Episode 295: Finding Balance in Community with Angie Cole
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Welcome to A Delectable Education, the podcast that spreads the feast of the Charlotte Mason Method. I'm Emily Kaiser, and I'm here with...

Nicole Williams. And Liz Gattrill. And today we are also joined by Angie Cole. This is part of our ongoing series this season about finding balance, and we have invited different guests who have sought balance in different areas of their life, and we wanted to have them share with you all. So we've invited Angie on to talk about how she has found balance in developing community for both herself and her students. So welcome, Angie.

Thank you for having me. It's such an honor to be here with all of you. Let's start things off with an easy question, I think. Could you just share with our listeners a little bit about your own family and how you found or got involved with the Charlotte Mason method of schooling? Yes, absolutely. Our family lives in the Phoenix, Arizona area. My husband and I have been married for 19 years, and we have four children.

Our oldest son is a senior this year. We have two daughters that are in forms five and three, and then our youngest son is in form two. And we're in our 13th year of homeschooling as a family and our eighth year with the Charlotte Mason method. So I actually found Charlotte Mason in a very 21st century way, and that was through social media.

You might be the first we've ever had on that said something other than for the children's sake. Well, to be honest, I have never read that book. So yeah, maybe that's unique. I'm not sure. But yeah, so my homeschooling journey actually started in the 80s. My twin brother and I were homeschooled by our parents just for a few years.

And it made such an impact on my life that I knew someday I wanted to homeschool my own children. And so luckily, my husband was on board with that from the beginning. So we started out and I just started doing school at home like I thought you were supposed to do. And a few years in, I just got really burned out. The curriculum we were using, I just felt behind all the time and I couldn't check all the boxes and it just was overwhelming.

And having that fourth baby just kind of tipped me over the edge. And so I decided to take a year off and just really pray and breathe and go be out in nature. We've always loved nature and just kind of recenter. Why am I doing this? And,

I also got on social media a lot and started following some different accounts and came across a beautiful lady named Min Huang, who I know is a good friend of yours. And her account was just so peaceful and inspiring to me to see that types of things she was doing with her family and

I had heard the name Charlotte Mason before, but didn't know really anything about her or the method or anything. But through her encouragement, she, I just kind of learned more about it. And she actually pointed me to your podcast. And I think I joined, started listening in about the second season. And I finished on all the first episodes to get a head start. But

Really, that was my introduction. All the bad quality that we used to have then before we fixed it. Right. It was worth it. It was definitely worth it. But yeah, so and so now I think it's ironic because now I teach more subjects than I did back in those early days. But it doesn't feel like box checking anymore. Now I understand why we're doing this and why we need to spread the feast for our children and how the Holy Spirit is in charge. And he's the great teacher.

And wow, what a relief to know that it's not all on my shoulders. Um, and I have such peace. So I'm just so thankful to have found it. I wish I had found it from the beginning, but I'll take what I can get. Yeah. That's how I feel too. Yes. Uh, will you tell us a little about the various co-ops and non-co-op experiences you've participated in as a homeschool family? Yeah, definitely. Um,

We've tried to always take a fairly slow approach to adding anything into our family life and schedule, kind of opting for opportunities that can incorporate the whole family. And so right now we are active with four different groups, which probably sounds like a lot at first, but really, but it's really just a total of one day a week on average for across those groups. So yeah,

The first group that we joined and really has been instrumental in our whole family's life is our nature club, our natural history club. And we just meet once a week on Friday mornings. And in Arizona, even in the winter, it's too hot to meet in the afternoon. I was going to say, you have to meet in the mornings. Absolutely. So that's been just a wonderful start to our kind of our co-op or our community experience.

We're also a part of a monthly park day with other Charlotte Mason families in our community. And we're starting our fifth year together now with that group. We have upwards of about 35 families with kids ranging from ages newborn all the way to high schoolers. And yes, the high schoolers still come out and play. And it's just so fun to see all those ages together. Yeah.

But it's predominantly a social group for moms to chat and kids to just have unstructured free time and play. And so they do a game of kickball or capture the flag or just, you know, fun, old fashioned things to play together while the moms talk about curriculum and all the things. And so nice to have a large group because that is something that is hard to do those playground games that we used to enjoy with just, you know, a unit, a family unit.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And so something else we started incorporating is folk dancing with this group. And again, that is hard to do with only four kids at home or even two kids. And so we usually have at least one folk dance per park day that we invite the kids to learn at home and then get to do together.

as a group and we have singing games for the younger kids that we can do together. And then this group also hosts an annual Shakespeare festival that we participate in and each family can get together with another family or just do it on their own. But we just come together and have our morning set with different scenes and monologues and, and, and duos and just really enjoy those times together.

I just want to ask before we move on to the fourth or third, I don't know how you're counting. How long do you meet for your park day? Our park day is, it's once a month, also on Friday mornings. And we start around 9 a.m. And some people stay into the afternoon, but some have other activities. So usually by noon, it's starting to dwindle. Okay. Yeah. And we just meet September through May because it's just too hot otherwise. Okay.

But yeah, so it's still in the park group setting. We also do an annual event

with displaying handicrafts and our keeping work and this is towards the end of the school year so we display the work that's been done by the students and the moms and it's just a fun celebration but also a chance to maybe get ideas for the coming year for our families and we even encourage and allow half-done things because maybe it's a work in progress and just a chance to show you know work done at that setting.

So our newest commitment that we have is a high school group. And that was a few years ago when my oldest was a freshman. We found another family who had also had a freshman son and we started doing high school science labs together and also reading Greek plays together because we just found that those two, we needed more accountability, but also it's just more fun to do labs together. Yeah. Yeah.

And so then as more kids in our group entered high school, we decided to expand it. And so last year was kind of our trial year with a larger group.

And this group meets about once or twice a month, just depending on what we have going on. And we do different things like we also, we still do Greek plays and science labs together, but we've added in modern plays and literature and essay discussions. We do folk dancing. That's more intricate for this older group. You got to arts and cultural events. And it's just been a wonderful opportunity for our high schoolers to have conversations

peer friendships and talk about these deeper books that they're reading and just have that experience. And that typically meets on Saturday evenings because it's just been so hard to schedule during the week with jobs and online classes and different things that high schoolers have going on. So yeah, that's when we typically meet. And then just on a smaller scale, all of my kids throughout the years have been involved in

their own individual book clubs with friends. And oftentimes that's just kind of initiated by them. They will find out, oh, I'm reading Little Women too. Let's all read it together. And so each one has a different group of peer friends that they like to do that with. And it's really mostly student-led. Oftentimes the moms will help kind of narrow down the book choices, especially if we want them to

focus on one for school. But the discussions are primarily just them and those meet online so that it's not a huge time commitment for the family to drive or get to, but it's a kind of a neat touch point for friends to have that connection on their own and to see each other more often.

I love the range of settings and experiences that you have been able to incorporate. And when you said four, I was like, do you do something every day? And how, yeah, you're like, no, really, it's just these. But also very kind of unique to what you hear, the typical Charlotte Mason co-op group activity that you guys are bringing in.

that are the things the kids really want to do together or are so great in groups. Yeah. So how did you know it was time? You said you were, you always were very reticent or reluctant to get involved or to have another thing on your schedule. So what are some markers or moments that you have with your family that you realized, you know, we really could use some learning and community? Yeah.

I think the Nature Club was kind of a no-brainer. I remember early on in the podcast that being a focus of, you know,

let's gather together and go out in nature. And we've always been pretty good about doing that as a family. But I noticed in our area in the desert, a lot of people are hesitant to know where to start and what to do. And I'm not an expert by any means, but I'm very enthusiastic about where we live. I love the desert. I love everything about it. I love the heat. I love the lizards and the cactus and everything. And I just wanted to encourage other families to get excited about that too and see the changes that do happen. They might be microscopic here, but there are changes that

And so I just wanted to encourage other families along. So that was kind of an easy one for us to just do. And it was once a month. So that's pretty low stakes commitment for us. Our part group was really born out of COVID and we had been a part of another social group that shut down and I was really disappointed that we couldn't continue meeting. And so,

I also lead a study group for moms in the Charlotte Mason Method to read her volumes. And so I kind of pulled those families and said, do you guys want to get together for a part group? And most of them said yes. So we just started meeting monthly also. And then so that was kind of an easy transition. Again, once a month wasn't very hard to do. And then as I shouldn't say I'm against co-ops because that's not true. I just...

kind of selfishly have always wanted to do everything with my own kids. I didn't want to have them see an artist print or read a Shakespeare play with another teacher while I was busy teaching someone else. And so those types of things I have just guarded carefully. And, you know, that I feel like that has been beneficial for our family. But as my kids were approaching high school, I saw the need for peer interactions and deeper discussions and, you

I realized it was time to open up to something that was a little uncomfortable for me, to be honest. So we started slow and we got just a few moms together and agreed on what we thought would be best for the group. And, you know, it's been it's been good, but it has been challenging.

a little bit challenging too, just allowing for that time and preparation and opening our homes up and preparing dinner for really hungry teenagers. But the fruit has been so good too. So with that particular group, the high school group, are all of the family's moms also involved or is that one of you kind of heading that up? Yeah.

up each time? It really is a group effort. This is only our second year, so we've just recently had our

planning meeting for the coming year and we just set out the course that we want to follow for the year and then start divvying up leading and hosting and it's pretty balanced to help keep the bird in light for each of us as we prepare. Yeah. Nicole is sitting over here very jealous and wishing she could redo years of her educational experience. Nicole, I am sure there are high school moms out there that would allow you to do this for them.

Absolutely. Yes. Come, come join us, please. We have this road trip planned and I keep thinking, can we hit Arizona? Just wait till like February. Okay.

So I know that one's a newer group and the other one is a little bit longer length of time you've been at it and the nature, you know, you've been doing for years. But already, I bet you're seeing some fruit, some good things come out of these groups. Would you have anything to share with our listeners about what you've seen that's just been a positive thing?

Out of these various community groups. I think each one over time has just added a layer of richness to our family's experiences. I think one of the challenges of homeschooling is that it can feel isolating at times. And I think also even those of us that have chosen the Charlotte Mason method, it can be even possibly more isolating because there might be a lot of homeschoolers in our area, but maybe they don't all kind of get it. Right. What we're doing and why.

And so these groups have just really helped us build friendships with other like-minded families that are doing the same types of things. But they've also provided opportunities to build consistent friendships. So it's not friends we're just seeing once a month. Many of these groups have overlap with the participants. And so we're seeing the same kids every week, maybe in a different setting, but they've become regular friends and I would say lifelong friends. Yeah.

But I'd say also this, the groups they've really expanded our family's homeschool experience. Like we talked about being able to do, you know, larger group activities like a folk dance with 30 kids or putting on a Shakespeare's play or a scene and, you know,

Things we can't do just in a smaller setting. And we've been able to tap into expertise from other families that might be stronger in some areas. I'd never read a Greek play. I didn't even know what a Greek play was. And so having other moms who had done that before in their own high school experience could come alongside and help me out in those weaker areas. Or someone that's stronger in science labs or a literature background.

course, you know, book that we're doing is just has sharpened me as well. And so now I could probably lead those things just as well. But it's just having that pool of expertise to do that. Absolutely.

I'm curious, you mentioned that these are Charlotte Mason homeschoolers that have kind of been born out of your reading group. And I've seen the same thing that you've seen, that not all homeschoolers are the same, right? Charlotte Mason homeschoolers are very particular. But I'm sure there are lots of people who would like to participate in your group. They got to see this beautiful thing you're doing. How do you decide who gets to participate in your groups? Yeah.

Well, or have you ever had to cap it or we do in a way and we

Really, it starts with the study group for moms. There has to be a commitment there from the mom that she's actively learning this method. And we don't obviously police or patrol what they're doing in their own home. That's up to them. But we want to make sure that the people in our community really are on the same page. But that doesn't mean they have to be experts either. They can be brand new and starting out, even if they have older kids and brand new and starting out and joining us. And then...

The groups have really been organic over time. In our study group, we have usually between 13 to 15 moms. And that's where I have to cap it because any bigger and it becomes too hard to have a fruitful discussion, especially for those that might be more introverted. And so that's usually how we cap it. So once we grew to the point where we wanted to invite others, I just spun off another study group and they are thriving and going strong. And they have also around the same number. And then last year,

We had another occasion where more people wanted to join. So we started a third. Wow. That's awesome. Yeah. And so now our part group really is kind of the large group for all three of those study groups to congregate. So we can mix and match and get to know the other moms, but it starts with a study group. And then from there, lots of nature clubs have been birthed out of that. They're not all in mine. I, we only have five families because I, we found that

the smaller the better. Right. So there's multiple nature clubs and multiple little co-ops springing up and little book clubs for kids and things like that. So that's kind of our entry level is you have to be committed to studying her words.

Yeah, that's really beautiful. And I just think of all of like the parallel of churches getting too large and then it usually is not a pretty thing. And this just sounds really beautiful. And because you are all centered around that commitment to the philosophy. Are there any negatives or considerations to make when deciding to participate in a learning community? Yes, definitely. I think everything comes with a cost.

And you have to weigh if that cost is higher or lower than the benefit that you think you're going to gain from the group. I have a business background, so I always kind of see it as a cost-benefit analysis. But I think it's important to really consider how much time and opportunity is going to take away from the home and from your regular schooling and from your home duties and all of that. And then weigh that against the benefit of participating. And that's something that each family will need to consider on their own.

but you can't just think about, well, the event is only an hour. It's not a big deal. No, because you have to think about the planning ahead of time that you've met with other moms over or the prepping for the subject that you might be doing, the travel time, making special meals. Is it going to bother nap time?

for little ones. And then the actual time of the event. And then how tired are we when we get home? Are we going to be able to do more school on that day? Or are we just done? So that's one of the biggest things. And I think that's why...

That we held off so long on doing anything really big because I valued our routine. Our kids valued that. And nap time was super important in those early years and all of that.

So another cost that we have to think about for our family is that because of these groups we're in, they typically meet on Fridays. That means we can really only school at home from Monday through Thursday. And so that means that we have a heavier load on those four days than perhaps other families do that have five days at their disposal. And every year we assess with all the kids and say, are these still worth it? Is it still worth it for you to do maybe an hour extra here and there?

to make sure that we have Friday open. Yeah. Yeah. And I,

I know a lot of people are in that same boat with doing, you know, a co-op or some other type of learning community that takes up. Ours are only in the afternoon. So because I guard that morning time so much. But it sounds like even with your high school group, you meet on Saturdays or Saturday evenings. And those are truly things that would have been done at some other time during your week. Right. So that's actually pulling out some of that extra overflow there.

which is probably a more unique situation than a lot of people who are saying I school four days a week because of our. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's true. I mean, formal lessons take place really Monday through Thursday for us. However, I mean, we're still reading all, all week long and,

doing other things. So education is a life, right? So it's just a part of who we are and it's a fabric of our lives. So, yeah. But you're so right. Like you have to weigh those. Yeah. Adding something you can't, we can't add exponentially, right? We're going to reach capacity. Well, as we wrap up today, what suggestions or questions would you advise parents to consider when seeking fellowship or outside educational opportunities? I think

I think that's easy. The biggest one, obviously, is to pray for wisdom and discernment to see if it's the right season for the opportunity that you're considering. The second, I would say, is to consult with your husband or your spouse. And oftentimes they can see a blind spot that maybe you can't see because you're so enthusiastic about whatever the opportunity is and they can help kind of balance that.

out the situation. And they don't want to live with you if you take on another thing. I know. I know. It's true. I'm not speaking out of experience. I think another big suggestion that we actually tried is to try to do a trial run of something that you're considering. So I'll give you an example of what we did. So I thought it'd be so fun if we got a couple families together to read Shakespeare as a group on a weekly basis instead of just doing it at home. And

And so over the summer, a few years ago, we invited a couple of families over and we just read a few scenes together to see what it was going to be like. And then we went back to our homes and assessed and the other two families were gung ho. They're like, yes, we want to do this. And I talked to my kids and we decided it wasn't for us. And so they went ahead without us, which is wonderful and beautiful. And I love that.

And they're still meeting these two years later, every, every week or, or so they get together and they do Shakespeare together as a family. But for our kids, they just, they, they preferred just us at home, reading it together, acting it out, being silly and crazy and just having that just us. And I, so I think it's, if you have the opportunity to,

So just set a small trial basis to instead of committing to a full year long commitment and then you feel locked and trapped and you can't get out of it or you feel like you might burn a bridge somewhere. Yeah. And I love that you bring that up. Like it was not the right decision for your family, but it was for the other ones in that we think of these things as containing so much.

objective value or something like that, that we forget that we can make individual choices and do not have to do the same thing that our friends and neighbors are doing. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. And I think probably the last thing I would question have as a question is just, and it's the one I'm, I'm working on constantly is just because we can, does it mean that we should?

I think, you know, is this really the best for our family right now? That might be, you know, really, really good, but is it the best use of our time and our money and our resources and our energy? And I, I think of this now, especially with my oldest in his senior year, I've become one of those moms who says to the younger ones, how fast it goes. Yeah. We only get these few precious years and I just, you know, let's make the best decision.

And it's okay to make a mistake and say that was wrong and let's do something different, you know, but let's try our best to have the mindset of really how short our time is. Mm-hmm.

Amen. I feel like you're preaching to the choir here. We're right there with you. So many times we've said that thing this season is the time is so short. I feel like it was just, well, it was just yesterday we started this podcast, right? You guys. And now I'm about to like this coming fall, I will be planning my child's form three or, and I'm realizing he's halfway done. So it just, it does go by fast. Yeah.

Yes. Well, thank you so much for sharing your experience and your wisdom and all of your ideas. I mean,

We have a natural history club that is slowly trying to incorporate a few other things. And I now have a lot more ideas. So I just appreciate it so much. Very unique ideas, too. I think you really bring something to our listening community that's fresh and new that they won't have heard before. So we really appreciate this. I'm happy to help. And I feel like I'm paying...

paying it back after all these years of being on your, listening to your podcast and just gaining from all the wisdom that from you ladies and the guests you've had. I just thank you so much. It's such an opportunity, such a unique treat. It is our pleasure. Thank you, Angie. Thank you. Would you like to go deeper in your knowledge of the Charlotte Mason method? A delectable education has resources available for your continuing education and growth as a Charlotte Mason teacher.

We have a variety of full-length video workshops as well as video demonstration lessons featuring real families using the Charlotte Mason Method that you can watch at your convenience. Visit www.adelectableeducation.com and click on the Teacher Training Videos under the Teacher Tools tab. Thank you for joining us today on the podcast. We hope our discussion serves to equip and encourage you as we seek to explain the Charlotte Mason Method.

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