The 2025 Book Riot Fantasy League Book Draft
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This is the Book Riot Podcast, and Rebecca Shinsky, who joins me today, I'm going to cut you off and say...

This is what we've been doing this for 15 years for. Today is the culmination of so much that we care about. We didn't even know we needed this, right? We built our own boat, paddled our own canoe. We spread our own sheets. That is incorrect way of framing that. But Rebecca, what are we doing today? We are drafting teams for a fantasy book league based on the new releases of the calendar year 2025. And

And we are going to be competing with Sharifa Williams, who is Book Riot's Executive Director of Content. She is here with us today. Hi, Sharifa. Hello. Thank you for having me. And with Laura McGrath, who you all heard on a previous episode sharing fascinating stats from the world of books and reading with us. Laura is a professor, a data scientist, and probably here to outperform all of us with spreadsheets. Hi, Laura. Hi.

Hi, thank you for having me. This is like a Nerd Olympics, and I'm so excited about it. It really is. So here's how it works. We each have 12 picks, and the books that have to be published in calendar year 2025, the reason we're doing that, we'll get into in a little bit. The Pulitzer Prize for Fiction for 2024 was just awarded, which really signals the end of literary 2024, right? That's one reason we're doing this now. And it gives us a full 12 months to digest. And so the books that have been

published already are eligible. So we do have some data. Some of them have been re-picked. We've seen some sales data and reviews. So that's going to factor into our strategy. Points are available in multiple categories. I'm not going to go through them all here. We are going to make a publicly available spreadsheet where you can make your own list and see what's available. But basically, if you're a finalist,

or long list or win the National Book Award, the Pulitzer Prize, or the Booker, where you fit on some of the Goodreads Choice Awards list, long list or short list, if you got picked by one of the big three book clubs, Oprah, Reese, or Jenna, New York Times top tens, or Obama's list, Amazon's number one, so on and so forth. We're not going to do them all right now. We may talk about them as we explain our picks, why we think a particular book will score in particular buckets.

We are going to do a couple of check-ins through the rest of the year in which we will have a chance to swap some stuff out like other fantasy leagues and sports. We can pick people off waivers and drop people because that is more fun. And then we get to do it throughout the year. And our draft order was, so I've been told, selected completely randomly. And it just so happened that I'm fourth, which is fine.

Sharif will go first and then Laura, then Rebecca, then me. We're going to do it snake style, which means I'll have picks on the turn. So I'll get four and five and then kick it back around that way. And from there, Rebecca, did I cover the basics?

Yeah, you did. And if folks are wondering more specifically how we arrived at these categories and the different point values, there is an episode in the Patreon from a couple of months ago where Jeff and Laura and I talked our way through this. We did it live. How would we plan and score a fantasy books league? So I'll put a link to that in the show notes here. And you can hop over to the Patreon if you want to hear all that.

all the details. But again, as Jeff said, there will be a publicly viewable version of the score sheet that you can make a copy of on your own. So you can draft your own. You can compete with your friends if you want to do that. We won't be putting our titles and scores in the publicly viewable one, but it's just a Google Doc. You can make a copy. Go about your merry way. With that, we're going to do a minute each on strategy here. I'll go last. Sharifa, can I kick it to you first? How did you approach...

What even for four people who care about books, work in books, are interested in a process like this, there's a little Don Quixote impossible dream situation going on here. So how did you tilt at this windmill of prognosticating? Well, I felt a bit like the Kool-Aid man coming through the wall into this whole process. You had no input on how these categories were together or anything. We're like, Sharifa, join us. Okay.

I was like, I'm not like the most data-oriented, spreadsheet-y type person in the world. And I leaned into the Kool-Aid Man chaos of it all. And mine was very much about vibes. It was me having looked at a whole lot of most anticipated lists, weirdly early best of so far lists, anecdotally, just like...

to put together other pieces of content for the site and trying to recall some of the titles that stood out as appearing perpetually on these lists. And then once I got through that process, it was a little bit more surgical and,

Looking through some of the buzzier books that have been discussed, some books that I've seen all over socials, that sort of thing. But it was definitely like I did not, other than listing things, I did not spreadsheet. I did not do anything like that. You didn't do like, this has a potential point value of 78 because I think there's a chance in these nine categories. There were no numbers involved in my process. Yeah.

Professor Laura McGrath, you're more data-oriented than the rest of us. Did you peel off your mask and just get to your calculator that lives in your head? Or are you all on vibes? Or how do you, what do you bring to the table today in terms of strategy and analysis? How are you approaching this?

So I'm in between. I am kind of half categories and half vibes. So I was fairly rigid. Mr. Spock it is. Okay. New nickname, Mr. Spock. Half human, half Vulcan. Yes. I was fairly rigid in the categories that I asked myself to stick to because pick

Picking 12 was so unwieldy to me and so just extremely overwhelming when I was sifting through just the intensity of this calendar year. So I split my list between six works of fiction and six works of nonfiction. So that was my first top level strategy.

And from there, I split up within each category. So I picked two literary novels. I picked two commercial novels. And I picked two debuts to try to represent the debut novelist.

And then within nonfiction, I also gave myself categories. So I picked a big history. I picked a work of cultural criticism. I picked a work of biography, current events, a celebrity memoir. And then this is kind of my dark horse category. A reader that I feel I understand very deeply is the white, well-educated, liberal to progressive suburban mom,

And this is like the same sort of reader that powers Emily Oster and Dr. Becky and Jonathan Haidt. And so I picked a book in that category. I think you could do worse than focusing on that reader writ large, Laura, to be honest with you. Really, I think she is under considered in our conversation. And I have no personal investment in that category whatsoever. That's really interesting. Rebecca, how about you? We do this a lot and we've never tackled something like this.

I made a big list of 100 titles that I thought might be contenders for this. And then rather than try to assign them all the specific point values that we're going to do in the score sheet, I did a broad. Do I think it's an award contender? Do I think it'll make best of? Do I think it's a sales contender? A couple others. And I looked at 10.

titles that rang multiple bells there. And the ones that had the most check marks weren't necessarily the ones that felt right to me. So then I did some vibes. Do I really think it's going to do that? Or does it just look good?

on paper. And then I got third in the draft order and a lot of my dreams for the first round were also dashed. You and I did commiserate a little bit because we're not used to at least, we're used to one of us being pissed off about the draft order. We're not used to both of us being pissed off or not pissed off, frustrated with, but

That also presupposes a level of confidence in one, two picks that I don't know that's warranted, Rebecca. So maybe I will let myself off the hook by taking a number one overall draft pick that doesn't turn out to be anything. My strategy was much like I do for the it books where I look at catalogs. So I kind of treated it month by month like it books, right? I just pulled things as I saw them that I would have picked and considered for it books.

What I did do a little bit differently for those who've listened to that regularly is the Stephen King's Allie Hazelwood, Emily Henry's, which gets sort of an emeritus status in that, I brought back into the fold because they can still score points here. I didn't do much in the way of ranking because I don't know where things are going to go. I do have on not quite as detailed or specific as Laura's, but I have a sense of I don't want to win with

12 books that are all Reese picks, for better or worse. That's not what I'm looking to do here. Something other than that's about it. That's about the only thing. And that's not the shot at Reese, but there's a version of this is just pick the books that are upmarket commercial fiction that could do some crossover.

and maybe a few of them get, you know, if you can find one or two that are Pulitzer contenders or you get lucky some other places. I didn't find that to be that interesting. So I like what Laura did, and I think in future iterations we may put some constraint so that the list is a little more interesting or could be a little more interesting. We don't find ourselves needing to sort of be on our own recognizance not to do samey-samey-ness all the way down the road. Okay, with that, we're going to do our first sponsor break, and we're going to get into it.

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Before we get into it, Jeff, I just want to tell folks, we're not going to give a ton of detail about each title because we're going to be talking about 48 books. And there may or may not be a complete list of these books in the show notes. The Patreon members will definitely get a complete list, but y'all are on your own reconnaissance for the Googles. With that, Sharifa, you have the first overall pick.

What are you picking and how mad is it going to make me? Oh boy. And why? And why? Sorry. Once I realized I had first draft, I was like, oh my gosh, now I have to rethink what I'm going to choose first because I feel like this is such a privileged space. Right. But I decided that I had to go with a speculative pick because that's my life. So I went with Katopoulos. Of course you did. Okay.

I knew that was going to anger. There were a few picks that I was like, oh, this is going to anger some people. But it did not feel right to pick anything but that. And Kwong is like a powerhouse who I truly believe in. And it felt like the perfect first pick for me.

Rebecca and I were going to pick that one overall, I think. Laura, where was that on your board? Were you looking at Katabasis 2 for a high pick? I was pretty confident that Sharifa would pick that as her first choice, so I had that in my wishful thinking. Okay, don't even think about it. Laura got further down reality acceptance road than we had you. Well, I know Rebecca and I talked about it, and

I thought if Laura had the first pick, you're a little more of a wild card, but I know Sharifa likes Kwong and we've talked about it. So I thought there was a chance it might fall to two, but at four, I have no chance at it there. So that's fine. I think this makes sense. Just one more word in support of Sharifa's picks that angers and I also agree with.

Just from our own listenership, this is the book most people are excited about that listen to the show. When we put the cover reveal on Instagram, it got one of the highest engagement. We have some of that kind of data that, again, that's the BR audience. But I think that's pretty indicative of the full spectrum point system that we have here. Okay, Laura, so you're going to go right to your debut at number two? I think that's a great strategy. I think you should go right to your debut at number two. Right to the debut. Just get off the board. You have to think about it.

No, I wasn't going to do that. I did because I have debuts and because I split fiction, nonfiction equally. I feel like I have to go with a big seller and it's impossible to look at any of the data from any source anywhere and not put Rebecca Yaros' new book toward the top of this list. So I am going with my number one as The Things We Leave Unfinished by Rebecca Yaros.

That's really interesting. So this is not part of the, for those of you who don't know the Empyrean Saga stuff, this is Rebecca Yaros' other career as, what genre is this? Is it a YA rom-com? Do you know off the top of your head? Like what's the genre?

I mean, I think in the, I would call it like a rom-com in the romance space. I feel like the division between YA and adult in rom-coms is pretty porous. It's pretty. Yeah, I think that's an interesting gambit. Did you consider the other Yaros title that was published already this year at number one? Maybe I shouldn't say because Rebecca still has pics. But hold there, don't say.

All right, Rebecca. I think that's not something you and I had on our board that we might be wondering about. So I saw Rebecca's eyes get wide here. So where is the jaw shark going to bite on the boat? Already interesting. I'm going to take Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil by V.E. Schwab. Another big literary speculative fiction crossover. Toxic lesbian vampires coming out early summer. Schwab is a seller.

It's kind of a fun zone for her might get nominated for some things. It will sell. It might end up on a Goodreads list. I don't expect a lot of award nominations, but I think it can ride some of our other categories. New York times notable top 10 might be tough, but Amazon 10 and BNN 10, I think are very possible. And if it's good, I think it has Amazon Barnes and Noble book of the year potential for sure. Maybe an indie next pick. That's one that's on our list.

Yeah, that's an interesting pick. Oh, I'm so excited. Those are on my board. I feel like I can get sales later. I think sales are cheap, weirdly. What I don't know about is how good any award contender novels are going to be. I don't have a lot in my forward reading list.

to go for so I'm going to pick something I've read and loved so I'm going to take audition by Katie Kitamura right here because I think by the time the year is over it could get frozen out but it could be on a whole bunch of end of year lists Rebecca and I have talked about extensively I think I'm comfortable saying it's also your favorite novel of the year so far yeah it is yeah so far and I don't know Shreve or Laura where you guys are on this but Riverhead title commercial

Also high literary. If this is published by an indie press, it feels a lot more arty than it is.

But I really like this book, and I think it's going to be around. I think I may already get to pick up some points in terms of profiles and maybe some adaptation things coming down the pike. Already a mini controversy about her talking about how much she spends on lip gloss in Vulture Magazine. I'm not sure I'm going to get some points on it. I totally missed that. You can miss me with talking about how much anybody spends on lip gloss. Right, yeah. Anyway, I'm also horribly biased because I interviewed her, and she complimented me on my questions, which is the easiest way to get me to be honest.

a complete Sika fan for the rest of time. So Sharifa with, oh, I get to go. I'm sorry. I forgot to get to turn. Okay. I want this on my board. It may be too high, but I don't care right now because I got audition, which I'm thrilled by. I'm going to take King of Ashes by S.A. Cosby right here.

which is the new thriller, I guess, from an author who's had quite a trajectory. The print run for this book is, I think it's twice as big as any print run he's had before. Early reviews are very good. The setup sounds great. Someone goes back home and their brother's got into a mess and he has to get him out of it. I love a story about someone cleaning up their family mess and maybe doing some moderate to light crimes on the side.

I think the industry is ready and willing and interested. He has appeared, I believe, before on Obama lists. I think this is one that could be on category awards. If it's good, the end of the year awards from the major retailers like to have a big thriller, to have a big genre. If this sells pretty well and is reviewed pretty well, I think I've got a lot of points down the road. I'm not going to get it as the best selling book of the year. I don't think it has major award potential, but in sort of the popular award categories,

I think there's a lot there. So that's King of Ashes by S.A. Cosby is my second pick. All right, Rebecca, then that picks it back to you.

This might also be too high, but I got surprised in the first round. I think I'm going to pick up the dream hotel by Layla Lalami. It's already got, sorry, Sharifa already got a big book club pick. It lives in that literary spec fix zone. It's very well written, got a lot of heat. There were some profiles and I think there is award nomination potential. I'll be really surprised not to see it on a bunch of best of the year lists.

So I'm going to I just want to take that one before anyone else can take it, which I kind of feel like is the name of the game here. I think that's a good pick. Sharifa, that was on your board. That was on my board. I was literally staring at that one. All right, Laura, how much have we screwed up your draft board? Are we picking totally random things to feel like or are these things that you're considering?

These are all things that have been on my list. I've been crossing them all off as they go. So I'm going to take, I'm going to, I'm going to move from my super commercial space into literary space and I'm going to take Ocean Vuong's Emperor of Gladness. Oh,

I think this is an awards contender without a question. I think that this is also a novel that could sell really well. I also think Vuong, I know that we can't really lean too much on this because it's in the miscellaneous, also very random category, but I could see a lot of those miscellaneous like phenomenon categories or like super book talky categories that we've got on our scorecard really going for Ocean Vuong as well. So I'm putting that as my second pick.

It's a good pick. That's a really good pick. And especially when we don't know about the fall literary titles, what's going to be good. But that one's already out. I know the print run's been good. The early reviews have been very good. And his last couple of books have done very well. Has he peaked or is this going to be kind of a new plateau, kind of a leveling up? I think it's a really interesting question there. All right. Rebecca, back to you. No, it's Sharifa. Oh, Sharifa. I'm sorry. Pardon me. Pardon me. Pardon me.

The next one I chose, this is a nonfiction, and it's One Day Everyone Will Have Always Been Against Us by Omar El-Akkad.

And this is one where I like so early on saw so much buzz about this book. I don't think I've seen a book that resonated with so many people and it grapples with a really complex subject. It's about Gaza, of course, and a timely issue. So it feels, you know, this has to win some awards. That feels like Pulitzer nonfiction contender. Yeah. Yeah. That is exactly what I wrote. And yeah,

I had to choose a nonfiction as my next one. So this was a natural pick for me.

I think that's good. I think that's very good. Yeah. Sharifa again, right? I think this could be, I think this could very much be on all the major award list. There's not at this point, I don't know what the political climate was going to be. And that matters as much as we don't think or don't want it to, but I can see a situation where this is on every single best books of the year lists as they round out their nonfiction stuff. Laura, did you have this on your list? I assume that you had this somewhere on your list. Yep. Yep. I did. Yeah.

All right, Sharifa, you get to go again. We Do Not Part by Han Kang. I had to... This was another one. And, you know, it was already a...

winner of the Nobel. So it felt, am I going to make a mistake by choosing something? You know, it's hard when something was already previously published and then it comes to the U.S. and you don't know like how it's going to perform with awards. But I think that it's going to be a very popular, you know, or it is a very popular bestseller. So it felt like a very safe pick.

And this is an author who has a whole lot of clout, who has done a lot of great things in literature. And so it seemed like another one that was just like, it's on all the lists. It seems super obvious. And also I love the subject matter. Yeah, we did this on the pod too. It's really good. It's pretty arty, but I think you do have award stuff all over the place. And again,

It's going to be tricky because I don't think she's eligible for the three big or two of the big ones we have here. It's certainly eligible for, well, no, not eligible for the book. I don't think because in translation from South Korea, but it's going to be on a word list. It's very good. And Pete and the vegetarian sold in her other books have sold. She has the Nobel. I think that's a very good pick. All right, Laura, now you get to go.

Okay, so I'm jumping over to nonfiction now. And again, to offset some of my maybe quirky choices, I'm going with Celebrity Memoir as my number one nonfiction spot.

And I'm going with Dolly Parton's memoir. I think Dolly Parton is universally beloved. And it will be, I think, especially as we see literacy under attack, Dolly Parton's political angle will be particularly relevant with readers. And I just have it written down as Dolly Parton memoir. It's called Star of the Show.

Plus, I think she might ride some new generation love. My daughter is five and is obsessed with Jolene thanks to Cowboy Carter. So I think there's a lot of things going for Dolly Parton right now. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And this one...

Is this like a proper, I mean, she's done some other books before, Laura. Did you, is this like a coffee table book? Is it a proper Streisand-like full-throated accounting? I'm not really sure what to expect with this. I looked at this too. I'm not really sure what to expect either. I'm also not sure what to expect. I'm really throwing my weight behind Dolly Parton as a name who is just, is someone that I just, it's hard not to love her. She's just, she's so delightful. Yeah.

I keep waiting for the Streisand or what was the other one? We had the Britney tell-all Dolly Parton. She may not have it in her repertoire. That's kind of not her. She's sort of relatively positive. Yeah, that's right. Okay, Rebecca. I'm imagining we have some things available to us. We do. We do. Yeah, but I feel like I can pick up sales later. I'm not super worried about sales right now. Sales do seem cheap. So I'm actually, I'm staying in the same zone Laura was in. I'm going Celebrity Memoir. No, don't do it. I'm going to pick up...

Bread of Angels by Patti Smith. I don't know what you got on that. Okay, no, I'm cool. I'm fine. Big Memoir by Patti Smith. Just Kids when it came out, what, like 12 years ago was huge. And it was a four quadrant hit. It sold. It was nominated for awards. It won the National Book Award. She has a huge profile. I think there's an appetite for this. And the people...

who were old enough to be interested in a Patti Smith memoir then are mostly still around to be interested in a Patti Smith memoir now. They're older and have even more disposable income now. Yeah. I mean, also Obama might like a Patti Smith memoir. I think I have a good shot here with Patti Smith and Bread of Angels. Okay. I don't know how my personality became I'm the one that sells out because this is wild. Is it the pandering pick you're going to do here? Well, I mean, sales are cheap, but I can get to...

i could guarantee myself a top tier seller of the year right now and why am i not doing that why well the answer is i am doing that i am going to take sunrise at the reaping right here because i get adaptation i get the sales

I don't know that my other thought about where to go for sales is going to have a lot of best of the year, pick of the year. But people freaking love this book. My kids loved it. Everyone I've talked to has loved it. And it's sold like gangbusters. And

I think it would be silly not to grab it with my fourth, just my third pick at this point. So I'll take Sunrise at the Reaping, Reapin', Sunrise at the Reapin', that's by Dolly Parton. That's the country version. Yeah, by Suzanne Collins, which is the second prequel to the original Hunger Games trilogy. Then from there, I think I want to go Award Hunting. But where do I want to go? Oh, I know where I want to go. I'm going to take the, believe it or not,

Just the sophomore novel from Angela Flournoy, The Wilderness, which comes out this fall from Mariner Books. A huge deal on this and another book. It's got the prime September 16th release date, followed up to a really terrific Turner House release.

I know you're going to be surprised to hear it's about friendship, family, and home. I know that's always surprising to hear in these upmarket commercial literary fictions, but it's about a group of friends from the late 2000s into the 20s, young adults, grown women, tech, race, family dynamics. I trust her to do this very well. She was a finalist already for the National Book Award.

We're going to get a, could we get a New Yorker profile of what happened to Angela Flournoy in Hollywood? Because that's where she's been for like the last 10 years, trying to do that stuff. I'm really excited for this book personally. And I think it's got all kinds of the, I think Jenna or Oprah or Reese could all pick this up. So I think this is probably my biggest all-rounder. Could do almost anything, but of course then could maybe do nothing as kind of which is our expected outcome for most novels. So that's The Wilderness by Angela Flournoy coming out September 16th.

All right, Rebecca. Okay. I think I'm going to take The Buffalo Hunter by Stephen Graham Jones. It's been selling. Yeah. And it's good. And he'll end up on a bunch of best of year lists and he might get some genre award nominations. I feel pretty confident about that one. I was hoping to get it. I'm not sure that I thought I would take it this early, but we're, you know. It's an author on the rise and a genre on the rise. And it's good. We're a third of the way through here. Yeah, you could do worse.

Good pick. All right, Laura. Now are you picking your debut? Is it debut time? How long can you hold yourself? You're going to pick it last? Okay. You can get it at the very last, I'm sure. I feel that there will not actually be competition for these debuts. I'm going with the things that are competing. And this is, I'm going for another sellout choice. That's fine. We're in a safe space here. We're trying to win. And I'm taking Great Big Beautiful Life by Emily Henry.

I'm really shocked that we got this far without Emily Henry making it to the top of this list. But it was between Henry and Taylor Jenkins Reid, which I'm sure we'll get to soon. I have this feeling that the Blue Horizon women in space flight may actually hurt Taylor Jenkins Reid. Because I didn't think about that. I'm going Emily Henry. Oh, no, Katie, what have you done to my...

Yeah, it was bad for women and maybe also bad for Taylor Jenkins Reid. And internal combustion engines. Yeah, bad for everyone. Okay. So I'm taking Emily Henry and that's that. All right. And we don't...

There's a version of this where we just, that was number one overall. And we kind of don't want to because it's a little obvious, but we're not going to ding it. We're not digging you, Laura. I would take it next. I would probably take it next go around. I think that's the one. I mean, you did just take Sunrise at the Reaping. Well, I hope I'm already going to notice that. Me being gracious was supposed to cover up for that. The bluegrass sensation. You come on my podcast and call out my rhetorical strategies. I don't know how this is happening.

You know, I'm just so delighted when we have guests and they are kind of fundamentally on my side. I'm like 0 for 50 on guests taking my side.

It's amazing. It's an incredible performance by me. Okay, where are we then? Back to you, Rebecca. No. I know, back to Sharifa. Back to Sharifa. It's me. I'm realizing as everybody was talking that I really did not focus on bestsellers, so I have to choose something that is at least... She's flying. At least get in there a little squeaking in. But this one is Sola by Allegra Goodman. It's one of those books that I, you know...

I probably wouldn't have ever picked up to read myself, but it's already a Reese's Book Club pick. And I kept seeing it. And it was again, it has one of those topics or subject matters where you're just like, well, yeah, I can see a lot of people being really interested because it sounds smart. It's a 16th century story, but it's also about a woman finding herself. So it kind of crosses categories. And I think that

that it is popular and commercial enough that it might do something that some of the other books on my list don't do. Well, you guaranteed the five points for the Reese book. That's right. And I think it's essentially a lock to make the long list because of that in historical fiction for Goodreads. So there's 10 right there.

And guaranteeing yourself 10 is not an easy task outside of a very handful of these. So I think that's pretty wise there. I tried. All right. Saritha again. Oh, right. It's me again. Yeah. The snake draft is really messing with me.

I'm actually really glad because now I get to choose something that I am less certain will be a commercially successful book. It's Black and Blues, How a Color Tells the Story of My People by Imani Perry. And I mean, Imani Perry is so prolific and so profound and is, I think, so beloved in

that I have to imagine that this book, which I've already heard a lot of buzz around, of course, in like nerdy bookish circles, but still those count for sure. You bet they do. And Perry is just, I just want to root for her all the time. So that's my big reason for adding her to my list. Yeah, that makes sense. Laura?

Okay, this is my award-hunting novel. I'm going to go with Flashlight by Susan Choi, which will be out shortly.

I love Susan Choi. I loved Trust Exercise. So I think we'll expect to see her on a number of these best of lists. I think we can see her on a number of the award lists. Macmillan putting out this book, they're calling it a profoundly moving epic that blends a tender family portrait with a haunting examination of the Korean diaspora. So I hear that and I think Pachinko. I think Adaptation Potential. I think Obama list.

This is a coming of age story and it is a sweeping family epic. I mean, and by an already award-winning novelist, this to me feels like it is an across the board. So I'm going with Flashlight by Susan Joy. That's a really good pick, Laura. I had that. I thought I might be able to get that down the board, but sadly, alas, you took it from me because these are all mine and you all are taking them. That's what's happening. Yeah.

It's me. I'm going to take Deep Cuts by Holly Brickley. I think we're looking at sales. We've already got adaptation news and the qualifier here is that there has to be like actual movement on an adaptation. But this thing had a cast like four seconds after the book came out and it's Austin Butler, which is going to be amazing. I think we're looking at some best of lists, definitely some popular stuff. I'm

I'm not really going to hold out for award nominations, but I think I can rack up some points even without the awards with Holly Brookley. The adaptation is worth 12 points by itself, just for people who are listening out there. Okay, me on the turn. Let's see. So I can get two, and it doesn't matter the order, so I don't need to be persnickety about it. I think here is where I need to go down the list a little bit and pick up something that

I don't know what to expect. I don't know what Adam Johnson's profile is right now, but he has major awards, very well-known author. And his new book, The Wayfinder, which is coming out this fall, is doing the speculative lit fic thing, maybe even more pulling into speculative. It's going to get a huge release soon.

And I have no idea what to make of it, but this is a little bit in the Laura camp. I just kind of want to be in the Wayfinder by Adam Johnson tracking business for the year. And so this is a good way for me to do that. So that's the Wayfinder by Adam Johnson, and I don't have it hyperlinked here. I'm guessing not. Did any of you even consider this as a pick? No, no, I did not. I think it was competing with no one. Okay, which is fine. I don't mind about that. But that's the Wayfinder by Adam Johnson is my turn. So there you go. Did you just do two? Or is that just one? Did I just pick one? Eight.

Okay, yeah, I do have another one. You're right. I'm looking at my spreadsheet. I have another one there. All right, so then from there, where do I want to go from? I don't know anything about this book, except that it was a huge deal, and I don't know anything about YA,

But there are Goodreads categories in multiple best of years, and they often get rolled up together. But apparently, Sharifa, maybe this is more on your radar, even though it's not, I don't think you're into YA. Oathbound by Tracy Dion, D-E-O-N. Do you know this book? It's hugely popular, that series. Hugely popular. The third book in the legend-born cycle, and I would be lying to you if I wasn't just reading straight off of Goodreads about it. It came out in March 11th.

already, but I think it's going to be one of the big selling books of the year in that space. And I want something in that space. So I'm taking Oathbound by Tracy Dionne, which I'm sure is definitely how she pronounces her name. No notes from her on Tracy Dionne being her name. Okay. I got that. I got something that wasn't just for old people like me. I think that's a good one. The cool kids do it, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Let's see. So we're like about halfway through here. This is my sixth. I'm going to take Playworld by Adam Ross. Award hunting. I like it. I'm award hunting. I'm also best of hunting. This book didn't ring my bells and I was like the only person in my internet, at least, who didn't love it. I saw it all over the place. It also was selling quite a bit when it first came out. Long awaited. There was a huge profile of him in New York Times Book Review. Yeah.

Yeah, I think I'm scoring some points here. Also, it's kind of about the entertainment business. I wouldn't be surprised to get some kind of adaptation news by the end of the year. Maybe it's even, I don't think it's on a Goodreads list. It's too late for it to be in a book club. But I think there's some good middle-of-the-road hay to be made of Playworld. Okay.

Laura, how's your list looking? How are you feeling? Feeling good? Feeling strong? Okay. I'm feeling okay. I'm going nonfiction and I'm going with name brand nonfiction in the big biography category. I'm going with the new Mark Twain biography. There it is. Cherno has entered the chat. He is. He's here. Hey, I also just want to know how this does. I mean, as someone who's in literary biography, it's hard to just follow someone like Ron Cherno. You know, there's obviously a real...

pay off to doing that. But I'm just I'm curious about how many people are invested in Mark Twain. But you know, actually, probably more people than were invested in Alexander Hamilton back in the day. So we'll see. We'll see how this goes. Perhaps post James, we've got more people that are like really committed to reading. Great point, Laura. I hadn't thought about the Q rating on Twain is higher than Hamilton, just sort of going into the turnout experience. There's no question about that.

How are the academics feeling about Chernow horning in on the literary history space? Is everyone good over there? You're all like, fine, fine, Ron, welcome in. We're happy where you're here.

That is a great question. I do not know. I will have to check in with my friend who is a Mark Twain scholar, Matt Sebold. My perspective on this is more people speaking intelligently about literary history and books and literary history taking up more space in the public conversation is good for everybody. I don't know how the actual Mark Twain scholars feel about this. That's right.

I am not a Mark Twain fan. I hope there wasn't someone out there with, you know, something coming out from Princeton University Press on Twain. They're like, oh my gosh. Oh no. All right, Sharifa, back to you. I've decided to choose for my back-to-backs two debut novels. Oh, bold. It feels like a risk, but I feel good about these picks. So Good Girl by Aria Ubber.

is my first one and this was the first one where i was like yeah i think this is a strong candidate for a debut novel and this seems like something i mean this is a novel about like by a poet there is an artistry to a poet writing a novel i think that it's sort of like honey to awards committees sometimes that the character the main protagonist is an artist herself

We don't get a lot of stories about rebellious young Afghan women in Berlin. That's such a fresh and...

and new and wonderful thing to have in literature. So I feel like this is kind of a standout this year. And it's buzzy. It's cool. I saw a lot of cool Instagrammers talking about this. So that's my first one. Good girl. And then my next one is When the Harvest Comes by Dunn Michelle Norris.

And I did not hear a whole lot about this when the book came out. But if I recall correctly, it got a pretty significant publishing deal. And there's a lot of critical acclaim around it. Maybe this is another like,

book for book nerds pick, but I mean, Norris has a lot of literary acclaim. And as a fellow literary media editor, I was, you know... You gotta take it, right? You know, I gotta choose you. That's right. I don't think I'm too biased here, though, because she already has a lot of critical literary success. Okay. And so was that two? You did two? Yes, that was two. Okay. Okay.

All right. On the swing, Laura, it's back to you. Okay. Well, now that Sharifa has gone in the debut space, I kind of feel like I need to get there too. Okay. So I picked two debuts. I'm just going to go with one right now. And I picked Trip by Amy Baradale. I don't know if you all have seen much information about this. I did not even see this. Tell me about it.

It is. I found this book in the Publishers Marketplace Buzz Books catalog for the fall. So this is going to be one of our big fall debuts. And I gravitated toward this one because of the sort of inside baseball of the agent and the editor and the publishing house. Oh, no, Laura. Tell people about that combo. Why do that? Why do that? Oh, this is...

by it's being published by FSG. This writer, Amy Baradel, was represented by Susan Gollum, who is an agent whose taste you certainly know of, even if you don't know her name. She's represented just some like small people like Jonathan Franzen and Rachel Kushner, for instance. I just, if you're talking about a debut literary novel, I trust Susan Gollum to know how to pick them.

And this is also being edited by Mitzi Angel at FSG. And so this is just a really excellent combination. Angel is, I forget her exact name.

her exact job at FSG. I want to say she's the publisher at FSG. So she's not, she's not personally working on a ton of books every year. So this is like big people behind the scenes that are really gunning for this book. I believe that there will be a lot of clout behind it, even if this writer is someone who's is new to us. It's a road trip novel as well. And so I'm just really excited to see what this book does.

That sounds terrific. Now I'm excited to read it. I hadn't even heard of it. Oh, good. I mean, I actually know. I was not paid. I don't know any of these at all. Laura might be out querying right now. So take that with all. I take that back because I think one experience that those of us who have done this have had that if you haven't as a listener done, is that once you're looking at catalogs, your eyes start to like.

and freeze and a literary debut in a catalog, it needs something to catch it. And so your filter is really interesting to look at it that way because in Edelweiss, you don't see the editor, you don't see the agent. So I feel ashamed that I hadn't thought to look for those things, but I'm now going to steal that into future drafts. All right, Rebecca. I don't need to talk all about this, but I'm really glad

Okay, so it's being pitched as a humorous odyssey of a newly dead mom traveling through the afterlife, trying desperately to relay a message through a group of distracted mediums and death scholars attending a conference in Nepal to save her son who is literally and figuratively lost at sea. I need to see this. She's so excited. I need to see this. It's speculative as well as... Oh, is that speculative? You don't say. Yeah, okay. I just...

I mean, there's some really great things. And I, yeah, so I'm really pumped about it. Also, just to say Mitzi Angel, you might know the titles that she's edited, including some books by Sally Rooney and Ben Lerner, right? This is just, you know, there's not a lot that I think we can say, like, really leads to a debut breaking out. If this was a science, I would be making a whole lot of money telling people what that science is. But I just...

These are people that are putting their reputations on a line for this new writer, and I trust these people. And their imprints, resources, and dollars, too. That's the other thing that follows when you get the triangulation of the big players in these places. The push follows in all the ways the push falls. Okay, that's going to lead me to take a weird book next, but Rebecca, in the meantime, don't take it.

Yeah, I'm going to take Hunchback by Sao Ichikawa here. This was on a bunch of most anticipated lists. It was listed for the International Booker last year. So it was published outside the U.S. first and translated. It's like it being in translation can work for and against me in different categories here. But I think this has lots of acclaim, possibility, New York Times list, PW list. That might be it.

I don't know if this is going to stay on my board all year long, but I feel I've read this. I really liked it. And I'm just going to see where we go with that one for now. I feel like we're in the zone where we can start making some interesting picks. I'm going to go with Hunchback. Yeah.

I'm still going to get to pick up a couple of AAA titles. And Laura, I don't remember the author's name you just mentioned for Trip, but from your description of it, it sounds like the author I'm going to pick is what they want that author to be. Because I'm going to go ahead and pick Patricia Lockwood's new book, Will There Ever Be Another You?, which is sort of same in that zone. And Sharifa, have you seen the cover of this book? I have not.

Do yourself a favor and Google it while we're there because I feel like you will appreciate the cover of this book for an interesting reason. But not just to you, but it's a cool cover. Lockwood has made literary strangeness mainstream. We were on Lockwood early, Rebecca, like super early. And so no one is talking about this. Did okay, but then got some major award buzz and sales at the end of the year. This sounds really interesting. This woman is...

going crazy maybe, but she's also maybe had her mind stolen. But does that mean that she actually gets to start over with a fresh mind? Does she want to keep her life? Does she want to have all these people and friends in her life?

I don't often see brain shredding in the publisher synopsis for a book. Oh, boy. But when you have Lockwood, you get to do that. And this is on my personal most anticipated of the fall for sure. And this has a chance to do anything you want. It could go nowhere, but it also could do all the things in the categories that we have here. So that's Will There Ever Be Another You by Patricia Lockwood.

Yeah. We're going to have fun fighting over that when we get to the fall new release draft for the Patreon. We very much are. And then from there, I'll go and take Atmosphere. I'll take it here. It's been too long. Even though Laura scared the crap out of me with Blue Origin stuff. Okay. So I paid a four round penalty for taking it. This is going to be a movie. It's going to be a book club pick. It's going to sell extremely well.

It actually sounds more interesting to me than the last couple of reads until I remember that it's about space and people going to space. And I'm kind of off that for political reasons. But maybe this is space is back. You know, maybe we can go back to space and make it cool again. Make it non-cringe again. Make space cool again. Oh my God.

Sharifa, you want space to be cool again. Come on. I do. You can't like what's happened to space. I would put it a little differently, but yeah, I want space to be cool. Sharifa's curious. I have some copy notes for you.

I mean, in a move of deep hypocrisy, I have another space novel. Oh, okay, cool. Yeah, you were just trying to short it, but Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid. I think Rebecca and I for June are going to have a hard time not making it to book of the month. I think I'm going to hide it, just sort of looking at the June titles. There's so much in June. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't heard any, we didn't,

This is a big enough book. I don't know that there's review copies or anything out there yet. I haven't seen any. I think I got a starred review in PW. But I mean, like, Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil is June. King of Ashes is June. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Anyway, so I'm actually pretty glad to get it there, though actually I also feel bad about it. So that's kind of how my draft is going. So I think that's fine. Rebecca, now it's up to you. Here's my sellout pick. Yeah. Say You'll Remember Me by Abby Jimenez. Yeah.

All right. All the heads are nodding. It's going to sell. It'll be on some Goodreads lists.

she's a good writer this might end up on a couple of the bigger best of lists if you're if you've only got 15 or 20 spots probably not but if you got a lot of them maybe genre spots you know some of the genre stuff laura's wrinkling her nose at that suggestion just finished reading it oh that's a no bummer it was not my favorite okay well maybe i'm stuck with it but i don't have to stick with it talking about how bad it is laura that was great keep going

Laura's just taking her nagging books. I'm not the audience for this book. So why'd you read it? So why'd you pick it up?

She didn't know that until she was done. My manuscript is due this week, and so I was listening to... I'm also part of the Libro FM ALC club, and it was an ALC from Libro FM, and I wanted to listen to something fun and lighthearted that would make me feel a lot better about finishing my book. You should get a plus 50 points in your final score for joining us for this draft the week your manuscript is due. What an effort. Oh, boy, yeah.

So we'll cut you a break on taking that. No, but we're all going to have these, which no shade, we don't hate any of these authors or books, but they're not maybe the most interesting things to us personally, which is also fine. Both of those things can be true listeners. Right, Rebecca? Right. Right. Yes. Thank you very much for that. Okay. Whose turn is it?

This episode is sponsored by Life is a Lazy Susan of Shit Sandwiches by Jennifer Welch and Angie Pumps Sullivan. Stick around after the show to hear an excerpt from the audio book provided by Hanover Square Press.

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Today's episode is brought to you by Eighth Note Press, publishers of Learning to Fall by Peach Morris. Eighteen-year-old Casey feels stuck. Her friends are off to school, she's stuck at home caring for her mother, and her trifling, raggedy boyfriend cheats on her. But then the unknowing other girl, Imogen, offers an apology, friendship, and introduction to the world of roller derby, and Casey's world finally starts to look a little brighter.

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It's Laura. It's mine. Oh, okay. And this is my, this is me, forgive the metaphor, but this is me diving for the golden snitch. And I'm going with Thomas Pynchon's new novel, Shadow Ticket. That was on my list. I feel like if there were, I mean, I might, I doubt that Thomas Pynchon will like seriously be a Nobel contender, but he might be.

Who else is on the board though? On the board, there is no one currently on the board. I've got one that I might pick last. We also run the risk of like any novel could now be Thomas Pynchon's last novel. He's very old, which is very morbid to say. I would like Thomas Pynchon to keep on writing novels and have a much longer career, but he also deserves a break. I'm creating a special category for you. Go ahead. I'm putting Pynchon here. I'm going to create a special category for you right here. It's Pynchon only.

If he makes a public appearance, it's 100 points. Yes. Okay. That's the actual winning. You're past Nobel if you get to. In fact, that should be worth more than Nobel because the Nobel gets awarded every year. Just run of the mill Nobel winners, a pinch and selfie. And we end this and that's it. Laura Otto wins. That is a golden snitch pick. I love that way of framing. That's a bold move. Bold move. Okay. All right, Sharifa, two in a row.

Well, this is my sort of, I didn't get these picks, so I'm choosing these picks next. Welcome to the game. So Leila Lalami, I didn't get, but I'm choosing another Pulitzer and Fiction jury member, Brian Washington for Palaver. And I actually picked up this title because I was starting to realize that a lot of my picks were being published earlier in the year. And I was like, I need to venture a little bit out. Okay.

I don't have a sense of how much that matters. I know in movies it does, but in books, that's not something I've ever paid attention to. I don't think I have either. It was more of an inclination that I could not be biased in favor of things that were more recently published. But I mean, Brian Washington is a National Book Award 535 honoree and

you know, is out there doing the things. And so there's the name recognition and it seems like a really interesting story about a young gay man in Tokyo. And so I was like, well, I don't think that this is a bad choice at all. I think that this is actually a pretty strong choice, but yeah, like a lot of his books have been really successful and, um,

So I just want to see how this one does.

And my next one is actually one I'm surprising myself with. I also wanted to choose The Buffalo Hunter. And I've really been loving a lot of the indigenous fiction that's coming out recently. And I learned about The Devil is a Southpaw by Brandon Hobson pretty recently. And this felt, you know, something that could be under the radar but surprise a lot of people. Hobson has written books.

many books before this one, but I think that there's something about the story that seems striking, that seems like it could be picked up by a lot of lists and be widely read. It's about a Cherokee artist, and there's a lot of angst and depth to the story. So I don't know a whole lot about it, but I feel like this is going to be a surprising one.

So who knows how those two will do, but I like those. Okay. We're coming down to it. It's pick them or leave them. We're getting close to, you may not get it. If you just out of rounds here, Laura, where do you want to go next? Last I've actually lost track because I don't know where I'm at, but I'm going with a sellout pick and I think that's okay. I'm going with the new Stephen King. You like it darker by Stephen King. And I am choosing Stephen King over someone who I'm shocked. We've had not picked at this point, Dan Brown, um,

I was sitting here looking at Stephen King or Dan Brown, and I went with Stephen King just being more kind of culturally beloved. You know, I'm thinking about the way that he opened his testimony at the Penguin Random House Simon & Schuster antitrust trial. Hello, my name is Stephen King, and I'm a freelance writer. And I love it.

Cool Steve. And I was just rereading some of that transcript. I mean, the judge, Helen Pan, seemed just such a fan of Stephen King as someone who is entirely outside of this world. She seemed in this transcript, even this dry courtroom testimony to be completely starstruck by this guy. So I'm I'm putting Stephen King on my board.

We can do a three-hour pod about why Dan Brown may not get picked in this draft after the show. Laura, if you want to join that, Rebecca and I will be hosting that. You're also welcome to join us the day after the new Dan Brown book comes out, and we will be talking about having read it on release day. Yes, that'll be a good time.

Rebecca, so you're going to pick Dan Brown next, right? I'm not going to pick Dan Brown, but I think I might be picking somebody you were gunning for. So sorry. Not sorry, but I'm going to pick up The 11th Hour by Salman Rushdie. God damn it. You are? I am. That's not a joke. You're actually doing that. Yeah, this is my shot at the Nobel, baby. God damn it, Laura. This is your fault. Sorry. It's a collection of short stories. I think I feel...

Go ahead, Laura. Good choice, Rebecca, in terms of Nobel odds. But I feel like Rushdie was really high on the Ladbrokes list last year. I don't know. I don't know if this one's going to do it. He was. Okay, so this is a quintet of short stories. And so quintet of short stories does not a lot of typically make sense.

But Rushdie, a common fixture on best of lists. And this quintet of short stories is about the last act of life, the 11th hour of life. Rushdie's in this reflective place. It's an old man waiting to die book. It's an old man waiting to die book, which we love. And also like Rushdie,

has not announced that he is retiring, but this feels to me like possibly somebody's last book. Also, just in combination with the other things that have happened in his life in the last couple of years. And so it would be timely for him to drop a book about people reflecting on the end of life and the Nobel Committee to perk up and pay some attention to that. So I'm going to ride Salman Rushdie. Yes.

Man, what's the brattiest pick I could make after that? What's the throwing a tantrum version of the fishing here? You have a pettiness. Yeah. You could have Dan Brown. Don't do that. That's beneath you. Don't do that. We're not picking Dan. Well, Laura, here's why we're not picking Dan Brown. Does it get you sales? What else does it get you? Does it even get you in the top bucket of sales? I mean, Rebecca, that's why we're not picking him, right? Okay, but this man just predicted...

Basically, J.D. Vance killing the Pope. There's that. He predicted a global pandemic, I think, with equal prescience to Emily St. John Mandel. I just, I don't know. I feel like Dan Brown might have his own. Have you been following Dan Brown's personal life, Laura? Where are you on following Dan Brown's personal life? I have not been following Dan Brown's personal life. Okay, well, don't save yourself a Google. It's not cancelable. It's not bad. But...

I think I'm not sure how much the whole world is excited about Dan Brown because... Okay, how much is the whole world aware that Dan Brown had an affair and bought his next-door-south-horse? Well, no, that's not that. I think those of us who know and are Dan Browns, we're going to read it, but also it's been a few years. It's been a few years. And origin wasn't what it was. I'm going to Google it as soon as we get off this call. I'm Team Laura here. I think a good Dan Brown is a great read. And if it's a good Dan Brown, it's on the New York Times Top 100.

you think so was origin on the top but top 100 no but origin was not a good dan brown when was the last good dan brown angels and demons which was what right years ago yeah there you go 20 years okay i'm just saying yeah all right it's called the secret of secrets like how could this not be i haven't even picked anything this is my version of being a brat i can't just but for dan brown in his defense

I mean, I'm not going to put him on my list. I chose Stephen King for a really good moment or good reason. I don't feel like he may have, at least in my little corner of the literary internet, he may have already had his viral moment in terms of, you know, people reevaluating his ability to predict world historical events. The best thing that ever happened for Dan Brown's reputation is romanticism. And I'm not kidding about that. I need you to say that. Well, just in terms of the...

big popular book that's not extremely literary, he's not the standard bearer for that anymore, that people who want to take shots at that shit do. Now, people like us have been with Dan Brown for 20 years. He's kind of like

a comfort read in a different kinds of way. Whereas the people that Dan Brown has a new book out, they're going to take shots at Dan Brown. I think people are taking shots at other things right now. I don't think there's any points to be scored, cheap points to be scored like there used to be for so many years. Okay. This is all a way of saying I'm not taking Dan Brown.

But I will be reading that and enjoying it. So you don't have to offend Dan Brown on this show, Laura. Everyone knows. Everyone listening is nodding. All right. I'm hearing back-to-back bratty picks. Yeah, I'm going. I'm not going to be bratty here. I will just, I'm going to do a sellout pick and maybe an awards hunting pick. So I'll take authority essays and the criticism picks.

pile. I think a lot of people are into that book. I didn't really look at historically where it's hard to imagine there being a more signal work of criticism that comes out this year in any field. She's certainly high profile. People on the internet know who she is because she has written some very popular internet things.

This book is good, too. I read it over the weekend. And I think it's going to be around for a while. So I'll take authority there. By Andrea Longstreet. Yeah, Andrea Longstreet. I will say, Zadie Smith has a book of essays coming out later this year. Well, you know what, Laura? That's my next pick. Thank you very much. Really? Yeah.

Alive and Dead, essays by Zadie Smith. Nice. Coming out this fall, which was a discovery to me in doing this draft. I hadn't seen this on the list. Oh, really? Yeah, I didn't know this was coming out. Okay. And her intimations, Rebecca and I read...

sort of late COVID and it was about COVID, which was unbelievable. One of the great sort of audio book discussions we've had in some time, the podcast, not audio book discussions. And if I can get a Zadie Smith book on any list I make ever, it's something I need to do. So I don't know what it's going to get me, but I kind of can't live without it. So Alive and Dead by Zadie Smith. I took up too much time. I'm sorry. I was being a brat like as promised.

I had that on my long list, but I am happy for you. Don't do that. No, don't be happy for me. I don't need that. Let's see. I'm going to take All the Way to the River, Elizabeth Gilbert's new memoir.

For Laura's beloved category of suburban white ladies thinking about their lives. Elizabeth Gilbert has had like a whole journey. I was just looking at Eat, Pray, Love because it turns 20 next year. And we like had a big viral Eat, Pray, Love moment. And then we had a wait, this is a privileged white lady trotting around the world moment. And then I think the world has come back around to liking Liz Gilbert because she's

really done a lot of work on herself and this lives in like the glennon doyle zone she's definitely going to go on those big podcasts and sell a lot of books there's also like the side story where she was supposed to have that novel that like took i think it just took place in russia but the deal got announced around the time that the war with ukraine started and people got mad at her and there's a lot of i don't know there's a lot of energy around elizabeth gilbert she's been on a

She has been on a journey. Probably not awards contender potential here, but sales and best of list. And we'll see. We'll see what happens when it comes out. She's going to get profiled. So I'm just going to take that. So that's your last pick. We should see. No, we have one more. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We have two more. Two more, right? Because it sells one and two. My mistake. Okay. Laura, you get to go again.

Okay, I'm going with my second debut, and it is, this is the space novel. It is To the Moon and Back by Eliana Ramage. And I, this one I also picked because I was thinking about the people behind the scenes and some of the stuff that Ramage has got going for her. I should say I spend a lot of time writing about debut novels in this manuscript that I'm just finishing now, so I was partly, like, interested in testing out some of these theories. Yeah.

So Ramage is an Iowa grad, but this is a, it feels like a really fun upmarket, but kind of following the Iowa trajectory. Also probably like really great on the page. About family belonging, heartbreak and wonder spanning three decades and several continents to tell the story of one young woman's relentless quest to become the first Cherokee astronaut.

And the irrevocable ways her ambition alters the fates of the people she loves most. So we had the sad women in space moment. But this has recalled for me my favorite women in space moment of the past several years, which is in the winter. One of the shows that my husband and I binged and loved was For All Mankind on Apple TV.

And this feels like that to me. Like, how could we have women in space done really well? Ramage has a lot going for her. This book was represented by Meredith Cavill Simonoff at the Gurnert Company. I really love Meredith's taste, and so I'm excited to see that. And this has been sold to Margot Schickmanter at Avid Reader Press.

And I think there's just a lot that could be really cool. I think Meredith Caffell-Simonoff also represented or represents She Sold Chain Gang All-Stars by Kwame Adjei-Brenya. And this book kind of feels a little Chain Gang All-Stars-y to me. That wasn't his debut, of course. He did the debut story collection beforehand. But it kind of feels like it might be in a similar space in terms of just really excellent on the sentence level, but also this really propulsive narrative moving forward.

So I want to put that as my second debut choice to the moon back Eliana Ramage. I feel like such an idiot for not thinking that you would look at agents. Of course, I mean, that's so smart. I mean, you're doing that in publishers marketplace, right, Laura? That's how you're doing that. I am. I am. Yep.

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It looks fun. I'm going to go see it. I don't know about you. I think you should. I think you should. Again, check out janeaustinwreckedmylife.com. And thanks again to Sony Pictures Classics for sponsoring this episode. Today's episode is brought to you by Avon Books, publishers of Along Came a More by Alexis Daria.

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I love the story you'll be rooting for from start to finish. So let's get into it. We've got Eva Rodriguez. Her husband crushed her by saying he needed to chase his quote unquote dreams, whatever that means. She just wants to have fun now. But then you get Roman Vasquez. He's magnetic. They meet at a wedding party. Secrets collide. Emotions erupt.

Next thing you know, we've got sizzling, sexy, impossible to put down romance, which is what we wanted. Make sure to pick up Along Came a More by Alexis Daria. And thanks again to Avon Books for sponsoring this episode. All right, Rebecca. Nope, back to Sheree. Gosh darn it. Everything is tuberculosis. The history and persistence of our deadliest infection by John Green. And I mean,

Who has a bigger fan base than John Green? I feel wholly unqualified to talk about John Green. Like, I don't want his fans to come at me because I said something out of turn, but I know how popular he is, and I feel like this has to place in a Goodreads Choice Awards at some level, because...

I mean, it already has massive readership and ratings that are out of the roof. So it seems like a shoe-in for that at least. And I don't know, I would never have expected this subject from John Green, but, you know, it's surprising to me. It's interesting. And I think that it's going to do something somewhere. Yeah.

You and I are about 10 years too old on Green. Yeah. I mean, that's where I'm coming from, too. I just I never got on the John Green train, but it seems like he's wildly popular for a lot of good reasons. Yeah.

And then my next one is indulgent because it's an author. I love Karen Russell, The Antidote. And this is wondering when somebody would take this. I, you know, I was surprised that I didn't think about it.

Right away, because I remember noting that Karen Russell had a new book coming out and being really excited about it and thinking it was going to do really well. And it was like on, I think, Time's most anticipated list, just one of the lists that it was on. So I know that this is something that is like Russell is well known, has won awards before, is an amazing writer. And I have to believe that this is also going to do something. Yeah.

Yeah, Rebecca and I read it, and I think we were B-plus-y on it. Hi. I haven't read it yet. That doesn't mean anything for its pick. We may be underselling it because of personal taste. I think we were cooler on it than most of the takes that I've seen. So I think Sharif is making a smart move here. That's a good value pick. I agree. We'll see.

All right. It has to be Laura. I know there's only one direction you can go from Sharif, at least, so I can keep that straight. Okay, so I'm going to do my last two picks are going to be nonfiction. And this one is I just actually read like the title and the logline and I don't know too much about this. So it's perhaps a risk. But I was thinking about books that would kind of satisfy our current political moment. And this book is called Placeless Homelessness in the New Gilded Age by Patrick Markey.

And what I've read of this book, this just seems to me like one of my favorite works of nonfiction ever, which is Evicted by Matthew Desmond. And this feels like it is targeting the same precise place, which is an overlooked social phenomenon that doesn't get a ton of airtime in a very kind of politically fraught environment where, you know, I'm sure all of the books about tyranny are going to sell wonderfully and that will be great. But I'm

I think this sort of social, political, deep dive into a particular problem, not dissimilarly to Evicted, could be the sort of book that changes the way that we think about class and economics in the United States for a while. So that's one of my nonfiction picks. Good one. Placeless. Yeah, I'll say it again. It's Placeless, Homelessness, and the New Gilded Age by Patrick Markey.

I'm going to pick up The Afterlife of Malcolm X by Mark Whitaker. Also big nonfiction. This year is 100 years since Malcolm X was born and 60 years since he was killed. So I think we're going to have a lot of Malcolm X in the news. And the book is about his posthumous father.

legacy. So that I think could go either way. Like it could be really interesting exploring the cultural and social impact of Malcolm X in his life and work or people could be like, no, just give me a big Malcolm X biography, which we've already had. So I'll be keeping my eye on what happens with this one after it comes out. But I think if it lands well, we're looking at awards potential and some of the higher brow best of lists. And you know, I'm happy to ride with that in the 11th round here.

You know, I didn't realize I was so busy being torqued off about picking fourth that I didn't realize that I would be doing my last two picks at the same time and I'd be the first one to get out. So I don't know if there's any strategy to be had here, but it's time to pick or roll with some of these. I'm more looking about what am I going to be mad that I don't have or feel like I don't really know. There's nothing I'm super passionate about, to be honest. I don't know where you guys are feeling about your list now. So I'm going to take some high variance stuff, I think.

And in a weird way, I feel like the second novel of someone who had a big hit is easier to forget. And so I'm going to take Cursed Daughters by Oinkan Brothwaite, which she wrote My Sisters is a Serial Killer. Great book. Which was a huge... I know you liked it. I liked it. We liked it all the way around. It's so much fun.

At this level, I'm not really caring about the synopsis at this point, where it's a second book by an author that does something really interesting, polygenre, fraught and different. This comes out, I should have this in my notes, but I don't. Let's see. It is out November 4th from Doubleday, and the Knopf-Doubleday move on this could be pretty interesting. There may be some reincarnation here.

I don't know what's going on. There's a lot of dead people that aren't dead on our list, I feel like. That's what's in. The undead. The afterlife. That's the hottest thing for me. Sounds about right. Being undead doesn't sound so bad some days right now, I gotta tell you. And then from there, I think I'm going to pick up kind of an all-rounder that Catherine Newman's last book, Sandwich, was kind of an all-round hit. Commercial seller, book club, got on some best of the year lists. Her new book is called Wrecked.

And it's also about family dynamics in New England, but there's always an appetite for the Anne Neapolitano, Bonnie Garmus kind of range of elevated family fiction.

And I think this is going to do very well. It's October 28th from Harper. I could see any of the book clubs. I could see it be best book of the year on some of the lists and then sell quite well. So that's kind of my Swiss Army, get a lot of points in different categories, wreck by Catherine. And I'm out. I'm done. You're out. How are you feeling? Terrible. Horrible. This is the worst. Why do we do this?

No, and actually great and fun. But yeah, it's so hard. It was harder to even, the picking was harder than I thought. I thought that finding the long list was hard. But anyway, we can talk about summaries at the end here. Go ahead, Rebecca. Okay.

I think I'm going to go out with Joyride by Susan Orlean. This is a creative memoir. It's about her writing life, how she found her perfect. Which is your favorite topic. Don't you love this? Writers writing about writing? This is your favorite. This is on brand for you. People love this. And it's comped to Ann Patchett, Elizabeth Gilbert, Stephen King's On Writing, The Creative Act by Rick Rubin, A Swim in the Pond in the Rain by George Saunders, and Doris Kearns Goodwin.

So there's potential here. And people love Susan Orlean kind of writing about anything. I find her very charming. Lots of folks do. I think this is going to be on some faves of the year lists. It will likely sell very well. Maybe not so much award potential, but you kind of never know because Susan Orlean is a comer. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe just in that zone, folks like smart people who have had creative success talking about

And it's been a while since we had a mainstream one of these. I think Big Magic was kind of the last mainstreamy one, even though Jeff and I both loved the Rick Rubin. Yeah, I think that's smart. That's a good pick. Laura, this is it. All right.

This is my, this is like a very dark horse pick. This is for my category of all of the moms that I interact with every single day. Oh, my mom's been here for 40 minutes since I ever heard about this. I've been anticipating this highly. Who do not necessarily read fiction, but will make time to buy a big book about motherhood or, or anything.

how to raise better children or how to not lose our minds. And so I'm picking a book called Having It All, What Data Tells Us About Women's Lives and How to Get the Most Out of Yours by Corinne Lowe. Corinne Lowe is a professor at the University of Pennsylvania. This to me is like Emily Oster, which is, I mean, the, you know, the Emily Oster has this lock on a very specific demographic. And that is a demographic that buys books.

And so I'm interested in seeing that. I'm thinking about that with Jonathan Haidt or even like Virginia Soul Smith. I think I said all of this at the top of the show. But this is an interesting book about data and how we can live our lives better or have it all or probably not because I don't think it's economically feasible to. But anyway, I'm really excited to read this book. And so I'm excited to watch what it does. It's a really interesting idea. I like that one. Okay, Sharifa, bring us home. All right, well...

I apologize if I get the pronunciation of this author's name wrong, because I did not know that I would be going to this title, but here I am. I am choosing Search's Selfhood in the Digital Age by Vahini Vara. Yes, thank you. Great pick. And I just think that with all of the conversations about tech oligarchies and technology in general happening...

AI and everything else and social media and careless people coming out, which I've talked about way too much. But that this is an exploration of

how technology companies have fulfilled and exploited the human desire for understanding connection. It feels like a book of the moment and something that, you know, maybe not a lot of people would have turned to this book in normal life. But because of the way things are right now, I could see this getting a much broader readership.

Yeah, I'm really mad that I didn't take this several rounds ago. I was certain you were going to take this, Rebecca. I'm sorry. Good job, Cherie. I'm happy for it. Unlike Jeff, I can be happy for your success. And gracious about it, too, right? That's what they come here for. Well, that's our draft. I'm just really shocked that no one picked Careless Peoples.

We've had viral moments. We've had good scandals. I wasn't sure what else it was going to do, Laura. I mean, I think I agree with you, but I get the scandal. Do I get any other category? Where is it showing up in any other category? There. And she can't even market it. So everyone else is, though. So.

Yeah, I think one of the big tech platforms suing you to prevent publication maybe should have its own category, a la Pinch and Selfie. We could have had special commendations or awards for that. All right, let's go back through our list. Just tell people where to are and give ourselves a emotional status check, a confidence index of your own pick. Sharifa, since you just wrapped up, why don't we start with you?

We'll go in our original order. Okay, so I chose Catabasis. One day, everyone will have always been against us. We do not part. Isola, black and blues, good girl when the harvest comes. Palaver, the devil is a southpaw. Everything is tuberculosis, the antidote, and searches. And how are you feeling? I'm feeling...

As chaotic at the end as I felt going in. So I guess stasis can be a good thing. Consistency. You know, I feel good about my picks. It's a good list. I like my list. All right, Laura, tell us your books and then where your head's at. Oh, we lost your sound, Laura. There you are. Is there your back now? Okay. No worries. Okay. I'll edit you out. The Things We Leave Unfinished.

The Emperor of Gladness, Star of the Show, Great Big Beautiful Life, Flashlight, Twain, Trip, Shadow Ticket, You Like It Darker, To the Moon and Back, Placeless, and Having It All. I feel like I'm probably half and half of things I feel really confident about showing up on this board and actual total dark horses. Where does that start? Is there a point in your draft board? Is it around seven or eight or is it kind of all over the place?

Yeah, I'm going to be really honest. I did not know. I didn't even look at the latest Empyrean book for Rebecca Yarris because I thought that was solidly in last year. So I was like, all right, new Rebecca Yarris is coming out this year. Got it. I didn't realize that I was pitting new Yarris against... That's how ubiquitous Onyx Storm has always been. There is no non-Onyx Storm. It's always been like that. I know. So I kind of got off on a really challenging... Well, that's the big upset of the whole draft for all of us is that Onyx Storm didn't get picked.

I mean, that's probably the most important. Well, I kind of, I thought I was doing the next Onyx Storm. Maybe I am. Please, Yaris readers, make this the next Onyx Storm. Make this happen. Okay. And it was just an upset because I was being like stupid about it.

I went for preparation probably too late at the end. That's okay. Anyway, so I feel like I'm, there's things I feel really good about on my list, like flashlight, like shadow ticket, and then also some pretty big gaffes, like my Yara. I mean, the Pynchon is your get out of G-card. There's a world in which it doesn't matter. And we get Pynchon at the Met Gala. I'm trying to think what's the least likely amazing Pynchon appearance we could get. Rebecca, how are you feeling? I'm good.

I feel good. I have Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil, The Dream Hotel, Bread of Angels, The Buffalo Hunter Hunter, Deep Cuts, Playworld, Hunchback, Say You'll Remember Me, The 11th Hour, All the Way to the River, Afterlife of Malcolm X, and Joyride. I didn't take as many book clubby big sellers as I thought I might going in. So I'm interested in how that strategy might change or develop over the course of the year and our couple of check-ins. Yeah.

But I feel really good about this list in terms of trying to hit most of the categories where stuff is possible. So we'll see. I'm feeling pretty strong. Great. My list. Audition, King of Ashes, Sunrise at the Reaping, The Wilderness, The Wayfinder, Oathbound, Will There Ever Be Another You, Atmosphere, Authority, Alive and Dead, Cursed Daughters, and Wreck.

I think my wheels came off at around seven. Sorry, my fifth pick. If I'm looking at the top four, I'm like, that makes sense. My order and what I was thinking seems completely opaque to me now in the actual draft process. But that's what happens when the top 16 books are gone and then you're really looking at it. My long list of draftable books is...

I think came in at 80, which was dumb because there's no reason I was going to need 80. So I think I was even looking at too many books like during the draft at that point. So there we go. That's our picks. I think this was a ton of fun. And I do not have any sense of who came out with a good list. I'm not looking at Rebecca's board like, oh my God, look, I'm going to be staring up at that all year. But that doesn't mean anything. Anyone have a sense of who got an especially good draft? I really don't.

I mean, Sharifa has Katabasis right up front and that might just do it for the year. Sometimes I feel like these lists, I mean, these awards and things are so unknowable, though. There are always surprises.

And who knows, but all of these titles are so good. And there are so many, this is a year of amazing books. So it is impossible to out of the giant catalog of great books that are coming out, whittle it down even to a reasonable number of books that might succeed today.

But it looks great. It's really nuts, Laura, when we think about this. Like, we just picked 48 books, and we will not all read all these books by any stretch of the imagination. The average American reads 12 books. There's just so many, like, we just zone out. I'm not even trying to do this. So I like that approach of, okay, look at the agent, look at some other factors about, that just sort of whittles it down. Did you do any other kind of whittling down in terms of how are you looking at your board? Or how did you do it when you were publishers lunching it through the mix? No.

No, I looked at categories. I started with the Pub Marketplace Buzz Books catalogs. That was how I moved from mass down to at least a manageable group of titles. So I think all of these are in the

BuzzBooks lists. But then otherwise, yeah, it was big categories and then gut. And we'll see. We'll see how that works. Big categories and a little bit of data. I guess we'll find out like when the National Book Awards long lists are being announced. I think that'll be the first event here. And we'll work backwards to have our two check-ins happen prior to that. Because once these things start, like once long lists and best ofs start rolling out, our lists are locked. So I think we really have to lock in by like,

The end of August. Yep. Yep. Right when Publishers Weekly is getting ready to do its best books of the year list, probably somewhere right in there.

Laura McGrath, thank you so much for joining us. Sharif, as always, and Rebecca, we can continue fighting about what books we're picking for various drafts over the next summer. You know I wouldn't have it any other way. Shownotesbookriot.com slash listen. You can choose the email podcast at bookriot.com. If you're interested in joining the Book Riot Patreon, there's a link there as well. You're listening to this while I am out, but up next on the main feed, Vanessa and Rebecca will be talking about, I'm sure there'll be plenty of normal book news to talk about, right?

Right. That you may or may not have short form videoed about already this morning. Yeah. It's not like the librarian of Congress got fired or anything. We don't have anything to talk about. Thanks, everybody. This was really fun.

Thanks so much for listening today. We hope you'll enjoy this excerpt from the audiobook edition of Life is a Lazy Susan of Shit Sandwiches by Jennifer Welch and Angie Pumps Sullivan, provided by our sponsors at Hanover Square Press. When things go apeshit bananas, Pumps is my phone call, my partner in crime, my rudder in the storm.

If there's one thing I've learned from my years on this planet, American culture has unrealistic expectations about happiness and balance. We live in a fractured society in which social media filters and AI create a false front. Everyone looks happy, perfect, smooth, and forever young with something the internet calls glass skin.

The messages we internalize, that we should be hotter, richer, more fulfilled, only increase our feelings of inadequacy. The relentless drive toward wellness counterproductively serves to make us feel unwell. The search for total happiness leads to unhappiness. The quest for total balance leads to imbalance.

You know that game people play when everyone goes around the table saying what they would do if they won Powerball for a gazillion dollars? I hate to break this to you.

But even if you won the lottery and paid off all of your student loans, your car and your mortgage, then went on an all-expenses-paid vacation to the Maldives, you might only be happy for a nanosecond before a whole host of other problems cropped up. You'd be in one of those thatched huts over the turquoise waters of the Indian Ocean thinking, I want to be on a yacht in Bora Bora.

As soon as you attain that one thing you thought you had to have or die trying, your mind would create a new void with other unattainable wants and desires. Because that's how the human mind functions. It wants more, more, more.

The latest designer handbag, a bigger house, and the latest iPhone. Hotter sex, new clothes, different spouse, different lips, different face. But so many things in life are out of our control. We get crow's feet. Our parents get old and die. Our children grow from sweet, sweet babies who hide behind our shins and call out for us at night to teenagers who answer, K, when we text, I love you.

Adulthood is the ultimate bait and switch. Our dream jobs turn out to be staring at spreadsheets and answering endless passive-aggressive emails or attending Zoom meetings that could have been emails. The bills, disappointments, and crushed expectations rain down on us like a monsoon.

When I was growing up in South Oklahoma City, my mother had a Lazy Susan, a rotating circular device that holds food, spices, and condiments in the kitchen cabinet. Lazy Susans are famously prevalent in Chinese restaurants where food is set on a turntable and served family style. Some people think Thomas Jefferson brought the concept of the Lazy Susan to America from France.

or invented it for his daughter Susan, who complained that she was always last at the dinner table to get her chicken and gravy. Some say the name comes from the 18th century moniker for servants called Susans. I used to picture adult life as a lazy Susan, a rotating smorgasbord of options and choices, nothing fancy, just something fun and easier to handle and digest.

I don't know why I thought this. My parents never modeled a perfect marriage. My dad, like many men of his generation, most likely had untreated PTSD from his tour in Vietnam. He could be angry and withdrawn, and my mother never found her footing in an intellectually fulfilling career. But they seemed happy enough. My mom read voraciously.

And my dad raised racing pigeons in the backyard. On TV, I saw a lot of mothers who smiled as they joyfully slid pot roasts in and out of the oven. Every show seemed to depict couples who modeled breezy conjugal contentment. I don't know what I thought marriage was supposed to be. Was it Mike and Carol Brady? The kooky antics of Lucy and Ricky? My parents rarely drank.

Yet somehow, Angie and I both married lawyers who turned out to be married to drugs and alcohol and, in Angie's case, sex workers. No matter how I spun it, my life became a lazy Susan of shit sandwiches. The wheel turned and turned, and I always got a grilled turd.