Episode 291: Finding Balance in High School and Beyond with Helen Swaveley
23:46 Share

This is Liz from A Delectable Education reminding you that it's that time of year to sign up for the ADE at Home Conference 2025. Early bird registration ends January 15 when prices increase.

We will have a wide array of workshops ready to address your pressing teaching concerns and lesson demonstrations to show what they look like in real life. I know you will not regret taking this opportunity to learn and grow. And remember, you will have three months in which to watch, rewatch, and absorb what we have prepared for you.

Welcome to A Delectable Education, the podcast that spreads the feast of the Charlotte Mason Method. I'm your host, Emily Kaiser, and I'm here with Nicole Williams, Liz Cattrall, and we are joined today by Helen Swavely. Welcome, Helen. Thank you all very much. What a treasure. What a joy. It's great to be with all of you.

And I have spoken with Helen before in her home in Colorado. I wonder if our listeners would love to hear, though, just a little bit about your family and how you came to know about Charlotte Mason's method and start using that way of educating.

Sure, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. It's a wonderful story. And I absolutely love telling it because I get to do conferences and I get to talk to lots of moms and share this. My story that's not unique, but is one to share that helps everyone to remember that we all walk different roads and God is definitely guiding our path to bring us to where he needs us to go with our families.

So our family is five kids. I've been married for 30 years to my husband, who's a retired police officer. And I'm originally from New York. And yeah, so our five children are mostly grown, not completely. Some are chronologically aged out and some should be aged out and have not gone there yet. But, you know, it's

Life is life and costs are exhausts. And we tried to keep everyone stable and allow them to stay home. But we have five children and three grandchildren right now. So which is really fun. We have two, a set of twins and a five month old.

So there's, they're 18 months and younger, 18 months and younger. So to say that it's busy is kind of an understatement these days, but, um, but it's wonderful. It's all wonderful. Um, and really the beautiful story of coming to Charlotte Mason is such a glorious God led spirit led, just answer to intense prayers, the being the cry of a mother's heart that wants to do well for her family and well for her God. And, um,

I have five children and my number three child at an early age was showing signs that he was not...

My, you know, my, you know, run of the mill kid asking lots of questions are when he was two years old, actually was about 18 months old. And we started to notice that there's something a little bit different about our Joe. And when we started to notice that he was taking sticks and we were, we were showing him picture books of dinosaurs and then he would go outside and take sticks from trees and make flat,

like designs of Tyrannosaurus Rexes or, or, you know, Parasaurolophus and he would do the outline of the, of the skeletons of these dinosaurs at 18 months old. And we thought, I was like, I'm in big trouble. I'm in really big trouble. How do you teach someone once like that? I knew that our other kids were homeschooling. I knew that he was going to be coming up to homeschooling, but we let it, we were like, no, you know, God is good. Straight path. Keep going. We're going to get this.

And so I was using a traditional method with him, true and falses, workbooks, true and falses, fill in the blanks. And some essay questions, but it was mostly just very straightforward information. And Joe was not happy. And our other kids were going along with it. And I think that they were maybe not happy, but Joe was definitely obviously not happy. And it became more and more apparent as he continued to grow and show more and more signs of,

of probably being on the spectrum.

And then it became extremely apparent that he was on the spectrum. And we just could not get him to sit and do his work. He was miserable. And he, out of love for me, out of love for wanting to do the right thing and be right by everyone, he kept doing the work. But I could tell he was not happy. He would get it done as quick as he could and then run off and try and do things that he really felt were feeding him and feeding his heart. And so I just could hear it. And then as he was aging, he was getting into more tears and more anger and more frustration.

me. That was my tears and frustrated anger. And then him and he would console me and say, it's okay, mom. So one night as we lovely, adoring mothers do, I stayed up with a computer and this was in 2007 or eight. And I started typing and I thought, and I've typed in, I still remember, I think God really kept this in my heart so I can share it. I typed in special needs curriculum and

And the first thing that popped up was Charlotte Mason. And I thought, what? And I had heard of Charlotte Mason, hadn't been homeschooling for a while. I was like, I know Charlotte Mason. Charlotte Mason is about reading books and sitting on the lawn and reading poetry and drinking tea. And I'm like, that's not rigorous enough. Kids don't learn that way. You have to learn by sweating and being unhappy. And...

And I thought, this is not going to fly. These kids are just going to walk away with, you know, like, oh, everything's like a spring dance and it's always May Day. And I thought, that can't. So when I saw Charlotte Mason and I started to read the description, it was actually simply Charlotte Mason. And it popped me right into who is Charlotte Mason. It brought me right to that description. And when I read the description of Charlotte Mason and I read who she was and her method and her philosophy of teaching, I

I thought it was truly, I mean, it sounds so cliche. It maybe even sounds dramatic. The clouds parted, the sun shone down, and the birds started singing. And I just thought, this is it. I mean, talk about answering a cry of the heart. It really, really did. And I thought, I have to find out more. And there was no turning back. There was no turning back. And I remember reading Charlotte Mason's

writing that she wrote to one of her teachers. One of our teachers came to her and said, you know, I've come here to learn. I want to learn how to teach. And she says, oh, no, my dear, you've come to learn how to live. And I thought, yes, this is exactly it. And that's when I knew that it wasn't just a method of conveying information. This was about a lifestyle. This is about how you live life and what lens you see life through. So that's

Then we turned that way and our older kids who were old enough to benefit were enjoying it. And then our younger kids who were getting the full feast, they got to really get fed. And now my youngest is like, there's no other way. There's no other way. So yeah. So that's my walk towards Charlotte Mason. Thanks be to God. Thank you. That is very inspiring. And it's very crazy to me that that is the first hit and how wonderful because we do know the method meets each child where they are.

And we personally know lots of special needs kids who have flourished very personally. Yes. So you are in a unique situation because you've been doing this for so long. You have adult children who you homeschooled and you're still homeschooling your youngest, who's an older teen now. Yeah. How have you found using this method with your older students helps balance out

What a young person needs as they're preparing for graduation and independence and life thereafter. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I think the greatest thing with using Charlotte Mason, using this method is relationship.

all day long relationship since, you know, it's so tumultuous when they hit those teen years, it's so questionable about how they're going to navigate. And the things that they find to be are told are important. Like I have, we have, my daughter has friends who are in classical education or in traditional education schools. And they'll say, Oh, I had to do this project and that project. And our daughter is like, they said, well, what are you working on in school? And she said, well,

well, I had to write a poem of my own writing in Troki. I don't even know the language. And in the style of Pope. And they were like, what? What is that? But it takes...

I feel like it is in those high school years is utilizing the ability to educate, but not to get all this like, I look so good on paper and I've checked all those boxes. Instead, it is really speaking deeply to the heart of a child.

especially at a critical time when they are feeling like, I don't know which end is up. I don't know who to believe. I don't know what to believe. There's so much out there to ping on my insecurities. And this stuff helps to soothe their heart. It's just an amazing thing to watch because I see them stepping away from my daughter and our son who used the Charlotte Mason education method in their high school years. I saw them

really resonating them a lot more peace than their peer group. Their peer group is like just frantic. And they were saying, you know what, I sit and I read. And it sounds almost like it's two people

It's too simple. Like it's too simplified. Like they're not getting the rigor, but they are reading like our daughter read Sir Walter Scott and Sir Walter Scott's Waverly is not an easy book to read. I was reading it with her. I thought, well, you know, is there any way we could maybe we just get to Robinson Crusoe and make it a little easier on us or, you know, something on the, you know,

Good night, Moon. Let's go back there. Let's go to bed. But she went through it and we were reading it together. I was like, you know, I want to read it with you because I'm curious. And that rigor she was sharing with her friends, she said, it's really interesting because it put me through my paces, but I didn't feel worn out.

And she said that was the best feeling was to walk away feeling like a really good workout. When you get that really good workout, you don't feel like you just kind of went over the hill and kind of off the cliff and you kind of overdid it. She said, I really felt like it was a good feeling of walking away from that book and others like it and feeling like I got a lot out of it and I feel refreshed and inspired as

as opposed to feeling worn out. So yeah, so I think the Charlotte Mason method works wonderfully in high school. I think it has a beautiful resonation and prepares them well for embracing what comes next, which is not just college. Everyone's like, it's college. And I'm like, well,

Life happens. Life begins pretty intensely after this high school graduation. And I think it prepares them well for that, emotionally especially. And just balancing all her extracurricular and activities, you have found that to be... Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes, yes, for sure. For sure. Yeah, we do. And you know, and I think it's just wise counsel to that I've been offered from other families and other moms that are ahead of me that say, you know, just don't overdo it. You know, everyone ends up looking great on paper, but their characters are really wrecked and their characters are marred and their bodies are worn out. And

And they, you know, my husband and I are huge advocates for not living for the weekend. Can we live life all day, every day instead of living for the weekend? Like we just plow through, get it all done, get the have tos done. And then I live it up on the weekend. So we balance it throughout the week. So we're enjoying that, that paced lifestyle that allows us to really embrace life beautifully instead of feeling frantic.

So yes, so we can definitely balance. It sounds like even as the teacher and guide for your students that this method has helped you.

Very much, very much so. Absolutely. It has helped me tremendously. It has helped me to step back and to really put into priority what truly I think what God really wants us to do, which is to really make those relationships such much more of a priority. And through the method and through the philosophies of Charlotte Mason and the books that we get to read with her recommendations and recommendations from other moms, it allows us to really enjoy

every day and not and I get to be fed oh my goodness I get to be fed it is a pleasure oh my goodness we read a tale two cities together and um I love coming to the end of a book and being in a puddle of tears along with your child your student um just embracing each other saying oh this Charles all this you know all that character Sidney Carton you know he was a good man oh

It's really wonderful. It's a joy. And at times, you know, sometimes you have conversations with families and moms and say, I wasn't educated this way. And I said, but better late than never. I mean, that's really the remembrance. You keep coming back to this idea of

relationships and how Charlotte Mason education cultivates relationship, not just with other people, but with the books and the characters in the books that make you cry because you feel like you know them. That science of relations that Charlotte Mason always talks about. I wonder how your daughter feels about her relationships with her peers that are

not being educated this way. So when they had that conversation you were sharing with us, does she feel like an outsider or do they, I mean, they are shocked that she's writing this poem in trochee based on Pope. Do they see her as weird or how is she navigating that, the relationships with her peers, even though they're not doing the same thing she is?

I think it is, they come together and they share that information and they share those experiences with each other. And our daughter, she walks away and she says, you know what? I'm really getting the better education. I'm really, and it's not to stand in that lofty place saying, I'm getting better education.

It's really saying there's almost a little tinge of sorrow. Like I wish they could see it. Like I wish they could see that this is really such a joy instead of it feeling like I got to get it done. Her friends are like, I got to get this project done. I got to get this test study, this test study for, so it's really nice to, to, um,

to feel like I don't have that anxiety. But she embraces her friends with a lot of compassion. She's like, it's, I must be hard. And then she, and then she gives me a big hug and she's like, thank you. I know it's a sacrifice. And I'm like, yeah, 25 years. It's kind of been a long road, but it's worth the sacrifice. Cause you know that the payout is, is huge. It's the payout is huge. It's really forming, forming a heart.

as opposed to just getting a transcript put together. And she, even though she does, she knows that in the back of her mind, she never stands kind of in that posturing of, I have it better, I have better off. She says, she's like, you know, I just share with them and kind of tell them the books I'm reading and share with them the stories that I read

That I know and help them to enjoy it as well. And just through her experience and her, what she can share with them. But yeah, I think she's, she never feels like an outsider. Oh no, not at all. My Maggie is not an outsider. She's very much a, like an aristocrat. She's just, she's,

she just walks around, she's like, everyone, come, come. I embrace you all. But for someone else who might be not in that, that doesn't have that disposition, I would say probably it,

It's okay. I think they find it okay. I think they say that it's fine, that this is the way they are being educated, and they have peace about it because they can sense that it's a better and more pleasant way to be educated. And there's no better than you kind of disposition. It's more of like, you know, thank you, God. That's really a grace that you allowed me to have this opportunity.

That's exactly what I was thinking is that it sounds like she recognizes the grace of the blessing that she has received. I'm also hearing that she is learning, your kids are learning the habits of life and the habits of not rushing through and enjoying but challenging ourselves and that that is what will be carried on into their life. And I just love what you said about

It's not about looking good on paper because what is that going to do to benefit you later on? That does nothing for you. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's really, it's funny because she reminds me to not rush. Cause I tend to be frenetic and I'm like, Oh, we got to get it done. She's like, we're going to get there. Let's that's, we're going to walk this right slow. But you know, your, your upbringing, your, your education kind of keeps like showing itself and you're like, Oh, that's right. I got it. I can take it slow. It's good.

Yeah, wonderful. We hear from moms all the time that their kids are maybe in middle school, they're approaching high school and they're in their worry. What encouragement would you offer moms of soon to be high schoolers?

Go for it. Go for it. This time is so short. I had a lovely grandma-ish woman stop me in a store when my kids were 18 months old and just a newborn. And of course, the 18-month-old wants to climb out of the shopping cart, and my newborn is freaking out because it's time to eat, and I'm like, ah!

I'm going to die. I haven't slept. My husband worked night shifts as a police officer. So I was on duty all the time. And she stopped me. She was like,

I know you've probably heard this before. And I was like, hurry, please hurry. I got to get to the checkout line still. And she said, this time goes by very fast. It goes by very fast. And I thought, you have no idea. It feels like it's a million years. It'll never end. She's like, no, I'm really, please believe me. It goes by really fast.

And sure enough, it's like, it just, it speeds up. Once your kids hit maybe 10, 11 years old, it speeds up and you think, oh my goodness, I don't want to lose this time. So I tell moms, if you have the opportunity and your situation allows for it, go for it and bring everyone under you. Get everyone to come alongside you, find out the best way to educate your kids and go towards it because you will build a relationship that will last a lifetime. Don't run away from it.

And I think also underlying that fear, they want to know, is Charlotte Mason enough? And I think you've already answered that. Oh, yes. It is plenty. With all of the things that you've talked. Yes. Do you have students who have gone on to college? Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. So our son, so all of our kids have gone into different various ideas. And so our oldest is a, well, he says on paper he's a systems engineer, but we think he's something else. Yeah.

He works with Northrop Grumman. He has a high security clearance. So we know that this, we're like, oh, so you're a superhero or something, some kind of super spy. So he went on to go to college and he is now working on his master's degree in space engineering. And he works with Northrop Grumman as a systems engineer. And then our other daughter is a sergeant in the United States Air Force. And she's been there for seven years and she goes to college as well. And she goes to college in the evenings after she finishes work.

And then our other son is about to continue his education with CU Denver, and he is going into animation illustration. So he went on to college. And then our last son is, oh, was just hired by the Colorado Avalanche. He works for the NHL now.

And he is 19, working for the NHL for the youth sports. And he is going to, he was initially going to go to college for visual arts. And now he's switching over to business management because he knows that that will serve his position a lot better. So, yeah, so they've all been doing very well. And they were all, so the older kids were traditional education and then Charlotte Mason. And then the number three and then down, they were all Charlotte Mason.

And absolutely it is enough because it doesn't just teach them the stuff that they need to know. It helps them to love to learn. And that is key, key, key, key. If they love to learn, they will be all set for the rest of their life because they'll always want to learn.

That's what she said. That is what she said. Well, thank you for bearing witness to the veracity of Charlotte Mason's words and the position that she put forward. So thank you so much for sharing with us today, Helen. Oh, it's a joy. What a pleasure. I know our listeners are going to hopefully breathe a sigh of relief when they hear what you had to say, and I think they'll be as touched as

as we are. Oh, good. Wonderful. Well, it is a joy and a pleasure. Thank you so also very much for all that you do because you give us the courage as well. So thank you. Would you like to go deeper in your knowledge of the Charlotte Mason method? A Delectable Education has resources available for your continuing education and growth as a Charlotte Mason teacher.

We have a variety of full-length video workshops as well as video demonstration lessons featuring real families using the Charlotte Mason Method that you can watch at your convenience. Visit www.adelectableeducation.com and click on the Teacher Training Videos under the Teacher Tools tab. Thank you for joining us today on the podcast. We hope our discussion serves to equip and encourage you as we seek to explain the Charlotte Mason Method.

You can find the show notes in your podcast app or by visiting www.adelectableeducation.com slash episodes. There you'll find the links and quotes we mentioned in today's episode. We'd love for you to help others find the show by leaving a rating or a review wherever you listen to this podcast. This takes just a few minutes of your time, but helps others find the show. We are so grateful to our loyal Patreon supporters who help make this podcast possible.

If you'd like to partner with us in our work here at A Delectable Education, you can join our Patreon community and receive exclusive and early content as our thank you for your monthly support. Find out more at patreon.com slash a delectable education. We'll see you next time.