WCI #395: Navigating the Nuances of Career, Family, and Money with Dr. Lisha Taylor
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This is the White coat investor podcast where we help those who where the White coat get a fair shake on wall street. We've been hoping doctors and other high income professionals stop doing dumb things with their money since two thousand eleven.

This is White code investor podcast, navigating the nuances of career, family and money with doctor. He certainly, first of all, welcome to the podcast doctor Taylor. Thank you so much .

for having me IT is a really nice to be here to see your face and to know that you're healing all of those things. So it's great.

Thank you. I appreciate your kind words for those who don't know, doctor or to lease a Taylor is a new podcast out called the wealth minded d as well an associated coaching business. I can all be found.

You get more details about that. A wealth minded md slashed W. C. I, our sponsor for this episode is so fat, helping medical professionals like us bank barron best to achieve financial illness. Sofi offers up to four point six percent A P.

Y on their savings as an investment platform, financial planning and student on refinancing feature and exclusive ate discount for many professionals, one hundred dollar amount payments for residents, check out all the sofa offers that why code investor that comes flash sofa months originated by sofa bank and a one services of products is security number and rs, I, P, C investment comes of dress with the loss didn't terms conditions may apply. All right, first of all, thank you everybody out there for what you do. This is not easy work you do.

Sometimes we forget this, you know, talking to one of our staff members uh, yesterday, who has a sibling who is in recency there in the first year of of a residency and and really feel the heat and wondering, is this what I should be doing with my life? And unlike well as because up until this point, they're just been preparing and now they're finally doing. And we forget the medicine is not easy.

It's hard. And so all of you out there who doing a day to day, well, you've been doing IT for a year, whether you've been doing IT for thirty years. Thank you so much. Those of us who have needed your services recently, and i've needed a lot of your services as recently is really very much appreciate. okay.

Before we get into your questions, we've got to make sure we let you know about big sale on sale black friday, twenty seven and november through december second and is basically twenty percent of everything at our store and our courses. All you have to do is put in the code, save twenty, gets you twenty percent off. I could be hundreds of dollars off some of these things.

And so make sure use that if you've been waiting for a discount to buy A W C, I course or you want to buy some swag for your favorite W C I. Now the time save twenty percent off. Okay, let's let's get into some questions, shall we? Well, first, I guess we got to do a correction.

This is not unusual press to do corrections on the White code investor because we grow up a lot. And that's because we talk about complicated stuff. And I would rather get into the complicated stuff and screw up every now and then and have to issue a correction, then just keep a superficial and never talk about that stuff.

So this one is actually not my mistake. So i'm just covering for some of the other people have been host in lately. This one comes from the episode we had and some student loans recently with Andrew from student on by a stock com as well as Tyler Scott.

And Andrew said this about the psl buyback program that he talked about in that episode. And the correction is basically that borrowers would be eligible to apply for P. S.

I. Left by back once they reach one hundred and twenty months of qualifying employment, not one hundred and twenty qualifying payments. So monster in the save legal limbo make out is credit towards P.

S. To left buyback. And they were to clear. They wish they would have been, and they cause little confusion. We got a few emails that afterwards. So hopefully that is Crystal clear now okay, let's talk today.

Since we've got lisa here, let's talk about arrival fantasy, showing what are you? Can you define that and and give us your thoughts on arrival? polite? And why is he so common among dogs and other White code investors?

Yeah so you know, when I think of the arrival fallacy, I think of this idea that once we get to a certain mark, once we achieve a certain goal, that we're going to experience this exponential level of happiness and that that happiness is gonna last indefinitely. And what we've seen time and time again, myself included, is that for a lot of physicians, that just doesn't seem to be the case.

You know, a lot of us think that once we start making more money, once our income goes up three, four, five times, that our life is gonna so much Better. And what we experience, what I know i've experience is it's almost like once the money gets to positive and almost gets taken out just as best because we realized that when we make more money, we now have to pay a higher percentage and taxes. When we make more money, we now need to beef up our emergency funds or we need to save for house, or we want to upgrade our car or buy a home or sinter kids to private school or whatever.

And so we've got all these uses for cash. And IT just doesn't seem like we have enough. And I think for myself, for a lot of my friends, it's surprising.

I mean, we can think back to when we were in turns making sixty thousand dollars a year and you couldn't tell us we weren't going to be rich making two hundred thousand. I mean, we would look at our tending and they would say, oh, it's not that much and we would go they are crazy. They just don't manage money, right? They're just doing something wrong.

We're going to be the exception to the rule. And the joke is onest because we now understand what they're talking about. And so I think a lot of doctors are feeling that way. So if I had to summarized that, I would save a lot of doctors sort of over estimate the amount of happiness that we're gonna get from the increase in income. And we underestimate the other factors in our lives that really have the biggest benefitted or the biggest impact on our happiness. Those other factors being, you know, the people that we work with, whether or not we have to support that we desire at our job, whether or not we feel like we have control over our time or over our schedule, whether or not we can spend as much time with our kids are our family. So I think we over index on the money part, and we kind of underestimate the impact of the other things.

Yeah for sure. Super common. And the timing on this, uh, recording is perfect because this morning is six thirteen in the morning, somebody posted this on the W.

C. I. forum. What's your happiness in life after becoming financially free for those who achieve financial freedom? What is your source of happiness in life? I met a stage.

I'm just going through the motions at work. I don't need the money made from work. However, I planned to work intensely for several more years to help out my medical partner to ensure the department is running smoothly.

By the time I quit, retire or being my forties, have no clue what to do. Afterwards, i'm pondering the next step of life. I thought about they're finding a good woman and mary being a playboy and live in a heaton's tic lifestyle, or diving deep into religion and live in a monastic lifestyle.

I've been talking to various people watching youtube videos, reading the lazy as to broaden my perspectives, but i'm still not certain what direction to take. Chasing financial success is learn in the beginnings. There are so many options and possibilities on how to progress when you start with less than nothing.

You know, IT is wild. And, uh, I mean, great that you have these choices, right? Great that this is your dilema.

I I actually love helping people with first world problems. And that's many of what we talk at the White code, investor pressure. But the truth about money is, like you said, right?

More money just makes you more of what you are already IT doesn't change you IT just makes you more of that thing if you are unhappy before, having more money is going to make you happy. If you are happy before, you're probably still happy when you have more money. Now, let's be honor.

So more money does solve a lot of problems in life, especially if you know how to spend IT, right? I mean, if you hate clean in your house, guess what? When you have more money, you know, I have to clean your house.

You can pay somebody else to do IT. And does that make a little happier? absolutely. IT does. So it's not kid ourselves IT doesn't make any happier at all. To have a little more right is a little nice day to fly first class and IT is to fly an economy absolutely IT is but don't over estimate how much happiness you can add your life through. Things like that is a little bit, but is not as much as most people think.

Yeah I I totally agree with you. In fact, I was IT reminds me I was having brunch with one of my girlfriend. We went to medical school together and I went to fell ship and SHE didn't so she's been in attending longer than I have.

And remember, we're eating and I was like, you know, this feels different than what I thought I would feel like and she's like, what do you mean? And I like to be honest, I don't feel rich like I thought that you know, attending the first pay check the side on but I was like, I I thought I was gonna live in large and I don't feel rich and he goes, you do and I go, no, do you and he goes, yeah I think i'm rich and you know, first, there's there's a lot of feelings going through my mind right now. A lot of thoughts I like, you know, he's emergency medicine physician like you jam. And I thought I knew how much he made, but like, clearly way Better than I think.

The funny thing about emergency mediation, right, how much you make is mostly how much you work, right? I mean, it's mostly trading time for money. Some jobs pay a little Better than others. Obviously, if people work a lot， you can make a lot .

of money in i've i've learned i've learned so you know she's like he you know telling me that and then she's like, but lisa, your rich too and that I was like, okay, alright I don't know how much you think I made um but is probably not as much as the number you're thinking in your mind and because no no no, no, no like you can comfortable ly pay your rent. Your bills are on auto pay. You don't think about the Price of food or groceries.

You travel consistently and you have so much money left over that you can save consistently. you. time. So you know you give ten percent to your church and you know you're investing thousands of dollars each month and you're paying extra towards your student.

Like the reason you don't feel IT is because you doing all of these other things, but if you weren't doing those things, then you probably would feel as rick as you are. And so I think that for me, I was like a change in mindset of saying, okay, let me stop comparing myself to other doctors that I know makes substantially more than me, and try to remember like how blessed I really air. And that, you know, obviously, there are some things that i'm hoping for and believing for, and like trusting god for in those sorts of things.

But you know, when I think about, okay, you know, i've live in a nice place. I'm very healthy. I make more than the average american I the discount t of job security.

I've got a family that loves me. I've got friends that I joy and value to my life. So i'm thinking, like, okay, do I live in a mansion? no.

Do I have this luxury car? No, but like a part of this for me, and like sort of dealing with this arrival false, and dealing with this idea that medicine doesn't feel. Like how I thought I would feel, is me remembering, like how bless I am, and like changing my mindset on my old life.

Yeah, I think mindset, a big piece of IT. This, this is an issue, though, among dogs. Another higher.

This is a very common not to feel rich. I wrote a blog post, I think reality in twenty seventeen. And we try that out again every few years. But I literally call IT ten ways to feel rich because because people, they don't feel rich.

And the first thing on there was you actually get rich because there's a lot of people who think the rich and aren't right because they confuse income and wealth, right? I mean, high income is not actually rich, right? A doctor might come out of of training and and and be making three hundred thousand dollars here, but they're networks actually minus four hundred thousand, you know, because they got all the student longer.

They're not rich yet. So the first thing I to help people is get rich first, then you can worry about feeling rich, you know. But a lot of IT is uh is simply recognizing anxiety, right? You're always onna have you're always going have worries about money. You always going to you know, it's natural for us to look up and not look down, right? We look at people to have more than us, and that's the natural thing to do.

So sometimes maybe we just need to hang out with a different set of Jones is you know i'm saying we're hanging out with the wrong Jones is, uh, when I was in first and attending, we were not living in a very nice neighborhood, were just office. And those who have lived near a military base know what just off base means. IT was not a nice neighbor, but we had felt rich compared to everybody there, even though I was only making like one hundred twenty thousand dollars a just because we were not hanging out with a particularly wealthy set of Jones.

And another thing I think that helps is what you mention, right? You mentioned that your tiger giving money away is very good for our psyches, right? You're talent. You're you're in whatever you anna call IT not a psychiatry of this thing, whatever you want to call you, but you're spending this subliminal al message that you have enough when you're giving money away.

And so I think giving money away is a great way to feel uh as riches you are and um so that about blog posts anyway, you can look at up on the website ten ways to feel rich if you're rich and not feeling rich that's a great blog post to to help you reset your mind, your mindset on IT. okay. Uh, let's talk about baLance. This is a big issue for all dogs. You know i'm trying to baLance right.

I'm not playing any hockey teams because i'm still got a hand in the splint, but i'm coming two hockey teams and balancing two jobs you know family, more volunteer work at church at a baLanced hard for all of us, but I think is particularly chAllenging our Young mothers, right? Cause you throw in what's often refer to as mom guilt, right? How do we baLance this, particularly for for Young mothers that uh that are struggling with this?

yes. So let me first say I am not a mother but I have a lot of friends who are um and so I onna answer this question from maybe their perspective in my conversations with them. You know whenever whenever i'm talked of my friends who have just had kids, which is a lot of my friends, i'm in my thorius lot of my friends are in their thirties.

So it's this court of this prime time where people are expanding their families. And they talked me about that all the time, and, you know, is especially interesting talking to my female decision friends, because for them, it's not just I want to spend time with my family or I want to feel fulfill that work. There's also this guilt of, did I do IT all or nothing?

You know, I went to medical school. I took out the student loans. I am very highly educated. I went through all this, quote on, quote, trouble.

I went through all of this just to now come to the realization that medicine doesn't fulfill me in the same way. But I still feel this obligation to work because I can technically work, and I have a skillset that society finds useful. So am I wasting my skill set, you know.

And so there's there's all of these thoughts. And one of the things that I tend to say that than one of the things that I tend to go to doctors on or talk to doctors about is maybe it's not an all or nothing. Maybe it's not A, I need to quit my job or, you know, I need to work more, pay for talk, care, all of those things.

Maybe IT is about trying to find some more flexibility in your schedule. You know, one of the things that I was really intentional about when i've finish fellowship and I started as an attending, is figuring out what things were most important to me. Yes, money is important. If someone that used to work and finance money is very important to me, but so is schedule flexibility, so is living close to my family.

And so for me, I had to make the hard decision because i'm specialized sports medicine is do I want to try to make as much money as I can as as a specialist? Or is my priority having the most schedule flexibility? And I was going back and forth on this decision, right? Make as much money working in auto planet, just crank out patients, you know make a uh a substantial amount of each year?

Or do I work in an academic institution or maybe worked part time, that sort of thing. And I decided to work at an academic institution, so I makes essentially less than I could. But one of the things that I have that a lot of my colleagues don't have a schedule flexibility. I only see patients fifty percent at the time.

So I am a full time physician, but I have fifty percent at many time, right? So for the academic institution, one of the things that was really important to them is not going over budget as they hired me and I said, OK, well, what we can come up to and salaries, maybe we can make up on the back end in terms of clinical time as so for me, I don't see patients on fridays. I don't see patients on wednesday and I don't see patients on monday mornings, right as.

So sometimes I look at my friends who are sports medicine physicians, or maybe there are in other specialties, and I go, man, IT would be nice to make a substantive amount of money. But then I also look at myself and I go, you know, I still make a multiple six figures, and I have every friday off and I have every wednesday off, and I can do all of these things. And so i'm saying this to say that maybe it's not or nothing maybe is about creating more flexibility in your schedule and being really good and negotiating and advocating for your case and, you know, figuring out, okay, these are the things that are important to me.

Let me also see what are the things that are important to my employer. One of the things that i'm always helping women on, especially when IT comes and negotiating, and sometimes we think we got to negotiate one thing at a time, right? I want to to hire our salary someone to try to get that.

And then you I want friday's off or more admin time, something to try to get that. But sometimes it's Better to negotiate IT as a package because you don't really know what's most important to your employer. First is let's most important to you.

And had I not negotiated this whole thing as a package, I might not have come to the same conclusion, right? I might not have gotten the same packet. And so for me, when i'm, you know, talking to doctors, it's like, okay, how can we change your schedule, right?

Let's think about what our ideal life is. Let's think about what we really want and live. And let's say, okay, what tweak could we make and our current schedule that would make that Better? And then let's practice negotiating for that.

Let's practice advocating that for that. You let's practice putting ourselves in a position to get some of those things that we want. And so I think that, that really helps. Is the schedule flexibility part.

No pressure is the phrase I often use this optimized for longing vi, when you're making a career decision, what is going to allow you to stay in the career longer? Because the biggest financial risk that doctors have is burnout. You know I mean, fifty percent doctors have burn out.

Now that is the risk. You cannot buy burn out insurance. You can buy disability insurance, but you can't buy burn out insurance. So make those decisions in a way that you know if you're looking at us to think I can do this three more years, you got to change something right um because three years isn't going to cut IT for most of us.

Most of us are not only three years away from retirement, right? You've tt a figure out a way to make this career work for you longer than that. And what do that right is off fewer patients per hour or less call or whatever IT is you need to, to figure that out and and make those changes as early in your careers you can.

And each time this sort of thing comes up, ask yourself, what's going to make me happier in the long run? You know, take a long term perspective on IT because are in the beginning you got a million uses for money, right? You got student loans to pay off you, you probably a credit card, you brought out a residency, you know you still got a car loan or you ve got a beater car, then he should be replaced.

You want to mark out your retirement accounts, you know, you want to get into a house. And now housing is so expensive, you got to save up some huge down payment. You know, we've all got these great users for money.

And we get the short term mindset and forget that our career, two or three or four decades, right? Pace yourself a little bit here, you know, pace yourself for crying out now. Okay, let's let's change subjects.

Let's talk about fire. You know, the acronym is financially independent. Retire early. And the question that I think we're going to discuss today is, does pursuing fire cos burnout or is IT the remedy to burn out? yeah.

So I think this is a good one. You know, I think about this all the time, especially when I thinking about like my own personal situation because i'm someone who's like to say I minded right as i've got all these financial goals that I want to hit, and i'm trying to hit them as soon as possible, right? And I want to achieve some level of financial freedom as early as possible, have more control over my time, do all of those things.

But then i've learned that in my pursuit of those things, in my desire to reach financial freedom as soon as possible, I sort of deprived myself of some of the things that I would enjoy going back to my conversation with my friend about feeling rich, right? You know, she's like I, if you didn't do all of those things, if you didn't have all those financial goals and maybe you would be richer, right? Maybe it's that i'm still living like a resident and so it's like, okay, I want to pursue this goal.

I want to pursue this financial freedom. I want to have all of these side gigs, but now i'm so tired and i'm so exhausted that i'm thinking about quitting. And so for me, it's been all about finding a job that I would enjoy, right, having some control over my schedule because what's that quote?

It's like if you do something you like on a schedule that you can't control, IT turns IT into something that you hate. And so for me, i've been trying to do something that I like, A K A medicine and honest schedule that I can Better control. And then also for me, it's also been about monitise ing my passions, right?

If I could do something that I love that also helps people and that also brings an extra income on the side, then IT doesn't make me feel like i'm working as much because I think for a lot of doctors, we know that we can work more to make more. And so our remedy for not feeling like we have enough is just working more shift. And although that just solve the problem temporarily, like, you know, this question was is sort of can lead to burn up. So for me, it's, can I find another way to make money, a way that doesn't feel like work, a way that still allows me to do something that I enjoy? And for me, that's monitise a passion.

Let's take a question of the speak pipe here. This on this subject, let's take a listen to this. Hi, i'm in my final year residency and my husband just completed his residency. We have been reviewing our financial plan and making some updates and changes. Um we, like many other physicians, don't love medicine and would like to become financially free sooner rather than later.

What is being said, my question is where's the best place to puts money so that we can access IT earlier than the typical retirement age without all of the penalties associated with taking money out early? Thank you. Appreciate IT. wow.

Before we get to our question, let's talk about the the overarching background of this question, right? This is a dog that hasn't really even started her attending career and already wants out of medicine and is looking for really what what's the fastest way out of medicine? What if he'd walked in as a coaching client? What what topics would you be talking about, right? I mean, are there other Better remedies to burn out than fire?

I am okay. So first of all, if he came me, I was gratuity, right? First of all, I think he said her husband is done with training and she's almost with training, right? I know that medicine is hard. I know that training can be so um the first thing is congratulations right this this is hard work done IT but I will admit makes me caught a sad right like these are two people who know yet started their careers as attending physicians and already like he said, one out of medicine and it's a good checking me as somebody who like works with a resistance y program is like what are we doing so wrong and training that two people that are clearly very, very intelligent and obviously once were very excited and optimistic about becoming doctors right?

Image, imagine reading, imagine reading the essays they put in there on their applications to the school. Imagine what they said the day they matched into residency, right? And now by the end of training or shortly after training, they don't feel that way anymore, right? Yeah happened what happened, you know yeah so I mean.

so this is a good tet for me, like maybe I can add more willingness programs. Maybe we can work with the schedule, you know, as somebody who works in medical education. But um you know another thing I think is what I tell my resonant sometimes when they come to me feeling similar sentiment is that okay?

I understand that this may not be what you thought I was going to be. I'm going to acknowledge that because I too was in your shoes. However, being in attending and certain you know ways is Better than being a resent tell them, you know a resented clinic is probably very inefficient.

Things tend to get more efficient when you become an attending right. There are certain things that you're dealing with now that you may not have to deal with when you're in attending. Right now, you have zero control over your schedule.

Ideally, you'll have more control over your schedule when you're attending right now, you're probably working sixty, seventy, eighty hours a week. If not more, you have ability to not work that much when you're an attending. So one of my things is some reassurance that this is hard.

Everyone thinks it's hard and IT will get Better. Now how much Better depends on what special to you're in, in the job that you choose and that sort of thing. But there is a light of the end of the tunnel.

I know IT looks like it's bickering and sometimes IT doesn't look like it's on, but IT is there. IT will get writer. And so giving some reassurance and some sort of hope and optimism.

yes, for sure, some hope and optimism. I think this is, I mean, the first thing I tell a dog when they come to and say, I think I burned out. The first thing I tell them is one SHE cut back to full time.

I mean, a resident is working to full time jobs. Of course, you're burned out your fuse to be burned out, right? Uh, everybody's burned out working two jobs. That's why you can only do IT for three or four or five years or whatever. You know that residents can last longer because everybody quit, you know, so don't make a decision about your career and how you want your career to look in your financial life, to look while you're still in training work in seventy five hours the weekend taking q three call or whatever.

You're just not a position you can make this decision yet, so don't shape everything else in your life? Or am I love planning ahead and making financial plans? Know that but don't make that much of a definitive plan while you're still sitting in residents because you may feel very differently in two or three years, especially if you optimize your career for longevity, you know, uh, I think that's a that's just wait too early to a to really be making big decisions like when you're going to retire and you're still in training for trying out out.

But let me give a little personal perspective as well. When we're recordings this the day after the election, which is also the day before my podcast dropped a few weeks ago, they talked about my fall up on the grand tea on the the first episode of that as dropping tomorrow, the day after we're recording this. And i'm i've been is eleven weeks today from the day that I fell on the grand tea on and I just went back to work three days ago.

I just saw patients again for the first time three days ago. Eleven weeks is the longest I have gone, not seen patients since two thousand one, right? It's what's at twenty three years.

I haven't gone that long without seeing a patient eleven week. So my partners are now starting to refer to IT as my sabbatical right this time I took off. But let me tell you about my shift.

I went in there and i'd been looking forward to you. And i've been missing IT for week, right? Because I had done any medicine for weeks.

I went to one conference in second, a bunch of lectures, but I hadn't actually seen a patient in over two months. And I went in there. I SAT down.

I was the most patient doctor you've ever seen. I was most empathetic doctor you've ever seen. You can blue that every patient was thanking me. What a great doctor. I was trying to give me to be the primary doctor because, you know, i'd had this chance to step back, to be a patient myself, to miss practicing medicine, to want to get back, to fight and work hard so I could get back. And IT was a totally different perspectives.

Then when i'd worked, you know, six night shift in a row as a resident, you know, I was totally burnt out because six night shift in a rose fuck and it's terrible you're taking care of crazy, weird medicine and you know a certain segment of society and a and a million people want your attention once and and is burn out in duced. So I think step back for a little bit. Maybe if you're feeling this burn out of the end of training, take a couple months off before you start your attending job, you know, start out, you know, not in some crazy call kinds schedule, you know, set IT up in a way that you're going to have some career lung javy.

Yeah, yeah. I agree with that. Agree with that. I definitely took several months off before I started my attending job, and I think I may thin so much Better.

Like you said, jam, I was looking forward to seeing my first patient as an attending. I was patient. I wasn't rushing with the patience. And so I was I was really, really nice. And so.

Yeah, I encourage all of almost everyone that I you know talk to who is ending training to take some time off for that reason because I don't think that this color is in the minority. I think a lot of residents, like you said, phil burnt out, feel like medicine isn't what they thought I would be, and are thinking, how long do I have to do this again? right.

And so taking a couple of months off after training as a good reset, often times one of the reasons why people may not do that or maybe apprehensive is they worried about how they're to paper health care or having some money during that time. And there are ways that you can get some money, right? You can do some welcome work at an urge care or something like that to make ends meet, you know, once a week, once every two weeks, or something like that.

So you can activate cobra, your job. There is a different things that you can do to make a time for this. But like you said, jm, I think, I think a lot of residents, they are gonna our feeling burned out um and should strongly considers taking some time off after training.

I think you might help to go back and read mission, say medicine too right? I mean somewhere deep down inside you and it's been beat up like crazy the last you know seven or eight or nine years, somewhere deep down inside you, that optimistic, you know, loving, empathetic person is still in there. You're till in there.

And to get them back out might require you not work in sixty five hours a week and might require you work in thirty hours a week. But all that you can rediscover the joy of medicine. Most people, maybe not everybody, maybe a few people, you just chose the wrong career.

And and either you got to get out of and go do something else, or you save up enough money and get out and in a few years and go do something mouse, or just go do something mouse. You hopefully don't have student lon burden that forces you to practice medicine for a few years if you really, really, truly hate IT. But I would help them.

We could get most people feeling this way at the end of their training to a point where they can enjoy a ten year, twenty years, thirty year plus career in medicine and find the joy they are looking for the financial, no success they were hoping to get from IT as well and make a huge contribution society. Okay, we ve got to answer the question too, right. And what? How should I save differently? Thinking about early fire? Well, a lot of people think they should go, oh, well, I gotta do.

I've got to save IT all in taxable. I ve got to save IT in my taxable account. I don't want to contribute to retirement accounts.

I would caution you against that almost always. You're going be Better off saving for retirement, even early retirement. In retirement accounts, in tax protected accounts, es are accounts where the growth is protected from taxes, right? You don't pay on dividends and capital gains as you get as you go along. And you may get attacked arbitrage later when you pull the money out, but it's also asset protected, right?

If having formed, you have a very rare about policy limits judgment against you, you get to keep that money in those retirement accounts, you know, arise that accounts in all states and I rs and solo for one case set that aren't rise accounts in many states. I get at least some protection, if not complete protection, like we do here in utah for our retirement accounts. And the other thing, keep in mind, if you have a job, offer you a four fifty seven, right?

There's no age fifty five rule. There's no age fifty nine and a half rule that applies to four fifty. You can head up a fifty seven, so pays out over five years as soon as you separate from the employer.

And so maybe that's an account they can grow in a tax protected way that offer some asset protection. You can touch before age fifty five, age fifty nine and a half. They are.

Then keep in mind is the number of exceptions to these rules are are just pleasant. There's lots of right. You can pay for health insurance without the ten percent family applying. If you are disabled at all, you can get IT out without ten percent penalty applying. You can get IT out in death.

There is the separation le substantially equal period payments rule, basically as long you take out the same amount every year from the time you retire at forty five or whenever until you fifty nine and a half and there's no ten percent penalty on that. So you can get your retirement money earlier than you think you can without that penalty. That's not a reason to just stick everything in taxable and ignore your real accounts.

But the truth is, those who are saving enough to retire that quickly, they're probably max out the retirement accounts and saving me up a big taxi ble account. Anyway, you're going to have a taxable account you can touch and just let this borrowing case in irr ride until age fifty five or age fifty nine and half. Do you know about that age fifty five rule though? At fifty five you can get access to your poor one k right, if you don't roll over and to an I if you separated from the employer, right, you quit working and you retired.

You can get that at fifty five penalty free. You don't have to wait in to twelve, fifty nine and behalf for a one k or three b. So keep that rule in mind as well.

That would get you, you know, born a half more years that you might not have thought of. What do you think? What would you tell somebody they want to save? You know, I wanted to retire really early, was worried about those ten percent penalties, have taken money of retirement concerns? Ly.

yeah, exactly. So, you know, retirement accounts, my number one, I know that this colors said that they wanted to avoid fees and penalties. But as you jam, there are lot of exceptions to the rule, right? And so for me, I plan to not work until i'm sixty five either.

I still utilize retirement accounts. And for me, that encompasses three main accounts. So number one, my four or three b, that's at my job, right? I contribute the maximum cheer and I get the match of my employer.

That also encompasses, for me, a solo for one k if you're one in three physicians that have a side gig that's with a study show, one in three physic has a side gig if you are one of those positions that has a side gig, then you have the ability to open up a solo for one k and so that's one of the things that i've done, right? So with a solo for one K, I can contribute more money to return the house in addition to what I already contribute at my jobs. Four three b so, but that solo four one K I can contribute pre tax, you know, twenty percent of my profit.

Plus I can set IT up to do a mega back door roth and contribute even more money. So for me, it's maxing out my four three b contributing as much as I can to my solo for one k it's doing my back door roth ira cheer. So I utilized retirement account, this number one on my list.

You know, another account to that you may want to consider, this color may want to consider, is an H H A, A account. So if you've got access to a high deductable health plan at your job, and that means that you can contribute money to an agc account, what I think a lot of people may not realize is one of their biggest expenses. And early retirement is the cost of health care.

And so utilizing that hsc account can be particularly beneficial. I put some money in there. You mention the four, fifty seven b account.

You know, a lot of physicians, especially physicians at work at non profit institutions, have access to that. And like you mentioned, jm, it's not a retirement account, but IT works really similarly to one. And that you can put in pretext money, allow that money to grow tax free.

And then unlike the retirement in account, you don't have to utilize all these exceptions to the rules. You can kind of get access to that money as soon as you leave your employer. And so I like those accounts.

And you know, one of the things always tell my friends is don't be afraid of a taxable account. You just you know do that when after you've done the other ones. But there no wrong with having money in a broken age account. So that's just calling fidelity, calling backyard, you know contributing some money into that account, investing IT in some reasonable way, you know, index neutral funds, that sort of thing, and letting IT grow over time and then knowing that you have the ultimate flexibility with that account as well. And so that's kind of my waterfall work retire account solo four one k back door rh I R A H S C four fifty seven b and then my broker to council that's kind of the waterfall that that I would go through yeah and even .

if you you know clean out the entire broken age account before you get age fifty nine and half, that's okay, right? Because after you get at fifty nine and half, all that other stuff is accessible with no penalty. Very flexible, right?

People forget, you know, you don't have to wait to R, M, D age. You only take out your M, D. You can take out whatever you want out of ose accounts pending free if it's pretext got to pay taxes on and if it's if it's routh account, you pay taxes on IT.

So um I think people worry about this question too much. And I agree too many people out, they're worry about using a taxable account, right? A tax account can still be invested very tax efficiently.

Most of our portfolio currently is in a taxable account, uh, and that's a good thing because they usually means you're making enough money that you can save more money than you can put into your retirement account. It's not a bad thing that have a taxable account hard. Let's change the subject.

Let's talk about inherited ance. And to tee this up, i'm going to read an email I got um which I I was really good came in from a regular White investor. I'm a dog in my late fifties and i'm starting to consider retirement in the not too distant future.

I have two Young adult, IT is one thousand nine hundred and twenty three. And i'm interested in finding a way to give them an advanced inherit. I worked hard and saved and invested well throughout my career, and unfortunate to have more than enough to retire well when I want to.

However, I don't see a lot of value and sitting on all this money until I am old and dead, hopefully a very long time from now. All of my children be in a position to need my money in their fifties or sixties, but they are certainly at a period in their life right now where where that money would do them so much good. But I don't really know how all of that works given gift taxes, capital gains taxes on my taxi account is set a curious if you have any ideas of how to provide inherent from my children while I am still alive. And I think you've had a bit of an experience with this. You wants to share your .

experience yeah so ah I love this question because he reminds me of a conversation that i've had with my dad.

So my dad is in his early sexy to mid sixties camera raised his that day dad, if you're listings, i'm sorry he's somewhere in that range, you know and he's made several comments to myself and my two older brothers that he could comfortable ly retire now if he wanted to, that he likes his job and he says, you know, me and you're mom will be well taken care of. You know, I don't even know if I could since you know all of the money that I have now. And of course, that may be guilty, right? I'm like, okay, you know, I don't have to worry about help and mom and dad out, that's nice.

Exactly of our parents are okay and that's number one, right? I don't have to go and held them that they have enough for them. Forget the an arms.

I 就是说 你 not to have to help them because there are so many dogs out there that is not just their parents are helping its sibling to， uncles to and they're supporting in people moving from another country and you know it's a big deal but I I love the your first point, which you know you don't have to help them, which is great. I say that's great gift. Even the parents can give nothing else to their kids if they can be self sufficient. That's wonderful.

I mean, that that that might have come out wrong. I do love you like, I wouldn't mind helping you if I needed to. I just seem to put that this game out there. But yes, so I was like, okay, he doesn't might help the second thing, uh, I was like, wow, maybe there's something in IT for us, right?

Me my two older brothers were like, oh yeah, all right, that's going to come through for us but then, to be honest, I got a little sad because similar to this email, I thought to myself, well, my parents are really healthy right now, even in there are six season. And so there's a really good chance that now they're going to live to be in their eighties or nineties or beyond. And so that means by the time they pass away, if they lift us in, in here, attends, we would be in our fitness and sixties.

And you know, no one's gone. Turn down. Free money, of course, but like it's probably not going to change the quality of our life.

My brothers and I have pretty good job, or pretty financially sound, but you know what would change our lives getting that money now? Because, you know, my dad paid for my undergraduate education. I went to do university, so that was not cheap, but he did not pay for my medical school. He was like, note, note, note, you need to invest in your own education.

So i've got student loans that i'm paying off right? My middle brother um and my sister law are pregnant baby number two right? And so my brother is having this delima now i've got ta pay higher, talk care of, and so do I switch jobs so that I can make more money.

But then in the act of me doing that, maybe i'll see my kids less. My oldest brother, him and his wife, are running out of space in their home. And so they are actively how something, and so then getting money now could make a bit difference, right? Maybe they could afford a nicer home in a safer area, in a Better school district.

And so all of us are like debt. So you want to have an inheritance ance, you know, right? And don't you want your kids to live a Better life than you did, right? But my dad wasn't buying IT.

He grew up very poor. And he felt like the act of him, sort of struggling to make ends meet, helped him to develop the grit and the resilience that made him who he is today. And so he's like barry, a gift giving us cash.

And so we are like, okada, can we come to some sort of a happy medium here? Don't you want to help us out? And so he decided, but he wasn't going to give us money, but he was gone to give us experiences.

And so he didn't have the ability to travel and he was Younger, he didn't have the money, he didn't have the time off. But now he has both of those things. And so he's decided that he's going to pay for family vacations.

He said, you guys use your money for your financial priorities. You want to pay off your loans. You want to buy a house.

You want to, you know, pay for daycare, do those things. But I want to create memories with you all. And so i'm going to pay for family vacations.

And so last year we went to alaska. We did this seven day of last conclusion was incredible. My once and uncles were there.

Earlier this year, we went to south africa. We did cake town. We did whole african safari.

We blued us. And bob way and saw Victoria falls. We've done europe. So we've gone to london in paris and which are in italy and all of these things.

And so for him, he loves that because he gets to trouble, and he gets to trouble with the people he loves the most, which is us, of course, and we like IT because we probably wouldn't be Better than as much like without his help. And so my dad's happy medium right now is paying for family vacations. Everything that he's done is he's said, hey, I don't really wanna give you cash, but I don't want you to feel like you're struggling to that degree.

And so if you need money, you have to come to me with a business plan. So if we have some idea or something within reason, he says, then we have to tell what we want the money for, telling the amount, right? Create some sort of plan.

And he says that we create the terms of how we're gonna pay him back. And he says it's an interest free loan, but if we need something, that we can come to him and get IT. And so for us, it's been really cool because I think my brother, like, wanted to go to china with his business school class, right? He couldn't afford the trip.

And so he came to my dad and know my dad that, okay, i'm going to paid for this strip, but you gotto pay me back. You got to pay me back over x month time, example dollars. And so for us, IT still gave us that feeling of, like, there's not free money, but IT also gave us the security of knowing, like dad got her back. So that's sort to help my dad has done IT. I wish that he would do with the way you're doing your kids, jim, because I really could use that twenty or authorities fun but you know what, i'm going to just be grateful for .

what I have yeah for those who haven't heard about our plan, this is the drama, right? You want to give a money when the money is actually useful, and money he is not that useful when you inherited in your sixties. So that's the one dilema.

The second ones you don't want runa, right? You don't wanna keep them from developing grid, from developing a career, from learning how to save money and invest in becoming financially literate, financially discipline and all that. And so the way we've decided to baLance this in our plan is, is what we call the chinese fund, right?

So we started saving ough for them A U T M A account, which is basically a taxable account as a custodial account in new tab becomes there is at age twenty one, and we got our first kid becoming twenty one and about six months. So this is not that far away. That is the main stay up, but is also a five twenty nine.

And it's a rough array though they aren't any money as teenagers, a little basically spend their money and put my money into the rough. I A it's actually the opposite, right? You're spending my money and putting their money in the roth ira, but that's the twenty is fund is a rah array in five twenty nine and U T M A.

And the idea is just a whole lot more useful to get money in twenties, and that is in your sixties so they can use that money for, you know, summer in europe, or a missionary work, or wedding, or a honeymoon, or a car down payment on a house, or a supplement and education, although I think are five, twenty nine, you going to cover that just fine. That's the idea behind the tiny fund. And then even if we killed over tomorrow, they don't get squat until they're forty, right? So they ve got to have a career.

You've got to for twenty years, you're got to go fend for yourself. Yes, you're getting this heads start. But for twenty years you ve got to fend for yourself before you're getting anything.

And even after that, they don't get IT all at forty. They get a third of IT at forty, a third of IT at fifty and a third of IT to sixty. And my theory behind that is just the three strikes rule, right? If you blow at three times that's on you.

But if you blow once we got you covered, you're going get some more money when you're fifty and um and so hopeless ly at forty when they get that money and they pay off more ages or you know become financially independence or whatever fifty they are, they can be done working if they want to be. And sixty mostly, they're just generate they're just investing that portion for the next generation. And um you know that's the way we kind of thought about our estate plan. And who knows, maybe we change IT down the road, but that's how we baLance these two things are given a money when the money he is actually useful along with not ruining them. So I think every dog probably has with children anyway has has that dilema they're struggling with yeah so I need .

to make sure my dad listen to this episode so that you know.

Great to and you are the establish in your career.

You've and you we can the thirty one. I no problem with that at all. So dad, if you're listening, James, really good with money. And you know we've .

proud to talk about some the technical aspects of a here to the questioner wanted to know how do the gift taxes work or remember what gift taxes, all right, gift taxes, just using up your state tax exemption.

So anytime you give more than the gift amount, which is eighteen thousand dollars a year in twenty twenty four and eighteen thousand dollars year, you can give each person in your life that you want in, your spouse can give nineteen thousand dollars too. So it's a married kid, you know, you can give me to eighteen thousand. Your spouse can give me eighteen thousand.

That's what seventy two thousand dollars a year you can give without finding a gift tax return. But if you give them more than that, you have to file a gift tax return. And what that does IT just track that money from your eventual estate tax exemption.

You don't actually have to pay any taxes. You just have to file the return. So no big deal to given gifts in that respect.

If it's less than seventy two, you don't have to do squad. If it's more than that, you just got to file a gift to a extra turn. As far as capital gains taxes work, you know you can actually give them your appreciated you know appreciated shares if you want.

And they can sell them and pay taxes in their capital gains bracket, which might be zero percent depending how much money they make. So they can is the way, you know, like giving to charity, that you can flush capital gains of your taxi ble account. And so that can be a smart way to to give to kids as well as, first the technical aspects go.

But I think that far more interesting question is, how much do you give to him? When do you give IT? What is the conditions under which is given? And I think every families is going to solve that a little bit differently.

Yeah I I agree with you. Um you know I don't get have kids, but I think for me, I probably do a blend of what you're doing and what my dad doing like I like the family vacations. You know my brother's and I are really busy and it's not just our immediate family.

Both of my brothers are married and so their spouses are my laws come to and I, so it's really nice. You know, I don't remember the last time I spent ten straight days with my brothers. Seto aside for me, you know, when we all live in the same house as kids.

And so IT was really nice to create those memories. You know, these trips in these vacations are thinks I I will never forget. And so I really do like at that aspect.

But you know, similar to how you are thinking, I think my brothers and I are also like, come on dead, come on dead like this. A little bit would be great. So I think a lot of both of those things would be great.

I love the five to nine nine accounts. I think a lot of positions are doing that sort of help with college costs or higher education ent costs for their kids. So I think that's good.

I thought about A U T, M A account, even for my nieces and nephews. Ws, I think for me, i'm a little nervous about the fact that they could spend IT on whatever they want. So jim, you have to report back to us. Do you regret IT or not?

Here's a beautiful thing about IT, right? This tiny's fund is tiny compared to what they should get at forty, right? So we get to see how they manage money. And that if they suck at money, guess what that say, plans probably change in 呢。 Maybe they're getting like a spend thrift trust instead of trust will have access to. And so I I love the idea of being able to watch him and this seems we live, of course uh which you know given some my hobbies is not necessarily a given but um you know to be able to watch how they managed that money. Relatively small amount of money in their I think tells us a lot about what they're gona do when they get a bigger summer money at forty and fifty and sixty and that's not the thing I really like about how we've set IT out.

Yeah, yeah. I like that. And I want to give a plug here because I think for a lot of physicians, especially those of us who work at academic institutions, often times one of our benefits at our job is like these law packages.

Dim, I don't know if you've heard of them, but it's like you pay like fifteen or twenty books are so a month and you get access to lawyers and you can utilize these lawyers to set up a trust fund for your kids or a living will or ever IT is. And so this often times is a really good, uh, solution. And so if you're someone who is listening to this and you're thinking, hey, I like jim's idea, then you might want to look at the benefits at your job and just see if that is available to you.

right? Speaking of a plug, uh, let's hear a little bit more about what you're doing lately with the with this company. You've started this wealth minded md company.

Yeah i'm so excited. IT is um a company that I started with my friend and fellow physician, dr. Or britain y.

halford. And our mission is really to help women in medicine. I only Better manage their money, but also to increase their income.

You know, I worked in finance before I went to medical school, and everybody thought I was crazy to leave a job in private equity, to go to medical school and take out six figures as student loans. They thought wasn't. And I don't regret my choice at all.

I love being a doctor. I love working in medicine. But i've always been looking for a way to sort of blend these two words together, you know, my love for finance, along with my love for medicine.

And one of the ways that i've been able to do that is to help doctors get Better with money, help doctors live a life of financial wellness, especially beale physicians. You know, we know that there is a gender wage gap. We know that women over the course of their careers makes substantially less than their mal counterparts. Obviously, there are a lot of factors at play there, but I really want to help rectify that.

And one of the ways that britain and I are working to do that is through our new group coaching program called boost boost, a little league program that helps women in medicine increase their income inside of their jobs and outside of their, so that make more money at your job part, helps women with negotiation strategies so that they can increase their compensation and get more control over their time. The second part, which is make more money outside of your job, helps women learn how to monetized a passion and start a profitable side. Hustle or also liberating some of those ten ninety nine tax.

And so we're really excited about this. If you're a woman in medicine who feels like, you know, you don't make as much as you should and maybe you don't feel as confident when you come to the negotiating table boosts for you, if you are someone who does make A A large amount of money, but you are looking for ways to sort of transition out of medicine and what to sort of transition into a new career or have a new side, has le and do this for you. And so we're really excited about this.

We've also got a free master class to help you get started. And you can go to wealth minded N D that com flash W, C I to access that. Again, its wealth minded indeed, that comes lash W C I.

You can get access to that free master class. You can also sign up for boost right there on the site. And you know, of course, we've got a discount for all our W C I community.

And if you use code W C I three hundred, you can get three hundred dollars of that coaching programme. And so that's one of the things that i'm really excited about. Of course, we've got our wealth minded in d podcasting. So just really excited for all the things that we can do to help the doctors, especially female posc ans, go out there with money.

awesome. Now I know some viewer are out for a runner walking the dog. You're driving to work as you listen to this, and it's really hard to remember your else.

We can make this as easy we can for you. Why code investor that com slash boost B O O S T will take you to the same place like convection that comes large boost. okay. Now you wanted to ask me a question while we were on here a little bit about, you know, kind of a complex retirement account situation, let's talk about that for a minute before we let you .

go yeah you know IT time you're like my go to source you know, it's so crazy because my dad is a tax professional, so I kind of think he gets a little jealous that sometimes I like go to you for a question miami detail, jim. And so I come to you to say you are like my resource on this. So I have a question about whether or not we really get analyzed if we contribute more than the twenty three thousand dollars retirement house.

Let me give you this scenario. So let's say you got a doctor who has two jobs, right? They, you know work at an academic institution for job. And then let's say they work, you know, some logos or whatever or not look, say they just work in private practice for job, right? So they've got access to a four or three b and a four one care or something like that.

Could they theoretically contribute twenty three thousand dollars three text to job I and then contribute another twenty three thousand as a rock contribution to job b? Obviously, we're only supposed to have only one employee contribution. But what happens if we contribute more? Do we get through in jail? You know, there are some crazy ball. Or does the government kind of just look the other way, you know? And so I I would love to hear James, you know, advice to me and how I can x mize having access to two retest.

All right. Well, there's actually a lot that goes into play on this particular question. The first thing to keep in mind is sometimes you win audit rule, right? You just don't get audit and you get away with something.

And this happens to a lot of dogs out. I think they're taken bogus deductions for their cars and home offices and all kinds of stuff. They just play an auditor relet, and they. I didn't get audited.

I doesn't make IT illegal, right? And there's a lot of things that you might get away with, and I think particularly around retirement accounts and and but he's look at all that closely less, be honest. And so I think a lot of people get away with that, and I suppose, but let's go over the rules.

So you know what the rules. The first rule to keep in mind is that no matter how many retirement accounts you have, you only get one in twenty twenty four if you're under fifty is a twenty three thousand dollar lar differ whether that tax defer or whether that is raw. You only get wonderful even if you're access for eight even if you have access to eight different retirement accounts of eight different unrelated employers, you only get one of those and it's twenty three thousand dollars.

You can split them between multiple people, but it's twenty three thousand dollars that the other rule to keep in minds that every unrelated employer has a different four fifteen sea limit. So you're under fifty and twenty twenty four. That's sixty nine thousand dollars, right? And that's the total of employee and employee contributions.

So if your max now your your employee deferral at your regular gig would provide what most dogs do and they get little bit of a match there then when they go over to their solo four one k for their ten ninety nine gig, they can only make employer contributions and that about twenty percent of your net profit from that job. And so that's what most people are doing. now.

If you get a customized plan and you can make after tax contributions to IT and do an implant conversion, this is known as the mega back door roth I R A process. You can get a lot in there without making necessarily that much money at the ten ninety nine gig. You know, if you made, if you only made eighty thousand dollars there, you could probably put sixty nine thousand dollars of after tax employee contributions and converted to a rah I ra.

That's one way you get a home. And to rah ira mine. There's not one of the rule. One little complexity there.

If your main gig account is a horrow three b and not a four one cake and this is very unfortunate, but it's just the way the law is if it's a four or three b and you have a solo four one k on the side, those two accounts actually share the same four fifteen c limit the same sixty nine thousand and lar limit, so you can put more than sixty one thousand dollars in if that's your work situation. Whether if there was a four one kay and a solo four one k you'd get two limits. That's really unfortunate.

But we had a blog post not longer on the blog of this fellow, this dog, to four jobs and a four three b at each. There was offering him matching dollars. He was trying to figure out how much money to put into each one to maxime the match. And he turned out he could not get all the matching dollars he was being offered without contributing more than twenty three thousand dollars. And IT turns out the way the rules actually written is you can contribute more than twenty three thousand dollars you just can't deduct.

And so he could put in like twenty eight thousand dollars, get all of us matching dollars and then theoretically pulled that money out if you wanted to, if we got to keep the matching dollars and nobody noticed, or just leave IT in there and recognize that he's not going to get the deduction for that money. And he was worth icy because he got so much money and matching money that IT made IT worth IT. And then the question came up, well, what about rough money? right? Because that's already post tax money anyway.

And the conclusions we basically came to was that nobody really knows is not really outlined there. If that's rose money, what happens exactly? Surely you're not going to get thrown in jail though, but the IOS may also you and say you got to pull this money back out of the account with its earnings and maybe pay a little bit of a interest or penalty or something on that money.

So when you get into these really complicated situations is not always entirely clear. And like I said, I don't think this is being watched very carefully, to be honest with you. So I think most people that make a mistake, they win out a rule.

I'm not gonna vise you to play out rolex, and I think a lot of people do win when they do to play. I think it's usually accidently quite on those of the main rules that are clear that everybody understands this is the way IT works. Don't expect your account necessarily understand that because you might be the only client using two, four, one case. But but those are the rules for how to use multiple for one case. Does that answer your question later?

I think that does what i'm hearing you say, asim, is that i'm not supposed to do IT, but I probably could get away with IT. But you know I I don't I don't like the idea of doing something that's illegal. So I will try that, you know make the correct contributions. I just was curious because we will ask me this all the time and I was like, no, like maybe you could also contribute and nothing happened. So i'se, i'll stick to fall in the rules gym that which you said i'll i'll if you're talking .

about you're talking about put in twenty three thousand dollars in your four three b and then good turn around put in twenty three thousand dollars as a rough employee contribution in your solo for one k yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's clearly not permitted. So you make your way with that for many years, but it's pretty clear you can do that by the rules.

No IT okay. You know I can. I work sometimes at the early care and um I wanted to be ten out that they wanted me to be employed IT was a battle that you know I lost and so I have I definitely an employee at two places and so I was like me, you know, that place gives me a match.

My my job gives me image. Is there some way that I can maximize this opportunity, if you will? And so very similar to this seems like the the blog posted to wrote with the fellow where we're trying to fear off the best to do this. And I think on the only physic in this position that has access to a lot of different or in case I have taken your advice, I set up a solo four and K, I do the mega back door roppongi. And so that's great, you know, let me not be greedy, I guess, and follow the rules.

You can you can always invest more intactable, right? You can always invest more impact, say you you don't have to break the rules just to be able to invest more money um but um it's true lots of dogs are getting one hundred thousand, two hundred thousand, even three hundred thousand dollars in retirement accounts here especially you ve got access to a cash baLance plan in your fifties or sixties uh it's amazing how much uh tax protected money you can contribute in a given year with the right set up.

So good question. Well, I think we're getting close to the end of our podcast. I want to do thank you so much for being so willing to come on and and be a friend of W. C. I, and help us have more voices on this point.

Guess i'll provide additional perspectives to White code mesters out there because there's plenty of people, authors that are orders and mayor Younger than mayor and different part of the county and mayor and different specially than me. And sometimes it's good just to hear from another dog even another professional is not a dog and um and learn from from a different perspective so thank you so much for being one. Come on docter.

Thanks for help me appreciate IT.

All right. As I mentioned at the top of the podcast, service is helping medical professionals like us bank borrowing and best to achieve financial wellness. But your resident and close to retirement supply offers medical professionals exclusive rates and services, help you get your money right, visit their dedicated pages, see all the sofa has to offer at White code investor dot com slashed sofa more time White code investor dot com flash sofi originated by sofi bank and animal as a nine sixty nine, one and five resources by by wealth policy, the brokers body is off by the security I number S I P C, nothing comes, risk loss, additional terms and conditions apply.

All right, thank you to all of you out there telling your friends about the podcast, especially if you hear something on IT is applicable to them. Just send a link to the podcast. Tell them how many minutes into the podcast that is this is a really powerful way of sharing something that can really help somebody else out there as you know um incorporating this information to your life has saved you much aggravation and hopefully you know thousands and thousands, even millions of dollars over the years.

You know how valuable that can be. Please share with your friends there's something that's useful to them. I don't forget we have a black friday sale, november twenty seven, three, december second, twenty percent of everything.

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Come, thanks for those of you leaving a survive start of view. Uh, a recent came in saying truly life changing. Have all this knowledge available to me as life changing in my life is financial and social will never be the same.

Now that I have this knowledge, IT will be a major player in my financial success. All this and fired myself and a few others to start a finance interest group. Medical school got published in academia, and i'm grant funded developing personal finance curriculum from my medical school.

Thank you so very much. Five stars. Well, rod, thank you for what you're doing, right? If we had somebody in every medical school out there, every residents out there giving lectures, developing a financial curricular.

I could quit doing this and just spend all my time climbing in canada and mountain biking and scheme, but i'll keep gone for a while because I do enjoy helping people. And we do not yet have somebody developing this sort of a curricular. And every residency, every medical school across the country, if you need help doing that, you're welcome to use some of my slides.

And i've developed i've a set developed for both attendance, residents and and students. You can find that under the W C, I plus portion of our menu, White code investor dot com just scrolled down to the financial educator word. We given a word out to the financial educator.

That's a dog every year. But all on that page that announced that financial educator, or that's where you can find those set slides and get you started. You modifies, you use, you like, you don't like, don't like.

Whatever I don't care is just to help you give a lecture, and you will be surprised. It's intimidate, I know, to get up in front dogs and talk to about their money. But the truth is, and you realize this, when you get to the end your presentation, people start asking questions.

The level of knowledge out there is a business more right? Most of the questions you're gonna are gonna so easy that you can't believe something even asking you that question. So please get out there, give these lectures to share your personal experiences. You don't have to know everything in order to help.

Somebody is just like in medical school residency, who gave you the best to, you know, the best advice is using the person who was the year head, you right? And M, S, three given advice to an M, S two about what rotations to take. Uh, uh, third resident given advice to a second year resident about what kind of jobs to take, you know, uh, is how IT works the only afternoon little bit more than somebody else to be helpful to them.

So thank you for those of you out. They're doing that work. Everybody else we'll see in next week keep your head up and shoulders back.

You've got this. We'll see you next time on the way. Investor protest.

the host of the White code investor are not licensed accountants, attorneys or financial advisors. This podcast is for your entertainment and information only. IT should not be considered professional or personalized financial vice. You should consult appropriate professional specific advice relating to your situation.