The Real Cause of Your Suffering (& How To Let Go) | Byron Katie | Align Podcast #546
59:27 Share

Byron Katie, thank you for being here. Thank you for making time for this. Oh, gosh, it's just always so good to be with you, Aaron. I wanted to start off with a light lift of a question and ask, is evil real? No. What is evil? What is the concept of evil? Life as we or another human being as we imagine them to be.

We all know right from wrong. It's like guilt is the gift that lets us know, you know, but we can always, you know,

just go back, you know, admit it, apologize, start over, you know, life, life. We're all students here. I'm not the teacher. Life just kind of shows me where to go. What is it the root of every person? If there is a way to put into language the root of the essence of every person, how do you describe that? Love, you know, anything that goes against that.

feels like stress. It's the ego's power over us, you know? It's distressful. It's the maker of stress. It leads us into, you know, a false identification of our true nature. The ego is something that can justify any behavior.

And when it's being so kind and beautiful, it wants someone to see it, talk about it, pass it on. It's just, you know, the ego's world, it's fascinating. It's something that I've come to love. You know, it's like an immature child going, look at me, look at me, I know, I know. And it's to be understood, understood.

and open to and to believe our thoughts is, you know, our stressful thoughts, you know, to believe them is,

It's kind of a magical thing. It's a state of mind that ego requires for us to identify as, I am the one talking to Aaron now, and I'm the one sitting in this chair. How do we differentiate thoughts from truth? One is stressful, one is not.

A feeling. Yeah. Authenticity is, I don't know why people fear it other than, you know, we want to be seen and understood and seen as good and kind or right or, you know, whatever we're seeking from others' opinion of us.

you know, just falling into that identity of what we think that looks and sounds like. You know, it's, I'm so understanding, Erin, and I am just so, you know, da-da, da-da, da-da, you know, all of that, so that you will see me in a specific way.

And at the same time, you could be thinking, she is so full of it. What? What? And I think you're just so enamored, you know, because I'm so enamored with my routine, you know, whatever the ego is perpetuating beyond what is integrity. It's that thing just to live as I am enough and people don't have to see that. You know, this is my life.

Do you consider yourself to be enlightened? I'm enlightened to what hurts and what doesn't. Yeah, and I don't believe about that.

Yeah. How often do you experience kind of sticky emotions or resistances or contractive sensations or sensations of kind of old remnants of like, ah, I remember this and this is bringing up like discomfort within myself. How often do you experience that within yourself? And what do you do when you do experience that, assuming that you do?

If I experience within myself, I notice automatically as a result of just sitting in the practice of self-inquiry, I notice automatically on the cause of, let's say, the cause of my suffering and how to end it. And then I can always say, you know what I said, Erin? It just wasn't true. And I wanted you to see me as wise.

You know, just to like, if I lay a track and it's not authentic to take care of that track, to take care of that track, because that track is an internal tape.

And it creates my identity. So keeping those tracks, you know, playing along the road. Yeah. And if the track is not, doesn't come into resonance or alignment with integrity, it will maintain a sound. Like it will, it's like, it's like it will, it will keep on making a sound. It will keep on crying until it's addressed. And if a person has a higher level,

for every one of those strands of, you know, where they were lacking integrity in some capacity or lacking authenticity or truth, does a person need to retroactively go back and address those? Or how do we clean the mirror? How do we clean the vase? We know what's... We know...

you know, if I want you to see me in a specific way, which is special, special, special way, then, you know, what am I saying and doing that would manipulate that? And so if you see me as a marvelous person, I can never believe you or respect it because I was manipulating. I was manipulating. I was...

bringing forward an identity that isn't mine. It's who I would imagine you are.

Loving. Yeah. Yeah, that you would appreciate, care about. Respect. Yeah, respect. You know, for some of us, that just becomes a way of life. We don't even know the difference. It's just a way of life with us, and we don't understand why we want to grab that ice cream at night or the thing we said yesterday.

we're not going to eat that week, you know, or to, you know, it's, it's, we don't know what to do with this, this fake self that we live with. And so addiction will kick in to shift our mind from the kind of guilt or lack of self love that, that we seem to live out of.

Sometimes. If we were to strip away all of the accoutrement of modern life and the clothes that you wear and the cars that you drive and the profession that you have and the story that you have for yourself, what is at the core root of what each individual is seeking? I want, I need, I don't ever want to, they should, they shouldn't, I want, I need.

but underneath the I want and I need like what is like the foundational actual genuine needs the ego survival as I I am I am Byron Kathleen sitting with my friend here and you know identity identity and the ego doesn't sleep I am the one sitting in the chair I I I I had coffee this morning oops I I I I

What is that protecting? If that's kind of like a veil or some type of arm ring, what is that protecting? Well, it continues to give ego, which is a word for mind, which is a term for nothing you can prove or touch. It's an illusion. You know, I walked with my grand dogs this morning, and you saw an image of that.

And, you know, life is imagined. Did you hear me say life is imagined? I heard you say life is imagined. Catch up with yourself.

So once we understand life's a dream and there is no past or future we can prove and there is no now-now, it's, I mean, like an infant when it's born into the world, it doesn't have to think, I am. It does, you know, that's not until that baby begins to believe.

And the moment the baby believes, identification is being born. And we see the baby and we name the baby and we think the baby's marvelous, but the baby doesn't exist to the baby until it identifies as I. Until it's egoed, we could say. And it's not right or wrong. It's a way of being born into this world that I call, I refer to as Earth school.

What would be if you were live? You have kids, don't you? I have kids, Aaron. I have kids that are in their 60s. You have adults. You have adults.

How many kids do you have? Three. Three in their 60s. All right. And do you have grandchildren as well? Yes. Yeah. All five of them. If you were raising a child or if a person is raising a child, how could they best communicate

rear the child or bring the child into the world and cultivate a healthy relationship with their personality and their identity and their ego and their eye while also maintaining access to deeper truth and sensation of I wouldn't teach it on any way other than the way that I live and communicate with them and and respect them and support them

And I just respect their path. And if I'm on mine, then they've got a good teacher. Where do you think we go challenged instead of wrong? Because right and wrong doesn't exist. But where do you think that we create challenge?

obstacles and challenges for the way that modern culture, at least in the United States, from what you witnessed, raises children. And we set them up for a life where they're going to have to maybe unwind some of what they learned at some point as an adult, if they do want to come into like a more self-actualized version of themselves. You mean if I'm a parent and I want that for my children, how would I? How do we jack our kids up?

and kind of tie them in knots that they have to unwind eventually if they want to, you know, kind of. Oh, my goodness. Disrespect them. Push them beyond what they're open to without knowing to kind of back off and give them their own space and watch how quickly they want to please us and they're doing their best. So they'll hop into it and sometimes just shock us.

but not to assume that they're unteachable. But the way I teach my children, it's never too late is to live our best life

without it being at the expense of any other human being. Is that the same in relationship, like romantic relationship? How do we jack up our romantic partners in relationship in the way that we perhaps project ideas upon them or manipulate the situation? Yeah, for me, it's like I love Stephen, my husband. I love Stephen and I don't expect him to love me back. It's just not necessary for me to love him.

This is not a barter system. That's good. If you love me, then I'll love you. If you don't love me, then I don't love you. That's crazy. How would you feel if Stephen came to you today and genuinely told you, I'm not in love with you anymore, I'm going to move on? I did some ayahuasca, I had a moment, I got to go.

Knowing me, I would probably just say, "Oh, tell me everything. It sounds exciting and I want to go with you." He's like, "Nope, you can't come along. I'm out of here." Okay, I'd say, "Well, you know, if you can, please stay in touch. I want a daily report." "Nope, I'm not staying in touch. I'm out. I'm really out. I got to go. Something's changed." "Oh, you know, honey, I'd love that for you. And you made me. I'm here."

Really? That wouldn't hit you. That wouldn't get you. Oh, not if I love Stephen, and I do, and I'm pretty sure that I'd support him in that. What is love? That's love. That's love. What is love? I only love you if you stay with me. Byron Katie, what is love? What is love? What is love? It is the absence of suffering. It's to be connected with everyone and everything. What blocks...

humans from love oh you know it's an ego going I want I need you should you shouldn't and um and if you abide by all my rules then I love you and if you slip then I take it personally and it means your slip means you don't love me I take your actions personally I mean how crazy is that

So is it control that blocks love because of fear of losing love? Give me an example of what you might mean by that. If I'm saying I'll love you under this particular condition, but you can't do that and you can't do this and applying all these different rules, probably what that would be an indication of is that the person is trying to make rules because they feel unsafe without the rules. And so that would probably be rooted in some type of fear.

I would think. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, too. You know, with Stephen and my children and my grandchildren, and you know, they, I just respect their points of view. And I'm a good listener. And I noticed myself not judging in my mind, just being very open to their lives without judgment.

And I have grandchildren in college. I have grandchildren married. I have, you know, all these little walks of lives that are so beautiful. And I can't find fault with any of them. They're living their best lives. I think everyone is living their best life as when we

all look to ourselves about what are we thinking and believing. You know, I'm too tired, I can't do it today, you know, I'll do it tomorrow and tomorrow comes and I can't do it today. And, you know, putting life off, it's not right or wrong, it's just other than what we're thinking and believing, we're all really, we can all appreciate the gift of life.

How important is being in alignment with one's purpose to be able to garner or access the energy that you're talking about? So to be very honest with you, it is to, for example...

just to be where I am right now talking to you with nothing else in the world going on. It's just I'm focused, I'm in, and I'm not trying to be. I'm just, and you see the smile on my face and that one on yours. It's just, it's a good life. Is there such a thing as dharma?

or one highest one's highest calling or is it just darmas and callings and you kind of stumble into a path that feels resonant and you go with it so what is the definition of Dharma I don't know exactly I think the definition of Dharma is like like your life's purpose like you're like it's like you're living out your work like your soul's work like your soul contract okay so that doesn't have anything to do with my past or future it has to it shows up right right here

right with you this is my life's purpose and i'm happy in it and if i weren't i'd i'd say aaron you know shut down the recorder honey there's something i want to tell you and i just didn't want to do it on the air and and i need to hang up now

Because life is, we're not trapped in any situation, you know, it's just, I'm just delighted to be here with you. And this is, and I've got grandkids and kids and grand dogs and Stephen out there and here I am, you know, little of this, little of that, happy to be here in this world.

How important is planning and projecting oneself into the future and kind of creating path? For me, it's how can I help? And I can't go wrong there. Do you project yourself into the future often and make plans? And if I do this, then this, and if I do that, then that? Or is it mostly based on feel of how this feels now, like a metal detector, just kind of going across the beach and how this feels true?

To imagine myself in the future is unnecessary. It happens on its own. Like I'm going to walk into town today

And I see me walking, just don't know if it's true or not. But I'm delighted at the thought. Who knows? Could be. What do you think of manifestation, the concept of manifestation, Katie? Tell me about manifestation. Like you invited me to hang out and I wasn't...

I go, absolutely, yeah. And happy about that. And so together we've manifested time together.

That would be one version of manifestation. The other version would be like, have you seen like the movie, the secret, for example, the documentary, whatever. I've heard a portion of it. Okay. I feel like you'd probably be in the secret, but, but so, so the, the concept of manifestation, like the bigger one, that's more of a stretch for some more like scientific minds would be that I can visualize a certain reality and bring myself into alignment and resonance with

with the state that I would be in, in that reality. And I become an- Well, that's just like thinking, me thinking, I need to go to the grocery store today. I'm going to the grocery store today and doing it. I've manifested groceries.

Or something, maybe I'm missing something. But can I, but can, so the bigger concepts, it's a harder stretch for some people would be that I can create a certain like resonance in a sense within myself to become an attractor for those things that I desire. Or are we living, does that, what do you think? That would be like the concept of like, you are an attractor for the things that you kind of send signals out to, right?

I want to take a moment and share about something I'm incredibly excited about. It is the release of the Align Breathing program. What makes the Align Breathing program different is it actually teaches you how to breathe. Most of the programs and practices and modalities that I see within the breathing space or even yoga or weightlifting or anything that pertains to breath

is there's not much, if any, education on how to breathe, the structure and the mechanics and the function of breathing. If you'd like to learn more about your own breath, I wanna invite you guys to take the breathing archetype quiz, where we ask you a few subjective questions and also go through a couple of breathing exercises for you to have a better understanding of how you breathe and how you can breathe better.

The breathing quiz is at alignpodcast.com slash quiz. That's A-L-I-G-N podcast.com slash quiz. I look forward to seeing you guys over there. You know, really honest with you, authentic with you. It's, I have what I want. And if I were out in the desert with no food, no water, no direction as to how to get out of that desert, why am I not alive?

why am I not happy? It's what I'm thinking and believing that would frighten me. And I'm talking about a real, you know, this isn't, I'm talking about the way I have lived and experienced, you know, in the desert with no way out, no sense of direction, lost, and never lost, always found, I always was where I was. And by some grace, my faith,

feet knew the way out and but there was no fear there there was just there was just trust and trust without need to trust are there examples devastation you know aaron if i want more than i've got then i have left what i've got in the dust like it was nothing right this is something this life is something you know we don't have a home we do

We have a home in this world and it can look pretty scary sometimes. And that's why I do what I do. I offer inquiry. You know, the option of identifying, questioning the thoughts that we're believing that would cost us the gift of life. Cost us meaning leave us with a lack of appreciation and not enough.

And that's handicapping because we can't see what we do have and that want of what we don't have. I feel like there's a book called The Spirit of Money. One of the things that it talks about in that book that I appreciate is exactly what you're saying of

It's very important to value and respect everything that you have presently. And then from there, allow whatever is to be. But I think if it's almost feels like an entitled child type mentality, then

to be running the programming that I will be happy when. Meanwhile, you're fed and you're healthy and you have a home and you live in a place where you're free to communicate and connect and have like so much access to so many gifts, but you're still running this kind of stubborn entitled software system that I will be happy when.

And I feel like in some ways like that software is like the universe. If the universe had some consciousness, like father, motherly consciousness, I feel like I might have a sensation. If I were the universe, father, mother, universe, I might be like, I don't think you deserve more right now until you can come to appreciation for what you have. What do you think about that? Just to want what I have and have,

If I want more, I'll ask or go earn. How often, if ever, have you worked with or had someone come to one of your events or something of the sort that has a story of something in their life that is very painful, that the work has not been successful in reframing for them? Does that happen? You know, I can't say that it...

has or hasn't, you know, only each individual can know that themselves. Sure. You know, what I offer is self-inquiry and self-inquiry, it's not something we can

We can invite people to do self-inquiry, but we never, you know, I don't have a way of understanding that they have dropped in and understood something or if they're guessing at these questions, what the right, guessing what the right answers are would please me or that the right answer is supposed to be.

Self-inquiry is mind-blowing. It takes a lot of courage because it's questioning the ego and the ego is very clear about who and what I am and my life. But to question what I'm thinking and believing, it's a big deal. It shifts identity.

And the ego doesn't, it doesn't go along with that well. You know, it's, it wants to, it doesn't, you know, when you're, when you're asleep at night and you're not dreaming, do you exist at all?

And then there's some point where I, I am, I am awake. I'm getting up this morning. I can't get up this morning. You know, whatever is rolling, it's just that ego, it doesn't sleep, even though it sounded like. I mean, no ego, no world, Aaron. How, if a person feels, to say a person is sleeping,

coming out of a relationship and they have the story that's a burden to them that I was betrayed. And it's a story that they rehearse and, you know, like how do they, how do you guide a person through reframing that story in a way that feels integrated or loved? I'd have them fill in a judge your neighbor worksheet on, on that,

on that betrayal and then we would sit through that. But if I thought I was betrayed, let's say Stephen was unfaithful to me and I found out about it and am I betrayed? To me, that would not be right. Stephen has his own life.

And so I, loving Stephen, I'd want to know what his experience was and what was that like for him. And, you know, I would just respect his life. I don't own him. And as it happens, he's unmarried.

very monogamous and dedicated to our relationship. And I'm so grateful for that and it just blows my mind. But if he had an affair with someone else, I'd want to know all the details. I want to know about his happiness.

I want to know maybe what he specifically loves about her. Maybe he could get it from both camps. I don't know. I love Stephen and I love he's monogamous because I'm a selfish human being. It's like, oh, he's mine, all mine. But, you know, as long as he's happy with that, oh my goodness, does that work well for both of us? How do you, a person, there's like the Palestine-Israel

stuff happening. And if you were to talk to a person, probably from either place, you know, I live in Miami, there's a lot of Jewish people out here, I've noticed. And something that I've witnessed and observed is there's a significant amount of charge around many of the Jewish people that I've talked to. And it's something that I don't really understand.

And I've noticed some like reactivity and charge and like me trying to kind of poke around and like understand where all the charges coming from. I've noticed it go into directions of like emotional responses and kind of like, okay, interesting. There's like a very heavy charge here that I don't fully understand.

And there's a charge on what, in what aspect? A charge in the sense of like the person has a lot, there's a lot of deep seated emotion, like very charged, highly charged emotion. Having to do with what? The idea that my people are experiencing, you know, a genocide or experiencing something of the sort. And there's a lot of emotion in that.

How would the work apply to a conversation with someone like in that circumstance where they feel like the people that they identify with are amidst a genocide? How do how does the work support them to be able to find love and alignment and freedom? And give me a scenario so I can more track

track you in the scenario so I'm more able to answer your question. Screw those people. They killed my family and I'm angry and I want to kill them. And so I would just sit with that person. It's done. You want to kill them? Mm hmm. Yeah, they need to die. They're trying to they're trying to they're trying to kill my entire, you know, anyone that's under my religion. They've been doing this for thousands of years. Like, like, they need to die. I'm so angry. Yeah.

So they need to die. Is it true? That's where I would take them. And notice how you react, what happens when you believe the thought that they need to die. You want to kill them. And notice in that same situation, who would you be without the thought, I want them to die. I want to kill them. And then I would invite you

Having said with you as you meditated in those four questions, I'd invite you to turn it around. They need to die, want to kill them. Turn it around. They don't need to die. I don't need to kill them. And then I'd ask you for examples of, do you see another way? How might there be another way? Just assuming there is another way, what that might be.

And then I would wait for you to ponder that and wait to hear what you see. And if you offered up any argument, I'd just say thank you for that, you know, and go back to, you know, where we were. There's another way what that might be. And then they need to die. Turned around, I need to die. And...

and my thoughts about that situation need to die and try all these on not as another way of being right, you know, but just what's inside of us, self-inquiry, you know, it's without boundaries. You know, when the massacre happened in Israel with all the young people,

on

there were some people in Ojai that flew all of them into Ojai and I had the privilege of working with them. And they were amazing. Their mind was wide open, as traumatized as some of them were. Their mind was so open to self-inquiry, which is another way of saying they were so open to forgiveness.

without even calling it forgiveness. Self-inquiry allows us to get in touch with our kindest, saner self. You know, other than what we're thinking and believing, this is a wonderful world. And it's looking really weird these days.

And, you know, I'm looking out the window and there are trees and sky and my friend Aaron here on the screen. And it's, you know, it's a beautiful world, but only in reality. But, you know, a bomb could go off. And I didn't miss the good part. You know, so some of us are fearful throughout our whole lives.

And self-inquiry is, it gives us a freedom that I certainly could not give another human being. I don't know another human being that can. But the gift of self-inquiry, how to deal with life through our own deeper understanding

and connection with that. That's what self-inquiry brings forth. So I rather than like I'm open to answers like politicians and debaters and left and right and but what do I think?

what do I think and to know what I think, you know, self-inquiry, you know, find a wrong someone who believes against my values and to question my thoughts about that person or that group of people wakes me up to who and what I am and connects me with those people. I don't have to agree with their methods.

But it wakes me up to why they might see life the way they see it. And I respect that. My life isn't about changing the way people see the world. You know, I leave that to each person I work with and, you know, respectfully. Is there anything that's unforgivable? Well, in my world, no.

Because, you know, I look at like the biggest, let's say, sinner in the world or mad man or woman in the world. And with the understanding, with the understanding, not pretending to have the understanding, but with the understanding that if I believe what they believe, how could I not do the same? Sure.

So when we listen to our politicians and the way of the world and people that have ideas, other people that have ideas you may not agree with, it's good to have that understanding like in our bones, in our cells, that they're innocents. And it doesn't mean that it's not cruel what they are saying and doing.

It's not to excuse it. It's just that seriously, if I believe what they believe, how could I not do the same? How could I not? So that levels the field. That levels the field for me. So I continue to do what I do, which is offer self-inquiry to people. And of course, it's always free on the work.com. It's just, it's, it's, um,

It's not something I can give. I can give the questions, but I can't give the enlightenment. And that doesn't mean that you need to invite that person to your house and have dinner with them and date them and drive them around in your car and keep in contact and text message them. That just means that you can forgive and release. But any bit of lack of forgiveness or contraction or hatred or anything that you hold is only a toxic thing.

idea that manifests itself into something that what is disease in the body? What is disease in the body? It's, it's, it's life.

It's alive. It's a disease and we try to kill it and sometimes we're successful at it, sometimes we're not. But the fear of death, that's something to work with, or the fear of pain. And what I love about this Earth School is that even physical pain is either remembered or anticipated. There's nothing that's not. So do we exist at all?

And I'm not a champion of that idea. It's simply self-inquiry can take us, it can answer questions for us if we meditate in those questions, sitting in silence, pondering those four questions and turnarounds that I offer people that I refer to as the work.

It's for each of us to determine what's right and what's wrong, rather than believing other people. You know, what do we really think for ourselves?

And what is kindness? How does anger, resentment, and emotions that are kind of, you know, feel a little bit more contractive in nature, how does that physically show up in one's life or in one's body? Oh, you know, it can be a very emotional thing, which affects blood flow, affects digestion, it affects...

personality, you know, what we're thinking and believing. And like I'll say a word right now and don't give it a picture, okay? Lemon.

-Banana. You see it, you can't help it. That's life. If I invite you to bite into a big juicy lemon right now, you feel it. It even has a physical effect. Nothing happened but imagination. Nothing happened but imagination. The way we react when we're believing our thoughts, this is earth school.

And it's anything that argues against what is beautiful and understandable. And, you know, life is a gift. And anything we believe against that feels like stress. And it creates war. It's the cause of war. So self-inquiry doesn't work.

It's like it gives us something that the world can't teach us. It gives us our own opinion when we drop in and allow ourselves to meet those questions that I invite people to. The truth that meets those questions that we can live by, it's not too tough. In fact, anything less than that is tough.

What inspires you these days? And also, is there any books or authors or people that you look up to?

I think people have beautiful minds and beautiful ways of expressing them. But of course, I love Loving What Is because it invites people to self-inquiry. You know, the books I'm fascinated by, Erin, are as people sit in self-inquiry and the way they respond out of self-inquiry.

Those are the books I love. They're reading their book and they're reading it to me. And every human being is really doing that. It's like, hi, my name is Byron Kathleen. Who are you? And they may say, who?

Who are you? Leave me the hell alone. You know, I just followed the simple directions. It's pretty clear, leaving the hell alone and just have a good life. - Do you have, who has been your biggest role model or role models in your life? - My first response is everyone. Let's see. There's so many people I love and respect in the world, you know?

Like you for one, you're holding me in the air. I'm in this really weird position. What are you going to do with me next? Are you going to throw me? What are you going to do? I love you and respect you. I just had the best of times. Last time Katie and I recorded a podcast, I did acro yoga with you. That's what she's recording too right now.

Yeah, you're very good. You're a very supple girl. You're very full on. Oh, God, that was just so much fun. See, I love the don't know. I know you're going to throw me across the room. You did a really good job.

Yeah, that was, I was very, that's something that I've like referred back to on several occasions of how much I appreciated you at the time. I don't know how old you were at the time, but you were, you were, I guess it was maybe what, four years ago or something like that. Yeah. Five years ago or so. And yeah, you were game for that. It was a very adventurous thing. I'm 82 now. So you're like 78 or something like that. Yeah. And you were very open to,

to be like, yeah, pick me up, put me upside down, push me around. When you asked for the interview, I thought that's what we're going to do again at the center. That'll be cool. That was fun. What do you see when you look into a person's eyes? Beauty. Magic. It's exciting. And excitement's a feeling. Oh, I love it so much, Aaron. Yeah.

But it's funny, like so many people can't look you in the eye, which I wouldn't expect anyway. I love it. Oh, someone referred to it as the window of the soul. Maybe that's why. Maybe I just...

How long have you had that experience of looking? Cause I presume what we're seeing when we're looking into the eyes of another person is we're seeing a reflection back into ourselves. And if we have, if we're holding a cauldron of self judgment or hate or resentment towards anyone, you know, ultimately that would act as a projection of,

informing the way that we see the world around us. So it would be, if you look into the eyes of another person and you see beauty and magic, it probably indicates that you've come into acceptance of the beauty and magic of yourself and the world, because it's all the same thing. Is there a separation between the self and the world around the self? No, the self is a standalone thing.

The self sees the world as the self imagines the world to be. So that's the world it's stuck with. And people either live their world or they fear it.

And I think that's the power of self-inquiry is we come to understand ourselves and in that we come to understand the world. The world is, you know, it just makes sense. The world is as, for example, the world is as I believe it to be and that's so for all of us. So if I don't love the world, I move my thoughts about the world to paper and then I question those thoughts.

each thought, you know, one belief, one thought at a time. And then I can, it shows me how to live, to live myself the way I'd want the world to live. So it gives me directions, my judgments about the world when I question them and I turn them around.

you know, then that leaves me to live as I would require the world to live. Well, it's pretty tough for, you know, like each ego thinks it knows what the perfect world would be and the world would be better if. Well, yeah. And in my case, it's to try that on and live it and see if it's so, not just to believe it prior to, um,

prior to experience. Is it even possible to love the world? And to love the world, you know, I exchange, inter, you know, interchange, like understand it to be with experience to be and love. Last question. What is God to you? Everything without exception.

G-O-D, good old dude. Good old gal. Good old gal. Good old dude. Love you, Gug. Yeah. God, for me, is everyone and everything without exception. And the ego would call up exceptions, and that's what self-inquiry is all about, to test it, not to put us to sleep and...

and come up with what we think the right answer might be, but the real deal, you know, to judge God, for example, and question those judgments and turn them around and understand more deeply what love is. And yeah, G-O-D, G-O-D.

You know, my world, God is everything without exception. Does the universe operate through the realm of an intelligence? And if so, is the intelligence benevolent in nature? Benevolent intelligence. That's why when we say things, they feel or do anything that goes against that feels like stress and guilt.

And that's the beauty of guilt, you know, when we think against our hearts, against our true nature, it feels like stress. So what I invite people to do is notice what we're thinking and believing that would go against, for example, God is good, God is everything, without exception, and to think, to question what we're thinking and believing about God.

about the world and the people in it. Oh, sweetheart, you know, if, if, if, if, you know, if this is just something, again, people can try on, you know, if, if, and turned it around and to fit themselves. It's like, if I believed what the worst person in the world, the most cruel person in the world, if I believe what they believe, how could I not

do the same? How can I not be the same? That's very humbling. And to understand that when you're not at war with anyone or anything, what a gifted life and self-inquiry can open us up to these things as real, not fiction, real and true by nature.

you know to to think against our heart or against that principle of love on is to feel stress and that's you know i refer to it sometimes as the little temple bell that says wake up you're asleep what are you thinking you know don't just let it pass you know love making sit in self-inquiry with it understand it on its own grounds you know and

Yeah, what a great life. And if a person, if the universe does have a benevolent nature to it, when a person is experiencing anxiety or fear or some form of dis-ease within themselves, it would be perhaps a nudge from that universal consciousness saying, you're a little off track, go this way and...

you know, that will bring you to God. Is God something, what do you think of heaven and hell? I think heaven is right-mindedness, meaning in tune with reality.

And hell is to argue against reality. That would include earthquakes and war and divorce and one of our children dying, etc., etc., etc. You know, hell is a state of mind.

And the way we live out of it, it can really affect and harm a lot of people. And we can justify it in some way, but no, we can't. No, we can't. Pain is pain. What happens to our consciousness when an individual transitions out of the body?

Well, I would question that they do. Like my mother died several years ago, but she still lives in me. Like we're talking now, bring her up, and I can see an image of her in my head. And I can almost smell her, you know, the kind of perfume she wore.

And just, oh my gosh. And it's just, it just,

it just brings her as close to me as if she were alive. And that sounds a little strange, you know, it's like I can't touch her, I can't really, she's not really here. Well, yeah, she is. She is. Like, when she was alive, if she was watering the lawn and I was in the bedroom and I imagined her in the kitchen or living room,

And no, no, you know, she's out. She's no way she's not even in her home. She's outside. So I imagined her in the kitchen or I imagined her in the living room, but no, she was outside. And so in death, it's the same.

She comes to me and I imagine her, as we're talking now, in the living room, sitting in her favorite rocking chair in her 80s and reading her New Yorker. I love that. Well, Byron Katie, I really appreciate you. I love you. Oh, I love you too. We love our time together. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. It's...

No censorship between the two of us. It's just wild and wonderful. And I love our time together. Yeah, I look forward to the next time, whatever that is. Is there anything else that we can or that you can leave with people? Is there anything that would be sweet to touch on? Is there anything that you have coming up that you could invite people to or books or anything like that? Oh, gosh.

Yeah, it's every Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday at 9am Pacific time. People come, they hop in, you know, we just all hop in together and everyone's welcome and we do self-inquiry. Where is that?

Is that like thework.com? Uh-huh. Oh, cool. Sweet. And you also have your free worksheet where people can go through the inquiry at thework.com? Oh, always. Yeah, that's always on thework.com. And I have a podcast. I didn't know that. That's fun. Yeah. I love that. It is. Yeah.

I love it. You know, people bring it to my attention occasionally. We haven't been at it too long, but... Yeah. What is it called? I think, I think The Work with Byron Katie. I'm not sure. I'd have to look it up.

I love that. All right. Well, amazing. Is it, do you, do you, with the podcast, is it you talking to, like working with people? Yeah, it's me working with people. It's, it's, it's the, the people that I work with Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday that all pop in and yeah. And, and with their permission, we pop them onto that. That's fun. Podcast.

Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you. It is a pleasure. I appreciate you too, Aaron. Thank you for your good work. Oh, I love you deeply. And thank you for being so flexible with our time together today. Oh, no worries. No worries. I love it. I look forward to next time. All right. Thank you all for tuning in. That is it. That is all. I'll see you all next week.