She believes experiences create lasting memories and provide opportunities for shared enjoyment, unlike material gifts that often lose their appeal quickly.
It enhances skills, improves safety, and adds new capabilities, making it a rewarding investment in oneself.
It increases precision, improves multitasking abilities, and enhances overall flying smoothness.
She learned to prioritize passenger comfort by optimizing actions like propeller control to minimize noise and deceleration.
It helps overcome the fear of stalls by providing experience with stall recovery and a better understanding of aircraft behavior beyond the stall point.
These courses teach safe maneuvering techniques in high-terrain environments, addressing specific challenges like canyon turns and avoiding common misconceptions about mountain flying procedures.
It improves rudder control, enhances directional stability awareness, and teaches effective use of peripheral vision for ground operations.
It optimizes scan patterns, improves the pilot's ability to manage information effectively, and helps prevent emergencies arising from unfamiliarity with complex systems.
They provide comprehensive training in all phases of instrument flight, including departures, en route procedures, and altitude selection, building pilot confidence for actual instrument travel.
Water vapor displaces denser air molecules (nitrogen and oxygen), reducing air density and thus decreasing lift and aircraft performance. This effect can be significant, ranging from an 11% performance decrease at higher altitudes to a 32% decrease at lower altitudes.
It significantly increases the risk of a stall/spin accident, especially at lower speeds.
It's an opportunity to address weaknesses, hone skills, and explore new areas of aviation, contributing to safer and more proficient flying.
You've probably found that every time you get a new pilot certificate or rating, it makes you a better pilot. Today, we're talking with Dr. Catherine Cavagnaro about eight different flight training experiences you can do to make you a better pilot. So be generous to yourself and do one or more of these training experiences in the coming year.
We'll also talk about why humidity impacts aircraft performance and more importantly, how to calculate that effect on your performance. I'll also talk about my latest article in this month's Flying Magazine. And if the government does shut down this weekend, we'll have a special episode in the next few days to tell you about the ramifications to pilots.
And a quick reminder that you're running out of time to get $100 off on the Lightspeed Zulu 3 headset. You have until January 13th to get that headset for just $799. And to get that deal, go to aviationnewstalk.com slash lightspeed. Hello again and welcome to Aviation News Talk, where we talk general aviation. My name is Max Trescott. I've been flying for, yeah, over 50 years. I'm the author of several books and the 2008 National Flight Instructor of the Year. And my mission is to help you become the safest possible pilot.
Last week in episode 359, we talked with Dr. Quay Snyder, an expert in aerospace medicine, about the critical role of sleep and tips for getting a good night's sleep. So if you didn't hear that episode, you may want to check it out at aviationnewstalk.com slash 359.
And if you're new to the show, welcome. Glad you found us. Now, so you stick around in whatever app that you're using to listen to us, touch either the subscribe key, or if you're using the Spotify or Apple podcast app, the follow key. So that next week's episode is downloaded for free.
And this is a listener-supported show, and we depend on support from people like you. So if you haven't donated to the show yet, now would be a great time to do that. Head on out to aviationnewstalk.com slash support, where you'll find links to support the show via PayPal, Venmo, Zelle, and Patreon. And when you make a donation, I'll read your name on the show. Coming up in the news for the week of December 15th, 2024, two people are confirmed dead in Hawaii on a Kamaka Airlines plane.
A Southwest jet lands on a runway occupied by a Diamond DA-40 and a 787 is forced to divert because of stinky cargo. All this and more, and then news starts now.
From KHON2.com to confirm dead in Kamaka Airlines crash. A Kamaka Air Cessna 208 Grand Caravan, November 689 Kilo Alpha, was destroyed when it crashed into a vacant building shortly after takeoff from runway 4L at Daniel Inouye International Airport in Honolulu. Both pilots sustained fatal injuries. According to recordings from LiveATC, after takeoff, the tower said, Kamaka Flight 689, you're turning right, correct? Correct.
They responded, Kamaka 689, we are out of control here. Tower said, okay, Kamaka 689, if you can land, if you can level it off, that's fine. Any runway, any place you can do. And that was the last transmission.
EDSB data shows the airplane lifted off the runway at 91 knots. A few seconds later, the airplane was observed in a left bank, contrary to the expected right turn. The left bank became worse over a 15-second period, which continued until the end of the track. Videos were consistent with the data and showed the airplane in a steep left bank.
The airplane impacted the side of a vacant building in a near vertical attitude. A post-crash fire ensued. Kamaka Air has a fleet of six Cessna caravans and one Cessna Sky Courier. According to FAA records, one pilot held a commercial flight certificate and a CFI certificate and a first-class medical. The other pilot was reportedly a student for Kamaka Air and working to get his license. According to the Molokai Dispatch,
Kamaka Air temporarily halted its flights on June 5th due to personnel issues, but resumed flights a few weeks later. From PaddleYourOwnCanoe.com, investigators are probing an accident at Long Beach Airport that occurred in October when a Southwest Airlines Boeing 737 landed on a runway still occupied by a Diamond DA-40.
Although the incident took place nearly two months ago, it's only now coming to light after the NTSB published a preliminary report. The flight, Southwest 1671, was landing at Long Beach after a one-hour flight from San Francisco on October 19th when the tower cleared the pilots to land on runway 30. Unbeknownst to the pilots of the jet, the Diamond DA-40 had already been cleared to land on the same runway and then to hold short of an intersecting runway because another aircraft was due to cross.
At around 2.49 p.m., the crew of the DA-40 informed ATC that they were holding short of the intersecting runway as advised. Just 15 seconds later, the pilots of the Southwest jet advised the tower that there was an aircraft on the same runway that they had landed on. By then, the Southwest had already slowed down to taxiing speed and was able to turn off the runway before reaching the Diamond. Both planes were able to taxi to their parking positions without incident.
From thehill.com, pilots of aircraft that have been misidentified as drones have been hit with lasers, the FBI revealed on Monday.
Quote, FBI, Newark and New Jersey State Police want to warn the public about an increase in pilots of manned aircraft being hit in the eyes with lasers because people on the ground think they see an unmanned aircraft system or UAS, the FBI's field office in Newark said. There is also a concern with people possibly firing weapons at what they believe to be a UAS, but could be a manned aircraft.
The FBI's Newark office said in the statement there could be dangerous and possibly deadly consequences if manned aircraft are targeted mistakenly as UAS. They said there are many different websites and mobile applications the public can access that show flight paths for manned aircraft, satellites in Earth orbit, stars and planets visible on a given evening that can help people determine if they're seeing a UAS or something else.
And in a related story from avweb.com, the FAA institutes multiple TFRs in response to New Jersey drones. Earlier this week, the FAA instituted a system of 22 new TFRs prohibiting flight of UAS within several specific areas in New Jersey. Special permission will be required to operate drones within the airspace. The TFRs will remain in effect until January 17th.
TFRs had already been established over the Picatinny Arsenal and the Trump National Golf Club and remain in effect. The new TFRs appear to focus on areas along the approach paths to Newark Liberty International Airport, as well as some areas of critical infrastructure, such as the PSE&G, Public Service Electric and Gas, facility in Branchburg, New Jersey. According to a NOTAM, officials have authority to use deadly force to enforce the restrictions if a drone poses an imminent security threat.
Operators who violate the TFRs can be intercepted, detained, and interviewed by law enforcement and security personnel. The FAA may also impose civil penalties, up to $11,000 per violation, and take administrative action including suspending or revoking the pilot's certificate and pursuing criminal charges.
From avweb.com, FAA says that those who have their medicals denied under a new deferral processing policy will not necessarily be disqualified from obtaining medical certification through BasicMed.
The story says effective January 1st, though an email I received this morning says the FAA is delaying this implementation until March 25th. At that time, anyone whose medical deferral is not accompanied by all the necessary paperwork and reports will have their medical denied. A medical denial makes a pilot ineligible for BasicMed and SportPilot.com.
But under the new policy, affected pilots will be able to apply for reconsideration of the denial, and if that's approved, they'll again be eligible for basic men and sport pilot. Here's the FAA statement.
The FAA is modifying the process for people applying for an Airman Medical Certificate. Pilots with incomplete examinations and paperwork will now receive an initial denial with specific guidance for reconsideration. This provides the applicant with an immediate answer, reduces wait times by eliminating the backlog of deferred medical certificates, and gives clear reconsideration criteria to meet upon reapplying.
About 95% of pilots leave the AME's office with an issued airman medical certificate. The FAA is modifying the process for the 5% who are deferred to the FAA for decision. And then they say in the article, per your specific question, BasicMed requires that the individual has a valid FAA medical certificate for at least one day after July 14, 2006, that was not subsequently denied, suspended, revoked, or withdrawn.
If the FAA reconsiders and issues a medical certificate after any denial, then the individual is now eligible for basic med.
From GeneralAviationNews.com, twin-engine aircraft crashes after running out of fuel. And this comes from a final NTSB report. The pilot of a twin-engine Piper PA-44 Seminole reported that while on an IFR cross-country flight at night, he became concerned about the amount of fuel aboard and considered stopping for fuel. About the time he became aware of the fuel state, the aircraft encountered IMC and his attention was diverted from finding an alternate airport to maintaining his flight path.
When ATC cleared the pilot to go direct to the IAF at his destination airport, the airplane experienced an uncommanded right yaw. The pilot recognized that the right engine experienced a total loss of power and he began to secure that engine. He declared an emergency and requested radar vectors to the nearest airport. Then the left engine began to sputter and experienced a total loss of power. The pilot told investigators he was sure that it was fuel exhaustion.
Unable to glide to an airport, he aimed for the darkest landscape to avoid any ground injuries, and the airplane hit terrain near Hawkinsville, Georgia, resulting in substantial damage to both the wings and the fuselage. The pilot sustained minor injuries in the crash. Post-accident examination of the airplane by an FAA inspector noted no smell of fuel or indications of fuel present at the accident site.
Probable cause? The pilot's inadequate in-flight decision-making that resulted in a total loss of engine power due to fuel exhaustion. And also from GeneralAviationNews.com, and this also comes from a final NTSB report, student pilot loses control after engine start. The student pilot reported that upon engine start for a local solo flight, the Cessna 172 almost immediately pivoted to the left.
The airplane hit two support beams of the shade hangar it was parked under at the airport in Knoxville, Tennessee, substantially damaging the left wing. The pilot reported that the parking brake was set when the engine was started and that his feet were on the brakes. A witness reported that the airplane started up with what sounded like an excessively high RPM.
Post-accident investigation of the throttle, tow brake, and parking brake system by an FAA inspector found no anomalies that would have precluded normal operation. Probable cause? The pilot's loss of directional control during engine start. From avweb.com, Border Patrol helicopter down in California and pilot killed.
Earlier this week, a U.S. Customs and Border Protection, or CBP, helicopter crashed on the U.S. side of the Mexican border near Tijuana, Mexico, while on a border security mission. According to a CBP statement, the pilot and sole occupant of the 2009 Eurocopter AS350B-Plus was killed. The accident occurred around 10.30 a.m. According to data from FlightAware, the helicopter took off around 9 a.m. from San Diego Brownfield, California,
and was maneuvering along the border and over the Soul Valley Ranch, an 824-acre cannabis growing facility. And in 2007, there was another fatal crash of a CBP AS350B3 helicopter in Texas, and that wreckage, which I have handled, is part of USC's helicopter accident investigation course.
From avweb.com, pilot convicted of criminal charges in fatal Australian crash. An Australian pilot has been convicted of criminal charges in a fatal crash after his forced landing attempt went wrong. According to the BBC, Leslie Woodall was flying a Cessna 172 with three passengers over the Great Barrier Reef in 2017 when the engine quit. He told court he tried to turn the plane around to a landing spot on a beach behind them rather than ditch because the water was deep and infested with bull sharks.
The plane stalled and cartwheeled, killing a 29-year-old British woman and injuring a 21-year-old Irish woman and a 13-year-old boy. Woodall was also seriously hurt. Prosecution witnesses testified Woodall should have kept descending with the wing's level instead of attempting the turn. Quote,
The court was shown a video shot by the 13-year-old who was in the right seat, and it showed the plane dipping the left wing before rapidly descending and striking the sand wing first with a sawhorn sounding in the background. Woodall was convicted of dangerously operating a vehicle causing death and grievous bodily harm and given a two-year suspended sentence. Now, criminal charges related to aircraft accidents are extremely rare in the U.S., but are more common in other countries.
And finally, from PaddleYourOwnCanoe.com, a Boeing 787 flying from Amsterdam to Mexico City last week was forced to divert to Bermuda after 100 live pigs being transported in the cargo hold started to create such a stench that it affected the oxygen environment in the cockpit, to which I say, yuck, that would not have been pleasant.
The pilots of KLM Royal Dutch Airlines Flight 685 were forced to contact ATC about six hours into the transatlantic flight with an unusual request to make an unscheduled stop in Bermuda due to what the captain described as obnoxious cargo.
After entering a holding pattern off the coast of Bermuda, the ATC contacted the pilots to gather more information about their decision to divert. After being asked whether emergency service would be required to meet the aircraft on arrival, the captain explained that the diversion wasn't an emergency, but there was, quote, a lot of obnoxious cargo coming from pigs probably, which may have something to do with the oxygen environment in the cockpit, so that's why I'm diverting.
The air traffic controller then checked that he had heard the pilots correctly, with the captain replying, yeah, and those are probably the start of the inconvenience, and they'll probably have to be offloaded. After landing in Bermuda, the pigs were removed from the aircraft and have been taken to a secure location where they are under the care of a veterinarian from the Bermuda government.
By the time the plane was on the ground and the pigs were moved, the crew could no longer legally work the rest of the flight to Mexico City, so 259 passengers and crew had to be accommodated in local hotels. The plane eventually departed Bermuda the following night at about 11 p.m. So I guess it's official. When pigs fly, it may get stinky.
Well, that's the news for this week. Coming up next, a few of my updates. And then we'll talk with Dr. Catherine Cognaro about eight flight training experiences that you can make to become a better pilot. All right here on the Aviation News Talk podcast.
And now let's get to the good news. First, congratulations to Vas Rajan. He writes, Max, I passed my CFII checkride in my SR22, and I've made a Venmo donation to the show to help you keep up the good work. Vas, congratulations to you. You're in quite a role. You've passed a lot of checkrides recently.
And congratulations to Joe Lobato from Bend, Oregon, who passed his private. He writes, I really appreciate your content as I find it to help everyone in the aviation community. I just passed my PPL a few weeks ago and decided to gift myself a
with a Delta Zulu headset using your link. Hopefully it's a meaningful contribution to your podcast. Yes, Lightspeed does make a generous donation to Aviation News Talk every time a listener buys one of their headsets. But they only do that if, to get to the Lightspeed website, you first go to the special link I've set up for you, which is aviationnewstalk.com slash lightspeed. So go to that link first, and from there, we'll take you to the Lightspeed website where you can buy a headset.
So just remember to first go to aviationnewstalk.com slash lightspeed. And Joe finishes his email with, thank you again for taking time to provide this podcast for all. Well, you're very welcome. And congratulations to everyone who's finished a new rating, something we'll be talking about later in the show with Dr. Catherine Cavagnaro.
And now let me tell you about our video of the week. This actually comes from a news story from usatoday.com, and it's the dash cam video of November 818 Bravo Romeo, a Twin Piper Chieftain, which did a crash landing onto a road in Victoria, Texas. Preliminary information indicates the aircraft ran out of fuel.
Before the emergency landing, the aircraft was engaged in a five-hour aerial survey flight, flying a grid pattern over the San Antonio area. The preliminary report noted that the aircraft struck two vehicles before splitting in half at a busy intersection. Victoria Police provided an update confirming that three of the four people injured on the ground were treated and released from the hospital, while a fourth individual remains in stable condition. The pilot, who was the aircraft's sole occupant, was also treated and discharged.
Reports indicate that the pilot attempted to return to Victoria, which is KVCT, where the aircraft had originally taken off, but was forced to make the emergency landing before reaching the runway.
FlightAware.com shows the aircraft is registered to Mark Inc. in Mississippi, and their website notes the company is North America's largest provider of specialized contract aircraft and flight crews for airborne GIS surveys and surveillance projects. And the video shows that aircraft doing slight S-turns as it attempts to land on a busy highway.
Now, the links for our videos of the week are on the same page with links that you can use to become a supporter and start supporting the show. So when you go to view the videos, look at the bottom of the page for video links. And at the top of the page, you'll see four options listed for supporting the show. If you sign up monthly to support the show via Patreon, you'll see various tiers starting at $8 a month. And you can also make a monthly donation via PayPal, or you can make one-time donations via PayPal, Venmo, or Zelle. And of course, when you do, I'll read your name on the show.
To see all of our videos of the week or to support the show, go online to aviationnewstalk.com slash video.
Now, I have a correction to make to last week's show, episode 359 with Dr. Quay Snyder. At one point, he misspoke and substituted the word melatonin for the word Benadryl. He correctly said Benadryl in the first sentence, but misspoke in the second sentence. I've gone back and edited the episode so that later downloads hear a corrected version, but there's no way for me to update an episode if it's already downloaded to your phone.
Here's what the corrected version sounds like that's included in this new re-edited version of the episode. In the studies, the similar studies that I talked about previously with the alcohol and the sleep deprivation, use of Benadryl in a single dose, 25 milligrams, which is the lower adult dose, has a cognitive impairing effect for up to 16 hours. It's 16 hours after a dose, similar to a blood alcohol concentration of 0.04 to 0.05.
So, as a result, the FAA restricts any flying activities for 60, six zero hours or two and a half days after a single dose of Benadryl because of the persistent cognitive disturbances due to the long half-life of that medication.
And earlier this week, while driving to the Palo Alto airport, I spotted an airship over Moffett Field. And so that is undoubtedly Pathfinder 1. And then about a month ago, LTA Research posted on LinkedIn, quote, this morning, Pathfinder 1 reached another milestone, untethered outdoor flight.
Our operations crew and flight test team accompanied the airship out onto the runway, and after all safety checks were complete, the crew looked on as Pathfinder 1 left the ground. The successful test marks another important step in our journey, and we are excited to build on this achievement through our rigorous testing program. Now, Sergey Brin, who co-founded Google, is a backer of LTA Research.
In October 2023, Pathfinder 1, which is 124 meters long, became the largest airship since the Hindenburg to receive clearance for flight testing permitted over the boundaries of Moffett Field and neighboring Palo Alto Airport, which is my home airport, at a height up to 1,500 feet. So it's going to be fun watching this airship fly around the area.
And I want to mention that my second article on Flying Magazine appeared in the December 2024 issue, and it was on somatographic illusion. Now, you have to be a subscriber at flyingmag.com to read it, though if they ever post it online, I'll mention that and post a link here in our show notes. In the article, I mentioned three different accident types that involve somatographic illusion, including...
A Cessna 310 that took off IFR from Palo Alto one morning in nearly zero visibility and fog. It climbed only 50 feet, flew level about a mile, and had a power transmission aligned at that altitude. Four Tesla engineers were killed.
And another accident that we talked about in episode 156 occurred when the first officer of Atlas Air Flight 3591, a Boeing 767 cargo plane, inadvertently struck the go-around switch while the aircraft was descending to 3,000 feet in IMC. As the aircraft accelerated, the co-pilot pushed forward on the control column and the aircraft came out of the clouds at about a 45-degree angle before crashing.
Another accident was a Piper Cherokee, which took off from Venice, Florida in dark night conditions with good visibility and clouds at 5,000 feet. The aircraft climbed to about 75 feet and accelerated to 94 knots before it descended.
The last radar hit was about 1,800 feet beyond the departure end of runway 23 and showed the plane at 0 feet and 109 knots. It crashed into the Gulf of Mexico. An engine examination revealed no pre-impact mechanical anomalies that would have prevented normal operation.
And this occurred after I wrote the article, and that was the October crash of a beach baron that killed all five pilots on board after it took off from Catalina Island at night. And that crash bears the signatures of somatographic illusion that aircraft took off at night from the airport and after briefly climbing started to slow descent toward terrain and the ocean.
And these kinds of accidents can also occur on mismanaged missed approaches, and they can even happen to airliners. Southwest Flight 2786 that occurred earlier this year in Hawaii is an example. While we don't have the full details of that flight, what we do know is that it has all the hallmarks of the pilots responding incorrectly due to somatographic illusion. Rather than climbing on the missed approach, the crew acted in ways that led the aircraft to descend during the missed approach,
coming to within 400 feet of the ocean at a descent rate that reached 4,400 feet per minute. Now that was a close call that could have easily led to a fatal crash.
In all of these situations, as an aircraft accelerates, somatographic illusion leads pilots to perceive their heads as tilting back, and pilots interpret that as a climb. Since they perceive that they are climbing, they don't feel a need to pull back on the yoke as much as they should. Instead, they fly straight and level, or even push forward on the yoke, creating a descent.
Now, this is never a problem in day VMC, as although pilots experience the same sensations, their view of houses and trees below gives a correct sense of their height above ground, and they pull back on the yoke. But in IMC or at night, when taking off over dark and poorly lit areas, pilots don't get outside visual feedback and won't be aware that they are flying level or even descending. Now, the solution, of course, is to trust your instruments and
Set your pitch to an appropriate attitude, which would rarely be over 10 degrees pitch up in most GA aircraft. And check that your airspeed is near VY and that you've got a positive rate of climb. And that's just a small portion of the article, so you can check out the full article in your copy of Flying Magazine. And if you're not a subscriber, just go to flyingmag.com to sign up.
And here's an email from listener Dan Reed. He writes, Max, thank you for episode 359. I got so much out of the show. The reminder to start over on any pre-flight checklist that gets interrupted is a great one. And I greatly enjoyed and got a lot out of the interview with Dr. Snyder. I really appreciate all that you do and the value that you bring to the aviation community. Well, thanks for that, Dan.
And here's an email from Forrest in Idaho with two questions. He writes, as always, your shows are golden. So much to learn in each one. Thank you. I have two questions for you. One, when considering high density altitude, I've heard the adage hot, high and humid, but haven't found a reliable way to determine how humidity affects density altitude. Even more fundamentally than trying to factor humidity into density altitude, why does humidity produce airplane performance in the first place?
Well, Forrest, thanks for your email. The reason high humidity is bad is that water vapor displaces air molecules. Humid air contains a higher concentration of water vapor, which is less dense than the nitrogen and oxygen molecules that it displaces. So as humidity increases, the air becomes less dense, which means a higher density altitude.
So essentially for any given volume of air, if it has more water vapor in it, that water vapor pushes the air molecules further apart. So that saturated air moving around your wings will have fewer air molecules in it and hence produce less lift. As for the effect of humidity on aircraft performance, I've only ever seen one article on that topic. It was written by CFI Alan Davis at safepilots.org, which is a professional society for flight instructors.
He posted a three-page article, and I'll include a link in the show notes. In the summary, he writes, humidity can further decrease performance from 11% at the higher altitudes to as much as 32% at lower altitudes, above and beyond the effects of temperature and altitude alone. Now, my guess is that historically, the effects of humidity have not been included in POHs because the size of the performance charts would get much larger and more complicated. Though with computers, it should be easier to calculate that.
And Alan includes a link to an online calculator, which I'll include a link to in the show notes, which does include the effect of humidity when calculating density altitude. And I plugged in a few numbers just to see what the effects might be. It seemed to make less difference at lower temperatures. So here's some examples. For sea level on a standard temperature and pressure day with dew point of zero, which would be 36% humidity, the density altitude is 21 feet.
With a dew point of 15 degrees for 100% humidity, density altitude is 219 feet. So not a huge change there. Though at sea level on a 40 degrees sea day with standard pressure, with a dew point of 0, which would be 8% humidity, the density altitude, and this is at sea level, would be 2,894 feet.
with a dew point of 40 degrees for 100% humidity. Density altitude would be 3,750 feet, so a difference of about 850 feet. So a much bigger difference for the higher temperatures. Now let's go to Lake Tahoe for similar conditions with a 6,000 foot field elevation. On a 0 degree C day with a dew point of minus 20 C, that gives you a relative humidity of 21% and a density altitude of 5,648 feet.
At 100% humidity, it increases to 5,723 feet for a gain of less than 100 feet. But on a 30 degrees C day, with a dew point of 0 degrees C, which is 14% humidity, density altitude is a whopping 9,105 feet. And at 100% humidity, the density altitude is 9,652 feet, or about 550 feet higher.
So you can see that the changes in humidity has the biggest effect on density altitude when it's hot outside, when unfortunately your performance is already poor.
He then continues on with his second question. He says, following your recent episode about turns in the traffic pattern, I'm curious what you'd say about the following. A recent CFI taught me a method of flying the traffic pattern where airspeed is controlled predominantly by moving the yoke forward and aft. By the way, that's the good part. And that's how I control airspeed when I'm descending in the pattern. If I'm level in the pattern, then airspeed is controlled by the throttle.
Now, continuing on, and this is the really bad part, he says, "...and to make turns occur with rudder inputs alone, no yoke rotation. It works pretty well until you kill yourself, I must say, but I've been thinking about the uncoordinated turn it induces, in particular causing skidding turns. I can't say offhand what degree bank it induces, but I'm inclined to say it's not the 30 degrees both you and Catherine recommend."
I also know what you both feel about skids in the pattern, so I'm curious, have you heard of such a method of flying the pattern? Either way, what do you think of this technique? Many thanks, Forrest.
Well, Forrest, doing what you describe in the traffic pattern is extremely dangerous and you should absolutely not do that. I sent a quick note to Catherine about this and she agrees. Making uncoordinated turns in the pattern sets you up for a stall spin accident that will kill you so quickly you don't even know it happened. So don't do what the CFI told you. Always make coordinated turns in the traffic pattern using both aileron and rudder.
Now, I have heard of this method being used while flying the final segment of an instrument approach to make tiny heading changes of less than 5 degrees. The difference there is that you are fast, usually 90 knots or more on an instrument approach, so there is little danger of stalling. But it's not necessary to fly an instrument approach. So no, please do not make turns in the traffic pattern the way your CFI described. You're setting yourself up for a stall spin accident.
And let me add that sometimes CFIs make stuff up or they pass along bad information that they've heard from other CFIs. So always carefully vet anything you hear that's different from normal standard operating procedures. And I just want to give a quick update on the backpack closeout deal I mentioned a couple of months ago. You and other listeners have bought over 60 of these backpacks and there's still some left.
And I've heard from one of you that he really likes the backpack he bought. Now, these will make great Christmas gifts, so listen up. As I've mentioned in the past, Brian Schultz is closing out his inventory, and you can get one of his backpacks for half price, which is $99.50 plus shipping, if you use the promo code MAX. For a full description of the backpacks, listen to episode 345. And to get the backpack, I've created an easy-to-remember URL for you, which is aviationnewstalk.com slash backpack.com.
then use the promo code MAX. And aviation is a small community, so see if you know any of these people who've signed up in the past week to support the show. We didn't have any new supporters via Patreon, but thanks to Michael Smith, who made a donation via PayPal, and to Dan Reed, who made a donation via Venmo. Thanks so very much for your support. And if you've thought about supporting the show but haven't quite gotten around to it,
this would be a really great time to do it because each month we lose a number of supporters on Patreon when their credit cards expire. And so we're constantly looking for new supporters to make up for the supporters whose credit cards have expired. So to support the show, just head on out to aviationnewstalk.com slash support. Coming up next, our conversation with Dr. Catherine Cavagnaro about eight flight training experiences that you can give yourself to make you a better pilot. All right here on the Aviation News Talk podcast.
Now let me tell you a little about Katherine Cavagnaro. She's an expert on spins, aerobatics, and upset recovery, and owns a flight school called Ace Aerobatic School, located at the Suwannee-Franklin County Airport on the campus of the University of the South.
In addition to holding ATP and CFI certificates, she's a professor of mathematics at the University of the South and has chaired the Department of Mathematics and Computer Science. Katherine is the 2020 National CFI of the Year, and she also serves as a designated pilot examiner. And now here's our conversation with Katherine Cavagnaro. Katherine, welcome to the show. Great to have you back again so soon. Great to be back. Thanks, Max.
Well, you wrote an article for the December AOPA Pilot Magazine in which you talked about getting additional ratings and certificates and other aviation experiences. But first, you talked about your family gift-giving tradition. Tell us about that. Yeah, it's a little non-standard. At my house over the holidays, we decorate, which is a lot of fun, and we put up a tree, but there is absolutely nothing underneath it. And at the point of
pride, you know, and my kids were really young. I just realized that you give them a thing and they play with it for, I don't know, whatever, a couple of weeks. And then I was taking it to donate and
But if I give them experiences, then that's something that they will have much longer. And it's something that, okay, this is a little selfish. I get to share with them. So over the years, what I've just told them is that I'd like them to pick an adventure
and I will make it happen. So my kids went through a period where they were really interested in World War II, say, and my older son decided he needed to touch a midget sub. Max, there's only one midget sub in the continental United States, and it's in
Fredericksburg, Texas. So we got in our airplane and we flew to Fredericksburg, Texas so that they could see a midget sub. They also wanted to see a U-boat. And so we went to Chicago so they could see a U-boat. We did a tour of the White House. We've been to the Bahamas. A lot of times they pick a football game. So, and I try to fly ourselves there. So we're big San Francisco 49ers fans since I grew up near you in the Bay Area.
So my kids are as well. So we've flown all over the United States going to football games, just you name it. Last year, we went to Ireland and we got tips on how to drink a stout the proper way at the Guinness factory. So, you know, it's their educational experiences. They are just fun adventures and.
but I don't give my kids physical gifts. And in fact, they don't give me physical gifts either. They typically get tickets to a concert or something like that. So the beauty is we share all of those experiences together and
And the nice side effect is, Max, there's no cleaning up on Christmas morning. There's no throwing away any, you know, wrapping paper or anything like that. So it's a neat tradition, and I'm actually really glad I started it. Darn, I wish I'd grown up in your family. That sounds like fun.
I'm adopting, Max. There you go. Sounds good. So I'm just thinking that there might be a certain amount of self-interest that comes into play here. Some of those experiences sounded like they involve you getting to go fly somewhere. Yes. So, yeah.
Yeah, there's possibly some selfish motives in here. So yeah, we've flown all over the place to go to football games and we went to see Mount Rushmore. So yeah, we've flown all over the country and I try to make sure if possible, we do it.
in my airplane. And if time is an issue at all, we always have backup airline tickets just to make sure we mitigate any sort of get-their-itis sort of thing. But I tell you, more often than not, we've been able to fly ourselves. So that's been a real treat. Yeah, indeed. And so one of the things that I just mentioned this week or so ago, I was talking about light-speed headsets and they've got a sale going on over the holidays. And I said, sometimes I give myself a Christmas gift
What can pilots do in terms of working on additional flight training and ratings and things like that that they might want to give themselves as gifts over the holidays or at any time? Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I'm really good at giving myself these sorts of gifts.
You know, at the end of every practical exam, for example, I always have the candidate critique him or herself, right? Just the way I critique myself after every one of my flights. You know, I'm happy with this. I'm happy with this. You know what? I think I need a little work on, you know, fill in the blank. So sometimes it's just treating myself to a proficiency flight where I just go out and hone some skills that I think need honing.
But it's a lot of fun is to actually go sign up for training and
I'm actually a training junkie. I could live my life being like a flight student. I could just go around the country and sign up for flight training at various airports. So to me, it's a lot of fun to not only shore up any inadequacies in my own flying, but put an extra tool in my toolbox. Like, for example, a number of years ago, I got my glider rating.
And I was amazed at all of the really, really good information that you learn when you get your glider rating and things that we don't even talk about in the powered community. You know, when every one of your landings is an engine out,
How could that not be the best training ever? But even the book side of it was eye-opening to me. It was the first time I realized that best glide airspeed is not a fixed number. VX airspeed, it's not a fixed number. And in the power community, we act like it is, but...
They aren't. So just intellectually, I thought getting my glider rating was really interesting. And of course, the flying itself was amazing. So it was a ton of fun. It counted as a flight review. And I got a lot of new tools in my toolbox.
So the last time I surveyed listeners of the podcast here, I was surprised to find out that over half of them were working on some new rating. In fact, the instrument rating and the commercial rating made up the bulk of those responses.
What are some of the benefits of going out and getting an instrument rating? Oh, my gosh. So when I sign a temporary certificate for a private pilot candidate, I'm looking to make sure that this is somebody who is safe, never in doubt that this person will be a safe person to take his or her family and friends flying.
But that's not to say that there aren't some subtleties that they can work on. So what I find the difference between, say,
A private pilot candidate versus someone who gets an instrument rating or completes an instrument rating is just the precision with which they fly is so much better. And they're smoother. And I think they're used to multitasking better because there's a lot that you need to do when you are on an instrument flight and to demonstrate those skills.
instrument capabilities. So I just think it's just like a master's degree, so to speak, in flying. So I think it smooths out people's techniques. Do you notice the same thing that they fly with just a little more precision? You know, it's interesting. I got my helicopter certificate a year and a half ago, and I then went and got my instrument reading, which is
A little ironic because there are no Robinson helicopters certificated for flight and instrument conditions, but you can get your instrument rating in one. And yes, I definitely, in that 15 hours, which is all that's required for an add-on, learned things that helped make me become a better pilot. And I think you're right. I think the whole process of flying instruments is,
kind of makes you spend more time thinking about your arrival and approach to an airport. And therefore you're just a little bit better prepared. You've jumped on getting the Avis a little bit sooner. You've been a little bit more thoughtful about that, how you're going to approach the airport. But,
But what about the commercial rating? Why should a pilot consider doing that even if they have no intention at the moment of ever getting any kind of job in aviation? That was exactly me, by the way. I had no... When I got into aviation, I did not have any ideas that I would do anything professional in aviation. But I had an interesting experience during my commercial training that I'll share with you. And this is back in the days where you couldn't do technically advanced. You had to do...
complex as part of your commercial. So the local airport, a couple, you know, airports away had a Piper Arrow. And so I signed up for lessons in the Arrow as part of that.
And, you know, I had done my homework. I'm a book nerd. You know, if I'm going to fly another aircraft, what I want to do, the first thing I want to do is get a hold of that POH and I want to go home and I want to curl up with the POH and just learn whatever I can. I don't want to just go fly an airplane. I want to dig into the details of the aircraft and the systems and such.
And I did that. I made my own checklist and on the downwind, I was going to put the propeller forward, you know, all of the places I'm going to do what I'm going to do in the landing. So I am on the downwind, I throttle back, I put the prop forward and you know what happens when you put the prop forward and you get kind of this deceleration, right? And my, my
instructor just snapped at me and he said, your passengers don't want to feel that. And it really hit me, you know, I thought I was doing everything correctly. He said, no, no, you wait until you have throttled back to the range where the prop is not governed, right? And
And then when you put the prop forward, you're not going to feel anything. And it just struck me that that is a level that I hadn't really thought about yet, where you are
A lot of the commercial training is geared toward you're flying maybe faster, more capable aircraft. You are doing more complex things in that airplane, but you're also, you care about the passenger experience. There's a lot of places where you could choose to put the propeller level forward. And I've never lost that. To this day, I always make sure that whatever airplane I'm flying that has a controllable pitch prop
I know the manifold pressure below which I can put that prop forward and I'm not going to hear any of that. So it's just being really attentive to passenger experience and including the things that they hear.
And the things that they feel. So it's just smoothing out your flying. So I think back to Frank and he was absolutely right to chastise me. And I think I really am grateful to him for helping me be a smoother pilot.
That is a great little tip, and I'm not sure that I've really thought about it a lot. The one thing I'll do to mitigate the effect you're talking about is just to turn that prop control slowly. Because if people just jam it in, well, then, yes, you're going to get a huge problem.
amount of noise and the deceleration, maybe a little vibration and so on. So yes, I would agree. Commercial certificate in many ways is not just about flying all the different maneuvers, but it's about understanding the passenger experience and how to make that better. And I took away something from my commercial checkride that,
Almost as soon as it started, we started taxiing out toward the runway. And I think the first thing the examiner said was, you're riding the brakes. And I thought, oh, okay. I don't think anybody's ever really said that to me before. And so I became a little bit more conscious about not riding the brakes. And yet I find as a flight instructor, I'm often telling pilots, hey, you're riding the brakes. And people don't realize that.
that if they rest their feet on the pedals kind of at the same angle that they might rest them if they were in a car with your feet on the accelerator, that often your toes will be adding just enough pressure that you're riding the brakes a little bit and that you really need to be very conscious about foot position and maybe having those heels back further and toes down lower so that you're not inadvertently riding the brakes.
Yeah, it's interesting. And you can feel that as a passenger too. So I think that commercial mindset is obviously it's getting the most out of your airplane. If you are riding the brakes while you're taking off, you are seriously compromising your takeoff performance. But it's also, you know, just in an airplane, I can feel when somebody is riding the brakes. And I know that that doesn't make sense to do that.
I'll throw in one other thing. As an aerobatic instructor, something I try to share with people is that being authoritative and graceful in an airplane are not mutually exclusive, right? So you can be authoritative in an airplane, but you can also be smooth. So I think that's one of the points of, say, something like a Shondell maneuver is being authoritative, but graceful.
yet you are caring for the experience that the passenger has while you are being authoritative. Well, along those lines, let's just bring up slips because I recently was flying with a pilot and when he went to slip, oh my gosh, the plane just yanked violently. It's so easy to enter a slip and to get a full slip if you just push that pedal forward over, say, at least 50 milliseconds instead of one millisecond.
No, I'm kidding. Do it over one, two, three seconds, but to just jam it suddenly to the floor, holy cow, that's just not the way to enter a slip. Yeah, that's a great point that you bring up. And also, when you are introducing, say, aileron,
Slowly, as you say, you can introduce rudder slowly at the same time. Have you ever been flying with somebody who puts in the aileron and then they put in the rudder and both of them are sudden? And, you know, passengers do not want to see that and they don't want to feel that. So you can add them both together.
over a period of time to get that full slip in and it's not uncomfortable. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit more about experiences that people can sign up for. You brought up aerobatics and I know that you're an expert in spin training. Talk about spin training as an experience that someone might want to sign themselves up for sometime.
Oh, yeah. To me, you know, that was the first flight I took after I got my private certificate because my instructor said, you know, it's going to make you a better pilot if you really dive into that. And my primary instructor was not one of the instructors who was afraid of stalls and such.
And so I was grateful for that. But wow, spins really, really opened my eyes. First time I saw a spin, it was actually with Bill Kirscher. And I looked at him and I said, you have got to be kidding me. I just couldn't believe that.
Anybody did that on purpose. But what I try to do is we do spin entries because I want to make sure that people can stop it before it starts. But in my opinion, I'm one of the people who feels like we really should do full spin training as well because I find that people are so afraid of that.
edge because they've never been past it, that they have what I think of as an irrational fear of stalls. And I'm not minimizing them. But what I like to show people is let's go way over the edge and I'm going to show you what the edge looks like and what beyond it looks like. And then what I want to do is concentrate on showing you how to stay away from it so that you don't get into trouble. But I think when people...
sometimes go into territory of which they're afraid and such, your mind sort of closes up and you're not able to take care of that potentially emergent situation. And I feel like if you have a good dose of stall and spin training, then you're more likely to be able to think through situations more effectively. I know it definitely worked that way for me. Yeah.
So let's continue to talk about other experiences. You mentioned several of these in the article. What about mountain flying courses? Oh my gosh. Yeah. People have the just misconceptions about mountain flying in particular. I'm sure you've heard of the Canyon turn where a pilot might get into flying some, you know, high terrain and you need to get out of it. And the, the best course,
your best option might be to hang a U-turn, for example. What I find people tell me on practical exams is that, oh yeah, I would do a Shondell in that situation. No, a Shondell is not what you want to do in that situation. So for example, if you are taking a mountain flying course, then you will be accustomed to the
potential dangers and pitfalls of flying in high terrain. I mean, this is some serious stuff and you need to get an expert to share this with you. And if you were to get into a situation which, say, would require a canyon turn, then you'll learn how to do that
properly and you will not be doing a Shondell. So talk a little bit about tailwheel training and the benefits of that. Yeah. So even in nosewheel aircraft, I find that people have trouble maintaining balance
directional control. And of course, in an aircraft with a nose wheel, they tend to be self-correcting. So for takeoff and landing, if you land and if your longitudinal axis isn't completely aligned with the runway center line, it tends to self-correct. It's not nice to the
A tailwheel aircraft is the opposite. So if you're not perfectly aligned with the center line of that runway and you touch down like that, there's going to be a tendency to actually have that exacerbate into a ground loop.
So tailwheel training really shows you what the rudder pedals are for. And also, here's another nice benefit of tailwheel training. Of course, if you're in a tailwheel and you're on the ground, the nose tends to be high. So you don't really have a great view down the runway. So what you learn to do is use your peripheral vision effectively. And you can maintain directional control in a tailwheel aircraft using the distance control
from the runway edge, if you keep that the same during your takeoff or your landing, then you are staying along the runway center line. Assuming you started there to begin with, you will maintain direction along the center line. So I just think it's wonderful to see people use their
rudder correctly. And I know that it opened up a big world for me. And plus, it was a ton of fun. I got my tailwheel endorsement in a Piper Cub. And then I went on to fly a friend's Cessna 185, which is quite a step up, by the way, from the Cub. But it's just such fun flying. And you'll learn a lot, too.
You know, a lot of these things don't take a lot of time to do either. I think people think about how their private took them, oh, months and hours and, you know, 40 hours for the instrument and so on. How many hours would you expect someone to have to spend on a tailwheel transition? I think it could probably vary, but I'm going
I'm going to say it's probably in the 8, 10, 12 range. Is that about what you'd think, Max? Yeah, 10 was the number that kind of popped into my mind. Not that I've done much tailwheel transition. I just chose to focus on other kinds of things, but certainly have taught some of it in the past. One thing you talked about, I think, real briefly, which was seaplane training. And that's also a very quick experience as well. Talk about how long it took to get a seaplane rating and what that was like.
Oh, it was a lot of fun. If memory serves, it was probably four or five days or so max. And yeah, it was just a lot of fun. And it's kind of neat to just assuming you're in a state that allows something like this. But if you pick an appropriate lake, just go decide to land on that lake. So I just have a lot of fun doing that. I know you have a seaplane rating. In fact, didn't you even have a seaplane at one point?
Yes, I owned a Lake Buccaneer for a number of years and have my ATP in seaplanes. If I want to get hired...
I could do that at some point in time. So I agree. It's totally fun. And you're right about it being regionally concentrated. There are pockets of seaplane activity in the U.S. Florida is one of them. You've got another region kind of in the Michigan, Minnesota area, another region in the Northwest up in the Seattle area. So yeah, it's something that you often have to travel for it to go ahead and find that training. And I think in some cases you can do it as little as three days. So it's
It's pretty quick. I would say that often you're doing the entire thing in under 10 hours. So again, it's not going to take a whole lot of time, take a whole lot of money, but what a great experience to give yourself. Now, another thing you talked about in the article was take a real IFR course. Let's talk about that for a while.
Right. Yeah. And I imagine this is some of the training that you offer when you help people get their plane from Knoxville all the way back to California or wherever you fly. It's funny, the instrument rating is typically the way that the training is concentrated is it's to me, it's hyper focused on approaches and you're
You're not really spending enough time talking about departures, departure procedures, en route, choosing the altitude, choosing the route, how you're going to navigate. And it's kind of disappointing. Honestly, in some of the ground conversations, I see real deficiencies there. So what ends up happening is you get people who are instrument rated, but they don't feel confident actually using their airplane to travel.
And that's some of the training that I know that you give. I know other friends who give that kind of training where you're actually taking a few days with a candidate or a student and you're just helping them see how they can use their airplane to actually travel. So when I say a real IFR course, I mean,
Take a few days, go fly around the country, go golf at some interesting place in the Northeast and then go get some, you know, seafood down in the Southeast. See how an airplane can be used for travel and you're guaranteed to consider the full phase of the flight, not just hyper-focused on the approach end. And again, you can have a lot of fun doing that.
Well, we should go ahead and mention some of our friends. So, for example, you mentioned the article Doug Stewart, who I just, I can't say enough good things about Doug. He is a mensch. He is just one of the really nice, great people in aviation. He's on the East Coast up in the New York State area. So, if people want to check out dsflight.com, Doug's an examiner and he also does...
The IFR trips, well, he'll spend several days flying around the Northeast with you, getting exactly that kind of experience. And we met someone on the West Coast that specializes in that as well, and that's Field Mori. He used to be up in Wisconsin, I believe, and last I heard, he was based out of Oregon. And I just checked out his website to see if he's still active, and it's ifrwest.com.
Not only does he do these multiple day adventure trips, but get this. He also has the Alaska adventure, which is a 25 hour trip. So I think I'd like to sign up for that one. Yeah, me too.
No, Max, I know that you have often talked about advising instructors to specialize. Actually, you and I are both examples of that. We've specialized and really have a lot of fun in the kind of training that we do. Here's a call out to some instructors. This is an area that is definitely needed. There are not enough people who do this kind of training, this real IFR training. If you become an expert...
and focus on this, I guarantee you're going to have a line of people who want to avail themselves of this kind of training. Yes, indeed. I always recommend that CFIs specialize. Lots of benefits both to you as a CFI and to your clients as well. And so the last area that you talked about in the article, which is right on point here, is advanced avionics training. Talk about the need for that.
Oh my gosh. This is a personal experience, Max, too. So my Bonanza is a 1968. She was born when panels that had pictures of wood on them were like fancy or something. So when I got her, she just, you know, she had, I think she still had an ADF and some just avionics, let's face it, that were from the last millennium.
And so I did a full panel gut job. So she is a complete all glass panel. It's beautiful, but I picked her up. And again, I love reading books and I certainly read up on it, but I found that I flew her back to Tennessee from Pennsylvania after her panel redo. And I was kind of at a loss. It was great. It was great VFR weather and it was fine, but I realized for...
flying her IFR, I really needed some help. And here's the thing too, it's not a G1000, right? So you can't get a G1000 in a plane like the Bonanza. It's not STC for that. So I chose my navigators, both of them. I chose my comms. I chose my transponder. I chose the PFD. I chose the audio panel, all of those sorts of things.
Guaranteed, nobody out there has a panel that's exactly like mine. So while I could use her instruments,
I know that I was not optimized. My scan was not optimized. So I availed myself of some transition training from someone who could really show me how to use my avionics in the best way. And one of my favorite things is we spent a few hours on the ground just sitting in the airplane,
with the master on deciding where do I want my ground speed displayed? Where do I want my estimated time and route? Where do I want all of those? And we played around with it. So it wasn't just going out for two hours. This took a few days. And I came away from that
in the position of being able to use the information in my panel in an optimal way. And I'm still tinkering with it. So maybe it wasn't completely optimal, but it was much closer to being optimal.
Yeah, I think a lot of pilots underestimate when they get into a new glass cockpit, whether it's a situation like yours where you had something newly installed or whether it's a new aircraft that they're transitioning into or something that they've just purchased.
they underestimate how much learning they need to accomplish on the avionics. And so many of the ratings and certificates that we just talked about have virtually zero focus on the avionics. So, for example, when you go to do your commercial checkride, is there any requirement related to avionics? Well, other than the general catch-all, which is you should be able to know how to use everything in your airplane, no, there is not. And so I think...
If you were to look at pilots' weak areas, I would say, in general, avionics is a weak area for a high percentage of pilots. And that's just because there's no certificate or rating that says you've got to know everything about your aircraft. I've often recommended what you just suggested, which is spend some hours
on the ground. The easy way to do that is if you've got some way to apply power to your airplane so that you can, you know, power it up for a couple hours on just the battery. If you don't, if you talk to a maintenance shop, they probably have something they can lend to you that would let you do that. But that's probably one of the most valuable tools
tools, especially for aircraft for which there are no software simulators or PC trainers that Garmin sells for your particular aircraft. And then I would say there are relatively few people in the country that specialize in avionics training. And so often people are kind of left in the situation of, you know, working with their current CFI to kind of try and figure it out, you know, together. You
Occasionally I get called in from a CFI who may be a specialist. For example, I'm just thinking of an example with a gentleman who was flying a twin that I knew nothing about, but he was flying with CFI who called me in because he didn't know much about the avionics that were in that particular airplane. So we did just that. We had a lesson that was sitting in his hangar running through all the various things powered up in his aircraft. So what are your thoughts on avionics? Do you see this as an area that people are
challenged in when they come in for check rides? Oh, hands down. Yeah. Even if it's a standard installation, yeah, I see that that's probably the biggest problem on instrument practical exams, for example, is they set up an approach and they don't put something in just the right way and then they're confused. Yeah.
and they don't know how to fix it. And maybe they've had an instructor who's done the fixing for them. And let's face it, we're all going to be in that situation, right? Where maybe we get, it's a curve ball. Maybe it's not something we didn't put in correctly, but maybe ATC throws us a curve ball and a lack of facility with your avionics could end up being an emergent situation. Yeah. And I think probably one of the most important skills is just trying to recover and
I think people find themselves, you know, going down a rat hole and it was like, oh, now what do I do? How do I get out of this misdirection that I headed toward? And how do I get back to where I need to be? I did a phase check for someone just in the past week and I
Diamond DA-42 for my club, and he nearly failed the instrument portion. He is really quite good at virtually all the other aspects of flying the airplane, but he struggled mightily getting an instrument approach loaded correctly. And I was surprised. In fact, he later said he was surprised that he got it. So I think there was probably a little element of luck. And when we're flying, do you really want to rely on luck when you fly? Yeah.
No, absolutely not. Yeah. I think you did an episode on a Pilatus out of, I think, the East Coast, maybe North Carolina or so. And the
lack of facility with avionics was an understatement there. And how many people died because of that? So there's no reason to not do it. And honestly, it was a lot of fun. Even sitting in the ground in my hangar was a lot of fun. It felt really satisfying to have some guidance helping me set up my airplane in a way that makes sense to use.
So it was just great training. And for you CFIs out there, again, who might want to think about specializing, this is an area. Be the go-to person on Garmin avionics or...
Just pick some niche area, become an expert on it, and I guarantee you're going to have clients who want to avail themselves of your expertise. Yep, totally agree. And so I'll just go ahead and put in the plug, which is, hey, if you want some training on Garmin avionics, give me a call. Most times people fly into the San Francisco Bay Area and I fly with them. We've got a great set of simulators to cover a lot of different Garmin installations and
On rare occasions, I also will fly out to someone's location to fly with them. So anyway, there's my plug. And for you, we should mention spin training, right? Sure, yeah. I enjoy doing that, yeah. Yep, that's super. Well, we have both chosen Specialize, and we're both having a lot of fun with what we're doing. And I guess what we're telling is people who are listening,
Have some fun. Go out there and learn something new. Just the experience of learning something new is fun. Yeah, I think virtually everything we've discussed, if not everything we've discussed, can count for a flight review. So, you know, if you're due for a flight review, you're
You know, I have people say, well, when I ask about what a flight review is on a practical exam, well, it's an hour on the ground and an hour in an airplane. No, no, no. Do it fully. Go have fun. Find something, you know, pick a weakness of yours and then go have a ball honing your skills or shoring up that weakness that you have.
The only reason I have an ATP max is I was due a flight review and I didn't know what else to do. So I thought, oh, I'll just get my ATP. I don't use my ATP for anything. But I've just had a ball over the years doing it.
I know you have to. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I encourage everybody, go out there and do it. So for me, every time I was looking at doing a flight review, I was looking at, hey, is there a new certificate that I can add? And ultimately, that put me in a position where
When someone finally suggested, hey, you should become a CFIMax, it was like, oh, well, I've already got my commercial, not that I ever planned to use it. So, yes, I'm all ready to go for that. And, yes, I've got multiple ATPs, including the multi-engine seaplane. So when Air Maldives calls and says they need a captain to fly their twin otters in the Maldives –
I'm all set. Well, you're one-upping me, Max. There's some I need to go get. Let's see, an ATP seaplane. Sign me up. Yep. Well, there are two of them. There's the single-engine seaplane and the multi-engine seaplane ATP. So multiple opportunities there. See how much fun I'm going to have. Exactly. See, this conversation has just cost you a whole lot of money.
Well, I can't take it with me, so. Exactly. So you might as well fly. Well, Catherine, where do people go to find out more about you and your work? Well.
Yeah, so I teach mathematics at Suwannee, the University of the South. I'm a designated examiner for the Nashville FISDO. I teach aerobatics at Ace Aerobatics School in Suwannee, Tennessee. And I write the Flying Smart column every month for AOPA Pilot Magazine. So there are a lot of places you can find me, and I'm always going to be having fun. Always fun talking with you. Thanks so much, Katherine. Thanks for having me, Max. Hi.
And my thanks to Dr. Catherine Carignaro for joining us again here today. You can find out more about her and her aerobatic school at aceaerobaticschool.com, and you can find more of her work in the pages of AOPA Pilot Magazine.
And just a reminder that I love hearing from you and I read many of your emails on the show. If you'd like to send me a message, just go out to aviationnewstalk.com, click on contact at the top of the page. That's absolutely the best way to send me a message. And of course, I also want to thank everyone who supports the show in one of the following ways. We love it when you join the club and sign up at aviationnewstalk.com slash support to
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