IFH 781: From Pre-Med to Marquee Lights: Jenny Paul's Journey of Creative Bravery and Storytelling
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You are listening to the IFH Podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork.com. Welcome to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, episode number 781. Cinema should make you forget you're sitting in a theater. Roman Polanski.

Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood, it's the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast. I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Filmtrepreneur, how to turn your independent film into a profitable business.

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Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis. My guest is an actress and producer who's known for Jessica Jones, That Reminds Me, and the upcoming Hulu series, The Looming Tower. We're going to be talking about all that stuff besides fun stories about the Fong Wong bus, which is some pretty cool stories, and also about producing, going to auditions, all that good stuff. With guest, Jenny Paul.

Yeah, no, it's funny because I had sort of a general Instagram for a while. And then my agent slash manager, she said that I needed to go figure out how to kind of do Instagram. And so like the last couple of months has been me, you know, kind of slowly but surely figuring out how to do Instagram as like a concept. So you were actually one of the first people I met. And I was like, oh, well, this is perfect. Now I should always do Instagram. Yeah.

So like figuring out how I'd interact with people and like what it means to have followers versus people you're following and all the sort of weird ins and outs of it. So, so did your agent, like have you noticed that with a lot of actors, do agents usually promote actors and actresses? Do they say like, Hey, you need to be on social media more? Yep. Um, so I'm, I'm a Facebook fanatic and I always have been, I think, I think, you know, this is dating me a little bit. I, um,

Facebook came out when I was a freshman in college. So that was sort of my, that was sort of my, um, you know, entree to social media and

I'm really good at Facebook. And that's kind of the only thing I ever learned. And then Instagram and Twitter came out. I went, okay, sure. But now, especially Instagram is becoming one of the major things that they look for in terms of, you know, having having presence on on the internet. They're not so much Facebook oriented as they used to be. And now Instagram is sort of the thing. So yeah, there are a lot of a lot of people that kind of look at Instagram stats in terms of

hiring and things like that and influence as it were. Yeah. You know, Facebook came out at the same time, uh, cause you and I are about the same age. So, uh, you know, we, I was, I think a freshman in college too when it came out. I remember when it was just for campuses, like memorable in certain schools only were getting Facebook and, and they would be, it would be like a big thing when it actually came to your campus.

Yep. Ours got it pretty early and that made us feel very smart and special. We were like maybe the 10th or so school and we were like, ha ha. And then of course it became very big, very fast. And the Ivy Leagues were the ones that really got it first, which is kind of crazy. I guess it's not crazy at all seeing as it came from a Harvard grad, but it was really, it was kind of,

Even then, it was such a huge deal, and it just got bigger and bigger and bigger. Yeah, so where did you go to college? I went to Brandeis in Boston. It's a tiny school outside of Boston that is known for good academics and its very large Jewish population. And that's the two things people know about Brandeis. So if anybody knows what it is, they go, oh, yeah, isn't that school Jewish? I say, sort of-ish, yeah, it's pretty Jewish.

You know, it's funny because the school I went to was very, very small too. And basically, like when they got it, I was like, why on earth would Facebook want to come to this school? And I don't remember what year it was exactly, but I remember we got it and I was like, what the hell? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it was just, it just didn't seem like it would fit any purpose. But then I look back on it now, that's when the school, even though it was small, was actually doing well. And now, you know what I mean? Like, but I guess, you know, that's why. Yeah.

Was your school in the Northeast? Yeah. That might have had something to do with it too. I think like Boston area got it first and that kind of thing. So it could easily be. Who knows? I don't know. But I thought it was –

I was like one of the first people to jump on board thinking it was so great. And then realizing that like most people in the country weren't on it. So it was just like, Oh, okay. Yeah. Right. It's like, well, there's nobody on it yet that I actually know. It's just people that I go to college with. But, um, so did you study acting in college?

I did. I was acting in high school for fun and I actually went to college for pre-med. So Brandeis has a really strong pre-med program. And basically when you apply there, you know that if you go there and you finish their pre-med that 85 percent or more of the graduates of that program go to medical school.

So that was why I went to Brandeis. And it just so happened they had a really great theater program. And as I'm doing reasonably well in pre-med, my parents are doctors. And I sort of hit the point in my second year during organic chemistry, which I think is like the ultimately worst.

class in terms of people leaving out of pre-med. And I called my dad and I said, you know, I, I just like, I don't know how you got through 12 years of this. I just, you know, this is just really awful. And he said, well, Jenny, I liked it. And I was like, Oh, well, there's that.

So I kind of reassessed and I had been taking theater classes to blow off steam effectively because pre-med was very stressful. In order to keep your A's, you really had to work really, really hard. So I had already sort of mounted half of a theater major by the time I decided that being a doctor maybe wasn't my path. So that's how I ended up sort of doing theater. That's kind of what I was doing for fun on the side of pre-med. Okay.

Yeah. So, you know, it's funny because I actually was thinking about going into pre-med. It's funny. Our stories are kind of very similar, but no, no, I'm serious. It was, it was odd. I mean, but, but you know, when you're in college, you kind of want to do a little bit of everything, right? You kind of go, I want to go do this and do that. And then you end up going, I don't know why I'm doing any of this stuff. You know, I'm like, it's almost like you're in too deep to quit at some point.

Yep. Well, I kind of would have been maybe given another semester. I would have just done it to do it. But at that point, I was like, well, I've got two and a half years left of this plus another eight. I wasn't anywhere close, you know, between medical school and residency and internship and all the things that were coming down the pike. And I was like, this is just not happening. And

And but, you know, the baseline of it and I don't know if your story is similar. I wanted to work with people. I really love people. I've always really loved people. And getting, you know, getting to know people and help people in some regard has always been sort of my path. And my dad, like I said, was a doctor in Dallas. And he's a he's kind of everybody, you know, he's one of those guys that, you know, everybody loves Dr. Paul.

And he just he loved it so much. And he all the people in his community loved him so much. I just thought, well, you know, dad does really well with this. Maybe this is this is for me. And I realized that I can do the same helping of people as it were and sort of, you know, being part of those communities without actually helping.

doing it in a way that like wasn't of full interest to me. I like science, but I never really loved it. And like he said, he really loved it. And you really have to love it to go through that for 12 years to just get to the point where you're working. You really do. Yeah, it's very true. So, you know, you know, you found out you didn't want to do it. So at what point did you decide to go to with acting full time?

It actually took me a few years to get to that point. I had it in my head that acting was like a dumb idea. And that was always how it was. I loved it in high school, but that's what you do in high school. And I loved it in college, but you do stuff in college. And I sort of kind of was going along that way thinking maybe I'll produce or maybe I'll direct or maybe I'll... We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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I give scratchers to my boss and I give scratchers to my wife. I give Virginia Lottery holiday games to every adult in my life. I play the New Year's Millionaire Raffle and online games just for me. It's always a season of fun when you give and play the Virginia Lottery.

The holidays are here, and before you stress about who to shop for and what to buy, here's a hint. Give the gift of the Virginia Lottery. Adults of all ages love the excitement of holiday scratchers, and the online games are perfect for that holiday downtime. Don't overthink and overspend. Celebrate the holidays with the Virginia Lottery in stores, in-app, or online. And play the New Year's Millionaire Raffle for even more excitement this season. And now, back to the show.

Be in business administration and arts capacity or, you know, figure something out in the realm of theater and art that wasn't as, you know, quote unquote, ridiculous as acting would be.

Um, so it actually took me almost the full three years of college to decide that I was meant to do it. Um, I actually had a, a, a mentor who was on a show in the seventies that just happened to work at Brandeis tiny school again. Um, she was, um, she was on the show called knots landing, which was a

a big deal and she had a regular role and she and I sort of just fell fell in together you know out of randomly she didn't even work for the theater department at all and she was sort of my mentor through college and through the senior year of college when I was sort of she said you know she came and saw me plays and things she was like so when are you moving to New York then I was like well you know maybe I'm not I don't really know and she was like why not and that was kind of my year of somebody just sort of

looking at me and saying, you know, what the heck? Why don't, why don't you do it? You're good. You clearly have a passion for it. And you know, why don't you try? And I kind of went, well, okay. And it, you know, took me an existential crisis or two to get to that point. Um, so then I started on a weekend, uh,

My senior year of school and I was auditioning, you know, I'd take the Fung Wah bus for anybody who knows that bus. Scariest bus ever that for ten dollars from Chinatown to Chinatown. And I would audition for whatever, you know, whatever show I could get in to be seen for. And I go back to school and I booked I booked Funny Girl before I even graduated. So I moved out to New York to do Funny Girl pretty right away.

And so, yeah, that's how I ended up here. And I just, you know, kept looking for the next job and they kept on coming. And that was, you know, and then to realize how crazy the business is of just having to keep pounding the pavement forever and ever and ever and, you know, carve out your own space in the universe here. But that's how I ended up here is basically one foot in front of the other and kind of trusting that maybe this was the right path, even though it seemed completely ridiculous and still sometimes good.

Yeah. You mentioned the Chinatown bus. Before we start talking more about your career and everything, you mentioned the Chinatown bus. I've taken the Chinatown bus as well. I mean, I know what you mean. It's sometimes that you're kind of like, is this bus going to fall apart as we're doing like a thousand miles an hour down the highway? Yeah.

Have you ever been on it where it hasn't like stopped or broken down? Like I've never, I don't think I've had a successful run on that bus. It's so scary. And I remember we're driving one time we're driving down the, uh, I think it's the 95. That makes sense. Down, um, from Boston to, uh, New York and halfway through, we pass a Fong Wah bus, like on the side of the road that like actually was on fire.

And I was like, oh, my God, I can't. I can't even. I can't. I can't. And then I just sort of like took a deep breath and like pretended like I didn't see it and just kept going. And I was like, you know what? They can't get off the bus now. It's too late. And then, of course, you know, five or six years later, it's eighty five thousand options. Thank God. But then not so much. Yeah.

That was the $10, I'm going to save money and be a college student and hope I don't die bus. Yeah, the craziest story that I ever heard about that, a friend of mine was taking that bus and the driver was just going maybe 100 some odd miles an hour or whatever, just flying, speeding down on 95 because this was Philly to New York.

So, and what he did was, he said they ended up getting pulled over and there were so many violations with the bus. They were like, we can't actually let you keep going with this. Oh, yeah.

That's hilarious. Yeah, he was like, well, he goes, I made this decision to take this. So now whenever I go to New York, I always take the Bolt bus. It's kind of the same price, but at least, you know, I don't feel like, you know, we're going to burst into flames like your story.

Oh, yeah, absolutely not. And it just did. The Bolt bus wasn't around then. I mean, you know, it wasn't like a ton. It wasn't a million years ago, but that was the only one. Then I think Megabus and Bolt came around. And now there's like a whole bunch of there's a whole bunch of different ones that go. But then that was there weren't that many options. I think it was like Greyhound and the Fun Law. Yeah. Yeah. The bar was so low that they could just come in and take all the business.

Yeah, well, and Greyhound is, you know, I'm sorry, Greyhound, but it's a really not great company either. But at least they don't blow their buses up. Like, that's just, they're just, you know, if you go to Port Authority here, even now, and you're on a Greyhound bus, and you get there half an hour early, there's no guarantee you're on the bus with your ticket. Because they, like, they'll let the people that miss the 6 a.m. bus on, and then the ones that miss the 5 a.m. bus ahead of them. And so if you're on that bus and you're not there, you know, an hour ahead, good luck.

So mega bus and bolt bus. Yeah. Two thumbs up. Yes, definitely. Take those. No, no, no experiences that I've heard of nor had on either one of those buses that weren't just like riding a bus and getting there.

So once you finally made it to New York without just bursting into flames with the bus falling apart, you actually got your first role. So take us into that. Again, I know you touched on it just briefly a couple minutes ago, but what was the audition process like? And when you finally got to New York, what was that whole experience like?

I didn't book the first thing off the bus, not at all. I was doing it every weekend, as many auditions as I could get in to be seen. So the first big event that happened was I was in for the Producers National Tour, and I still sing, but I sung a lot more then. I was more musicals than plays and other things. So then I was mostly going after musicals because that's sort of the world that I knew pretty well.

So I had been in for the Producers National Tour, and if you know the producers at all, they have a whole chorus of little old ladies, as it were, that dance.

In the middle, there's an act break called Along Came Bialy. And so in the musical, there are three little old ladies that are cast and they're usually not actual little ladies. They're like people, you know, in their 30s or 40s that dress up like little old ladies because they have to dance a lot.

Um, so my first big thing here was actually, I was in callbacks for the national tour. Um, and I sort of kind of threw caution to the wind a little bit and saying a song kind of, uh, from, from the show spam a lot that was popular right around then. Um, but I changed all the lyrics to match the, the producers sort of,

little old lady mentality, which I was very scared to do because, you know, they always tell you like, don't do anything too crazy in the room. Otherwise they're going to look at you like you have five heads. But sometimes, you know, it's the right thing and you do it and you just hope that they, that they play along with you. Um, so I sang a song from Spamalot,

called where are you and I basically chewed the scenery and for anybody who doesn't know that term like basically like was a complete goofball in the room and I got called back for the national tour and I didn't end up booking it um but that was my first big okay I'm in New York I got taken seriously by somebody you know maybe I have a shot at actually doing some of this stuff

And then a few weeks later, I came in to audition for Funny Girl. And I had done Funny Girl in high school. So I had a particularly good relationship with that show because it was I played the Fanny Fanny Bryce's mother in the high school production. And it was one of the first shows that I had like a major role in. And then I really knew that I really dug into and really got behind the character and really sort of

my own artistic voice in rather than just being in a play I could really make interesting decisions and kind of get behind the character in a real way

So what happened with Funny Girl here is I assumed that I would be auditioning for like a chorus part or for even maybe an understudy for Fanny because I was the right age. Fanny is usually between, I would say, 20 and 40. So she gets older during the show. So really anybody in that age range can play it. And I thought I was just kind of taking a shot in the dark for a chorus part. And they saw that on my resume that I had played the mother.

And they asked me if I could sing the mother song. And I said, sure. You know, I kind of went, OK, sure. You know, I'm not going to get cast as a 60 year old woman. It's not happening. So I sang this song called Who Taught Her Everything She Knows, which is the mother's like, you know, big moment in the show. And then I was changing out of my clothes to go get back on the bus, as I had been every weekend for the last couple of months.

And they actually caught me in the hall. They pulled me aside and they said, actually, can you come back? And I said, sure. So I had already changed, which was kind of awkward. And they were like, wow, you're quick. And I was like, you know, theater. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

I give scratchers to my boss and I give scratchers to my wife. I give Virginia Lottery holiday games to every adult in my life. I play the New Year's Millionaire Raffle and online games just for me. It's always a season of fun when you give and play the Virginia Lottery.

I give scratchers to my boss and I give scratchers to my wife. I give Virginia Lottery holiday games to every adult in my life. I give scratchers to my yoga instructor, my mailman, and my friends. With the lottery's New Year's Millionaire Raffle, the possibilities never end. And when I need some time alone to keep from going insane, I open up the lottery app and play the holiday online games. The best way to bring joy all season long and be a gifting MVP is giving holiday games from the Virginia Lottery.

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So I came back in in my jeans instead of the dress that I actually showed up in and ended up singing a few songs through for them. And what it turned out they were doing is it was a fully staged production, but it was more of a concert version of Funny Girl. And because of that, they didn't really have any problem casting a weird anything. And they were scrambling for a mother. And they asked me to play the mother.

And so that was my first New York experience was playing the mother of somebody that won a Tony the year I was born. So that's the line I like to say. So basically, the woman who played Fanny...

won a Tony for a show called Jerome Robbins Broadway. Debbie Gravitt was her name. The year I was born. So that was my first big New York experience. And I thought to myself, I was like, well, this is weird. And then, but you know, job's a job and I love the role and I love the show and I had no problem with it.

And I thought it was awesome. And then after the fact, they actually switched directors mid-run. The director that took over for the original director actually brought me in for the mother again, like for a Broadway house or for Westchester Broadway. He called me in to play the mother. And I was like, huh, interesting. Yeah.

You're being typecast already. Typecast is the 65, you know, 60 to seven year old mother of Fanny Bray. I did not get it that time and I was not expecting to, but I thought that was crazy. But, you know, I guess, you know, with makeup and theater, you can kind of do anything to some degree. I mean, I hope that people weren't like, what is this girl doing, doing this? But, you know, they had me in plenty of makeup and a wig and whatever. So what the hell?

So yeah, that's how I made it to New York is I just kept auditioning for everything, anything I could get my hands on, anybody that would see me my senior year of college. And I basically just carved out every single weekend to do it. And so I moved here, um, to start rehearsals for funny girl. And I booked a show the day I moved here, different show, um, down at the 13th street repertory theater, which is, um,

which the woman is now, I think, 102. Really? Then she was in...

It was 90. The woman that cast me was 90. Um, I, I, last I checked, she's still alive. Um, I went to visit her a few weeks ago and her son was there since her name was Edith O'Hara and her son's named Jack O'Hara. Um, and I saw, I ran into her son and they were moving her from her house to a home of some sort. So I wasn't able to see her, but I'm, I'm pretty sure she's still alive.

Last time I saw her, she was pretty with it. And we took a selfie together and she was 99. And apparently that was her first selfie. What do you think the secret is to for her, you know, that longevity, you know, still being able to do what you love, you know, at that, you know, the age of 90? Oh, man, she was so brilliantly stubborn, that woman, like in the best possible way.

So her daughters are, a couple of them are pretty famous, I think. Her daughter, Jenny O'Hara, was the mom on The King of Queens. And her daughter, Jill O'Hara, was the original cast of Promises, Promises. And she sang that song, What Do You Get When You Fall In Love? That one. And she sang it originally, Burt Bacharach's song.

So her kids did really well, too. And I think her son Jack is a musician, a pretty, pretty good one, if I recall. So I don't know. I think she just lived, you know, she was here and she was really passionate about everything. So she was, you know, she was fixing blocking. She was like moving herself to go fix blocking on stage for a play that I was in with her.

That was the one that I did just after Funny Girl. And she if she didn't like something, she just moved. She got up and she said, no, no, no, not this way. I want it this way. And she had, if I remember correctly, she had macular degeneration. And she still every day would, you know, get up and go to rehearsal and, you know, and make make sure the show looked like she wanted it to look.

So, yeah, I don't know. I think – I mean she was a pistol, so maybe that's the key to life is just having passion and energy for everything. I don't know. I'll find out. I'll let you know in another 64 years. Please do. Please share. If I make it to 35, it will be a miracle. Right? That's kind of how I feel. I'm like – I'm going through – I mean life is good, but –

you feel yourself getting older. You're like, okay, this, this hurts. This didn't used to hurt, you know, this kind of thing. And you go, okay, well, I hope, I hope it, uh, I hope it holds out a while. That would be good. I, you know, I, I always say to people, I'm, I'm kind of like the guy you shouldn't, shouldn't ask about, you know, uh, you're only as old as you feel because I perpetually feel like I'm 99 years old. So that's why I mean, so, so with Edith, I was hoping to get some tips cause I, and mentally and physically I'm 99 years old.

I don't know if I'm 99, but I think like solid 80s. That's where I think I am. I just like – I wake up and I go, okay, today is happening. Cool. Let's move on. But you're in your 80s. At least you know what a selfie is though. That's the important thing. I do know what a selfie is. I very much know what a selfie is, although I very much disapprove of the duck face.

Yeah. I will say. Yeah. The duck face is just ridiculous on everybody. I'm sorry, guys. I'm losing it. Yeah, yeah. It's passe. I once got into an argument with somebody at their wedding because they accused me of making the duck face. And I said, I never would make that face. What are you talking about? And it was like a photograph of me in front of a car. And everyone was like, oh, I think you didn't make the duck face. I was like, no, I didn't. Come on. Why would I make a duck face? Thank you.

Maybe you caught me in a duck-like scenario, possibly. The only duck face you'll ever catch me making is with the two Pringles. That duck face, I approve of. Yeah, yeah, I remember that. I remember those commercials. Where you put the Pringles on top of each other and you get a beak. That's a duck face. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember those commercials. True.

So for everyone listening, we were like, why the hell are they talking about Pringles now? But it's all good. I just want to get back, Jenny, to talk about your career. Sure. Because I actually looked at your IMDb and I was like, wow, she's had a pretty interesting career because you not only have one foot in acting and one foot in producing. But when did you, because you were in theater, you were on the stage, when did you start to make that transition to film?

Oh, great question. I think around, I mean, I was always sort of predisposed to it. My acting style was always a little bit

on the more natural side, even in theater. And I always had to sort of push to make it energetic enough to fill a stage. And that was always something that I naturally, if I got to choose for myself, I wouldn't have done. But I also knew that that's what the medium required. So I guess maybe four or five years ago, I started doing film stuff. And it, again, felt more natural to me

I love theater and it's a totally different beast and I do it all the time still. But just kind of being able to kind of talk and do things at a level that made sense to me in my life.

And, you know, and I always think of good storytelling as revealing truths and, you know, allowing an audience member to sort of feel what you're feeling to some degree and not to feel alone in their feelings. And so to me, film and television at its best really is that same nuanced thing as being a humanist. So if you can look at something and recognize it as real, then inevitably you're going to be able to relate to it more.

And that's the thing about, and again, it's all about, it has to be good. It has to be good writing. It has to be good production value. It has to be everything else. But it's the closest thing I think we have as a society, as an actor anyway, and maybe even in storytelling, it's arguable, but that mimics life most closely. And I think that's what's really attracted to me. So maybe the answer is foresight.

Five years ago, I started doing a lot of small films and web series, things like that. And then in the last few years, that sort of has morphed from little things into bigger things.

And that's sort of how my trajectory was in theater as well as, you know, everything was regional houses and things like that when I first started. And then, you know, I would be playing leads in the regional houses. And that's around the time I started transitioning into film and TV. Also, the pressure, you know, it's different. I would say it's a little less in film and television because you can always get another take. ♪

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I give scratchers to my boss and I give scratchers to my wife. I give Virginia Lottery holiday games to every adult in my life. I give scratchers to my yoga instructor, my mailman, and my friends. With the Lottery's New Year's Millionaire Raffle, the possibilities never end. And when I need some time alone to keep from going insane, I open up the Lottery app and play the holiday online games. The best way to bring joy all season long and be a gifting MVP is giving holiday games from the Virginia Lottery.

- This season, give the gift of the Virginia Lottery's Holiday Scratchers to all the adults in your life. But don't forget to play the Holiday Online games and New Year's Millionaire Raffle for even more excitement this season. Play in-store, in-app, or online. And now, back to the show. - That being said, you know, it's an interesting, there's a lot of differences, but I think that's the answer to your question. And I really, you know, I really love both of them for different reasons.

Yeah, yeah, you know, and just working with different actors, you know, even some of whom were like, I actually was working with them in their first film project. You know, they noticed that it was a little bit different because you can do multiple takes. You know, there really isn't an audience except for maybe the director. And if you want to count the crew and anybody else, you know, like maybe some other cast watching the scene. But you know what I mean? You do get multiple takes, you know what I mean? And you do get the ability to change, you know, change characters

you know, making a change, you know, like in acting, you say making a change or, uh, you know, and it actually, it, it does take off a lot of that, that, that pressure sometimes. Yeah, no, I mean, it really does in certain ways. And like I said, they're just kind of different. One of them, you know, I think any, any really good actor will tell you that the rehearsal process is where a lot of the major creativity happens on stage and on film, it's always a rehearsal process. They're just taping the rehearsal.

So you're learning, you know, you're learning and discovering

as they're taping it versus doing, you know, I would say 90% of your learning and discovery in rehearsal, bringing it to the show at 90% and then finding the nuance as you run the show. So it's, you know, it's just, it's a different playground as it were. But I really do enjoy it and, you know, not having the pressure on does make a big difference in some regards because especially when you're coming up in the business, you want to make sure that, you know, that you give,

And a lot of times your absolute best doesn't necessarily need to come with an entire, you know, truckload of adrenaline, as it were. And that's kind of, you know, that's kind of what happens when you're when you're newer to things and, you know, when you're trying to sort of figure it all out.

Yeah, and that's what we all do too sometimes. You just kind of – sometimes you jump into things and sometimes you end up taking things too seriously. You know what I mean? And what I mean by that is you want to be serious about it because obviously this is your craft. This is your passion. But sometimes – and this has happened to other people on the podcast as well where they kind of lose sight of that. This was supposed to be fun. What was the original idea behind this? Because they end up –

Yeah, I know those people. I might have been one of those people in college. Exactly.

You know, it's the idea of like you can't do the essay until the last possible second. And then you put out a brilliant essay and you realize that if you just had another day to edit it, that it would have been that much better. Yeah. Yeah. It's like everything's always last minute. Like everything's a disaster. Oh, my God. What are we going to do? Exactly. Exactly.

You know, I mean, there's a lot of that mixed into this business as it is. The more that you, you know, as an artist, the more that you can do without that, you know, then you have the energy reserves for the times where you really need it. Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, so just going along with your career, Jenny, you got to appear on Jessica Jones and that's something I saw on your IMDb as well. So when you appear on that show, you know, did you just go to the did you go to an audition? Did you get, you know, somebody reach out to you for the for the part?

Oh, no. So most things, for the most part, most television and film, unless you're Meryl Streep or somebody really important in the industry, is auditions. Everything is. And a lot of times they'll audition you even if they already want you because they want to make sure you're the right fit for that role. So no, actually, that was the second time I was in that casting office. The first time, I believe I was in for The Defenders, although one of

And they audition you for things. They actually use code names for everything. I think they want to make sure that you're not leaking information all over the place.

So I'm pretty sure it was The Defenders. And I went in and auditioned for something and didn't hear back. And then I called back in a few weeks later for this one. And I actually, the role was for Fangirl. So that's not quite the role that I ended up in. And I actually think they rewrote it between the time that I auditioned and the time that I auditioned.

shot it. But the role was for fangirls. So I came in in my, I have one Marvel sweatshirt that I got from running the half marathon in LA, the Disney half marathon, the one marathon

that I ever ran for any reason. Won't do it again. Probably. It was just epic. Um, but so I have the jacket that says the Avengers on the back. So I wore that and I wore some like kind of my goofier like earrings and stuff. And I came in as full fangirl to the audition. So yeah, that's what I remember about that audition is I just had a lot of fun with it. I came in and I was like completely, um, sycophantic and I was, you know, played the full on fangirl, um,

for that piece. And then I got a call, I think the next day to put me on hold for that. And then I found out a week later that I got the role actually. So it was really fun. The casting offices, they're really nice and they're really a generous bunch of people. And so it was absolutely a pleasure and it was very easy and quick. And, you know, I went in and I did my thing and I got a call, you know, and I, and I do, I go in and do my thing all the time for

Lots of people, but it was there was something, you know, overwhelming about it in any way. It was just like, oh, you know, she asked me, would you like to be on a Netflix show, you know, on the Netflix Marvel show? And I said, absolutely. Yes. And I didn't actually find out until I got to set that it was Jessica Jones. I had no clue.

So that was kind of fun finding out that it was Jessica Jones because I knew from just watching the shows and from that that was one of the more popular ones. So it was cool that it was that one because I really had no idea as far as I knew they were going to

create five more shows and this is one of them I had that quick. Yeah, you know, in Marvel, you know, and all the other comic book, you know, properties, you know, Marvel, DC making all their, you know, all these TV shows and movies, you know, it's, I've had other people on the podcast just talking about, you know, all the content being made by, you know, existing properties right now, you know what I mean? It's just, you know, the one movie right now as we're recording this is Black Panther, you know, and it's just, I'm sorry?

I said, yep. I was going to say I've heard amazing things about that movie. You know what? I'm going to admit I'm actually superhero movie out. I had friends who wanted to take me to see Thor Ragnarok and I'm like, I just can't. I just can't do it. It's fair. It's really fair. There are so many and that's really – it's really dominating the movie scene to some degree. So it's like, which superhero movie you can see today? Yay! Yeah.

But but no, and some of them are, you know, are actually, you know, I think going into Netflix and making something episodic is actually more beneficial because I think you can you can you can tell it a different way. And I think sometimes with the movies, I always feel like I always say to people, they're just a setup to the next movie.

which I understand what they're doing, and believe me, I'm not one of these cynical people. I'm just saying it's almost like they have a great idea for a story, but somebody goes, no, no, no, that'll be the sequel. This is going to be the... You know what I mean? I just think that type of... Yeah, yeah.

I totally get it too. And, you know, it's the concept of like, you know, as a viewer to some degree that you're being marketed to, but also like you, the stories usually are pretty freaking good. So you want to enjoy what they do have. Yeah, I totally get that.

So, you know, and just to go back to my question about, you know, just about how you got cast in Jessica Jones. I just I was just, you know, basically asking, you know, I know, you know, actors have to go to auditions and stuff like that. I what I meant to say was just about your network. I thought maybe, you know, just meeting different people like, you know, Jenny, somebody may have said, hey, I know this girl. She does. You know, she's great at this. And you got a phone call to come down for the auditions. What I meant was what I was trying to say, because like sometimes, you know, that that's happened. Oh, yeah.

You know, where people have called in or people have called people and just said, hey, look, you know, I know that there's a hey, you're looking for a specific looking person who's a huge fangirl. I know a person. Her name is Jenny Paul.

Not this one, I don't think, but it's happened before. I would say that the big network ones, they're usually auditions and it's usually kind of the same story where you go in and you got a script a day or two before, maybe three days before and you, you know, you kind of get to know it and you do your audition and you go home.

Um, but for the smaller stuff, for the, you know, for, for, for web series that are more kind of indie and streaming films and indie films and, and anything that's sort of on the middle scale of money budget that happens all the time. I get calls all the time to do things. I'm doing what I'm doing a, um, uh, a pilot. I'm reading a puppet pilot next week that I'm real excited about. And, um,

The person that invited me to do it, there's a writing team. One of the writers worked with me on a show. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. A year ago, a version of A Christmas Carol that we did in Brooklyn for a couple of nights. And the other one directed one of the web series that I was in a few years ago. And

They thought of me. They both knew me and they both knew the work. So a lot of especially on the development level and on the sort of mid budget level, a lot of it is, you know, you get a call. So, yeah, absolutely. Knowing people and New York is a big, small town, as it were, in terms of this business.

So knowing people is essential for all of the sort of miscellaneous jobs. And even with the big jobs, my manager, my agent have to know me in order to put me up for a thing. So there's a barrier to entry to some degree.

to even get in the room to be seen for a, a, a coastal Jessica Jones or a regular on the women's tower. You, somebody has to know your work to even get to the point where you're able to audition for those things.

Yeah, yeah, very true. And you mentioned the Looming Tower, but I just wanted to, before we get into the Looming Tower and just discussing that project, I know you actually have produced, too. So I wanted to ask you, how did you get into producing? Because I think it's a great idea for actors, by the way, especially actors, meaning, because I think once they become more...

Basically, if you wanted to make something, not only just put yourself into it, but also you have a pool of actor friends, obviously, right? So you know what I mean? If you were going to make something...

You already say, like, again, like we were just talking about, hey, I have actors, I know actors. And I think that's why I always say, like, you know, producing is a very good skill for anyone to have, but particularly actors. So, you know, what got you into actual, you know, deciding to go behind the camera to produce? Right. Well, hearkening back to feeling like I'm making a dumb decision in college.

I was always sort of producing things, whether it was shows in college or I founded this thing at my school called the 24-hour show.

or musical that's now become like their tradition. And I certainly had no intention of doing that, nor did I know that it was going to be such a big hit. But it was all about creating my own opportunities. And back in high school, I was in the robotics club because one of my best friends was there. And I was the only girl in the club except for my friend.

And, um, and I ended up basically doing all the fundraising and, and effectively what, what I would do, you know, national robot competition. So this is stuff that's like been, you know, I've been doing forever and I realized that, you know, it's just a combination of sort of creative event planning as it were.

So really all producing takes is, you know, I'm going to say all, but it's a lot of hard work, but it's also just being resourceful and kind of creative. And I think most actors, as you say, most actors have,

that in spades, at least really good ones. They have, you know, most of these people are super resourceful and they're people, they're people, people, and that's a huge part of it is that you don't really go into acting if you don't like people because you spend your days, you know, kind of learning the psychology of people that what acting is that it's cool. So most people that fall into that, unless they really, really like attention, um, I

tend to be people that are collaborating with others to get something done in a cooler, creative way. So I think you're absolutely right. It's a great place for actors, especially actors with a business head, because there's tons of opportunities in producing, and they create tons more opportunities for artists across the board, not just actors.

But no, I fell into it because acting is not a full-time job, even when you have a full-time job acting. This year, I made a full salary as an actor, and I probably worked, I don't know, maybe 30 days this year, maybe. Yeah.

So there's just a lot of dead downtime, you know, I'm in auditions maybe once or twice a week if I'm, you know, more if it's pilot season, less if it's a, you know, a slower season and, and you just have a lot of time on your hands. So why not create, you know, I'm kind of chomping at the bit to do that. So why not do it, you know, do it in a way that, that, you know, I'm creating my own projects while I'm waiting for the next, the next big acting product to come along. Yeah.

So as you got into producing, what were some of the biggest challenges? What was the biggest challenge that you've ever faced as a producer? The biggest challenges are always money, always finding money, funding the things, budgeting the things. But aside from that, I would say the biggest actual day-to-day challenge for me, if I'm not looking for money for a show, is...

When somebody doesn't want to be a team player, it's really hard to do the work as best as possible. So now with a lot of experience, I try to hire the right people from the get-go, people that I know that will work together and that will team up to make the best possible art that they can make as a team. But inevitably, there's always a couple of people that are in the

crews or casts that don't, that, that, you know, kind of sabotage efforts from the inside. And that's kind of, that probably is my biggest, you know, challenge as a producer is, is spotting that really fast and making sure that,

One, that the morale of the project is really solid and strong and that everybody's going in with a good attitude as much as possible. But also just making sure that, you know, the that the priorities of one don't don't take away from the creative process of the many. And that's a little vague, but that is actually kind of the hardest thing that I deal with on a day to day is.

is people that don't have the best interest of the project in mind trying to make trouble. Drama, as it were. Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, I've encountered them myself. And I've heard some horror stories in this podcast. When you have somebody who shows up to set and just basically...

for one reason or another, doesn't want to sort of, you know, play the game, so to speak. They don't want to, you know, they just want to sort of cause trouble. And I have a friend of mine, Jenny, and not to distract from your story, but I have a friend of mine, I'm trying to get on this podcast, and he had one of the craziest stories about somebody like that. And I'll tell you what, I'll give you just a sample of the story. Basically, this person was an actor on The Sopranos, and...

basically was angry at him for not being able to destroy the project. And that's all I'm going to say. So that's my... Wow, wow, wow. That's a lot. Yeah, it's... It happens all the time. And, you know, it's this interesting thing. And, you know, this is kind of my theory is,

And, you know, maybe it's a good theory, maybe it's not a good theory, but I would say 80 to 90 percent of the people that come into this business are the most collaborative, empathetic, wonderful people that you'll ever meet in your life. And they're attracted to the arts because they had some sort of life trauma or they really they needed to be there. It was a it was a compulsion in some way. And they realized that that telling stories is the way to get other people to not feel alone in the world.

And, you know, something resonated with them and it became really important for them to do this as a, you know, as a career or as a choice in their life. And the other handful of people are super talented.

for lack of a better word, narcissistic. And, um, and they go into it because they're seeking attention. Um, and, and inevitably in something like acting or even in production, but more acting, I would say inevitably you're going to have a handful of those people because acting is such a surefire way to get that attention. Um,

If you can succeed at it. So we find a lot of people scattered around that do this stuff. And it's not because maybe they're even intending to do it. It's because...

You know, that's how they are. So they, you know, and I really, truly believe that that producing, but also acting and just art in general is is very much a collaborative sport, as it were. And it's really hard to get the best possible art made when somebody is not working toward the better good of the art.

when they're working toward the better good of them as it were, or, you know, whatever other priorities they have on the table. Um, so yeah, I, I, I'm not super surprised to hear your mini vague story about the Sopranos, but I, I've heard things like that and you know what? Things do get killed that way. I had a project that I, I, I worked on with somebody and, um,

And I found out six months later that they had fully developed it without talking to me about it. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. And and yeah, I called the production company that bought the rights to that project and said, hey, what gives? And I didn't you know, we didn't get that far. And and it scared him enough to kill the project.

And, you know, and I didn't even intend that was attention at all. I just called to say, like, hey, I was the co-conceiver on this project. It's like and you kind of knew that. So so why did you buy this product from somebody who didn't own it?

You know, and then I kind of just said like, and, you know, immediately he was like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. And then the next thing I know, they just, instead of dealing with me or whatever I could have theoretically brought to the table, they just decided to hell with it and they dumped the project.

So it does happen, you know, stuff happens. It's nuts. It's a, it's a nutsy business and people get crazy and desperate and all sorts of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And the reason, you know, I told that story, Scott, I didn't want to give away all the details cause I want my friend to tell it.

Because I – because he – because like you know what it was, Jenny? He was telling me this story one day. We had gotten lunch and he does a lot of work. He does a lot of cinematography. He's actually a cinematographer, right? So what happens is he's – we're just going back and forth. We're at one of those – the 8,000 pizza places in Philadelphia and we're just sitting there. Yeah.

He said to me, he was just telling me the story out of nowhere. And I'm like, what? That happened? And then this guy joined the project. Then that happened. Then you got this location. Then that happened. And then by the end...

He was like, it all came out of the, I mean, the story, I really got to get them on here. I, I don't want to tell it because I want him to tell it cause it's his story. But by the end I was like, I was like, did anybody get arrested for this or did anybody get in trouble? And, and he goes, he goes, well, you know what? I'm going to let him tell that. I'm going to, I'm going to leave it on a cliffhanger. Um, a lot like, a lot like a Marvel movie. I'm setting you up for the sequel. Yeah.

But, but no, no, I, you know, I had my own story too. Jenny was somebody, you know, who was just more or less, they came on the project, was interested. And then all of a sudden, as soon as you know, that, that M word money got thrown around, even though it's not a lot, it's like, Oh my God, now it's my project and you're going to screw it up. So now I got to take over and like, Whoa, pump the brakes. Let's just pump the brakes here. Yeah. Also, I think people have a miss, a miss,

misunderstanding about money in this business. It's hard to make money in this business. Like a lot of people do these things on, on spec or on, you know, low. So even, even if a project gets a lot of play, you know, on a mid level, it's still probably not making money.

And, you know, I remember my very first short film that I made and I put it on, it got a distribution platform and everything else that I put it on. And I got my first royalty check and it was for a grand total of 47 cents. Nice work, Jenny. 47 cents. And you know what? I couldn't have been happier about it because frankly, that film wasn't going to make money. It never was, you know? So it's sort of like, that's, you know, a lot of people, you know,

That's another thing about the business is that there's just no money in the business unless you hit a certain level of work. Unless you're working for a network or unless you have a sponsor, you have an advertiser or something. A lot of the work that people are making nowadays just doesn't make money.

And I heard your podcast last week, and you were talking about, you know, a lot of this, everybody can make a movie now. So, you know, you were talking about that with Lloyd. And, you know, everybody can make a movie. So because everybody can make a movie, there's tons of stuff out there that just doesn't have...

Anything, you know, any profitability, it's good creatively, but it's not necessarily making money. So it's not like, you know, everybody's champ at the bit to like make part of my 47 cents.

Yeah, right. It's the more I mean, because if you're going to make a movie and I and I've, you know, gone over this before, too, with with different guests, I always say there's no harm, honestly, in just making a short film or what have you or a trailer and then just putting it on YouTube and just, you know, making sure you SEO the hell out of it and then just saying, well, however, the chips lie. That's how they lie, because I think that's healthier, right?

And better for a lot of people than getting this obsession about, oh, we got to go to Sundance for this thing. And or like, oh, hey, this thing's going to be sold to Marvel for eight million dollars. You know what I mean? I think that that that that that mindset really starts to hinder people after a while, after a while, after a short time, too. Right.

And it doesn't. I mean, you know, at best, like, you know, we're seeing feature films make less and less and less. They're these huge, as we're talking about it, these huge superhero movies. You know, the movie that we used to go see in the theaters, like the Sister Act or whatever in the 90s, it doesn't exist anymore. If it does, it's on the indie scale. It's not what we're going to pay, you know, $15 in the movie theater to see. So these films,

these films that used to actually make some money because they were what was available don't necessarily make money. They have, they have, you know, a bit of distribution internationally and maybe they have some domestic distribution, but it's not like a big money made and people think, Oh, I'm going to, you know, do a film and I'm going to make a million bucks. And it just doesn't work that way unless there's a certain, you know, combination of people behind that movie. Yeah. So it's, you know,

Do it for the money. If you did it for the money, you would not do this for a living. It's just not – the money isn't good enough for 99 percent of the people in the business. Yeah, very, very true, Jenny. Very true. Jenny, I know we're starting to run out of time. But before we run out of time, I just want to talk about the Looming Tower, your new series on Hulu. So could you just tell me – tell us a little bit more about the series? Sure.

Sure. It's a really interesting take based on the Pulitzer Prize winning book that came out after 9-11. Basically, the book sort of talks about how the United States missed 9-11. And this is a dramatized version of a nonfiction book, but there are a lot of fictional elements. They've written a lot of fictional characters to make it more heightened and dramatic.

about how the FBI and the CIA misdeed each other in some ways enough of the information that they were getting

pre 9-11 to actually prevent 9-11 from happening. And so inevitably, the show is about, you know, flawed humans on both sides of the coin, not fully communicating. And, you know, interestingly, as we were talking about fully being on the same team to protect the United States from the attacks. And so I've only seen the pilot. I've read

I had the series. It's really, as far as I can tell, it's really going to be something fantastic. It's, it sort of feels like a really, um, intense version of Homeland. Yeah.

And I think the intensity comes from the fact that it's true or based on true things. So it's a little more, it's, you know, it's, it's a lot because it's nine 11 and, you know, I was around then I was a junior in high school. So I remember all that. But at the same token, it, it does a lot of, you know, exploring the humanity of the people that were surrounding that time and, and what was going on in the rise of Al Qaeda and,

and you know where the u.s was in terms of dealing with it and you know how it all sort of came to be so for anybody who's a history buff it'll be something really very cool because it it feels like a fiction um but it's actually largely based in reality um or at least in in reality as told by um lawrence wright who um who wrote the book um so um

So, yeah, it's really cool. I play a CIA sister. There's a like I said, there's the FBI and the CIA. And for all intents and purposes, the CIA is is the antagonist in this in this story. The guy that runs the CIA, the character's name is Martin Schmidt. And he's kind of it's quite implied that he's purposefully withholding information because he feels like it.

And I play a CIA agent that works for his department. And I sort of am a lemming, as it were. So they make jokes about he it's just him and a bunch of young women that are running this department. And they're all following him like lemmings. And I'm one of the lemmings.

it was, it was a really, really cool project to work on. And, and, you know, it's not often you get to work on something that feels like it might actually be really impactful. Um, you know, most of the time you get what you get and you do what you do and that's what it is. And that this one was, was really special. The team was,

Absolutely fantastic, collaborative. The cast was amazing to work with. The ones that were in it a little bit more than me, the people that I worked with most were Peter Sarsgaard and Ren Schmidt. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show. And they were fantastic.

to work with and the other three women that played the lemmings with me. And so it's Katie Clayhive, Sharon Washington, and Erica Cho. And, you know, it was just, it was as much fun as you have working on something that's as serious as it is.

And, you know, our characters are comic relief as well. So that was kind of nice that we had a lot of these kind of jokey scenes, which is cool. But but yeah, I'm really I'm really thrilled to be working on something that seems like it's going to be something really wonderful. And, you know, with Hulu, the hand the Handmaid's Tale just came out and did well. So I think they're really poised to get some some some real viewership on the show.

Yeah.

And then, you know, and now everyone's getting their own channels, like Criterion's getting their own channel. You know, NBC's going to start holding their own content back now. And then if you want to see, you know what I mean? And now I think that's, so the future, basically, Jenny, you and I in a couple years are going to be telling people like, hey, remember the days when you could just watch HBO and you could see everyone's movies on there? That's true. I mean, you know, I had Hulu before I booked this show because, yeah,

Because, you know, it was one of, you know, we had Netflix first. I think everybody did. And then Hulu was sort of the next big up in terms of original content. And then Amazon is the other one. So those are the three that we have. And then, you know, we ended up doing HBO Go because of Game of Thrones. And so basically these channels effectively are attracting viewership literally so people can watch one great show. And...

Now I really like Hulu because it has all the network stuff and I don't even have to turn on cable. I can just watch it on Hulu. So I watch the new, it's called 9-1-1, the Fox series. I watch that on Hulu. I watch Will and Grace on Hulu. I watch, what else did I see this week even on there? Oh, Nashville I saw at some point and I watched that on Hulu. So I mean, I don't even have to go to TV, which is...

It's kind of nuts that they're making it so that, you know, the cable doesn't even have to be a thing if you don't want it to be. Yeah. So I think that's crazy. You know, like I can't imagine a world with which cable is, you know, obsolete, but who knows? Could be. I concur. I think it's coming very, very rapidly with everyone cutting the cord and, you know,

And with so much original content out there, whether it be on YouTube or Hulu or what have you, it's just – there's a lot more options and a lot more accessible options. We don't have to have a Comcast box anymore or whatever to view these things.

But, you know, and that's something, too, that I've found just talking with people like yourself, Jenny, just, you know, what everyone is experiencing and what everyone is seeing out there when they're doing these projects and what they're being told by different people who, you know, who, you know, are sort of have their or who are sort of in the know, if you will. But, Jenny, when does Looming Tower, when is that premiering on Hulu? I believe it's premiering on Wednesday, the 28th of February. And I can't remember if it's

Actually, I don't know if it's three episodes or four episodes that they're dropping that night. So they'll do I think the Hulu model is that they they they drop three or four and then they do once a week. I think that what's happening. My guess, my educated guess would be they're going to have the first three episodes. And then for the next seven weeks after that, it'll be every Wednesday night. They'll put a new one out and it's 10, 10 episodes total.

So, um, so that's what I think, I think that's what they're doing. And,

And I'm in the first one, but I don't really show up until the third, so stick with it. Well, that's good. If Hulu drops the first four, then people can watch the first one, and then they'll watch the second. But the third one then, since it's already dropped, I think it's a little more easier. Right. Well, hopefully. We'll see. Like I said, I am in the first one. I went to the premiere last week.

at the Paris Theater in New York and I took my manager as my date. My fiance was at his bachelor party which was exciting. So I took her and she saw me in the episode and she was like, oh look, it's you! And I was like, yep, that's all you're going to see of me until episode three. laughter

But the pilot was really, really good. So I'm, you know, like I said, I'm thrilled. I think it's going to be really fantastic. And if you can, if you can stomach watching a show about nine 11 in a real way, I think, I think it'll be something really, really awesome. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, and I'm going to make sure to link to all this in the show notes, everybody. Um, because it's,

You know, I read up about the show and I think it's going to be pretty interesting too because it's always about information, right? And I think that's what technology is. One thing I've come to, Jenny, to understand is that technology – let me take a step back. Even before technology, it's all about telling stories and communication, right? And I think that's what stories are is communication. Everything is communication. Whether I'm communicating to you, you're communicating to me, we're communicating to the world. And technology has sort of –

put that on steroids now. So now, you know, now with all the, you know, everyone has their own content channels, you know, cell phones, podcasts, everything now can be told, the communication happens a lot faster. So it's a show essentially about communication and what, you know, withholding facts and stuff like that. So it's, you know, and not only that, but it's also about, you know, a very tragic day that happened, you know, 17 years ago now. My God, Jenny, 17 years ago. I just, I just, I just, I went, I went,

What? It just hit me like a sack of bricks. Oh, my God. Yeah, well, and sleeping.

At least they won't say it's too soon to do this. That'll be one thing. Yeah, yeah. I just – I mean, my God, it just hit me like literally. But it's all about communication. So I wanted – so that's why I think the show is going to be interesting about that – about September 11th. And it's a new vantage point to explore the events and a new idea about the show too that I think is – it's a unique feel to it.

But that's why, you know, and again, that's why I wanted to have you on the show just to talk about that and also about, you know, your career and everything else. I'm always down to talk to interesting people, Jenny. So you're a very interesting person. And, you know, this has been a fun conversation. So just in closing, Jenny, you know, where can people find you at online?

Um, well, IMDB is always a great place. They, uh, they, they keep good records there. Um, my, my website is actually, uh, Jenny Paul.info and not.com because, um, because I think about 10 years before I tried to get my domain name, a really nice couple named Jenny and Paul decided to, uh, come together and get married and have that, uh, have that domain name, but it is Jenny Paul.info. Um,

So, yeah, that's pretty much it. I'm on Instagram and Facebook and all of the things. So anybody can find me in any of the things I'm easy enough to find. But, yeah, that's pretty much it. And, you know, The Looming Tower and Jessica Jones is coming out March 8th. So if you're a Marvel fan or a Jessica Jones fan, that's the magic day.

And I will link to all of everything that Jenny and I talked about in the show notes. And I'll make sure to link to the right website too. Not, not Jenny, Paul.com. Yeah. And it's like, I couldn't, I was like, Oh, they must have been married. They must have like seven children by now. And I still couldn't figure out how to get the domain name. So if you're out there, Jenny and Paul, let's talk. Um, but yeah, so Jenny, Paul, that info we'll have to do for now. Yeah.

It's kind of like that. Remember those old talk shows in the 90s and stuff where they'd have a surprise guest like, well, Jenny, you're in luck. Behind this door is Jenny and Paul. You know what I mean? Remember those talk shows? They'd be like, well, you have an enemy, huh? Well, guess who's joining us? And they'd be like, what? I feel like they still exist. I feel like that's like Maury and those shows where they're like, so you had this long lost lover that you haven't talked to in 15 years. Guess what? We brought him on the show. Hey!

Thanks for that. Thanks for that. That's exactly what I needed today of all days is to, you know, confront my love for 15 years. Yeah. Yeah. Confront that old crush who, uh, who got away. Thanks a lot for rubbing the salt in those wounds. Right. Thanks. You know, I, I, I spent enough time dodging them on the subway, you know, now they're here after me. Uh, but, uh, Jenny, it's been great having you on.

I want to thank Dave so much for doing such a great job on this episode. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at indiefilmhustle.com forward slash 781. And if you haven't already, please head over to filmmakingpodcast.com, subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It really helps us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much for listening, guys. As always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive. Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.

Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at IndieFilmHustle.com. That's I-N-D-I-E-F-I-L-M-H-U-S-T-L-E.com.