Metallica Secrets and More: Kirk Hammett Tells All
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I'm Brian Hyatt. This is Rolling Stone Music Now. Today I have a really fun and revelatory interview with Kirk Hammett, who is of course the legendary lead guitarist of Metallica. He has a new book out called The Collection, Kirk Hammett, with a ton of gorgeous photos of his mind-boggling collection of vintage guitars and some backstory on them, including Greeny, which

which is a priceless 1959 Les Paul Standard that was owned by original Fleetwood Mac guitarist Peter Green. We talk a little bit about guitars in the book and then go deep about Metallica and his career and a whole lot more. Here's my conversation with Kirk Hammond. Thank you so much for taking time to do this. No, thank you. What a beautiful book. You reminded me how much I like looking at pictures of guitars. Me too.

I've always been a collector. I've been collecting things ever since I was like five or six years old, starting with comic books and monster magazines. And so I developed a strategy for collecting early, early, early in life when I was still a kid. And that was to always go after the most rarest, most unique, the hardest,

hard, difficult to obtain things. Because those are the things that will always retain its value and, you know, hopefully go up in value. And so that was my attitude when I collected comic books and later on like horror movie posters and just like horror related stuff. And, you know, that was the same attitude when it came to guitars. I constantly sought out the rarest, most unique things

that were also in high demand as well. Because when you collect along those lines, it's a pretty assured thing that whatever you're collecting or you're investing all your time and money and effort in will retain that value and hopefully grow. So that's kind of my collecting ethos. And a lot of times going over after the rarest, most unique stuff sends you down a rabbit hole

of like research and investigating and then next thing you know you find more rare and unique stuff that you didn't even know about and then you know the quest grows how many guitars do you own yeah I made it a point a long time ago not to count because the number bums me out because I can't play them all

And so over the years, I've been trying to bring that number down because it drives me crazy knowing that there's guitars sitting in cases that never get played. That's a result of going out on tour and needing certain guitars for that particular tour. And then after that tour is over, those guitars go into cases and we don't use them again. Both James and I, we have countless numbers of guitars like that.

And so, you know, I do a few things. I trade and that's what I like to do when I'm going after rare stuff. I want to trade because when you trade, everyone's happy, man. When cash is involved, it just, there's something empty feeling about it. I have to admit, you know.

There's something empty about it. But when you trade, everyone's happy. Everyone's so psyched to get the instrument that they want to get. I get rid of a lot of instruments anonymously because it's just simpler that way. Less complicated, less paperwork.

and, you know, goes back to square one, you know, it's one person selling a guitar to another person with no strings attached. But, you know, I have a core collection of about 40 to 50 guitars that I try to play all the time. And those are my most favorite guitars. And most of them are in the book. The most iconic one is Greeny. And you've said that that guitar actually changes the way you play, which is really interesting to me. How does that work?

Well, I want to hear the tone, you know, so less 16th notes, less 8th notes, less 16th notes, and less 32 second notes. A lot of like whole notes and quarter notes and just to let that thing sing because she sings, man. And Greeny is a unique guitar because you plug that guitar into any amp, it makes the amp sound better.

There are very few guitars that actually do that. It doesn't matter what amp you plug Greeny into, Greeny just has a way of just coming through. It's an amazing guitar. It was iconic before I even got it. And because it's so iconic, it's a source of constant inspiration. But there's more to it than that.

The sound of it is so unique. It doesn't sound like any Les Paul out there that I've seen. And I constantly A, B it to all sorts of guitars, vintage and modern. Greeny kicks all their asses. I don't even know what I'm doing, you know? It's just like half the time I already know. And, you know, one other thing is, you know, a friend said to me one day after we'd done jamming, he goes, you know, that guitar is like your Excalibur. And I thought about it and I was like, huh?

You kind of have a point there, you know, because other high, high profile players had the opportunity to buy Greeny, but passed, you know, two of those guys are Joe Bonamassa and James Hetfield. So, you know, it feels like Greeny was just waiting for me, bro. I came along and when I put that guitar in my hands, in less than a second, I knew I wasn't giving it back.

I just knew there was an instant connection with the sound of it. You know, it's like a magic wand. It has something in it. It's something in the wood. It has so much mojo. Maybe it has good karma. I don't know what it is. You know, it's beyond me to try and figure out.

I just accept what it is and feel blessed and lucky because it's a continuous source of great sound, inspiration, and mojo. And I can't get enough of it, bro. I play it all the freaking time. I bring her everywhere with me.

Everywhere, bro. Everywhere. Where I sleep, Greeny's not that far away. Where is she right now? Right now, I'm downstairs. She's upstairs. In all her glory. Hope she's okay up there. Oh, yeah.

It's funny about Joe Bonamassa because we follow each other on Twitter and argue about politics sometimes. And I was wondering if you're ever battling it out to get a guitar with that guy because he's a mega collector too, obviously. He's a mega collector, but you know, we're both at points...

In our collection, I think, I theorize, that we have so much good stuff that we each kind of like stay in our own lanes. And he alerted me to the fact that a certain black 1959 Les Paul Standard was finally coming up for sale.

in Nashville and that was a guitar that I'd been chasing for the last 10 years and it finally became available I have to thank Joe for that opportunity you know A for not buying it because he already has one and B you know just for being just really cool and and calling me first once he found out it was at that store he literally just like called me first so you know I was so stoked I sent him a greenie

Cause I was just so just like happy about that. Honor among collectors. I like that.

yeah and i do it's rare bro it's rare because in the in the horror movie poster world cutthroat you see people taking second third mortgages out on their house to buy movie posters i know people who freaking seems like they'll sell out their own own family members just to get a certain movie poster and maybe it's like that in the guitar world i don't know i haven't seen it but

But there does seem to be a certain honor among collector musicians because we're all kind of like occupying the same space. Now, there are some dealers out there who are just unscrupulous, you know. And there's some dealers out there who just want to maximize the worth of their guitars. And I get it, you know, they're businessmen. But man, it just goes back to my other thing.

When you can get a good barter deal going where everyone's happy, everyone has the guitars they want in their hands, and everyone walks away with a big smile on their face, that's the type of deal that I love, man.

And I took four. You know, I just had on the podcast, there's a guy named Dan Nigro and he's the producer for pop acts that have a lot of rock influences, big ones, Olivia Rodrigo and Chapel Roan. And, you know, like a lot of these guys, there's a few of these guys who work in pop now who are real rock fans at heart.

But lately, there's been more of a blatant influence. And I was talking with Dan because there's a song called Pink Pony Club by Chapel Rowan that has a very prominent guitar solo on it. This was a huge pop song that has a whole guitar solo section. And this is...

quite a full circle of development. And so he was saying that when he was discussing this with the artist, he was bringing up or thinking about the moment in some kind of monster documentary. You were making the argument that if you don't have guitar solos, it would date it to that moment. And it was this whole thing. And he was talking about how younger artists don't have that thing of like, oh, guitar solos are dated. They don't, they're not afraid to put a guitar solo back and the guitar solo is back. And I just was curious how you look back at

all that now and how you think of it the fact that there was a period when they were not uh not allowed not cool and not just in metallica it was it was obviously it was in the broader world yeah you know as a guitar player i just always shook my head and looked the other way because you know guitar ebbs and flows you know this is it's just like guitar is popular and then guitar is not popular guitar driven music is popular then it's not popular then it's popular again

You know, it's weird because over the course of my life, it seems like people get sick of hearing it and want to hear something else. But then when they hear too much of something else, they crave hearing guitar again. And I swear to God, but it's been happening since the 30s and 40s. There's just listening trends. And I've seen it, you know, 1970.

79, 1980, everyone was saying heavy metal is dead and heavy metal hadn't even fully blossomed yet. And, you know, me and all my friends were listening to like this incredible freaking heavy metal coming out of the UK and Europe and shaking our heads going, if heavy metal is dead, they're not listening to the same stuff we are because it was a really exciting time because man, the energy that heavy metal had, um,

It was a new hybrid of just like punk energy, punk aggression, heavy metal riffs. Oh man. Anyone who said to me, heavy metal is dead. I'd say, no, it just is not being played on the radio for people like you who don't have the wherewithal to like, you know, look beyond.

What they're hearing on the radio, me and my friends recognize a whole movement, and I just refused to accept heavy metal is dead. But it was that thing. People were just kind of

sick of all the guitar stuff and so all these synths came in right all these synth bands new romantic movement you know Duran Duran and I can see why people would say heavy metal's dead because they're hearing nothing but synths these days but under the surface bro it was just waiting to strike and come back and it came back with a vengeance I believe and now the

It's the same cycle, I believe. But instead of just synths, you have samples, you know, you have whole songs just created digitally. You also have like five or six writers on one song, which is like mind-boggling to me because when you hear the song, you're like, it took five or six people to put together that song? You know? Yeah.

So, I mean, to answer your question, bro, I think it's just, you know, it just follows trends. And to say that something is dead and will never come back, I think that's just a dangerous statement to say overall when you're talking about art of any kind.

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It's interesting, I mean, to realize that when you wrote the Enter Salmon riff, you were listening to early Soundgarden. Learning that helped me understand why the Black Album, in part, fit in so well with stuff it had no business fitting in next to. It was for kids who were buying all those grunge albums in 91, 92, the Black Album actually fit really well into it. And part of it was you were already listening to that stuff. Yeah.

Oh yeah, I mean, I remember getting the first sub pop singles in 1987, bro. And I still have like, you know, all those single of the month singles. It'll be Nirvana, Mudhoney, Tad, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains,

Green River. I mean, it's like tons of stuff. I was listening to a lot of it and James was listening to a lot of it. And all of a sudden, I knew things were happening because a couple of years later, I started seeing

guys with hairdos that reminded me of like what the sub pop guys look was on all these singles. And, and me and my friends were saying, Oh, that guy has the sub pop hairdo. Oh, that guy has the sub pop hairdo. But then, you know, all those albums started coming out and then we were full on in the grunge era. And, you know, I had no problem with the grunge. I freaking loved it.

To be honest, I thought it was the greatest fucking thing. And then there's a lot of stuff that came out of that whole period that's still listened to a lot today.

Like Nirvana, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, and Mudhoney. I still listen to that stuff a lot. Because it's great, man. It's great. You know, people don't realize the extent to which Kurt Cobain was specifically a Metallica fan. You tell that story of him coming to a show and being like, are you guys going to play Whiplash tonight? You know, Kurt told me that he freaking loved Ride the Lightning, too. And there's a riff off Bleach that reminds me of Ride the Lightning. It has the same sort of phrasing.

And, you know, Kurt was a great, great guy. You know, you can tell that he was shy. You can tell that he is more the observer than a participator, you know.

And every time I saw him, he would always be just kind of like mellow, sitting back in his seat, either drinking a beer or smoking a joint or whatever, you know. And I smoked and drank with him, you know, quite a bit back in the day. And I remember getting an early copy of Nevermind.

And then seeing them at the Palladium in LA, I came backstage and I said, Kurt, Nevermind's going to be huge. He goes, no, it's not. I go, yes, it is. And then I told Chris Novoselic, I said, bro, this album's going to be huge. He goes, think so? I go, I know so. It's going to be huge, man. They're like, nah, nah, nah.

And, you know, at the same time, Courtney loves sitting right there giving me thinking the worst stink eye in the world. And I'm going, oh, my God, what's up? You know, but I mean, Nirvana at the time, pre-fame, they were a great band and with very pure intentions. You know, they came out there and just fucking played their asses off.

Once fame set in, Kurt, you kind of had a little bit of an attitude that, you know, kind of worked into the live performance, you know, and some people loved that. I saw the difference, you know, it was evident because they used to go out there and just play and you can tell you're so into it, man, and really just like loving the support.

Because I think he felt like he deserved it and worked for it. But when all the accolades came on, you know, and all the freaking celebrity came, it just rubbed Kurt the wrong way. Because he wasn't that kind of person. Just wasn't. Speaking of the Black Album, there's been so much re-embracing of your 80s stuff, which of course is beyond essential and amazing stuff.

And a lot of your 2000s albums have returned and advanced the 80s stuff. But I feel like it's important not to let actually the Black Album and Load and Reload get lost in the shuffle. I mean, the Black Album, I was re-listening to it just this week. It's got to be one of the best sounding rock albums, period. Metal, rock, anything across the...

The board. It's one of the most powerful sounding albums ever recorded. Agreed, man. And the drum sound is amazing. And every time I hear that sound, that drum sound, it sounds so big, man. And so easy to listen to.

You turn it up, you know, and it gets louder. And you're like, yeah, turn it up even more because it's so easy to listen to. It's so easy on the ears listening to that big drum sound, that big snare sound, those sizzly, like, reverb-drenched cymbals. Man, it's probably, you know, our best-sounding album hands down. And we put so much work into it to make sure it sounded good, bro. So much work into it.

If we would have put that much work into it and sound like crap, you know, but no, we lucked out and we hit the mark. You know, sometimes you hit the mark. Sometimes you miss the mark and missing the mark is important. You know, it's important because it brings you back down to planet Earth and grounds you and say, OK, you know, let's be honest about our next approach.

We're really honest about this approach, and we followed it through, but people just didn't understand it. Let's try another approach and just be totally honest about it, and hopefully it works. That's really the attitude. Because we can't just go in there going, okay, we've written these songs, they're custom-made for every sort of Metallica fan to like.

If you do that, bro, you end up with substandard results, bro, because you're watering it down. You're softening the edges. You're not playing what's in your heart or what's in your gut or what's in your cojones, you know? And that's so important. Listening to your gut leads you to other places that you wouldn't have otherwise been trying to steer it.

So Metallica is a lot of spontaneity at first to try and figure out what the music is shaping like. Then once we get enough of the music and get cobbled together a more clear picture of how the album is collectively sounding,

then that influences the way the rest of the album is written and recorded. Your lead work on that album, on the Black Album, was a whole new thing for you at the time. What do you remember about the Enter Sam Mansell, which is such a great moment? ♪

It's so crazy because all the solos, you know, came together really, really quickly. It felt like the solos were writing itself. All I needed to do was like find the notes, finger them, and just put it down on tape. And, you know, it was a remarkable sort of thing because I remember sitting down with Lars in my hotel room, you know, before we ever even went into the studio to start doing solos. I played him all this stuff. I mean, it's just like, wow.

wow, there isn't that much really to do other than, you know, just record what you already have. But then there was songs I had no idea what to do for, you know, and I did kind of had to like,

you know, stretch out. Like I didn't know what to do for, for Unforgiven. We never really had a song like Unforgiven at that point, you know, which was like light choruses and heavy verses. You know, all our ballads were the opposite, you know, light verses and heavy choruses. Unforgiven was totally inverted.

And so, you know, that was great. I thought, oh, this is great. But then I found myself trying to fit square pegs into round holes back then. And it took being spontaneous to put down the solo that works. And, you know, that was one of my very first tastes of what it feels like to just, like, show up with nothing and then wait until something spontaneously shows up.

And I've found over the years, I usually that's the best stuff. The stuff I don't think about is usually the best stuff.

Because it just comes to me. And if it just comes to me in a natural way, there's kind of like an organic sort of feel to it. And so that's how I come up with everything these days, bro. I just sit there with my guitar and see what happens. I refuse to work hard on anything. What I mean by working hard is like, you know, eh.

analyzing it and trying to see, oh, if I change this note and this has to work with this, you know, it feels like I'm doing algebra after all. I don't want it. I failed algebra two years in a row. I'm not going to want to do algebra when it comes to music. I want to sit there and see what the universe and the muse sends me.

And bro, in the last 10 years, I've gotten great results. And all I really have to do, and I do this practically every day, I go, okay, sit here, clear my mind, and start just moving my fingers, moving my hands, and inevitably, something comes.

And it's a beautiful thing. And I feel so blessed and lucky that this is happening, you know, because I'm 62 fucking years old, you know, and a lot of artists when they're 62 years old, they're winding things down. I feel like I'm still fucking climbing the summit, bro. Haven't reached the top of the mountain yet. I still feel like I'm improving, but

And I still have a lot of frigging creative momentum and energy in me to the point where it's just like, I'm creating more work for myself. And I had to be careful. We've had like 700 riffs for the last album, supposedly. Oh, it's ridiculous, bro. Because, you know, okay, let me see how many riffs I have at this point. Okay. Yeah.

Oh, man. All recordings, 767. And this is 767 new ones for the next one. New ones, bro. Oh, God. It is such a nightmare going through this stuff, too. It is such a fuck. I can't do it.

And I'm the one responsible for all of it. And I can't do it. Sometimes they ask you to like, can you pare it down? Can you pick your best 300, right? Well, Rob Chihil is an extremely patient individual.

And he doesn't mind taking on a task like that. And I just, I just shake my head and say, God bless you, man. You're my bro. There's a reason why you're so much my bro, because it's just a lot of material to go through. And so right now I'm just actively getting ideas together and,

for my second solo album. Oh, wow. And I guess the best way for me to describe it is it's going to be a fusion of all sorts of styles, but not necessarily a fusion album. You know what I mean? Right. Not jazz fusion. Not jazz fusion. No, I started out, this is like, I'm going to write a jazz fusion album, but all of a sudden I'm writing fucking classical progressions and I'm fucking, you know, and all of a sudden I'm like,

Fucking writing like more heavy stuff And all of a sudden I'm writing like a funk thing I'm like going okay I guess this is what it is You know this is what it is It's a fusion of different styles And uh It's gonna be a full length album Um my last one I don't know if you heard it or not Yeah it's really cool It's still a half hour worth of music But this is gonna be a full album's worth of music

Excellent. And all instrumental again? No, there will be vocals because, you know, the songs that I wrote just scream for vocals this time around. So I'll be like, okay, who's going to be doing the vocals? I don't know. I hope I'm not. We already have too much to do on stage. But, you know, it's interesting because I started to learn how to read ancient Greek. Huh.

And, you know, I've been obsessed with a lot of ancient Greek texts. Pythagoras, you know, he's the father of fucking musical theory. And, you know, I'm discovering that the guitar, the lyre, and the kithara are ancient. So ancient that they can't figure out the origins of these instruments. And the Greeks just say that there's gods. They just showed up with them.

Dionysus and Apollo, they just showed up playing these things. And so there's so much reference to music in the ancient texts in regards to rite, ritual, and magic.

And it's so interesting to me because, you know, I see parallels. The Greeks used to use music to augment the rituals, you know, their secret rites. And music was so highly regarded back then.

And I'm reading all of this and I'm going, I'm shaking my head going, yes, I can see how they would use all this. Cause I firmly believe that if there's any true, real true example of what magic is in this world, it's music, bro. Music is magic, bro.

Magic is music. Music is magic. Because all you need to do is sit in front of someone and play an instrument and they're moved by it. You have the ability to change the situation in the room by playing music. When people hear certain types of music, they're transformed. If you don't think that's magic, what is it? Science? Come on, give me a break.

It's more than that, you know? And so I spend a lot of time thinking about stuff like this. Sorry to say. No, no. What's the timeline on the soul album? I'm hoping to bring it out at a time where it doesn't conflict with Metallica's schedule. So it's probably going to be sometime next year. I'm going to try and finish it by the end of this year. And because I've been reading all these ancient Greek texts, they've influenced the music a

I have an instrumental piece that to me sounds like it's 2,000 years old called the Mysterion. Nice. And it's based on all this stuff that I've been reading, the ancient Greek texts.

And it's amazing to me, bro, because I wouldn't have had this instrumental if I didn't start reading these ancient texts. So something's happening. Something unseen and invisible is happening, bro, to me, because I'm being sent all this music, and I feel like an antenna or a vessel, right?

I'm just, you know, the muse whispers music into my ear every single fucking day. I need to act on it or else I'll stop. And that's kind of where, you know, where I'm at these days.

I'm having my own freaking weird experience, my own musical experience in the close confines of my house writing and doing demos for this music. It feels almost like I'm stepping on the paranormal, bro, because

Like I said, I refuse to work hard on anything, but the music's still coming. And it's taking shape into songs, tracks, great musical ideas. And all I can really do is say thank you to whoever, because I refuse to take...

my ego and put it into this and take responsibility for the saying, I created all this because it doesn't even feel like that. Honestly, it does not feel like it. I'm just like fucking passing something along. Yeah. It's craziness. I know it's hard to freaking wrap. I'm having problems wrapping my head around it because you know,

I need to understand things. I'm a seeker of knowledge. So I need to understand things. And this I can't fully understand. So I'm looking to other ways to explain it, you know. And it's living somewhere in the unseen.

And people are going to think I'm crazy, but you know what? I'll just play you the fucking music and you guys figure it out. The unseen is sitting right there as a song title. So that's okay. So you know how I see that? I see music as an invisible temple. You know, when you listen to the music, the four walls come up. Harmony, tone, rhythm, and melody. Wow. And you're in this temple listening and like experiencing it.

And then when the song ends, you know, the temple, the walls come down and you're left with an experience. I've been struggling with all this stuff the last two or three years.

I don't even, I don't have any answers that sound logical. And you know, any answer that I can give you that's like, uh, like steep in some sort of sensibility just sounds like bullshit to me. And I'm not a bullshitter. So you obviously, then you have the 762 other riffs. Do you have any kind of timetable for the next Metallica album?

When we have a band meeting, and it's usually Lars who says the line, okay, boys, time to create the riff bank. That's when we all step up, you know. But, you know, I don't foresee that happening for at least another year, you know, because we're still finishing the 72 Seasons tour.

And once we fully finish this and go to like, you know, all the outlying places like Asia and Australia and New Zealand and whatnot, I think we're going to take a little bit of a break, not too much of one. And then we're going to get right back into it. Hopefully. That's what I see. But, you know, in Metallica, any fucking thing can happen. I mean, like COVID really just frigging surprised the hell out of us and threw our whole cycle off.

We managed to get our heads together and figure out a way to work during COVID. And the result of that is 72 seasons. And 72 seasons turned out better than any of us expected. Given the circumstance of fucking COVID and like writing via Zoom. Writing songs via Zoom. It's not ideal, man. I want to feel that kick drum in my gut.

you know, but you can't get that through zoom, but still we managed to fucking focus and be as precise as we could. I mean, you know, under the circumstances we made what I think is a pretty decent album. For sure. What's interesting is I wouldn't mind hearing you guys pursue that nineties stuff, that direction again. Yeah.

Who knows? We might just like say, okay, let's go back to the nineties again. It's not a bad idea. We haven't said that to each other yet. And you know, it's interesting because like when load and reload came out, there was a lot of derision, you know, there was a lot of backlash. It was like too much change. We changed our parents. We changed our sound. They changed the way we recorded, uh,

I was even playing different guitars, you know, and fucking tuned into E flat and listened to a lot of blues and jazz, you know. And so all those factors came out on Load and Reload to make what Load and Reload are. Load and Reload are so different from anything that came before it. It's interesting because nowadays I run into fans and they love that era, right?

They love Load and Reload But when those albums first came out It was like, fuck Load Fuck Reload, fuck Metallica But nowadays, people are like Fuck, we play Fuel And people go nuts Give me Fuel, give me Fire, give me that which I desire Ooh

It's like, you know, when I was a teenager, you know, I listened to all the Zeppelin albums except Zeppelin III. You know, because it was more acoustic and I just wanted the bang, high energy, aggressive stuff because that's what I loved when I was a kid, you know?

But over time, I really came to embrace Zeppelin III and how wonderful it is. And now I fully understand it and its place in Zeppelin's catalog. And I think a similar thing kind of happened with Load and Reload. After people got over the initial shock and the challenge...

People kind of sat down and gave an honest listen and said, oh, you know, it's not really that bad at the end of the day. You know what, man? I think a lot of people were reacting to the haircuts and the nail polish more than the music. They weren't hearing the music. They were just looking at you guys. I think that was about 60% of it. One of the reasons why I cut my hair, bro, is because I didn't think I looked good with long hair when I wore a suit jacket.

So I cut my hair so I'd look better when I wore a suit jacket. I swear to God. That was probably the only reason. It wasn't like any freaking huge thing. You know, I showed up, I cut my hair, and then literally the next day Lars cut his hair. Yeah.

You know, because he was already thinking about it. And so like James saw that Lars and I cut our hair and he went for it. You know, it wasn't anything that, you know, it just seemed like a cool kind of like nice change. And Jason's new set already had short hair by that point. You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries.

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Prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema. Also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. Ebglus can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Ebglus. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems.

You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglys. Before starting Epglys, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Searching for real relief? Ask your doctor about Epglys and visit epglys.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. The Memory Remains, which is a great song, obviously featured Marion Faithful, who just left us. Da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da.

Any memories of her standout? Well, man, you know, Lars and I, we loved Marianne, and we would hang out with her. And one time, Lars and I went out to dinner with Marianne Faithfull and Anita Palin. Wow. Boy, what a dinner that was.

And the stories we heard And you know Anita and Marianne really liked Hanging with Lars and I Because we Kept up with them Every fucking drink Every wine Everything you know We did a lot of drugs that night Laughter

And man, Marianne, amazing. She never slowed down. My question about that song, was it ever consciously inspired by Station to Station by David Bowie, the hook and the riff in Station to Station? There's a definite resemblance. Every time I hear Station to Station, I go Fortune, Fame, Mirror of Fame. It's a weird similarity. Oh, yeah.

Wow, you're absolutely right. You know, I don't know because James wrote that melody, but you have a point there. I love that song, man. Station to station. Speaking of unfairly maligned Metallica works, I've always felt that Lulu got a totally wrong and bad rap idea.

And I always liked that album. And what I was saying to people today, I was talking to a bunch of people working at Rolling Stone, and they all agree with me, as it turned out. And we were saying, if that album had never come out, but it got discovered today, and they say, hey, guess what? Metallica made a freaking album with Lou Reed. Check it out. People would be raving about it today. You know, I think you're correct in making that statement.

What happened was we always said this is not a Metallica album. Right. We always said that from the very beginning. This is a new thing with Lou Reed. We're a new entity. It's not Metallica. It's not Lou Reed. It's Lou Reed with Metallica. And this is Lulu. And bro, that album means so much to me for a number of reasons. The lyrics are amazing. It's poetry from track to track.

I'm a huge Lou Reed fan. To be able to hang out with him and work with him musically meant so much. And the track Junior Dad. Yeah. I can't listen to it, man. Brings me to tears. And remember when Lou said, I have a song for you.

And I want this to be on the album. And he played it for James and I. And by the end of the song, I looked at James and James looked at me. We both had tears in her eyes. And then Lou Reed came in and saw us both crying in the kitchen. And he's, and he smiled and said, I got you. Didn't I? I was like, fuck Lou. Yeah, you got, you got me and you got him too. Yeah.

He, he, he banned Wawa from that album and also wasn't into solo so much. I remember I started doing some Wawa stuff and he just went up to the mic and said, no. And he goes, no guitar solos. I'm like,

I'm like, okay. And then I remember at one point I was like, you know, we're looking for a part that went to a frigid and dominant, you know, it's kind of Eastern sounding scale. He went up to the mic and said, no belly dancing music.

Oh my God. I was laughing. I still, I'm still laughing. You could have said, but Lou, I'm personally responsible for popularizing the frigging dominant sound in metal. And then we came up with a song. I said to everyone, I'm putting a fucking guitar solo on this song. Cause I, I hear one, I put it on. It's like, I was like, great.

What are you going to tell Lou? I go, I don't know what I'm going to tell Lou. And then I had to sit down and write a fucking long-ass email explaining why I thought this song deserved a guitar solo.

Right. And I was so nervous about sending it. And so I sent it. And then I see Lou later on that day. Nothing. I see Lou the next day. Nothing. I see Lou third day. And he goes, oh, by the way, I got your email. And he said, it's OK. And that was it. And the solo was on the album.

Well, it's funny because he had, you know, he had a band with Mick Ronson and let him play for like hours. So I don't know what the deal was. I think what it was, was he in the 80s? Yeah. I think he had a guitar player that just like turned him off. I think that's what happened, man. Because the way he talked about the guitar and the guitar players sounded like there was some sort of personal thing that went down. And so, you know...

Hey, you know, he's Lou Reed. He can fucking think whatever the fuck he wants to think. I'm not going to fucking question him or challenge him on either of that. If he didn't like guitar solos, fine. It was my duty to find a guitar solo that he liked. And, you know, I managed to sneak one on there, you know.

Fans have been trying to make lists of all the main riffs that you wrote in Metallica songs. What are some that people don't realize? It's always wrong, too. I see those lists. And I think, like, no! The truth is, because no one can figure it out.

I mean it's just like freaking like looking at out on a crowd of people and going okay who likes spaghetti? Oh I think you like spaghetti and you like spaghetti and maybe you like spaghetti you know it's literally that a crowd of riffs and people trying to fucking randomly pick out which ones I wrote good luck

What are the ones that people should, I mean, maybe you don't care, but what, what obviously you understand, man, there's a few other big ones that people know about, but what, what are the ones that, you know, kind of want to claim ownership of that? Hey, people should know. I wrote that one. Well, you know, for death magnetic, I wrote so much of that stuff. I love that album. That album is chocked full of riffs and a lot of those riffs, uh,

This just came out of one of my stockpiles of like 300 or 400 riffs, but that was a time when Rob took those riff tapes and went through them all. And a lot of times when it was like, we need a riff, everyone looked to Rob because he had a whole glossary of vocabulary of riffs they set aside. He said, okay, we have this one. Will this one work out? And they were like...

Okay. And when he was playing stuff to me, I would say, that's my riff? And he'd say, yeah. I'm just trying to think. You know, I don't know.

No, man. You know, I'll tell you, I think one of the heaviest riffs I think I've ever written was that kind of like one bridge riff in The Thing That Should Not Be. To this day, I just love that riff. And we haven't really come up with a riff since then that's like that. And that riff is like...

I think that's one of the heaviest things I've ever written ever. And I'm still trying to like write a riff that even like touches the glory of that riff, you know? And that's what I find myself doing, you know, trying to like grab the fire of, of certain risks that we've written in the past and like write something like it, that, that, that, that's similar, but different, or just like steal that feel, steal the fire, you know?

And I am a big, big, big advocate of ripping ourselves off. I've seen in the past other bands just rip themselves off. So when someone says, oh, we freaking did that, you know, I say, hey, we have every right to repeat ourselves when we want to. Because, again, it's part of our glossary. It's part of our vocabulary. It's part of our bag of tricks, right?

You know, so I think we've earned the right to like reuse one or two of these techniques, you know. We never though blatantly ever repeat ourselves note for note ever.

We'll do something like something else. Absolutely. I think that's fair. You know, it's interesting, like the Rolling Stones, right? The Rolling Stones, every step of the way, they've been kind of the first in some ways. Right now, they just were the kind of the first people to make a hard-hitting rock album in their 80s. You know, they just made that. But you guys are also, in your own way, the first of your kind in some ways, because, you know, there was not like a...

metal band as heavy as you continuing on into your 60s. So here you are in your 60s, still getting on stage, still in the studio, sounding like Metallica, still able to play the old stuff.

And it's just sort of, I guess, a question is like, and maybe there's no limit, but how long can you guys physically do this and still, you know, sound like you did, you know, 30, 40 years ago, which you're amazingly, you're still doing? Well, you know, a lot of it has to do with just like, I think personal health, you know, I think we're all pretty, pretty healthy and pretty fit.

And sometimes I freaking forget how old I am because I don't feel...

Like I'm 62 years old. I feel like I'm still somewhere in my 30s. And, you know, I go out and surf, you know, I bike, I run, I walk. I do all sorts of fucking crazy stuff, you know, physically. I'm still able to freaking do everything I do, you know. I do yoga every day. I meditate every day. And I don't feel like I'm winding down. If anything, you know, things are ramping up around me. Mm-hmm.

And I know that I'm not the only band member who feels this way. I mean, you know, Lars is in really great shape, too. You know, as long as we have our health and our minds, I think we can just keep on going. And Rob Trujillo's in excellent health, too. And Rob Trujillo doesn't even have gray hair. You know, how amazing is that?

And so, you know, I don't know what it is, maybe playing this music or maybe just being in this band is somewhat of a fountain of youth for us and keeping us youthful. Because, you know, it's how you feel, which is a good gauge of how old you really are, you know, physically and mentally, emotionally, spiritually.

Bro, I feel like I'm still in my late 30s and I just have no plans to give up anything because this is my life. Yeah. I play guitar every single fucking day. I have a guitar on right now. Love it.

I'm OCD. And I can't help it, but I still, I love what I do. I love, I just love music. And I think about it and I think from the very beginning, music has always been around. I can remember as a toddler hearing bossa nova music, jazz music, Broadway, classical music.

I can remember songs that I would hear when I was five or six years old. I know the Beatles songs I heard back then. I know the Hendrix songs I heard back then. I remember hearing them back then. I don't know if this is true with all musicians, but man, there's always music in my head. I have a feeling it's true with a lot of musicians, but there's always music in my head. There's a

friggin' jukebox in my head. You mentioned a song from one of my favorite bands and I can listen to it in my head.

I can write and compose without a guitar by visualizing and hearing things in my head. I feel blessed. It feels paranormal. And it all feels so familiar. It feels like I've been doing this for longer than my lifetime. Which means, because I believe in reincarnation, I believe in former lives, I'm starting to believe that I've always been a musician, bro.

the act of playing music seems so natural and the effects of music on other people. I know, I know I'm familiar with it, with the outcomes of that, you know, and I strive to be inspiring force to people because musicians have inspired me. And man, that gift of inspiration is hard and heavy. And when I'm inspired, nothing can stop me until I've,

played out that inspiration. You know, inspiration is so effective and I want to be able to like

feel like I can inspire musicians out there to write the music of the future. That's what really means a lot to me, bro. That's what means a lot to me is inspiring other people to do what I'm doing. You know, I don't have a monopoly on this or anything. You know, I don't, I don't want to have a monopoly. I want other people to go out there and do exactly what I'm doing and the way I'm doing it and make the music of the future, man. I love that. You know, now,

I just, I just, I don't like my celebrity. And, you know, so I have a real hard time balancing it all. Like I said, I want to be inspiring, but then, you know, I don't want a lot of the attention. Yeah. I want to just be able to like do what I do, you know, put the art out there and just move on to the next thing. Because that's what I feel like is what I'm here to do.

And, you know, everything that comes in the wake of that is just gravy. But I have no expectations. I have no financial expectations. You know, I'm not looking for status. I just want to put the best art out there with no ego. Because ego and things like freaking financial gain and greed stain the whole process. Mm-hmm.

I believe. For me, bro, like in the last 10 years, it's all about being as pure as possible and really, you know, playing for the music. And, you know, it's a great place for me to be.

because then I don't have to stress about all this shit that I thought I had to stress about. Because I figured out that in the bigger picture, it doesn't matter when it comes to the music. For me, it's all about the music. When you said music of the future, it reminded me of something I was going to ask about. There's a guy named Tim Henson, he's the guitarist in Polyphia. Are you familiar with him?

He had that quote, and his playing is just, it's like from another planet. And he had that thing where he called, you know, basically bluesy bending. He called it boomer bends. And I was just curious what you thought of that. I love that, but you know.

Is he going to call Eddie Van Halen a boomer guitar player? Right. I really like his style. It's really unique. And in terms of technique, it's amazing. But then it's the age-old question. How relatable is it?

It's good to listen to three or four times, but can you really relate? Sometimes people just want to listen to music and not feel challenged. Sometimes people just want to feel raw emotion. Is he hitting on raw emotion? No, it's so complicated. It's a very distinct emotion that he's shooting for. And therefore...

How accessible is it on a larger scale? Well, it's only accessible to people who like that or can understand that. It's a very small category of people. And you know, that's absolutely fine if he wants to reach that category of people. And yeah, it's amazing playing. But at the end of the day, you know, people want something that they consider like bread and butter. Yeah.

You know, or meat and potatoes, something that's comforting and satisfying and fills all their needs.

and it's not that hard. And you know, they're great at what they're doing, but I also know that sound, only a certain amount of people have patience for that, or even the musical temerity to actually understand the breadth of it. And once you understand the breadth of it, it's huge, it's great, it's wonderful. And I love watching him play

But man, after a while, I'm probably going to go and like, you know, put on a fucking, you know, a Jeff Beck album. Yeah.

You know, or fucking Mrs. Stevie Ray Vaughan or maybe put on the Misfits or something. And then, you know, I tell you, I'll get more out of a fucking Misfits album singing along and screaming and yelling than I'll do out of like, you know, something really technically challenging. Right. At the same time, you and I both like Rush so that, you know, there's always room for...

Complexity. I'm totally into Jazz Fusion. I love Weather Report. Tony Williams is one of my favorite drummers. I love Alan Holdsworth. I love all that really fucking complicated shit. But it's just like you're demanding a certain amount of effort from the listener.

And a lot of people commit to that, but a lot of people just can't be bothered, you know? And a lot of people who can't be bothered are the people who have so much in their lives anyway. You know, and then you add something so freaking complicated to a person whose life is already complicated. They're just going to go, oh, I just want to hear Green Day. Yeah.

So, you know, it's just like it's a conundrum. It's just like, you know, this has existed in music forever. You know, full on symphonies versus chamber orchestra, which is only six pieces. It's been around forever. You know, the complication of music and whether it's good or not for the music world.

overall, the simplicity of music and whether that's good overall. It's like an endless debate. But there's definitely an audience for both. I just happen to be a little bit more connected to my instinct and my gut

And, you know, some people just want just raw energy or raw emotion on a plate and they want it now. And that's what I think we deliver in droves. And then finally, in your book, I guess in season three of the Batman TV show is when Cesar Romero as the Joker goes surfing and you have a guitar with the image of him with a surfboard on it. That is a wild guitar. Yeah.

Bro, I love that episode. And it's just like so hilarious because, you know, it's shot in Malibu, right? And like, you know, Cesar Romero and Bruce Wayne, they did all the beach shots. But then they got some pro surfers and dressed them up like Batman and the Joker to actually do all the surfing. And it's vintage mid-60s surfing. Surfing back then was crazy.

completely different from surfing now so i mean it is such a hilarious episode i just love the fact that the joker had his own surfboard you know he had a joker brand surfboard so yeah i mean i love that episode so much i just had to put that scene of him with the surfboard on a guitar

And then, you know, a lot of people want me to put that out as a mass produced guitar. But, you know, it's difficult because I had to deal with the TV studios. Right. And it makes it just a lot more complicated than it should be. But, man, I get a lot of freaking requests for my guitar to be mass produced because it's such a great image. And I agree. I love the image. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, listen, Kirk, that was such a pleasure. The book is The Collection, Kirk Hammett. It's gorgeous. Everyone should check it out. And thank you so much for making the time to talk. Thank you.

And that's our show. We'll be back next week. In the meantime, subscribe to Rolling Stone Music Now wherever you get your podcasts. And please leave us five stars and a nice review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify because that's always appreciated. But as always, thanks so much for listening and we will see you next week.

Michael Rosenbaum and his Smallville co-stars take you behind the scenes of one of the greatest shows of all time. We're going to watch every episode. Join us. It's Big Talk. You remember when I had to shave my head? Oh, I think I was angry with this one. On Smallville. Yeah, I mean, I get it. The scene you did, this is the one that got me fired. Okay. What? Here we go. I love the excursions with me and Welling. It's everything that Superman stands for.

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