We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!
Export Podcast Subscriptions
cover of episode Swirling Forces, Crushing Pressures Measured in the Proton

Swirling Forces, Crushing Pressures Measured in the Proton

2024/8/21
logo of podcast Quanta Science Podcast

Quanta Science Podcast

AI Deep Dive AI Chapters Transcript
People
C
Cédric Lorce
F
Fiala Shanahan
F
Francois-Xavier Giraud
L
Latifa Elo-Adriri
P
Peter Schweitzer
V
Volker Burkert
Y
Yoshitaka Hata
Topics
Latifa Elo-Adriri: 我认为这项实验为我们理解物质的基本结构开辟了一个全新的方向,它用全新的视角照亮了质子,改变了我们看待物质基本结构的方式。 这项研究为我们理解物质的基本结构开辟了一个全新的方向,它用全新的视角照亮了质子。几十年来,研究人员一直在仔细绘制带正电粒子的电磁影响图。但新的研究中,杰斐逊实验室的物理学家们则绘制了质子的引力影响图,即质子内部能量、压力和剪切应力的分布,这些分布会弯曲质子内外时空结构。研究人员利用光子对可以模拟引力子的特殊方式来做到这一点。引力子是假设中传递引力的粒子。通过用光子撞击质子,他们间接地推断出引力将如何与质子相互作用,实现了数十年来以这种替代方式探测质子的梦想。 Peter Schweitzer: 我们对质子的了解还很有限,比如我们知道它的总质量,也知道电荷的分布,但不知道物质和能量在质子内部是如何分布的。这项研究极其令人兴奋,因为它让我们能够探测质子内部的压力和力,这些信息以前是无法获得的。 我们对质子的了解还很有限。例如,我们知道它的总质量,也知道电荷是如何分布的(来自电磁形状因子)。但是,物质和能量在质子内部是如何分布的呢?我们不知道。我职业生涯的大部分时间都在思考质子的引力方面的问题,特别是我对质子的能量-动量张量这个矩阵属性很感兴趣。能量-动量张量包含了关于质子的一切信息。爱因斯坦的广义相对论将引力解释为物体沿着时空曲线运动。在这个理论中,能量-动量张量告诉时空如何弯曲。例如,它描述了能量的分布,这是时空扭曲的主要来源。它还跟踪动量是如何分布的,以及哪里会有压缩或膨胀,这些也会轻微地弯曲时空。 Volker Burkert: 实验结果表明质子内部压力分布符合稳定性要求:内部正压,外部负压。这与理论预期一致,如果压力分布不符合这个规律,质子将不稳定。 质子内部的压力分布与理论预期完全一致。质子内部必须存在正压,否则它会坍缩;而质子外部必须存在负压,否则它会爆炸。因此,质子必须是稳定的。实验结果证实了这一点。 Cédric Lorce: 我们没有进行引力实验,而是提取了能量-动量张量的一部分信息。从能量-动量张量出发,根据爱因斯坦相对论,它本质上是引力场的来源,我们可以了解质子应该如何与引力子相互作用。 我们没有进行引力实验,而是提取了能量-动量张量的一部分信息。根据爱因斯坦相对论,能量-动量张量是引力场的来源,因此我们可以了解质子应该如何与引力子相互作用。 Francois-Xavier Giraud: 通过考虑我们在这里学到的知识,我们已经更新了在CERN使用的模型。新的质子图谱可能有助于解决质子最深奥的谜团之一:为什么夸克会结合成质子。 通过考虑我们在这里学到的物理知识,在欧洲核子研究中心(CERN)使用的模型已经过更新。新的图谱还可以帮助我们解决质子最深奥的谜团之一:为什么夸克会结合成质子? Yoshitaka Hata: 杰斐逊实验室的研究团队已经做出了基于现有条件的最佳努力。更精确的质子引力图有待未来更强大的实验设备。 杰斐逊实验室的研究团队已经基于他们所拥有的条件做出了最好的努力。更清晰的质子夸克和胶子的引力图可能在2030年代出现。届时,目前正在布鲁克海文国家实验室建设的电子离子对撞机将开始运行。 Fiala Shanahan: 理论计算结果与实验结果大体一致。这让我很兴奋。 到目前为止,我们的数字发现与杰斐逊实验室的物理发现大体一致。我对最近的实验结果和我们的数据之间的一致性感到非常兴奋。

Deep Dive

Chapters
The proton is explored as a subatomic planet, with experiments revealing details of its interior, including intense pressures and clashing forces. Researchers are mapping the proton's gravitational influence, using photons to mimic gravitons and indirectly infer how gravity interacts with it. This new approach provides information beyond what's available from traditional electromagnetic interactions.
  • Proton's core has pressures exceeding any other known matter
  • Clashing force vortices exist halfway to the surface
  • Proton's size is smaller than previously thought
  • Experiments use photons to mimic gravitons
  • Traditional methods focused on electromagnetic interactions, neglecting other properties

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
中文

Welcome to the Quanta Science Podcast. Each episode, we bring you stories about developments in science and mathematics. I am Susan Vallett. Physicists have begun to explore the proton as if it were a subatomic planet. How are they doing it and what have they found? That's next. ♪

It's season three of The Joy of Why, and I still have a lot of questions. Like, what is this thing we call time? Why does altruism exist? And where is Jan Eleven? I'm here, astrophysicist and co-host, ready for anything. That's right. I'm bringing in the A-team. So brace yourselves. Get ready to learn. I'm Jan Eleven. I'm Steve Strogatz. And this is... Quantum Magazine's podcast, The Joy of Why. New episodes drop every other Thursday.

Cutaway maps display newfound details of the particle's interior. The proton's core features pressures more intense than in any other known form of matter. Halfway to the surface, clashing vortices of force push against each other, and the planet as a whole is smaller than previous experiments had suggested.

The experimental investigations mark the next stage in the quest to understand the particle that anchors every atom and makes up the bulk of our world.

Latifa Elo-Adriri is a physicist at the Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility in Newport News, Virginia. She wasn't involved in the effort. We really see it as opening up a completely new direction that will change our way of looking at the fundamental structure of matter. The experiments literally shine a new light on the proton. Over decades, researchers have meticulously mapped out the electromagnetic influence of the positively charged particle.

But in the new research, the Jefferson Lab physicists are instead mapping the proton's gravitational influence, namely the distribution of energies, pressures, and shear stresses throughout, which bend the spacetime fabric in and around the particle. The researchers do so by exploiting a peculiar way in which pairs of photons, particles of light, can imitate a graviton. That's the hypothesized particle that conveys the force of gravity.

By pinging the proton with photons, they indirectly infer how gravity would interact with it, realizing a decades-old dream of interrogating the proton in this alternative way.

Cédric Lorce is a physicist at the École Polytechnique in France who wasn't involved in the work. Physicists have learned a tremendous amount about the proton over the last 70 years by repeatedly hitting it with electrons.

They know that its electric charge extends roughly 0.8 femtometers, or quadrillionths of a meter, from its center. They know that incoming electrons tend to glance off one of three quarks that buzz about inside it. Just a refresher, quarks are elementary particles with fractions of charge.

Physicists have also observed the deeply strange consequence of quantum theory, where in more forceful collisions, electrons appear to encounter a frothy sea made up of far more quarks as well as gluons, the carriers of the so-called strong force, which glues the quarks together.

All this information comes from a single setup. You fire an electron at a proton, and the particles exchange a single photon, the carrier of the electromagnetic force, and push each other away. This electromagnetic interaction tells physicists how quarks, as charged objects, tend to arrange themselves. But there is a lot more to the proton than its electric charge.

Peter Schweitzer is a theoretical physicist at the University of Connecticut. This is extremely exciting. So, for instance, what do we know about the particle? We know the total mass.

So right now we have, for instance, the information from the electromagnetic form factors how the electric charge is distributed. But how is really matter and energy distributed inside the proton? We don't know. Schweitzer has spent most of his career thinking about the gravitational side of the proton. Specifically, he's interested in a matrix of properties of the proton called the energy-momentum tensor. So the energy-momentum tensor knows like everything

there is to be known about the particle. Albert Einstein's theory of general relativity casts gravitational attraction as objects following curves in spacetime.

In that theory, the energy-momentum tensor tells spacetime how to bend. For instance, it describes the arrangement of energy, the source of the lion's share of spacetime twisting. It also tracks information about how momentum is distributed, as well as where there will be compression or expansion, which can also lightly curve spacetime.

Russian and American physicists independently worked out in the 1960s that if we could learn the shape of spacetime surrounding a proton, we could infer all the properties indexed in its energy-momentum tensor.

Those include the proton's mass and spin, which are already known, along with the arrangement of the proton's pressures and forces. That's a collective property physicists refer to as the "druck" term, after the word for "pressure" in German. One global property is just the mass, another is just the spin, and there is a third one as important as mass and spin. That's the "druck" term. And nobody knows what it is. Because so far we had no way of measuring it.

Though that's starting to change. In the 60s, it seemed as if measuring the energy-momentum tensor and calculating the droop term would require a gravitational version of the usual scattering experiment. You fire a massive particle at a proton and let the two exchange a graviton, the hypothetical particle that makes up gravitational waves, rather than a proton.

But due to the extreme weakness of gravity, physicists expect graviton scattering to occur 39 orders of magnitude more rarely than photon scattering. Experiments can't possibly detect such a weak effect.

Volker Burkert is a member of the Jefferson Lab team. I remember reading this when I was a student. A summary that he put into his paper says, unfortunately, because the gravity is so extremely weak, we will probably never be able to learn anything about mechanical properties of particles.

He was talking about particles like the proton. Gravitational experiments are still unimaginable today, but research in the late 1990s and early 2000s by physicist Shin Dong-ji and, working separately, the late Maxim Polyakov, revealed a workaround. The general scheme is the following.

When you fire an electron lightly at a proton, it usually delivers a photon to one of the quarks and glances off. But in fewer than one in a billion events, something special happens. The incoming electron sends in a photon. A quark absorbs it, and then emits another photon a heartbeat later. The key difference is that this rare event involves two photons instead of one, both incoming and outgoing photons.

Gies and Polyakov's calculations showed that if experimentalists could collect the resulting electron, proton, and photon, they could infer from the energies and momentums of these particles what happened with the two photons. And that two-photon experiment would be essentially as informative as the impossible graviton scattering experiment. How could two photons know anything about gravity?

The answer involves gnarly mathematics, but physicists have two ways of thinking about why the trick works. Photons are ripples in the electromagnetic field. They can be described by a single arrow, a vector, at each location in space indicating the field's value and direction.

Gravitons would be ripples in the geometry of spacetime. There's a more complicated field represented by a combination of two vectors at every point. Capturing a graviton would give physicists two vectors of information. Short of that, two photons can stand in for a graviton, since they also collectively carry two vectors of information. But here's an alternative interpretation of the math.

During the moment that elapses between when a quark absorbs the first photon and when it emits the second, the quark follows a path through space. By probing this path, we can learn about properties, like the pressures and forces that surround the path. Here's physicist Cedric Lorce. We are not doing gravitational experiments. We can extract part of the information that you will attribute to the energy momentum tensor.

And from the initial momentum tensor, since it is essentially the source of the gravitational fields according to Einstein relativity, we say we should learn how a proton should interact with a graviton. The Jefferson Lab physicists scraped together a few two-photon scattering events in 2000. That proof of concept motivated them to build a new experiment, an experiment

And in 2007, they smashed electrons into protons enough times to amass roughly a half million graviton-mimicking collisions. Analyzing the experimental data took another decade. From their Index of Space-Time Bending Properties, the team extracted the elusive Druk term, publishing their estimate of the protons' internal pressures in nature in 2018.

They found that in the heart of the proton, the strong force generates pressures of unimaginable intensity, 100 billion trillion trillion pascals, or about 10 times the pressure of the heart of a neutron star. Farther out from the center, the pressure falls and eventually turns inward.

Here's Burckert again. This is exactly how it should be in principle. There has to be positive pressure inside. If the pressure were negative, it would collapse. And the outer part being the opposite case, if it were positive, it would explode. So this proton would not be stable at all. So this comes out of the experiment. It shows, yes, the proton is actually stable. The Jefferson Lab group continued to analyze the Druk term.

As part of a review published in December of 2023, they released an estimate of the shear forces. Those are the internal forces pushing parallel to the proton surface. The physicists found that close to its core, the proton experiences a twisting force that gets neutralized by a twisting in the other direction nearer the surface. These measurements also underscore the particle's stability.

The twists had been expected based on theoretical work from Schweitzer and Polyakov. Now, they're using these tools to calculate the proton's size in a new way. In traditional scattering experiments, physicists had observed that the particle's electric charge extends about 0.8 femtometers from its center. That's the area where its constituent quarks buzz around.

but that charge radius has some quirks. For instance, in the neutron, the proton's neutral counterpart, two negatively charged quarks tend to hang out deep inside the particle, while one positively charged quark spends more time near the surface.

In that case, the charge radius comes out as a negative number. Here's Schweitzer again. It doesn't mean the size is negative. It's just not a faithful measure for the size of the system. The new approach measures the region of spacetime that's significantly curved by the proton. In a preprint, the Jefferson lab team calculated that this radius may be about 25 percent smaller than the charge radius, or just 0.6 femtometers.

Conceptually, this kind of analysis smooths out the blurry dance of quarks into a solid planet-like object, with pressures and forces acting on each speck of volume.

That frozen planet doesn't fully reflect the proton in all its quantum glory, but it's a useful model. Or as Schweitzer says: "This is like an interpretation. And then you can wonder, 'Hmm, does it bring us something?'" Physicists stress that the initial maps are rough, for a few reasons. First, precisely measuring the energy-momentum tensor would require much higher collision energies than Jefferson Lab can produce.

The team has worked hard to carefully extrapolate trends from the relatively low energies they can access, but physicists remain unsure how accurate these extrapolations are.

Plus, the proton is more than its quarks. It also contains gluons, which slosh around with their own pressures and forces. The two-photon trick can't detect gluon's effects. A separate team at Jefferson Lab used an analogous trick involving a double-gluon interaction to publish a preliminary gravitational map of these gluon effects in nature last year. But that was also based on limited low-energy data.

Yoshitaka Hata is a physicist at Brookhaven National Laboratory. He was inspired to start studying the gravitational proton after the Jefferson Lab Group's 2018 work. It's a fast step, right? They did the best based on what they have. Sharper gravitational maps of both the proton's quarks and its gluons may come in the 2030s.

That's when the Electron-Ion Collider, an experiment currently under construction at Brookhaven, will begin operations. In the meantime, physicists are pushing ahead with digital experiments. Fiala Shanahan, a nuclear and particle physicist at MIT, leads a team that computes the behavior of quarks and gluons starting from the equations of the strong force.

In 2019, she and her collaborators estimated the pressures and shear forces, and in October of last year, they estimated the radius, among other properties. So far, their digital findings have broadly aligned with Jefferson Lab's physical ones. Shanahan says she's quite excited by the consistency between recent experimental results and their data.

Even the blurry glimpses of the proton attained so far have gently reshaped researchers' understanding of the particle.

some consequences are practical. At CERN, the European organization that runs the Large Hadron Collider, the world's largest proton smasher, physicists had previously assumed that in certain rare collisions, quarks could be anywhere within the colliding protons. But the gravitationally inspired maps suggest that quarks tend to hang out near the center in such cases.

Francois-Xavier Giraud is a Jefferson Lab physicist who worked on the experiments. By taking into account what we learn here, the physics we investigate here, already models that are used at CERN have been updated. The new maps may also offer guidance toward resolving one of the deepest mysteries of the proton. Why quarks bind themselves into protons at all.

There's an intuitive argument that because the strong force between each pair of quarks intensifies as they get further apart, like an elastic band, quarks can never escape from their comrades. But protons are made from the lightest members of the quark family, and lightweight quarks can also be thought of as lengthy waves extending beyond the proton's surface.

This picture suggests that the binding of the proton may come about not only through the internal pulling of elastic bands, but through some external interaction between these wavy, drawn-out quarks. The pressure map shows the attraction of the strong force extending all the way out to 1.4 femtometers and beyond, bolstering the argument for such alternative theories.

Giroux says it's not a definite answer, but it points toward the fact that these simple images with elastic bands are not relevant for light quarks. Arlene Santana helped with this episode. I'm Susan Vallett. For more on this story, read Charlie Wood's full article, Swirling Forces, Crushing Pressures Measured in the Proton, on our website, quantummagazine.org.

Quantum Magazine is an editorially independent online publication supported by the Simons Foundation to enhance public understanding of science.