't linked to L.A. that has like that is just let's have fun and bring joy and levity to people's lives. And that was a that was a real moment because a lot of the time I'm thinking, is she going to everyone going? Why is she having fun? You know, does she not realize? Does she not realize?

And so I'm so pleased that that performance landed as well as it did. And it only did because she is a obviously clearly a fantastic songwriter and performer now, but the performance that she bought with the like jokes of fun and like confidence, she is like a star. Like she is a star, like proper old school Hollywood star and,

And it was the first time working with her. I've met her a few times over the years. She's friends with a friend of mine, Jensen Carp. And so I've met her a few times, but like, this was my first time like properly. And obviously she'd been on the late, late show, but this was like the first time like producing something. And like, I don't know if she realized like how tricky that moment was. I think she just has confidence. If she doesn't like need to think about it, she's just like, Oh, this will be great. But like she had to deliver and she did. It's,

in a hugely impactful way. And actually it was that performance that allowed the rest of the night to happen. It was that performance that allowed the audience to go, oh, okay, now we can enjoy ourselves and it not all be like super worthy. And we can actually celebrate and whatever. And then to follow it up with Dochi winning,

such an impactful moment for a young person like doji is to like the body when she wins that award that part two was crucial in us winning the night and people could start dancing and get up and then by the time best new artist came they could be on their tables dancing and like by the time janelle came and shut it down it was like you know they could belly dance with shakira and it's and that turning point is sabrina carpenter doing espresso not that i overthink the show right now

The Quincy Jones tribute, obviously a ton of moving parts there. I think probably my favorite part was that has got to be the longest and greatest harmonica solo in the history of live television. Yeah. I mean, when you ask Stevie Wonder to do the show, you have to accept two things. And I've learned this now. I've learned this. You need to accept that you're getting one of the biggest icons alive, my favorite artist of all time. And therefore you beg him to do it.

And it is, it is amazing having him on the show. And I pinch myself. He's the only person I want a photo with. I don't ever get one cause I'm not, but like he is the, like he is, I am starstruck by Stevie Wonder. And I don't think there's anyone else in the world. I am starstruck by, but you have to accept he's going to do what he wants and he's going to take as long as he wants. I did. We put him in the Motown tribute three years ago that we, on the Grammys.

And he had a three minute slot with Chris Stapleton and it was an act three and he did nine minutes and it was the best nine minutes. And I, and like when, when, when Stevie said yes, I called Amy Reisenbach, the president of the network. And I said, well, there's no way we're hitting time.

And I need to know if I should, we should make cuts. Cause right now going into the show, the rundown was 10 minutes heavy. And I was like, do we need to make cuts on this? Because if we do, I need to like cut performances or, or, or like reduce. And she was great. She was like,

It's, you know, it's crazy year, the fires, the appeal, the fundraising, Quincy, unbelievable performers, like real jeopardy. And who's going to win these? She's like, it's fine. Like you've got 30 minutes leeway. Like if you need to go all the way to four hours, you can, she's like, if it's going to go beyond four hours, you need to tell me. Cause I need to let the affiliates know, but I'm going to warn everybody across the affiliates across America that you're definitely going to go 15 minutes heavy. And then it might be another 15. And at that point I relaxed about having,

Stevie and just chilled out. And I give credit to Jesse Collins here. This is why you need an amazing team making a show. Cause I was a bit stressed about the Stevie moment, Herbie, because I was like, I don't know how long that will go on. And are we going to go heavy? And he said, he was like, these are two icons. Who cares? Just let it breathe. Don't worry about it. Let blues play. Let we are the world play. He's like,

This is a moment of history. And like, just let's not worry about it. Let's just relax. Like who cares? Who cares? And he was, and he was so right. And I was like, and to be fair, I was like, you're absolutely right. And I, and, and we just, by that time I was like, let's just throw away the rundown. Stevie can go as Stevie can go. And then when he's decided to finish, she's decided to finish. And I loved how relaxed that moment was because it, it contrasted the best new artist moment. Best new artist moment was precision with her being and with Steve,

Cynthia, I was like, let it breathe because Quincy's jazz, right? Quincy is Lucy goosey. It's like, it's a load of musicians, filling games band. It's just Jacob Collier on keys. It's just a load of musicians just being amazing. And actually let's just thanks to CBS for like, just letting us relax.

Will Smith was received really well. He was very funny. He had that great story. It's a big return to a big award show for Will Smith. And I imagine both from his side and from your side, it's something that might be discussed. What were the discussions like about that? Everyone wanted him to do it. I really wanted him. The Academy wanted him. He was close to Quincy. Tabitha, who produced the bit, wanted him. We, yeah, there was no discussions. There was no like...

there was no like, you know, beard scratching going, should we do it? Everyone was just like, can we get Will Smith? And we called Will Smith and he went, yeah, I'll do that. And that was it. That was the discussion. And I stand by it. Like, you know, I know that he's, there's the Oscars thing and he's banned from that and whatever. And yeah,

I don't know. I just, uh, yeah, I really wanted Will Smith to do it. And I was really happy. He said, yes, it's, you know, we're different show. It's the Grammys. Half, half of those artists are probably banned from the Oscars. We're a different show. I, you know, it's not for me to comment on other shows. I'm so proud to produce this show. You know, I've really like, you know,

I get asked sometimes to do other award shows and I feel like I put so much into this one that like this has become my baby now and like I'm not saying I'm going to do it for 40 years like Ken Ehrlich did but I'm really happy doing it I love working with Harvey Mason Jr I love the freedom he gives us I love the team that we've created the

the team I've mentioned earlier, I'll stop name checking them because you'll think I'm insane. But like, I love that team we've created and, and we just make decisions together and, and we love, we love it. But as for the Will Smith thing, yeah, I was really happy he did it. We wanted him to do it when he confirmed we were delighted and it never, we weren't, I wasn't worried or, or for a minute with the Grammys, we different, we can do what we want. And the Janelle Monáe performance did seem like a real high point of the show. Oh,

She was incredible. That's the thing, you know, sometimes when is, I don't mean this in a, an, an arrogant way or whatever. I really don't. Cause, cause I promise you, I, I'm very aware of like, sometimes not everything hits. Right. But the funny thing is, is that like, we're talking about all these performances, right?

There were so many good ones. I don't want any to be forgotten because like it's almost like on any other night, if you'd seen Docey or you'd seen Billie Eilish or you'd seen Chapel or you'd seen Janelle Monáe, you'd be like, well, shut it down.

But they were all of a level. Charlie XCX was just like insane. It was incredible. Bruno Gaga, Stevie, Herbie Hancock. It was like the proper moments across the board. Cynthia Erivo was a vocal like I've never heard on live telly. It was just like across the board. I just felt like everybody delivered in such a major way. Even Chris Martin, like that's one of my favorite songs of the year, all my love. I play it to my kids every morning when I wake them up.

It's like a really emotional song for me. So to have that moment playing, especially with some of the people who were in memoriam that meant a great deal to me personally, it was like every element of it was a real piece of like love.

that we put into the world. That's so, so hippie for me. I've been in LA too long, but my London friends will love that you're putting into the world. Who have you come as? But I really mean it. It was like that show was made with real love and heart. The Shakira performance was really one of the most memorable moments of the whole show for me was in amidst all the complicated production and fancy camera moves was when there was one shot of Shakira belly dancing for so long and it just spotlighted

her kind of pure charisma and talent and she was kind of communing with the camera performing directly to the camera and i was i thought that was really remarkable she knows exactly what she wants shakira she came in she was the last rehearsal she was saturday night i think she started like 9 p.m and she she'd worked with hamish before on the super bowl the director hamish and uh she knows exactly what she wants she knows exactly what she wants everything to do she's like a proper like creative artist and genius and um

Yeah, that was a really, that was a really great performance. I loved that one too. And it was, we actually moved that. It was actually earlier in the show. It was originally up until Saturday night. That was act three. And then we sort of at about midnight on Saturday night,

with the show on Sunday, I sort of was staring at the board and I sort of apologized to all the stage management team. And I said, I'm so sorry, I'm going to make a change, which is so significant for them because they have to change all of the sets around the order of it, the paperwork, the timings. But I just felt like that performance would play better. And Raj did too. We both agreed on it. That would play so much better if it came act 10, because it was like,

It starts very sort of slow and meaningful. And then it turns into this party. And I was like, I don't know if everyone's going to be on their feet for a party in act three. I don't know if we've like earned the right as a show to do that. So then we moved it to act 10 and it really, it just made it a standout performance of the night because we'd earned the right to have such a like amazingly full of creative performance. And so, um, yeah, I'm really pleased we made that move, but that was a complicated move for the team to cope with for sure.

It was interesting and maybe revelatory about the state of the nation to see political statements start to creep back in from the artists. It was, you know, it may be looked back upon as kind of a cultural bellwether as far as far as whether people were going to speak out or not. And it kind of answered that question in a really interesting way. Obviously you have no idea whether that kind of stuff is going to happen during the show. No, no, but you're, but, but I know you're giving the microphone to some of the most incredible, creative, brilliant minds in the world and,

And so if you're giving a platform where they know the world's watching, then like a lot of them are going to use their time. That's, that's, that's also one of the excellent things about the Grammys actually, um, is that I feel like people come up with something to say. I actually think on Grammy speeches, like they, um,

give like they say something like they really do that. It's very, very rarely just a list of people they want to thank. Like they do do that. But like, if you think about it, all of them, like Kendrick and, and, and chapel chapel reading from her book and like, you know,

Yeah. Don't she? I mean, all of them. I have to watch the show back tonight. I think I started doing that on a Monday night after the show, because it's such a blur for me because you're calling it live and there's so many stresses that are going on. And this year, somebody is telling you someone's not in their seat. And that year, the stage manager is telling you that the stage isn't built yet. And then Trevor's got me in his ear and I'm talking to him live as well throughout the whole thing. And you've got the donations coming in on a screen and

So like, I can't always take in the speeches. The speeches is sometimes more of a time for me just to be looking at cameras and seeing reactions to like tell Hamish to cut to Billie Eilish. She's crying or, you know, or see the room. You know, I think he gets tired of me shouting. Um, so sometimes it's hard to like, remember what everybody said, especially the morning after when I'm sounding this croaky and tired, but, um,

But yeah, I think that one of the things about the Grammys that's lovely is people use that platform to say something. And why not? They should do. But yeah, I've never got any problem with that. I love that. And I think we did pretty well. But is there anything that we missed that I should have asked about? I'm really happy we got an opportunity to remember Liam Payne.

Yeah, that was, that was, I, I, I had, uh, I'd spent time with him and the rest of the band early on. And it was the first time, the way you set that up, it was the first time it really, really hit me, uh, emotionally. It was very sad. It was heartbreaking. Yeah.

Yeah, it is heartbreaking. And I love Liam very much. I worked with him for years, you know, produce their movies and their music videos, their specials. And so Liam was, we spent a lot of time together and we were together a few weeks before he passed away. And, and, you know, I spoke to Jeff, his dad, you know, the week before and said, look, you know, we want to do something, you know,

It's tricky because you can't, you know, I would have loved truthfully to do like a whole like song or performance that, you know, you know, there was an idea at one point I really wanted an artist to do like a stripped down version of Through the Dark. But yeah.

like an acoustic version of Through the Dark was what I wanted to do. And that was the plan for a little while to do that separate from In Memoriam. And then sadly, the artist I had in mind couldn't make it. So that fell away, which I was gutted about. But then we at least got like a really beautiful moment at the beginning of In Memoriam where we had Chris Martin, who's just one of the greatest men alive and musicians alive,

you know, with that guitar behind it and that drone sound. And we had the ability to show a few clips and, and, you know, all of those came from a just our, they're all in our edit. They're all in our office because we sort of made all of those things. And so there was a little thing in there that was also lovely. We, we made,

We filmed, we like half filmed a video many years ago called the infinity for the infinity. And we never finished the video because in the end the boys changed their mind and they decided to go with another single. And I can't remember which single they went for, but essentially we started filming this infinity video. And then actually the label or the band, I don't remember it so long ago, they were like, actually, we don't want to do an infinity video. We want to do, I think it was history instead. So we like quickly pivoted and had to make another video.

So we had these like this half video of like a two hour shoot. So for years, the fans have always been going, when's the infinity video? We want the infinity video. But it never existed. There never was one. It was just some like rushes as in some dailies, you know, just a few shots. But like I'd always remembered that we had these really lovely shots of him in front of the graffiti that we'd created for that day. And it's never been used or seen before. So Ben Riad in our office at Falwell, you know, with the editors, we put together that.

where we like took a bit from this is us. We took a bit from the, where we are tour with San Siro. And then we took a little bit from, from, uh, Wembley stadium. And then also from that infinity video, that's never been seen. So people could just see like his joy and love for life. And what was amazing about that is that when you're going through it, there was so many clips, uh,

but he's just laughing and like loving life and like enjoying it and looking at the camera. And like, if you look at it, the consistency of every single one of those clips is significant because he's looking over Verona and celebrating with his hands in the air and smiling. And then he's looking at Wembley stadium, he's smiling and then he's San Siro and he's laughing. And then we're doing the infinity video and he's laughing. And like, that was a really beautiful just to show across the period of like a few years, his joy and,

and kindness and love for life. And, um, yeah, it was really sad that he's gone very hard watching that in a truck while you're also trying to focus on a show and producing a show. But it was very meaningful, meaningful for all of us, um, to be able to have that Liam tribute at the beginning of In Memoriam and give him that like extra little bit, because it's always difficult in In Memoriam. There's always people, you know, you're only able to

There's, I think something like 3000 members of the community music community this year who passed away. And yet you've only got space for 45 in a, in a song. That's all you can do. It's, it's, it's horrendous. And like, you know, the recording Academy, there's a committee of like 20 people and they, they sort of select it, but I don't envy them of choosing who it is. But, you know, I didn't think they would mind this year if I just put, pick Liam out a little bit and just put him at the beginning, because I think he, he,

has affected so many people around the world and touched so many people with his music and his love and his light that he brought in. So yeah, I was happy that we were able to do that and feature him on the Grammy stage. Yeah, it was very powerful. So Ben, thank you very much for doing this. I hope you get some rest now. Yeah, maybe. I know it was great. I enjoyed it. We try our best. We don't always get it right, but...

but we're going to, we work really hard to try at least and succeed. And I just want to end this part if it's okay, because I know, and I'm going to repeat something. So I'm sorry, Brian, you have to put that. This is the tax that I'm going to give you every year. When you ask me to do this, I will only do it. If I can say that the team who make this show, it isn't about me. It is the team around me and Raj Kapoor and Jesse Collins, my co-EPs, um, execs with me on the show, Tabitha, uh,

is just with the greatest producer ever, Janae Ruzan Clay, Patrick Menton, David Wilde, unbelievable team. Alex Papa, who made those packages that everyone loved, Brittany Brazil, just the entire team, Hamish Hamilton directing, Hayley Collett, and everybody else. You know, if you think about...

Yeah.

it will mean something to people who make TV and know how hard these people work. And this show is nothing without all of these people. And, and the 6,500 Angelenos that I mentioned earlier, whether they're driving a car or keeping the venue safe or catering or whatever they're doing, the show, the show of that magnitude cannot happen unless you have a team that incredible. And I, I and the show will only ever be as successful as the team are Eric cook and everybody who

who I've also got, I just love them all. And so I'm always going to say that at the end of these pods, we'll just consider it a roll of credits. Perfectly. Okay. That's it. You've got to have it. I'm sorry. That's it. Thanks again. My absolute pleasure. Lovely chatting to you. And that's our show. We'll be back next week. In the meantime, subscribe to Rolling Stone Music Now, wherever you get your podcasts. And please leave us five stars and a nice review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

because that's always appreciated. But as always, thanks so much for listening and we will see you next week.

Bravo TV star Lala Kent holds nothing back. Like, I go into a full spiral. Get to know the TV personality. I talked about this with Teresa Giudice. Remember when I pushed Andy Cohen? Yes, it was iconic. Okay. The entrepreneur. What are we manifesting in 2025? And the mom. Sosa is a dream baby. Your kids are older. It's Bravo children. The celebrity children of celebrity Bravo lovers. Give them Lala.

Follow and listen on your favorite platform. The BiggerPockets Podcast Network is your home, get it, for real estate investing. I am very tired of people saying that your primary residence is not an investment. Get real talk from real estate pros.

Panoply.