What's REALLY Behind The Trump Vs. Musk Reconciliation Fight?
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Yeah, no, I'm not gonna sit here in a microphone and, you know, talk about how great thing and whistle past the graveyard because that's not reality. It's like there are people that are giving you a line of it when the reality is you're using a CBO score. These lefty artists talking about how you actually need to just you have to pay the 2016 rate. Otherwise, whatever.

Well, you exploded the deficit. You're responsible. On me, the government, the people who elect us, they couldn't spend responsibly, so it's your fault. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And

And that means more risk for your credit and your identity. Tell Republicans in Congress, stop Dick Durbin's takeover of your credit card before it's too late. Ladies and gentlemen, your attention, please. Keep the faith, hold the line, and own the lips. It's time for our main...

Welcome back to the Ruthless Variety Program. Good Thursday to you all. Controversy in Washington, D.C. A lot of discussion about the big, beautiful bill and what it means to the United States Senate and whether it becomes law. Big players have weighed in. We're going to discuss all of that. I'm Josh Holmes, along with Comfortably Smug and Michael Duncan. John Ashbrook in the vomitorium today.

uh, turns out, uh, he's come down with a little bit of an illness, one that he ascribes, uh, to Michael. He does not. You do. Well, I think he may, he may, he may. I mean, I've,

You're a little bit of a typhoid Mary here on the Variety program. I don't think that's fair. I just prefer to show up to work to deliver the show that the viewers and the listeners depend on us for. That much I can't actually argue with because...

Your last Typhoid Mary experience with this variety program, Smug, you were there. Yeah, so that's the thing. He shows up to work, like, you know, this is a good thing. Whether he's ready to give everyone bubonic plague or not.

You know, like, I always feel like if you're sick, stay home, right? No. And then I get attacked for it. No. Look, dude, the reason why this show has been successful is because the listeners and the viewers can reliably depend on the fact that every Tuesday and Thursday we show up for them. And so that's what I do. Whether I have to kill one of my co-hosts with a disease or not. Okay. All right. Well, look, all I'm saying is if I don't have a bullet wound...

in my vitals, I'm coming into work. Well, you've proven that. We went to Las Vegas probably about two years ago. We did a big thing out in Las Vegas where we were kind of opening speakers for a whole lineup, including Trump and everybody else. And we were just setting the table. And we noticed that Michael wasn't looking well. He was like shallow breathing. Yeah.

Like, 100%. He should have been in the ICU. Pale and sweaty is what I remember. Like, he was ready to rage. He was like, I'm not going home. We're going to go gamble. We're going to the casino. Yeah, no, it's a compliment to his work ethic. He did, however, take half the cast and crew with him. Yeah, I mean, he made everyone sick. Everyone got terribly ill. Yeah, terribly. In my defense, I did not find out until I returned to D.C. that I, in fact—

had RSV the entire time. Yeah. I got on an airplane and traveled across the country. I sung, I danced, I entertained. You did all those things. With RSV. He's like, I couldn't have known. Everyone around me was shocked that I was alive while I was infecting them. And this morning, John Ashbrook is appreciative of his efforts because he is...

Get off soon, Ashbrook. Only because he is like on a breathing tube. Ashbrook's in bad shape, man. He's in bad shape. I'm praying for you, John. I'm going to go ahead and say sometimes Ashbrook doesn't have the courage. Oh, wow. That is a direct attack. It's a direct blast. May I paint a picture for you? Sure. He has three children. Holmes. Ashbrook's got three kids, man. I know. He's got them this sick. I can't wait to see where this goes. I'm going to give you an example. Okay.

We played golf last weekend. Yes. Me and you and Ashbrook. Yeah.

Playing great golf. Good weather. Yeah, perfect weather. Had some fucking bangers on nine. Lovely day. Close to the pin. We both blew the birdie putts, obviously. Yeah, that's what we did. But we get around to the turn, and the grill's fired up. Yep. Which is a wonderful service. Oh, I see where you're going with this. A service is provided. The grill is hot. Yeah. They got options. What's your special, sir? And you're a little hungry. Yeah, what's your special, sir? And you know what the special was that day? They had a wonderful brat. They did. And not only was it a brat...

The brat was marinated. It was then split. It was put upon the grill and then covered with peppers and onions. It was like you were at the ballpark. It was incredible. I ordered one. Yeah, I did too. Holmes, you ordered one. Ashbrook, I'll take a hot dog. He didn't have the courage to go to Flavortown.

He didn't want to do it. Which is why he finds himself in such dire straits. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. You got to have the courage to go to Flavortown. It's an interesting theory. One I could seize the merits in. Well, anyway, we're going to do a show either way, and it's a banger, as Smug says, because we've got a bunch of things. There's this big discussion. You saw Elon's take on the big, beautiful bill, the tax thing. We're going to talk...

in some detail. Recall, I mean, I think part of the reason why you listen to this program, we've done this. We've done it. We've lived it. We know exactly what it is that they're doing. We're not pontificating about shit that we don't understand. We've done it. We literally have lived this. And so we're going to explain to you under the hood what it is that's happening now because so much of this has been

Misconstrued? Yeah, and detextualized. And it seems it's either intentional or so ignorant that it's hard to actually argue with. You know what I mean? There are some things, and we always say this about just professions in life, and you all do all kinds of different things. There's really only two professions in all of the world.

that people think they can do better than the practitioners who have spent literally their entire lives trying to perfect. It is professional sports, and it is politics.

This coach doesn't know what he's doing. Exactly. Right. Why would you run a trap? You got to run a sweep. You got to. I mean, like you spent not you maybe coached a high school football game or so. And the guy who spent 30 years studying the defensive schemes of a West Coast, you know, I mean, like, yeah, like all of a sudden, you know, better than the guy. And like, I'm a fan because I do it.

I do that. We all do it. I do that. No shade on anybody because it's a natural thing. It's an observation. Politics is the other one because you're like, well, they talk. I talk.

They have opinions. I have opinions. I watch the games. Yeah. So it's kind of in the same category. There's only two categories. Like nobody would run up to an accountant and be like, I can do your taxes better than they can. You know what I mean? Actually, I think Smug might try to do that. He might, yes. But he's a special category. I might be better than them. I might have more.

There's a chance. There's a touch of autist in that guy, though, because he might be right about it. He does know the numbers. He does know the numbers. Anyway, we're going to break all that down. We have two guests, not one but two.

And in very different categories. Joni Ernst is with us, United States Senator. She's going to talk to us about how the Senate is receiving the big, beautiful bill that will be considered in the next few weeks. Recall that there is a deadline, official or unofficial, that people have set by the 4th of July. That might be ambitious. She's going to give context to all of that and talk a little bit about how she's been summarily attacked for making jokes.

You make jokes in this line of work, particularly when you're in cycle and all of a sudden nobody has any humor about anything, which I find completely – it's the most inauthentic thing in the world. If she's like not in cycle, if her election is 2028 instead of 2026 –

anything that she has said over the last week, nobody would have ever recognized or known or reported or whatever. But the fact that she is all of a sudden, we will pretend to be outraged. Yeah. We're going to be pretend to be very outraged about all of that. Anyway, she comes in and talk to us all about that. And then we've got a great guest. Listen, Taylor Gooch. And many of you who listen to us, as we know, are, are sports fans.

Taylor Gooch, when you think about Taylor, you're like, oh, I know that name. How do I know that? So he's a live golfer. He was on the PGA Tour for a number of years. He was not one of like the John Rahms or Phil Mickelsons or people who had won multiple majors, Kapka and everybody else that went to live. He was like just entering the peak of his career. And subsequently, he goes on to live and wins the whole damn thing in 2023. Wow.

an inordinate amount of money, but also was the best case that Liv had to make to the golf fan world to say, like, we really ought to reunify this because you're not playing the best talent. And PGA would come back and be like, ah, these guys all were great in, like, 2015.

Phil Mickelson or Captain, I mean, listen, DeChambeau is putting all that to rest. But that was the case. Like yesterday's news, they're a sideshow. Gooch was different. Gooch was somebody who never, he won one.

tournament as a pga tour pro and then entered this prime of his career as a live pro where he was dominating the competition still is he had top 10 last year he's still playing he's in town in northern virginia playing a live tour event today and uh so he stopped by the program he's played some golf with trump likes him he's gonna give us a bunch of different stuff that like uh

I mean, I love hanging out with the guy. I love hanging out with the guy. And I also loved his answer on, you know, who do you like to play golf with when it's not serious? Yeah. And he gives some great color. I won't spoil it. You want to stick around for that. 100%. We got a lightning round. We'll recover a whole bunch of other things that you're going to show up in the news later on today after everybody cribs the Ruthless Variety program for content. As they do. Which is the way that's the way the news media works. We're the tip of the spear.

But we're going to make them listen to the whole thing in order to get it so they can prepackage after 40 minutes. Yeah. Anyway, big, beautiful bill. So it starts with Elon. Of course, an ally above all allies to President Trump during the 2024 campaign. Not only spent a lot of money, but was like... He risked a lot, personally. I mean, he was just the ultimate...

How do you say it? Like somebody who just like set their own personal situation aside, knowing you were going to take the heat. Hmm.

Our lives, our fortunes, our sacred honors. Yeah. You know, I mean, like, seriously, think about it. That's a great way to put it. This guy had a lot to lose. And we shouldn't, you know, just brush that aside. You can't minimize it. You can't minimize this. This guy had, you know, multiple companies and he had a lot of people shooting at him and he did the most difficult thing possible. Yeah, he decided to be partisan. And there's a reason why the whole Michael Jordan quote about Republicans buy sneakers, too, applies to the corporate world.

in that anybody with any skin to gain, like in a publicly traded company, avoids partisan politics because they don't want to basically alienate a customer base. He decided, I'm walking away from all that. This is what I believe I'm all in. And he threw caution to the wind and a whole bunch of stuff, took up Doge, did all these things. I still maintain that buying Twitter...

And converting it to X was amongst the most patriotic things that I've ever seen anyone do. And I mean that sincerely. I really do believe that. So I've got a lot of reverence for Elon. We disagree with him on some stuff, though. And what happened towards the end of his tenure as a special employee at the White House is

was that he was gone and then all of a sudden he's got a problem with the signature Trump bill, which is the big beautiful bill. It's the cornerstone of the economic agenda. Everybody's trying to make all these discussions about

tariffs about deals with other countries. Like those are all parts of it. But the signature, the cornerstone of the American economic future is Congress's ability to get President Trump's vision the year articulated in 2024 through Congress with very narrow majorities into law to make tax cuts permanent, all these things. Well,

Elon, now that he's out, has got a different opinion. So graphic one, if we can toss that up. He says, I'm sorry, I just can't stand it anymore. This massive, outrageous, pork-filled congressional spending bill is a disgusting abomination. Shame on those who voted for it. You know you did wrong. You know it. Okay. I'm going to set aside commentary on that, but that was the opening salvo. Let's go to graphic two.

interest payments already consume 25% of all government revenue. If the massive deficit spending continues, there will only be money for interest payments and nothing else. No social security, no medical, no defense, nothing. Which, can I stop you there? Because what I find interesting about it is, if you listen to the show, you watch this show,

We've been talking about this for a very long time. We talked about it during the campaign. We talked about it during the campaign. We talked about you could shut down the entire government. You could shut it all down, right? And keep funding Medicaid and Social Security and all the entitlement programs. And you couldn't balance the budget for 30 years.

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You could take every penny the Congress votes on, every penny, every road, every bridge, every education component, every health care component, all of these things. You could shut it down. Zero. Right to zero. Tomorrow.

And assuming economic growth that we all assume from the American economy over the last 30 years, you still wouldn't balance the budget until 2036, which is what we were sort of critical about at the beginning when there was a whole bunch of false promises. Right.

We were also critical, frankly, like the first ad out of the gate in the primary from the Trump administration was, you know, like we're going to enhance. We're never going to touch those. We're going to enhance social. Good politics. Good politics. Right. Good politics. But you can't simultaneously be a budget hawk.

and not look at Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, and interest on our national debt as off-limits. You can't do it.

Those are mutually exclusive things because they're now 72% of our budget. It's table stakes for saying you're serious about tackling the national debt. But the Trump administration knew what they were doing with all of this. It wasn't like a hide-the-ball thing. Not at all. They were like, we're going to start with Doge and they're going to find waste, fraud, and abuse.

which we're hopeful can produce billions, if not hundreds of billions of dollars of savings. That much he got.

And like the thing is with Elon, I think he's the most successful industrialist in our age in large part because this is a guy who thinks outside of the box. He approaches problems differently than anybody else because he thinks outside of the box. But then his professional career, he's always brought in the smartest people of all time to help effectuate his vision. You don't land rockets on the pad.

Unless you've got the smartest rocket scientists in the world helping you do it. It's not like Elon screwing the deadbolts into the side of the rocket. Like he's got people that are doing that. He did the first part right by thinking outside the box and identifying all these things that we now know were waste, fraud, and abuse. The second part, he didn't even care to think about. Like it was somebody else's job, right? How do you actually effectuate this?

Into law. Like, how do you make this... Like, how do you actually go about cutting it? You got it. Yeah. And, like, they walked into obvious court decisions where, like, well, listen, Congress...

past the funding directed to go where it goes constitutionally. You look at the Constitution. It's a... Power of the purse. Power of the purse. Like, they do the thing. Like, it's not a hardcore case to solve. Like, this is not, like, we all act like we're outright. We're not really outright. I mean, that's very, very simple. You can't just walk in and stop congressional spending. What you can do is identify that

And then campaign to make sure that Congress doesn't ever do that shit again, which they missed that component of it. But what bothers me about what he's doing here when he's talking about a pork filled congressional spending bill is that this has nothing to do with spending at all. Reconciliation. And I don't want to get too deep into this, but what it is, is they're dealing with taxes and entitlements. Two things.

Two things, and that's the only thing you can deal with in the context of reconciliation. And the benefit of that is that you can do it with 50 votes rather than 60, meaning you don't need Democrats at all when you have Republican majorities. That's why you can get it done. They can deal with entitlements and they can deal with taxes. Trump campaigned on not touching entitlement, campaigned on it.

Literally, that was his first ad in the primary in Republican politics. We are not touching any. If anything, we're going to make it easier on people who get Social Security, Medicare. OK, so that shit, the entitlement side is off the table. Congressional Republicans, along with like Stephen Miller, Russ Vought and a bunch of conservatives did some very, very smart things on the Medicaid side by saying like, OK, illegal aliens, you can't get it.

if you don't work for a living as an able-bodied adult, like let's put some work requirement, the kind of things that we used to do on a bipartisan basis in the 90s that are now an anathema to the Democratic Party. Again, 80-20 issue. 80-20 issue. The American people are with us on this 100%. Yeah. So they cobble that stuff together to save $1.5 trillion. And then they want to extend...

The current tax rates, the tax rate that you see, you just paid two months ago. They want to extend that number because if they don't extend that number, it's going to go up roughly $3.5 trillion, meaning on average $3,500 to $5,500 per person who's listening to this. Your tax rates are going to go up. And of course, the Congressional Budget Office. Ugh.

Which is the absolute worst. Yuck, gross. They have no dynamic scoring of this whatsoever. They see it as a static, like you lower rates and money goes away type thing, despite the fact that over the last 50 years, every time you lower taxes, you get economic growth that actually produces more revenue to the federal government than you did at the higher rate. Yeah, look at the revenue for TCGA in 2019. They don't want to look at the math. No, that's an inconvenient number for them. So they provide a deficit number.

And for decades, this was a Republican and Democratic arc where Republicans were like, yeah, but you're just a dumb f***. Like you don't understand how this works because if you look every single time, the economic growth associated with tax cuts, more people, more investment, more money in your pocket, more consumer spending, all of those things creates a larger economy that we live in.

can then go forward with and create more revenue. And they're like, yeah, we don't want to hear it. It was a Republican versus Democratic argument. Well, now you've got some libertarians out there. Rand Paul is probably number one. You heard Thomas Massey, the one House Republican who voted against it. They were like, eh, this is deficit spending. They're saying that you're... So let me just start with... The problem is multifold. One is...

There is an assumption that something dealing with the rates of taxes that you pay is already assumed to the federal government. It's such an arrogant thing. It's a horrible way to look at it. And it's like it's especially arrogant coming from people who consider themselves libertarians. That's the thing. That you would presume –

that keeping the tax rates of Americans the same is somehow a deficit buster. I mean... Fix the government spending problem, dude. What are you talking about? And they talk about, I'll give Rand...

some credit on this and that he's got the political wherewithal to say, like, I would do something about Medicare, Social Security. I'm sure he would. You know what I mean? I don't doubt it for a second. He doesn't avoid that conversation. Of course. But the vast majority of people who find themselves in the like deficit conscious part of this discussion or are concerned about the price tag of the big, beautiful bill are people who hid underneath the we need to do something about spending. Never did anything.

And then look at what you're paying as what the price tag ultimately is. So it's an assumption that you are already paying the bracket that you were paying in 2016, which is three to five points higher than you paid last year. We have a deficit because you, taxpayer, are stealing from the government. That's it. It's unreal. That's it. That's the thing. And if that is your point of view, let me just suggest—

You're not a Republican. Join the Democratic Party. Join it. Get out. Like, you're not a conservative at all. If you're concerned about our deficit, let's have a wholesale discussion about chain CPI, age adjustments, any kind of evaluation on growth of Social Security and Medicare when it comes to income values, like a means test.

Oh, let's have a conversation about that, because if you're concerned about that's the conversation that you need to have to consider, like the government taking your money is like this is just the baseline. Like, why would you dare touch that is insane. That's but but it's it's even more insidious and even worse than that. It's not the rates that you're currently paying. It's a higher rate. They're assuming a higher rate. They're assuming three to five points higher.

The CBO is like, hey, we got to pass the hat because we can't cut any of this spending.

And you're just being a cheapskate, Mr. Taxpayer. Yeah. You're getting a good deal. Yeah. That's why we have a deficit because you're stingy. Yeah. I mean, think about that for a second. That is such an insane way to think. Yeah. And it gets worse when you couple in Doge and you find out all the ways fraud and abuse has been going on. But it's a separate process.

It's an appropriations process. It by law can't be in a reconciliation bill. Now, I understand why people are confused by this. And there could have been a messaging issue with that. They're like, honestly, I get it. Like you thought the big, beautiful bill. Well, you may have thought that like all that shit was in there. And we talked about this on, you know, previous episode when I was like, I think they kind of dropped the ball a little bit with the.

how they messaged the Doge stuff and then went to the reconciliation bill without trying to figure out a way to publicize, like, we're going to try to make this stuff statutory on the Doge cuts. Yes. You know, and we're going to hear from Joni Ernst about some of that. So like, also do not miss that interview because it's, it's fascinating on that side of it. But like,

I think that that elevated the confusion of people is that you can't spend the first hundred days talking about all this terrible, wasteful spending of the government and then be like, you know what? Keeping the rates is actually going to increase the deficit. Well, and they want it both ways.

They want it both ways. Yes. Yeah. They want to say that you not paying a higher rate is what contributes to the deficit. But then they're like, oh, well, we ought to do a whole bunch of things that we probably won't do to reduce it. So it's like vote no on either one. And like, I'm the I am the hardcore guy here, you know, and it's so anyway, listen, Stephen Miller, I want a single amount in particular. And we're going to get to this after the break.

This guy has been doing Yeoen's work at explaining the process. We don't expect you as a listener who's interested in this and interested in your tax rates and interested in politics in general to be an expert in parliamentary process. We spent 20 years doing this, which is why we know a little bit about it. Don't expect you to know it. But I do have a problem when people who know they don't know.

try to explain to you like it's simpler than you all think. That it's all the same thing. It's a deliberate misconstruing of a situation that the Trump administration is trying to get their arms around and all these members of Congress are trying to do. Stephen does a great job. We're going to get into everything he has to say right after this.

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building a brighter future right here at home. Visit chevron.com slash America to discover more. Okay, so we talked about how Stephen Miller is trying to explain this to everybody. I understand everybody's not on X, and it's certainly not going to be included in the legacy media. They don't give a...

I mean, they just don't care. Well, why would they? Because all they want to do is have a chyron on MSNBC talking about Republican infighting. Yep. Right? It's that, and then they go back to the Congressional Budget Office, which anybody who does this for a living knows since the beginning of time that you actually can't cut taxes with a number from the Congressional Budget Office because it doesn't reflect reality. Right. It doesn't. It's been 30 years of demonstrated...

falsehoods and yet they just keep coming back to it but they all run with those two incredible cottage industry it's unbelievable but anyway here's Miller's tweet let's toss up graphic three one of the one of the bigger points of confusion on the BBB is spending versus tax cuts the lefty CDO says extending 2017 tax cuts preventing their expiration which is right glad of the specified that increases the deficit

Some critics have seen this figure and claimed or implied the bill increases spending. Okay. All right. Let's stop. Let's stop right there. That's one component that you need to understand. When they say this increases spending or when Elon Musk calls it a spending bill full of pork, as he said, what they're talking about, the pork in the spending is

is the gulf between the tax rate that you paid last year and the higher tax rate they're suggesting that you pay next year. It has nothing to do with USAID, with the nonsense things that Doge was talking about. The bullshit to the NGOs. None of that is relevant to this discussion. None of that is in... It is simply the gulf between...

The tax rate that you just paid on April 15th and the tax rate that they would like you to pay, which is three to five points higher than that. Right. That's it. When they say spending, that's what it is. It's not that like people have gotten this confused about what that is, of that the CBO is essentially as an entity, they believe that.

All your money should be theirs to start with. Unless you're collecting every American's every penny, well, that's a deficit because there's Americans left with money that could have been sent to Congress. Well, Smug, I would go further and say it's not a confusion. I would say it's being willfully obtuse to quote Shawshank Redemption. Yeah, it's good. Willfully obtuse. Why are you being obtuse? Now, it is, but this is where it gets really bad.

So even, is it Miller again? I'm quoting from Miller again. Even according to CBO, the bill cuts spending by over $1.6 trillion. So when a libertarian, Rand example, attacks the deficit impact of the bill, they're attacking just the tax

A libertarian attacking a tax cut. Yeah. So let's get that clear because there's political vulnerability on what he's talking about, the $1.6 trillion spending cut that is in this bill.

also provides a whole lot of liability to a whole bunch of Republicans in the middle. You've heard that show up in the context of Medicaid cuts and all these things, which we can contextualize later. But that's like where the political vulnerability the Democrats are trying to seize on. What he is talking about is, again, the gulf between what you paid in taxes and

And what in 2016 you paid in taxes, which is three to five percent higher. Right. And they're calling it spending. It's just absurd. They're calling it government spending. I just want to make that clear. The money that you have, that you worked hard for, that you send Uncle Sam when it's not higher than they'd like it to be.

That's spending. It's nuts.

What's most important to me and every person here on this panel is that we're honest with you and that we're looking out for you and your wallet. And like that is the end of the day. It's like I'm not going to live in a world where Republicans accept that the government has an a priori right to your money. That is not a Republican Party. That is not a conservative movement.

It may be very easy for us to be like, I don't know. He said, she said. Yeah, no, I'm not going to fucking... He said, she said. I'm not going to sit here in a microphone and fucking talk about how great things... And whistle past the graveyard because that's not reality. It's like there are people that are giving you a fucking line of bullshit when the reality is you're using a CBO score, these lefty bullshit artists, talking about how you actually need to just... You have to pay the 2016 rate otherwise or...

Well, you exploded the deficit. You're responsible. On me, the government, the people who elect us, they couldn't spend responsibly, so it's your fucking fault. Bullshit. Yeah. Bullshit. Yeah. Bullshit.

I could have sworn we talked about not swearing on this. Okay, well, whatever. I'm sorry. We talked about it. I just got, I got, I got animated. I'm sorry. You said, well, you know, the algorithm doesn't appreciate that kind of thing. They don't. They really don't. And you scolded me for it, and here we go. There was like three Fs and two Ss. I got lost in it. I'm sorry. Okay, well, I'm glad we're all on the same page now. Lost in the sauce. Authenticity, that's what I appreciate, not the algorithm.

Okay, anyway. So we'll pick this back up. So listen, he says – he goes on to say, of course, honestly accounted for extending the current tax rates at zero deficit impact. Of course it doesn't because that's what the baseline is. It's the amount of money that the government assumes. The problem is the government is assuming that taxes are going to go up 3% to 5%. And if the government doesn't get those 3% to 5%, CBO says that's spendings.

Right. So he's explaining this to you. And then he says the second major point of confusion is what is actually in the reconciliation bill. It's not an appropriations bill, as we've discussed, or a general budget bill. It provides no funding or authorization for ninety nine point nine percent of operations of government. It was written not by the appropriators, but by some of the most conservative members of the House. It is not a single Democratic provision or vote bill.

The bill has three principal sections. Tax cuts, welfare reform, that's the Medicaid piece, immigration and border security because they expand the pot of which is entitled to the defense of our country when it comes to our borders and immigration. It's a dream bill, he concludes. I can't argue with that in his context. How could you? I mean, this is a guy, Stephen Miller...

This has been his life's work. Yeah. He is an expert at this. He knows this better than almost anyone in this town. You know, I mean, you can't seriously disagree with what he said because he's describing the exact process as it exists. Yeah. I mean, look, if you've not a fan, not like not a fantasy of like, wouldn't it be great if we could? You know what I mean? And too much of our politics is that. Yes. Is like, wouldn't it be great if we could?

And it's like, no, but there is a reality that we operate in. And the reason why we're doing it this way is because we don't want to ask Chuck Schumer for votes. Yeah. And before you think like we're fanboys about this, let me just tell you, this is my least favorite tax bill that we've had in the 20 years I've been doing it. Because I don't think it's all that. It's like extending current rates. If you make a living on tips, you're going to be wild about it.

If you're a senior citizen who's had the benefit of the doubt for the American taxpayer footing the bill for you, from my perspective, for the best part of 40 years, you're going to love it. Right. For the average American, you're just going to be paying the same rate that you did. This is not some dramatic tax cut, but it does follow very closely along the lines of what President Trump talked about.

This was his campaign promise. I knew what we were getting into. I didn't expect like a massive tax cut as a result of this. He didn't promise one. He promised one to service industry workers. He promised one to senior citizens. And that was a shitload better than whatever Kamala Harris was coming back with. She was a champion of small business despite never –

Like having a single day in a small business. I don't know. I was told she worked at McDonald's. Yeah, yeah. Can't be verified. But like that is not – we're not like over the moon about the – this is the best that you can do.

on the campaign promises that President Trump made. I'd love to have a flat tax for crisis. That's the thing. In a dream world, I'd love it to hit 0%. I'm going to be real. That's what I would have loved the bill to be. But the thing is that everything Stephen Miller says here is truth.

You do. That's the thing. And, like, I think so many folks are completely confused about what this bill is, what it does. They think it's the, like, budget bill. And that, like, with Elon's... Clearly, Elon doesn't understand what's in the bill. Like, very clearly, when he's like, this is full of pork...

No, because it's not. There's no appropriations in this. There's nothing. There's no. It's literally. Pork is like appreciate. Pork is appropriations that you put in to get like essentially a congressman's vote on something. Be like, OK, let's put some government program in in like, you know, New Mexico's third district so we can get this guy to get on the bill. There's literally none of that because there's no appropriations going on in this bill. It's just the argument that the left has made and that people bought into was that.

If you don't hand your money over to the government, that's deficit spending. It's insane. It's one of three things when it comes to Elon. I'm just going to be totally honest. Do it. It's one of three things. The first, the most cynical, is this bill, you can't argue with it, zeroes out tax credits for electric vehicles. Tesla is built in large part...

On those tax credits, providing an economic incentive for the American people to use a deduction to buy an electric vehicle. It just was. I don't think that's it because I watched the purchase of Twitter.

You don't buy Twitter if you're worried about that. I watched him put all the skin in the game in 24. I watched the personal liability that that guy put himself through. I don't think he gives a shit about his bottom line. Like, I don't. Maybe it plays some role in that he's getting pinched with Tesla and all kinds of different things.

But I just don't think that's it. The second part is what I talked about in that he actually just doesn't understand government. He did the first part of what he does so well. In the second part, he just didn't understand or come to a complete understanding of how you go about effectuating his vision on shrinking government and eliminating waste. That seems plausible. The third is there's something else going on here.

And I don't know what that could be. I don't want to speculate too hard, but there is a story. There's a story that showed up that we got to tell you about because it may have some impact on some of this stuff. Steve Bannon, the war room, everybody knows Steve Bannon. He says that Elon Musk and Scott Besson had a physical confrontation. This is according to Newsweek.

Elon Musk allegedly got into a heated discussion with a senior White House official that turned physical during his time as the head of the Department of Government Efficiency, DOGE, according to Steve Bannon, a former chief strategist of President Donald Trump in his first term in office. Bannon told the Daily Mail that Musk's turbulent time at the White House took a dramatic turn when he allegedly shoved Steve.

62-year-old Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent during a heated exchange. According to Bannon, Bessent confronted Musk over his sweeping but unfulfilled promises to deliver $1 trillion of budget cuts. Scott Bessent called him out and said, you promised us a trillion dollars in cuts, and now you're at like $100 billion. Nobody can find any savings. What are you doing?

According to Bannon. Okay. Okay. And that's when Elon got physical, according to Bannon. It's a sore subject with him, Bannon said. It wasn't an argument. It was a physical confrontation. Elon basically shoved him. According to Bannon, the clash occurred as Musk and Besant moved from the Oval Office to outside the Chief of Staff Susie Wiles' office and then past the office of then National Security Advisor Mike Waltz.

Trump 100% sided with Besant after the clash, Bannon added. I don't think Besant has any bad blood, but he's got a job to do and he is going to do it, according to Bannon. Okay. So that's...

Bannon's plugged in. I'll say that, man. Bannon is plugged in. He's plugged in. Bannon is plugged in. Okay. Yes. However, I would say he's had the knives out for Elon. Oh, he has. He might be an unreliable narrator when it comes to this sort of thing. I don't know. Or a lot. I don't know. I would think if this was complete, this is me, just, you know, what I do best. Just ask some questions of it.

But like if it didn't happen, wouldn't someone immediately come out and be like, that didn't happen? Actually, of course that didn't happen. You would have seen more commentary, I think. But I don't know. Again, maybe you just want it to go away and it's Newsweek. It's basically like a clickbait publication that doesn't have any real weight. You just kind of make it go away. And I don't know. I mean, listen, to be clear, we didn't inquire with the White House press office about this. Well, OK, so here's my take on it. I mean, like Besson could be right 100 percent.

But if he really thought that he was going to get to a trillion dollars of cuts, then he was setting up Elon Musk for failure. Because what Elon Musk was looking at was... No, Elon's the one that set a trillion dollars in cuts. Okay, fine. It wasn't... So like, yeah, I saw real quick, just like someone did a Grok fact check, which I love Grok for being able to do this, of like, what amount did Elon promise? I think he initially gunned for, he said on the campaign trail, he would love to see like two trillion in cuts.

Then Elon said, I'd love to see $1 trillion in cuts if we can get there. And then he moved it to the more reasonable. The gold became like $150 billion. Okay, I get all that. Here's what I would say in Elon's defense. If you're not somebody who's worked in politics, you look at the government, you look at the spending, and you think all things are the same thing, and I can look and find ways to cut across all of these things. But when your remit becomes USAID-based,

And all of these programs, it becomes a very small part of the pie. But again, this is why you listen to the Ruthless Friday program, because back in the primary of the Republican Party during the 24 election, we had an episode where we were extremely critical about multiple ads from Republican candidates saying, we will never vote.

change anything about medicare social security medicaid we're interested in our national debt like they basically just communicated to the american people now politics wise was that smart sure but it boxes you into a situation that you're describing right now look dude i i think elon approached this like most grassroots conservatives did and they're like

I don't understand what the process of this is. All I know is there's a lot of waste that is here in this government that we can cut out of it. And he wasn't thinking about reconciliation bills and what can fit in them or like what's discretionary versus what's mandatory spending. And he's like, I think I can cut this much out of the government. But like when you're also have your, like your, your, your sales kind of trimmed by the fact that like you're locked into that thing, like you said, Holmes, like,

It's an impossible task. You can't look around to the discretionary budget for waste, fraud, and abuse and be like, we're going to balance the budget. That's not a realistic thing to do. It's all just understanding the significance of the task that you're undertaking. I mean, there was like – I don't have the numbers, so I'm paraphrasing. These are definitely wrong. But like it's a million seconds ago was like last Wednesday and –

$10 million was like a month ago, and $100 million was like six months ago, and $1 billion was 20 years ago, and $1 trillion was like before the birth of Christ. Yeah, right.

So like understanding what you're dealing with when 73 percent of the American budget is on autopilot in that Medicare and Social Security and interest in the national debt category. When you take that off the table and pretend like you're going to balance the budget, it's a dishonest conversation. It is. It's a dishonest conversation. And like for you that are listening, like, look, it's really easy to be like, yeah, I

Government spends so much money on dumb shit, and they do, and they should root all of that out, and I think Doge exposed an awful lot of it. But if you're actually talking about balanced budgets, it's the only conversation you can have because you can shut down the government tomorrow, turn the lights off, not spend another dime, have every member of your Congress go home for the next 15 years, and you're not going to balance the budget. Think about that. But nature would begin healing.

But I mean, so like that's the honest conversation. Right. But people don't want to have it. They don't want to have it. And that's the difficult thing about politics. It's this conundrum we find ourselves in is like the actual solution to the thing is politically correct.

difficult to do and nobody does. Nobody wants, even the people who are most adept and take the most risk. Somebody like Elon Musk. Can't even get there. Can't get there. That tells you how disgusting this whole situation is that we've gotten ourselves into. Anyway, the question is, how does this end? Especially with the Elon and Trump thing. Like he's not working in the government.

Obviously, the president's biggest supporter, they're good friends. He's enmeshed in so much of the identity of this administration. But he's now like drawn a heavy line against the signature, the cornerstone of the Trump agenda. Hasn't it?

Great question. That's a great question. Like what happens here? Is it a divorce? Is it like people come to their senses? We have the conversation that you just heard because if you had that conversation, it feels like you get the right place. Yeah. But I don't know. When we come back, your comments from last episode on what can Trump do to stop the Middle Eastern terrorism?

from coming to the United States of America. Particularly proud of that episode. I think we did a really good job of breaking down just how corrupt the media is. We're going to get to all of it right after this.

America is built on hard work and powered by American energy. Chevron has spent $44 billion with local businesses across all 50 states since 2022, fueling infrastructure and communities, all while strengthening local economies. Last year, Chevron increased U.S. production nearly 20%, powering communities and businesses from the heartlands to the coasts. We're helping to fuel America's energy advantage.

Building a brighter future right here at home. Visit Chevron.com slash America to discover more. Okay, well, we usually start with a voice, but he's probably hugging the porcelain as we speak. Poor guy. I'll try to fill in the best I can. Okay. I mean, you made him sick. You might as well write. This is...

from David Henderson. Made him sick. You might as well fill in. Yeah. A little typhoid Mary down here. It's not true. I'm not going to do a HIPAA violation and explain why it's not true because I have respect for my co-host who's not here even though I trolled him in the opening sec. What do you think, Smith? He 100% made him sick. David Henderson writes...

Trump has done what he can do. It's time for Congress to act and codify into law Trump's EOs on this topic. Love the show, guys. I never miss it. Ladies and gentlemen, your attention, please. Are the greatest six words in podcasting, bar none. Thanks, David. They are. That's awesome. Fantastic. And an homage to our man, Smash, as he is staring down the...

Porcelain goddess. And we were going to have a King of the Hill until Duncan made him sick. I know. We had a good one, too. It would have been a great one. I would have banged out, too, because I had money stuff. Poor Ashbrook. All right. What do we got? Comment two comes from Rat Boyd, and they write, Trump could impose a travel ban on a list of countries and would get a news replay from 2017. Journals probably wouldn't even update the graphic. What?

That's good. That's so good. I love that. Comment three comes from Zach Gutman. Has any country successfully fought off a communist revolution? Whatever that takes is what Trump needs to do. But I have little faith he'll be able to do it with the media, the universities, and a lot of our court systems fully committed. Let me give you a little hope, Zach. We did it here. We did it here.

Don't think they haven't tried. They've tried each and every time they've gotten their hands on power. And one of the things that I'm most proud about in my entire career being associated with were the eight years that we served in a minority capacity under Barack Obama because they tried every day. They tried. They tried every day. Everybody forgets.

That everything that you're seeing today from the left, the seed was planted by Barack Obama. Yeah. 100%. Yep. But it has taken the vigilance. And it's why we spent so much time on the front end trying to get the shit right with our own people about what it is that you're hearing and making sure we're all on the same page about.

Because you can't beat these people if half of your people are using their talking points. Right. You know what I mean? Don't be divided. Like, if you think that your tax dollar is reckless government spending, like, if you think that the gulf between the tax rate you paid this year and what you paid in 2016...

is a government spending activity, you've missed it. You've missed it. You've missed it. You've missed what it takes to be a conservative. That's what communists do. They try to confuse. You're stealing from the government. Yeah, you're stealing from the government. It's all of our collective thing. We've just yet to determine how much it is that you owe. Yeah. Right? And depending upon how you could look at it as successful or you could look at it as a threat...

to the government that we pose and the decisions that we make for you, we reserve the right to do more. We'll decide who deserves this. That, Zach, is what the communists have in mind, but we've had a lot of success. So has there been a country? It's us. Only us. Just got to continue. So we got to go right into an interview. Joni's going to give us context on this. With that, Joni Ernst.

Well, we wanted to give you a little bit more flavor for the big, beautiful bill as it goes into the Senate. And we thought, eh.

Who else but to talk about something than somebody who is taking that right on the chin and come back fighting to try to explain all of this to everybody, giving you a little insight into what the Senate is about to do, Joni Ernst. Senator, how are you? Oh, great. It's good to be with you. It's always nice to be with the fellas. Always nice. I think she probably needs a jacket. We talked about...

procuring jackets for people who appear on the program four more times. I feel like you're now... Like an Augusta jacket. Oh my gosh. Yes. I think so. I think we need to... Wolf, let's get on that. Thank you. We'll get to station. Thank you.

Listen, you've been a part of a lot of really contentious debates over the years, always with a thoughtful touch, representing your constituency, trying to see the impact of everything. But when you get into tax debates with Democrats, it's insane, right? I mean, they've totally misconstrued everything that is a part of a package. Obviously, that's what's happening now.

How do you see just at the onset, before this thing sort of gets into the meat of votes and all of that, where do you think the big, beautiful bill is in the United States Senate? Well, in the United States Senate, we are currently drawing up our own provisions that will go forward into the big, beautiful bill that President Trump wants.

And so it's going to be a good process, a thoughtful process as we move through this. And even before the bill text ever came out from the House, we heard a lot of screaming and wailing out across the United States with people not even understanding what was going to be in the bill or how it would end up in the Senate and then what form it would take once the Senate got done with it.

So there's still a lot of work to be done, but there's a lot of teeth gnashing and hand wringing going on over this. But truly what we are trying to do, one, we want to extend or make permanent the tax cuts of 2017 through the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. Which, you know, look –

I put my communicator hat on and this is like the leadership role that I used to have in a comms capacity. We keep talking about this in tech.

Tax cuts, yeah, no, there's tax cuts in here for sure. But so much of this is about keeping everyone's tax rate exactly where it's at. If you don't do something, it's going up dramatically. Dramatically. What we would look at would be a $4.3 trillion tax increase on the American people if we do not extend these tax cuts, if we do not make some of these permanent taxes.

One thing as well, we've had conversations and as we look at modeling on the impact of not doing this bill, we could see a 4% drop in GDP across the United States, setting us up for a very, very serious recession. And that's the thing that the bean counters over at the Congressional Budget Office have never understood. And I've been a part of now.

More than I want to admit, but at least four different efforts to try to cut taxes. And they always come back with the same thing. We've been talking about this a lot lately where CDO is like, well, it's always a static look.

Well, they've cut taxes so that revenue comes out and so you're going to have this much revenue. It is absolutely no bearing on what the economy does as a result of it. I mean, I think we saw – Yeah, and in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, they predicted we would lose $1.5 trillion in revenue as a result of it.

They were off by $1.5 trillion, as it turns out. And you had COVID in between. Yeah, COVID in between. I mean, you could just look at the revenue number that came up in the year after and see that they were wrong. But they seem to always get it wrong. And part of it is they can't, like you were saying, they don't look dynamically at what the economy is going to do as a result of it.

You know, businesses and people finally having some predictability of what the rate is going to be for the foreseeable future. Like businesses don't plan one year in advance. They plan 10 years in advance. And you look at this from the standpoint of Iowa, right? I mean, can we miss the people of Iowa, by the way? It's been like an hour. They are so good. It's been over a year since we've seen the good people of Iowa.

And she's hosted us around. Yes. You were great out there. You need to come on back because we've got the state fair. I've got my roasting ride coming up in October. Lots of opportunities, folks. Okay. All right. We'll take it under advisement. But I mean, the way that, and we've known you for a long time now, and the way that you look at it is, all right, what impact did this have on Iowans?

Iowa farmers, you know, people who are just trying to make a living, whether they're in the no tax on tips situation with people who are, you know, waiting on tables and things like that. And you look at that versus what it is that people are trying to do to stop this. I mean, it's a traumatic difference.

Yeah, I think what we're seeing from the left is, again, a lot of fear-mongering, and they're not thinking about the people that are impacted by not engaging.

enacting this legislation. Like you mentioned tax on tips. I mean, that's pretty significant. No tax on social security. Oh my gosh. Let's please help our older folks. That can't be true. Senator, I was told this is a giveaway to the rich. Well, that's what I was told reliably. It's just for the rich. Yeah. You know, I, oh gosh, I think about my mom, my mom and my dad. And I think a lot of folks do tend to forget that senators are actually human beings too.

Well, you in particular. You in particular, I feel like.

all of us do take that into consideration. I think about the reference prices, which are prices that are set by the federal government, reference prices for our farmers. When it comes to, say, natural disasters or times of drought, what prices do you use when you're trying to compensate farmers? Those reference prices haven't been updated since 2014.

Things have changed significantly for our farmers since 2014. And in the 2014 Farm Bill, it was data that was from 2012. So we are updating reference prices in the reconciliation bill. That's a huge deal, not just in Iowa for our farmers, but all across the United States. So things like that, the no tax on tips, no tax on Social Security, etc.

Of course, we want to strengthen Medicaid, which we think is really important. My staff, in just going back and looking at the situation, there were over $543 billion with a B in

And mispayments made through Medicaid for people that were not eligible just over the last 10 years, half a trillion dollars. So we have to get that right. It's always been a conversation about waste management.

Fraud, abuse, illegal immigration. It's never been about a cut to Medicaid. No. And I know, like, look, nobody can take a joke these days. Nobody can take a joke. So, like, you make a joke and all of a sudden you're the person who is, oh, you want to defund and kill people. But, like, the very premise...

of the attacks that you've undergone is the idea that you just have to like separate your mind from what this bill does from just some political talking point that Democrats are going to have about anything in, in terms of Medicaid.

I don't think this is... I mean, if it was up to me, I'd do a hell of a lot more if I had just like a magic wand in terms of reforming that system. You've seen places like California with Medi-Cal. Yeah. I mean, it's basically the backstop to bloated budgets that they have in that state. I mean, there's a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse there. But this is kind of a scalpel to make sure that people who are on Medicaid can actually receive it. Right. And...

At the town hall that I had the other day, there was a really, really good story that was shared by one of the members of the audience that was a great example. It was a young mother of four. Her husband is working. She is working. But they are part of our working poor.

And they need Medicaid. It's literally designed to help. And they shouldn't get the short shrift because people are abusing the system. Exactly. And that's what I shared with her. I said, that is a really incredible story. And you are exactly the people that we want to protect on Medicaid. This is admirable that they're working.

Exactly. The demonization of politics, it never gets to that story. We have a ton of listeners who, you know, we did a whole segment on this whole thing and they got back to us. Hey, there was a portion of my life where I was a single mother or single father and I was trying to deal with all this and I had to have some supplement to make sure that my kids were fed. And like, that's what I kept coming back to is like, you got to know these people. Have you know Joni Ernst? Mm hmm.

She's not interested in doing anything but making sure that you can get to the place that you're at with ensuring that you're taken care of and you have the capability of rising out of it and going. Absolutely. You know, becoming a more productive piece of this economy. That's the whole goal of this bill. So, yeah, I think that the demonization that is out there and, hey, I've got broad shoulders. I can take it. Yeah, you've done a lot of it.

But what a lot of folks don't remember is that just 10 years ago when I shared my personal story about wearing bread bags over my shoes when I was a kid. I remember it well. Because we only had one pair of shoes. Yeah.

My mother went to extreme lengths to make sure that we were always neat and tidy going to school. I wore homemade clothes that my mother made. My mother canned. We had a huge garden. So I came from a family that probably would fall within those poverty ranges today. Yeah.

But we were a very proud family. My family worked really hard. Today, I'm a United States senator, but I still live in my home community. I still go to church with the same people I grew up with.

I can't say that of a lot of these Democratic members on the other side that went to private schools and really fancy colleges. You know, the dress I'm wearing today came from Goodwill and Council Bluffs. So, I mean, I'm serious. I still know my roots, where I came from, and I can appreciate that people fall on hard times. But what we are trying to do is help them up out of those hard times.

And so for the left to be out there in their fancy suit jackets and just berating everyone for trying to help people do a little bit better. And as you said, protect what we have so that it goes a little bit farther for those families that truly do need it. Right. That is really, really important. Yeah. And it starts with being a good custodian of the people's money, I think, because

As we get into CBO scores and you've seen this construed even on our own side, misconstrued is the this is a spending bill. Yeah. Spending. No, it's about taxes and entitlements. And you can make reforms to make these entitlements stronger, as we've discussed. But ultimately, this is the people's money.

And what we're talking about is taking either taking by doing nothing, taking more of it away from the American people or allowing them to keep, you know, virtually the same amount they've got more or in special circumstances, they get a lot. You know, you get no tax on tips and that kind of thing. But that ideology is what made most of us Republicans is you understand that.

federal government's working for the people. It's not, we're not just taking your stuff and telling you, we can do it better than you can. And as this debate has progressed and you've seen like the Elon Musk comments where he's talking about this bill in a way that it's a big spending bill. It's not doing all kinds of things. And he's frustrated about the doge cuts. You've talked about the doge cuts, but it's a separate process.

It is. And what we are hoping in the Senate as well is that we can find other cuts. We can make the bill better because there is, believe me, I've been doing this for over 10 years now with my squeal awards and my squeal work.

We've got a long ways to go to get things a lot better. And it's fraud. That's a throwback to the first. Make them squeal. Make them squeal. I love it. But we can do much better. And so I share Elon's frustrations and I've worked with him on Doge.

And so we can do better in the Senate, but it is a separate process when it comes to the discretionary spending portion of our budget. That will be done through a rescissions package and...

We have the first one that's gone to the House already from the president and director vote over at the Office of Management and Budget. So we're starting with a very small $9 billion package that we can rescind, get rid of that spending, but there's a lot more to go. And we can do that. So you won't see all of the savings in the reconciliation package.

But for the American people, we will continue working on this because a lot of what is being rescinded is money that as a federal government, we really shouldn't be spending. We really shouldn't be spending. How frustrating, though, is it for you to see it conflated where we're talking about very real cuts that Doge identified, Elon identified in his team.

with the idea that they'll take a CBO score and they'll be like, well, it's $4 or $5 trillion deficits as a result of that. Very clearly what that is, is you paying the tax rate that you're currently paying, they're scoring that as a $4 trillion loss. And as we've seen over two decades, the economic growth overwhelms all of that.

It's got to be frustrating sitting in your seat knowing all that and also knowing how difficult it is to explain all of that when Democrats are making this argument that somehow they're budget hawks. Oh, my gosh. Right?

A little bit of a throwback. Sorry, I go back to the Iowa State Senate when one of my first days there, I had a Democratic senator behind the chambers. He laughed at me and he was like, ha ha ha, Joni, I love being a Democrat. I never have to tell anybody no.

I mean, he literally said that to me. And I see the same thing here in Washington, D.C. The Democrats never say no. You see a big, good spending bill, man, they're all about it. Put more in there.

And now all of a sudden, yeah, they want to be these fiscal hawks. Well, actually, we're the ones being the hawks going through Doge and finding the savings, the fraud, waste, and abuse. It's never popular to find the fraud and abuse because everybody's got an excuse for it. Oh, my gosh. And somebody has to be the adult in the room, right? I mean, that's what the brand of the Republican Party is. And if we ever lose that, then we're going to lose what we've gained. And we can't be afraid to have this fight.

Like we have to do it, you know, even if it's difficult, it's always easier to tell everybody yes to everything that they want. But then we're going to lose our way in all this stuff. Yeah. No question about it. Well, listen, big heart. We know where you came from. We've watched that all the way through your entire career. Happy to say I was there at the beginning of your career. Yeah.

and you've always been a good friend of the program. I know you're looking at this the right way. Thanks for your good work, and let's hope we get it done. Yeah, I hope so too. And in the end, we will have a strong bill that protects the most vulnerable in our population, making sure that they do have access to medical care, making sure that those hardworking entrepreneurs and small business owners are still receiving the tax opportunities that they should receive.

I mean, this is all about making America stronger again. And I think we're well on our way. So thank you. Thank you so much. Joni Ernst, ladies and gentlemen. All right. Thanks to Senator Joni Ernst for coming in. She puts a lot of that in context. I do find it completely hilarious that if you're in cycle, you can't joke about anything. No. And like she makes an offhand. We didn't talk about it in the interview. She made an offhand comment about like everybody's going to die.

Yeah, to a bunch of like left wing activists who are like, if you end net neutrality, we're all going to die. If you pass TCGA, we're all going to die. They've said it about everything that Republicans have ever tried to do. And she tried to make light of it. And she was like, she wants people on Medicaid to die. Oh, she wants people to die. Yeah. Oh, OK. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely somebody who grew up like amongst the poorest of all of the United States senators is the one who wants to make poor people die.

Not the case, and I think she acquitted herself quite well in explaining what it is that they're trying to do. I just think that people like that are going to figure it out in the United States. I think this is all noise. And I think that Thune, the leadership team, they're all going to get together at some point and disabuse this nonsense about your tax dollars equal spending policy.

From the government. And I think you're going to get there. Anyway, thanks to her for coming in. We always appreciate it. We got a lightning round of stuff that we got to cover. Yes. This one caught my eye. Incredible stuff. It's a flashback to the Tuesday episode where we were talking about the Boulder, Colorado situation. USA Today had a take. Were they interested in...

I don't know. The victims? Explaining the motives of the terrorist? Yeah, were they talking about the political culture that gave rise and radicalized somebody in their midst? I hope so. Spoiler alert, they didn't. No, they write, headline, Boulder suspect's daughter dreamed of studying medicine. Now she faces deportation. In these trying times, we must think of the terrorist families. I mean...

What about the other bin Ladens? This is like, how do you look yourself in the mirror if this is your kind of thinking? How about elderly Jews dreamed of not being set on fire? Yeah, right. No, not an important story to tell. Their hatred of Trump and the cooked-in anti-Semitism among the left, which ostensibly also clearly extends to the media.

is so great and has rotted their brains and their souls to the point of they're like, Trump's deporting an illegal terrorist. I have to side with the illegal terrorist. What? So true. The guy is like 72 hours removed from Molotov cocktailing innocent seniors. And they're like, will somebody think of their family? She wanted to be a doctor. She wanted to be a doctor. Just like Ayman Al-Zawahiri. Yes!

A mostly peaceful class. Mostly peaceful. Oh, my God. All right. Our second story. This one's going to raise alarms. Guys, this is the kind – every once in a while there's a story where you're like, whoa, we got a lot of threats here. Me and Ashbrook were actually getting ready to do our hit on Jesse when this hit the breaking news headlines. He broke the show and he said this right before we went on. I was like, that's –

That sounds very bad. This sounds very bad. All right. So Fox News dot com broke the story. Patel sounds like he's talking about the FBI. Sounds alarm as Chinese nationals charged with smuggling agro terrorism agent into the United States, quote unquote, direct threat. So let me describe that for a minute. Chinese researchers. Racist. Oh, my God.

Why are you attacking the Chinese? The board. The board. It's back. Ashbrook's gone and the board is active. Remember when they told us that saying that Chinese lab is where COVID came from was racist? It was racist. I'm so sick of these things. Can't point it out. So good use of the board. Anyway, Chinese researchers, surprise, accused of smuggling a potential agri-terrorism weapon into the U.S. at a University of Michigan lab.

Kash Patel talked about all of this, and it was a dangerous biological pathogen in the United States. The University of Michigan Laboratory demonstrates a serious national security threat to America's food supply. The case is a sobering reminder, according to Patel, that the Chinese Communist Party continues to deploy operatives and researchers to infiltrate our institutions and target our food supply, an act that could cripple our economy and endanger American lives. So what it was...

really is a fungus that was being smuggled in it's called fusarium grammarium it's basically like the last of us if you've seen the last of us yeah it's a scientific it it classifies it as a potential agro-terrorism weapon that is a disease that causes head blight quote-unquote

And to put a finer point on that, a disease of wheat, barley, maize, rice, and is responsible for billions of dollars in economic losses worldwide each year, basically poisons your crops. Now, is the breadbasket of the world here in the United States a major source of our not only security or national security in that we're not reliant on anybody else for our food, but

Also, our economy will be export to the world. Just so happens to come at a time where we're having trade discussions about our agricultural exports to the world. Wow, that's crazy. Wow. Yeah. Interesting. I'm sure that's just a coincidence. Total coincidence in University of Michigan. Go blue. Go blue.

was more than happy to have these researchers come in and study such items. But they didn't do it through governmental means. These are people that work at the University of Michigan, which I'm understanding has NIH grants, all kinds of top security clearances and things that you would do to interact with the government to know exactly how it is that you can study these kind of things. These people brought it through a suitcase, right?

Right. And I would also point out when the investigators looked at his phone, they found an article about biological warfare. Interesting. Wow. Unrelated. Unrelated. He was like, oh, that? Just an austere scholar. And

And Houthi Mita has been like, we need these students in this country. The backbone of America is Chinese students trying to make the last of us real. That's the backdrop to this discussion. It brings us to the larger point. You look at everything that Secretary of State Marco Rubio is trying to do with expelling these radical elements from our universities, these foreigners who we come in and we have –

into our universities and educate them that, you know, maybe we should require these people not be enemies of the United States of America. What? You know? But also, like, the Statue of Liberty says, give me your enemies of America from high schools.

Give me your biological warfare. I want agritale. I think that's what Lady Liberty, if you look at the book, if you were able to peel back the first page, of course you can't because, you know, time. Who are we to judge? Corrosion. That is freedom. But if you open the first page, it says, give me your agritale. I mean, dude, it's just the most mind-boggling thing. And like,

They just so happen to stop these people. Who have we not stopped? Who have we not stopped? This goes to Smash's point that he always says. Like, this is just happenstance that we're finding out about these things. This thing could decimate the entire Midwest of this country. We let in millions and millions of people. If they drop it into the University of Michigan, by the way, has anybody talked to anybody at the Wolverine Center? Be like, hey.

Why are you guys working with these guys? It's a pretty bad school, to be honest. And the stadium's not what it's cracked up to be. It's a horrible stadium. Taking shots at the big house. That might be the most pro-Ohio thing you've ever said. Yeah, well, I mean, that's the thing. I mean, Ohio State's much better. Everyone knows this. And you don't hear about Chinese agroterrorists at Ohio State. I'll say that. Find me one. It doesn't happen. You wait for Ashbrook to be gone before you start taking a pro-Ohio? He has to be near death for me to say find me one.

All right, the last bit here is Karine Jean-Pierre. Another missing Ashbrook deal is Karine Jean-Pierre. She's written a book. You're not going to believe this stuff. I mean, it's unbelievable. I can't believe she wrote a book. Was it in Cram? Yeah.

Like how? I was like, it's going to be a children's book. It's a coloring book. No, rumor has it there was no drawings, a part of it. And nobody actually knew that it was on the market. But it came out and somebody sent out some excerpts where she reveals that she is leaving the Democratic Party. Oh, my God. So brave. She's now become working for Joe Biden was so bad. I'm leaving the party. I would point out she worked.

All the way to the end of his administration. Every last day. Every last day into 2025 to inauguration of Donald Trump. She didn't have this come to Jesus moment when she was like, you know what? This White House is broken. I must resign. Nope. She worked all the way to the end. And now she's decided it was broken. Yeah, she's decided that. And then she this is like the quote, the highlight quote that they've got.

As a history maker. Oh, wow. And you know what she's talking about, right? Which she's like the first openly gay, right? She's like, I just want to say real quick, I'm sick of that shit. I'm glad we're over it. Those are not real accomplishments. No, just simply being. If your accomplishment is an immutable trait, it's not an accomplishment. Thank you. You have to earn it. I think that's right. If it's like, I'm the first person to put up 100 points in an NBA game, that's congratulations. Yeah.

If you're like, I'm the first left-handed, under 5'10", golfer on a Sunday, like, that's not an accomplishment, dude. I feel like you just described me. In your defense, you're a great golfer. Thank you. I appreciate that. But so she says, as a history maker, a veteran public servant—

political analyst and independent thinker she worked at moveon.org there's nothing move she was literally the spokesperson for the white house this independent independent thing she urges americans to think outside of blue and red box whoa as we consider what's next to save democracy i'm waiting with bated fucking breath oh i can't wait

Can you imagine the prescription? And you know, like the funniest part about this is like it's either one of two things. Either this like the idea that she couldn't roll the geriatric into a second term. Yeah. Has gotten her so pissed at Democrats because they're the ones that ultimately pulled the plug on the whole situation that that's why she's losing leaving the party or that like the fact that they're not far left enough.

Because her whole background is significantly to the left of this crazy left administration that we just left. That can't be true. She's independent now. But she's independent. Can I give my honest take on this? Yeah. So this is what happened. So she is still unwilling to believe the fact that she has zero talent.

That she was given that job so that they could have a bullet point that we have hired the first black woman, gay, you know, person making history with this. When she saw the person who had the job before her got a TV show. Yeah. And didn't get one. Apparently the word on the street is KJP wanted a TV show and she didn't get one. Well, can I offer some career advice? Well, it's very difficult to find slots on MSNBC with 35 people watching. Yeah, it's difficult. I would suggest a different tact.

I think it's important that the Trump era go full circle here. Yeah. It started when Donald Trump was elected and it created the Never Trump movement. Former Republicans who decided. Oh, Never Democrat? Now we need a Never Biden Democrat. She could be like. Become a Republican. She could be like the Jefferson. Yeah. You know, the Lincoln Project. She could be like the Jefferson Project.

Oh my God. She could do that. Get that grift going. Make it come full circle. If you're listening, KJP, that'd make you money. You'd make a lot of money. You could trick people into it. Once you're clear of the interns, but other than that, like it's a clear sailing.

Clear sailing. Yeah. KJP. Listen, don't say we have never done anything for you. Never mind. It could work. Ideas coming out the wazoo over here. Another guy with a lot of ideas. We're very happy to have this dude. And it's very nice to change the top, particularly in all this nonsense that we've been talking about. Let's talk a little golf. Taylor Gooch.

Well, it's not every day that we have a professional golfer in here, fellas, but today is a special day. He's in town for a big live tournament. Taylor Gooch, good to see you, bud. Yeah, glad to be here. Fun times. Listen, you won the whole thing in 23.

It was a good year. It seemed like it had to. I mean, you were top 10 again last year, but it seems like the live thing's working out pretty well for you. Yeah, yeah. You know, I would say it's a good time to be decent at golf, you know, as a professional. Got some options. Yeah, it's been a good few years, man. I played on PGA Tour for...

Five years, and then moved over to Liv, and pretty crazy to think about this is season four. First season was kind of a half season, but this is the fourth season of Liv, which is crazy. So it's been a good few years. Time does fly, no question about it. And of course, all the discussion about reunification and all that, we won't get into it entirely here off the top. But it seems to me like, look, different format with Liv, different

But you're kind of cresting into a part of your career where you're playing just absolutely incredible golf by anybody's standards.

a little bit more of a laid back deal. Did that suit your style a little bit better, you think? Or was it just sort of like the fact that you were just playing good golf? It's funny. That's what a lot of people say. Like, man, it's like more relaxed, laid back. I'm like, yeah, until you have a putt that loses you a million dollars. Doesn't matter if you're wearing shorts. I don't know if there's anything laid back about that. But yeah, I mean, like having music go in, like a different type of feel of it is, you know, it's,

kind of more on par with other sports sporting events you know um so yeah it's you know it's different but at the at the end of the day it's still you gotta make birdies and you don't want to make bogeys and uh you know it's uh it affects your you know your tournament affects your wallet it affects you know what you're potentially doing the rest of the year so yeah it's it's it's it's like i tell people it's still golf you know uh but it's just you know

tuned a little bit differently. Yeah. Any difference in terms of the camaraderie on tour? Seems like, from the outsider's perspective...

I don't know if everybody's hanging out together, but it seems like there is a togetherness a little bit where you get at least what's flashed through the media. It seems like everybody's sort of like hanging out and having a good time. Obviously trying to win. Yeah. Well, just, you know, obviously with the team aspect, like you want to be the team that's like showing up the next week and everyone's like, oh, they won last week. So there's that. And then obviously kind of with –

you know, all of the adversity that we faced, especially early on, like, you know, it kind of galvanized all of us, even if we're not on the same team or not, you know, obviously when you're watching majors or other events and you see, you know, live God doing well, like we're cheering for our guys. Right. And so, um, but yeah, you know, uh,

Golf is not easy, and you're going to have ups and downs. And so that's the other kind of part of this is when you have teammates and you have guys. It was when we were in Singapore. I kind of had a couple tough starts to the season. And we're in Singapore, and I'm hitting balls next to Brooks, and he's one of my teammates. And we're chatting, and he's like, man, like,

Last year when you were doing this, it looked like you had more control. And so kind of having a little bit of that is nice to have some other eyes that are kind of giving you a little bit of input here and there. With a pocket full of majors? Yeah, exactly. Like I said, it's just a little bit different on tour.

It can be lonely, and it's a grind. And same with Liv. It's a grind, but having a little bit of that support system that's just a little bit different is something... As a dude that grew up playing... I played football, baseball, basketball from Oklahoma, so I wrestled. Like...

doing these team sports growing up and then kind of getting a little bit of that team aspect back into this individual sport is something that, you know, I enjoy. Do you still watch any tour stuff? Like last weekend's tournament? Not really, but also even when I was on tour, like I,

you know, this is my job. And so when I'm not doing my job, I, uh, I'm not really watching golf too much. Uh, so I, I, I play plenty of it with buddies back home and we'll have a cocktail and hang out so I can, I can still get away and enjoy golf in a different aspect. But, uh,

If I'm sitting there watching TV, I'm probably not watching golf. Can you imagine that? Your group of buddies has Gooch in it? Yeah. Friday, a couple of transfusions, and then, yeah, Gooch is on my squad this Sunday. Well, I have a question. So you play, obviously, a ton of competitive golf. We don't. We're amateurs, right? We play for fun. I'm curious, like, when you want to have, like, a relaxing round of golf, like, who would be your go-to player you'd want to play with? Like, anybody in the world? Anybody. Anybody.

Gosh, that's a great question. So I'll answer it like in a little different way. So I have a group of buddies that every year we do a golf trip together. Yeah. And there's eight of us. And most there's only a couple that didn't grow. Most of us grew up together. There's only like two or three dudes that didn't like grow up since we were five years old together. And so and they're all.

former college athletes, we have tennis, football, a few baseball, golf. We have good athletes that no longer are

are athletes that have taken up golf, right? They all love golf. And there's one guy that's about a 12, 14 handicap. The rest of the guys are anywhere from a plus to, you know, two handicaps. So it's a really good collection of guys. And we've done some different formats over the years. We've done like six or seven years of this trip now. But

Most of the times we've split it up into two teams of four. And so – Nugent's shit talk. And so, oh, my gosh. Pretty much the most talking is throughout the year of like if I go have a good tournament, it's – well, in our group text it would be like, well, this year you're going to be a plus eight instead of a plus seven. Like we got to adjust the strokes now. And so most of the talk, especially in the month leading up to it, is like –

You know, like, oh, like one of the dudes, his name is JP. Like JP just played with Jared Wright. Like JP shot 400 today. We're having to move his handicap, guys. Like so there's some really, really good banter that they get. So to answer your question, our group trip that we do every year, that's the one. And we play four rounds.

We always go to Scottsdale just because we always do it in December, January. So go get some good weather. And so round one and round three, from tee to green, you can take a mulligan at any point in time. Okay. It's unlimited. Once you get on the greens, you can't take any mulligans. But from tee to green, take a mulligan. But...

to take the mulligan, you have to take a shot first. Yes, that's it. And so, you know, and being in Scottsdale in desert golf, those can come in handy. Yeah, exactly. And so, but also, you know, sure enough, everyone starts to kind of feel like Superman and like I'll hit like a wedge like 25 feet. I'm like,

well, I'm not making that. I've got to hit one closer. And I can hit one closer. Oh, yeah, right. Right? And then so the scores are really never that much different, even with the mulligans, because, you know, as we know, there's the return starts to kind of... There's a curve. Right? There's an inflection point of like... There's also a sweet spot. It's helpful. It's helpful. Oh, no, it's detrimental now. So, yeah, there's been...

That's my – if I got – I'm not picking one dude. I'm picking our group, and we're going to go do our thing. It's fun. Diminishing returns. All right. I want to talk about a couple other things that you're involved in. Obviously, your foundation work, which I don't think – a lot of guys like you who make an extra effort to create a foundation –

important to you. I don't feel like this stuff gets talked enough about. People think of you as a professional athlete, winning this, winning that. But this seems like a really important cause, Gooch Foundation stuff for you. Yeah, my wife and I started it back in 2022.

Um, and it was something that we had talked about, you know, for years. And, uh, I have an incredible wife who's set such a giving heart and we had talked about for years, like I've had such a blessing of a life and career and how do we, how do we give back? And so, um, and so we had talked about for years and then we kind of decided to make the jump and do it. And so it's, uh, like I said, we've been doing it for a few years now and it's, you know, it's,

It's so cliche, but it's cliche for a reason. Like it's the most rewarding things that we do is to see, you know, our extra effort, our extra time, our, you know, our heart and soul being put into this and to see the impact that it makes. It's super cool. And so I'm from Oklahoma City originally. And so our foundation focuses on the best way to put it is helping children, helping the youth and giving them opportunities. And that's not just through golf. While golf has been

uh, an extreme blessing to me. I don't, um, want us to just focus on, all right, let's just get more clubs in people's hands. Like I love the game, but you know, there's a lot more to life, you know, uh, than just, you know, getting people into golf. And so, yeah, it's been, it's been an incredible few years and, um, our, we have one big event every year, uh, pro-am, uh, fundraiser that we do. And it's going to be, uh, the Monday after live Dallas, which is our next event after this weekend. Uh, yeah,

We always get a bunch of pros and celebrities come and play for the day, which is awesome. We raise a bunch of money and do a lot of good with it. It's coming up. It'll be fun. That's cool. That's very cool. Oklahoma City. I'm from Minnesota, so I couldn't help but notice last week with your OKC squad. Then I was browsing stuff to see what you're up to before this interview, and I was like, oh.

Well, here he is, like, courtside. Absolutely shit-talking my team. And I was like, this isn't going to go well. But you know what? You guys, what a team. Dude, it's – so being from Oklahoma City, like, college is king where we're from. Because there's no pro sports until 2008 when the Thunder came along. Thanks, Seattle. Yeah. And so, like, when they came, it just – you know, being a sports dude, like, I just – and I –

College basketball was my thing at the time. And then NBA, I was like, I know it. I don't love it, but I don't have a team. And so once Thunder came in, it's my weeks and months and years are, you know, I'm that fan. It affects me, dude. So we were playing the PGA Championship last year at Valhalla.

and we lost that week to the Mavs in the second round of the conference last year, Western Conference. And my caddie, who's from Australia but has spent –

last 20 years in the States, majority of the time he's been in Dallas. And so, you know, he's... He's a Mavs fan? Yeah, kind of. Not a real fan. It's a troubling matchup. A true Australian is, you know, going to do a lot of shit talking no matter what. And so, with his kind of fake team being the Mavs, he was giving it to me that week and we ended up losing to the Mavs like...

I think Friday or Saturday night. And the next day we were teeing off. It was like Friday or Saturday night because I'd made the cut. I wasn't playing that great, but I made the cut. And the next day we're teeing off like whatever, 9, 10 a.m.,

And my caddie had sent me a couple of texts after the night before of like us getting closed out of the series. And I think he could tell like it hit me just enough because he didn't talk about it for like the first like eight holes. And then like at the end of like, you know, like the 12th or 13th hole or something like that, I made a birdie kind of like, you know, feeling good. And he goes, well, can we talk about it now?

And I was like, okay, well, good on you for not bringing up fire to this because I would have maybe like kicked you off the back for the day and brought a buddy in. But yeah, so it was funny. But I'm feeling way better now than I was a year ago. So this guy's an Indiana guy. Oh, okay. One piece of advice, if you do go courtside in Indianapolis for the NBA Finals, McAfee's going to roast you and they're going to boo you. So don't go courtside. Don't do that.

Sit up on the two-iron. Or at least not go eye-to-eye. Make sure he doesn't know who you are. That's funny. The thing that sucks is game one is Thursday, which I tee off Friday, so it's like missing game one at home. But that's all right. It's going to be fun. You're a big sports guy across the board. Couldn't help but notice that once all of your success is sort of compounded here with your golf game, you get into some other stuff.

Bull riding. You own a bull riding team. Can we talk about that? It sounds crazy, and it is crazy. I've never been on a bull, first and foremost. Most people go to it. They're like, did you grow up riding bulls? I'm like, guys, no. I grew up playing traditional sports, not this Western world of sports. And

So I was actually... Imagine there's an insurance policy on this guy's body. It probably would not... Correct, correct. Honestly, I think it might be that crazy. It's not even on there because they're probably like, the insurance company is probably like, no one's crazy enough to actually do this. But I was actually playing, I was playing the Open over, what year was it? It wasn't St. Andrews. One of the years I was playing the Open and my agent called me and my agent and I have...

a couple of businesses together. And so he's kind of my business partner slash agent. And he called me, he goes, dude, and he goes, you're gonna think I'm crazy. He goes, but you got to watch this show on Amazon prime. It's called the ride. Okay. Go watch it. And it was following season one of, so PBR. Yeah.

Kind of like golf, bull riding has been a traditional individual sport, right? In 2022, ironically, same time live, PBR decided to create what's called a team series. And so the first two years, 2022, 2023, there was eight franchises. Half the season, half of the calendar year basically was dedicated to the team series. And it was, I tell people, like it was...

Like if you watch it, you would think like, OK, if the PGA Tour had decided to create, start live and create like a team series, this is what this is. It's like the same concept. So I'm like watching this. I'm like, call my agent back. I'm like, dude, this is sick. Like there's got to be more than eight teams, though.

And so sure enough, they're like, yeah, we're, they're going to do two expansion teams. And I start, we start looking more and more into it. And all the analytics are incredible from a, like a viewership. Like there's, they get as much viewership as NHL. And there's all these numbers. And I'm like, dude, I feel like this is going to become something. And then sure enough, they're like, one of the expansion teams is going to like, we're going to have a team in Oklahoma. I'm like, let's buy that. Me. I know, I know how to, I know a few people there. And so, uh,

Now, a couple years later, we have a team. And, yeah, I know a lot more about bull riding now than I did two years ago. And that's crazy. That's not the end of the outdoor sports still is fishing team. Did you grow up fishing? I mean, yeah, but not like that. Not for Marlin and stuff. Like in Oklahoma, like I was getting like some perch and, you know, bass and stuff. A touch landlocked. Yeah, exactly. And so, yeah, that's a whole other thing. And it's just, yeah. I mean, this is what I love about this dude is it's like you just you're a sports guy.

Yeah. And so like, these are two interesting things. Obviously there's not a saturated marketplace. You want to be a part of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, who knows what the future of all looks like, but it's, it's fun. I think there's some, any of the guys that are on your team, like take you out.

Like guide you essentially? I haven't yet, but I'm going to for sure. And I just want you to know the Ruthless Variety program is available at any time. Let's make it happen. That would be fun as hell. That's awesome. So a couple other just sort of items. You play with Trump multiple times.

Yeah, yeah. How's that? It's amazing. Yeah. It's amazing. I mean, he's like... I tell people he's just... On a golf course in particular, but outside the golf course too, but he's just an entertainer, dude. Like, he's just...

Yeah.

we, uh, back when I was in junior, junior golfer in high school, there was a tournament called the U S junior amateur. And it's widely regarded like the top junior golf tournament in the world. And, um,

It was at Trump Bedminster, and this was 2009. And somehow, some way, I had kept over the years, I had had him sign a flag. He came and walked around with me and my dad in a practice round, and I just went, and I was like, hey, you know, Mr. Trump, this was before it was Mr. President Trump, like...

I went and got a flag, and he signed it, and I somehow kept it. And so when I went and played with him back in November, December, I brought it with me because the flag said, like, you know, 2009 U.S. Junior Amateur. No way. Like, you know, Trump Bedminster, and it's his same exact signature. Everybody loved that. And so we go and play, and we finish the round. We have lunch after, and I went to the locker, grabbed it, and I said, you know, Mr. President, this is crazy. I'm like, but...

I need another signature. And I like threw it down and he looked at me. He literally said something like, you gotta be shitting me. It was, it was, it was such a, such a cool moment. And Tiffany, his daughter, Tiffany was there and like, she looked at it and she was like, dad, this was before everything. This was like before all this stuff. And so it was, it was, it was one of those cool moments. I was like,

You're probably not going to remember much about me, but you're going to remember if I come and bring this flag in front of you. So it was, yeah, it was cool. It was crazy. I mean, he's obviously a huge golf fan, a huge golfer in his own right. I mean, obviously he's a lot of fun in a lot of different places in the golf course. Notwithstanding, he's taken a big interest in not only live golf,

big PGA guy too from the very beginning. And this administration has talked a lot about trying to assist in some way and like a reunification effort. What do you think? What is your take? I think nobody knows anything about what could potentially happen. Like it's, and we're to the point, like from my perspective, it's like, it feels like you hear something new or different every other week. And so, but until something actually happens, like,

I'm just going to continue to focus on birdies and let all that handle itself. It'll be interesting, though. I don't know what the market demand for it in some way. Yeah. I mean, I think everyone would agree, like what would be best for the fans, which is the best for everything. That's what like that's what I think most of us golfers would agree with this, too, is like.

it's become about more than just like what's best for the fan at times. And like we, my cat and I will, we'll joke at times. Like when we're out at a tournament and you hear like these crazy dudes that are yelling obscene things and, uh,

We're always like, could you imagine being that guy that's saying that? But also, I'm thankful. Because of him, I get to do this for a living. And so the attention has gone away from the fans in some aspects of this. There's been some improvements in the production and some of the parts that I think have been tailored towards making golf more entertaining to watch. But...

I think what's best for the fans is that the best of the best are playing together. That's exactly right, man. And I don't know if you caught this, but on Sunday at the Memorial, Jack Nicklaus himself made a comment about this. He said that Scotty Scheffler...

knows that some of those other guys that were on the leaderboard with him are not in his league. Obviously they're great guys or great golfers, but he, his larger point about the lack of competition is the first time I've ever heard him say something like that. And I feel like maybe there's some forward momentum here to, to best golfers together. Yeah, I hope so. I, again, I think, you know, I don't think there's really many people that would disagree with, like everybody wants that at every level. Like,

the sponsors, the fans, the players, like everyone wants the best of the best competing together, right? Like, and we, back when I was on PGA Tour, we, like, it was a pretty normal conversation of like, there's too much golf currently and it allows like too many events to have two different fields where, like,

Like, I could always compare it to this. Like, if I give you pizza 40 weeks a year, the other 12 weeks, you probably don't want pizza, right? It's part of what makes, like, the NFL king is, like, from February 1 until September 1, essentially, like, you can't have it. It's just human nature, right? And so even before Liv came around, there was talks with PGA Tour of, like,

we have to adjust this system, right? And so, again, I don't know where this all lands or what it looks like. I think anyone who says they do is full of crap. Yeah.

But I'm hopeful sooner than later that it will land in a place that the best of the best are competing way more often together than not. And right now it's just, you know, not the case. There's not the best of the best competing. And, you know, the other discussion is like the majors, you know, it's they've had the chance to be the place where the best of the best, you know, are competing together all the time. And,

you know, you got to hope that they're going to continue to figure out ways, you know, beyond, you know, the last 10 years of what it's looked like. Like, you got to think that they're going to want to continue to, you know, figure out how do we continue to figure out who the best of the best in the world are so that we can get all of them, you know, together for our events. Because, you know, the majors are not the PGA Tour, you know, technically. And so they have an opportunity to kind of,

improve their product honestly like they can be that stand alone until all this gets figured out they can be the ones to be like hey we're gonna figure out how to have all these together which if I'm you know the PGA of America or the USGA or Augusta like I'm sitting there thinking like dude this is an opportunity to almost like

bind the powers that be and the fans and everyone back together and we can be at the forefront of that and a few of them have started to slowly and so hopefully things are on the right path and you know we'll look back on this in 5-10 years and kind of chuckle about

Yeah. A little bit of this like chaos in the middle of it. From a fan perspective, I definitely hope that is the case. Yeah. Let me ask you one last aspect of that. I mean, you're a professional athlete. Focus on your craft. Try to do the best you can, particularly in an individual sport like the one that you're involved in. All of a sudden, it becomes super political internationally. Yeah.

I imagine that that is sort of a disorienting process where all of a sudden you're like personally being attacked, that you're in a political discussion that you never asked for that, that, that all of that and how that encompasses your golf group. But then you turn around and go out and win the whole thing in 23 at the height of all of that, you will just sort of compartmentalize it or. Yeah. I mean, we're crazy, dude. We play a crazy sport to begin with. So, you know, we, we talk about a lot, like, you know,

you know it's it's our job and it's since I was nine years old like this is what I've wanted to do yeah and you don't get you know to playing on the pj tour live like you don't get to become one of the best players you know in the world without being ultra competitive right and so um yeah like you have to be able to when it's game time when you're between the ropes like it's

Nothing else matters except making birdies. Like, it's so cool seeing, like, guys like Phil Mickelson and Sergio and some of these guys who, you know, I grew up watching that are still competing. Like, dude, to see, like, their, like, dedication to their craft and, like, their, like, competitiveness, like...

Dude, when, like, I've been, you know, fortunate to play some practice rounds and some stuff with Phil. And, like, dude, he cares. Like, he wants to beat your ass. And it is, like, it's so cool. And take your wallet. Yeah, exactly. It's so cool because, like, you know, this dude who has, is one of the greatest ever and has made more money in majors, like, he could ride off to the sunset and, like, you know,

he's good. Right. And to see like how much he still cares, it's like one of the coolest things. And my, my caddy and I talk about all the time, even when he hasn't, you know, he hasn't played great for the last couple of years and he did, he just grinds and he cares. And so it's just cool. And, but again, it goes to show like,

to get, you know, to this level of, of any type of, you know, sport, like the, the competitiveness that it takes, like, dude, you gotta be crazy. That's awesome. I got, uh, the last question I've got for you. We, we generally go through a list, like three questions. So we ask everybody, I,

I feel like the last one has to go first here. Our view is that every successful person, regardless of your line of work, finds themselves in one of two categories, a thrill of victory or an agony of defeat person. And it's not that anybody enjoys getting beat or anybody doesn't like winning. It's like what motivates you, right? What gets you back to the range? What does all that? And like the prototypical agony of defeat person is Michael Jordan. Like that is, and Tiger to some extent. But it's like he literally had to invent

new slights in order to get him out of the bed in the morning. Phil, for us, has always been the thrill of victory guy where it's like staring 285 over water and he's pulling an iron like, I think I hit that shot, but I can do this again. It's not the motivation that's negative motivation. He's like, no, I can do that. That's the thrill of victory. In that spectrum, where do you find yourself? Oh, I hate losing, dude. I hate losing. Winning is cool, but God, dude. I put it like

and I kind of wish at times I had a little bit more of that other side because like I talk about with my coach, like I've, and it started in college and when we were like qualifying, like I'm trying to qualify for my team when we had a bunch of studs like Morgan Hoffman and Kevin Tway and Peter Uline, like all these guys.

you know, studs. And like, I just felt like I was trying to get on the team and like survive. I was in like survival mode. Right. And so I got really good early in my golf career at like surviving and I've had to learn how to thrive. So like in a different way, I think there's also like two, like there's two types. There's guys that are good at surviving and then there's guys that are good at thriving.

And so that's kind of a similar metaphor of like, you know, like the thrill of winning versus agony to defeat. It's like same thing. It's like I'll do whatever it takes to not lose. Like and I love winning, but like I hate losing. Like losing is the worst. And so, yeah, I'm definitely the agony to defeat guy. All right. Being from Oklahoma, you can pick your last meal on earth. What would it be?

Now, are we talking like restaurants or are we talking like anything in the world? It can be a restaurant. It could be something your mom makes. I mean, it could be absolutely anything. All right. We're going to go with the restaurants. Oh, my gosh.

Is it tough? Yeah, this is tough. It's tough. We've been fortunate. We eat some good food. So one of the coolest meals I've had in a while that just goes to my mind is... So there's a Cipriani up in New York City right near Central Park. And it's like...

quintessential like old school like you felt like Al Capone was in the court right like it's a it's a nice it's not like a like a hole in the wall it's a chip you're honest it was nice but dude like and I went I was with a couple buddies one of my buddies he works on Wall Street uh he was uh for a golfer another buddy that I met him at the um the Pro-Am in Palm Springs I played with him amateur he's a you know forever banker Wall Street guy and and it was funny because like I

I had always wanted to go to this place. And so I had set up the reservation and we show up and my old school buddy, he's like, you know, 65 years old. We show up and I had made the reservation for the wrong day. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And so, but my buddy, he was like, he's like, Hey, don't worry about it. And he like pulls the GM. He's like, Hey, can we get a table? I'm like,

Hold on a second. Didn't this be done? He goes, dude, for 30 years, I came here three or four days a week. And I'm like, so you're the Al Capone. You're the OG. I was like, I thought I was setting up something nice, and you used to live here, basically. So it's one of those, yeah. Big steak? We had some, like, we split up everything. But it was like, dude, like, pause.

pasta, like it's Italian, right? Like it's just, we had all, it was like a quintessential Italian meal. We had like some different pastas. We had, we had like, uh, some different types of steak. I mean, we had every, it was one of those, there was four or five of us. Your last meal is going to be a real fit. Like you have five, six courses. Oh yeah. And of course I'm a wine guy. So, and, and you know, place like that, you got to start with a martini. And so like, you know, if you're going to do it, you got to touch every level of it. Right. I can appreciate that.

It's a culinary experience. Yeah, exactly. It's about more than just the food, you know. It's like, all right, how's this experience, right? All right, here's your last one. With the benefit of hindsight, now that you are where you are in your career, well-established, obviously very successful, you look back over life. You know, you're involved in this foundation, what you're doing to help kids. If you had it all over to do again, with the benefit of hindsight, you could do something else. Like, what would it be? What would it be like? Yeah, so...

Knowing how the world now works, I've always said that, like, the finance world fascinates me. Well, now you have more interaction with the finance world. This kid from Midwest City, Oklahoma, didn't know about this whole world. And so, yeah, the finance world, like, is super fascinating. It's like the...

Again, like the competitiveness. I mean, it's like chess, like the way that you can utilize capital and move it and all this stuff. And like, it's just, I don't know, the finance world is very fascinating to me, but also the political world is too. I don't...

say I would want to go into politics in a different world, but it is... Well, it feels like every time you open your mouth, somebody's jumping down your throat anyway. Well, like you said, somehow golf has become politics in the last couple years, so I've almost gotten a crash course the last few years, but yeah, it's like...

Finance and politics are super fascinating, and I'm by no means smart enough to go do either of those. You never know. But it was funny. I was in – we had a tournament in Saudi last December, and –

We had a dinner, and we show up to this dinner, and there was a few of us golfers. Basically, they were like, hey, it was after the round finished. I'm like, I'm going to work out after. I was dressed like this. I'm like, can I just show up, or do I need to get dressed up? They're like, no, you're good. Just show up and show up. I see like 50 dudes in full business suits, and I'm like... Like, this doesn't feel like I'm...

And it was like the brass of like J.P. Morgan and like Goldman. I'm like...

Somebody could have warned me about this. Thanks for the heads up, everybody. And what was funny is, so we sit down at all arranged seating. We sit down. I sit next to this dude who was from somewhere around London. He had one of those accents. And so we sit down. He goes, hey, just so you know, you're probably a golfer, right? And I'm like, shocker. And he goes, just so you know, I don't want to offend you. I don't know anything about golf. And I'm like, great. We'll talk about anything else.

And about 30 seconds later, like, because we had, like, nameplates, and, like, he looked, and...

are you that bull riding guy? I'm like, come on. I'm like, dude, I've been recognized as a golfer my whole life. And I just got recognized as the bull riding guy. But like a few days prior, Wall Street Journal had done like a full spread on like, you know, it was like something about like billionaires betting on bull riding or something like that. Not a billionaire, but they talk about me in this, like, you know, basically how, uh,

uh guys like mark lazary and these different guys from different areas of life and business are now in getting involved in bull riding right and so we're talking about it and at the time um long story short uh tko which is a new creative entity that wwe you know is now a part of and so that had just come out and so i'm saying to this you know british guy i was like hey

I'm just a golfer. Apparently a bull riding guy, too. But, like, explain to me why they did this. Like, why did Endeavor do this and Silver Lake Cap and all this stuff? I could give you a real education. Yeah, I was like...

You're the banker. Talk to me about this. He goes, you know, that's what's crazy about this. He goes, sometimes we don't even understand what's going on. So apparently you also don't have to be that smart to maybe be in that world too. That's awesome. Well, Taylor Gooch, thank you so much for stopping by. Good luck, by the way. Yeah, thanks, dude. I appreciate it. It's going to be a good tournament to watch. We're going to come out. We're going to say hello. And hopefully you'll put on a show. All right. I'm excited. I'm excited.

Man, he's a whale of a guy. He really is. Like, he's so much fun. I would love to play golf with him if we ever got the chance one day. You know, I was really hoping he'd ask for some scouting report on RTJ that they're playing this weekend. I thought he was going to. He didn't. He didn't. I mean, I don't feel like he thought we were qualified to get it. Look, I birdied nine once. Fair point. It's literally the only birdie I've gotten that entire golf course. And I took a picture of it. But he was the kind of guy that...

You get to the end of, you know, what is it? You know, expanded interview. And you just got there. Yeah. Like you just got to the point where he understood us and we understood him. Like he's going to come back.

When he comes back, we're going to get like a cocktail rolling and we're going to get, we're going to get to see good stuff. Well, after his whole discussion of how he plays golf with his boys. Yeah. Where he's like, you can take a shot to get an extra shot. Yeah. I love it. Yeah, totally. I mean, he's one of us. This guy is a very, very good guy. Rue Forum. He is here in Northern Virginia playing on the live tournament this weekend. If Typhoid Mary didn't give him some communicable disease. Oh, come on. Don't put that on him. Hopefully he'll finish. Hopefully he'll finish. Don't put that on him. Watch him get sick, dude. Watch him get sick because of Duncan. Yeah.

That'd be tough. I'm just saying. Keep an eye out. I am not the vector. Keep an eye out. Okay, Fauci. So good. Listen, so nice to have you here with us this week. A lot of important topics, a lot of important parts of our show. Like and subscribe to the YouTube. That's how all of your friends can see what it is that we're doing. Check out some merch items. We've got some fun stuff while you're there. And with that, Smug, I think we did it.

I think so. Absolute banger of an episode. Gentlemen, thank you so much, Taylor Gooch. Thank you so much, Senator Joni Ernst. And thank you so much to our listeners. Like Colm said, if you have not yet, go to the YouTube, hit that subscribe. It's more fun in video. So until next time, minions, keep the faith, hold the lining on the lips. We'll see you Tuesday. Stay ruthless.