373: Recharge & Restore: Red Light, Methylene Blue & C60 Explained | Dr. Mike Belkowski
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Hello friends, welcome to the Ancient Health Podcast. I'm your host Dr. Chris Motley and today one of my close buddies, one of my closest friends is here with me on the Ancient Health Podcast. We've had him on here before talking about red light therapy. It is Dr. Mike Belkowski and he is the owner, the creator, the inventor of the BioLite Shop and basically he is to me a

one of the leading authorities on red light therapy and infrared. And whenever I have questions, I want you guys to know that if you ever want to know about red light, infrared technology and the, the science behind it, he is the guy you need to talk to. So doc, thank you so much for being with us here today. Dr. Motley, always great to, uh,

cross paths with you whenever we have conversations, whether it's recorded or not. It's always a pleasure and just throwing ideas, especially with your background, traditional Chinese medicine and just like the historical perspective. And then pairing that kind of like, I'm trying to slowly but surely combine like new age technology and innovation, interweaving that with that ancient wisdom, because I think there's a place for both. So whenever you and I get to clash, it's always a beautiful thing, I think.

I do too, my man, because I think when the way you've studied technology and like philosophy, when you start to learn more about like the infrared and the red light therapy, and you also have like how you look at your philosophy in life, you're starting to see like, maybe I can't say the magic, but it is like this huge thing that's happening with like light therapy and how it's just like,

it's covering all grounds of the human body. It's covering the structure and the chemistry, but also the emotional and almost spiritual aspects. So maybe we can go down that route, but I don't want to try to sound too esoteric, but I think that when I see your Red Light Report, the guys listen to the Red Light Report. He has such great podcast guests. There is so much

Information with the red light. So, okay, without me just blabbering away, my man. Today, I know anybody out there that is in the sports realm or in, you know, basically therapy or structural work has heard about red light therapy. They've heard about infrared therapy.

They've heard about different infrared or red light panels or devices. We're going to go over, guys, his products. We're going to talk about those because I use them. And I'm telling you, I can tell a definite difference. And we're going to tell you those differences. But most people out there may hear about red light or mitochondria or energy production products.

But could you go over really what red light therapy truly is? Because you're the scientist behind it. Far infrared, short or near infrared. Could you just give us like a basic backdrop so people out there understand? Yeah. So just from the jump street and you'll notice my fingers are a little blue. That's what happens when you mess around with methylene blue powder. Yes. We're going to talk about it. But yeah, as it pertains to red light therapy, so

From Jump Street, red light therapy is comprised of just two spectra of light, the red and the near infrared. Infrared itself is comprised of three, the near, the mid, and the far infrared. So the NIR, the MIR, and the FIR. When we're talking about infrared saunas, it's predominantly that far infrared. It's the longest wavelength infrared.

of the infrared, whereas red light is the longest visible light or wavelength. And then we have, if you do the Roy G. Biv, you have the red, the orange, the yellow, so on and so forth. Violet being the shortest wavelength of the visible spectrum. It's the most energetic. Red is the least energetic. But regardless, so when we're talking about red light therapy, again, it's the visible red and then the invisible near-infrared.

Infrared saunas, again, predominantly far infrared, some mid-infrared, some full-spectrum saunas. We'll tout that they have all three. I haven't really delved deep into that, but I'd love to see if there's any infrared sauna companies that have done third-party testing to verify what ratio is that full spectrum. Is it like 90% far, 5% far? Or what's the breakdown? I'll just be curious. Because, and I bring that up because when we're talking about

mitochondrial function as it pertains to red light therapy, also known as photobiomodulation in the research, uh,

You get the same benefits with red or near infrared, just at different depths in the body. And I think that's important. So we see all these red light therapy masks for faces. And that's usually the number one reason people get into red light therapy is for anti-aging skin treatment. A lot of females are into that. I think number two might be pain or mental health. But again, you see all these red light therapy masks. You see the red light in the saunas. And that's another topic I'll get to here in a moment. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

But it's red light because it treats the skin. Red light is a shorter wavelength. It doesn't penetrate as deeply. Whereas near infrared, again, being a longer wavelength than red, penetrates deeper. So when you're treating things deeper than the skin,

You must integrate near infrared. Now, I've had one of the most well-respected photobiomodulation researchers and experts on my podcast now three times. I just interviewed him a month or two ago for the third time, Dr. Praveen Arani. So every time I get him on the call, you know, once a year, it's always great to kind of review what's happening in the photobiomodulation research world. What is he learning? You know, what are kind of the nuances and whatnot? And

We're starting to see that there's some overflow principle, meaning whether it's just treating superficially with red or let's say you're just treating a spot treatment, like just your shoulder with red light, you're probably getting some benefits other places as well. It's not restricted or isolated just to that one area. Before that, I was thinking almost in isolation of if you're just treating your face with red light, then you're just treating the superficial aspect. But now we're starting to figure out or learn in the research that

You might be treating just your face or your skin with the red light, but you may be getting deeper benefits as well. Okay, so back to the sauna for a moment, just before I forget that. Because it's kind of a trend with infrared saunas to integrate these red lights or even panels being integrated into saunas. And again, what I learned from Dr. Praveen Arani, and this was last year, and I've been screaming this from the mountaintop ever since, is that you do not want to combine

red light therapy, and infrared sauna. You will really, the heat of the sauna will inhibit the benefits you would otherwise get from red light therapy. So separate them from one another. You're not going to cause any deleterious effects. You're just not going to be getting the benefits from red light therapy you think you're getting. So, and that's, again, that's, that's, that's because of the heat. So think of other ways you might be, um,

heating your tissue, so to speak, like you wouldn't want to do red light therapy out in the sun. That'd be, that'd be redundant first of all, but you don't want to be heating your body while doing red light therapy. That's, that's the, the, the, I guess the punchline. And so like the, the low hanging fruit is people. And I was doing this too. And I had people reaching out to me, like, how can I use my devices inside a sauna? Well, that's no longer an issue because you don't want to do it.

So, again, so that's kind of a mic drop maybe for your audience as well. Yeah, totally. But back to red light therapy. Again, red light and near infrared or red light therapy in general, you're getting a lot of these –

Amazing benefits as long as you're dosing properly. The colloquial benefits of red light therapy are reduced inflammation, improved circulation, improved cellular health, so on and so forth. And again, the red and the near infrared are giving you those exact same benefits, just at different depths in the body.

To me, it's like when you have the near infrared of the farm having the benefits of it. One of the things that I think many people out there probably wouldn't want to know is literally like for skin care. Now, it may be going down a different trail, but I think that a lot of people are very interested and really want to know about anti-aging because their longevity and the anti-aging movement in health care has really become something that you've been talking about for a very long time. I mean, you have been already talking about anti-aging for decades.

years and it's not nothing new to you. So why would infrared, how could it reverse aging or how can it work with aging in the body? Love that question. And this could be like a two hour answer, but let's, let's kind of give you, give you the punchlines here. I actually just got back at the time we're recording this. I just got back from Rome because I gave a presentation on what I have. It's a, it's a term I've coined called the mitochondrial triad and it's three different

modalities that I believe are the most efficient and efficacious and safe at improving mitochondrial function. And this is going to tie into your answer because when it comes to anti-aging, I think one of the most powerful ways is to improve your mitochondrial function. Mitochondrial function, colloquially known as the powerhouse of the cells. Well, I've recently learned and kind of taken a deep dive into mitochondrial

Maybe a more important aspect of mitochondrial health outside of ATP production, that token of energy. Do you know what that is, Chris, by chance? Like something else that the mitochondria produces that might be more important than ATP? Man, you're going to get me, brother. I got to know this. What is it, brother? Water.

Water. Yeah.

But that's the quote unquote water that's inside of us. So when we think about being hydrated and we're like, we're chugging these, you know, liters of water, that's liquid. Well, that's, that's a form of hydration. But what I learned is,

At a much deeper level this spring when I was in San Diego at Tracy Dew's Hydrate Summit. So I was invited to this event. It was kind of a smaller event, but like the top minds in water from around the world congregated in San Diego for this weekend for a summit that Tracy Dews was putting on. So you had Dr. Gerald Pollack there. You had researchers from Europe. You had researchers from Japan, Japan.

And as I was sitting there and listening, because I was presenting last at that summit, I was listening to all the ways that water impacts health. And in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, okay, how does this tie into mitochondria? And by the end of the weekend, I was giving my presentation on red light therapy, of course, but I was tying together, well, if hydration has this much impact on our health, and I was learning throughout the week, and it has an intense impact or a profound impact on our mitochondrial function. And

So that kind of set the stage for me to take this deep dive into water and its true impact on health. Because as you know, I'm a way into light. Um,

I founded BioLite back in 2019. And that's really what I was excited or passionate about for years, Chris. I mean, you and I have had many conversations about that. But my passion is not steering away from light, but it's more so this more macroscopic view on impact and mitochondrial function. Water is a massive one.

Light is a massive one, excuse me. But water is almost equally as important. And then the third, not to be forgotten, is magnetism. And that's a whole different story. And I've learned a lot more about that as well. Magnetism. So we have the three, the mitochondria. So we have a different type of water that's in our tissue or in our body that's being produced from this mitochondria rotation. And we're starting to see, like you say, like water studies with mitochondria with red light.

Now, one question is like, I guess it's two part. When you see this conglomerate of water, you know, like the studies on water, the studies of anti-aging, why is it being studied so closely? Like why, like when we have like us learning more about how these things interact, red light and mitochondria, is there a reason why, like when you go to these conferences, like I know we all want to stay young, but why is it being studied so closely now than it ever has been before though?

So, I mean, so ingrained now, like, I mean, literally now you're hearing so much more about anti-aging and red lights at the forefront of it. Because, I mean, I know people don't want to, you know, get older and look older and such. But is it because anybody found some like research and says, hey, we got to study this because this is where true health comes from, is from the mitochondria? That's a good question.

I think everyone has their own motivation. I think some people truly want to be immortal and live forever. And so that's the chase, so to speak. I know some people truly, whether they've seen their parents or colleagues or great grandparents or grandparents, excuse me, let alone great grandparents, they've seen how they've aged and it's kind of scary. It's like, I don't want to have this

this dementia when I'm in my 50s, 60s, 70s. I don't want to have all these aches and pains, you know, in my latter decades. I want to... When I die, I want to die healthy, so to speak. Like, I don't want to be dealing with all these... That's a good point. So I think there's... And that's termed healthspan. So people want to improve their healthspan. Maybe they don't even want to live longer. They just want to live healthier. So not the exact same motivation as far as an anti-aging, but when I think about anti-aging or longevity, it's...

Yeah, sure. You want to live longer, but ultimately it's, it's a living a healthier lifespan. So, so improved health span. The mitochondrial triad is not light water magnetism. That's, that's a different triad, if you will. My triad is different. We'll get to that. But, but back to the question before actually about anti-aging in the mitochondria, why the mitochondria? Okay. It produces energy. So from a bioenergetic perspective, Chris,

And then this comes from Dr. Doug Wallace, who's considered the top mitochondrial researcher in the world out of Philadelphia, I believe. But regardless, he's gone on as saying, based on his research and scouring other people's research and what he's learned, the more energy you can produce per cell, the healthier you're going to be.

Said another way, the less energy you're producing per cell, the more disease you're going to have. That's well, guess what? The mitochondria produce upwards of 95% of all of the energy in the body. And again, we're talking ATP, but also this water. So we're still talking about water. So it produces this water and this exclusion zone water essentially turns into this. It's an electron reservoir, right?

electrons are the name of the game, Chris, when it comes to health. The more electrons you can accrue and you can be running through the electron transport chain inside of your mitochondria and you need electrons to produce ATP in this biological water, the healthier you're going to be. So that's why whole foods

versus processed foods is extremely important because whole foods has probably been touched by the sun, has more electrons, less deuterium, and deuterium gunks up your mitochondria. So I know I'm kind of getting in the weeds here, but let's just step back from a macroscopic point of view. Anything you can do to improve your mitochondrial function will inherently improve your health, your wellness, your longevity. Right?

On the flip side, anything that stresses your mitochondria, anything that leads to mitochondrial dysfunction, and we can talk about what those items are, that's inherently going to do the opposite. That's going to accelerate your progression of diseases, cancer, and your inevitable demise. So...

macroscopically, I know we kind of get honed in on like nerd out on the physics or the, you know, the bioenergetics or what have you. And we're talking about electrons and protons and, you know, alkaline versus acidic environments. But just again, stepping back, why are we talking about red light therapy? Well, you know, what's up with methylene blue? What's up with carbon 60? Yes. Anything you can do to improve mitochondrial function will improve your health.

That is perfect, brother, because one of my mentors used to tell me a couple of my mentors, like I in my in the Chinese medicine world with like infection and stuff, you know, I can get caught up in always going after, you know, Lyme or parasites or yeast and and really just trying to find those things out. But they would tell me that if you could get the body cells energy up.

the body's innate intelligence will actually kick in and actually do what it needs to do. And you'll actually solve more by just increasing the cellular energy. And that's what I think I love when you talk about the electronic reservoir is

And when we talk about more cellular health, I think that thing that I've seen, which is most amazing is like with individuals that have like chronic strep or parasites, the more I've worked with using red light, literally red light on patients every day, like on their body and like, and actually giving them fuel to help with their electron transport system. I do see really incredible results. So

With the electron transport system, many people think like we need a reservoir and maybe I don't want to go off on a rabbit trail. But when you have that reservoir, brother, like is it because like you need to have enough electrons like around the cell to like keep pushing it right to keep creating energy? Is that what's happening in the cell? Because you have to have a lot of electrons to produce it like almost like gas for the cell.

100%. It is the gas for the mitochondria. So if you're depleted, so there's a couple of things here. If you're A, depleted or you just don't have enough electrons and you get that from food, you get that from grounding, you get that from quality water that can be vortexed water, that can be hydrogen rich water. Of course, full spectrum sunlight, we get electrons from the sun. That's where we should be accruing our electrons, so to speak. As importantly, because as you know,

You can do as many positive things as you want, but if there's still negative things bombarding you, you're kind of like taking two steps forward and one and a half steps back. So it's almost as important to get rid of the negative factors as it is adding positive ones, you know, more or less. So things that create mitochondrial dysfunction and mitochondrial dysfunction means that

reduced energy production, which inherently means reduced water production. So there goes your reservoir of electrons. If we get inside of the mitochondria, we have these electron transport chains and

So there's four respiratory proteins. Let's think of these as we're trying to cross a river and there's four stones. You have to hop from each stone to get across the river. That'll get you to the fifth chromophore, which is the ATPase, which spins and that ultimately produces or provides the ATP in water production. So what's

When your mitochondria is functional, it's condensed. So the stones are closer together. It's easier for those electrons to hop across the river that we're talking about here to produce ATP production. But anything that stresses the mitochondria, and this can be mental stress, like if you have a stressful job or life, um,

poor nutrition, you know, processed foods, not enough sunlight or this concept of malillumination where you're not getting enough sunlight. And then you double whammy that with getting too much of this non-native, you know, blue light that I'm sitting under here or like fluorescent lights in an office. Anything that stresses the mitochondria is going to stretch the respiratory proteins. So instead of having to hop across nice and easily, now there's a 10 footer

20 foot gap, you have to jump from each rock. When that happens, Chris, that leads to electron spillage because they can't make that jump. Now they're spilling in between these respiratory proteins. And that is where we get our free radicals. That is where we get our oxidative stress. So anytime you hear about inflammation, anytime you hear about oxidative stress, it's because your mitochondria is stressed. It's dysfunctional. It's stressed. It's stretched, I should say.

And so we have that electron spillage. So again, anything you can do to improve mitochondrial function will shrink the respiratory proteins. And then we're back to that normal sized river, if you will. And it's easier to jump across those rocks, produce that ATP, produce that biological water. So it's this cycle where positive begets positive, meaning...

a functional mitochondria is going to produce energy more efficiently. It's going to produce biological water more efficiently. You're going to be more hydrated without drinking water because your mitochondria function is normal. But when we get into that dysfunctional cycle, then, then we get into this vicious loop of negative where when we have free radicals and we have oxidative stress that further causes dysfunctional mitochondria. So now you're perpetuating this, uh,

uh, stressed and stretched mitochondria, which then further adds to the free radical oxidative stress load. So you can see where there's this massive fork in the road. Are you going to have functional mitochondria? Are you going to have dysfunctional mitochondria in either way? You're going to be perpetuating one or the other. So that's where things like doing grounding every day, sunlight, red light therapy, cryotherapy, uh, uh,

hyperbaric oxygen these practices either you do them or you don't and either you're improving mitochondrial function or you're not and and if you're perpetuating dysfunctional mitochondria and again this can be mental so this is where gratitude journaling meditation is massive it literally has an impact on your mitochondria you're either going to be ramping up your internal inflammation or oxidative stress or you're not and that's that's that's the crux of aging

That is a beautiful analogy. I really mean that, Doc. That's a great analogy. Like either you spread the stones apart or you get closer and you have that spillage and those electrons can go out and oxidize or cause damage to your tissue. And so when we're talking about like things that would cause stress, so some individuals say, yes, I have those stress. So like whether it's stress at work, school, family,

You mentioned this, though, because there's a big movement. And I want to know even more, too, when you just talked about carbon 60 or you're talking about methylene blue. Where does that fit into this whole arena of like electron transport or not? I just I would love to know what your thoughts are on it.

Sure. Yeah. So that's part of the mitochondrial triad, Chris. It's red light therapy, it's methylene blue, and it's carbon 60. And they all help with, I do this, this is my triangle, the triad.

They all help mitochondrial function in different ways. So they're not redundant. It would make sense to do something that's redundant. So you have red light therapy again, that's exciting. The fourth respiratory protein, the fourth chromophore where...

Maybe coincidentally or not, that's actually where water production is. It's the fourth chromophore. I would say, I know with the mitochondria, I think that let's go into methylene blue because I think like I really love this thing because I love watching your posts. You guys got to watch Dr. Mike. He's

He'll have blue teeth and it is amazing. And I'm like, it is the best thing. I, the first time I saw it, brother, just a side note. I was like, I was swiping. I was like, and you had, I was like, what, what happened to him? And I didn't know, I didn't know about the methylene blue. And then you started posting about it. And then I saw, I think Dr.

And then LaRonce, after that, started posting something about it. And it's like this, I don't like to say craze, but it's helping heal people. So I want to go down this route. It's a real deal, Chris. Yeah. It's a real deal. So I heard about it years and years ago on probably the Ben Greenfield podcast. But they prefaced the conversation by saying like, Methylene Blue, this is also an aquarium cleaner, which it is. And as soon as I heard that, it's like, oh, by the way, you want to put this in your body? Like my mind shut off. Like I listened to the episode, but I was like, no, I'm not going to do that.

But something happened a year, year and a half ago, Chris. I don't remember exactly what it was. Maybe it was on Amazon and I was like finding more books and here it is on methylene blue. But I think the spark for me or the epiphany was methylene blue and red light therapy are synergists. So when methylene blue was in your body,

uh, the, the peak, um, the peak spectrum or like the peak absorption spectrum of methylene blue was six 60 or six 65. So it's like dead in the middle of red light. So by having methylene blue in your body, you're going to accept more red light photons, which is going to lead to more energy. Just like we talked about more electrons for your electron transport chain, more energy, more magnetism, more electricity. Uh, but anyway, so methylene blue, do you want the history? Do you want to just jump, jump into the physiology? Yeah.

I like the history, man. I want to hear, like... I want to know, man. I need people out there. Like, I go for it. I like to hear these things. So it's kind of interesting. Methylene blue has been around since the late 1800s, which...

Most people wouldn't realize. It's been around a long time. It was first synthesized by a German physicist, I believe, Heinrich Carrow. And it was synthesized to be used as a synthetic dye, to dye textiles and to dye leathers.

So, and that's another like juxtaposition that we're in here, Chris's methylene blue, like, like you can't find it out in nature. Uh, we don't have a deficiency in methylene blue in our body. So, so it's, it's a very interesting, um, conundrum in our heads, especially if we're like into anti-aging longevity, typically that means you're anti, uh, synthetic substances, but, but let's carry on with the history first. So, so, so it's synthesized for a dye, uh,

10, 15 years later, it was used in microscopy. So you use a little bit of this dye so you can see stuff under your slides better. And there was this organelle or this bacteria that was like really absorbing this methylene blue. Well, that ended up being mitochondria.

Shortly after that, another doctor, this is where it had its first medical use. We're still in like the late 1800s, like 1895 or something. This doctor used methylene blue. I don't know how he decided to use methylene blue for this, but he treated malaria. So he was getting rid of malaria in like 48 hours in people. What? Which like, yeah, back then especially is pretty radical. Yeah.

Then we fast forward to early 1900s, the World War era. Methylene blue is getting used for psychiatric disorders, schizophrenia, things like that. And also psychiatrists were putting methylene blue in their prescription medicine, not for the methylene blue benefit, but because when you ingest methylene blue, whether it's a capsule or liquid, your urine is going to turn blue or greenish. So psychiatrists would put methylene blue in the prescription drugs.

to check their patient's urine to make sure they were taking their prescription meds. Does that make sense? So it wasn't for the health benefit. It was purely to see like, is your urine blue? Like, are you taking your meds? So anyway, fast forward to like the 1950s, 1960s. Now it's getting picked up more so for neurodegenerative issues. Now we're looking into Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, other forms of dementia, Huntington's disease.

Really, the last 20 years is where it's picked up some steam here as far as even anti-cancer and then mitochondrial function. It's still...

heavily, or heavily is not the right word, but it's still very unknown, Chris, like methylene blue and its potential role. It's extremely safe. So I said that it's a synthetic substance. It's extremely safe. And the dosages you need for mitochondrial health and function is extremely low relative to its safe and effective dosage range. But what it does in the mitochondria is

It's a massive, massive antioxidant. It's very electron rich. And that's what an antioxidant is. You're donating an electron to an oxidizer, to a free radical to neutralize it. And so a couple of things before I jump in to the electron transport chain. When you ingest methylene blue, it has this innate ability to go and help the cells that are most metabolically or mitochondrial dysfunctional.

So anywhere in your body where there's precancerous cells, let alone cancerous cells, the methylene blue will go there first. And then the vast majority of it will end up in your brain. So that's how we get all of these amazing benefits with anything from anxiety, stress, depression, psychiatric, any mood disorder, let alone these neurodegenerative Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, massive research behind this.

And as far as like the mitochondria absorbing this blue substance, well, it makes sense that it ends up in the brain because the brain is by far the most mitochondrial dense tissue in the body, which makes sense because it's the most energy intensive organ in our body. And again, mitochondria produce energy. So where the tissue or organ needs energy, there's going to be a lot of mitochondria there. So the heart, liver, skeletal muscle are also energy intensive tissues and organs.

So A, A, it goes and helps the cells that need the help the most. Most of it ends up in your brain regardless. So what is it doing? It's donating electrons in the electron transport chain wherever there's a blockage.

So just like we were talking about the river, when you have dysfunctional mitochondria, the stones, the space in between the stones can get stretched. Likewise, there can be blockages at any one of these stones. And if there's a blockage, that also leads to electron spillage, oxidative stress, free radicals, and also, of course, decreased energy and biological water production. So methylene blue can donate an electron to any one of these blockages and

and essentially unblock or resolve the issue at one of these blockages. So it's actually taking a mitochondria that has free radical and oxidative stress production and is getting rid of that because of its high, high antioxidant capacity. Now, as high as it is, Doc, okay, so you have this electron-rich. It innately goes...

How wild is that? How wild?

And on top of that, so this is another reason why it's like such an amazing antioxidant. So not only does it have like a profound antioxidant potential, but it's also what's known as a cyclic and regenerative antioxidant. So whereas things like vitamin C, vitamin E, also amazing antioxidants, but once they start donating their electrons...

they start degrading. Uh-huh. Methylene blue, so it's cyclic. It can donate its electron. It can accept. It can donate and it can accept. Wow. And it's regenerative, meaning it does not degrade nearly as quickly. Like it's a thousand times more able to donate electrons and accept and donate and accept without degrading. So that's what makes it such a profound antioxidant is like it's going to keep providing you benefits.

So when you have that, when you take the methylene blue, it goes in the brain, it goes into the tissue. You were saying that in that 600 nanometer range, you say like then when you do a red light, like it can absorb the red light better, like it gets into the mitochondria more. So you're more apt to have more energy into your cells when you take the methylene blue in that area. Exactly. So the blue, that dark blue pigment is most responsive to that 660, 665 nanometer. So you're going to absorb more of those red photons and more.

which are essentially electrons, right? So you're absorbing more electrons to thus utilizing the electron transport chain. More energy equals more electricity. More electricity equals more magnetism. Magnetism equals more growth and more health in anything. So like magnetism, the Earth, the magnetism in the Earth used to be like 300 gauss back when the dinosaurs were living. Current day, it's 0.5.

What? The reason why life was so large back then was because of the increased magnetism. A larger magnetism, like from the Earth perspective, a larger magnetism can provide more energy, which would allow it to provide energy and regenerative capabilities and healing capabilities and just living for much larger things. That's why...

and even like birds and even just like common day animals that have survived the dinosaur collapse. They were way bigger back then. It's because the magnetism of the earth was, was multitudes larger than it is today. And it's actually shrinking because we're going through this phase where we're going to have a polar shift. And whenever that happens, the magnetism of the earth decreases and,

And thus, whatever is living on the planet, the size of it is going to decrease. That's why humans have also decreased. Animals have decreased. Just the size of even plants have decreased over hundreds of thousands or millions of years. So it's kind of fascinating to think about it.

But anytime you have electricity, there's always magnetism running to it at a 90 degree angle. So when we have electrons running through the electron transport chain, that is essentially electricity. And so again, that's why mitochondrial function is important because that means you have more magnetism because you have more quote unquote electricity running through your body. So there's so many things that are tied into mitochondrial function.

And when you just hear that, like if you're just a passerby and you hear about someone promoting mitochondrial function, it doesn't mean much. But when you start to dig into the weeds a little bit and you see all of these connections, water production, magnetism, then you start to understand, well, shoot, this really could impact my health in a positive way. Or if you're healthy, it's the best preventive measure you can have. I mean, I

maybe we, I will go down the nerd route, but I think that it's really amazing when you just said like with the magnetism, because you and I have talked before about like magnet therapies and how it can create, you know, you have North and South pole and you're creating this, this, this force that's going around like a battery and you've got this energy that's going around. And in essence, what you're saying too is like the cells, like electricity is running through the cell wall. It's creating these small fields and it's like you say, it's attracting energy and it's like, it's healing at the same time. So what,

I mean, we can go so many ways I can go off, but I don't want to, because I'll start going to nerd talk. I'm going to get back to focus. Let's say you do methylene blue and people out there say, okay, I'll, I'll do methylene blue and red light. And you said carbon 60. Cause I want to know this triad. What is the carbon 60? Cause everybody else is carbon 60. Yeah. So carbon 60 is like the newest of all three. Um,

Not literally because C60, carbon 60 fullerenes are made and are plentiful in our galaxy. C60 is abundant in dying stars. Yeah. Yeah. So like it's out there. And I also, I just interviewed someone recently. His name is Chris Campbell and he has one of the few books on C60. And one of his theories is C60 is what brought life to earth because C60 is essentially this hollow, uh,

It looks like a soccer ball, but it's hollow.

And so that means it can carry things inside of it, like gases and whatnot. So like if there was all of these gases like hydrogen and helium and nitrogen out in outer space, and then like through asteroids or through meteorites where C60 was, you know, built up and then it crashes into earth. If that C60 was carrying those gases, perhaps it was the foundation for bringing life to earth. But, but back to like the actual C60 story. So like our bodies are mostly carbon, right? Like water, carbon, right?

So, C60, extremely safe. It's been around mostly for industrial purposes. So, it's been around since, gosh, when was it, quote unquote, discovered or invented? More or less the 1980s, right? And in the 1990s, I think it might have been discovered in 1985 or so. Nobel Prize was given in around 1995 or 1996. Yeah.

And again, mostly used for things like tires, photo cells, batteries, and industrial purposes. But there was a study in 2012, since C60 was starting to be used more readily because it's such a stable and such a strong molecule,

and it's able to produce more energy for like a lighter, a smaller molecule. It was being used more and more. So human beings were being exposed to C60 more and more because it's being utilized in these industrial worlds. So they wanted to do a toxicity study to make sure it wasn't harmful for these humans being exposed to this new molecule. So in 2012 in Paris, they did a study where they had rats and bees

They just ate their normal diet, lived in their normal environments. And these rats, I forget how long they typically live, but their counterparts, so the test subjects, so to speak, these rats were consuming C60 mixed in olive oil because C60 needs to be in some type of oil.

Well, as it turns out, the control group died. You know, they lived their normal life and they died. And when they died, their bodies were riddled with tumors, which is normal for these. They're called Wistar rats with a W. Wistar. The test subjects, so to speak, the ones taking the C60 and olive oil, they lived 90% longer. 9-0. And when they did pass away, they had no tumors on their body.

That was the result of the toxicity study. So as you can imagine, it was determined C60 is not toxic. And in fact, that's where the whole, I don't want to call it an epidemic. That's where the whole craze with C60 as an anti-aging molecule really took off. So maybe someone you want to get hooked up with, I can connect you to is his name is Chris Burris. And he is the co-founder of SES Research. And they're like the top manufacturer of C60 in the world.

Back in the 90s, they were doing industrial C60 for like everyone around the world. They're actually the ones that provided the C60 for that 2012 pair study. And up until 2012, they were doing purely industrial stuff. But once that study came out, they had biohackers and longevity enthusiasts calling them up constantly asking like, how do I take this? Like, how much can I, like, how am I supposed to take this?

how much, and so on and so forth. So around 2017, 2018, I think that's where you saw the first C60 supplements for human consumption come into play. Okay, so that's kind of like the history. What does it do? So similar to methylene blue, it is a profound, strong, like one of the top two antioxidants that I know of, you know, methylene blue being the other one.

But again, it's not redundant. It's doing something different. C60, again, similar to methylene blue, is small enough that it can get inside of the mitochondria. So both of these molecules are incredibly small. And this is for the better because it has a positive impact on the mitochondria. But what C60 does, whereas I see methylene blue more so helping the internal environment of the mitochondria, i.e. the electron transport chain being able to take care of those blockages,

C-60 is helping with the external environment. It's so young, there's not enough research. There's probably stuff going on internally. But what we know now is it is effectively acting as like a, this isn't politically correct. You know, Chris Burris would correct me. But I like to call C-60 kind of like an oxidative stress or a free radical mop.

But what does it actually do? And there's this thing called a, for C60, it's called the buffering oxidative stress system. So C60 isn't the one neutralizing the free radicals and directly reducing oxidative stress. What C60 does is when, I should back up a moment. So when there is two free radicals or there's too much oxidative stress,

our endogenous antioxidant system takes over and typically takes care of that. So melatonin and glutathione. Typically those two are wiping out the oxidative stress and free radicals. But when there's too much, which is very common in this day and age with all the different environmental stressors, there's excessive amounts and there's not enough melatonin or glutathione to take care of it. So what C60 does is it'll essentially handcuff these excessive

free radicals to itself. And then once the glutathione and melatonin are done taking care of what they're done taking care of, they'll come along, take those free radicals from the C60 and then dispose of them or what have you. So essentially C60 is acting as this middleman of cleaning up the environment, holding onto them until our endogenous system can take care of them.

So this is a huge deal, Chris, because again, our endogenous system is overloaded, overstressed, and it can only do so much. And if there's a fork in the road where we're perpetually increasing our mitochondrial dysfunction, we're going to be increasing this free radical load, increasing this oxidative stress. And again, oxidative stress alone...

that perpetuates mitochondrial dysfunction, which promotes more free radical production and oxidative stress. So if C60 can come along, clean up that environment, so to speak, reduce the amount of free radicals floating around, if you will, and thus reduce an oxidative stress

Then we're providing an environment for the mitochondria to then thrive in, to then shrink the electron transport chain, to then be more efficient at ATP and biological water production. So in a nutshell, that's how I see C60 working on the mitochondria.

And so you'd have like the, those three, like, I mean, will you take like when you have C60, which we'd mop it up and you'd have the methylene blue going in and try and fixing that internal environment. So do you, like, I know in your posts and reels that people could go to your site and learn how they could put it all together. Is C60 and like methylene blue something that you'd have to take every single day or is it like you'd have to dose it out? So I think that depends on what your goal is with either one.

Meaning like, are you trying to heal or like recover from something? Or are you just trying to like a preventive prophylactic measure where you're trying to improve your health span? What type of environment are you living in? Are you living in a metropolitan area or are you living in a rural area? Those are two very drastically different environments for your mitochondria. One metropolitan area is going to necessitate much more mitochondrial modalities, if you will, because you're in such a, uh,

horrendous environment for your mitochondria. If you're out in the rural, you're not surrounded by people. There's minimal other people with, uh,

devices that irradiate EMFs. So think about New York City and the density of that and how many devices are connected, which is like you're basically in a microwave if you're in a metropolitan area. Non-native EMFs, Chris, is essentially a microwave. So think about when you put a stake into the microwave, when you pull it out, it's going to be nice and dry from the microwave, the heat.

These devices like TVs, iPads, cell phones, of course, laptops, they're essentially microwaves where

proximity is power, the closer they are to your body, the more of a microwave effect they're going to have, the more dehydrated you're going to be, the more dehydrated you are, there goes your electron reservoir, you know, that water production from the mitochondria. So so non native EMFs is one of the number one stressors in this new world. So this is a long winded way of saying like, okay, with a C 60, with the methylene blue, you know, how are they supposed to take them?

A again, you know, what are you trying to treat? Is it like, are you trying to recover? Or is this just like, I want to feel good, have more energy and health span. Um, I'm of the mindset where hashtag YOLO, you only live once you only have one body. So like do as much good as you can for your mitochondria. Um,

Everyone has their own perspective on supplements. Some people are so fervent that you must cycle them. And I would be curious what your thoughts are, Chris. You always want to cycle on and off things. You don't want your body to become habituated to certain things. Yeah.

As it pertains to things like C60 and methylene blue, where do those fall? Again, I think that's a personal decision. I'm an advocate of taking them or utilizing them most days, especially C60. When I asked Chris Burris when he was on my podcast a couple months ago, since he is the C60 expert, I asked him, what is the upper limit? What is too much to take of C60? And his answer was as much olive oil or as much oil as your body can tolerate.

Meaning, because I mean, at some point, if you consume enough oil, it's going to act as a laxative. So he's essentially saying like, there's no upper limit. You can take as much C60 as you want and there's no negative side effects. You're just going to be adding more electron donors to your body and helping out your mitochondrial function. So take that for what you will. I'm not saying drink a whole bottle at once or anything, but...

Like both of these things, both methylene blue and C60 are extremely safe, extremely effective. For example, methylene blue, the traditional...

dosage is 10 to 15 milligrams twice a day. So if you're taking a liquid version, which is typically a 1% solution, that's 20 to 30 drops twice a day. The upper limit is like 500 milligrams twice a day. So again, you know, earlier in the conversation when I said the dosage that's required for optimal mitochondrial function is very low relatively speaking. That's what I mean. 10 to 15 milligrams twice a day.

So I guess like the triad, again, it depends on your environment. It depends on your health status. It depends on your objective with, you know, this potential mitochondrial triad. If you're doing all three, I mean, just think about it. If we're having the synergistic effect with all three, that probably means you need a little less of all three. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So like red light therapy, you could probably actually decrease your dosage with red light therapy with methylene blue. You could probably decrease your dosage with C60. You probably could decrease your dosage. So I think there's a lot of this is none of this is in the research as far as combining all three. This is just me learning, having a great reverence for mitochondrial function and thinking of like what are ways we can improve that boost it safely, boost it effectively. And so those are the three that I've that I found to be the top dog so far.

I think that when we're talking about like these, this triad, I think the one thing that it's very attractive, but also is because it's something that, you know, a person doesn't have to wait a long time to get the full benefit. You know, you could go right now and next day you could order these things and start taking them efficiently. Like with your website, I know you do have this on your post. Like you do show people how they, you know, mix them and they could utilize all of these in one, in one way.

When people say it's like up to their own discretion, I totally agree because I think pulsing is really good. So I don't know as much about methylene blue. I think it's so amazing, brother. I've seen your posts and about – I think I saw one individual. I think it was Ben Greenfield was talking about – he talked to me about that he got a prostate infusion of methylene blue to help reduce the inflammation. And it's like inflammation –

can really cause prostate issues. And he was saying that he actually says felt a very big benefit from it. So you're starting to see so many of advantageous effects of methylene blue and this, uh, and carbon 60 with the, with red light, where do you see, and maybe you already answered it, but I mean, where do you see like red light going? Like, I mean, is it going to be a huge mixture you think as the future progresses? I think the name of the game is to find ways to integrate light therapy with

Into daily habits where people don't have to set aside time to do it.

If you're motivated enough, it's not a friction point. But for a lot of people in this hectic world, setting aside 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 minutes is a big endeavor. And understandably so. You have a full-time job. You have kids. You have this, that, the other. Yeah. Time is precious. So I think being able to reduce that friction point, again, finding ways or taking...

or technologies to integrate light therapy into, you know, activities of daily living, you know, physical therapy term, where people don't have to set aside time. And so that's kind of a segue into the toothbrush. There's so many, so many benefits behind light therapy, both red light therapy and blue light therapy for oral health. What do most people do once or twice or more a day, Chris? Well, brush their teeth.

So that's really the motivation and kind of the thought process behind the toothbrush was like, it's a low-hanging fruit. You don't have to do anything different in your life. Just use this toothbrush instead of the one you're using. And you may and probably will ascertain the purported benefits of red light therapy and blue light therapy for your oral health. That's right. So again, what are other ways we could...

integrate light therapies into activities of daily living. You know, things like the car, you know, it sounds great, but again, you have to have your skin exposed where you want to see results. So car kind of quickly goes out the window because you'd have to like take your shirt. Some people wouldn't care, but a lot of people aren't going to like take their shirt off to go drive just to get some red light therapy on their back. Some people might, but

So that's where you have to think about, okay, where are people when they have the least amount of clothing on? And I think those are your answers for where red light therapy technology should head. Yeah. It's like when you have like the toothbrush, like I'm so thankful you sent me the toothbrush and I was talking to a producer and such about as we put stories together because they're so impressed with it. I've gone to the dentist and so I have like a little area brother on them up here on my stomach neurological tooth chart.

And I had stomach issues and the gum recedes a bit. And thankfully using like, I love your guardian. The guardian guys is amazing. Like I, I literally on my little minute, like my little membership, we talk about the guardian and using, and some of my patients, they use methylene blue in some forms, like with their toothpaste, they do and they'll put it on there and they had bone loss and they had almost cavities. Like they were like soft cavity and stuff. And they go back a few weeks later and it's gone. And I,

because they'll make a joke about, man, my gums are blue. So I'm like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't stay there. I'm just saying it doesn't matter to me. At least it heals the gums. So with the toothbrush, going back to my dentist, it's like, oh, you don't have anything. Their gums are actually starting to heal up and they're actually coming back down, which is, they're asking, what did you do? What did you do? And that's, to me, the benefits. One of the things I love about oral health is

I know you've seen this too, doc. Like I've had patients that have come in and said, I've had severe heart tachycardia and things, and then they go get like a normal procedure or something. And they'll say, Oh, the heart stuff went away right after I got that done. But to me, it's like very, very important. That's what I love about your daily living and your activities a day to living, but you incorporate it. But oral health is like very, very important.

Doing anything as much as you can, even if it's for a minute or two minutes a day. Do you put in like the methylene blue ever like in your gums or your teeth or something like that? Because I know people would want to get like the full effect or. I think that's a whole, uh,

I don't necessarily want to call it an industry, but I think that's a whole direction to go with methylene blue is like the oral health space. So if you're taking a liquid version of methylene blue, and I say liquid because that's the most popular type of methylene blue product. But a couple of months ago, we released encapsulated versions of our bio blue products. So people that don't want to deal with the, the stained teeth and gums and tongue and countertops and what have you like,

We have capsule versions now, but as it pertains to the conversation at hand with brushing your teeth with methylene blue in your mouth, if you take a liquid version, and I do this, we have a version called the BioBlue Calm, which removes the NMN, which is an NAD precursor, because while it's not a stimulant, I think some people get stimulated by it.

So this is a form of methylene blue I think is perfect to take before bed. So we remove the NMN and then we add passionflower, ashwagandha, kava, and a fourth one which is escaping me. And then magnesium L3 innate, magnesium glycinate. So all of these things in one form or another help reduce cortisol, help you tap into your parasympathetic, increase your GABA activity in your brain.

Hence, it lives up to its name, calming. And I have found that to be amazing to take before bed because it helps me organically or naturally reduce my stress and fall asleep. And it doesn't give you the grogginess of some other sleep modalities, if you will. So if you're taking something like that before bed or just another methylene blue product, then you're going to have it in your mouth and in your gums. So then if you were to use something like this Illume toothbrush, you're going to be activating more...

We're capturing more of those red photons with a methylene blue in your gums and your teeth. So inherently, there's going to be more bang for your buck. That toothbrush, so it has red and blue light. Blue light because it's very antibacterial. So blue light kills harmful bacteria, allows your beneficial bacteria to thrive, i.e. your mitochondria, its bacteria. So you actually...

literally increased your oral microbiome with red light therapy and with blue light. And that's been borne out in the research.

You were talking about cavities. Well, if you take an acidic environment and introduce electrons, electrons are going to increase the pH. So you're going to take it out of an acidic environment into a more alkaline or at least a neutral environment. So that's how you can mitigate, prevent, or even reverse cavities, enamel erosion, things like that. When we talk about oral microbiome, if you improve your oral microbiome,

That's going to reduce bad breath because bad breath comes from too much, quote unquote, bad bacteria in your mouth. So there's a lot of positive things that come from using light therapy in your mouth to your point, regenerate tissue, improve circulation, improve mitochondrial function, all those things that come along with red light therapy. Now you can get those in your mouth.

Yeah, brother. I mean, I'm very impressed. And I know, Doc, that people out there, when they look at your website and look at the information. And on a side note, whenever I look over here, my little prompter here went a little bit off. I mean, so I had to look over here. So if you guys see me go, I have to look back. Now we're seeing that with the information you give, I want everybody out there to know that

Truly, anytime I wonder about red light, and this is like, I always look at Dr. Mike's stuff. I always check his stuff out because it's really, he'll go through the science behind it and the research behind it. I think to me, it's so vast with what red light and say methylene blue and even like how it's affecting oral health. I've even wondered too, what...

And eventually, and I know you probably already thought about this, Dr., and I'm not saying I'm trying to give any ideas. I'm saying like even ear therapy, like having lights in the ears because there's so much ear infection and intracranial problems with deep sinus issues. And like, for instance –

I used one of your red light sources on a patient who had from my indications and from blood work, such a bad amount of, um, Babesia, um, parasites and such indicators right here and the back of the head and the cranium. And they would always tell me, they'd say, Hey, there's something there. And it's, I'm so congested. I can't, you know, it's making me hard to breathe at night with the sinuses. And, um,

But using like the red light on that, I, I, you know, I've done some muscle tests and I do, I do some things like that with acupuncture and I put the red light on there and it

It must be that that red light is just so strong and powerful. And so it's right in that head. And I mean, those things would drain so well. And I would just, I'm just saying, I'm not saying it healed it. I'm just saying the individual is starting to get super amounts of relief. And I mean, I'm saying it helps with oral health. It'll help with like regeneration. I'm just seeing it like, in my opinion, it's like helping clean up infections. So I'm just, there's the vast effects are just amazing what it can do.

Hey, wherever there's mitochondria and you can get light there, you're going to have positive effects. And that also reminds me, Chris, I know we're getting short on time here. When we're talking about infections or viruses, methylene blue is probably the top antiviral out there. Shortly after COVID started in early 2020, there was already research coming out on how methylene blue basically eradicates the virus. And it's still like long COVID or stuff like that. So

Even if you don't want to take methylene blue as like a healthspan supplement, if you will, I think it behooves people to have it in their cabinet for when you first feel those signs of sickness. Then you start taking them. I've done this countless times now, Chris, where as soon as I feel those initial, initial symptoms of getting sick, then I start super dosing the methylene blue. So whereas I would take 20 or 10 to 15 milligrams twice a day,

For normal dosage, I'll ramp that up to like 50 milligrams five times a day. And I'll do that for several days, but it'll...

disallow that virus or that sickness from ever coming to fruition. So it just knocks it down. Or if I'm a little too slow to and I do get sick, it shrinks the window from you can kind of tell when the virus or a cold should last like, you know, five, six, seven days. But if you do, and I've done this multiple times now where when I super dose with the methylene blue, like I'm back to 100% within 48 hours.

So either it completely just like doesn't allow it to come to fruition or it just significantly reduces the time. And being sick for two days versus seven days is, you know, it's a, I don't know how else to say it. It's a game changer, right? Like who wants to be sick for a full week versus, you know, a couple of days. So just like from a productivity or like a mood boosting, like either you're sick and then you're kind of depressed because you're sick and you're not able to do things you love.

It gets you out of that quicker. So just from that standpoint, it's pretty powerful. I mean, Doc, this has been so good. I mean, we've got to have as a regular everybody because like these are like the benefits, like things that are like that are like on like cutting edge stuff. Like that's what I love about this. And we talk, Doc, and I want everybody out there to check out

your feet and learn more about like the triad and and learn more about red light therapy because to me it's one of the most powerful agents to help with inflammation and with reducing a lot of like infectious type symptoms.

So, Doc, I mean, I hate that we have to wrap up because it's been so good. But I mean, that's why we always have good convos. I mean, everybody out there, we really have really good convos. And I'm just I'm just so thankful to call Dr. Mike, my friend. And Doc, where can we find you? And then just let us know, like, what is coming up next for you?

So on social media, just type in my name. Not too many people have my last name, Mike Belkowski. And you're giving me credit for social media posts. I've been slacking on that. And like, I have a high motivation to be much, much better. I have so much information in my head, Chris, that I need to just have the time and energy to put out into the real world. Because, you know, like you, one of my main passions is education. You know, BioLite is a byproduct of my passion. And quite frankly, I'm not a big fan of it.

If I didn't have to do the business, life would be better. If I could just like educate and, and, and,

disseminate this information on, on a macro level, that would make me happy. So my goal going forward, especially 2025 going forward is like to put out much more consistent in this type of information. Like what, why does hydration matter? Why does mitochondrial function matter? What are ways to improve it? Whether it's paying for a supplement or doing it naturally, like grounding, getting out sunshine. Other people I want to give shout out to are Carrie Bennett and

Sarah Kleiner. If you want to learn about mitochondrial function and the ways to improve your health, go find those two on Instagram. They're amazing people. So again, find me with my name, Mike Balkowski, predominantly on Instagram and LinkedIn. BioLite, the company, is basically BioLite.shop on all social medias. And that's the website as well, BioLite.shop. As far as things coming down the pike, Chris...

I think I kind of just told you, you know, I want to get more education out there, provide, you know, give people the information that they either need or want to learn so that they can take health back into their own hands. Because I think there's a lot of positive things being perpetuated, but there's also a lot of misinformation being perpetuated on social media or wherever, whether that's like from a nutritional or other modalities, right?

And I'm not saying I know everything, but I think a lot of it is superficial. Whereas like the stuff we're talking about today, just mitochondrial function, that's root cause, root level. And so the more that people can understand that and the true impact, and again, it doesn't have to be red light therapy. It doesn't have to be methylene blue. It doesn't have to be 60. You don't have to pay for stuff. There's ways to do this naturally. But if you just understand why mitochondria, then I think that

Once you learn it, you can't unlearn it. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. So I think that's kind of my goal for 2025 is just to continue to disseminate this information. So people, because as a whole, as a society, if we can improve our health, you know, the sky's the limit. We're in a pretty interesting time right now where, especially the US, we're just getting sicker and sicker, yet more and more funds are being dumped into medical healthcare. So it's pretty backwards. So I think as a society, if we can get healthier, a lot of good things can come from that.

Oh, brother, this has been good. We're going to do some more talks and everybody out there study the mitochondrial health. Check out Dr. Mark Bulkowski's feeds and see what you think. And remember, it's raising energy. If you can create energy, you can heal and you got to increase cells vitality. And you also have to take out all the little hindrances, too. I hope that you found this podcast really interesting. I did.

And remember, guys, like and subscribe if you like this channel. I hit the little bell so that you're reminded any time an episode comes out and check out Dr. Mike. I mean, I love his his podcast. It's a red light report. He's really, really smart individuals on there. He's smart. So, I mean, guys, Dr. Dr. Motley's on there. So, yeah, I should tell you something. Well, one more thing, Chris, one more thing. Like we're saying energy, we're saying electricity, we're saying voltage when we're talking about like mitochondria or just health as a whole.

That's also known as qi. So like we're all saying the same thing, like different times in history. It's just the research that's coming out with mitochondria now is like unveiling in one way or another, like what the Chinese or like traditional medicine knew thousands of years ago. They're calling it qi. They're calling it prana, what have you.

But now we're discovering maybe it's all coming down to the mitochondria. You know what I mean? So it's kind of interesting. I love it. To tie it all together. I love this. This is the kind of information. So we got to do something about that the next time. Like the prawn, the chi, the mitochondria. Because that's the next one. So the producer, Christy, remember, let's talk about it. All right, guys. Thank you so much, Doc. And we really appreciate it. So from everybody here at the Ancient Health Podcast, thank you guys so much. And have a blessed day. See you later.

Before we wrap up, please remember that the information shared in this podcast is for educational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice. No doctor patient relationship is formed through this podcast and the use of information here or materials linked from this podcast is at your own risk. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. All

Thank you for joining us today on the Ancient Health Podcast.

We hope you've gained valuable insights into the harmony between Eastern and Western medicine. If you've enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe, share, and leave us a review. Remember, true health is about balance, mind, body, and spirit. So stay tuned for more episodes where we continue to explore how ancient wisdom and modern science can work together to help you thrive. Here's to your health, balance, and well-being. I'm Dr. Chris Motley, and I look forward to our next episode together.