Talk Your Book: Infrastructure Investing
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Today's animal spirits is brought to you by science investment. Got a sign investment. Start come learn more about the science groer infrastructure fund we're talking about today, that science investment stm.

Welcomes to animal spirits a show about markets, life and investing join Michael bada and ben carson as they talk about what they're reading, writing and watching. All opinions expressed by Michael and ben are solely their own opinion and do not reflect the opinion of red host wealth management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for any investment decisions. Clients of bridge holds wealth management may maintain positions in the security is discussed in this podcast.

Welcome to animal spirits with mi ban. One of the themes of the year for advisers anyway are the rise of private investments. A little way .

doesn't IT IT does.

And you have all these companies who have spent their careers focus on institut til investors, emissions accomplished, great success institution. Al investors have called IT thirty percent of the portfolios. Investment in private assets and retail investors have effectively a called zero.

And so the shift has focused or the shift has turned, the focus has shifted. That's what i'm looking for. Two individual investors, and on today is show, were joined by a company, science investments, that has been, they were early to this. They they started with a focus on individual investors, I supposed to institutional clients.

And one of the my big push back skins alt, when I worked in instruction space, was Operational, their infancy ent. I was like helping with the Operations of these. And I I said there's no way advisors can run the funds like this where it's a private equity fund and you have capital calls and put me in occasionally way to cover some for all these different clients.

You have in a lot, a lot of these places figure out like, you're right, that won't work. So they've created these interval funds that make life easier for the advisers, easier put IT in the liquidity paramus are known ahead of time. And so I feel like the alternative space has decided to like open arms for the financial advisers.

On the today show we talk to mark GTA, whose Marks the co founder and O C E O of science investment, and then john wave. And john is the CEO, uh, G C M groer no westerner see that I got IT. Um then they part of up to put on an infrastructure fund and it's on science platform.

Growers is the manager and they they run IT and it's you have to be adviser to get your clients into this fund. But it's another iron, the quiver, I guess, for all four advisers. And this is we talk about IT today and on the show um is an asset class that not a lot of retailer advisers are in. And it's got I would consider a pieces of fix income and pieces of equity in a way what infrastructure yes.

to meet the the most interesting thing and start for stepping on the material. But I ask a question about evaluations and is there too much money chasing too few deals, which seems to be a theme in the broader private space. But with infrastructure, his answer is no.

It's sort of the opposite. There's such a giant tic nee for capital that there were actually under investing in infrastructure. And you know, IT, I buy that. I do buy that argument.

Place on the road. D I drive every day .

I buy to yeah so I, uh, here is our conversation with mark from song and john from gcm grown. John, mark, welcome to the show.

These guys is pleasure. Be here. everything.

Yeah.

you got IT. So we're doing infrastructure today before we get to IT, uh, the topic at hand, tell us about the partnership between sign and growth or how did this come about and what do you guys look to solve our investors OK?

Well, i'll take that one because this type of partnership is something that uh, we created many, many years ago. Sign investments is and alternative investment solutions provider for individual sters. We've been around a warm time.

The company um started back in the nineties, if you will, uh under a different brand, under different management. And my partner I Michael zona, we acquire the company in two thousand and eight and we've been focusing on individual investors and stay one. There's a lot of attention on this ah this marketplace today because there's a lot of big names that have entered into the space.

But we are one of the few firms that have been around since that time. And we're certainly one of the few firms that are independent in the sense that we're not part of a big public company or we're not part of A A larger asset management group that historically a service intuitional investors. So we had tremendous success in the early days, if you will, when we launched our b dc sign investment court.

And that initially started as a partnership very similar to some of the other partnerships that had been launched at that time. But that was structured around sub b advisor. And and we found that, that, that type of structure really wasn't conducive for the type of business that we wanted to do.

We didn't feel that I was investor friendly and really align the interests of the two partners. So we created a joint venture with arris management back in two thousand sixteen, and that was to launch our first interval fund sign as diverse about credit. And what we did was really we took best, best in class in two categories. One was investment management, where we had a firm like areas who was best in class. What they did in our firm side investments where we considered ourselves the leader in manufacturing, managing, most importantly, distributing alternative investments.

And what we decided to do very early on was to be an open architecture firm, meaning that we wanted to go out and partner with the best managers and their respective we felt that the the industry is evolving, whether large institutional managers were coming into the space and they were pushing product and they continue to push product. And quite Frankly, firms are not good at everything. So the big firms that we no very, very well um they are on the front page of the wall shy journal every day.

They're not necessarily good at everything. They are they're good. They're greater certain things good at other things that maybe not so good at some things.

We felt that we could go out, identify the best players in specific strategies and partner uh, very investment expertise with our understanding of the individual investor and our ability to to manufacture these products and ultimately them to financial advisors. So the joint venture was born out of that. And today, science investment is an open architectural firm where we are delivering on that Mandate to give access to individual investors.

Will we believe are the best available managers in a specific asic. classy. And that's what kind of brought us to, to growth her. We consider them one of the best, if not the best, in terms of infrastructure. And I think they really understood and appreciate what we do in terms of delivering these types of alternative investments to the climate.

And what's really different about this is it's not a relationship where uh where a third party uh distribution firm or uh they are a sub adviser to a product. We are technically married at the hip and a we both have skin in the game in this product. So we jointly only the advisor were jointly fiduciaries to our investors.

And I think that's important when you consider a lot of the other players in the marketplace that really hope we're born on and built on to continue to grow as large institutional asset managers. The retail vision individual is in top of mind all the time. Well, when he comes to sign on in the partnerships that, that we are we develop, we can say without a doubt that the investor or is the most important thing on our mind.

And I think that's what really enable us to be successful in in a marked place that is now crowded a with with big brand names that have a lot of resources. And and we we don't have those types of of resources that they do, but what we do have is an allegiance to our investors or and to focus on our investor. And and that's what these joint ventures, partnerships do uh for, for us and ultimately the clients that we serve.

And we are we are really excited about the partnership with growing there because they have a firm that have have been around a long time. They're great at what they do. They have a particular expertise and infrastructure. And we think their experience in that asset class in their track record over the years, coupled with our ability to offer these types of products and explain these types of products and educate the financial advisors in their investors on these hides of products, is really going to make a winning combination that will ultimately help investors diversify their portfolio and do so in a thoughtful and allow them to access alternatives in a way that they have before.

I want to talk more about the platform in a minute, but I came from the institutional world where there were instructions investments done, you know in the diamond foundation world. Um and I know that these kind of funds are pretty big in the australia for retAiling investors, but I think it's still relatively untried to territory for a lot of investors in the us. So john maybe could just talk through infrastructure and asset class explain explain how that works and explain me how IT has parts of like fixing command equity and IT in just how the asset class works for the people who don't understand IT 是。

But i'm happy you brought that up because it's actually interesting when you think about the history of infrastructure. Infrastructure assets are as old as the world. We've always had, uh, essential services.

We've had roads. We've had other most of transportation. We have had social services infrastructure asset, but infrastructure asset manage is actually relatively immature in the context of all the different alternative strategies.

Whether you think something like private equity being four or five six decades old, I would say the uh infrastructure as classes more one, two decades old. And so for our experience, doing IT for two decades were actually very experienced in the infrastructure space. And one of the most exciting parts about the infrastructures as is the growth opportunity.

And the growth opportunity is a function of massive need for infrastructure capital from all sources, public capital, private capital. But the other part of IT is what you are just illusion to ban, which is the characteristics of infrastructure as an asset class. The idea that you have long term cash loves, the idea that you have high degrees of confidence around those cash lows, the idea that you have yelled component, the idea that you have inflation protection, the idea that you have dampened volatility. These are the types of things that any investor, whether you're an institutional investor or an individual investor, covets, uh, very much in terms of, uh, having a key a part of their portfolio. So we're super excited about, uh, where infrastructure is going in terms of the need for that type of capital generally, but also where it's going as an asset management asset class and the continued maturation of the uh and how is going to play out in portfolios largely driven by some of those really interesting characteristics that, that you point out then .

I was also set into a black rox most recent earning call. And Larry think sets up to the tune like there is a need to be seventy five trillion dollars with the infrastructure spending out to I forget the year was but where's this money coming from um and what is infrastructure? I mean, I just sounds so vague like all these roads are these what do we do? These airports? What are we talking about here?

Ah it's a good question. Um so first of all, the the need for capital, whether at seventy five trillion or something, half of that or something, double IT IT doesn't matter. It's a lot of trillions and it's a lot of money that's needed.

And I think that depending how big that number is, is whether you want to include the capital that's needed to transition the energy sector to, uh, uh, cleaner, more renewable, able forms of energy. And the numbers are just massive. The answer to where it's coming from, it's it's coming from everywhere and IT needs to come from over.

And that's how big the promise he needs to come from private capital IT needs to come from government sources. He needs to come from kind of uni finance type markets or similar markets and other country's project finance markets, uh, public private partnerships. The capital need is so big that everyone is going be part of, uh, that participation.

I think your question on what is infrastructures and interesting one because I think it's an involve in definition. The reality is, is when infrastructure first started out, people thought exactly a Michael about the two. The couple things usually said they thought about roads, they thought about airports.

Those are definitely parts of infrastructure, but I think it's a much bigger world. So start with characteristics. The characteristics are these are tangible assets. These are essential services. You are time about transparently and highly certain cash lows.

You're talking about assets that have hyborian ers entry, and you're also often talking about assets that people interact with in their daily life, maybe not directly, but kind of maybe done indirectly. So you could just have roads and airports and things like that, but you could also have pipelines that transfer energy. You can have data centers, which has become uh, a part of infrastructure.

Maybe sometimes it's real state, but data centers is a huge part. You could have ports. You could have uh, court houses and other social services like education, depending on who your counterparty is of its government. So there are so many different types of of infrastructure. But when you think about the parts that are important is what ban was a look into its to for IT to be uh considered infrastructure and our minds and for IT to be considered infrastructures and asset class from an investment management perspective, from an institutional individual investor location perspective, IT needs to have these characteristics around cash flow, inflation protection, uh, high degrees of confidence, londres ation things of that nature.

So when investors are coming into these structures, whether it's and we can talk about the different investment vehicles, actually the first you guys on that, how do so one of the chAllenges and mark, you hit them on the head that you live IT to a lot of larger players coming to your turf and your turf being the end investor. Now wealth management is like the hot thing with private investments.

It's difficult for advisors to evaluate these potential investments up behind their clients because guess what? What are experts and infrastructure? So when we're hearing the story, everything you're saying on the surface, john, makes a lot of sense.

Oh yeah, roads cool. Got IT. But like what questions should advisers ask? How do we actually that your product versus of competitors? What are some the questions we should be asking for? What are some like just what are we looking at here?

What are we talking about? Yes, it's a great question. And IT IT pervious, not only infrastructure, but it's the whole asic class of alternatives today. There's a lot of education that needs to be provided to advisers and their clients in order to truly understand what they're getting into. And I think too often, people paint these products with the same brush or they carved them under a particular rapper structure.

Whether it's an interview funder, bd c or read without really understanding with the underlying uh, investment strategy is or uh how they're doing the investment stature, who the manager is. So there's a lot of things to be dillion gent. And that's why access these types of products really starts with partnering with a firm that dedicated high quality can provide the service that you need as a financial visor to Better understand that.

And that's where we come in. I think that's again why our partnerships really flourishes because you have an institutional asset that knows the ins and outs of their strategy and they're really good at what they do, but they're not a custom to speaking to individual investors and financial advisors right there accustomed to working with large institutions. And that relationship is much different than the relationship that we have with our visors and their client.

So it's something that really start to education, and we we really pride ourselves on providing that education in a thoughtful, understandable, digestible way. And then it's about really guiding financial advisers are what they should be looking for. Part of the process is for us to tell them what they should be looking for cus.

We are very proud about we uh, what we have and what we're to present to them. But IT really is a function of first, first performers understanding these vehicles are investing in A B dc, are investing in interval fund. Is IT a close and fun? Is that a read? What are the liquidity features? What are the minimums?

Well, let's start their mark. What are some of the difference far? Audience, between between those three structure? I think most people have preferred with the you said a clothes have found and found that A, B, D, C. What are the some of the differences that .

investors need to know about? So if they read should prob and and that's that's what we are distributing and manufacturing a at sign. Those are the types of product that are raising a lot of capital today.

And if you look at the various vehicles, there's a lot of similarities to that, right? In terms of A B dc and interval phone, where a lot of credit managers and and other asset classes are utilizing those vehicles to get to market, there are similar in a lot of ways, right? There are transparent in the sense that they are registered to the public filings that you can you can read.

Typically, they're gona have low minimums, which is so thing that really is, is enabled alternatives to flourish in the marketplace because history stories, ally, there were very high minimums for individuals to get in to alternative investments that is virtually impossible. So the low minimums have have changed the changed the game. Additionally, these products offered some sort of liquidity, i'd like to say in in many respects is its appropriate liquidity for the individual vestan this strategy.

So A B D, C and in nigeria fun many of the rats today, they offer quarterly liquidity. Typically most products offer approximate five percent of the net acid value of any fund uh for purchase or we purchase by the by the fund d itself to investors on a quarterly basis. And and that is what I I call appropriate liquidity because we're trying to match the investment strategy with the capital that we're raising.

So a far too often, we've heard about a mismatch of capital where, uh, investors were putting money to work in long term investments or long term securities. But the capital they raise was was daily liquid or or much more frequent sense. That makes no sense and and there's been a lot of problems with that.

So uh, what we do with these types of problems, we're trying to match that capital up with the type of investment we do. And as investors were able to think more log term, knowing that there is some limitation on the type of liquidity that's available on the fund. But at the same time, IT allows a investor to investment alternatives access the the a premium yal that's provided the diversification that they provide but still have access to their capital.

And and and we see that as a as a great characteristic of these products and typically, at least for our franchise, you know, we have not seen the tender process result in a oversubscription. So our investors have had the ability uh, to access their capital if they needed. And and and if it's a situation where there's more demand for capital than in the limitations provide, we feel in certain way that's a good thing, right? Because we don't want investors to make rh decisions and pull their capital out when when there could be a recovery on the horizon.

And that's what we ve seen in the past for liquid products, investors panic and they take their capital out in and then there's a uh, there's a recovery. So he really is the the sequence source, if you will, to these types of products. IT allows, again, as I said before, IT allows us to think long term, investigate capital long term, but they have a pathway to exit.

If you love back fifteen years ago, twenty years ago in in this business, the alternatives that were provided to individuals had very little to no liquidity, and they were locked up for many, many years. If you look at a traditional all for institutional investors, there is a seven to ten year hole. So the liquidity features are really enabled us to mainstreaming you, if you will, these types of investments. John.

one of the most important jobs as offense visors setting expections for clients. So for those one where maybe just through some of the different expectations for risk and reward and what can change the the returns on an infrastructure asset or investment will positively.

negatively a great question band. And I I actually think where you started is is worth us emphasizing that something uh we yet uh in our partnership sign and growing and believe in really strongly, which is education, education education and transparency and transparency and transparency.

We want to make sure, just when mark lish is talking about, people understand the nature of the investments that they're uh investing and they understand in detail the structures that they're using to make those investments in. There is no expectations mismatch. That doesn't mean that things don't happen down the road where we all need to pip IT or there are bumps in the road where you wish you had done something different.

But IT wasn't because um of an expectations mismatched. So we're huge, huge believer s in IT is something that we've driven uh in a real serious way in the institutional investor world for five decades and and something that we hope through our partnership with with sign around the infrastructure, the class we can help drive in the individual investor market as well. I think what specifically when IT comes to infrastructure where people should expect and what we hope to deliver is something that is consistent with the a historical experience we have had doing this in, in a really global diversified way for the past twenty years.

Which is mid single digit type of cash fields, double digit type of total returns, minimal volatility, inflation kind of hedging or inflation, uh, uh, correlation to the extent that there's inflation protection through the assets themselves, downside protection because of the essential nature of these assets and h, that's what we've been able to deliver far our investors historically, and that will we hope to be able to continue deliver for investors going forward. That doesn't mean that you won't have, uh, bombs in the road along the way. But we we do expect, uh, the nature of infrastructure assets and the nature of infrastructure asset management done well um should be a very uh kind of comfortable and consistent uh, experience for investors.

What what does a poor outcome look like? And I guess what are the I know it's not liquid, so it's not up to apples, but what what does volatility look like or what is a bad year look like and what would cause a bad outcome? This is the type of thing where we're building a pipeline at a bus that IT needs more money and so you're yield， this is going to be lower or I don't know, I don't want want make up scary as you tell me, what does bad look like?

The first thing I would say is that the nature of the infrastructure assets that we invest in are generally of a Operating variety. And what I mean by that is you're not doing a lot of new build Green field engineering risk, construction risk things of that nature.

So it's not to say bad things can happen, but the example you gave around building something and is not working or blowing up less likely to happen through the nature of the infrastructure assets that we're looking at, which are generally assets that are already developed and already in Operation. I think that what bad uh can can happen uh depends on the nature of infrastructure, but I usually is something related um to the kind of demand side of IT. So for example, um sometimes when you are a infrastructure owner of a road asset, uh IT might be that your payments from whoever your counterparty is, let's say, a government are simply based on having the road available.

And as long as the road is available, you get you get payments. There are other types of infrastructure investments where IT might be usage based. So there's an element of availability, but then you're happier as an infrastructure owner if more cars go on your road.

Generally speaking, you underwrite these assets such that you are comfortable uh, with kind of low usage assumptions, but you be happier with higher you suggestions as well. And those type that an example of something that can lead to differentiated outcomes. The one thing I would tell you is if you're doing infrastructure right, you wouldn't, for example, build a brand new road that no one has any idea if anyone's gonna and make a usage based that's venture capital, that's uh, risk.

That's not a true infrastructure investment even though there's a rode in the word of that investment. So I think the devil is in the details and there can be some variability. Uh but you tend to uh underwrite these uh investments with uh pretty conservative assumptions and .

do have specific uh allocations are looking. Hit on certain test structure is IT just kind of um what becomes available and and what the different yields .

are is a question. So mark made this point and I and I cannot emphasize that enough diversification is really, really important, a diversification, a geographically diversification, uh, just by cheer number of assets, uh, diversification based on different types of drivers, meaning travel or or transportation infrastructure verses energy resistance structure.

Ta, and so yes, there's both a bottoms up in the top down component, the bottom uh, ban is making sure that each individual the each individual and right meet those standards in the top down portfolio construction is making sure that you have diversified exposure. So you would not want a fun to be all transportation or all energy related or all data center related, all my chain logistics related. And so when we think about constructing an search portfolio, we look at what we call the different kind of subacid classes or we look at what you could call kind of the different food groups of infrastructure and make sure that each of those are represented in a portfolio.

Where do these deals come from? Like is this is this all government funded projects and then they go looking for capital or IT? Sounds like that sounds like that sound because that sounds like these are like finish project s is not adventure.

But when how do you sources investments? Where they come up from how do you quote like win uh is that a bidding process? Take us under the hood.

it's all different is the answer. Um and one of the uh aspects of the infrastructure market that I find interesting as and it's changing today. But if you look at U.

S. Infrastructure investing, IT is dominated by energy related infrastructure. In the reason for that is there has not been a lot of uh, privatization of government assets. There has there is a very well functioning unicode bond market.

And so a lot of the assets that are winding up in private capital funds and private capital forms are energy related because those of the assets that are treatable, whether if you look outside the U. S, if you look in europe or if you look in australia, you get almost the inverse of that energy related infrastructure is just a piece of the pie, and you get tones of other types of infrastructure. And I think that's a function of history.

It's a functional a little bit about how government works. It's a function of the different municipal type of financing markets. But I think in the U.

S, because of the massive needs for infrastructure, capital, all types, you'll see that change over time in terms of how we source the assets. I think a huge, huge part of IT is our experience in the space. I I really believe that. I think it's the fact that we've been doing IT for twenty years.

I think it's that we have a big global a team that is experienced that have a number of different relationships, relationships with investment banks, relationships with other infrastructure investors, relationships with uh um government entities or public private partnerships with that realm, relationships with corporate that sometimes want to do some of their infrastructure investing, uh, that they need for their business off baLanced. They can kind of preserve uh, h capital and IT comes from all those different sources. I think one of the keys to our infrastructure approach, our infrastructure mouse p is being super open, uh, to implementing our infrastructure investments in different ways.

Sometimes we take control of the asset, sometimes were a minority investment, sometimes somebody else might be controlling governance day to day, and we're participating the asset. Sometimes we buy the asset from someone that already owned in what's called the secondary transaction. And if we could simply be focused on the risk return outcomes and the portfolio construction outcomes for our clients and not worry so much about, Frankly, the ego that sometimes comes in this industry with with my ideal or I I only do control deos or I only do deos that look like this, we think that puts us in the best position to source the most divisive portfolio of infrastructure assets that can deliver value to our clients.

And mark, are these how are these purchase to people cut on your platform and retail investors and find, but they have to go .

through a financial adviser. How does that work? yes. So currently, they have to go through financial adviser. And and we think that a good thing because there is some complexity to these types of products that need to be voted by a professional. And and when we know we support that, that the process currently, the interesting thing about a certain of these products, particularly the interview find, is that there is an ease of use to to purchase these products unlike other alternatives, whether is traditional or or even A, A, B, D, C or read, where you have to fill out paperwork and you have to get signatures and things of that nature. But the edible fun is uh is something that is very efficient to buy and sell, where you can, you can purchase via ticker symbol, just like a stock. So that's something that's also helping the the demand for for these types of products that financial advisors easily buy and sell these products。 And that something that is also promoting the annual fund as a as the probably the number one structure in alternatives and something that that we we use um we use widely on our platform.

If you would look at my inbox or probably the inbox of any financial advisor in the united states, we're getting a lot of emails, lot of emails of private private asset management companies like yourselves. And so I would have to imagine that because there's so much money coming in, just like in public markets, valuations are up. I would imagine that returns on a golf power basis, half to be lower just based on the Price that you're paying for assets that you would have paid A A lower valuation probably five, ten, twenty years ago. What are you guys seeing in terms of competition and potential yields and investor expectations going into these things?

Yeah, you know we just met today. So at the risk of disagreeing with so when I just met, I think there's a few things. So one lets start from the infrastructures standpoint.

First, we just spent time talking about know Larry thinks at seventy five trillion and I said, I don't know, but it's a lot of money. There is more capital needed than there is for infrastructure assets for the foreseeable future. And I don't I really, truly don't see that changing, uh, for for a long time to come.

There are so many projects out there. There is so much need. I mean, you can just look at little things alone, like data centres. Everyone thought that data centres were needed um in huge scale because of cloud computing. And then everyone woke up one day a year ago and realized o there's A A I and whatever number they thought was needed as now multiple of that in order to have all those data centers, whatever amount, energy production, electricity production, you thought you needed to service, that is not multiples of that.

And there are every one of those things has not on effects there is that all the infrastructure around IT will you need more energy? You need more ways to transport IT, you need different sources of IT, you need a different geography. So I think the reality from a return perspective, uh, in infrastructure in particular uh, is not at this point in any way affected by the uh growth of the infrastructure as management or the growth of capital going to infrastructure.

And I don't think that will be for a really long time. And in fact, I think for firms like us, uh, that have been doing this for a really long time, capitals actually asset, the more capital you have, I actually think the more you can actually drive return N N. We've actually seen that we've seen our infrastructure practice go from two lion dollars ten years ago to fifteen billion dollars today. And and I think that we've seen actually our capabilities said in our opportunity, uh, as a result of that growth.

So no, I was just say quickly.

there's a second piece of this, which is what you are losing two in terms of your inbox today, my inx is only politically, so I wish I was your inx. But with the election coming up, but you know today the the idea that there is more product and there is more communication, uh, going out to individual investors, uh for for them to increase alternative exposure and their portfolios is still coming from such a low base.

The typical mature institution in the world might have thirty thirty five, forty, forty five percent of the airports filling and alternatives. And the goal is to try to deliver that same experience to the individual investor division vester today. Is that two? Is that three? Maybe if their super sophistic ted at ten. So there's a lot more room to grow in terms of those individuals getting to a place where they have a proper, mature, diversified a alternative investment.

Yeah why why should only the institution, al and investors be able to uniform the S. P hundred? I could I could. Um so john IT sounds like you come from the side of serving the institution, al investor, and mark, you serve the retail investor. So a talk to us about just the blending of those two different skill sets but .

they that's the beauty of the partnership right is that that we understand the individual investor extremely well and john, his team, understand how to invest for institutions, and we're bringing that expertise to the individuals. There is no reason why individual investors shouldn't have the ability and the same access that institutions do to certain asset classes for their portfolio.

When you say, say sorry to do, but this is important. When you say, say, I want to make sure that the institutional advisors are getting the good stuff and the individuals .

are getting the chromes. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. That's that's that's the most important aspect of of this business in this relationship. And and one of the one of the reasons why I mention that feature of our relationship before, where you have a firm like hours that is A A partner with the venture, we have skin in the game.

We are fiduciary to our investors and we buy virtual of this joint venture, create a fiduciary responsibility for, uh, the manager to the investors. And and we one hundred percent are focus on laser, focus on that because IT IT could happen, right? People can say, oh, no, you get the same deals.

But ultimately, I could happen. But we're very cautious of that. One of the most important aspects of the partnership when we start negotiate.

Yeah, Michael, even more specific on that, I think it's really important what there one mark said in the vast, vast, vast majority of the deals that we're gonna do together and our partnership that will may be delivered individual investors, our long standing large blue chip institutional investors that have been kinds of us for years or decades um in in asset management and infrastructure in particular, will be investing in the exact same deals.

So won't that is uh that was huge important to market and his team um and IT was huge important to us that we would not A A delivering experience, a that was different from the experience were used to delivering. And the reality is, is today, when you look at our R R eighty billion doors of management, ninety five percent of IT is institutionals, five percent of IT is is in individual investors. But it's been about ten percent of our capital flows more recently. So the individual investors growing as a peace, but we don't have nearly the expertise in the knowledge and the experience around register product distribution that mark and his team have. And so being able to a kind of one post one is something greater than two, which bring what we're really great a at to the table, hopefully, uh, as a result that delivers something that super powerful and something that delivers value to the individual.

And I love I love that idea because these are very different, different muscles and different investor groups. So uh, just as we come to a to a close here that's very professional podcast, you went there. How should investors think about the changing and interest rates and the potential change and not potential the changing who ever going to be in the White house? Does that impact how you think about investing or how investors should .

think about the world? Yeah, look, I think when you're an investor, you obviously have to be uh very cognizant and aware of of of capital markets factors like interest rates, which I think is obviously the most powerful capital mark factor out there. They have to be be aware of near term events, geopolitical events, political events like the upcoming election and have to think about those matters.

The reality, however, is for long term investors, for long term thinkers and there is no Better uh example of being a long term investor than the infrastructure set class where these where your your whole periods are quite long, the duration of the cash lose is quite long. You're really a long term thinker that's thinking beyond that kind of stuff. The need the tAilings that we talked about, the need for infrastructure capital, the elements of infrastructure investments themselves in terms of field generation, inflation protection, long term total return, mini mobile to do those are factors that are persistent throughout market cycles.

And Frankly, our persistent regardless of who sits in the White house. And so what we're excited, you have to be aware of those things. But what we're excited about our individual investors is delivering a long term experience, uh, that will outlast any of those kind of short term more secco factors. And I think the secular trends uh, behind the uh excitement uh or behind the positive aspects of infrastructure investment far away. Anything that happening .

on a second basis financial.

So you could go to our website at science investments that com as your best source to to find out what we're doing with with growers and some of the other products that we offer very much.

guys.

Thank you guys.

Thank you.

Okay, thanks again to market, john. We appreciate. Remember, check on sign and investments that can more sign as C, O, N, email us. Anal spirits at the compound news, I conca next time.