This Week in YouTube April 27
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Hey friends, welcome to the Renaissance English History Podcast. This is the weekly highlight reel of videos that I have put out on YouTube. So in case you don't know, you can go over to YouTube and watch all my videos. The channel is History and Coffee, and you can just search for my name as well, Heather Tesco, History and Coffee, and you will get it. And you can subscribe there. Thank you to the many people who already subscribe. And then what I've started doing is

weekly highlight reels of some of the videos that have gone out on YouTube that would be of interest to the podcast listeners as well. So thanks for listening. And you can also, like I said, go over and join me on YouTube history and coffee and search for Heather. And there I am. So let's get right into it. Today we are going to talk more about Wolf Hall, the second episode aired in the UK on Sunday of The Mirror and the Light. I

I did a video on Monday or Tuesday talking about was Cromwell really going to marry Princess Mary because that's something that was portrayed, the rumor of that was portrayed in the second episode. The other main thing that came in that second episode was we saw Lady Margaret Douglas and her secret marriage and we saw Cromwell interrogating her and the kind of repercussions and fallout from that. So today we're going to talk

about the truth of what happened with Lady Margaret Douglas and her secret marriage, which is indeed historically accurate. We're going to talk about how Cromwell might have been involved, what we know about how he might have been involved, and what was an interpretation, that kind of thing. So let's get started and dig right in. So let's talk a little bit about who Lady Margaret Douglas was and this secret marriage that she had. So it's the summer of 1536. Henry is basked

asking in his new marriage to Jane Seymour, and hopeful for his long-awaited male heir, and scandal erupts in his court. His beloved niece, Lady Margaret Douglas, secretly pledged herself to Lord Thomas Howard, a move that set the court ablaze with whispers of treason and ambition.

is the story of how Margaret's love affair nearly toppled her future and the life of her lover and brought her under the sharp scrutiny of Thomas Cromwell. Someone whose sharp scrutiny you never wanted to attract.

So Margaret was born in 1515. She was the daughter of Margaret Tudor, Henry VIII's older sister, and Archibald Douglas, the Earl of Angus. So Margaret Tudor had married into Scotland, her husband had died, and then she remarried Archibald Douglas, Earl of Angus. This makes Lady Margaret Douglas...

Very important. Henry's daughters, Mary and Elizabeth, are still at this point declared illegitimate after his marriages to Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn unraveled. Margaret Douglas was seen as a potential heir to the English throne. She was of the three of three women there. She was the only one who wasn't declared illegitimate. So good for her.

Margaret's early life had been shaped by the dramatic fallout of her parents' turbulent marriage. Her mother had scandalized both England and Scotland by marrying the Earl of Angus, Archibald Douglas, following the death of her first husband. That was James IV. So when James IV died, Margaret Douglas is the dowager, she's the regent, but she then remarries. And the politics in Scotland were...

to the Tudor court in England, and so that kind of scandalized everybody. She had to flee for her safety. Margaret Tudor had. Henry's sister had to flee for her safety more than once, often with her young daughter, Lady Margaret Douglas, in tow. Eventually, Margaret was sent to England. Margaret Douglas, the daughter, was sent to England

was sent to England, she lived at Scotland Yard. You know, it's funny because we think of Scotland Yard as where the police are, and no, we're going to call Scotland Yard. But it was actually a royal residence in Westminster named for its association with the Scottish monarchy. So Lady Margaret Douglas was living at Scotland Yard.

where she was brought up in this political upheaval, not around her mother, but her uncle, Henry VIII, did dote on her completely, just loved her, loved her, loved her. Henry made sure that she was well-placed at court. He showered her with gifts and favor. But her position was always going to be precarious. Her royal blood came with high expectations, and her actions could have far-reaching consequences.

in fifteen thirty six margaret fell in love with lord thomas howard lord thomas howard was a younger son in the powerful howard family though thomas was from one of england's most noble houses he was far beneath margaret in status he was a younger son

Their engagement was a reckless gamble in the treacherous world of Tudor politics. Margaret, at that point, they would have wanted her for an international marriage. Henry didn't have tons of kids to marry off and have alliances with, so he would have wanted to save his niece for an international marriage, something that could help diplomatically, not just have her marry for love, which that in and of itself was like, why would you do that?

The nobility didn't particularly marry for love. They married for alliances. And then to someone so far beneath her, it was pretty scandalous when it happened. The relationship was kept secret, but secrets did not last very long in the Tudor court. When news of the engagement reached the king, he was livid.

The implications were both personal and political. With his marriage to Jane Seymour still quite fresh and no male heir yet born, the Tudor succession was fragile and Margaret's engagement to Thomas Howard could be interpreted as a direct challenge to the throne, particularly since Thomas Howard's uncle, who was the Duke of Norfolk,

was already a pretty high power broker in court. The Duke of Norfolk had also been Anne Boleyn's uncle. So he was really high up there, involved in everything. And so for Lord Thomas Howard to marry the niece of the king who is in the line of succession, that could show that he maybe had some eyes on the succession himself.

Now, Thomas Cromwell was the king's chief minister at this point. And given the nature of how sensitive it was, the ranks of the people involved, he would have played a central role in handling the fallout from the scandal. In the series, they show Cromwell interrogating Margaret, showing his kind of dual loyalties. He was completely loyal to the king, but he also privately understood how love had the power to destroy people and, you know,

could have a power all on its own. Under intense pressure, Margaret admitted her engagement to Thomas, but she denied any treasonous intent. Nevertheless, Henry was unforgiving.

Both Margaret and Thomas were imprisoned in the Tower of London. This was a chilling reminder of the consequences of defying Henry VIII. An act of attainder was passed against Thomas, accusing him of aspiring to marry Margaret to place himself in line for the throne. The act also introduced a new law. No member of the royal family could ever marry without the king's explicit permission. While Margaret languished in the Tower, Thomas Howard's fate was sealed.

Though his death sentence was not immediately carried out, he remained imprisoned in very harsh conditions. He got ill and he died in the Tower of 1537, likely of malnutrition or disease. He was only 26 years old.

margaret's imprisonment was less severe but still quite humiliating after falling ill herself she was moved to sion abbey her mother margaret tudor henry's sister was writing these desperate pleas asking him to move her really trying to fight for her but there wasn't really anything she could do either

By 1537, she was released and was gradually returned to the king's good graces, though the episode would leave a shadow over her reputation. This episode did harden Margaret Douglas, and in later years, she would become a very shrewd political operator, very, very deeply involved in Tudor succession intrigues.

The law forbidding royal marriages without the king's consent would also have lasting consequences. It showed Henry's determination to control the dynasty and protect his legacy at all costs, even if it meant crushing the romantic aspirations of his own family. Despite the scandal, Margaret Douglas's life did not end in ruin. She went on to marry Matthew Stuart, the Earl of Lennox.

and became the mother of Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley. Now, if that name sounds familiar to you, it is because Lord Darnley married Mary, Queen of Scots, and together they had James VI of Scotland, who then became the future James I of England, who united the crowns of England and Scotland after the death of Elizabeth I.

Now, how was Thomas Cromwell involved in the interrogation the way they show it in Wolf Hall? The historical records showing Cromwell's direct involvement in interrogating either Margaret Douglas or Thomas Howard are sparse, but there are enough clues to build a nuanced narrative based on his role as Henry's chief minister and the way he handled similar cases.

So here's what we can reasonably infer or speculate, along with some insights as to whether others in Cromwell's circle, such as somebody like Richard Rich or Rafe Sadler, might have been involved.

First, direct interrogations. So there's no specific evidence in contemporary records that Cromwell personally interrogated either Margaret or Thomas, but it is entirely possible given his position. Cromwell oversaw most major investigations and interrogations on behalf of the king, particularly when they involve very sensitive political issues. If the matter was as critical as this, directly tied to the succession and the potential breach of royal authority, Cromwell would likely have been involved.

Then there was his role as an intermediary. Cromwell often worked as Henry's trusted intermediary, handling sensitive matters with discretion. His legal training and methodical nature made him adept at extracting confessions and ensuring that evidence was aligned with the king's objectives. He would likely have conducted an initial investigation or coordinated a team of interrogators to handle it under his supervision.

And then there's the documentation of evidence. Cromwell was meticulous about recording confessions and correspondence. If he did not personally interrogate Margaret or Thomas, he would have overseen those who did,

and ensured that their testimonies were well documented in detail to justify the act of attainder against Thomas Howard. In terms of the historical and dramatic elements in Wolfe Hall, the depiction of his interrogation of Margaret is a dramatic interpretation, of course, but it does align with his known responsibilities. It's worth noting that Margaret did confess.

So if Cromwell or his team interrogated her, they might have framed her relationship as naive rather than treasonous to avoid alienating Henry entirely from his beloved niece. And that is how it was framed. Thomas Howard's confession might have been obtained under duress.

or through the promise of leniency, though it ultimately did not save him from imprisonment and an act of attainder. And then Cromwell's interrogation style. Historical accounts do show Cromwell as calm and calculating rather than overtly threatening.

If he questioned Margaret, he likely appealed to her fear of the king's wrath and emphasized her precarious position as a royal woman defying the king's authority. So there we have it, my friend, a little bit about Lady Margaret Douglas, her scandalous secret marriage, and how Cromwell might have been involved. I'm really loving Wolf Hall being back on, huh? Are you loving it? I'm totally loving it. It's, uh, I've missed it. Really missed it.

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Make it a Vrbo.

Today is Monday, November 25th, which means Wolf Hall was on yesterday in the UK, and I have another story.

reaction video about that because there was a lot in this third episode of the second season of Wolf Hall. We start out with Sister Dorothy and we're going to talk about who that character was. She was also in the last episode and I didn't talk about her in that kind of Heather Reacts video that I did on that. So we're going to talk about who that character represents. Was she real? Was she not? You got to stay tuned to find out.

So Jane stands up for the people who are participating in this rebellion. This rebellion, of course, is the largest rebellion that will threaten Henry's reign in his entire reign. That is the Pilgrimage of Grace. So we're going to talk about the Pilgrimage of Grace. And I actually did a video a couple of years ago on Jane Seymour and how she stuck up for the rebels.

I think I captioned it something like, or titled it something like, did Jane really have secret gumption? Because so often the stereotype of Jane is that she was, you know, just kind of very meek and mild and opposite of Anne Boleyn. And just, you know, you see Henry says jump and she says, okay, hello. And she actually had a spine and it comes out when she's sticking up for the rebels, much to her detriment. And then we have,

Cromwell trying to potentially marry Jane's sister Elizabeth to his son, but there was like a mix-up with that. And then we have Don Diego and the marriage negotiations with Mary, Princess Mary. So we're going to talk about those four things. Oh, and at the very end, they talk about the Duke of Norfolk about...

Thomas Howard, and they hint again at that love affair that's going on, the secret marriage with Lady Margaret Douglas and Thomas Howard, related to the Duke of Norfolk. And we talk about that.

I did a video on that last week, so I'm not going to talk about that at all. But so mostly I'm going to talk about who was the Sister Dorothy character, Jane standing up for the rebels, the fact that Cromwell did marry his son off to Elizabeth Seymour, and the ideas around Mary, Princess Mary's marriage negotiations.

All right, so we're going to start by talking about this relationship that Woolsey had, Cardinal Woolsey, with Joan, who was his mistress, and the illegitimate children that they had. So Joan Lark, she was from Norfolk. She lived in London at the time, and she became Woolsey's mistress later.

About 1509, this was when Cardinal Wolsey had become the almoner to the new king. Henry VIII had just become the king. Wolsey was his almoner. Joan becomes his mistress. They did have two children together. Thomas Winter was born in 1510. He became the dean of Wells. And then Dorothy Clancy, the sister Dorothy, and she did become a nun. She was born in 1512.

So Thomas was sent to live with a family in Wilsdon,

And Dorothy was adopted by John Clancy, who was the alderman of Worcester, and then became a nun at Shaftesbury Abbey. After the abbey was dissolved, Thomas Cromwell did make sure that she had a pension and that she was cared for. It, of course, was becoming difficult for Woolsey to have a mistress. It wasn't seen as particularly seemly as he was rising through the court. So he actually did arrange for Joan to get married to a George Lee and

And they went on to have four children of their own. And he paid her dowry and ensured that she would be able to make a good marriage. Interesting thing about Thomas Winter is that, like I said, he became the Dean of Wells. He had actually gone to Padua to read Divinity. The king paid for him to do that. And then he returned to England. He didn't have any money after he returned to England because Woolsey had fallen. Woolsey had been out of favor.

Anne Boleyn actually helped to support him, even though her and Woolsey had been at odds earlier. Of course, she helped to support Woolsey's illegitimate son. So that sister Dorothy is based on a real person. Her name was Dorothy Clancy. She was Woolsey's illegitimate daughter. It was out in the open. People knew about it. It wasn't something that was hidden per se.

And she became a nun, Shaftesbury Abbey, and Cromwell did make sure she had a pension after the Abbey was dissolved. All right. Now, the next part, James Seymour pleading on behalf of the rebels of the Pilgrimage of Grace. The Pilgrimage of Grace, like I said, was, in fact, the largest rebellion during Henry's reign, the one that threatened him the most. Now, James was pretty traditional in her views.

But a lot of people had concern as well with the dissolution of the monasteries about what would replace the monasteries. The monasteries provided a lot of social services to Tudor England. They did a lot of the education, schooling.

hospitals, taking care of the poor. In every town, in every village where there was a monastery, that was where you went, the hotels, the places you travelers would stay. They were the school, like I said, but there was a whole host of social services that the monasteries provided. And as they were dissolved, there was a lot of concern about who was going to step in. Was the government going to step in to do that? Were the landowners who were buying these lands, the noblemen, were they going to step in?

And that's where a lot of the anger about the pilgrimage of Greece or the anger that started the pilgrimage of Greece came from. All of these rules got passed.

during this period about taking away the holy days, holidays, taking away people's ability to pray to particular saints. And that went as far as childbirth. For centuries, women had worn the girdles, these mystical girdles that were supposedly belonged to Mary or who knows. It was a whole thing. Elizabeth of York, I think there was records of her having paid the Westminster Abbey. They had

A girdle that belonged to some saint somewhere. And it was this thing that when you went into childbirth or went into labor, you would have this girdle and you would pray to certain saints.

That all became illegal with the Reformation. They actually said that, I don't know how they were, they thought they were going to enforce this because, you know, having been through labor myself, I can tell you, it's not like you're really watching your words when all of that is happening. But yeah, it became the law that you couldn't pray to these saints. It was a whole personal invasion of people's faith that they had grown up on, that they had

held sacred for years and years and years. In London and in the southern part of the country, there was more interest in the Reformation. There was more of a relationship with Germany and the Low Countries and the places where Protestantism was taking off. Another 300 miles away, up in the north of England,

They didn't have that kind of relationship. And there wasn't that kind of interest in the Reformation. People were very concerned about their way of life. People were very concerned about the government telling them who they could and couldn't pray to. And then also, well, what happened to the hospital? What happened to the schools? Like, are you got what's going to happen to our entire lives up here? And so, yeah, there was a lot of concern about that. So she did. So Jane did publicly intercede for the rebels to Henry.

This was a big deal. Now, on one hand, it was a big deal. On the other hand, it was also the traditional role of queens to plead for mercy, right? This is something that

You see this a lot when Catherine of Aragon had done it when there was a rebellion in London earlier in the century. She had done this to Henry, pleading for leniency against the rebels. This was a pretty standard playbook for the way royalty would operate. The king would be really harsh. Then the queen would come in and beg for mercy. And the king would say, OK, well, I have to give in because, look, the queen is asking me to. And that's how that went. Yeah.

So Jane kind of preempted. There hadn't been any sentences or anything yet that happened when she had stepped in. So she was kind of preemptively doing it. And yes, she did ask him to show mercy. And there were some rumors that she supported the rebellion up in the north. They actually called her good queen Jane. And they thought that she was going to be able to bring back Catholicism, also bringing Princess Mary back to court.

There was the thought that she might be able to bring back Catholicism, but there is no evidence directly linking her to the rebels. There's no evidence that shows she supported the rebellion. There's no evidence linking her to any of the leaders of the rebellion, anything like that. But she did publicly intercede. And this is where we have the famous line that Henry told her she should be mindful of what happened to Anne Boleyn.

And she should kind of stay in her lane, right? Stay in her place and remember what happened to other people who tried to intercede and tell him how to how to reign. So must have been petrifying for Queen Jane. So now the next part that was kind of a big deal in the third episode.

Cromwell marrying his son Gregory to Jane Seymour's sister Elizabeth and the idea that there might have been a mix-up and Elizabeth thought that she she wasn't sure which Cromwell she was going to marry did because Cromwell just kind of went up and said let's talk about marriage and the Seymour family thought it meant to him but he was actually referring to his son Gregory and

Yeah, so there's no actual contemporary evidence. There's no letters or anything like that saying that anything like that happened.

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With that said, yes, Cromwell did marry his son Gregory to Elizabeth. She had been married to Sir Anthony Ugtred, and he died in 1534. So Gregory did marry Elizabeth. They were married for 10 years. She died in 1547. He died in 1551, probably of the sweating sickness. There was a really bad sweating sickness outbreak that year. Um...

Interestingly, after his father was executed, he did become a baron and he continued to serve Henry VIII, which would be awkward, but...

That's how it went. And so, yeah, he stayed married to Elizabeth Seymour. And there's no evidence that there was any kind of drama around which Cromwell was she marrying. With that said, there was always drama at court, right? And Cromwell was a widower and wasn't married. And that probably would have been unusual, especially for somebody like him, who was clearly rising through the ranks and had a lot of money. Why wouldn't he get married and have more children and all of that?

But he didn't, which is part of, I think, what adds to...

what makes him unique and unusual. He did not get remarried. And this was just a marriage set up for his son. So no drama there as far as we can tell, but it makes a really great story, doesn't it? It's a great narrative. And as far as then we have Don Diego de Mendoza coming to pursue, to propose to Mary and some intrigue there. So Mary at this point is back at court and she's back in favor.

But she's still considered illegitimate. So this is key, and this would affect her marriage prospects.

No major prince of Europe is going to want to marry his son into a family where the daughter is considered illegitimate or is legally illegitimate at this point. And very important, Henry never actually did legitimize Mary and Elizabeth. He put them back in the succession in his will and

And his third act for the succession, I think it was. But he never officially legitimized them. So Mary is illegitimate at this point. Elizabeth is illegitimate, too, which later in her reign would be part of why people wanted to depose her and bring in Mary, Queen of Scots. So there were marriage negotiations going on for her at this time.

And she would have liked to have been married. She would have liked to have been a mother. You see her later with the phantom pregnancies that she had and how quickly she got married as soon as she became queen. She had been engaged to Charles V when she was young, just as a young child.

And then he got married in 1524 and that ended. And then the whole saga happened with Anne Boleyn and she was out of favor. So nothing ever happened with her marriage at that point. So now by 1536, 37, she's back in favor. Jane Seymour is advocating for her.

But Jane Seymour would die then in childbirth and she's illegitimate. So also her marriage was a diplomatic bargaining chip. It was something that Henry was going to use to further England. And it was a tricky line to walk because he wouldn't have wanted her to marry underneath him. She was the daughter of a king.

And she was the illegitimate daughter of a king, officially. So it made it all very muddy for Mary. This Don Diego Hurtado de Mendoza, he was a Spanish diplomat and a poet, and he was active in European politics. But his role in marriage negotiations with Mary seems to be more of a

historical license added for dramatic tension. And it certainly did bring that. So that's the story on Mary and her marriage negotiations. Don Diego also shows up later. He was sent to England to try to negotiate the marriage between Henry VIII after Henry VIII was a widower and Christina of Denmark. And that's where she makes her famous comment that if she had two heads, she'd be happy to give one to Henry. While he was there, he was also trying to negotiate a marriage for Prince Louis of Portugal with Mary.

tutor as well so both of those failed so we will leave it there for right now I really enjoyed episode three that was that was a good one thanks so much for listening to this week's YouTube highlights remember you can go over and subscribe history and coffee Heather Tesco you will find me there and we'll be back again next week with more highlights from what went out on YouTube throughout the week thanks so much have a great week

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Money works better here. Go to Wealthfront.com to start today. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC member FINRA SIPC. Wealthfront is not a bank. The APY on cash deposits as of December 27, 2024 is representative, subject to change, and requires no minimum. Funds in the cash account are swept to partner banks where they earn the variable APY.