Why Can't Mariah Carey, Oasis, and Phish Get Into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
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I'm Brian Hyatt. This is Rolling Stone Music Now. I'm here with Andy Green, and we're going to talk about this year's class of inductees at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and also some of the people who were left out. The class in question, the people who made it in, are Bad Company, Shelby Checker, Joe Cocker, Cindy Lauper, OutKast, Stingy,

Soundgarden and the White Stripes. They also pulled in through the Musical Influence Award and the Musical Excellence Awards, and they're kind of treating these the same as other inductees now. But what it means is they were pulled in by the Hall of Fame itself, not the voters. Who makes that decision? Do you know? It's the board itself. Okay. The board itself. The board is kind of like in severance, I assume. Someone has a headset on and the mysterious board speaks to them. Well,

But their names are public. Nominating committee. - Okay, the nominating committee. You said the board, so the nominating committee. - Excuse me, the nominating committee, I'm pretty sure are the ones, it's approved by the board, which you know, John Sykes. - Gotcha.

Okay. Well, anyway, those people are... Musical Influence Award goes to Salt-N-Pepa and the late Warren Zevon. And Musical Excellence Award to Tom Bell of Philly Soul fame. And the great session pianist, Nicky Hopkins, who was the only human being on earth who played with the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, and The Who. He played on Revolution by the Beatles and many, many Stone songs and Who songs. Very deserved there. And then...

Another great session musician, Carol Kay, who's just incredible. Bassist, mostly. So that's the class. And then for the Ahmet Erdogan Award for Business People was Lenny Warnker. He was president of a bunch of labels, I think most notably Warner Brothers Records. Yeah, so that guy too. And the father of the great drummer. Yeah, good point. So that's the class. There is a little bit more outrage than usual here.

over the people left out. The people left out include Mariah Carey, who just can't seem to catch a break from the Hall of Fame. In general, she can definitely catch a break. Fish, who I believe that was the first time they were nominated. And they won the fan vote, too, which was really angering people. Well, the problem is the fan vote

is not in any real way meaningful for to get denomination. So I sort of wonder why they do it. Cause all it does is potentially anger people. A million email addresses that they can blast off things too. It's basically like a ruse. Okay. Now we know why they do it. Also left out were Oasis. Also left out were the Black Crows and Joy Division slash New Order, who were, you know, of course two different bands, but with considerable membership overlap, uh,

And even paired, they couldn't get in, which is a bummer. The Faces and the Small Faces, as you point out, were inducted also as one band. And they have less shared DNA than Joy Division in order. Right. Maybe they should pair them with a third unrelated band like the Smiths and see how many bands they need to group them with, and then they can get in. Yeah.

But I would say that the ones that people are most upset about, I think-- well, let's say Mariah Carey, I think, is probably chief among them. I mean, this is-- well-- I think the Phish fans are the angriest, I'd say, just because they're Phish fans. Yeah. And it's such a big band. They're the heirs to the Grateful Dead in most every way. They've been doing this for 40 years. They couldn't be more popular. They're a singular thing. And to say they're not worthy, it just is kind of crazy. Yeah.

- Well, I wouldn't underestimate the wrath of the lambs either. I think that Mariah's fans are also quite upset. And I think the difference is this is Fish's first time, this is Mariah's what, like third time or something being turned? - Second or third. - I mean, let's start with Mariah.

It's kind of shocking, especially now, to look back. If you look at the Rolling Stone album guide in the 90s, I hate to say it, but Mariah Carey's catalog is dismissed as quote-unquote piffle. In that entry, I remember clearly. Again, it's hard to remember now because we love Mariah. Mariah is now critically as well as commercially acclaimed artist. But back then, critics weren't very down with that kind of music. Yeah.

She was so popular. She had so many hits that it just kind of turned off a lot of people. And I bring that up only because I'm trying to understand why the hell she isn't getting in. You talk to some voters. What they say is when they vote for an artist, to some degree, they're thinking, are they part of the rock universe in any way? Is there a rock attitude there?

or style of music. With all of hip-hop, it's very easy to say yes. But some people feel that singers like Mariah Carey don't have any rock to them at all, and thus it feels out of place in the Hall of Fame. I don't agree with that, but it's an attitude you'll hear from some people.

See, that's interesting. I mean, it comes down to this whole idea of what it starts to get into this semantic debate about what the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is. And for me, it's clearly, you know, at this point, a hall of fame for popular music of the rock era. This thing of finding a little bit of the rock rebellion in artists that are far afield from guitar based drums, rock feels a little silly to me. It does at the same time.

I think country, a pure country act may not belong in there. I think, you know, Johnny Cash, Enway Nelson, the outlaw like country variety. But would you think like Kenny Chesney would belong in there? It gets tricky. I mean, because otherwise it does become just the country hall of fame. I'll say this, Kenny Chesney, just to dig in on that particular example, that's someone who most of their fans are fans of country music.

Mariah Carey is not someone whose fans are just fans of whatever John Newer put her in, of R&B or pop slash R&B. Mariah Carey's fans are basically everyone with two ears and a heart at this point. And so I think that she's a broad enough artist that if you're comparing her to Kenny Chesney, which I don't think you are, I think that'd be very invalid. It would. It is brought in Cher last year. If you count the Sonny and Cher stuff, she's been eligible for decades. Yeah.

Well, that's, you know, listen, there has been some sexism embedded into some of the assumptions about who should get in. I don't think that should be denied. And I think that in Cher's case, that was one of the reasons. Yeah. And Carole King was only in until a few years ago with Goff and King songwriters. And Tina Turner was just in as Ike and Tina. That's unfortunate. Yeah. So much of her best music and most famous music was solo. Yeah.

You know, so there's some problems there. I think fundamentally the voting base and...

I can now speak perhaps more objectively on this, because I'm not a voter anymore. Because what happened is I didn't turn in my ballot a couple of times during the pandemic. And then they just yanked me from the rolls. And I haven't inquired about returning to the rolls, which I'm sure wouldn't be hard. But as a non-voter, I can say-- so what we know about the voters for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is it includes every inductee, correct? MARK BLYTH: It's about 1,200 people. It's every living inductee, and then assortment

of journalists and industry insiders. MARK BLYTH: They made a real effort in recent years to bring in more people from marginalized groups, more women, and just generally to diversify the voting base, right? DAVID KELLEY: Yes, but they haven't quite gone far enough, it seems like. MARK BLYTH: It's tough. I mean, I'm not saying abandon all standards. I'm just saying, to me, if Mariah Carey isn't getting in

There's a problem. Yeah. Our colleague, the leadership, Paul, wrote a great piece about this. What more do you want from Mariah Carey? And of course, I'm even more biased because Mariah was on this podcast and we, you know, I'm a huge longtime fan. We had a great conversation. One of the things she talked about was this alt rock album that she secretly recorded in

in the 90s, and maybe if she releases her rock album like Dolly Parton, then she can get in. Yeah, I talked to one voter who was like, you know, I think Whitney Houston, that she brings a rock attitude to her music, and Mariah doesn't. Is it because Whitney Houston was on drugs? I'm not, I'm saying it's fair. I mean, literally, is that what they mean? Quite possibly. All I'm saying is there's a sense that you need some rock attitude, however you define that,

And some people don't see it in Mariah. I think that's unfair. I would bet that there's people, some of the older voters are in that weird dismissive, honestly, perhaps a little sexist, racist dismissal of Mariah from the 90s. And they're so old that they were old in the 90s. Right. So...

When she was scoring all these hits in the 90s, they weren't into it, you know? Yeah, and they don't see that now she's this, you know, sort of uncontested legend. If you're a 70-year-old music biz lifer, which I imagine there's a number of those on the voting ranks, you might be not fully conversant with the legendary status of Mariah Carey. Yeah. Or if you're some member of a doo-wop group and you're like 98 years old, you know, it's just...

Yeah, I mean, it is interesting. You have to wonder, sometimes you wonder how much name recognition, if we knew how people voted, it's sort of like when you get those, people have done interviews, you know, those anonymous interviews with voters, both for the Hall of Fame and for the Oscars. And when they actually explain their reasoning, you sort of want to bang your head against the wall. It's often insane. Another snub.

pretty interesting is fish. I have a complicated relationship with fish. I'm not a hardcore fish head. I really do appreciate what they do. I've enjoyed the shows I've seen by them. I'm probably going to see them this summer. I think what they've achieved

achieved is sort of undeniable. Yeah, they're an island unto themselves, though. You're either in the fish community or you know almost nothing about them. And unlike the dead, they have 0.0 famous songs that any non-fish fan can name. There's some dead songs that really permeate the culture. No fish songs have ever.

When they do festivals, there's one band on the bill. For a three-day festival, it's Only Fish. You're either into it or you're not. And I think to a lot of voters, particularly older ones, they're not into it and they don't know about it. MARK BLYTH: Yeah, not only did they never have their touch of gray, their late period hit, they never had the early period hits, unless you count things like--

People who lived in a college town in the 90s know Bouncing Around the Room. Sure, but it's a small percent of non-Fish fans know even that song. The place I saw was far beneath the surface of the sea.

It's weird. I can't believe this is like the second time in a month that I'm talking about how Fish had no hits. The last time was with Chris Barron of the Spin Doctors. We were talking about how Chris has way more hits than Fish. Way more. But Fish will play 13 nights at the Garden. Yes, this is the exact discussion we had. Sorry for listeners who are hearing this same conversation over and over again. But your point about them being an island unto themselves is important. I think that can be a problem with...

the kind of people who vote for the Hall of Fame, who book the Grammys as well. You've never seen Trey Anastasio at a Kennedy Center Honors event playing tribute for someone or something. - A couple weeks ago, he was at that Beacon event,

that yearly... It's an annual benefit for God's Love We Deliver called the Love Rocks New York City. Love Rocks. So it was Trey played with Cher and he was beaming with joy the whole time because it's such a opportunity to be a part of that world. And let's see here now when he played with Bruce, it was also really rare to see him do that because usually he's just playing with his own band or with Fish.

It is true that they're not on TV much. They're not, you know-- Yeah, they don't play SNL. They don't play on the Grammys and never have, as far as I know. My advice to them is to do what Rush did. If they want to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,

And again, you know, we always give away free advice. That's way too good on this podcast. But my genuine advice is they just need to do a really good documentary. Yeah. The thing is, it humanizes them, et cetera. It'll be fascinating. I wonder how much they care though, because they're doing pretty damn well right now. Without saying exactly why I know for a fact they care. Okay. Well, they,

didn't get in. And it's bullshit because I'm not a real Phish fan, but they fascinate me. They're great guys. They're brilliant musicians. And they've achieved a remarkable thing that most people aren't even aware of. It's impossible to make the case that they don't belong in the Hall of Fame because they

look what they've built they're not really an island unto themselves they're like a megapolis they build for themselves this whole world of music that only exists in their world and the true successors to the grateful dead it's just undeniable and the same four guys the whole time still putting out new music still doing really adventurous bold concerts aren't just all these reviews it's the

and gets just very underappreciated by mainstream culture. It's weird, and not to return too heavily to the hits thing, let's say they had some huge fluky hit in like 1997. Yeah. It's always possible that something like that could derail you too. It wouldn't hurt you. I'm fascinated by this topic that when Devo put out Whip It, it ruined the band forever. Who gave the pass to Slug?

You don't want your whippet if you want to be authentic. But if they somehow had a hit and yet continued on the same trajectory, they'd be more likely to be in the Hall of Fame. Yeah, and what Touch of Grey did to The Grateful Dead was enormous. I will do it.

Fish are much older than the Grateful Dead were when they had Touch of Grey, right? Well, Jerry Garcia, when he died, was 53. Trey just turned 60. Yeah, so it's too late for them to have a Touch of Grey. It's ridiculous. It's just ridiculous to think that any song they write could be a hit, like a mainstream hit on the same chart as Taylor Swift. Was Touch of Grey like a top 10 pop hit?

Let's see. I'm not sure about that, but it was sure a radio hit. It was sure all over MTV and VH1. It moved them from arenas to stadiums. Touch of Grey was number nine on the Hot 100 in 1987. It was a weird era, though, where the Beach Boys and the Moody Blues were having these huge pop hits, too. Like, Kokomo was, like, number one. Aruba, trying to take you through Bermuda, boy.

What the hell was the Moody Blues one? In Your Wildest Dreams. It was huge. Oh, right. That was Moody. Oh, God. I completely blanked on that. Once upon a time in your wildest dreams.

A middle-aged white man was a great thing to be in 1987. Steve Winwood had like 50 top 10 hits. Paul Simon. And Rod Stewart, Phil Collins, Billy Joel, Elton John. Part of it was VH1, I think. People don't remember that there was VH1 was like the older uncool MTV and would show just an unending parade of Eric Clapton videos. Just anything that was just like sounded really good in a divorced 40 year old's car.

in 1987. Right, yeah, that helped a lot. If Phish backed a song that ended the beef between Olivia Rodrigo and Taylor Swift and was a duet and Phish were the backing musicians, that's the only way they could have a hit. Yes, it's just that. It's just sort of that. They cannot have a hit. It's not possible. The laws of physics will not allow it. The laws of gravity, the laws of the universe, they forbid it. You've never seen Olivia Rodrigo wearing a Phish t-shirt. They're not cool like that.

They're a different kind of cool. But you can't say that fish don't have a rock and roll spirit. I know someone who wore a fish shirt somewhere to like a, it was like a school trip to Africa or something in the late 90s. A local came up to them and said, fish, drugs? Yeah.

So Trey is very sober now. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, look, in an age when, you know, a lot of concerts have many prerecorded elements, to say the least, this is still an enormous band who goes on stage and in some ways has no idea what they're going to do that night in an arena and creates every bit of that night's performance from scratch on stage. And that deserves all the credit in the world. Yeah, it's remarkable.

So anyway, fish heads are super mad. They shouldn't have been surprised, though, because I was 100% expected this one. It was, but most previous years, the fan vote winner does win, because it's often this big thing. It's often a very popular artist. I expected it because of what you said, the fact that

They don't have any hits. You're either a fish head or you're not. When they were most pop culturally relevant in the 90s, there's a lot of people who were turned off to them by annoying fish heads in the 90s. There was a real divide between people who loved them and didn't. And I've heard people in the industry say, like, I fucking hated fish since the 90s. And it's very hard to get past that for some people.

Yeah. I got to college in the year 2000 and I could divide the entire student body into two camps, the fish fans and the non-fish fans. It was two very distinct groups of people. So it was kind of inevitable, but they definitely deserve to get in and hopefully they will eventually. It's going to be brutal if they join Mariah in the crowd of people who just keep not getting in.

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Oasis didn't get in. Well, they had two things that were working against them. I would argue. Yeah, Britishness and 90s Yeah, the Hall of Fame is an American institution You speak to a lot of Brits and they don't understand it really I've interviewed new acts and got in like from England like like the guys in Genesis and they don't know what it is really and it's a real American thing so giant British acts

like the smits are not in and then groups like the cure and depeche mode took forever just forever and they were such shoe-ins uh that oasis is a 90s group from england that's two big strikes against them if this can happen the voting base isn't right it's as simple as that i'm sorry yeah they need to add like 500 new voters

At least because, you know, they needed to add people who would vote for, you know, who wouldn't automatically reject hip hop and stuff, which is extremely important. But somehow something went wrong. If Oasis, who were about to embark on a giant world stadium tour, has the most anticipated reunion in years since Guns N' Roses, at least.

If those guys who had some of the best and biggest rock songs, specifically, not just songs, rock songs for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, how do you write Live Forever and Champagne Supernova and even fucking Wonderwall and not get into the Hall of Fame? Someday you will pretty black as I lie.

I think in England that Oasis is a thing that started happening in '93 and never ended. In America, the phenomenon was '95 to '96. I saw them in 2000-ish in Akron, Ohio at a tiny theater. That's when they were playing stadiums still in the UK. Their American period of real popularity was brief. When they toured sheds in 2001 or whatever, it was with the Black Crows and the lawn was empty.

I was there. That's absolutely true. But I think again, what the voting base is perhaps too out of touch to realize is that is the story from the outside. But here in current culture, those songs are just so good. Those songs transcended generations. They are now in retrospect, clearly one of the biggest 90s bands, even in America.

For sure. But you should tell that to the members of like the Moonglows who are voting for this and you'll see what the problem is. And it's so funny. What are you going to say? I mean, Oasis, their music's pretty good, but they didn't really have any rock and roll spirit. They had no attitude at all. And you know, they weren't influenced by bands who were really in the canon, like the

They really just-- it's impossible to trace a historical lineage. I mean, we just don't see any reason to let away a Cezanne. And they didn't write anthemic songs that work in stadiums, really.

It's absolutely laughable. The more you think and talk about it, in that they fit all the criteria that even the most biased person who votes for the Hall of Fame should accept. Even by their own, like you're thinking about the rock and roll spirit, there's just no excuse for it. It's actually ridiculous. Yeah. And even, you know, I'll put in for the Black Crows. Of course the Black Crows should be in the Hall of Fame. I know they had their period of greatness, you could argue, wasn't that long. But like, come on, of course they should be in the Hall of Fame.

But before other 90s groups that aren't in yet. Yeah, who else from the 90s isn't in? There's no Smashing Pumpkins. There's no Weezer. God, I mean, there's no Pavement. And then if you go back to the 80s, there's no Sonic Youth.

There's no replacements. There's no smits. There's no Devo. And Joy Division slash New Order that didn't get in, to me, is the most egregious of the whole ballot. Yes, and we'll get to that in a second. Yes, most of those 90s groups deserve to get in before the black roast. Yes, but they were on the ballot this year. And the 90s disconnect is, there's just something terribly wrong there. Because it's a 25-year rule, so they're now the groups that started in the year 2000. The White Stripes are the first 2000s rock band to have gotten in.

It's actually a crisis that the Smashing Pumpkins, Weezer, Oasis...

None of these things are in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. These are bands that helped bring rock back to the absolute center of pop culture in the 90s. It's deranged. Yeah. No, it's deranged. They'd rather go back to the 60s and 70s and find stuff that they passed over 10 million times than even think about putting the pumpkins on the ballot. Smashing Pumpkins have been eligible for...

Since 2015, they have never been nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Now, I know Billy Corgan, and I'm learning more about this all the time. He alienated a lot of people in the business in the '90s. MARK BLYTH: Sure, sure, sure. MARK MIRCHANDANI: I think more than the recent La Palooza book that came out that we talked about in this pod helped edify me even more about how much he pissed people off. He really, really pissed people off. MARK BLYTH: It shouldn't matter at all. MARK MIRCHANDANI: No, it shouldn't. But just as a practical explanation, I think that's part-- but it is insane that they've never been nominated. It's inexcusable.

Yeah, it blows my mind. And there's a lot of Steve Van Zandt type voters or board members, and I love Steve, who really view rock as like a 60s, 70s thing. That that was the rock era. That's when the bands were great. The second MTV hit was all shit. That's an unfortunately widely shared mentality.

It's really unfortunate because, you know, and also it is that it does feel like in general that thing where Gen X always gets fucked over and everything. You know, it's because of the size of the generation and stuff, but it's absolutely nonsensical. And then, as you said, New Order Joy Division, if you're talking about...

absolutely essential influence that both of those groups I know that it's one continuation thing in some ways in a lot of ways but what Joy Division accomplished how they shaped the sound of the 80s and what New Order did to carry on the work and make it stadium size those songs live forever so influential without Joy Division you have no U2 even probably a million other things the whole 80s was created by these four guys whoa

I was about to bitch about Kraftwerk, but it turns out they actually were finally inducted in 2021. I forgot that. Kraftwerk were inducted as an early influence as if they're like Robert Johnson or something. Yes. Yes. Which they are. They're sort of the Robert Johnson of electronic music. They were inducted by Pharrell Williams in 2021 in the early influence category. Yeah. It was the COVID year when nobody could even go or play. Yeah.

That was one they just had to rectify. And then another one, I cannot believe that Warren Zivon needed to get in through the back door. That's another one that's completely wild. It's really a bummer. He's been dead for over 20 years now. I think that if you're dead, it works against you because you can't come and play the ceremony that's on the minds of the board and the voters. I mean, here's the thing, right? They're using, for the past few years, they're using the Musical Influence Award and the Musical Excellence Award

to backdoor people into the Hall of Fame. MARK BLYTH: Who the voters are never going to vote for. That LL Cool J was never getting in if they didn't do this. MARK MIRCHANDANI: They just treat it the same as other induction. MARK BLYTH: Yeah, they draw no distinction on the evening. The artists draw no distinction. I discussed it with Judas Priest and LL Cool J. It's the same thing to them.

I think what happened was, there was the year -- By the way, I don't think anyone has ever in the same sentence talked about speaking to Judas Priest at All Cool J, so I commend you. I spoke to the two of them both the same day, probably. But there was a year a few years ago where it was Chicago and Deep Purple and Cheap Trick and NWA and Steve Miller. I love NWA, but they didn't even play. It was a really weak year. If you just let the voters pick,

It'll keep being Steve Miller-type acts. They have to do the backdoor more and more, or it'll be madness.

You just opened the door to the wrath of Steve Miller. You better watch out. If he hears this, he's going to come after you. He's going to bring it on. Yeah. He's going to, yeah. He's going to fly in on a big old jet airliner and kick your ass. Yes. Yes, he will. One does wonder though, and this is where I was going with this. If they're using these back doors to get in so many people and treating it the same as the induction, uh,

Is there a world where they should just drop the vote and make it just a small committee and just do it? They should, because this has occurred to me. There's no King Crimson and there's no Iron Maiden. There's an anti-Prague and metal bias that will never go away. They should just drop the voters because they keep doing stupid shit, have the committee, broaden the committee to more people and younger people, and recognize a broader spectrum of music from this world

far off land that's called England, to them is like this other universe. And stop this madness. We're sort of like Anakin in Attack of the Clones, where we're advocating for the end of democracy here. If democracy can't see that King Crimson's an important man, then end democracy. Yes. Yeah, I think that's the...

I think actually, or a small unit democracy, yes, double or triple the size of the committee, make it extremely diverse and representative of all different types of people and music fans and et cetera, and musicians, and have that group of whatever it is, 30 people from all walks of music, as diverse as a group as you can possibly find,

but super knowledgeable and yeah and just pull the trigger i think that is i think that is our proposal here end it yeah yeah it's time to end it to save it steve vincennes can say i am the senate and you know in the oscars now they're doing a thing where they're making you have to show that you watched each movie so people are trying to to the point where people are apparently like clicking play and then leaving the room on things they don't want to watch so

But you can't do that. You can't give people a little quiz on each of the artists. So-- MARK BLYTH: Yeah, it should be like, name one song by Joy Division or you can't vote. JONATHAN HESS: Right. And by the way, the fact that they can't is why they're not voting for them. MARK BLYTH: Yes.

We should say, I mean, they've made impressive strides with diversity and trying to make up for past snubs of people and bring in people like Cher and increasingly bring in artists from hip hop and R&B and trying to rectify that. And I think that's all admirable. But in the Baseball Hall of Fame, they have a rule where if you don't get in for a certain number of years, then you're done because it's just unfair to the newer players.

I think the Hall of Fame needs to really just let go of the 70s and the 60s. They've done it. If those groups think it in on their first 25 attempts, then they're not worthy. That's enough of the 70s and 60s. Just close the door on those decades and be done with it.

Really? Because I'd have to look at who... Okay, then that gets... Now, on second thought, before that, you bring in the New York Dolls and King Crimson and a few other groups that I pick, and then you're done. Yeah, well... Yeah, because if you look at the list of snubs from the 70s, Barry White is not in. Oh.

Brian Eno is not in. They should do one super 70s year and bring in all of them. Just have a big disco party and bring in everybody. Holy shit. Diana Ross is not in. Well, solo. She's in with the Supremes. Even so. Let's see. Jethro Tull. I don't really care, but...

nonetheless, I'm just looking at sixties and seventies. Love is not in, I mean, the monkeys are still not in, which they deserve to be in. Yeah. So we'll see. You're going to, you've got to do a super class of like a hundred people, a super snub year where you bring them in the freaking dolls finally, and then be done with these decades. Cause if they don't do that, they're going to keep going back here and eventually be like the turtles and stuff. Yeah.

That's your worst nightmare is the turtles. So yeah, I mean, you know, very deserving people in this class for sure. Chubby Checker. What do you think about, I mean, obviously, obviously the twist. Let's do the twist. Incredibly significant song. And then of course he said the let's twist again, pioneered the sequel song. And then you had the pony, which is a great song. The pony, the pony, the pony, the pony.

The Oreo twist song from the commercial in the 80s.

Yeah, no, Chubby, I mean, he's important. That weird period post-50s pre-Beatles, he was one of the major figures of it. Of sort of keeping rock and roll spirit alive in the mainstream, yeah. Yeah. And that's not a small thing. It's fine. I'm certainly not going to begrudge Chubby Checker the induction. It's all good. And Joe Cocker's great. What would you do if I sang out of tune?

Joe Cocker is great. Long overdue for that. There's artists who have one hit who got in before Joe Cocker who was... He had a ton of hits as a singular artist. He didn't write a lot of those songs, but he was one of the best interpreters of other people's songs in the history of rock.

Yeah, just an iconic 60s, 70s figure. It's just weird that he wasn't there. It's just crazy. It doesn't even make any sense. And if anything, I think if we had to-- because there's a list of inbred biases, and I would guess that it was the lack of songwriting. Yeah.

Which is silly because Elvis Presley sucks. Exactly. Frank Sinatra sucks. Right. You go straight to Elvis. Yeah. And then Cyndi Lauper got in and that's great. I mean, she's great. Like who would begrudge Cyndi Lauper her introduction to the rock and roll fame? It's long overdue for Cyndi. And the White Stripes are great. It feels weird to me. The first 2000s rock band. I only started in the late 90s, but their impact was the 2000s.

It feels a little scary as far as making people feel old. You're like, the White Stripes are already eligible? And it's because they started in the 90s. And soon the Strokes will be eligible. Oh my God, kill me. I mean, not that they shouldn't be in, but just on an age basis. With the White Stripes, it's not so much that, you know, I think obviously, obviously they belong in there. I wouldn't even, they would be top in my vote. I'm gonna fight them all. I said the nation army couldn't hold me back.

I do think it's interesting that they made it. I wonder if that's because of Jack's open sort of collaboration with people like the Stones and mutual admiration with Bob Dylan. And it's weird when you think that he got in and Oasis didn't just on a sheer level of like practicality. He's American. He plays the game. He goes to the award shows and just Seven Nation Army alone. Yeah.

has had an afterlife like almost no other song of the past. Yeah, except Wonderwall. Which is even bigger. Which is even bigger. But, yeah, of course. But I can think of only one other song, and it happens to be Wonderwall. Because maybe you're going to be the one that saves me. Yeah, and I think the blues guitar thing he does is very easy to connect with the older voters.

Sure, just like, but so is the Beatles thing that Oasis does. So it makes no sense, but he's American. And then, you know, very psyched that Outkast is in. I mean, you know, they're one of the greatest groups period of this century. I go back to their music all the time and I'm constantly blown away by the incredible musicality of what they did and the way that everything was so ahead of its time. ♪ I'm sorry, Miss Jackson ♪

The men to make your daughter cry.

They're awesome. And so I'm psyched they're in. Brilliant. And what was smart at the Hall of Fame this year was they were the one hip-hop act the entire ballot. There's past years they've done three or four, and the votes got split, I presume. So Outkast were able to get every hip-hop vote, and they so deserve it. And in the off chance Andre's willing to come and perform, it'll transform the entire ceremony. Yeah. How many years has it been since their last reunion? It was 2014. It was the only time they've toured since that.

They broke up in 2006 or whatever. Andre had said to our Andre very recently that he has no interest in doing it again. That doesn't mean for one night he won't do it, but it's hard to imagine he comes out and sings "Hey Ya" out of the place. I can't imagine that.

Yeah, if anything, one of them will show up, or Andre will show up with his flute. And yeah, it's hard to-- I don't think they'll reunite. But-- But the Roots will be the house band, and they will assemble an awesome tribute to Outkast. And then they'll bring out Salt-N-Pepa, who will kill also. It'll be very cool. When did the Roots take over as a house band? Years ago. That's a nice generational change. It's a nice change. And-- That the Roots who are in their 50s can take over from Paul Schaeffer, who's in their 70s. In their 70s, yeah.

And the tributes they've done to the Beastie Boys and stuff. And like-- MARK BLYTH: Their tribute last year to "Tribe Called Quest," yeah. DAN GALPIN: Which was fantastic, yeah. So I think either A, if OutKast, if they come or not, it's going to be great. And I don't think the White Stripes are going to play, if I had to guess.

You put that very... I will eat my podcast microphone if Meg White shows up and happily jams with Jack White and they hug each other at the end after they play a three-song set of their classics. I just cannot imagine that. I can't imagine either, but Talking Heads played in 02. Weird shit happens sometimes, but not this particular one. The Police Reunited one, that seemed impossible. And Zeppelin and Cream. I just think...

It depends where Meg's head is at and what her feelings are about Jack, which we don't really know. She's, I mean, for people who don't know, she's like kind of a famous, not recluse, I'm sure she just lives her life, but she has been out of the public eye since she left that band. And so it's just very, very hard to imagine. On the other hand, though, if you're her, do you really want Jack up there by himself accepting all the credit for the band? I don't know.

Very hard to place your finger. I think you'd rather have that than reemerge. She's not part of the fame world whatsoever. And this would be like a live stream on the internet and an ABC broadcast and a theater full of people. I mean, it's... Yeah, she's not showing up. She's not showing up.

Get into your body's vitals with the Vitals app on Apple Watch. Get used to my body.

Soundgarden. Soundgarden.

Awesome that they're in. I don't understand what differentiates them from other 90s acts in the eyes of the voters in the committee. I mean, in other words, I think they deserve to be in, but why do they deserve to be in more than... I mean, okay, admittedly, unlike Smashing Pumpkins, who were always kind of seen as interlopers by certain people in the alternative scene, obviously Soundgarden were deeply embedded in the actual Seattle scene. But you know who else...

is not in that just occurred to me. Jane's Addiction. Yeah. I mean, not from Seattle, but insanely important. And, you know, as we discussed in the La Palooza episode, absolutely key to the development of alt-rock in the 90s. And to have Pearl Jam in, but not Jane's Addiction, who were the most immediate influence on their first album, is comical. It's like bringing in Yes and Genesis, but not King Crimson.

Right, which they also have done. Yes, exactly. You know, love Soundgarden. It's great that they're in, but why aren't these other people in? Soundgarden, it's interesting. People forget about their entire 80s career. Totally been just erased from history. It's like they started in 94 to some people.

They were really some of the pioneers of this shit. They were around for the whole 80s. But if MTV, they don't play your videos, you don't exist to most people. I mean, I will say that maybe not all the music has aged super well, but Bad Motor Finger is still impeccable. That's one of the best albums in the 90s. Yeah, it's a classic. It's sad that they waited so long. Christ is not here.

That's interesting. And you'll be talking to Kim Thao. But I presume they will perform. And I know that, for example, Brandi Carlile has expressed interest in fronting them. I wonder who might front them. They've played a bunch of events the past few years. They played in December at some benefit show. They were billed as nude dragons, to give it a different name, with a guest singer. I forget who was the singer.

But they played with Duff McKagan a few times. They've done stuff. I bet they're going to play. Maybe Chris's daughter. That would be a very cool moment. It would be very moving. Yeah. You know what would be cool? Axl. I'd like Axl to front side guard. With his current voice. Okay, I'd like to see Axl... From the 90s? Yeah, from the 90s front side guard. I want Eddie Vedder.

That's cool-ish. He can't sing in Chris's range, though. Even still, he's so close. It doesn't make any sense. That's like half Pearl Jam, too. It'd be weird because Matt Cameron's on drums. You're right. That makes no sense. That makes no sense. Good thought, though. No, it was a bad thought. Yeah, I don't know who would. That's a tough one. I don't know. Who could front Soundgarden? I'm all for Brendan Crowell. You know who would be great? Miley Cyrus.

That would make people so mad. She would do a great job. She fronted Temple the dog in front of a real intense rock crowd and won everybody over. She sang the fuck out of Say Hello to Heaven.

She fronted Temple of a... What? Did you not see this? What are you talking about? At the tribute concert to Chris Cornell a few years ago, they brought out Miley. She sang Say Hello to Heaven with Temple Dog. She fronted them, and it was mind-blowingly great. I blocked this. You know what it is? There's been so many great sort of quote-unquote unexpected Miley Rock performances that I blanked that one out. This is her best one. She went out there and just...

destroyed the place she's saying it beautifully maybe it will be Miley Cyrus that would be found there that would be sick

Obviously very happy to see Salt-N-Pepa there, very deserved. And it's a chance for them to mend fences with their estranged DJ, Spinderella. Why are they beefing with Spinderella? Because they fired her and she sued them. And she's actually the second Spinderella. Spinderella 1 was only on their first single. She's let go. They bring in the second Spinderella, who was there the whole time. It's like that character in Roseanne.

Two Beckys on Roseanne. There are two Spinderellas, and they hate each other. On the reality show about Salt-N-Pepa, there's a great moment when Salt-N-Pepa, they've been feuding the entire time, they fight like crazy, but the only thing that unites them is their animosity. They both feel it against Spinderella. There's a scene with her when Spinderella is like, "Guys,

I'm the N in Salt and Pepper, right? It's Spinderella. Then together, it is like, hell no, you are not the N. Salt and Pepper are the two of us, and you're the DJ. Yeah, right. The N stands for end. Not for Spinderella. Spinderella, she firmly believes in her heart that the N is Spinderella. That's really funny. Yeah.

So, yes, but only the second Spinderella was inducted, though. Spinderella 1 is written out of history. They haven't said who's inducted yet. I can't imagine the first Spinderella will be inducted, but it would be like if the Beatles hired a new drummer in 62 and called him Pete Best, but it was somebody else. Now, they got in before En Vogue, and what a man was both of them. We need En Vogue in Rock and Roll. Sure, but Salt-N-Pepa are a better group. No quibbles there.

Warren Zevon, baffling, baffling as we said that it took so long. He's just so great. He's amazing, but to most people, he's one song. Until he was dying, he was really forgotten. He was playing tiny clubs. But that was like 20 years ago. Right. But then he's dead. And when you're dead, it's harder to get in.

There can't be a big Lauren Zevon performance, although there is a chance for a really cool tribute. And I would be definitely thinking of people like Bruce for that. And Jackson Browne, for sure, because they were so close and he's always played his songs. Yeah, it's true. Werewolves of London did, I guess, overshadow. That was his whippet. That was a curse. For anyone who just knows Werewolves of London, which I hope

Yeah, there's so much good stuff. Yeah.

but only in their thing. Part of the problem is that you can be an expert but not know anything about Warren Zevon, and so that's what we're facing. Then there is Bad Company. Say what you will about Bad Company, but they have tons of hits. They're the rare band that has a song with their band name. Bad, not bad.

Bad company till the day I die. And, you know, certainly a staple of classic rock radio. It's interesting, the Hall of Fame in its original incarnation was kind of set up to...

be a little bit of an exclusive club that excluded certain acts that were seen as sort of the faceless commercial acts. There was a real thing of foreigner and journey, and those type of groups were thought that they would never get in. They were thought of faceless acts like Boston, who's not in, and that whole era of the late 70s and early 80s, the Styx-type bands. Many still aren't in, but every year now they bring in one, which means even Styx

There's a chance now. Part of it is that these were groups who never had critical acclaim and also weren't particularly

personally famous like they weren't on the cover of Rolling Stone many of them yeah there's a famous article on Rolling Stone that shows like 30 pictures of their faces and then the names on their side and then ask people to to like connect them because nobody knew who was in Styx or Boston or Journey or Foreigner or a lot of these groups the songs were famous but like Lou Grams the lead singer of Foreigner he sings like 40 big hits no one knows his name

Whereas Paul Rogers from Bad Company is a bit more famous. That particular brand of whatever you want to call it, you know, whether it's discernment or snobbery is clearly gone and all those people are going to get in.

So there's certainly enough great acts that actually, you know, the ceremony itself should be a lot of fun. We'll see what happens. We'll see if Jack White performs. If OutKast doesn't perform, we'll see who does perform in their place. That's kind of interesting. I presume Big Boy's coming. You know, let me check my Big Boy calendar. I have no idea, but that is a decent assumption. He inducted Kate Bush, right? Yeah, it sounds right. So I think he's going to come.

And there'll be some kind of Joe Cocker tribute. Which will be amazing. A Warren Zevon tribute. If Salt-N-Pepa are going to destroy the place. The mystery of how Soundgarden are going to do it. So it's interesting actually looking at it.

There is a problem overall, actually, performance-wise. I didn't really fully grasp this, but Cindy Lauper is one of the only people who's going to be able to fully represent Cindy Lauper. I think Bad Company are going to play. I think Paul's recovered from his strokes and is singing again. So it's basically, as far as fully representing, it's going to be Bad Company. And there's no missing members of Cindy Lauper, and Bad Company will be able to perform. No, and Salt-N-Pepa will perform.

Okay. So, okay. Yeah. I was looking at the main inductees, but yes. Then you have, I think an unusual number of, you know, so you're not going to get a full white stripes. You're not obviously can't get a full sound garden. You're not going to get a full outcast. Joe Cocker's dead. I learned a minute ago that Chubby Checker is alive. I wasn't clear on that. So Chubby Checker, is he alive to the point where he can perform? He tours and sounds great. I just watched a video of him playing the twist at a casino. He's still twisting. He's, he's great.

I did not fully realize he was alive. I think it's great that he can get in while he's alive. So I'm even more for the Chubby Chucker inductment. Like, let Chubby Chucker have his moment. But what they've done recently to compensate for years like this is bring in truly big name people to induct them and perform for them. Who do you get to induct bad company? That's a tough one. You know, you get like someone like Bon Jovi would be good. Yeah, there's plenty of people that can do it.

It could be Brian May to make up for the Queen thing. Queen are the first ones to admit that Paul Rogers was not the perfect choice for their replacement singer for Freddie. Yeah, so it should be an interesting ceremony. Once they implement our plan of musical dictatorship, it's a dual plan. You want to induct every missing person from the 50s, 60s, and 70s in one year, then block the entire 50s, 60s, and 70s.

and then move to a dictatorship, and those two things will solve everything. And embrace the magical land of England. Yes. It's very peculiar. It's very peculiar. It's embarrassing. But, you know, it's fun to talk about, so I'm still glad the Hall of Fame exists. Same. Bring in Devo, finally. Yeah, yeah, sure. And Devo. Make that a top priority. Get Devo in for Andy. Thank you. Andy, as always, thank you for joining me. Of course. Thank you.

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