MtoM #194: Hospitalists Become Financially Independent after 12 Years and Finance 101: Retirement Accounts for the Self Employed
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This is the White coat investor podcast milestones to millionaire, celebrating stories of success along the journey to financial freedom.

His milestones millionaire podcast number one, ninety four hospitals become financially independent after twelve years for using multi family to build longterm wealth.

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All right, we ve got a great interview today. I think we want to enjoy IT. If you want to come on this podcast yourself, you do not have to, you know, uh, complete a mile stone's impressive.

Is this persons right? We'll celebrate any milestone with you. I don't care if you just got back to broke after twenty eight years out residency, we will celebrate IT with you.

I don't care if you just bought your first beater as a resident, we will celebrate with you any financial milestone you reach. We will use IT to inspire others to do the same. Because there is somebody in a similar situation to you can apply a wide investor dot com flash milestones right after the interviews stick around. We're going to talk for a few minutes about retirement accounts for the self employed. I guess today .

on the mile stone's million or podcast is kumar kumar. Welcome to podd cast.

Thank you for having me.

Let's start by introducing yourself a little bit. Tell us what you do for a living and what the country you're in and how are you are out of train.

So I did my training in internal medicine. I graduated in April of two thousand years. So this is the most is out of my residency.

okay? And you're work and mostly as what you're in clinic, you're in a hospital as good to as a holiday.

So I ve been working for last eleven years. I like my full time job. So now this year, I worked with ten days in entire year, and I just touch to a pdm job at brazil as a hospital list, but currently are not fourth time empire, even a part time at this as as we speak as of now.

So should we call a part time or should we call .

some I retired um more I complete retire I would say like much more than a similar tire as even I only worked twelve in entire last year.

okay. So to one day a month is essentially what you working at this point. Yes, you're twelve years out of training.

You work as a hospital. Now this is going to be, I mean, that internet of itself is pretty impressive, everybody, I think. But let's talk about what my office were celebrating today.

Um I reach my five million, uh, last month.

last month, five million in network or in investigate and .

just investable asset.

okay. So network even higher because you own your home, I believe mortals free.

right? Totally on. I didn't had any money. I paid cash of front exposed to now one point three million as we speak, as if not great value.

So if you can add that, so my you add the house as well. The quality of the house be close to six point five. okay.

So this is a very impressive network I been assigned from. The fact that you are essentially retired twelve years out of training is a very impressive network for a hospital list. It's only worked for twelve years.

Fill in the gaps here. How do? How did you get here? You got to tell us a story.

Yes, I like, first of all, being an immigrant from india. So I did my medical school from back frida. So I did not had any student back in.

So when I started my residency, I started the teen slate. I had no debt more forever. So you know, I say bring my residency up for three years. I met my wife.

Or you know at that time, he will also bring an entering in medicine residency as well and that's what we might be married two thousand twelve after graduating from medicine. And since then we both have been practicing hospital this medicine and for this, uh, for last, as he continues to work, he just left her full time job last month. So he is taking a break for the three months, and then he continue to work part time as well.

Okay, so to a dual dock income, a dual hospital alist income, what do you think your income is average over the last twelve years between .

the two of somewhere along six hundred to six fifty?

So six hundred thousand dollars you made, uh, six hundred thousand dollars you made a year for twelve years. So this is about, you know, seven million dollars or something you made. And you basically have IT all left. How do you managed that?

That is because of the power of compounding. And you know, when I started investing in two thousand and thirteen, I didn't have much knowledge. My 嗯 brother was a is investor， but he set up my broker.

I I have not heard of index, found anything like that. I not read any books. So what I did, I just basically pick up buying stocks like apple, facebook, netflix as a without knowing anything about IT, I just bought them into thirteen and I just kept them.

So you're by you're by the individual stocks started in twenty thirteen. Is that when you approach the whole time or do that change over time.

most of their time, to be honest, as to by approach. So I am the outlier. So now I have read hundreds of works and I know index on works.

You cannot beat the market and everything you can you like, uh, listen to your new forecast and the blocks. I read all your blocks, most of them is i've read your book. So but again, that was all after I started investing already.

So now my investment did well. And again, it's not because i'm smart. Anything IT was shared that that I bought all the fans.

I have the magnifying ian seven. I watch navigation on eighteen without doing anything about individual today, as you know, very extent. So i've compounded my money.

I was just looking at my process account before this interview, and my, you have compounded annually for the last eight years more than twenty percent and the same time the S N P has already uh than an average o of annually of film s so you my community return currently two hundred and sixty percent, while five invested in assembly will be one hundred and fifty percent. So I written the M P. Again, not because of anything, just because of the love by close to nine percent for the last nine years or so.

yeah. Any plans to change your style of investing at this point? You planned to continue to invest in individual stocks?

yes. Now what I do is yeah so now I don't earn much. So i'm what I do like recent years or my that is so I bought index funds.

So i'm trying to switch from my individual because I know it's quite a risky in a proposition going in the future to change some of them to index fun. But gradually, I don't want to too much of capital gain tax as well because they they have appreciated a lot. So and I understand, even if at the risk here, I not left my job, my wife still works, I continue to earn. So we are not withdrawing any money from our portfolio. IT just writing what to say, even if IT drops, you know, two, three million dollars, IT won't change our life because we don't need that money for next five, ten or twenty years or so.

What percentage of your growth income do you think you saved on average over the last eleven.

twelve years or initially? Yeah initially were saving like after the taxes, what they what I was getting the roping home almost close to seventy percent.

seventy percent of your net income yes.

we are living in a very low cost of area near buffo when I graduate from residency. So I didn't read a book but I was still living like a resident uh yeah now uh because my market was four hundred dollars ah for the month so yeah, I was very cheap though. I spend of wasted money out of buying cars and I just have without knowing much. But after that, you know where you were would say what we invested and we enjoyed a life you know by we were able to save a lot of money of them, and that made a big difference.

Now most doctors have a lifestyle explosion. When they leave residency, they start spending dramatically more than they were. Why do you think you didn't?

No, actually, I did just because, you know, uh, I bought my first car was a Mercedes, then I bought a seven series B, M, W. I, then I bought an order, then I bought convertible Mercedes. So my, my driver, that there was three cars on my driver must be going to order, which was more expensive than maintainers.

So I can waste my money. I went to fancy vacations, but after that, a certain extent IT all wins, as we all know that, you know, you enjoy for a couple of months and something you feel good, you put on the social media, and then everything just goes back in your back to the trend is. So later I realized that, you know, these things are fleecing.

Now, the biggest thing of money, I think, can buy is free. Right now, I wake up morning, I drop. We have one daughter, so we spend lot of time that she's nine year old.

So that's the full purpose of this approach of leaving the job is not that I hate my job, anything, give me money, but able to spend our time with her. So that is very, very critical piece. And that made me to do all this so that I can able to do, especially the world and years.

He just turn nine now. You want to be there all the time for her. So that's our number of one purpose.

Yeah those years between five and ten pretty magical aren't i've got a nine year old.

two so we have not hide any aid. We don't you know, we just take for we spend lots of time now, full day for the year.

Now you're an immigrant. I don't know if you're wipes immigrants, but how did you are Operating in effect.

how you manage your money? Do you think yeah that my indian be that us. Medical school back in india and know that are IT A U S. Million and starting our residency from my family background.

So became from a very I was middle class, middle class background where money was there, but because not like an abundant, so we always learned from appearance to save. You know saving was in born in us, not that no investing and being very smart that you know with the investment by saving was already bridge in. So we know even my dream, my residents in three years when I finish my recency, I had more than hundred thousand dollars.

Uh, you know, dream, my resident says where we got getting paid close to sixty thousand every year, sort of that, you know, or know, I was able to close over ninety two, over ninety three thousand dollars I had saved. And I did not invested because had no idea at that time. All we were talking about is, you know, people doing their fellows shapes.

Researchers are talking about the cars. I was about people who had no idea what the investment is between read your book, which I had read a book, and right now I would have been much more, Better, Better position. But, you know, so that time, you know, we had no idea, but what we did was saved the money. So I was so, but we were all of this mean, a good saver to begin.

How much do you think you guys spend now? What do you think you're spending twenty twenty four.

I think even take his friend from one to twenty to one hundred fifty thousand a year because we don't have any tips or no, no, no mortgage is everything is unclear. We live in elsewhere, you know. So most of the money goes in paying up property taxes and then look, a lot of vacation, so spend on that.

And then my child goes to a lot of both school activities in private and is for resuming SHE. Please go off. So you know, so basically, those are our major expensive. So but still, I would say somewhere around one third maximum one fifty. And an idea is more than enough for us.

And do you remember the first conversation you had with your wife about money and what you're planned, how you guys we're planning to manage your money, tell us about that and how that went?

Yeah, my wife is not too much into that. So you know, he was used to work money to come. He just cares, eat good food and go to vacation. He is not into.

So basically, I was the one making hundred percent earning exactly same about because our job being working together at the same place, same job, our the tube salary was exactly minor copy of future there. Now we never did any extra lighting or export. So but most of the investment was done by me.

So initially, for the first five, six years, he didn't even knew. And I was putting so much money in stock. SHE didn't knew that we have saved so much of money because he would think that, okay, you know why you have to work so much?

So IT wasn't a later in part of my, and we moved this area. So where we start discussing and you know she's been happy because you know we have a hardly worked anything harder or we did any more education. We are the least qualified doctors in america.

We just do three year of residency. So you are not to say that you know need lot of and via work, you know less than one to twenty days a year, we work our full time jobs. So IT has been a very smooth sAiling for us. And I so we are very lucky, unfortunate to be position where we are right now.

Well, how do you view your careers now? Do you consider being a doctor important party life you planned to practice more later, less later, about the same amount later?

Yeah, no, I think is right now, our priority, as I said, is all spending time with my daughter. You know, that is the number one priority. So I don't want to do any full time.

You have a part time job because you don't have the flexibility in the ship and know when you work a part time full time, you will have to ask her vacation or days or for you know I want to be Better, you know, at least still he grows with the colleagues, which is another big 300 0， even more so that's the goal to do, but continue to a part time. I don't want to leave the job altogether. So yeah know, of course, mere decent income.

And then I don't want to have a big gap in my C V S. red. So that way I I S continue to work. Maybe when he is out of the house and to the college and step IT might go back work. More of voldemort haven't taught that by ahead.

But at right now, our my soul goal is to be at home at and spend as much as of time. That's the whole thing, why I pursue this financial independence, why I was investing aggressively knowing that, you know, my thought work out so I didn't have you know, there's a very certain amount of time with my daughter, which was very, very critical. And once I achieve, there was no point of voting, you know, as a first time.

Yeah okay, somewhere out there there's somebody is just like you were twelve years ago. Maybe they are immigrant, maybe they're not, but they are in medicine or family practice or something that maybe doesn't pay a gazillion dollars a year. And they want to reach financial independence relatively quickly. They want to do what you've done, what advice you have for them.

I mean, I would say first thing is like a post residencies, you know, when you start working, start saving and lazed, as you said, really live like a resident for the next four, five years. You know, be during recently, please study in our some personal finance and we know have some literacy because that was one of the drawbacks, which I I had no personal.

I didn't even know how how to file a acts and watch the proper the life, you know, started earning money. So if someone can know that a, you know, a very good a friend itself, but then you and before you start the family, if you're Young, work as much as possible, just focus on working, earning safe and key investing. I'm like just upfront that investment in the first five years will help a long way.

After that, once you have reached somewhere, you know, good network, then you can start thinking our game and spending time, your family and other support. I think up front, you need to save, save and save and invest money that as simple as that control your ego and self because you are doctor. I mean, like you know, you can see you'll get time to spend all your money.

But I think you know if you turn early as you know the components, how IT works is just that. Nor the smartest person. The person who starts the earliest is has a very high chance of winning this. What's the race or whatever you go?

How well come on I congratulate you and your wife and your daughter on your success and ah thank you so much for coming on the milestones podcast to share with others and inspire them to .

do the same and just .

so much having me all right.

that was a fun in interview to do right. You don't see that very often people become an F I, just twelve years out of residency, specially in especially that most of us considerate, relatively low paid, specially. right? This is not a neurosurgeon or north metics surgeon or a plastic surgeon or whatever you consider to be the the top earning special.

These, you know, it's international medicine. It's been a hospital. It's grinding out those twelve.

Our shifts, days and nights, submitted patients to the hospital, rounding on them, discharging patients, asking with hospital administrators, right, is not the world's easiest job. But you know what? If you work hard at IT, you get paid well.

If you save a big chunk of that income, you can obviously become wealthy very quickly. Now, cur, you know, address that. He got lucky with some of the stock picks he made, unless the honest was going on here, right? They make six hundred thousand dollars.

They spend one hundred and twenty to one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. You know, once he got over his new car thing, right after he got out a training, that leaves a big gap of money to save. You know, when you're save in three or four hundred thousand dollars a year, you know, that's three or four million dollars.

They save just in brute for saving. Yes, he grew. Their money grew because they invested IT, and stocks have done well. The socks they have picked y've done particularly well, but even they just bought all the stocks. They still have four, five million dollars right now, right?

IT wasn't the stock picking prowess or luck, as he describes IT, that enabled them to become wealthy, who was a high savings rate and working hard and earn in well and put the whole bunch of that into something reasonable. And you two can do that. Now most of us might pick a more moderate path.

We might not save seventy percent of our net income. And I don't want you to think that you have to save seventy percent of your net income to be a White code investor. You do not I do recommend you save twenty percent of your growth income that might work out to be closer to thirty percent of your net income.

That is kind of required if you want to maintain your standard of living. Once you get to retirement, you can, you know watch IT as you go and might be able to cut back sooner than you might think, saving that amount. But the point is the more you save and invest, the sooner you get to financial independence, and the sooner you're in control of your life, whatever you want to do IT to your life, if you want to go on work in another continent.

Ent, if you want to just be around to raise your nine year old, if you want to change your practice to something that you enjoy doing more um whatever you want to do is within your power as a doctor, you've already got a high income. And uh, the steps becoming wealthy are make a lot of money, don't spend a lot of money, take the difference between those who and invest in some reasonable way, then make sure you don't anything done to lose IT. That's basically all there is to get in rich.

But let's be honest, ninety percent of IT is in the earning. Most americans have an earnings problem. You're listen to this podcast, you probably don't have an earning problem.

All you got ta do is do the rest right? And as I tell people a lot when amount on speaking gigs, you know you're a little bit like the seattle seahawks in the super boy. I think he was back in twenty seventeen around the two yard line.

They've got the best running back in the nfl. Martian linch always gotto do is take two steps forward over the goal line, and there's super bold champions. Or what do they do? They call a complicated past play thrown, interception, the super bowl over and they lose.

That's like doctors when they come to managing their finances, right? They basically only got to do is take two steps over the goal line by virtue of having their high income. Now there's not that much else you have to do to build wealth, become financially and independent.

All you have to do is manage IT in some reasonable way. And uh, so that's my caution. You don't be like the seahawks right? Place smarter, you can and you can be successful. And you can do this even if you don't want to do IT twelve years, it's totally fine to do IT and twenty or twenty five or thirty years if you want to. Okay, I promise you have the beginning.

If we're going to talk about uh, retirement accounts, retirement savings plans, when if we want to call them for the self employee, self employed means you don't have a boss, right? You are the boss and uh so that might mean you're getting paid only ten ninety nine for most dogs as what I mean you don't get A W to A T M V A. You get a ten ninety nine.

I'm not going to talk about k ones you believe k waning partnership. And in a partnership, your retirement account options are mostly limited to what the partnership offers. Just like our new employee, you are limited to the retirement account offered by your employer.

When you're a self employed person, you are the employer, so you get to go out there and choose the employer offered retirement plans. okay. So let's talk about what those options can be if you are self employed.

The mainstay of retirement savings for the self employed is what's called an individual borrow one k and this is just a four one k where there's only one person in the company, right? You can have your spouse in there as well, but that's once you have more new spouse, you can employee beyond spouse. You can no longer use an individual or a solo for one thing.

But these are awesome. If you have one of these, you should be so happy because that is a great way to say if you make enough money and you don't have to make that much, depend on the type of contributions, you may to make enough money to sixty nine thousand dollars in there this year. For those under fifty for twenty twenty four goes up with inflation each year.

But sixty nine thousand dollars, a lot of money. You put sixty nine thousand dollars away every year for retirement and you were retiring multiple. Do you have you know any sort of reasonable Normal career?

Um the cool thing about these accounts though is you're in charge. You can go anywhere you want to open them up. Now these days, I actually think it's worth passing on some of the free ones that you can open the fidelity and shop.

You can't do this anymore than they got out of this business recently. But I actually think things worth paying someone to set the step for you. The reason why if you get a customized one from some of the people we have on our recommended page, do you go to the tab and go down to retirement plans, you're you'll see the sexy of people there.

They can help you do this, but they can put together a customize plan and the benefit that you get to choose all the investments, right? You can actually choose investments that aren't typically offered in. For one case, you can make a basically broken age when doing by anything available to broken age.

That often includes some private investments if you're interested in those sorts of things. And so that's cool. But you can also put in some cool options.

You can have a rough option. You can have an option to take loans from the four one k. You can allow after tax, employee contributions and in plan conversions, you put those two together is often called a mega back door roth ira.

Yes, you could put all sixty nine thousand dollars in there as rough contributions. So h, there's a lot cool things you can do when you have a customized plan. You're four one k offered by your employer, your partnership now for some of those, but it's pretty uncommon that IT offers all of them, but your individual four one k can offer all of them.

And as we've grown here, W C, I, we had a ban on our individual foreign case, but we opened up to four one k that offered all those options as well. And so it's been pretty awesome. Uh, feel participate in that not only as an owner employee, but I think the employees appreciate having a good for a one k as well.

Okay, that's the first option. A lot of you out there are sitting there with a step I array. And a step I array is used by lots of people that are self employed. The contribution total contribution of IT is the same sixty nine thousand, but IT has a number of downsides that makes us less than ideal for most White code investors. One is you don't have many options for like make a back door rough option in that sort of a thing.

You actually have to have more income and lot of situations to max IT out then you do with an individual one cake because you don't have know the twenty three thousand people under fifty employee contribution to help get you to that maximum contribution a lot of times um well set by not going allow for after tax employee contributions like an individual k can those are downsize? The other big downside though with the supplier is that counts toward the prodi calculation when you're doing your back door rough I R A each year. And so that's why a lot of White code investors avoided if they have a step I R A that tend to open an individual four one k and rolled the set vira in their is just not ideal, is not as good as an individual foreign.

The only advantage really that I has of an individual foreign k, making me open a little bit faster with the less paperwork. And you don't have to file a form called fifty five hundred easy. This is not a hard form to file, is just an informational return.

You have to do the I O S. Each year is due july thirty first. Every year when you had more than two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in the account at the end of the prior year as when you have to file. And so that's uh, that's not a bad thing to file, is not that hard to file.

You just have to remember to do IT because the penalties for not filing IT are terrible, right? And if you watch IT once, a lot of times they'll kind of forgive you if you ask him to and you can get out of those penalties. But the really high.

So if you have an individual four N K with more than two hundred and and fifty thousand dollars, and you do act to file a fifty five hundred easy every summer, I don't forget to do that. kay. Some companies, you know, small practice or whatever they decide to open, what's called is simple I R ray and simple dos mean, it's just an I ra, is not a traditional I ra.

It's a simple I R ray. And the problem with the simple lies is generally inferior to a four one. K know it's not as good as a step I R A. You can put as much money into IT, but in some situations, depending on who your employees are and how much they want to save, you might make sense. If you got a bunch of employees in your practice, they don't want to save a bunch of money.

A simply era can actually make sense to be the main retirement savings plan at your but if you're paid on a ten, ninety nine years in in been in contractor and you don't have any employees, you do not want to simply, ray, that is not the best plan for you. Don't open that. All the other thing you can do, how to mention this, we're getting the weeds here a little bit, but uh, you can actually open what's called a cash baLances plan.

This is a type of defined benefit plan or pension. You can open a personal one even if you're the only employee, right? You're paid on in ten ninety nine.

You're an independent contractor. You can open a personal defined benefit plan and depend on on how you are. You might be a whole bunch of money in there.

My partnership has a cash baLanced plan like this. I'm allowed by one hundred and twenty thousand dollars year in there. I was working more and cy and more patients learning more.

I could max that out right now. I don't make enough to max that out, but i'm only forty nine, right? If you're closer to sixty, you can put even more money in there. So if you really want to differ, a lot of money and uh, you know, dramatic, will lower your tax bill. You can open one of these plants IT costs a little bit more then, uh, you know you for one k does the investment options aren't quite as awesome.

There's a few more restrictions can remember this is a pension, you know, really is the next four one k but as mask Carrying as a pensions, so as to follow some pension rules. But eventually you just can roll baLance. Your foreman cake was like an extra four.

One k but something to look at, if you want to save more than that sixty nine thousand dollars, you can stuff indian individual for one k okay. The other thing, the other things you can do are things that anybody can do, right? Rather, there are employee or not, you can do a back to a rough I R A for you in your spouse.

You got to be where the prood calculation, if you got some money, sit in a step, simple or traditional I R A up. For most of us, if you're under fifty, you can put seven thousand dollars in there for you this year, and you can open one for a thousand, seven thousand dollars in there for them. Each year, obviously, ads, a two step process.

You put IT in the traditional I R A. Then you move to the rough I R A the next day or the next week or whatever. So you contribute to the rose.

Indirectly, that's another seven to fourteen thousand dollars. Uh, more of your fifty plus that you can put in there. Okay, everybody that whose only health insurance plan is a hy deducible plan can contribute to a health savings account.

I think the limit for this year is eight thousand, three hundred for a family. Remember, family can be you and your kid. IT doesn't have be you and a spouse.

And so that's another great savings account, right? Triple tax free. Yes, I can be invested. You don't even have take the money out the same year that you contributed that or that you spent IT on health care.

You can save the receipt for decades if you want, and pull the money out later, tax and panel free after eight sixty five, and act just like your I R A basically just comes on. And you got to pay tax on up, but no penalty, even if you're not spend on our health care. If you have access to an age to say there's really little reason not to max IT out, okay.

Uh, the other thing everybody has access to is just a taxi broker account, right? There's no contribution limit. There are no restrictions on when you pull the money out or what IT can be spent on.

Obviously, as tax as a grows, as the downside to IT compared all these retirement account. But IT is nice and flexible and you can put as much as you want to into IT. Um this is actually the biggest part of our savings.

Now just because we are able to say more than we are able to put into retirement accounts for a number of years, and that's the case for many people. But don't forget, a tax account is not the end of the world. You don't have to stop same more retirement just because you fill up your retirement accounts.

You can always invest more into a taxable or non qualified account. You can still invest in tax efficiently. Not typically, people are investing in things like a total stock market in next fun, are you municipal ond fund or things like that to keep a tax efficient um but there's no reason you can't invest as much as you want there.

All right. So I hope that is helpful to you as an overview of what is available to self employed when IT comes to retirement accounts. Our sponsor for this episode is thirty seventh paralo. Are you using multi family to build long term wealth? If not, I strongly encourage you to take a look at thirty sk parlow properties.

They are multifamily specialist with one hundred percent profitable track words across over one billion in transaction, billions in the two thousand eight, investing with them like partnering with a highly tax ivan's family office building income producing long term wealth development platform. For thirty seven parallel, you get access to institutional quality assets conservatively ly managed with proven results. The educational content on passive multifamily investors also very good, is thirty seven parallel dot com slash W C I today for more information.

Thanks so much. Been with this today. We appreciate you listening to the podcast and being out of the White code investor community.

Keep your head up and your shoulder back. You've got this were heard help. I'll see the next time on the podcast.

The host of the White code investor are not licensed accountants, attorneys or financial advisers. This podcast is for your entertainment and information only. IT should not be considered professional or personalized financial advice. You should consult the appropriate professional for specific advice relating to your situation.