376 PALS Skyhope Volunteer Flying of Medical Patients and Veterans with Adam Broun + GA News
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Today we're talking with Adam Brown of PALS Skyhope about how GA pilots like you are flying medical patients and military veterans for them. So if you're looking to give back, you may want to do some volunteer flying like this.

Later during my updates, I'll be talking about the preliminary reports for three high-profile accidents and incidents, including the crash in Alaska of a Cessna Caravan, the runway incursion at Chicago O'Hare that forced a Southwest jet to go around, and the crash of a Delta Connection jet in Toronto that left that airliner upside down.

Hello again and welcome to Aviation News Talk where we talk general aviation. My name is Max Trescott. I've been flying for 50 years. I'm the author of several books and the 2008 National Flight Instructor of the Year. And my mission is to help you become the safest possible pilot. Last week in episode 375, we talked about somatographic illusion and the night crash of November 7153 Romeo.

a Piper cruiser in Moab, Utah, that killed a North Dakota senator and his family. So if you didn't hear that episode, you may want to check it out at aviationnewstalk.com slash 375. And if you're new to this show, welcome. Glad you found us. And now if you would take a moment in whatever app that you're listening to and touch either the subscribe key or the follow key so that next week's episode is downloaded for free.

And you can also listen to the show by downloading the Aviation News Talk app that you'll find in the Apple App Store. That app stopped working for a while, but we just got it fixed and it's back up and running again. So check it out in the App Store by searching for Aviation News Talk.

And my thanks to these people who've signed up this week to support the show. They include new monthly donations via Patreon from Chris Johnston and Pejman Javahiri, and one-time donations from Michael Coggins, Karen Larson, Peter Langworthy, and Cooper Sloan. And if you'd like to hear your name next week, sign up now to support the show by going to aviationnewstalk.com slash support.

Coming up on the news for the week of March 17th, 2025, the FAA is about to get a new administrator, the Pilatus PC-12 is getting new avionics, and we have the unlikely tale of a pilot who landed on a street in New York City. All this and more, and the news starts now.

From AINonline.com, the White House selection of longtime Republic Airways President Brian Bedford to become the next FAA administrator is drawing wide praise throughout the industry, which called him, quote, exceptionally well-suited for the role. Bedford has led Republic since July 1999 as president and CEO. During his tenure at Republic, the airline has grown from $85 million in revenue and 36 turboprop aircraft to $1.5 million in sales.

to more than $1.3 billion in revenue and an operating fleet of nearly 200 Embraer E-Jets. According to his biography on the Republic Airways website, Bedford is a certified pilot with multi-engine and instrument ratings. From avweb.com, fired FAA workers reinstated.

The Professional Aviation Safety Specialist Union says 132 of its technicians, inspectors, and maintenance workers will return to work after a judge ordered their reinstatement last week. The workers, all probationary employees, were let go February 14th, but their dismissal, along with thousands of other probationary employees in various other government departments, was found to be illegal. They will be paid for the months' work they missed. From CNBC.com...

The FAA said it will install enhanced safety technology at 74 airports by the end of 2026 to help detect runway incursions. The FAA is installing the Runway Incursion Device, a memory aid for air traffic controllers that indicates when a runway is occupied. The system is operational at four airports and will be installed at another 70 airports over the next 19 months.

The FAA is also installing the Runway Awareness Initiative System, an approach runway verification system at airports. SAI uses EDSB to display surface traffic to controllers at airports without a surface surveillance tool. It's operational at 18 airports, and the FAA plans to install it at 32 others by the end of 2025. From GlobalAir.com, FAA to modernize Part 144 pilot school training.

The FAA announced it's collaborating with flight training organizations and stakeholders to modernize Part 141 regulations. The agency held its first series of public meetings on March 6 and expects to publish a findings report in early 2026, but could implement near-term policy improvements before then. The FAA is initiating public engagement on the modernization of Part 141 with an introductory public meeting and additional meetings.

These meetings will provide a forum for the aviation industry to discuss, prioritize, and make recommendations to the agency regarding Part 141 modernization through both written and oral comments. The FAA said it has found that the best foundation of quality ground and flight training is through certificated pilot schools. Part 141 pilot schools provide training courses for first-time pilots through flight instructors,

But the FAA said some Part 141 regulations reference language from nearly 85 years ago. The last major revision to Part 141 was in 1997, which did not account for some modern technology, such as GPS, electronic flight bags, and flight simulators. New technology will allow the FAA to improve safety by making Part 141 training more affordable and more efficient. There are currently about 500 Part 141 schools in the U.S.,

From GeneralAviationNews.com, Aviation Coalition asks for tariff exemptions. A coalition of 15 aviation advocacy groups are lobbying to get the federal government to exempt aerospace from the administration's new tariffs.

In a letter to U.S. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, U.S. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, and U.S. Trade Representative Jameson Greer, the groups urged the federal government to work with the aerospace and aviation industries to, quote, minimize disruptions in the aviation supply chain.

The aviation supply chain involves tens of thousands of suppliers from all over the globe, which provides parts, platforms, and systems that require safety approval for use and installation, all of which cannot be easily replaced or substituted, the groups wrote in the March 12th letter. Given this reality, it's essential that both government and industry work together to minimize cost and availability disruptions,

in the aviation supply chain, which in many cases cannot be easily or quickly addressed. We believe such dialogue and analysis will benefit the competitiveness of the U.S. aviation manufacturing and maintenance sectors and will be critical as the industry continues to innovate and contribute positively to the U.S. balance of trade.

Coalition encourages the government to work with industry and Congress to support policies and actions focused on strengthening aviation safety agreements, policies, and investments to bolster innovation, as well as measures to address specific aviation supply chain challenges. The letter was signed by 15 aviation associations. And here's a story I've heard rumors about for the last couple of months, and those rumors have proven to be true.

From GlobalAir.com, Pilatus unveils PC-12 Pro, chooses Garmin G3000 Prime flight deck. And this is a big announcement as I believe all prior PC-12s have been delivered with Honeywell Avionics. Garmin announced Monday that Pilatus has chosen its industry-leading G3000 Prime integrated flight deck for the new PC-12 Pro aircraft.

The FlightTech features a modern user interface and advanced connectivity, utilizing the latest technologies to improve safety potential and efficiency while reducing pilot workload during every phase of flight. The G3000 Prime has expansive 14-inch touchscreen primary display units with edge-to-edge sunlight-readable fingerprint-resistant glass.

The G3000 Prime's advanced multi-touch touchscreen interface is capable of recognizing up to 10 touchscreen inputs simultaneously, allowing both pilot and co-pilot to interact with the same display at the same time. The enhanced multi-touch technology enabled on-screen hand stabilization, which will allow pilots to give more precise touchscreen inputs while also resting their fingers on the display.

Along with touch inputs, pilots can use the cursor control device, which looks to be a trackball for physical control of commonly used features. The system features a range of industry-leading safety-enhancing technologies, such as Garmin Autoland, which can take complete control of the flight to land the aircraft in an emergency if the pilot is unable to do so. Other safety-enhancing tools include electronic stability protection, emergency descent mode, and Garmin Autothrottle.

The G3000 Prime, the PC-12 Pro, has earned its initial type certification. Deliveries are expected to begin in Q3 of 2025. From FlyingMag.com, Carmen unveils In-Flight Carbon Monoxide Detector.

The remote-mount GCO-14 unit can interface with select Garmin avionics, enabling the pilot to detect and monitor CO levels. With the CO monitor, pilots will be able to view exposure levels through the user interface data fields or a dedicated page. If potential harmful levels are detected, the GCO-14 provides both oral carbon monoxide and visual alerts flashing CO level when the avionics are connected to an audio panel.

Pilots may use preset alert thresholds or set custom limits for advisory messages. The GCO-14 is expected to be available in the second quarter of 2025 through Garmin-authorized dealers with a list price of $549.

From AOPA.org, private pilots sought to fly sim for science. Federal contractor Engineering and Information Technologies, Inc. is looking to recruit 100 private pilots to perform a one-day paid research study related to aviation safety for the FAA's Civil Aerospace Medical Institute.

EIT supports the FAA's research and development efforts at the FAA's William J. Hughes Technical Center at the Atlantic City International Airport in New Jersey, and the study will be conducted there. During the eight-hour day, pilots will be expected to operate a single-engine fixed-wing flight simulator in aid of aviation safety in the field of human factors.

The criteria for participants are narrowly defined, excluding pilots who hold any certificates other than private pilot or any additional ratings or endorsements. Applicants must be at least 18 years old and hold a valid third-class medical. Pilots must provide proof of having performed three takeoffs and landings in a single-engine fixed-wing aircraft in the six months prior to the application, according to the job application posted on LinkedIn.

Applicants are not eligible if their six-month currency includes operations of helicopters or gliders. The pay will be determined after submission and approval of all required documents. If and how much compensation would be granted for travel expenses will be decided on a case-by-case basis. And finally from Wikipedia.org, a little bit of American aviation history. Tommy Fitz was an American pilot who flew from New Jersey and landed on the streets of New York City.

While intoxicated, Fitzpatrick, a resident of Emerson, New Jersey, stole a Cessna 140 from the Teterboro School of Aeronautics at the Teterboro Airport in New Jersey at approximately 3 a.m. on September 30, 1956 and

and flew without lights or radio before landing on St. Nicholas Avenue, near 191st Street, in front of a New York City bar, where earlier he had been drinking and made an intoxicated barroom bet that he could travel from New Jersey to New York in 15 minutes. The New York Times called the flight a feat of aeronautics and a fine landing. For his illegal flight, he was fined $100, equivalent to $1,160 in 2024, after the plane's owner refused press charges.

And believe it or not, this clown did this twice. Two years later, just before 1 a.m., Fitzpatrick, again intoxicated, stole another plane, a Cessna 120, from the same airfield and landed on Amsterdam and 187th Street in front of a Yeshiva University building after another bar patron disbelieved his first feat.

For his second stolen flight, Judge John A. Mullen sentenced him to six months in prison, stating, quote, had you been properly jolted then, it's possible this would not have occurred a second time. Fitzpatrick said, quote, it's the lousy drink that caused him to attempt the stunt.

And of course, you should never drink and drive, but I think old Tommy took that advice way too literally. Tommy passed away in 2009 at age 79. That's the news for this week. Coming up next, a few updates, including the preliminary report on the crash of a Cessna 208 that crashed in Alaska last month, killing 10 people, and on the flex jet runway incursion at Chicago Midway that forced a Southwest jet that was just touching down to go around.

And later we'll be talking with Adam Brown about PAL Skyhope and their mission of mercy. All right here on the Aviation News Talk podcast. And now let's get to the good news. First, congratulations to Chris Raffo. He passed his instrument. He says, thanks for all the great content. I wait every week to see if you are publishing a show. And it's my absolute favorite podcast.

Well, thank you, Chris. My favorite too. And congratulations to Martin Stolfa. He says, a couple of days ago, I achieved a personal milestone, my commercial. It took nearly 18 months of training, building hours and mastering maneuvers and emergency situations. Twice I was on the verge of taking my final check ride, but my instructor said, not yet. Each time it felt like a crushing setback. But every time I deliberately returned to my mission of becoming the safest possible pilot. That's what we talk about here, right?

That renewed focus reminds me that this wasn't just about passing a test, but about truly being ready. Well said, Martin. Congratulations. And if you have good news to share, just head on out to aviationnewstalk.com and click on Contact at the top of the page. Also, if you want to support the show, both of these people sent donations to

It's very easy to do. Just go out to aviationnewstalk.com slash support. And hey, if you've been listening for a long time and feel that you're getting value from the show, we would love to have you sign up and support the show. And here's a short email from Jason in Oregon. He says, I flew to Walla Walla, Washington this weekend in a Cirrus. And there was a gentleman at Gorge Aviation who said he recently saw a brand new Cirrus G7 in Hermiston, Oregon, where you stopped on your way back from Knoxville.

You apparently did a 360 to let him and his learner land ahead of you. He was impressed by that and by you taking the time to speak with him. I just thought I'd pass on the positivity. You know, it's funny. I don't remember doing the 360, but yes, of course, anytime there's any potential conflict, I try to figure that out long in advance. And in this case, apparently decided that a 360 would delay us enough so that this other aircraft that was in the pattern would be able to land ahead of us.

We've got lots of updates today. Sadly, just after recording the news, I saw that there was a fatal Cirrus SR-22 crash on Thursday involving November 969 Sierra Sierra at Barwick Lafayette Airport. That's 9 Alpha 5 in Lafayette, Georgia. It appears that the aircraft may have been doing landing practice and unfortunately the two people on board died.

On the third loop around the pattern, the aircraft flew a tighter downwind, just 0.6 nautical miles offset from the runway. It's likely the pilot was practicing a power-off approach and so purposely got closer to the runway. The ADS-B track ends just at the base to final turn, and it had been descending at about 1,000 feet per minute, which is consistent with a power-off approach.

At that point, the aircraft's ground speed was 70 knots. Airspeed was certainly a little faster. And it appears that the aircraft was about to overshoot the final. So this is quite likely another stall spin accident on the base to final turn. The aircraft was landing on runway 20 and the winds at the time were 330 at 10. Our condolences to the friends and family of the two people on board.

And the TSB in Canada has published the preliminary report on the crash last month of Delta Connection Flight 4819 that crashed on landing. You may recall that this flight ended up upside down on the runway and miraculously all of the 80 people on board survived.

Here are some of the key findings. Initially, things looked fairly normal. At 212 and 26 seconds, while the aircraft was descending through 175 feet AGL, its indicated airspeed was 144 knots with a ground speed of 121 knots and a rate of descent of 672 feet per minute. The thrust remained at approximately 64% and 1%.

Four seconds later, while the aircraft was descending through 153 feet AGL, it's indicated airspeed increased to 154 knots, whereas the ground speed did not change appreciably, consistent with a performance-increasing wind gust. The pilot flying pulled back the thrust levers and as a result, over the next five seconds, N1 decreased from 64% to approximately 43%, where it remained until touchdown.

the airspeed began to decrease. At touchdown, the right main landing gear contacted the runway. The aircraft was in a 7.5 degree bank to the right with a 1 degree of nose up pitch and 3 G's of vertical acceleration at a rate of descent of approximately 1,100 feet per minute.

So this aircraft banged very hard down on the runway. At touchdown, the following occurred. The side stay attached to the right main landing gear fractured and the landing gear folded into the retracted position. The wing root fractured between the fuselage and the landing gear and the wing detached from the fuselage, releasing a cloud of jet fuel which caught fire.

The report also says that the manual states that the pitch attitude at touchdown should be between 3 degrees and 8 degrees, depending upon the VREF speed of the aircraft, so this aircraft's nose was pitched too low. Also, it says a hard landing is defined as a landing at a vertical descent rate greater than 600 feet per minute, where the aircraft's gross weight is less than or equal to the maximum landing weight.

So it hit the runway at about twice that descent rate. Interestingly, I have seen similar kinds of results, though not as dramatic, when Cirrus pilots are fast on final and pull the power to reduce airspeed. Inevitably, a high sink rate develops, and that's what happened in this case.

When I'm fast on final, instead of pulling power, I raise the nose, which effectively slows the aircraft without giving you a high sink rate. Note that this pilot touched down with the nose fairly low. Raising the nose would not only have slowed the aircraft, but it would also have brought the pitch attitude into the target range of 3 to 8 degrees.

We've talked before on the show about my preference for using pitch to control airspeed on final, especially if you're in a faster, slick aircraft like the Cirrus. If you're in a slower airplane with lots of drag, such as a Cessna 172, you can get away with controlling airspeed on final with power. But as you step up into higher performance aircraft, you'll find it's much easier to control airspeed on final by adjusting the pitch of the aircraft.

Southwest Airlines is back in the news, and not in a good way. On Thursday, one of their flights departing from Orlando started its takeoff roll on a taxiway. Flight 3278 to Albany had been cleared to take off on runway 17R. However, the flight crew began the takeoff roll on Taxiway Hotel. Taxiway Hotel runs parallel to the runway in question. The error occurred about 9.30 a.m. local time, prompting swift action from ATC, which canceled the takeoff clearance.

The aircraft reached a ground speed of nearly 70 knots before the crew aborted the maneuver and brought it to a safe stop. And the preliminary NTSB report is out for that flex jet that crossed an active runway in Chicago Midway, forcing a Southwest jet to go around on February 26th. Here's just a small portion of that preliminary report.

The Southwest jet's approach was uneventful, and the autopilot remained engaged until approximately 500 feet AGL. As they continued the approach, both the captain and FO visually surveyed the airport and noted seeing a GA aircraft taxiing on a surface perpendicular to the runway and assumed it would be holding short of runway 31C. Now, this is critical.

When you are on short final, look at the entire length of the runway and along both sides of the runway and note any aircraft on the runway or near the runway. And if you see an aircraft, check it periodically during the approach to verify that it won't interfere with your landing. Continuing from the report, the FO indicated that after hearing the aircraft audible 100-foot call, he realized the GA aircraft was not stopping and was going to cross on to runway 31 center.

The FO stated that he called for a go-around and the captain executed it. The flight crew indicated that standard go-around procedures were applied and the maneuver was executed smoothly and without incident. And then moving on to the FlexJet, they indicated that they called the ground control and asked for taxi instructions from the signature ramp at Whiskey. However, the crew stated the response they received did not make sense to them. They were initially given a clearance to taxi to runway 22L via Foxtrot taxiway and hold short of 4L.

After the flight crew requested ground control to clarify the instructions, they were given a new taxi route of taxiway alpha to taxiway foxtrot with a hold short of runway 4L. When they were on taxiway foxtrot, ground control instructed them to turn left onto runway 4L, cross runway 31L, and then hold short of runway 31C.

The flight crew initially read back the instructions incorrectly. However, the ground controller immediately reissued the instructions and received a correct readback. The flight crew of FlexJet 560 indicated that as they turned left onto runway 4L, the sun was impeding visibility from the right side of the aircraft. However, they did not recall seeing any hold short line pavement markings or any other signs for the 31L intersection as they taxied onto runway 4L.

They stated that taxiway Foxtrot and runway 13R-31L were in close proximity to each other, and by the time the nose wheel had straightened out, they were likely halfway across runway 13R-31L. They further stated that runway 13R-31L appeared to have a very similar width to taxiways. It's true, it is much more narrow than the other runways at that airport, and that they had not recognized it as a runway.

The captain stated that as he approached runway 13 center and 31 center, he had thought it was runway 13 right, 31 left. As they approached the runway intersection, the crew stated they both looked to the left and right and did not observe the southwest jet on final.

As the FlexJet approached the hold short line for runway 31 center, the ground controller instructed them to hold short, but the transmission was not acknowledged. As they were crossing runway 31 center, they were contacted by ground informing them to hold position. So I think a key takeaway from that is to always understand your taxi instructions, and if you're unsure, stop and ask for a progressive taxi.

And here's an ASRS report that was written by a pilot. This was first published in generalaviationnews.com. He wrote, I was flying public benefit flights in a Cessna 172 with passengers. I completed weight and balance and performance calculations before the flight and all checked out within limits. On the takeoff roll for the first flight, I noticed a much longer ground roll that I'm used to and the climb was super slow at VX, as little as 150 feet per minute.

This put me within about 80 feet vertical of an obstacle tower at 675 feet AGL that we were using to navigate our route visually and much lower than I would normally be while exiting the delta.

I noticed we were lower than I was comfortable with, so I deviated to the right and had approximately a half mile clearance from the obstacle. The rest of the flight was uneventful. On the next flight, I requested a lower passenger load that would put me even more below max takeoff weight and again within limits. I had a better ground roll, takeoff and climb rates of approximately 300 to 350 feet per minute, which I still was uncomfortable with.

The rest of the flight was uneventful, but due to the high density altitude, I decided to call it a day and not perform further flights. I learned that even though the performance numbers and weight and balance check out, you still may not get the performance you expect or need during high density altitude days.

I also suspect that the organization running the flights relied on self-reporting a passenger weight, and I may have had a higher load than I thought I did. In the future, I will have a much higher margin below max takeoff weight to account for this, and or use my own scale to weigh passengers. An uncertainty of passenger weights is always an issue, especially with public service flights. I did probably a dozen flights to Mexico taking volunteer doctors and dentists,

And I was never shy about asking for people for their weight. In fact, the pilots in the organization had a pretty close idea of the weight of many of the people that flew with us.

And the preliminary NTSB report is now out for the tragic crash of a Cessna 208B caravan that crashed onto the ice near Nome, Alaska on February 6th. The report says that the aircraft, November 321 Bravo Alpha, operated as Bering Air Flight 445, was destroyed when it was involved in an accident near Nome, Alaska. The pilot and nine passengers were fatally injured.

The aircraft was operated as a Part 135 scheduled commuter flight. The pilot had flown multiple legs and was flying from Uniclete to Nome, Alaska. At 3.14 local time, the controller informed the pilot that the runway at Nome was closed and expected to reopen in 10 to 15 minutes. The controller asked that if the pilot wanted to slow down a little bit to prevent the flight from arriving before the runway reopened, that would be fine and the pilot acknowledged.

About that time, the airplane's airspeed began to decrease and was accompanied by a reduction in engine power. The aircraft leveled at 6,000 feet MSL. About 15 seconds later, the airspeed reached about 110 knots. However, it increased to about 120 knots about two minutes later.

Two minutes after that, the controller instructed the pilot to descend and maintain 4,000 at the pilot's discretion, and the pilot acknowledged. Shortly afterwards, the airplane began to descend. Three minutes later, the airplane leveled at 4,000, and the engine power started to gradually increase. The airplane's airspeed was about 112 knots and gradually decreasing. Half a minute later, the autopilot disengaged. At that time, the aircraft's speed was 99 knots.

About 19 seconds later, the airspeed had decreased to about 70 knots, and the altitude was about 3,100 MSL, which was the end of the data available from the onboard avionics. During that time, the aircraft had turned from a westerly course to a southerly course. The pilot held a commercial pilot certificate and had been employed by the operator as a pilot since March 2022.

The pilot had accumulated about 2,500 hours total flight time, including 1,060 hours in Cessna 208B aircraft. A fuselage cargo pod was installed along the bottom of the fuselage. At the time of the accident, the airplane was configured with two pilot seats and nine passenger seats. The airplane was equipped with a TKS ice protection system.

The TKS system was designed to provide ice protection fluid from a tank in the cargo pod to the panels, propeller, and windshield to prevent the accumulation of airframe ice. The POH supplemented for the TKS system specified a minimum indicated airspeed of 95 knots be maintained for operations in icing conditions. The supplement also noted that the maximum allowable gross takeoff weight for flight into known or forecast icing conditions was

was the same as that of the basic airplane, which was 8,807 pounds. A customer service rep at Nome stated that the ice protection fluid was available and that the pilot informed her that the TKS tank was full.

FAA records revealed that the aircraft was equipped with the aircraft payload extender system. The modification provided for an increased maximum gross takeoff weight of 9,062 pounds. The flight manual supplement also noted maximum weight for flight into known icing conditions. Cargo pod installed referred to Cessna approved AFM or supplement.

According to the operator's load manifest, the baggage and cargo weighed about 709 pounds. The preliminary weight calculation for the accident flight indicated that the gross takeoff weight was about 9,776 pounds. This was about 969 pounds over the maximum takeoff gross weight for flight into known or forecast icing conditions.

It was also about 714 pounds over the maximum gross takeoff weight for any flight operation. Post-accident examination of the airplane contents indicated that the baggage and cargo weighed approximately 798 pounds, so almost 100 pounds more than on the manifest.

Based on that information, the airplane's estimated gross takeoff weight at departure was about 9,865 pounds, which was about 1,058 pounds over the max takeoff gross weight for flight into known or forecast icing conditions. Now, the aircraft had been in cruise at 8,000 feet and weather at known before the accident was

was broken ceiling at 2,700 feet, broken clouds at 3,500 and overcast at 5,500. Temperature was minus 10 degrees C. So while the report doesn't say this, it's quite likely the aircraft was picking up ice in flight. Being over max gross weight is always a bad thing, but having ice on the wings and getting too slow can make an aircraft unflyable at any weight.

Coming up next, our conversation with Adam Brown, talking about PALS Skyhope and their mission of mercy. All right here on the Aviation News Talk podcast. And now let me tell you a little about Adam Brown. He has 2,500 hours of total time and flies a Cirrus SR-22 and is part owner of an Eclipse jet. These days, most of his flying is for PALS Skyhope, where he is chairman of the board. And now here's our conversation with Adam Brown.

Adam, welcome to the show. Great to have you here. Max, it's great to be here. Thank you. Well, let's dive right in. Tell us about the story behind the founding of PALS Skyhope and the need that was identified early on. So PALS started almost 15 years ago in 2010 by three pilots in the New York, New England, Maine area looking to provide transportation for medical patients and veterans in

and roping their friends in, networking, raising money, and growing the organization to a point where for

15 years later, we've provided over 34,000 flights, more than 4,000 families, and the pilot network has expanded to over 550 pilots up and down the eastern U.S. Yeah, so it's clear to me that the main business that you're in, if we can call it a business, is transporting medical patients. But what made Sky Hope really interesting to me was that you've got some other services that you provide as well. Tell us about what you do for military veterans. Yeah.

Sure. There are a few different ways we support military veterans and their families. One is we work with a few different camps. One is the Travis Mills camp in Romaine. Another is Camp Southern Ground in Fayetteville, Georgia.

And these are places set up by veterans for veterans and in some cases, first responders and their families to help deal with traumatic experiences that they may have been through, whether that's mental trauma and PTSD, or in many cases, physical trauma. We deal with a lot of amputees, people who've been wounded in combat or in the performance of their duties. And they take those veterans and their families, they give them a camp experience and

but with counseling and activities in a place to recalibrate and readjust to civilian life. We also have a program called Pals for Patriots. We do that in association with Major League Baseball. And in that program, we will fly a group of veterans overnight to a Major League Baseball game

And the team makes them feel very welcome, usually brings them onto the field, puts them up on the scoreboard, makes a big deal of their visit. And often these are folks coming in some cases from places like Walter Reed Hospital. And it's, again, a chance to get out from whatever situation they're currently in, give them a break and let them have some recreation and some fun. So we will fly them.

help them stay overnight and bring them back to wherever they came from. And then thirdly, of course, we also provide where they need help medically, a long distance from where they live, just like we would for our medical patients. We'll provide transportation for them. And often the service animals are their families and so on, as well as equipment that they may need. And so far, we've done over 2,200 flights for veterans and their families. That's really commendable. I'm glad that you're doing that kind of work.

And I guess you're using essentially the same pilots for both of your missions? We do. With veterans, they tend to sometimes need some slightly more capable equipment. If you have folks who have, let's say, prosthetic legs, it can be hard for them to get up on the wing of a low-wing airplane like a Cirrus, for example. So a plane that's a little easier to get into, like a light jet or a turboprop, can be more suitable.

They may also bring service dogs, some of whom can be really quite large. They may have wheelchairs, and they're often going longer distances. And they're also not as good at packing. We see guys show up with those large duffels that they're used to shipping around the world. So a little bit more payload and range can sometimes be helpful for those missions. Yeah, I think that's really great. Now, let me ask you, I've seen also that you sometimes provide airline tickets. What kind of partnerships do you have, and when do you fly people on the airlines? Yeah.

So we have partnerships with JetBlue and Southwest primarily, and they generously provide us vouchers to provide commercial air travel to some patients. We tend to use those as a backup. I hope later on in this conversation, we'll get to talk a little bit about safety and some of the unique aspects of flying patients. But one really important point is we want patients, and importantly, the pilots, to

to be able to make good safety decisions about when not to go on a particular flight. So we always look for ways that wherever possible, patients can have a backup way to get to their appointments.

And we use those commercial vouchers as a way to back up and give an alternative so the pilots don't feel pressured into making decisions they might not feel comfortable with. Yeah, that makes total sense. Any other kinds of things from a safety standpoint, things that you're doing either for training of your pilots or ways that you collect information about what people are learning as pilots that maybe could be done differently? Yeah.

Yeah, plenty of things. We have a pilot and safety committee as part of the organization made up of volunteer pilots and board members, all of whom are pilots. We're always trying to learn about what happens on our missions, ways that we can help pilots make good decisions and make the flight safer and more comfortable for passengers.

So it starts with the minimum requirements. So in order to be a pilot for PALS and for other volunteer pilot organizations, we ask for a minimum of 350 hours PIC time, at least 50 hours in the type of aircraft being flown. You need to be at least a private pilot with an instrument rating. We ask you always to fly on a flight plan, usually an instrument flight plan. And then we also will encourage pilots

good decision making by pilot. Ultimately, it is up to the pilot in command

which missions they take, whether they go or don't go on a particular day. But we provide resources to help them make those good decisions, including lessons learned, peer mentoring, sort of second eyes on a flight, optional risk assessment tools that they can use in order to choose whether to take a particular flight or not. I'm curious, you mentioned the qualifications. Do people have to do any kind of checkout with you? They fly with somebody or do I just sign up on the web and I'm good? Or how does that work?

We don't do a particular checkout. We do look for those qualifications and recency as well. So we look for at least 12 hours of PIC in the type of aircraft that you're going to fly within the previous quarter or two hours of instruction in the previous quarter. And we do look at your logbooks. We want to see your logbooks to show that you have done that. There's a fine line here that all VPOs have to walk when it comes to

The VPOs, the volunteer pilot organizations, are not in operational control of the flight. And that's important to not get wires crossed with the FARs about transporting people from place to place. These are part 91 operations. The PIC is the pilot in command.

And there's only so much that volunteer organizations can do in terms of dictating how the pilot is going to conduct that flight. We promulgate best practices. We encourage sharing. We put a lot of information out to help pilots make good decisions. But ultimately, it's going to be up to the pilot in command to do the right thing. And I saw online that you've done some town halls with pilots. What are those like?

Yeah, we do. Every couple of months, we do town halls with our pilots. We'll bring in guest speakers. We have one coming up in a couple of weeks' time, actually, where a good friend of mine, Mark Hansen, who's extremely active with something called the Air Care Alliance, which is sort of an umbrella organization of volunteer pilot organizations,

is going to go through safety scenarios. So he's collected hundreds and hundreds of stories from his own personal experience and people that he knows distilled out what were the lessons learned about what went well or didn't go so well with a particular flight and what lessons can be learned and how did the pilot react and what could potentially be done better next time.

And these go from everything that can be unexpected. It could be something mechanical with the airplane. It could be the passenger has never flown in a small aircraft before. We get that a lot. And they show up with baggage maybe that's unsuitable, despite the fact that our mission coordinators will tell them what they can and should bring. It may be that they're feeling anxious about flying in a, quote, small plane for the first time.

It may be weather that gets in the way. It may be something, you know, you're at a remote airport and getting the IFR clearance is hard because there's no phone coverage and the RCO is out of service. So how do you launch and, you know, deal with the flight planning considerations?

Maybe that you're going into, as we often are, from a rather remote airport into a busy Class Bravo airport, and it might be the pilot's first time going into a Class Bravo airport. So how do they think about that? How can they get prepared for that? All of these scenarios that...

Some of which you'll have come across if you've been a private pilot flying yourself or your family around. There'll be things that you've learned, but when you start flying passengers for the first time who are not your family, who are maybe not used to general aviation, you're flying into places you haven't been before in conditions you haven't been before. Murphy's law crops up and all kinds of interesting things will happen. Yep. Good old Murphy. Hey, talk a little bit about the Air Care Alliance. I know that they list many, many similar organizations around the country. That's right. So

PAL Sky Hope is one volunteer pilot organization. As we've discussed, we focus on flying veterans and we fly medical patients. We are one of dozens, if not hundreds, of other volunteer pilot organizations around the country.

Some of those are focused on similar missions, primarily medical flights. But there are organizations focused on completely different volunteer missions from environmental monitoring to rescue pets to turtles to disaster relief. There is also a group called the Air Care Alliance, which is a sort of an umbrella group that tries to just bring all of those groups together with best practices together.

And what I would say to folks listening on this, if you are interested in becoming a volunteer pilot and you're not in the PAL Skyhope area, which is the Eastern US, then the Air Care Alliance can help direct you towards volunteer opportunities in your region that align with things that you're interested in, would like to do. So they're a great resource for folks all over the country who'd like to investigate volunteer flying. And they'll refer you to those organizations.

And I'll include a link to their organization in the show notes. And I'm very familiar with them. I've done flights in the past with Angel Flight, which of course is listed among their organizations there. Now you mentioned East Coast. Tell us a little bit about the service area. For example, where most of your flights are right now, as well as the areas that you're looking for more volunteer pilots in so that you can expand.

So we started, as I mentioned, in the New York and New England area. And it's still the case that about half our flights are in Maine, upstate New York, the Northeast generally. But we do serve really the whole eastern U.S., east of the Mississippi. And we have flights down in Florida and Georgia and the Mid-Atlantic, Appalachia, the Ohio Valley.

And we're growing in all of those areas. So really, we're looking for pilots everywhere in that east of the Mississippi. I would say, especially in places like West Virginia, Virginia, Western Pennsylvania, Ohio, and then down Georgia, Florida as well. The need is everywhere. When you look...

at some statistics about the prevalence, if we just take cancer, for example, the prevalence of cancer, the number of missed appointments that occur due to transportation being a barrier, and the number of times that that transportation is distances of 100 to 500 miles or so. It's in the millions every year in the US. It's an incredible number.

And so the need is there. The need is in every part of the country. And so if this is something that you have the time and resource and willingness to do, I would say sign up because it gives you a reason to fly. It gives you a lot of great experiences and it helps do some good in the world with the skills and resources that we're lucky enough to have as pilots. Yeah.

Tell us a little bit about some of the people that either you've transported in the past or that come to mind. Yeah, I mean, I've been flying with Pal Skyhook for about 12 years. I've done close to 300 flights with them, with all sorts of different people from young children up to much older folks. And it really is a wonderful assortment. So I'll just give you a couple of examples. Two days ago, I flew a young girl, 11-year-old girl and her family together.

They live up in Eastport, Maine, which is the easternmost city in the US. There's a small 4,000-foot strip there. And she needs to go back and forth to Philadelphia, to Shriners Hospital. That's an 11- or 12-hour drive each way. And that's assuming there's no traffic in Boston or New York, right? If you go in the dead of night, it's an 11- or 12-hour drive each way.

And this young lady both has autism and scoliosis. So she has back issues. So you can imagine her having to sit in a car for at least 12 hours. We can get her there in, I think it's an hour and a half. So it really is a significant difference for them to be able to fly that instead of having to drive it.

And her mother told me that as a result of us being able to fly her back and forth, she is probably years ahead of where she would be in the progress of the treatment of her scoliosis. Being forced to drive back and forth like that would have set her back years.

We have other patients, especially cancer patients in Northern Maine. So Presque Isle, Maine is not even as far North as you can go in Maine, but it's still 400 miles from Boston. I don't know if people appreciate how big Maine is unless you live there.

It's a good seven or eight hour drive, or it's an hour and a half in a Cirrus. And we have a lot of folks who need transportation from Presque Isle or the surrounding area to places like Dana-Farber for cancer treatment. For some reason, middle and northern Maine is one of the higher cancer incidence regions in the country. Maybe it's pesticides, maybe it's paper mills. I don't know the reason, but just statistically it is cancerous.

And unfortunately, the hospitals in Northern Maine are not great when it comes to that. And so we see people who receive diagnosis, they go to Bangor, which is the regional medical center, and Bangor will sort of tell them, we can't do too much for you, I'm sorry. But the folks who then seek a second opinion, look for other treatment options, rapidly discover that Boston and New York are two of the best places in the world to receive treatment for these things.

And now transportation becomes a question for them. So we've dealt with lots of people, including multiple people from the same family who've had to travel back and forth multiple times for diagnosis, second opinions, and then hopefully treatment that may occur every couple of weeks over many months that they need to be going back and forth to Boston, let's say, to receive that treatment.

And when we see them in remission and recovery, it's wonderful. And they then spread the word and we find out, you know, they tell other folks who also unfortunately have the same needs. Tell us about Natalie. Natalie. Natalie was a little girl that we used to fly from more the middle of Maine. When we first started flying her, she was about two years old and she had a neuroblastoma, a particularly aggressive type of brain cancer that

It turns out that Memorial Sloan Kettering in New York is the place to go, at least in this region, if that's what you have. But again, that's probably a 12 to 14 hour drive to have to do that. We started flying her when she was about two. She was making regular trips. And when I first met her, she was...

She was not a happy camper. She was in, and as her mother explained, she was in constant pain. She had no hair. She was bald. She had an infusion pack that had to be carried around and was on sort of tubes the whole time while she was flying with us. So we were getting her back and forth, but it was, you know, life was not good for Natalie. Over the years, we continued to fly her back and forth for four or five years. And by the time she was six or seven,

She had grown to a normal size for a seven-year-old. She had all her hair. She was a sweet, loving, laughing little girl who wanted to show us her ballerina moves every time we met her. And she stopped coming for good reasons. She was in remission. They had cured her. And that was just a wonderful thing to see. And as we fly patients over multiple years and see their development, it's a very heartwarming thing. Yeah, that's a great story.

What kind of airplanes are used for most of your flights? The airplanes that get used are everything from four-seat single-engine props, something as common as a 172.

all the way up to, I think we have one Phenom 300 in the fleet with one of our founders. But I would say most of the flights are done in four-seat single-engine pistons, lots of Cirruses, of course, Bonanzas, those sorts of aircraft, a smattering of turboprops and light jets. And I'm assuming that people don't have to own an airplane to do this. They could rent and fly a mission for you?

That's absolutely right. You do have to supply your own aircraft. We cannot do that legally. But you can rent a plane, you can have a plane, you can borrow a plane from a friend. And what do you feel motivates most pilots to fly these flights? It's a reason to fly. Look, I've been flying for 30 years, but it was always as a hobby for me and I would be able to fly a little bit for work.

But, you know, after you've been every way you can for the hundred dollar hamburger and you've done it eight times, you know, every day trip you can possibly make from where you live. You look around like, you know, I love flying, but why am I still doing this? Volunteer flying gives you a why. It not only challenges you to go to new places, meet new people, fly types of missions that you might not otherwise do.

but it's a way to give back, to use the resources that we have in a way that helps people, shows people what general aviation can do for small communities and the country overall. And yeah, it's just a way to

It's a way to use your time and resources for good. It's as simple as that. Yeah, I love that. And I think give back really best describes how I felt when I did probably a dozen missions to Mexico with Los Medicals, Faladoras, the Flying Doctors, and have also done some angel flights in the past. Now, there's also a tax benefit as well, right? There is. So I'm not a tax advisor. Let's just be clear. But my understanding is that you are able to...

write off part of some of the cost of your flying as an in-kind donation. It is generally the variable cost of the flight. So things like fuel fees and so on, but not aircraft maintenance. If you rent an aircraft, my understanding is that you can write off the full cost of the rental of the aircraft as well as fuel if that's not included. Yeah. Nice benefit. I'm curious, does it make sense for pilots to sometimes bring a co-pilot or helper along with them?

It absolutely does. There can be a few reasons for that. One is to help with the logistics, just to help with the patients, help with baggage, help them get in and out of the aircraft, help with the safety briefing and so on. A second pair of, if that person is also a pilot and can act as a right seat co-pilot and just help with the workload of a busy IFR flight, that's never a bad thing.

And it's also a great way for pilots who don't yet meet the minimum number of hours, the 350 hours that we require. It's a great way for them to potentially build some time, see the mission firsthand, and

until such time as they can become command pilots themselves. Yeah, and I started out in the right seat going to Mexico as well because I didn't have the 500 hours, but it was a great way to start building up some of that time as well. Now you mentioned logistics. You obviously have staff. What kind of work do they do to help support the pilots and the whole operation? Yeah, we have a wonderful staff of 11 people, I think, to keep the organization running.

They're focused in a few different areas, the largest being mission coordination. So if you think about what PALS does, we are matching two sets of resources or two sets of demand and supply. We have patients who need to go somewhere on a particular date and time, and we have a pool of pilots.

And our mission coordinators are in the business of putting those two together. So they talk to the patients, they find out where and when they need to go. They will talk to them about how they should think about packing, what their alternatives can be, understand how many people they want to bring, all of those sorts of things. And they will then go and try and find pilots who are willing to fly that particular mission. That is a full-time job. It takes many phone calls to organize a single flight. And our wonderful mission coordinators do a fantastic job of doing that.

We also have folks who are dedicated to building our pilot community and to building our patient community. One of the challenges for any VPO is not only recruiting pilots, it's also finding patients. And if you think about it,

This is not something that anybody knows exists or frankly needs to know exists until they really need it. And when they need it, they have other concerns. They're dealing with illness. They're dealing with stress. They're dealing with maybe worries about financials. And so it's a constant effort on the part of Sky Hope and similar VPOs to be reaching out into the communities that we serve and let people know that we're there, let people know that we can help.

And we do that through local presence. We do that through online advertising. We do it through the patient navigators and the social workers at the hospitals or medical facilities where people are showing up or need to travel to.

But that takes effort and time. Also, we have staff who do that. And then the final piece of the puzzle, we have pilots, we have patients, we need money to run all of this. So we have a small development staff who are raising money to help pay for the staff to do all of that good work. All of the costs, you know, the vast majority of the costs are

the donations in kind by the pilots flying, but you still need to have those staff running the office and running the organization. You brought up an interesting question. And I'm sure for most organizations, this is a huge challenge, the funding. What are some of the sources that you've used to fund the organization?

They say that running a nonprofit is like trying to fill a constantly leaky bucket. So we have a number of different ways that we try to do that. We have some very generous donors, including some of the folks who founded the organization, who've been extremely generous in helping fund the organization up to now.

We run a lot of the typical events that people run, dinners, galas, silent auctions, those sorts of things to try to get money in. We sponsor runners in a number of major marathons. New York Marathon, we're hoping for Boston this year. We're doing Tokyo and Sydney and I think Frankfurt maybe or Berlin this year.

And so runners will who, you know, the marathon community is wonderful and they're extremely engaged and they're very good at raising money so that they can run in these prestige marathons. So they provide funding for us as well.

And we have a number of wonderful partners in grant sponsors who help provide funding for the organization as well. So it's a mix of different things and it's a constant hunt. So I'm interested in the marathon aspect. How does that work? Are they putting Sky Hope on the back of their shirt or how do they raise money that then comes to you? So marathons, I'm not a runner. So...

But for people who run marathons, the opportunity to run in a major one like New York or Boston, that's a big bucket list item to do. And so they are happy to

raise money in order to earn a bib, a race number to be able to compete in those events. And so we ask, what we do is we'll be assigned a number of slots in a particular marathon. We will ask people who want to run in those to raise a certain minimum amount of money in order to be able to run. And they do that. And they know they're running for a good cause. People are happy to give them money to support them.

to support a good cause. And it's proven to be a very nice way for us to fund our organization. Thanks for explaining that. I had no idea. So what are some of the current challenges for the organization? What's kind of on the top of your list of things that you'd like to see the organization be able to do more of?

It's all about every year trying to fly more patients to more places with more pilots. So we flew over 3,100, I think, missions last year. We're trying to grow that by 10% to 15% this year. In order to do that, we're constantly trying to engage more pilots and get our existing pilots to fly a little bit more often during the year.

And then it's the engaging the patients. So being out in the communities, finding the people, having them know that we're there for them, that we will fly them as often as they need, as many times as they need, for as long as they need. They will never see a bill. We'll never ask for anything in return. Getting that story out is critical and constant and takes time and effort and money.

And you actually have to break through a certain amount of skepticism that that's a real thing. You can imagine putting yourself in the position of someone who lives in a remote area, a very rural area. You're very self-reliant. But you need to go somewhere long distance, and it's a daunting prospect for you. And somebody tells you that somebody is going to show up in a private plane and fly you

As many times as you need, and you're never going to see a bill, and they'll never ask for anything in return. It's like, no, that's not going to happen. But it does, and we do it. We do it day in, day out, every single day. Once you start to get some trust in a community, the word begins to spread. But you have to go and constantly do that and constantly reinforce that message with folks. So there isn't one thing. It's that constant...

raise our profile in the communities that we serve, recruit more pilots and get them to fly more often and just keep that flywheel spinning. Yeah. I can see how people would be skeptical because in general, there's no such thing as a free lunch. And yet here you do have a free service. So one of the things I think people may not fully understand about doing things like this is yes, you're helping others, but as the pilot, you're getting a lot back yourself. Talk about that. Absolutely. I mean,

First of all, as we've discussed, some of it is just the knowledge that you're helping people, you're doing good with the skills and resources that you have. You can also gain a lot of experience as a pilot. I mean, I think I have a total of maybe 2,500 hours. I actually don't know how many hours of those are PALS flights or Skyhook flights, but it's going to be a

a good fraction of those. And in that time, I've had the opportunity to go to places I would never otherwise have flown to, whether that's in rural Maine or out in Ohio or Western Tennessee or really all over the Eastern US. We get to fly into the smallest places

most rural places that you can fit your aircraft and then take them to Boston Logan or to Dallas or into Teterboro or, you know, busy, busy, busy airports in some of the most congested airspace in the world. And so the ability to do both of those things on the same day is sort of unusual.

When you do fly into a Class Bravo airport like Boston Logan, as a Skyhook flight, you're not going to pay fees. Signature and Massport would usually hit you up for a couple of hundred bucks to land your Cirrus there, but they will kindly waive all of those fees. So you get the experience of these very busy Class B operations surrounded by heavy aircraft without having to fork over for the privilege. And that adds to your experience as a general aviation pilot.

You get to fly in whatever conditions you are comfortable and you and your aircraft are capable of flying. So cancer doesn't wait for summer and spring flying. It's all year round. Up here in the Northeast, we get some pretty nice weather during the winter that we have to deal with.

And so as a pilot, it focuses your attention on good decision-making, not taking missions where the weather conditions would exceed the capability of you and the aircraft. That often means making good decisions about icing or thunderstorms or winds that exceed the capability of your aircraft or the accumulation of small risk factors, each one of which wouldn't particularly affect you, but when you add them all up together,

turn the flight into something where the risk profile is just not worth taking. On the one hand, it pushes you a little bit to be good at that decision-making. I don't want to imply that any of these organizations, and certainly not us, will push you to do any flying that makes you uncomfortable or is outside of your safety envelope.

Yeah, and I think one of the big things is I think back over 50 years, some of the most satisfying flying I've ever done was that which I did for volunteer organizations. I think it just feels good to know that you're out there making some small difference in the world. So certainly I'd encourage pilots if they haven't done volunteer flying yet to give it a try. Absolutely. Yeah, it really changes the way you think about flying. It changes your reason to fly. I've been flying for...

20 years before I started volunteer flying and a little bit for business, but it is now the main reason I go flying is either to do volunteer flights or

to train, to be proficient for volunteer flights or to maintain my aircraft after too many volunteer flights. Yeah, no question. After you visited a hundred airports nearby, it starts to get a little boring to some extent. And yet here's a mission. Here's a reason to go do things. I felt bad that one guy locally I worked with bought a Cirrus and all he did was fly from one airport to another and he got bored and he sold his airplane. I think if he'd had a mission like this, he'd still be flying today.

I think that's right. And so many of our pilots say the same thing. It is the reason they go flying in the morning or every day.

So many of our pilots say this. It's the reason they go flying. Yeah, it certainly makes you feel good. Well, tell us, where do people go to find out more information about PAL Sky Hope? So our website is skyhope.org, and there is a section on there for pilots, and you can read all about what we look for. There's a sign-up form, and we would love to have you on board. And then if you're not in the eastern U.S. or you'd like to fly, you'd like to find out about volunteer missions other than Flying Patients and Veterans,

aircarealliance.org is the place to go and they can refer you to one of the many other volunteer pilot organizations around the country. And we'll include those links in the show notes. Adam, thank you so much for what you do and for joining us here today. Max, it's been a pleasure. Thank you.

And my thanks to Adam for joining us here today. If you're looking for something new to do and you haven't tried volunteer flying, definitely check it out. If you're on the East Coast, go ahead and check out PAL Skyhope at their website, skyhope.org. Or if you're elsewhere in the country, go to aircarealliance.org and find an organization in your area.

And just a reminder that I love hearing from you and I read many of your emails on the show. If you'd like to send me a message, just go out to aviationnewstalk.com, click on contact at the top of the page. That's absolutely the best way to send me a message. And of course, I also want to thank everyone who supports the show in one of the following ways. We love it when you join the club and sign up at aviationnewstalk.com slash support to

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right coming down. Don't wait until you're silent, baby, sliding upside down. You can all