Sisterhood of Governors
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You're listening to a podcast from Washington Post Live, bringing the newsroom to you live. Good afternoon. I'm Matea Gold, one of the managing editors here at The Post, and it is my pleasure to have a conversation with three of the Democratic governors of this great country, New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, Massachusetts Governor Maura Healey, and Kansas Governor Laura Kelly. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

We were also hoping to be joined by New York Governor Kathy Hochul, who unfortunately has laryngitis. So we miss her this time, but we'll have her again. I wanted to start our conversation addressing the elephant in the room, so to speak, which is how all of you as Democratic governors are going to contend with the second Trump administration. And I think probably the best place to start is one of the things that incoming President Trump

Trump said he's going to do on day one, which is mass deportation. Two days before Trump named him border czar, Thomas Homan said about working with the states on mass deportation, quote, if you don't want to work with us, then get the hell out of the way. So, Governor Healey, let's start with you. What do you make of those comments? Are you going to cooperate with the border czar? And how are you going to handle this policy? Well, thank you. It's great to be here. I

I don't know that I honestly understand his comment, the incoming border fellow czar there. You know, prior to being governor, I was a prosecutor and I was attorney general and regularly, routinely conducted investigations, prosecutions, joint federal state.

But when it comes to immigration, the law is clear. Federal immigration and federal immigration enforcement is something for the federal authorities, federal agents, federal assets. It doesn't involve state or local police. So that's the first question I have. I'm not sure what he's driving at. The concept of mass deportations is

There are so many families with mixed status in this country. There are so many people who are gainfully employed, who are paying taxes, who are raising children here, who are in schools. It would crater our economy.

if that kind of activity were to occur. Just think about the agricultural sector and the impact on grocery prices, right? So I'm not sure what they mean by that. I can tell you as a former attorney general, we all support taking steps to pursue and prosecute and hold accountable, including deportation, violent criminals. Absolutely. But when it comes to families who have been living and working in our states...

I think that's cruel. I don't think it's humane. And I think it's economically really, really problematic. And it's unlawful. Let's talk about the impacts. In your state, Governor Lujan Grisham, what do you think the impact would be if this policy?

I can't overstate the negative impacts here if they undertake such a massive and cruel effort. I don't know how they undertake it, which is why they're posturing that states are gonna have to do it. They're not gonna do it 'cause we have no federal authority here. We would be liable, and to Governor Healey's point,

agriculture, long-term care, all of the, you don't have any hospital techs or folks cleaning hospitals. And we forget about the role. What we want is a system that recognizes that, that if after you're here, that you are a person

a viable, productive community member, there should be a pathway to citizenship. There should be more visas up front. There should be comprehensive immigration reform. And if the Republicans in Congress and the president-elect were interested in doing that, they would have already done it. And a point that I think gets lost around the country, not lost on a border state,

is we do work with the attorney generals. It's not partisan. We have a role for any criminal activity. I don't want any criminal activity at the border, and I don't want it anywhere in my state. I want no human trafficking. I want nothing to do with guns and contraband. I don't want any drug trafficking. You know where that happens?

ports of entry. Now, not completely, but 80%. Why don't you put some more fentanyl detection, some more agents? Why don't you use the kind of technology and security we pretend that

We just won't do anything. No, they have to pass this bill. They need more support. And if they were serious about problem solving, and I want this problem solved, they would do it. And we already use our guard in an appropriate way. We use our police in a lawful, appropriate way to do the work that you did as AG. We prosecute folks who are engaged in criminal activity in our states and will continue to do justice.

- Such a great point you make about, you know, the president-elect ran so much on the border and immigration. It is now his problem to fix. He chose not to fix it a year ago when he killed the bipartisan bill. - And when he was president before. - But that's what we really need. You know, to secure a border, you need that law. I'm so glad you raised that because that's what we need to do. More agents, more assets, better processing, the interdiction of fentanyl, human beings and the like. That's what the president-elect and Congress, it's on them.

Governor Cully, let me bring you in as a governor of a red state. How will Kansas navigate this? The way we always have, which is to

try to work with the administration that were dealt. We did that during the pandemic. It was absolutely essential that the state work with the federal government to get us through that. So I had no trouble going to Washington and meeting with and working with the Trump administration. I will do that again.

But I also will stand up when they try to encroach upon my authority and the authority of my local units of government. And so particularly in the issue of immigration, Kansas is an agricultural state.

And our economy really depends upon the ability to have the workers, whether they're permanent or seasonal, to make sure that we are able to grow that food that feeds the country and the world. So we will do what we've always done, which is work with you when we can and stand up to you when we can't. Can I make one more point about this that...

With all of the natural disasters and all of the issues, I think sometimes Americans forget about the roles that the Guard plays in our states. So just a couple months ago, not even, I did, through the Guard, that didn't sound right, we responded and the Guard was right there, 300 swift water rescues in a matter of a couple of hours in an area that doesn't flood in southeastern New Mexico.

What about the 300 people who might have lost their lives if someone else in the Beltway is making decisions about where they should be and what they should be doing? - Let's go to election results, 'cause I'd love to get all of you to reflect just a moment to look back. I know it seems like a long time now, but it hasn't been that long. Let's start with you, Governor Kelly. Republicans made gains in the Kansas legislature. There's now a super majority. - Tell me about it.

They now have the ability to override your veto. How do you plan on navigating that? - Well, know that I've been doing that for the last five years. We've had a super majority. I was hoping to be able to break that. This time around, that didn't work. Actually, it got worse. So we will continue to operate the way that we have.

Over the last five and a half years, we have found ways to find that 1% of common ground that we might have to try to push forward good policy. We'll also be strategic as we have always been and enlist.

Kansans to help us get our agenda through because even though our legislature is a super majority, rather extreme right, Kansans are not. And I can just harken back to August of 2022 when Kansas was the first to respond to the overturning of Roe v. Wade. And we came through

hard and fast with 60% of Kansans saying absolutely not. We're gonna protect that right within our constitution. And I think those are the Kansans. And so we will just enlist them as some of the extremes start to go after things like school vouchers, which are not popular, continue to block Medicaid expansion, and propose

absurd tax cuts that will send us back into the tank that we just got out of. So we'll just do what we've always done, work strategically, but work in a bipartisan way and really do look for common ground. Governor Healy, it was obviously a very solid night for Republicans. Did you see any bright spots for Democrats?

I think there are a lot of bright spots for Democrats. And, you know, look, we are a divided country right now. And you look at the margin of the popular vote, you know, there's a division in this country. I love being on a panel with these women. And I so respect and admire them because as women governors, and by the way, Democratic governors, remember, are in five of the seven battleground states.

And they are elected. State officials are elected because we deliver. And I see the work that Governor Kelly is doing. I see the work that Governor Lujan Grisham is doing. We're just going to continue to do that. You know, we're focused on election. You know, a takeaway, I think it

People's economic state of play does really resonate. I think there are a whole bunch of factors that people a lot smarter than me will analyze and speak to. But I know for all of us, we're really focused on lowering costs in our state, creating more housing because housing prices are too high, making sure that families have access to health care, have access to a quality public education, protecting clean air, clean water. This is all really important stuff and

and driving us forward economically. Just yesterday I was able to sign a major economic development bond bill for my state, $4 billion, and that follows a $5 billion housing bond bill. And I cut taxes last year. And all of us as leaders, I see and I learn from them, we're driving that every day in our state, and I think that you'll continue to see Democratic governors do that. That's our focus. It's on the people in our states who were elected to serve.

- If I could just say, there was a bright spot for Democrats. When you look at what happened with Democratic governor's races, we were able to sustain all of our current

Democrat states. That's a win. We suffered absolutely no losses. Do we want more? Yes. But we got what our original primary goal was, was to protect North Carolina, Delaware, and Washington state. And North Carolina, Joss Stein won by the largest margin ever. In North Carolina, we have to keep translating the work that goes on the ground

primarily by Democratic governors, and don't get me started on bragging on my female colleagues because a lot of our outcomes are higher, faster, better. So I like that.

We need to translate that momentum and effort to national races and politics. And we are going to keep building that. I like to brag about this in New Mexico. We're a poor state, lots of issues. But post-COVID, just in the last couple of years, we've gone from 50th in childhood poverty when you use the supplemental census data income, fancy title for poverty,

housing, free childcare, it'll be universal in a year for everyone in New Mexico, free college two year, four year, part time, full time, anywhere, anytime, and all the rest of it because this is what creates family stability, equity, creates opportunity. We went to 17th in the country. This is what people need and what they want.

Before we move off the election, I do want to get your perspective on some shifts we saw in the electorate, particularly among Latinos. I'm wondering what you make of that. Why did we see more Latinos move to Republicans this time? I think actually for me in particular, somebody asked me recently about, well, why is New Mexico so blue? Well, first of all, we have a tendency to try to be monolithic about voters, and we should learn a lesson about that.

Two, voters want you to meet them where they are. We need to do more of that and in minority voters, particularly Latinos and Hispanics, you need to be in these neighborhoods, in these workplaces, and you gotta be able to relate to those issues. And of course, the Mexicans,

We are the only minority majority state. 60% of these voters are Native American and Hispanic, and these populations have been working together for 400 years. So knowing about what these issues are, it's not that no one in New Mexico is feeling any economic pain. They are. Groceries prices, utility prices, insurance prices, all of that still needs to be addressed.

but they can connect the policies that are making a difference in their lives. We're going to have to translate that all voters, but to particularly to communities that have been far too often left behind in too many states.

And this struggle over the last generation or decade has just been too hard. And we recognize that, Democrats recognize that. Translate it to the national level and I think we're fine. - One of the issues we heard over and over again from voters on the campaign trail was about housing and just

how incredibly difficult it is. And Governor Healey, I'd love to hear from you how you're wrestling with this in Massachusetts. Are you hopeful there could be more money from an infrastructure point of view to support housing investment and how you're going to tackle that? Well, we certainly had that under the Biden-Harris administration. I hope that continues. I think all governors hope that infrastructure, investment, and funding is...

forthcoming. But you know, we also have to lead in our own states and figure out a way and I prioritize housing out of the gate when I got elected and we were able I was able to pass a law that's going to provide, as I say, $5 billion out of the gate to to incent more development in our states. I know for me it's a competitive

disadvantage that housing is so expensive. And while I'll brag, you have to allow this, you'll brag too, you'll brag too. Massachusetts right now, we're number one in education, innovation, and healthcare. We were recently ranked number one state to live if you're a woman, number one state to have a baby.

But our housing's expensive, so that's why we prioritize that and prioritize how do we bring more units online, change zoning, do a whole bunch of different things to make the math work right now for developers in our state. I have an idea for you.

I need those outcomes in New Mexico, so we should just trade for a second and get that done. I steal her child care. What a leader in child care. I steal her stuff. So we're going to do that. But, Bill, we need to be building affordable housing on state land. We have control. We don't have to do all the zoning and planning. That's not to say that we wouldn't make it safe, sound, environmentally sound, all of that. But it moves quickly.

And so we're announcing a big housing development plan for Albuquerque, New Mexico next week. And I think we could really leverage democratic governors. We work really well together. We also are productively competitive. A raise to the top is good for America.

And we do that really well, and I'm proud of that. And expect us to do more in housing, but we could use your help. The federal government needs to do their part so that we're all doing it collectively together across the country. - Governor Kelly, I know one of your top goals is to expand Medicaid. What is the likelihood of that? How do you possibly push that through? - Diminished.

- Yeah, I have been working now for six years to get Medicaid expanded in Kansas. I think we're one of nine or 10 states that has not done that. Clearly this past election,

I had my own barriers in Kansas. I think we're now gonna be seeing some barriers coming out of Washington, D.C. that will make it even more difficult. So it's not that I will give up on it, but I think I will limit the resources that I use until we see what the fallout is from what happens in Washington, and then refocus that energy on some other things that are very high priority, housing being one of them.

We have interesting, unique housing issues in the state of Kansas, and we've been looking over several years now for a variety of ways to really do housing in a way that works for Kansas. And one of the things that we've done, and I'm very proud of, is that we've taken our downtown and our very small communities, and where those used to be sort of pigeon lofts, we have now re-designed

our incentive programs so that developers can go up into those lofts and create housing in our very small communities. And it's been amazing because now teachers have a place they can afford to live, nurses have a place they can afford to live, and it's really worked. And the vibrancy that that then brings

back into our downtowns is, combined with a number of other programs that we're doing, we're really helping rural Kansas thrive. - I visited Kansas in a little place called Pittsburgh, Kansas, and took a family member for a renowned literacy program there, stole it,

And it's now embedded in New Mexico. And I saw the student housing in those loss, revitalizing a tiny rural community, making a difference. And it's another great example where productive, positive competition creates real results. I don't have to

I don't have to be as knowledgeable as Governor Kelly in rural housing development, but I can go right over there. She met me there, and we can take a look, and I can figure out how to replicate it in my state. And again, if we can translate getting it done

to national elections. I think it's less partisan. I think it'll be more productive. And I think it can unify the country, which I would submit we need now more than ever. So Governor Healey, sorry, let the audience give that a round of applause.

How do you translate that to the national stage? And really, even more specifically, what do you think the Democrats need to offer as a national agenda to have that kind of success at the state level, you say? Well, I mean, part of it is just showing up and doing our jobs. I think we show that every day in our states, and we deliver. It's funny, talking about housing being such an important prerogative imperative for our states and for our country,

Do you know who's working in the construction industry? So back on the mass deportation issue, that's not going to help us build more housing. But that aside, I think it's just continuing to push on the things that make a difference and explaining and showing people and telling people, you know, these are the policies that make it possible for you to access needed abortion care. These are the policies that enable you to have

access to paid family leave when you need it, or coverage for unemployment, or any number of things, access to quality education. We have free community college in our states. It's incredible in terms of what it's empowering for our workforce, importantly. And so you just have to talk about these things. I also think, we're talking about the ACA,

The president-elect tried to take that away from people, remember? And how important it was for people to stand up and say, hey, this is important to me. Don't take this away. And I think we don't know what's going to happen, but when bad things happen to people in our state, and if there's federal overreach or things that are done to hurt our people, access to care, to education, their jobs, we've got to call that out. And we've got to say who is responsible.

One of the other-- - And you're looking at three women who are going to do that. We're small. We're small, but we're-- - You're giant. You're over five foot. - Well, I'm giant to you, I know. - One of the other clear takeaways from this election, I think, that all of us were following it closely, were struck by, was just the polarized nature of the political discourse.

And I'm wondering how that affects conversations among citizens in your states and how you work to reconcile that. I think you've all been talking about real dialogue is the solution here. So where do you see there being opportunity for making those kinds of connections between citizens at a time when people feel so far apart from each other? I'll start with you, Governor Lujan.

Well, I have a completely different story. I'm sort of, I got to be governor mostly by accident and I'm lucky and I love it.

But I was a cabinet secretary and I worked for a Republican governor for eight years. So I established, and I'm related to a million of the two million New Mexicans, and my family members had many of these positions and seats and they were all Republicans. They were property owners and ranchers and just a different dynamic about what the priorities were at the time.

I'm going out to every community and I'm going to do a quick story. I'm doing town halls and in one of them, it started at five, it was supposed to go for a couple hours, I stayed till 1:30 in the morning. Every question, every constituent, every person, and creating that respect, I respect you enough to come here,

to talk to you, not debate you, hear you, talk to you about why I'm doing something different and maybe I need to shift if I'm hearing what it is that's not occurring here. And I had a gentleman that basically, he was a little more colorful than this, but said,

"You, pretty brave coming into this red county where no one voted for you." And I said, "But I work for everyone who lives here irrespective and understanding what I could do differently or better." We need to spend time doing that every day, not just during elections because people don't have time in that moment.

they're a little suspicious about that conversation. And all of us, we need to bring, I think that's a really valuable lesson. COVID really interrupted any community building. We all feel a bit isolated and it's all foreign and it's too much. And there's a ton of anxiety and angst. We need to go into these neighborhoods and have these meaningful personal conversations. I think it does a ton. It does in my state.

All right, last question. Speaking of meaningful personal conversations, I definitely sense all of you know each other very well and talk to each other frequently. I've heard there's a group chat that you're all on. Can you give us, Governor Healy, a little window into what the dialogue is with your fellow governors? Don't say anything.

Without revealing any personal details, what does that look like, a bunch of governors texting each other and supporting each other? Just give us a sense of the relationship. You know she's our chair, right? Democratic Governors Association. So I'll be careful. Look, I think it's...

We understand there are 50 governors in this country. We hold positions that are fairly unique, and then to be a woman in these positions is even more unique. A few years ago, there were only, what, two Democratic women back in 2018, but thanks to the great work of Governor Kelly and Governor Lujan Grisham and others, we are now up to eight women Democratic governors, and we're going to continue to grow the ranks. Thank you.

But it's so important that personally, and what we encounter as women in these jobs and how we're navigating our kids and family and life and aging parents and what have you, how we're navigating professional issues.

it's so important to just be able to have that relationship where we can just pick up the phone and talk to one another. And as somebody who came more recently, it's just a huge benefit to me to be able to pick up the phone and to call Laura and call Michelle.

get their advice, you know, and we have some fun too. - You're lucky that you weren't at my wedding. I was gonna, I tried to put everyone in quinceanera dresses, but they were not having it. They were not. I, that was part of the deal. - Yes, I don't know if everyone knows, Governor Lujan Grisham got married here in Washington and had governors as her bridesmaids. - I did. I don't think they were all that interested in that, but I made them go.

I still have a quinceañera dress for you. If I could say one more thing, I mean, you're never going to see what comes out on that chat, but it's... Oh, we're very good reporters. It's much more normal than you might think. It's just the same thing everybody else talks about, and quite honestly, very little business. A lot of emojis? It's more, what do you do at your wedding? We make fun of each other a lot. We make fun of each other. Constantly. We do. So, and we make fun of others, but...

All right. Assignment for all of my reporters watching, I would like you to try to get a copy of the text, Shane. No. Wonderful. Well, it has been such a delight to have you all here today. Unfortunately, we're out of time. We're going to have to wrap. Please give a very warm round of applause for Governor's Weekend Christian, Kayleigh, and Kelly. Thanks for listening. For more information on our upcoming programs, go to WashingtonPostLive.com.