$200K/Year & Early Retirement in 10 Years by Being a "Lazy" Investor
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Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the bigger points money podcast. Today's episode is from the fire series, which originally aid on our youtube channel diomede. Neily had such a great story that we wanted to share with our audio listener ers, too.

This episode is brought you by connected to real investing, simplified and within your reach without further a do let's check the on. I so excited to talk to don. Vicinity today is retiring in ten years speel unattainable to you today, don, this year to prove that IT isn't off the table even if you're settled with that.

Now don is fully retired and has the flexibility to do whatever he wants to do. Sounds pretty great, right? I can't wait for you to learn how he did IT and to take his lessons and apply them to your online. And thank you so much for join me today.

Thank you so much for having me here. Anybody who is for me with me knows that I am not so secret men. Di Johnson fan.

well, thank you. I am not so secret. New live, let's go back to the beginning. How did you discover the concept of financial independence and the idea that you could retire early?

I tried for a pension a couple of times. I tried the marine core and the downsized after desert storm. I tried law enforcement and the downsized after two thousand and eight.

And I think when I started working tours investing, my goal wasn't even financial freedom. IT definitely wasn't, and ironically, still isn't generational wealth. I'm not trying to create generational.

What if I think my kids are erring? Something would take away their own personal drive. They will inherit IT millions.

It's just not my goal. I was trying to do the most important thing that I think we can do for our kids. I didn't start investing till I was forty.

I was a single parent with three kids. I just gotten laid off from law enforcement. I found out about eighty nine thousand dollars and bad debt mining that I didn't know existed until the divorce.

And I thought the most important thing we can do for our kids is to take care of our finances so that we don't become a financial burden to them when we're too old to work. And so that was what got me started with the idea of buying rentals and at least eight ten year journey. Real estate is a get rich quick skin. The really hard thing is convincing people that ten years is quick.

Yes, you can absolutely get rich. You can get very wealthy through real estate and D A. I have a feeling you're gona tell us how.

But before we do that, I want to go back to this eighty nine thousand dollars in bad debt. You said the word bad. What does that mean to you?

So I have three categories when IT comes to debt, and most people are familiar. Two, a lot of people don't believe in good debt, right? But there's three. So you have bad debt, which to me is consumer debt, credit cards, personal loans. And when I went through my divorce, I actually found out about three hundred and thirteen thousand dollars and bad debt.

But I I found out that creditors will negotiate with you if you're thinking you don't even have to be committed to IT, but just thinking about bankrupcy, many of them will take twenty or thirty percent of whatever was. Oh, and since I didn't even know what these debts wear, I was contacting the creditors to find out how to make the payments. And out of three hundred and thirteen, eighty nine thousand was what I was responsible for ultimately.

And so to me, bad debt is that consumer debt, and there's also worse debt. In order to reach financial freedom and have the confidence to retire, I wanted to make sure all of my worst det was gone to me. That was anything with an adjustable rate, anything with a long reevaluation period, anything with a balloon payment, or were the high interest rate at the time, interest rates were around five to six percent for mortgage es.

I figured anything above six percent was my worst. that. And so I split my disposable income into two categories. The first one was I wanted to save for a house sac. The second was on one of the get rid the worst.

Det, so I was making minimum payments on everything, and then half of my directionally income went towards my worst debt. And IT did take several years to get rid of IT. But that happened while I was acquiring rental properties.

In that first one, I had a really bad debt income ratio, was only making seventeen dollars hour. I had the bad debt. And Lucy, a lender, told me there's no way that you could buy a house unless you had something like rental income on your tax returns.

So what I did is I took my kids. I have a single parent with three kids. We moved from my house, which kept through the divorce, so was good about keeping custody of kids.

And my house never been good at about keeping a girl around. So I moved from the house into an apartment, and we rented the house up for two years. So I did a couple of things. I got laid out from the enforcement.

I started teaching in a city school and making a little bit of seventeen old in our job, but two years in the new industry to become lendable, two years to work on my credit score, two years to save the little downpayment that I needed in, two years to get rental income on my tax return. So that when I bought that first duplex, I was actually binkle. I still had bad debt.

I was working on acquiring good debt. And when I talk about financial freedom being possible in a decade, this ten years, I usually get the response of it's really hard to do. There's no way you can do IT now.

And yes, when you talk about financial freedom being thirty minutes or thirty days, you'd talked about, you know, the get rich quick scheme. If you start today with a ten year journey, that means you're in the graduating class of twenty thirty four and a lock can happen between now and then. So for me, I was starting with a ten year plan.

And if you're starting today, that means to be a ten year plan. Now IT might go faster. Maybe you have less that.

Maybe you make more money, maybe you make smaller decisions. But if you plan for ten years, you will be happy if IT happened sooner. If you plan for two years, you're going to be too enticed into taking risks that outweigh the returns. And IT could blow .

up in your face to the people who are listening, saying odd one is hard is going to yeah you know what financial independence at any income level, any debt level is hard. It's not impossible. It's not this like overwhelming burden is this overwhelming freedom but you're not going to have to work for IT.

IT doesn't just pop into your lap. And I think ten years is a really good timeframe. Of course, if you're making twelve dollars now where and you've got four hundred thousand dollars and student loan that you're probably not going to make IT in ten years.

I'm sorry to break that to you, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about eighty nine thousand dollars in bad debt and seventeen dollars an hour. And instead of saying, well, I guess this is just my life, you decided I do want to be able to buy a house and do this house hacking things.

So I am going to move out of my house into a rental, which is considered a downgrade and shouldn't be necessarily because it's just a move, uh, but you you moved out of your house and started renting IT. So you would be longer if you are going to pursue financial independence. You are going to have to do things that other people aren't willing to do.

Dave rem z says at best and most succinctly, I can't even say that word if he is live like no one else now. So you can live like no one else later. And dian is living like no one else now, because now is his later. And so people don't .

feel depressed by by the story. We've talked about the beginning, the ending. As I return twenty twenty two with sixteen rental properties, I purchase ed to do plex.

Since then, they made about two hundred and four thousand dollars in profit in two thousand and two thousand, two to retire on. I spent about fifty, so I have four times the amount of money coming in that I need. And and so the fun thing and retire is figuring out how to spend that.

And for anybody saying that, it's really hard to start now. And when you understand that, what's about to be said is my opinion, not bigger pockets and not middle. So if you get angry, comment me in the comments.

My name is don twenty twenty four is the golden age of buying real estate. And I know that's going upset out of people when to go back to the last decade is as distinctly as possible. Thank you for the sixty four cent over there.

I started saving around twenty ten after getting the off in laender cement. In twenty ten, everybody was saying it's a double the procession dome by real date. It's gonna rash again.

Twenty eleven is the the bottom. So I started in saving them. In twenty thirteen, I go to buy that first duplex.

Everybody was screaming at the top of their lungs. Prices are starting to pass where they were in two thousand and eight. IT has to crash.

Its unsustainable. Don't pie. So part of the plex in twenty fifteen, when I bought the next one, everybody in the world was screaming silver tuna.

I because this was the first year baby boomers were eating possible retirement age. This can be a flood of invention. Tory Prices were going to drop.

Don't buy. In two thousand and eighteen, when I bought another duplex and made a huge mistake, paid off a house, I lost a million dollars doing that. Uh, everyone to think interest strates above six percent.

And you know that Prices haven't come down. Nobody can buy a house of interest strates or above six percent, and Prices have just don't buy. So I bought another one in twenty twenty.

Everybody was streaming. There's a pandemic. There's an eviction moratorium.

Nobody has to pay rent. You can't of victim. People can go on for parents. The market has to crash. So I bought four plex and a triplex, twenty twenty two and twenty twenty one, when every one, four bearance was ending. And everybody said, this is going to flood the market.

Don't buy real state about a duplex every single year when everybody was saying it's impossible to do, I did IT in twenty twenty four. Here's what they are going to be saying in twenty twenty eight. Here's two and a half reasons why this is the golden age of real eesti first, remote work is a game changer.

When I grew up, I think I knew one person who had a remote job in twenty ten. I probably need five right now if you take out truck drivers, because I M C D O school and hard to do that remotely. But half the people I know work a remote job that the senses did a study.

Fifty six percent of people are required to work in their office for their companies, which sounds like a big number, until you realize that means forty four percent of employees aren't required to work in the office. So what's happened is, pick the major mechanical is near you. For me, I was sealand coma.

Remote worker is not the ones who can work completely remote. And G, O, arbitrarily live in thailand, make a lot of money for living there. But the ones we have to go to the office once or twice a week.

This is a significant amount of people who cannot take their seattle t to come a rent money of four thousand dollars a month for a little apartment, move out to the suburbs and pay twenty five hundred dollars a month for my house. Rents pushed up, but Prices haven't because they can buy. The remote workers don't wanted buy because they make IT.

Paul called back to the office next year. So rents are pushing up for me. I was, I pushed out amazing country and kids up counting and found that time of deals, found my most recent plex, and am actually house sacking now by using that. The second reason why this is the golden age of real state is november eighteen, twenty twenty three.

The regulation changed on conventional lending to be able to get a duplex triplex or four plex, five percent down convention alone in the past to for a try plus or four plus, you had to use fa j to get that low down payment in twenty twenty eight. People are going to say, can you remember twenty twenty four when you can buy a small multi house for five percent downtown? Insane was that every one of those years that I bought that somebody said, you couldn't.

We look back now and think, and so glad I did. And people say, you can only retire because you did. In five to ten years, people are only going to be saying that you can retire the person starting this journey today because you took action in twenty four.

wow. Okay, you said two and a half reasons, but the half reason.

the other half reason is if you're paying attention to fair market rents, this is a bit of a math thing. So this is why I try not to talk too much math because and the marine and me says I don't no math, but the housing authority bases their their data on setting fair market rents on the last seven years. They don't consider the most recent two.

So those previous five years set rents. If you chat, go to to the HUD website and check fair market rents in your area, look at how much rents went up from twenty twenty three to twenty twenty four. IT was a massive jump.

One of my tenants went from twenty two hundred a month to three thousand a months. That's a significant increase. So what's happening now in twenty twenty four is that massive jump that happened after twenty twenty because there was a great freeze for a year twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two are starting to be factored into section eight.

And the way section eight impacts rents is every october, they have to come out with what they are gona pay for rents next year. So in october, we have next year's data. That doesn't mean that when my rents went up from twenty two hundred to three thousand in january that all of the rent did because most leases and and in the summer.

So as we cycle through this summer, you're going to see a lot of rents jump up mid twenty twenty four because of that increase in two and twenty eight people are going to say if you were aware of this. And in the middle of twenty and twenty four, you were anticipating what section ate rents we're doing to the area, average rent in your area, you could find deals that would cash flow at the end of summer that didn't make sense at the beginning of summer. So it's two and a half reasons because that's projecting forward based on known data.

Okay, you just blew my mind. I and that specific to section ate correct.

So that's the thing of sectioned impacts all rents. Because why would a landlord rent to somebody who's not sexual ate when the government will pay you guaranteed amount of IT of that increase? So two things impact rents.

Every, every average. Aren't the rentals right? Supplying demand is always a factor, but basic allowance for housing around a military installation or a college is impacted by what the military will pay for.

Basic baLance for housing. In twenty twenty three, we saw twelve percent increase in two thousand. Twenty four wasn't only or three percent, but IT three percent on top of the twelve percent. So B A, H is impacting area average rents. And then housing authorities, what they'll pay for rents impacts rents.

But about six months behind because, and this is something I do backwards, most people say they want to release ist end of the summer because it's really hard to find attended in winter because nobody wants to move. All but one of my leases ends in january and february ary. That helps me have very limited ten and turn over because nobody wants to move in the winter.

So I do that backwards. But most landlords want their stuff in the witness the summer, so that's when sectioned starts to roll over midsummer. And again, why would a landlord went to non section, ate for less than what the state would .

pay exactly attention?

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So not a hypotheses ticals. It's actually my story. In two thousand eighteen, you were only allowed to have four mortgages in your name.

And I had just found bigger pockets and was educating myself on things like dsc r lending asset by solar financing, all these other options that I didn't know was there. So I had four mortgage at that point, decided to pay off my smallest amount, light largest interest rate. I paid off my single family house.

I was about one hundred and two one thousand dollars. Just after that, I purchased just a four plus, where my out of pocket was one hundred and nine thousand dollars. That four plus since twenty twenty has appreciated over a million dollars how I purchased another four plus, which I had the funds to do, had the deal instead of paying off a house, I would have had a million dollars and appreciation two or three times the cash flow of the paid off property.

So I look at that, paying off that house is not a mistake, and I don't regret IT at the time. Based on the information ahead, best decision part of the swan accounts sleep well at night. But mathematically, I can say, considering all of the options I lost out on a million dollars OK.

I can see how that is working. I can hear people saying, oh, well, he didn't have a million dollars in in his hand. No, but he could have. So I agree with you, you lost a million dollars, but you said something very important, you said and I take the said you were said you said at the time, based on the information I had, I made decision IT is completely the cell's fault for not listing that until after you would paid off your house um but I also am not a fan of paying off those old mortgages the three percent mortgage, the two percent mortgage. I have one right now.

I'm not paying an extra dime towards that because instead of putting money into that account, I put IT into the stock market where IT grows more than the three percent return that i'm getting by paying off my mortgage. So, uh, I completely understand why you would, in hindsight, not want to do this. IT is what IT is.

What is IT? Two hundred thousand dollars a year coming in and you only spend fifty. So this would have just been more problems. You save yourselves some problems.

When I retired, I was two hundred and four thousand and profit, and I spent about fifty because of the binder strategy. And thank you. Inflation is closer to two fifty year coming in, and I still don't spend more than fifty.

Do you want my address to send me a check for two hundred thousand every every year?

You would think of something Better to do. The I do, all I do is blow IT on school.

But I having in other countries, okay, I can spend the money that I have. I'm not going to take yours. We'll just take your money and that throat into more real state. Are you currently buying more real estate? Or are you sitting pretty?

So my goal is not to acquire more real estate actively to grow the portfolio, but the money piles up. This is the problem we're trying to get everybody watching this video to have so that I will acquire more rentals again. I'm not trying to create generational wealth, but it's the best use of capital, right? There's and this is if I can articulate this.

Warn buffs often talks about diversifying. Kevin o li, mister wonderful, says, you know, no more than twenty percent in one asset class, no more than five percent in any asset. I'm one hundred percent in real estate, and because i'm one, I don't know if I want to stock or had a penny in a retirement account Price to be working.

So since i'm in one asset class, I diverse to find two very specific ways and doing that, adding properties as I go that meet this criteria. One is that it's at least ten miles away from my other properties, pulling tenants from different sources close to several economic drivers, like a port, a base, a college, a hospital, boeing or amazon. And the second criteria is that I have three different types of tennants.

I want about one third military, one third section eight, one third working, a retired. So my portfolio was ready for a pandemic stock market crash, a problem government shutdown. And so adding properties as the money piles up for me is still the best use of capital because I have masters one asset class when you reach probably ten or twenty million dollars in network, maybe diversifying to protect your wealth make sense for those people that say those things.

But as you're growing their well, focusing on with its stocks, focus on stocks. If it's growing a business, focus on the business, just break singing from an ord mindset. IT gets a Better return rolling his business than he does buying his rentals.

He buys rental, but he doesn't focus on IT for me since i've masters real estate and rentals and actually have my tenants asked me to increase the rent with the binder strategy, it's the best use of my money other than the hardest thing. And retirement has been learning how to spend money. And i'm slowly I think i've come out with these things called reverse budgets.

Oh, okay, you're throwing so much stuff at me. This going to be a nine hour conversation um reverse budgets since you just talked about that because i've got notes for these other things. What is a reverse budget?

A reverse budget is if you had to be frugal and financial edom, I wouldn't done IT I would say IT work until I was in my seventy seventies. But since I don't want to be frugal, but I took a decade of living frugally, I took that, that dedication and learning the systems of how to make as much as you can, spend less than you make, and save and invest the difference.

You develop these habits over that decade to reach financial system that really hard to break. So I actually have a reverse budget. So if I don't spend this much, I failed for the month.

I must spend two thousand dollars a month eating out at different restaurants. Now it's whether it's me with friends that doesn't matter a reverse budget. I have a an asset for every expense or that i've got the health care duplex, i've got the travel duplex, i've got the uh, vehicle duplex and i've got the voda four plex.

But with my vehicle duplex, IT profits a little over two thousand dollars a month, I want to make sure that the next vehicle that I get cost, at least now this is registration insurance, of keeping everything at least a minimum of what that property profits to wear. Yeah, I draw a fifteen and a seventeen year old jeep and jeep cherokee for that decade to reach financial freedom. But going forward, i'm always going to have the goofiest list vehicle I feel like having because of an asset paying for IT. So reverse budget says making sure I don't live too frugally because that was not the point of financial freedom.

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Bigger pockets, dot com, flash connect, invest okay, that is interesting. I like these different properties that fund your lifestyle and your spending. And question, what sort of reserve fund do you have for either each individual property or just collectively for all of them?

My crayon, either I got my crayons ready to eat. IT has to be simple, so it's not her property. And my my reserves scaled with the size of my point folio when I had seven units less.

I kept ten thousand dollars as a reserve inking I can handle in a victa garage door of water heater. When I got above seven minutes, I thought Murphy's fourth coral area could kick in, that if any sequence of events can go wrong, they probably will end in the worst possible order. So ten thousand was no longer enough.

I raised IT to thirty thousand, and that was pretty much where I stayed while I worked. When I stopped having that drug that kills our dreams, the paycheck, I raised my reserves to fifty thousand. That's not per property.

That's fifty thousand total. Any amount above the ten, thirty or fifty needed to be put to work to help me get to financial freedom. So I still maintain a fifty thousand dollar reserve that's scorched, emergency, never touched.

Everything above that is, you know, cash ful for my lifestyle and going to the next investment. And so as your cash low grows, your investment strategies can change, right on the lazy investor. For ten years, I bought rent ready, already occupied.

I did. I've never done a rehab and never done a burr, a flip, a wholesale or anything to reach financial freedom and retire. Once I retired and had my time free to, I did my first burn, which I call my last burr, because I don't like IT.

IT created about three hundred thousand dollars in cash in a year, and I don't want to do IT again. Have is not worth IT, because I could spend the winter in thailand scup diving and know I was here managing up. So it's not why I reject.

So that's how I do my reserves. Kindergarten simple. I picked in them out. I stayed there and IT scaled with the size of my portfolio and grew in my job on away.

And remind me how many units you have total. So twenty twenty two.

when I retired, I had sixteen and I purchased one duplex since then because i'm on the slow path, the problem was the the cash piles up. So I did a bird that was self funded. I just purchased the cash, funded the repairs. And so i'm not even sure it's going to be a complete bird because I might not pull any money out at the end. I might just leave IT and there and .

enjoy the cash flow. You can do that when you have to hundred thousand more than you need every year. You can you can choose. You can make different decisions. How much time does your real estate take up either weekly or monthly?

It's a great question that has two short answers. When you're growing in your portfolio all of the time, IT is not passive. Reale estate investing is not passive.

Real estate ownership is close to passive eighteen runs units. Now a house suck. One of them takes about two hours a month to completely self manage. IT would take me about two hours a month to manage a property manager. So i'll do that myself, and I use things like hemline e.

So if I made another country I have attended turn over, I can step up the process for that one month and have a least agent go out. I have handy men in place. Now I do this because I invest locally and in washington state, everything is between to come in olympia.

I mean, now in poor orchard, some a little bit further out. But since I invested where I live, I didn't myself. If I was going to invested a distance, I would have started with property management, like my friend, millennial mike is a long enforcement officer in near seattle, body investing, gary, in DNA five years, investing twenty seven properties.

But he does IT with property management smart, though he still have tracking to do plex in the high cost living area. I self managed because I put the systems in place. And those systems, or what gives me the freedom, I that is probably been about seven years now that i've had to go to a property like i'll go in record of video or one of my tennis.

And if you are on, I get to see my news, but I don't have to go to my properties. And it's it's kind of like when people say I want to buy rental property, I don't think i've ever seen a property and then made an offer. I've always gone to look at the property once another contract, everything i've needed to know I can find out online.

Dan, what would be your piece of advice to anybody who is just discovering financial independence, maybe has debt bad or worse and is thinking all? I'd like to try that, but i'm not sure that I could ever get there understanding .

that it's gonna a decade is the first step, right? If people think it's Michael zipper er from one rental at the time has over one hundred eighty rental units. And if he said also reach financial, you need to have a hundred eighty of these rental units, nobody would start.

So he's smart enough to say, get to four. If you can get four properties, your entire life will be changed. Your generation will have millions to inhered by the time you get there.

If you pay these off anywhere close to around your retirement and a age, your retirement will be completely different once you get to four. Now you can decide, okay, I don't like this. Stocks is my way.

And I didn't start investing until I was forty, so I only had a short runway of ten years. There's people like a joe kun on youtube, K, U, H. And he retired at fifty four using stocks and the buckets method, completely different method than me.

He made more money than I did. And he invested for over thirty years to retire at fifty four. So if you have a longer time line for compound interest to do its thing and you make more, there's other methods that might be Better for you.

For me, IT had to be done in a short pair of time. And since I have to live somewhere, I was willing to house hack. And I think the biggest mistake that people make about how hacking we can talk about this video, end of, having time for IT IT is one of the things that helps me retire.

If I didn't know that, i'd probably still be working that that reducing or eliminating my biggest expense added twelve hundred dollars a month to me being able to save when I was only making seventeen, eighteen dollars and over. That's huge. And so that's what got me started.

And so if somebody he's gonna start today, I think it's really important that you pick an asset class that excites you. If it's entrepreneur and you want to start a business, if it's stocks, if it's crapo, if it's real estate, we're more likely to stick to a plan we're emotionally invested in. And I want to say this, that is so bad, you don't start.

The first five years suck. It's slow. Missing example, I started saving. Two years later, I buy a duplex, and then two years later, I buy another duplex. In the first four years, I did two things.

How boring is that? When you reach ten years of doing really boring, let me tell you, boring is sexy. Because boring gave me freedom. And I can now using the math of time, but I never have to work again. I can choose to, but because of finding bigger pockets and educating myself and improving the way that I invest, whether IT was stocks or cyp to or real state, choosing that asset, class life is completely different than if I was stuck in a right race with another two decades to work.

I like what you said right there. I could choose to work if I want to. I think some people here about financial dependence retire earlier.

And I like, oh, I don't want to retire earlier. I like my job. great.

Get financially independent anyway because you might not always like your job. Maybe your boss leaves and you get the worst boss on the planet. I'm sure that's never happened to anybody in the whole history of the world.

But it's happened to me, a butow pes. It's happened to a lot of people I know. And just being able to choose to walk away is huge. You don't have to. I so work, I pendents the pay, and i'm totally fine still working because I love what I do.

But if you get to a point where you are financially independent now, you have all this freedom to choose how you want to spend your day, instead of having to spend your day add jobs that you may or may not love. And I mean, even if you love your jobs, there are still times you're like, it's really nice outside. I want to go swimming or snowboarding or whatever IT is that you like to do.

And when you have a job that you are tethered to your desk, nine to five, that's not going to happen. Dean, this has been so much fun. I could literally talk to you for a hundred more hours. So we will, of course, have you back. But where can people find you?

You can find me on youtube dion talk financial freedom. Or if you go to the on talk dot com, there's actually a free binder course there. I don't charge because IT helps the tenants and the landlords and that's just don talk dot com. And in that I give away my spread sheet that was made by me, my cpa from managing my rentals and I give away my cell er finance letter that I submit with my offers when pursuing a cellar finance purchase as a real city.

I had to go grab that seller finances letter because you never know when somebody wants to write that up. I love that. All right. Dan, thank you so much for your time today. IT is always so much fun talking to you. If you liked this video, please click the thumbs and don't forget to subscribe to this channel for more inspiring fire stories, just like the this is midi jenson signing up.