IFH 789: The Indie Filmmaker’s Journey: Curt Wiser on Creativity, Persistence, and Making Cam Girl
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You are listening to the IFH Podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork.com. Welcome to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, episode number 789. Cinema should make you forget you're sitting in a theater. Roman Polanski.

Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood, it's the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast. I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Filmtrepreneur, how to turn your independent film into a profitable business.

It's harder today than ever before for independent filmmakers to make money with their films. From predatory film distributors ripping them off to huckster film aggregators who prey upon them, the odds are stacked against the indie filmmaker. The old distribution model of making money with your film is broken and there needs to be a change.

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If you want to order it, just head over to www.FilmBizBook.com. That's FilmBizBook.com. Enjoy today's episode with guest host, Dave Bullis.

This week's guest is a writer, director, producer who is currently residing in Florida. Again, I want to feature filmmakers that don't actually live in either New York or L.A. I think it's very refreshing whenever you have somebody that's not in one of those two spaces in North America, or in the United States of America, I should say. You know, this guy's latest film, Camgirl, is out now on DVD and through Amazon Prime. This is a very good conversation about writing without distraction,

finding time to actually write how he actually found an agent and a manager and a producer just by getting a script out there and also we talk a lot about making this film and how he actually did it on a shoestring budget one location we're

You're going to hear all about that good stuff with guest Kurt Weiser. Yeah, you know, you're in Florida. I forgot about that, too, up until I started actually doing all the research for the podcast episode. Because I always forget where everybody's from because I meet so many people online. That's how you and I met. And I'm always like, man, where does this person live? Well, in my worldview, Kurt, they either live in New York or they live in L.A. So I forget. Yeah.

And they don't even live in Philadelphia in my own worldview. So it's like, you know, I forgot. I sometimes forget that there are other, you know, places besides New York and L.A. Yeah, I mean, in fact, that's something I was thinking about. It's kind of weird how even on the same coast, we're kind of like in the same place.

I wouldn't say predicament, but kind of just situation where we're kind of really close to these meccas in the film industry. You know, I've got Georgia just north of me where all the tax write-offs are. And I keep seeing the Georgia peach, you know, made in Georgia at the end of like all TV shows and Zombieland and The Walking Dead. It's just like, man. So it's like kind of a strange thing. It's just like calling me north or west or something. But so I don't know. It's an interesting thing to kind of navigate. Yeah.

So let me ask you this, Kurt. When you, because you're an independent filmmaker in Florida, do you notice, like, in your area, in your town, is there, like, an interest in filmmaking? Or are you sort of like the sort of needle in the haystack, so to speak? Well, I'd say, and this is kind of interesting for aspiring filmmakers to know, is that, no, there's definitely a pretty prominent, you know, independent film

film industry. In fact, I'm sure that'd be the case in a lot of places. Like it's more, there's an active interest because it's not, it has more novelty to it because there's not, you know, big productions everywhere. And, you know, it's not like New York and Georgia and California where, you know, it's, it's,

For instance, if you have a location you're looking for, if you're trying to go to some coffee shop and you ask them, oh, what's your film here? It'd be like, oh, we're making a movie. It'd be like, oh, really? That's interesting. Oh, yeah, it'll have some...

some clout to it as opposed to, you know, New York or LA. They'd be like, okay, it'll be, you know, X amount of dollars for one day and I hope, you know, or they'll say no because they've been, you know, it's been a disaster before where they've had film crews there that, you know, mess the floor or whatever it is, you know. So I'd say it's an opportunity to get credits to kind of get an experience which I've definitely taken advantage of over the years now.

Yeah, it's one of the benefits. I always tell people if they live in the Midwest or even in any sort of rural area, they have more benefits than they think they do because you can just go out to somebody like a restaurant or a local business and at least approach them and it'd be a little easier than say if you're in L.A. and you say, hey, I really like your office or your restaurant. I'd love to film here.

And they say, oh, yeah, you know, that'll be, you know, $5,000 a day. That actually happened to a friend of mine, by the way. He actually found this little deli that opened. I don't know why. It's not really a deli. It's more of like a breakfast spot. But he basically said, hey, I like the film here. Well, they let him, you know, film there before they opened on like Sunday mornings before they opened at like 5 or 6 a.m.,

And suddenly they started like charging a little more and then asking for a little more. And then finally they said like it was going to be like $6,000 or something to film there. And he goes, what the hell? So, you know, when guys like us, we live close by. I live very close to New York, about two hours away. You probably live, what, two hours away from Georgia. You know, tons of stuff going on up there. We're right by the hubs of all this stuff.

I also am about four hours away from Pittsburgh, which is a pretty big film hub. Night of the Living Dead, man. Yeah, yeah, seriously, man. Night of the Living Dead, Dawn of the Dead, and even Day of the Dead. You know, funny you mention that. On Day of the Dead, I actually met a filmmaker who shot something where they shot Day of the Dead. And he was like, it was amazing because it was just, you know, it's so remote and away from everyone else. Yeah.

And I actually was looking for a place like that when I was a part of this one film project. Because you listen to the show, Kurt, so you know that there's been so many projects that I've been a part of that have fallen apart. So it's just, you know, when I remember mentioning these projects in passing, it's just like, oh yeah, which one is that that fell apart?

But I was doing this one and I actually contacted them and the person actually said to me, the woman who actually like, who was the property manager and she said, oh, there's actually businesses here now. She's like, we don't want to actually keep having films here. She's like, it's not profitable and there's, you know, there's so many businesses now and there's like a gravel place in here now. I'm like, God damn it.

Always late to the party. But I don't know. I just thought that would be a little fun fact for people in case they're huge Day of the Dead fans, the original Day of the Dead. So now it's like a sand and gravel place is there. You know what I've always found it fascinating when I learned it is I read a book, a biography on Romero and Night of the Living Dead, and it talked about how most people don't realize that that film changed how copyright law is. Oh, yeah.

Because as the story goes, they had the copyright notice, you know, the little logo with the title. And the original title was Night of the Flesh-Eating Ghouls or something like that. And when they got the distribution lined up, the distributor took that title card away, replaced it. And when they did that, the copyright notice went away at that time.

They didn't have it stated where copyright happens when it's committed to an existing medium. So that actually became a huge thing. As far as I know, yeah, it's still in the public domain because of that, the original black and white. That's why there's a colorized version and all this stuff, which they tried to regain the copyright. But in doing so, all it did is they have the copyright to the colored version, etc.,

So it's kind of unusual. You know, they're actually, uh, they found some extra footage now of no living dead and they're actually planning on splicing it back together with the main part of it. And then that will be the next pitch to the copyright. I actually, um, went to a no living dead screening probably about two or three years ago out in Pittsburgh. And that's one of the things that they were talking about. Um,

It was with John Russo was there. Russ Steiner was there. But George Romero wasn't there. But everybody else was. There was a ton of cast members and stuff. And that was one of the things that they were talking about was putting this one cut together and that would be the new copyright pitch.

So, but I mean, but you know, and then that movie obviously has blown the whole job zombie genre and it's just gone on to just do, you know, it's, it's etched in time now. That was a classic. Yeah. Did you know, uh, George Romero is actually doing, uh, did you hear it? It's called like, I think it's called race of the dead. No. Yeah. Like, um, death race 2000 meets, uh, living dead or something. Yeah.

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show. Basically, what's going to happen is it's about these rich people have zombie races. Sold. And basically, they have like... They're zombies in race cars. And now, like, you know, I mean, I hope it's better than the last few Romero movies because, I mean, I actually...

had a love-hate relationship with Land of the Dead. Diary of the Dead was actually not bad, in my opinion. And then there was like... What was the other one? It was like the Hatfields and McCoys feud. There was like... There was feuding families. I forget what that... I don't even know what that was called. I just tuned it out. But now we're going to see Race of the Dead, so I can't wait. The...

Yeah, I think the last one I remember was Diary. That was the one that was like found footage version of that kind of genre, right? Wasn't that that one? Okay, yeah. So that's the last one I remember seeing. But yeah, now he keeps going with it. I mean, that's your thing. That's your...

bread and butter you keep uh you keep eating so because i mean it is george romero so what happens is everybody every so often i mean he even admits this in interviews every so often he'll get a random producer will come by and say hey i have a you know a million or whatever to for you to make a zombie film and he goes okay and that's it and that's how it gets you know it happens i mean you know have you ever seen romero's work outside of zombie films

I don't think so. I saw the documentary on him and I thought it was really good. But no, I've definitely, I've just known of, you know, his interview footage and the zombie stuff. Yeah, it's actually, you know, pretty interesting. I actually like a lot of this stuff. You know, like Martin is a really interesting take on vampires. And I think, what was the other one? I think it was called like Bruiser or something.

I forget what it was called. But he actually... It was... You know, he also did... I think he did Creepshow. I mean, it's just stuff like that. It's like, you know, he actually has had... Yeah, well, it was called Bruiser. Now that I think about it. It had Jason Fleming in it. And it just... It's... I don't know. I do like his stuff outside of all the zombie stuff. I think it's kind of cool how he ebbs and flows in and out of it. But yeah, I mean...

you can't really pass up a movie about George Romero about racing zombies. You know what I mean? So you have to kind of see that movie to get it.

Do you know if he resists that, though? Do you think deep down he wants to do more of, he's got to do this romantic comedy that he's been wanting to do for 10 years or something? Or what I really want to do is a musical. You know, if he came out with a romantic comedy, I honestly don't think that his fans would know how to respond to that. I mean, I would definitely go see it.

But I mean, I think people will feel torn because they're like, well, this is the guy who, you know, made, you know, Day of the Dead or Dawn of the Dead. And,

Now he's making another rom-com, kind of like, I don't know. Remember all those rom-coms that used to come out in the late 90s, early 2000s? Remember it was like every other month. It was always about the very stressed out, successful businesswoman who meets this guy. And then, you know what I mean? You saw the commercials. Hugh Grant was in every single one of them. And you'd look at these commercials and you'd be like, well, these trailers. And you'd say to yourself, well, Jesus, I wonder what's going to happen in this film.

Yeah, or Jude Law, Clive Owen and stuff. Yeah. Although Closer was awesome. I thought Closer was, you know, really good as far as those kind of movies go. Yeah. Of course, that was based on a play, so. And it was Mike Nichols, so. You know, it can't go wrong with that. But anyway, yeah, it makes me wonder. I asked that question because of Romero and the whole, you know, not wanting to get

typecasts in a way just because you know it's something I'm having to consider now because of the first feature Cambril was kind of like a suspense thriller and very much I think filmmakers realize I know that was my impetus is that's an easy way to break in if any of it can ever be easy is you know you make a genre film because there's kind of a

built-in market for it. Same for like family film or faith-based film, because it's just such a high demand and it doesn't necessarily require named actors for a distributor to say, okay, sure. But at the same time, I definitely want to make other things and have, you know, other screenplays that are written that are in different genres, but have a same through line. Like my whole thing is,

all the scripts that I've written, including cam girl is very based on, um, the whole man, woman thing, you know, how relationships can really be a center of conflict and how it can be, you know, the best thing and the work, the best of times and the worst of times for, for, uh, if I could, uh, plagiarize that. But, um, so that's why, like, even if I've written this romantic comedy that I'm hoping to get produced, it has, it's, it's still very much, um,

based on what I think I'm strong at, which is that character-driven stuff that deals with relationships and the good and the bad of it. Yeah, you know, I found that horror is a very good way to start your career. I found, I mean, look at Sam Raimi, for instance, George Romero, who we were just talking about. You know, these guys all started in horror, and then, you know, they were able to segue to other things, and

Romero, though, just to keep going back to George Romero, he can't segue out of that zombie stuff. The zombie genre that he invented, it's become like, again, like I was just saying, that producer always comes up and says, hey, I have a million dollars, but you have to do a zombie film, or I have two million dollars, but you have to do a zombie film. Sam Raimi was able to segue out of that with Evil Dead, Evil Dead 2,

But he's done other things like Spider-Man. And, you know, that's an interesting sort of perspective is how do you not get pigeonholed into certain things? Like, how do you not get pigeonholed where you're only doing one thing? You become typecast almost like an actor. Like, you know, remember Jaleel White, who was Steve Urkel on Family Matters? Well, every role he was, you know, he's Steve Urkel. So it's kind of like...

When he went to go audition, they were like, hey, man, Steve Urkel's auditioning for this movie. He's not going to get it because he's Steve Urkel, but you know what I mean? It's stuff like that that I understand completely what you're saying, and that's why when I think you're making films...

I think it's always important to remember the genre. Like I said, again, going back to horror and starting off in horror, I think it's an excellent idea. I mean, let me give you a case in point too, Kurt, because I had a friend of mine. He actually made a zombie film as his first movie, and it actually was actually pretty well received. And he followed it up with a romantic comedy film.

And all the distributors that he met, made friends with and everything else came back to him and said, Hey, we hear you got another movie coming up and what will we tell us about it? And he told them the pitch. And he said, literally you could see their faces just turn. Like, so you're making a sappy romantic comedy now. Like what happened to the, to the horror stuff? And, and now he was like, well, I don't want to be pigeonholed. I want to make you a more, more professional film now. And basically it just, it tanked it.

It literally, he said it was like DOA. And, and then that's something that, you know, it's kind of like, well, if you do get pigeonholed and let's just play worst, worst case scenario here. If you do get pigeonholed where you can only make horror or only make zombie films, honestly, Kurt, I think that's, that's actually a fate. If I had that happen to me where I could only make one genre movies, I would be like, you know what? As long as I get to make movies for a living, you know what? I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

Oh, yeah. Don't get me wrong. If any producers are listening, no, I'm not rejecting the genre. Writing is really it for me, and I know for certain, having written the rom-com, for instance, is 30 Nights Stand.

And it's gotten good feedback. I've got two recognizable named actresses attached to it. So it gives me some vote of confidence that it's... The trick of it is it just needs to be really good. Like, in your friend scenario, that's sad. And it is an unfortunate common thing that, yeah, the industry kind of resists it. And I understand if you're going to, you know...

The fact of the matter is film business is a business. Primarily it's art and we love it for the art and that's why you want to really make sure it's something you're passionate about when you write a script or especially go into battle producing.

feature but you have to also realize from the beginning the onset it's it's a business first so you know if people buy a certain brand of soda they expect a certain brand of soda when they they purchase it again and very much you know when you're professional actor or screenwriter director you know agents and everything publicists they expect you to be a brand you know and I get that

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show. So it's more of a matter of doing it gracefully or when you make that transition, it is so impressive that people go, okay, you can do that. Maybe if they saw the trailer first in your friend's scenario, let's say the movie was really outstanding, had a really solid hook, and then you're like,

had great production value, it looked better than his first feature, just saying. If that was the case and they just saw the trailer first, then you know what? They'd be like, okay, it looks pretty good. It would be proof of concept in a way more than the concept of, oh, I'm doing something different. I can see the resistance, unfortunately, to that. It is a fine line.

Yeah, it is a fine line. And, you know, we were talking about your movie, Camgirl. And, you know, even before you shot Camgirl, you actually, obviously, because I took a peek at your IMDb, one thing I wanted to bring up, and I think this is pretty important because it actually speaks volumes to me too, Kurt, is I noticed that you have three director credits and there was a six-year span between the one short film and Camgirl. And here's the thing. I get that. I

Honestly, whenever I see a gap in anyone's resume, that's what happened. That happened to me. And honestly, I understand things happen. You know what I mean? It's tough to get stuff going because everything in this business is time and money. It takes a lot of money to even get up to bat. I always say it's like this, Kurt. It's like playing a game of home run derby.

It takes so much practice and effort just to get up to the plate. And even if you're at the plate, that's just like making a project and you have one shot to hit this ball out of the park.

And you know what I mean? And it just, it takes so much, you know, training and stuff like that. And everything you do up until that point, till you get to that plate is just, it's just practice. It's just refining your skills or finding a technique, finding your voice. You know what I mean? Finding your, your network. And then when you finally get up to that plate, you put that all into, into, into use. So, you know, before you did cam girl, you know, what was, you know, what were some of the other projects that you were working on? Uh, you know, that actually you sort of prepared you to make cam girl.

Well, that's an interesting point. I never really actually studied the, Oh, it's been like, what did you say? Six years in between each thing or whatever. It's like, Oh my gosh. Okay. Um, now I think about it in that depth. I mean, it's more, uh, first of all, I highly recommend making shorts first, um, because that is a proving ground. You just, you, you,

for one, you can call yourself a director before you actually take the big leap to direct a feature. Because let me tell you, it is different. It is unlike anything. When somebody does that for the first time, directs a feature film, like, I'm not talking about, you know, doing it just on the weekends over the course of,

of six months or whatever. We did it, I took a full month off of work. I was happy to do it at the time. I had a day job I wasn't too thrilled about. And yeah, it was just five days a week, weekends off.

long days, not irresponsibly long days, but no, just really non-stop work. And it's just by the end of it, you are exhausted. I mean, it's the most fulfilling thing. At the same time, it is the endurance test. So no, I highly recommend doing shorts first. In fact, that first short, which was you might have seen then, credited was Power Grab, which is actually animated short, which I have a background in that. I got a

a bachelor's from University of Central Florida in computer animation. So that, I'm glad that I have that backing because it is very much like filmmaking. What drew me to it is it's filmmaking without boundaries. Like I would see how the visual effects was used in a movie like Fight Club, for instance, and how it just broke barriers. You can do things with a camera that a physical camera just can't do. And I just really kind of embraced that, was taken by it.

So the thing that's important to note about that is, okay, so Power Grab came first. It was just a minute short. It played a festival or two, which was an amazing, you know, eco-boost, you know, confidence builder. And it got me an IMDb. So that's the thing. It's what is the different steps. You want to be an IMDb. Then you want to actually just prove more work in whatever area.

avenue you're trying to get into, including what genre it is. The second short I did actually was because the writer who also produced it said, I wrote this because honestly he was interested and ended up working with me on Camgirl. But in the onset of that, as I was working on that, trying to get it financed, he said, oh yeah, no, I've got this short. Would you like to direct it? I'll give you X amount of dollars to go ahead and

produce it and direct it. It was just a one day shoot and it was great. So it was like, in a way, my first paying job, you could say, you know, it was somebody was saying, yes, you know, I'll be your champion for this moment and give you X amount of dollars. I believe in your ability to direct this. And it was directed and, you know,

So that's another step. So it's just a matter of different steps along the way. And if it takes, you know, three years or whatever in between, so be it. I certainly wouldn't, I don't regret it at all because it took, from the time I wrote the first solid draft of Camgirl, that was 2009.

So then it took a solid two years trying to get the financing. But the whole time, I was working on casting. I built the website to use that as a sales tool. I built a lookbook. I formed the company. You know, you got to have an LLC or whatever, some business entity. You just have to do everything. You have to just do the work because everybody's got a script.

and everybody's got a first script. It's important to note that, and this is important because this explains also the time cap, is Camgirl was my third feature-length screenplay. The first screenplay I wrote, I actually co-wrote with Curtis Norton, who ended up becoming my good friend and editor of Camgirl. That got some recognition in contests, screenplay competitions. Blue Cat, the semifinalist in Blue Cat, was a...

Same kind of thing. Like some of the finalists in the creative screenwriting magazine that shows you how long ago it was or whatever. But I remember, I remember. Oh, man. Yeah, it was. It was good. It was right up there with like script mag. Yeah. And all of a sudden I remember when it, when it just kind of faded away and I was like, Oh damn. Um, because I remember they had a really good, I still have the, the, the issue. It had Tarantino's death proof on the cover and,

And it was like an interview with him inside. And just really, they had a previous issue with him too. It was a really good interview about his writing process. But I'm sorry to get off topic, Kurt. But yeah, I know exactly what you mean. And you're just about, you know,

placing those competitions but actually i want to hear more about so you submitted the the script of camgirl to blue cat and actually placed you said oh no that was the first no so sorry so that was tragic kingdom first screenplay i ever wrote which is co-wrote i haven't really written co-written anything since that much uh unless it's a writing for hire job which happened recently but um

So that Tragic Kingdom is the one that we entered in contests and stuff because at the beginning, that's what you need to do. At that time, I really had no connections at all. So I highly recommend that. Enter the main competitions. Just like film festivals, start with the main ones, the contests.

big break, you know, competition I think is still going on. Obviously the nickel fellowship, uh, Sundance labs, things like that. Go for the majors. Cause that's really what you want. You want something that really is a proving ground cause you're going against the best, the best. If you can get some kind of nod from those, you're onto something. Um, and if not write the next one, I've heard Jim wools say, uh, that no, you need to, my advice to screenwriters starting out is write that first script and then put it in a drawer and

and then write the second script. And then when you're done writing that second script, yeah, you can go back and look at the first script and rewrite it and whatever and see if there's something there. But I'm telling you, and I've seen it to be proof in my own work, is you get better with each time. And I think far too many people write that first script, they tell all their friends about it for about 15 years, it never gets produced, and they put all their eggs in that unfulfilling basket. And it's sad, but I understand...

why that could happen because it is such a sense of accomplishment. It's like, oh, look what I did. And it is amazing, but you got to keep pushing forward. I think a lot of professional screenwriters, their first script does not get produced.

more often than not. And I think most of them will tell you, oh, thank God it didn't get produced because, you know, I wouldn't be, you know, talking with you right now. So or whatever it is. So it's, you know, I wouldn't have a career. And, you know, that there's something to that. I mean, people get better with practice and the same goes for your craft as a screenwriter, director, actor, what have you. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Yeah, you know, and that's so true. And I wanted to actually ask, you know, we kind of touched upon this before. As we talk about writing screenplays, you know, how did you, because you were working the 9 to 5 you mentioned when you were doing the short films, you know, what were some of the things that you did? Because, I mean, when you got home from the 9 to 5, did you have a whole process in place like, hey, listen, I'm going to get home at 5.

I'm going to maybe eat some dinner and then from seven to eight, I'm just going to write for an hour. Did you have like a, like a set schedule like that? The way I, I tend to work is I outline thoroughly and that's very kind of at my own time. Uh, I do a lot of work at night. Um,

At the time when I worked the day job, I would get off work at 11 p.m. and, yeah, I'd be up to, like, 5 a.m. or whatever writing, you know, or doing other things and then writing and then, you know, going to sleep, waking up at noon and starting all over again with the day job, you know. I would thoroughly outline first. So in the case of Camgirl, for instance, I spent about a year outlining and researching, you know,

And I did the whole Lawrence Kasdan method, you know, with the note cards and the bulletin board. I highly recommend people at least trying that. Because it's freeform, it's not something you're pigeonholed to. You know, it's just putting down the thoughts so you don't forget it. So you end up with a big stack of cards and you write down anything from lines of dialogue to you definitely at least need a sentence describing what a scene's about.

And then visual cues, symbolism, metaphor, any kind of thing that is going to be key components to any scene. And then you kind of just find a home for it on the bulletin board. So anyway, I did that. I even did things like read...

A great book by, a memoir by Diablo Cody, famous screenwriter Diablo Cody who wrote Juno and Young Adult. Before that she was actually a blogger about her experiences as being a stripper and it was called Candy Girl. It was a phenomenal read. I recommend that. You can definitely see early on that first bit of work of hers that got published, this woman has talent.

So that was a great way in to that world because I'm a guy and I don't know anything about cam girl stuff. So in all honesty, I mean, I stumbled upon the idea and knew that's what I need to write. But OK, now I really have to do it justice and try to get in the mindset. So, yeah, a year of that, a year of researching, outlining.

And then, and I've done this with Camgirl for the first time, and I've done it with many screenplays ever since, is once I'm ready, I start. And then I am fully disciplined, and I try to write the first draft as quick as possible. In the case of Camgirl, I wrote it in 14 days. So 89 pages, it ended up being a little longer than that, but that first draft, 89 pages in 14 days. And it was one of the greatest experiences I've ever had. It was kind of cathartic.

It just flew out of me like therapy, you know. And I highly recommend it because for me,

The energy and the kind of excitement that you have for it ends up on the page. It's just a matter of getting it all on the page and just rework it later. I mean, that first draft, no, is not something I ended up showing to anybody because it was littered with typos and sentences. And I'm like, wait a minute, what was it? Okay, yeah, added this word, that word, you know. But that's great. That's how...

It just ends up becoming a flourish of the story. So I've definitely been doing that ever since. So yeah, just really doing the work beforehand so I know no matter what I have this story, I really have a solid beginning, middle, and end. I know what it's all about. I know what the character motivations are. I know that it's

has a solid through line. I know what the theme is, you know, it's not something that's overt, but it's all there and let's get started. And I just get it done. And that's when I, you know, when those 14 days, yeah, it was very disciplined from this time to that time, nonstop while I'm not working. In fact, in that 14 days, I ended up calling off the day job two

two days. So I had a long weekend and it was like one of the most, you know, happy weekends I've had, you know? So no, it was very much disciplined from that regard. So when you took those days off work and you were just writing, did you just turn your phone off too? At the same time, did you just basically say, I don't want to be bothered by anybody and just shut yourself up in your bedroom and just, you know, notebook in hand and pen or laptop, whatever you had. So is that what you did? Just eliminate all those distractions?

Yeah, and I didn't really have a reason to go on the internet because it was all written there. It was all there in the notes. It was all there at my disposal with the rare exception of like, oh, I want to reference this weird thing or whatever, you know, then I'd have to look up the word or something like that and things like that, you know, if it's some kind of like reference to the real world. But no, other than that, no internet, no, you know, no phone, no, you know.

Other than, like, maybe I tend to, like, listen to music, like classical music or commentary while I'm writing, you know, something like that just to, you know, it's like one of those fidget spinners in a way for my head, you know. It just keeps me focused, you know. But other than that, no, there was no distractions or what people would call distractions. Because, you know, that's something I've noticed, too.

with just writing screenplays and even when you come home from a day job and this is from a lot of different people who've been on the podcast and my own experiences is that some days when you come home you're either A. too tired I had a friend of mine who was an AV guy and

And even on Facebook, he would say, my God, I don't have enough energy when I get home to even do anything. I just want to crash in front of the TV and pop open a beer and just start zoning out in front of the TV or whatever. And then other friends would say they come home and it's just they have a wife, they have kids, stuff like that. And it's just...

You know, it was always one thing after another. And then by the time they got some alone time, it was like 10, 11 o'clock at night. And they have to be up at 6 o'clock the next morning. So there wasn't a lot of time to actually sort of write this out. Just hearing little... I hate to use the word hacks. But I guess I should probably use the word hacks. So to sort of hack the process...

They would do stuff like writing wherever they can. On the lunch break at work, they take their phone out and start writing on that. They would take their phone and record audio as they're driving to work, writing little notes in the shower using Aqua Notes, which is something I've actually picked up too, by the way. Seriously, $8 on Amazon. You can actually write in the shower. It comes with a pencil, waterproof pad, everything. It's amazing. But stuff like that, that way you can sort of...

at least get some writing done and you're not sort of just keep putting it off if you know what I mean

Yeah, whatever you're going to do. That's what, I mean, I've heard other people say, you know, look at it this way. If all you do is write a page a day, you know, by the end of the year, you'll have, you know, two screenplays done or whatever, you know, whatever it is. If you devote just one hour a day or three hours a week, you know, however it breaks down, I mean, you don't need to be that formulaic with it. If it helps you, then by all means, everybody's process is their own.

But no, it's, it's a matter of just finding the time and yeah, we have the, it's the best time in a way to be a filmmaker or writer. Cause yeah, you do have these apps, you do have, you know, this technology that's easily affordable. Um, so, but at the same time, it's just the most crowded, uh, time to ever try to break in. So you really have to have that hook. You have to have that high concept that's going to get out there. Um,

And you've got to just put in the time, you know? And that's so true. You have to do put in the time. Actually, the hardest part of the process, somebody once told me, Kurt, is actually getting started. And once you can get that sort of pushing that stone up the hill like Sisyphus, you can keep pushing it up there. But the hardest part is actually starting. So let's talk about starting Camgirl. So you have the script written.

Where does it finally come together? Where you have the script and you say to yourself, you know what, this is the time, everything sort of came together. So how did you go about finding the right time to do this and starting to cast this project?

so was it was it finally did you finally you know maybe get the right amount of money did you finally maybe find the right actress you finally maybe find the right location so what sort of came together for you at the right time for you to make came cam girl last year well that's an interesting way to okay this is a very good question basically

What happened was I just, what I was alluding to earlier is I did all I could pre-production first. I'd be casting. I'd be doing all I can, hoping that the financing will eventually come. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

and I just knew in the back of my head if I didn't get the money by now, I would have found a way to, you know, clerk style, El Mariachi style, following by Christopher Nolan style, you know, get it made on my own resources, my own, you know, by any way I could. Thankfully, I didn't have to do that because...

After several years of doing all that, I would, in the process of casting, everywhere online on those usual listing boards, the Craigslist, the Mandys, all that stuff.

I would put the casting notices, you know, with the web's link to the website. Like I said, you know, it was kind of like a sales tool. I'd kind of list what the casting was for and the very head of it all, it had the log line. It was very much an intentional way to pitch what the script was. And in doing so, I actually had a producer contact me, emailed me out of the blue and said they'd like to read the script.

And that was Jay Aubrey. He ended up becoming one of the two executive producers of Camgirl. Within two weeks, he said he loved the script, wanted to send it to another friend of his. And it was a business partner that he's worked with, Odorico Mendez. And he was the other executive producer. And between the two of them, they got it financed. And it all quickly happened after that. Immediately after that, money was, you know,

and we just looked forward to have a production date and everything was, by that time, the ship was pretty well steered in the right direction. So because I used all that time, because I used that time to be prepared, I had storyboards, I had shot lists, I had...

promotional stills you know they didn't end up becoming promotional stills we used for the final feature but it was a sales tool you need that kind of stuff for your lookbook and pitch documents and that just helps you understand the world and the look you know what you're going for so no use that time to your advantage I wouldn't if you know this is your first shot if this is really going to be your resume film don't rush into it is what I'd suggest because that's

You only got the one, um, in a way. I mean, if it's really so bad that it just kind of dies at the vine, you can take it off IMDB or something or try to, but, um, for the most part, no, you really want to, don't want to rush into that first, uh, first break you get, treat it like your resume. Cause, uh,

That's usually what happens with these things. Yeah. You mentioned dying on the vine. I've heard that so many times. Projects, the money's there, they're about to shoot, and then everything just falls apart. And it's like, well, we did everything right, and it still fell apart. I want to get back to talking about Camgirl, by the way, in one second. I just want to tell you a little anecdote, Kurt. I once had a friend of mine, and he wrote a script that he was hoping to pitch to people.

and he wrote it, and I read it, and it wasn't anything crazy, meaning there was no real set pieces that were going to be expensive, nothing that I could think of that was going to be outrageous. And he said, well, if I can't get it produced by somebody, I'm going to produce it myself, even if I have to shoot it in my backyard. And I said, see, that's the spirit. I said, that's what you've got to have. And he said, thank you, Dave, and...

Well, he went off. Nobody wanted to produce it. So he said he was going to shoot in his own backyard. And I said, I'm always for it. I said, you should always follow your dream. And if it's a project you want to make, don't let anybody tell you no. Make your project. Well, he came back to me. And Kurt, he told me, all right, I'm going to need half a million dollars to shoot this thing. And I said, what?

It's four guys in a freaking living room in a house. I said, why the hell do you need half a million dollars? And I said, there's no explosions. There's no blood. There's no gunshots. There's no special effects. I said, what the hell are you using $400,000 or $500,000 for? It needs to be shot on IMAX, Dave. I mean, that's why.

Well, it's funny because he actually got a director of cinematography that came with a package. It was like a red X at the time, I think, or whatever it was at the time, or a red dragon. And he was like, okay, we'll shoot it on that. But I was like, how much money is this guy charging you? Like, where the hell is this $500,000? And then he was like, well, maybe if I could get this actor in it. I said, dude, I said, it's four guys in a living room. Unless, you know, you're best friends with, I don't know, um...

I don't know, Shia LaBeouf or something. I said, it's not, you know, they're not going to be able to pull all these guys together. I said, you know, he wanted to have this. So finally, I said, dude, you could shoot this over the weekend, bit by bit. And then I said, for literally probably two, three hundred bucks a day, a little more if you get a professional director of cinematography like the one he had selected with the red kit. And I said, it wouldn't cost you anywhere near this. And then you could just put it online for free and have people just, you know, check it out. Because after all, this isn't really...

you know, this is more like a passion project and not a commercially viable product. And honestly, if you're gonna, like we were talking about before, if you know the difference between the two,

And I think that's a, you have to know the difference between the two. If one's a commercially viable product, uh, you know, something like, you know, something like no living dead, something like cam girl, that's going to have an audience. It's going to have a niche. That's going to have a selling point. It's going to have, uh, you know, a unique selling position, AKA unfair advantage, uh,

versus something that, hey, look, I just want to shoot a film because if I don't shoot it now or if I don't shoot it in a couple months or a year or whatever, I'm probably never going to shoot one because I'm going to always be spinning my wheels and talking about shooting a film. You know what I mean? Absolutely. And I think there's two different elements to that. One is casting. And as far as pre-production is concerned, casting is probably...

90% of the game. I've heard the expression go, you know, like the director's job or, you know, as far as shepherding a production is casting is 90% of it because if you're not with the actors, if you don't believe the acting, you're not going to believe anything, no matter how good the composer is, no matter how good your DP is, no matter how good the writing is.

And we felt very fortunate and I'm glad that we took our time, especially in finding all of our cast, but especially the two leads, Erin Nicole Klein as Jessica. The lead was just outstanding. She was local talent. Everybody.

on Camgirl was a local cast and crew at the time. Half of them have since moved to either California or Georgia. But anyway, Joe Coffey, the male lead, I think was phenomenal. And he's gone on to, both of them have gone on to great things. So no, we felt I couldn't have done it without those people. And I'm glad I took the time in casting to get people

people I knew that could really just knock it out of the park. They're not names as far as

Hollywood's concerned, but it has to just stand out as good acting. As long as it stands out as good acting, yeah, it's going to be really hard to get Sandra Bullock or Steve Buscemi in your four people in a room movie. I mean, if you have no experience or connections, I mean, you have to be realistic. At the same time, you really need to realize that, okay, how can I get the best talent I can find for this? Because that is really crucial. I've seen far too many

movies, low budget movies that is just like, even if it's just one of the lead actors or actresses that just fall short, it just really kind of takes the air out of the tires of the whole project. Yeah, it's so true. And, you know, one of the other things we see, and that's the other thing we're talking about with all the actors, once the actors keep going on and different people in the project move on,

you know things that I've worked on I you know I hear about them moving out to LA I met these two girls on a film set they were like oh maybe we're gonna get into film we don't know and I said I you know the brother some people have this romantic idea of filmmaking and they get in there for a day Kurt and they go running away screaming like they think it's gonna be a fairy tale like oh my god you know holy shit

shit. So, so they, but, but they ended up both of them moving to LA and I was like, Hey, listen, you know, more power to you. If you can do that, more power to you. And, uh, I don't, I haven't heard from him since, but I'm not sure, you know, but, um, you know, I have so many friends who've moved out to LA and honestly, let's be honest here, Kurt, I'm probably going to move out there at some point. I don't know when, um, probably when I get, you

you know, a little more things under my belt. Because I know if I go out there, I will probably end up, you know, living in the gutter. But I want to make sure, you know, I have something to show for all this years I'm putting into it. But, you know, that's why I always say your network is your net worth. And honestly, when all these people go to these networking parties and everything else, you know, you never know who you're going to bump into. That's why you should really...

you should only burn a bridge if you're absolutely certain you don't need to cross that again. Something like that old saying goes, it's something like you can burn a bridge if you never have to cross it twice. And that's the thing, and they go into other projects and it kind of ties in with what I'm trying to get at here. I know there are screenwriters and producers and actually more and more screenwriters who heard you say that about the two producers who found your script and they're probably like, I can't believe Dave didn't talk about that more.

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show. Damn it! So I want to just tie in. We were talking about networking and all the actors from Cam going in different directions and in commercials.

So, and tying with your network is your net worth. So tying back then, tying into that, when those two producers found you, that one producer found you just randomly, did he just really, was he just looking for on those boards just for like a budding filmmaker or a budding screenwriter or something like that just to sort of see what's out there? Yeah, he was, we're talking about Jay Aubrey here. Yeah, he actually has...

long history, decades of working. He actually worked with Roger Corman. His father was a very prominent filmmaker in the film industry. So no, he was looking for somebody to be the next champion for. And he just kind of saw my post and sent the email and the rest was kind of a

a good history for me so but yeah it was a very interesting story would that happen if i tried to do it all over again today who knows i'm sure that stuff is a little different but no it's free advertising it just goes to show you any way you can get uh your concept out there once it's copywritten and ready to go wait for that at least but yeah once it's done do everything you can to get it out there using these resources you have um because i know we've always always heard um

The common saying as far as production goes, you can make it good, fast, cheap, two out of the three. I'd like to introduce one that I live by, a totally different trifecta for more for low budget filmmakers to consider, is you have time, money, and resources.

So you can have two of those three things are, you know, what you have to really kind of latch on to. In the case of Camgirl, we had the resources and we had time, to be honest. I mean, I'm glad that we had enough money to get it done and we paid people, you know.

But it was really more a matter of taking all that time that I had, the years and years, to really maximize the resources. And you'd look at movies like Clerks and Following, et cetera, where they wrote the script based on what they even had available as far as locations and everything. So to some degree, I definitely did that. I mean, it's easy to find a house or condo. So people in your cast and crew, especially when they're paid, they're willing to maybe work with you on something like that.

you know, I've got this place or my friend's place or whatever. So no, it's a matter of that. I definitely look at it, especially if it's a low budget film. You got your time, money and resources. How are you going to utilize two of those three?

Yeah.

And they're talking about like, all right, I'm going to have this period piece and I'm going to, you know, we're going to be back in the 1600s. You're like, what? A feature length film? What? I mean, and you saw that thing I posted on Instagram recently that I took from Grilla producer, a.k.a. Calvin, you know, where it's like you're trying to explain to people how your music video is not going to cost 500 bucks. You know what I mean? It's just like it's just too much is involved with this.

to sort of just say, oh yeah, we can get by with 100 bucks or whatever. And I don't know why I even just thought of this, but I want to bring this up too. I actually had a friend of mine who did an online radio show before that was even a thing.

And I haven't talked to this guy in years, but he had it as a... And then what happened was he would record it. It was an online radio show. You could listen to it and you could also watch it because they had cameras in the room. Kind of like Camgirl, by the way. And what happens is you could also listen to it later on as a podcast. I mean, this is before everyone was doing it, you know? And he would...

try to act like he could charge his exorbitant rates when nobody was watching. He had two viewers one night, one of which was me, and he was talking about, hey, I should charge $1,000 for an ad space here. It's like, what the hell are you talking about? Where do you get this stuff

from but it's sort of like you know I think some people have expectations and then when their expectations doesn't meet reality you know you they have to change their perception because otherwise they're just gonna just be miserable about everything there's you know what I mean they're always gonna be those people who are just saying like oh my god if only I could find your $10,000 or $20,000 and

I don't know, maybe they could change the movie and shoot it a little differently. You know, and one of the things that you mentioned too is when the crew and the cast see you, meaning like you as the director and writer and producer, have this, you have a great attitude, you're willing to work hard, and

The thing is, and this is true with pretty much any project I've ever been on, if the producer, director, writer, whoever is leading the ship, sometimes like you and me, Kurt, we wear all three hats. If you don't care about the project more than everybody else, people can sense that.

And if they sense that their, their, their willingness and their, their willingness to, to sort of, you know, go that extra mile diminishes by like rapidly by, by the day. You know what I mean?

Absolutely. And not only that, to kind of expand on what you were talking about earlier about people, where are you getting these numbers from? You should charge this and that. I think it's this crowdfunding mentality where it's like a plague. People think, oh, just because Spike Lee could do it. Yeah, it's Spike Lee. It's like he got over a million dollars because it's – but it's a matter of –

with crowdfunding, it's about the rewards. It's not a matter of what you're taking, but, you know, there's this kind of me first mentality that filmmakers need to kind of get away from if they really want to get a start. I have the opposite philosophy. It's about, you know, giving first. I mean, obviously within reason, if it's, you know, one-sided with a certain, you know, then you can stop, you know, on that avenue. But,

it's giving first and you'd be amazed how many other people eventually down the road, oh, you know, I do have this concept. How about you write the screenplay? I'll pay you or whatever. Or I've got this one producer. He'd be really interested in this script that you told me about a year ago. Like you'd be amazed how often that is how it works. And that is a great way of networking is what are you doing for this person first? That's just like the, the,

agent-client relationship. It's a symbiotic thing. It's like...

what are you doing for the agent? That's why they want to know what your brand is. They already want you to have some kind of reputation. Like you have a reason for them to want you. Like you've already put in the time, you've got studios interested in whatever script or project it is or YouTube video you made, et cetera. So no, it's very much, I look at networking that way. It's like, it's a giving first thing and seeing what comes in, what goes around, comes around to some degree. Yeah.

Yes. That is my philosophy in networking as well. I always extend out, hey, this is why I think we should talk or we should meet. And this podcast has been an extension of that. I've always been one of my strongest skills, Kurt. Some people just have these skills that they've accumulated and sort of

ends up becoming a strength and one of them has been networking and for me and one of the things that i've learned is that you know you have to sort of offer up some value and if it's not reciprocated because which you know let's just be honest sometimes in the film industry it's not reciprocated so you just have you just have to sort of let it go and just be like all right that's their karma if they don't want to reciprocate that that's fine um but uh

You know, next time I'm not going to, you know, it's, you know, next time I don't know if I'm going to actually be so willing to help them out. And that's why I always tell people in this industry, you have to have a good attitude. Honestly, Kurt, I've worked on some of these film sets, man, and it has just been incredible.

egomaniacs out of the gate and I'm like you guys haven't done anything how the hell you know we're making a small indie film here that you know is literally all free like everything's free like we have the location for free everyone's working for free the cast is working for free and I'm like you know we're shooting this with like a potato and I'm like and you know everyone's like oh this is gonna be a YouTube hit we're gonna have a million hits

You know, in retrospect, I've looked at that. I've looked at that. And I realize you do have to have that attitude that it is going to lead to something. But I think as we go back to expectations, hey, it's going to be a million hits on YouTube. The reality of it is if it doesn't hit that, hey, you know what? You know, at least we tried. You know, it shouldn't be this like...

blinded fervor, if you know what I mean, that sort of leads a lot of people astray. Because, I mean, you've been on those movies, Kurt, where people... You work on a project, and some people have that attitude where they're like, hey, this is the big thing that's going to win Sundance. We're all going to be multi-millionaires living in mansions in Bel-Air, and it's all going to be because of this film. And I honestly...

I think it's a double-edged sword type of attitude. You want people to be positive, but you also don't want people to lose grasp of reality, if you know what I mean. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show.

It's like that movie, this is a very obscure reference, mind you, so pardon, but it's like that movie The Great White Hype. It's all this, you build this expectations, expectations, and it kind of builds upon itself, and then you better deliver, and then it's like the biggest letdown in the world when it doesn't, although the movie did the opposite, but anyway, that was kind of the joke of it. It turned on its head.

But it's just about that. You don't really-- what I was saying earlier, especially if it's a smaller project and really, especially if it's people volunteering their time, one, you better be the nicest to them, super nice to them, and thank them for their work and let them know it's appreciated. Because no, I mean, if you're able to get people to work for you for free and it comes out,

watchable, that's amazing. That's a miracle in itself. It's already a miracle producing a feature or whatever it is, a short. So no, it's really hard to get quality work and people with experience to do quality work for free. I mean, I have different philosophies about

people that do that and I've still done work for free, but I'm eventually going to really just stop doing that unless it's a very close friend or something. Anyway, very much. You got to just, it's about demeanor. You want to be respectful to people. Um, because again, that it goes maybe a year later when they remember working with you, if you were act like that, they probably don't want to work with you again. Or, um,

Especially when you don't live up to the hype, which is very possible when it's this crowded of an industry. It really kind of looks bad. It should be about, this is a great story to tell. I'm glad you're all here to help tell it with me. Let's go to work. Action. Yes, yes. So it starts with that because, like I said, Camryl took well over from start to finish from the first screenplay to actual now and distribution.

It's taken four years, well over four years, we consider, you know, the development process, you know, the year, you know, five years. So it's, you have to really want to tell a story and really have, you know, your heart behind it because you got to really get through all that.

I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to take that long, but it could at very least it should take, you know, post-production everything. If you don't have a lot of money at your disposal, yeah, it'll take years before you get from A to B on that. Yeah. And that's sort of that perseverance. You got to keep sort of punching it through. And, um,

You know, that sort of goes back to what I was talking about with my friend of mine, where it's like, you know, if you want to make it in your own backyard, hey, more Paratea. It's kind of like that film Buried. You know, they were going to actually shoot that in somebody's backyard because, hey, you know what? They could do it. And this is before, you know, they had a film crew, obviously, and everything. But they were saying like, hey, I wrote this movie about a guy in a coffin. I could shoot this in my backyard.

It doesn't have to be anything, you know what I mean? So if you haven't seen Buried, by the way, everyone listening, fantastic movie. One location, you know, and it's really, really interesting how they shot that. But, you know, Kurt, just to get back to Camgirl, I wanted to actually mention, you know, what was some of the, you know,

What was some of the... Maybe the toughest obstacle you had to overcome in the actual shooting of Camgirl? Is there anything unexpected that may have happened on set that sort of threw everything into a disarray or anything that sort of happened that sort of put a wrench in the works? Well, no matter how prepared you get, you'll still have things that just really are like, what the bleep, you know? A few examples of that. I had...

That main location that we had where all the action happens, well, first, very quickly, the log line. It's a Camgirls suspense film. It's available everywhere, Amazon, DVD. It's about Jessica, a single mother who works as a webcam stripper who is pushed to her limit when held hostage by an unknown gunman.

Basically, so it's mostly in this one location where the house where that conflict takes place, where that hostage situation takes place. And it's very much over the phone, kind of in the vein of – it was a combination of phone booth and a film I really love called Hard Candy. Anyway, so that main location, we actually –

leased it out for that month and when we leased it, it was completely empty. So we dressed that place from top to bottom. It was all just carpets and walls. So when we moved in, we only had about two days to prep everything, get it going, have the power set up, have the water set up because we needed all that stuff. The working shower, etc. Sinks, everything.

So, once we finally got it all up and running, the first day of production, we needed the wardrobe clean, so I wanted to wash the main...

wardrobe that we see, the kind of pajamas, the iconic stuff for the character. So I quickly wash it just so it's not wrinkled and everything and come to find out the washer that was left in there and had other tenants and everything used or whatever prior to that, it would just fill it up and that's all it would do. It just filled up with water and just was like a moat.

So I found out hours later, what the heck? And now the actresses showed up, ready to go. You know, everything's set up and this is the clothes, you know, I realized, you know, we're about to start in a little bit and now we've got this soaking wet clothes and what am I going to do now? The washer doesn't work. So basically I quickly, um,

threw it out on basically on the inside the car outside. It was a hot summer day in Florida. So I put it out in the backseat of my car. So the sun was beaming in there and I took one of our reflectors and reflected sun going into the back of this car. The DP shows up at that time from he just parks and passes my car. He's like, what is all this stuff doing?

I had to explain, yeah, I had to dry this stuff somehow because the dryer's not working, this washer doesn't work, so it just left the soapy water collecting on our wardrobe that we're going to need in an hour. So it's just like, that's one thing. Another thing, we had a location fall out at the last minute and I ended up having to

talk them into reminding them, "Okay, fine. I'm giving you how much money? I'll give you a little more. Can we film tomorrow? Okay, fine." So we had a cover set at main location for that day. I had to immediately call everybody

and reschedule actors that were needed that day for a different day and bring in the core actors to the main location and be okay we'll film this scene in that scene so that became a short day but we still kept the momentum we got something done so that in a way was our cover set that kind of thing is more often like if you're doing exteriors you definitely want to have uh

that early in the schedule. So they're able to utilize cover sets, um, if it's really bad weather or what have you. Um, but in that case, it was because of location fell out. So you just don't know, you need to be prepared for anything. Um, and that's also why you need to be fully prepared as much as possible before you start, because you're going to still have fires to put out. Yeah. You are always going to have fires to put out. That's something I, I, uh, I found and it's, it's,

A lot of it has been, in my experience, been like people dropping out, like key crew members, and I have to kind of fill those roles myself.

That's been a big fire that I've noticed a lot. And, you know, it's sort of like, hey, your location manager dropped out. OK, now you're you know, now the the you're your associate producer dropped out. OK, and now you know, now this guy dropped out. OK, now, you know, the caterer on the this and that. And I'm also, you know, the director and I wrote the freaking thing. And it's just, you know, it's just one thing after another.

and you're just trying to juggle what you are at that point in time. And it's just trying to sort of get through it, so to speak. But it's so good. I actually was going to ask you, too. You just answered that question. It was about how did you actually film this movie? And if you actually just rented out one location, which is, you just answered that.

because I've actually seen other people do that too, where they've actually just rented a house for maybe a month or so. I know as odd as this is going to sound, the movie that I just recently watched that made me think of that was D.B. Cooper vs. Bigfoot.

And basically they rented a house for like a month and shot the whole film in there. By the way, do not watch DB Cooper versus Bigfoot. It was terrible. So Kurt, do not actually try to find that movie. It was god awful. But it just made me think of, hey, they rented a house for a month.

But, you know, I actually liked Camgirl. You know, I thought it was a really cool idea. It reminded me of Phone Booth. You mentioned you said Hard Candy. It reminded me of Phone Booth or even Devil more so than Hard Candy. Yeah, it was a combination of both. I thought I said both, Phone Booth and Hard Candy. Oh, I'm sorry. I missed. Sorry about that. Sorry. I missed that. Sorry. I don't know. I'm thinking. I said, well, I don't know. I'm going to have to go back. Let's go to the videotape. Let's get the instant replay.

But no, I'm pretty sure. I mean, you're absolutely right. And that definitely was both were, you know, I mean, why I said hard candy is the whole dynamic between the male and female character. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. You know, that's kind of where I was going, I guess, with that one. Now it's very contained and very adversarial that way and kind of.

breaks down the cliches that you might have about the genders there. So that's kind of where I was. But definitely I can see phone booth, absolutely. That was a definite inspiration. Really all these. I mean, you mentioned...

I was so wanting to mention when you brought it up with Chris Barling's Buried. I thought that was very tactful, very good. People should look at that. They should also look at his other work, ATM. It's another very contained film. And I thought that was great. In fact, I think that was better than Buried. It was definitely because it had bigger scope because it was three people in a small contained space. But it

It just goes to show you that he became the contained thriller guy, you know, and he embraced it. I think it is really interesting to know that, yes, he wrote that script intending to, no matter what, if he had to, make it himself. And there was this other movie called Coffin, which is a lesser scene, and it's okay, but it's just very low budget and just isn't...

what Buried is. Then again, it doesn't have Ryan Reynolds inside the coffin. Also, what's really fascinating is I was amazed to find out that Buried was shot in 21 days. It's like, it's one guy in a coffin the whole time and it was shot in 21 days? Wow, they really, you know, it goes to show you they took their time. They could have probably done that in less.

There's another movie called Break, which is one actor, Stephen Dorff, I believe, he's inside a trunk of a car. He's kind of held hostage. There's this terrorism type plot and he's held hostage inside of a trunk. And it's just like, there's this ticking clock and each time it triggers something else. It ratchets up the suspense, what's going to happen to him. Because they're wanting him to do something.

the people that are driving or holding them hostage. I mean, just look at these kind of movies, realize, okay, how can I make a story like this that I really feel passionate about, that is unique, that takes advantage of the same kind of things that these movies do, is what I'd suggest if you're trying to break in. Because it's...

it's about budget, you know, you need to get that first credit. That's the thing. I'm very appreciative that I have, you know, my first credit as a writer director, I've got, you know, first credit for features now on visual effects and things like that. So I can really, until you, it's like a plumber. If you're going to need some plumbing work done, are you going to just have your buddy say, Oh yeah, I know somebody down the street. Has he done anything before? No, he's, he's, he works as a, you know, a,

accountant, but he likes to do plumbing on the side. Are you going to bring that person in to work on the pipes? Are you going to call somebody in that your friend said, oh no, I did an amazing job. He's been doing it for years. If you don't trust somebody with your pipe, you don't trust somebody with your screenplay. Who's going to give you your $800,000 right off the bat? Why would they decide to do that? Why would they take that risk? You've got to look at it from that way. It's very much

Realizing you have to start somewhere and writing something that's very marketable that you still feel great about telling that's within a budget is a great avenue.

Yeah, it sort of goes back to what we're talking about too with the whole, you know, trying to make a time travel movie for like, you know, 50 bucks or whatever the hell it was or, you know, let's make a period piece movie for 5,000. But I mean, you can look at a movie like Primer. That's the thing. A brilliant movie like Primer, for instance, is super low budget and it's sci-fi. Like that is, it was so unique and high concept and it was amazing.

started from the ground up in a way that would work, you know, for a budget, you know, and that's why it got the attention. That's why it was a hit at Sundance, you know.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it was very internal, very psychological. And it was, you know, for those of you who haven't seen Primer, it was a time travel movie that was made for like 7,000 bucks. And basically it's about a guy who in his garage makes a time machine and he keeps going back and forth. And the movie too, where it's like, you know, you really have to pay attention. And I hate using that phrase. You really have to pay attention to this movie, Kurt. Like, you know,

Like you should be on your phone, you know what I mean? But the fact is, you know, it goes, it jumps back and forth a lot. It jumps forward, jumps backwards, and you kind of have to sort of piece this together. It's really, really cool. And yeah, exactly. You know, it depends upon what you do with it. There's an article I actually just tweeted out, not too, about maybe yesterday, where it was the difference between

Yes.

So, you know, and that's sort of where we're sort of, you know, going with, you know, don't really focus on gear a lot. Honestly, and because honestly, Kurt, I mean, I'm sure when you were filming Camgirl, you know, you probably...

You could have just simply went into a computer, typed in gear for rent, and you would have had probably 10 million hits. Because everybody has these camera packages. Don't use a DSLR. Use a RED. No, don't use a RED. Use an area of... You know what I mean? It's just... You can just keep going down this wormhole of gear and stuff like that. But you really have to... I say...

you know, find out what your project is and really play to that. Uh, and it was just what primer did. And, uh, you know, and really just sort of go from there. And I think, you know, you, you don't have to worry about finding the latest gear and shooting in 4k or IMAX or whatever, because, you know, uh,

most people are never going to see your movie in 4k or IMAX because, you know, most of the monitors that we have nowadays, you know, like 99% of them on the planet aren't, aren't 4k. You know what I mean? So this obsession with just this high res and everything else, it's just sort of detracting from actually making the movie. You know what I mean? Cause they're always chasing the next big thing in the, in the, in the gear market. Um,

But, you know, I actually want to ask you too, Kurt. You know, you have a few projects, you know, again, I was looking at your IMDb, things that are announced. So, you know, I wanted to ask Kurt, you know, with Camgirl out now, it's on Amazon Prime. And I wanted to ask you, what are some of your other projects that you have out there that you're working on right now?

Well, yeah, it's very much what is the next thing. Like I was saying, just from the writing standpoint, it's keep moving on. And the same thing with things you're trying to get in production. So I've got 30 Nights Stand, which is a rom-com. And that was what I wrote kind of after Camgirl was kind of my answer to that. And I kind of wanted to...

do something different with that. I've heard it called, you know, it's like a rom-com with an edge. Basically, the logline is tensions rise and sparks fly when a woman is cunning enough to turn a one-night stand into an opportunity to live with a man rent-free. So it kind of like... It very much deals with the kind of generation I'm in now, you know, people in their 30s and everything. There's this big...

thing about, you know, you need to have a house, you know, and, and, you know, what kind of house do you have and are, Oh, you're renting. Okay. You know, or who's living with you or you've got roommates and you're 35, whatever, you know, it's like some people might have a problem with that. It's other people like, no, I think it's the best thing, you know, going for me right now. It's like, you don't understand, you know? So, I mean, it's very much, and there's all this kind of, what really kind of triggered the idea was this talk about, um,

uh, what's the term I guess is like, uh, kind of like forced ownership in a way. Um, where that's, there's kind of like this strange stuff where, um, uh, people can kind of claim owner ownership if they've been there for seven years or whatever. And it's been dormant, there's kind of weird legal stuff. And it's also like a bit, uh, it takes a different direction than what 30 night stand. It's not that, but I mean, there's all this kind of weird stuff as far as, um,

vacancies and squatters and you know living arrangements and I kind of just tried to make a funny situational rom-com out of that you know of course it's the conflict ensues because they're stuck there for 30 days you know he gives her a notice to vacate and now they hate each other you know it starts off as this great you know love affair for one night but they woke up

So then it's like what happens after that? And, you know, it kind of ebbs and flows and goes from there. Um, so that's that. And I'm very happy. I've got, uh, Annika Marks attached to that so far. And she was in the sessions with Helen Hunt. Um, also have, uh, Serena Vincent, uh, to play alongside her. And she's known from like, uh,

Cabin Fever, of course, the original, and other genre movies like Tales from Halloween and stuff like that. So that's that one. And another one I'd like to talk about is Anxiety. And that was actually originally I wrote as a play script, so now I have a two-act play script. I'm trying to try my hand at that because I am, like I said, my strength is kind of character-driven stuff, dialogue-centric. And Anxiety is a...

based, uh, loosely based on a true event that happened. Um, basically a manic claustrophobic woman gets locked inside an office building bathroom after hours, along with a male janitor. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. So it's just based on this, uh, true events, uh, not the story itself. It's, it departs from it very much where this woman was, uh, trapped in this, uh,

office building on a Friday night in Washington and she is so claustrophobic that when it's kind of the news articles didn't explain why she got locked in there but she got locked in this bathroom and it took her eight hours she eventually pried she broke the wooden chair inside there pried at the

used the wooden chair to pry at the metal handle on the inside of the front door of the bathroom. The thing snapped off, so now she doesn't have even a handle. But she takes that handle that snapped off from the inside and uses it as a chisel.

And she first tried to chisel through the sidewall. I don't know, but she tried to do that and she couldn't because it became solid after she got through the drywall and all. So then she tried, eventually she burrowed the same kind of hole, but right beside the door, reached on the other side, stuck her arm through,

the wall and unlocked it from the other side and eventually escaped that way. Um, so it just, it took that concept and really kind of went a different direction with it because there's somebody else stuck in there with her. And of course they start blaming each other and, you know, have to, are forced to deal with each other and how are we going to get out of this mess? And it's, it's, it's just, again, deals very much with gender and, uh,

and even a possible love interest going on. It's just very fun. So that was actually adapted to a screenplay as well. So I have that as a two-act play script and a feature that I hope to get going, and it's very much contained. I think it also helps that it's inspired by true events, because they like having that. Distributors like being able to put that on a poster or a DVD box, which I get.

Yeah, I remember talking to friends about stuff like that. Whenever you're at video stores, but whenever you go to a video store and you would see that stuff. And by the way, yes, everyone, I know video stores still exist. I'm just making a joke. That actually came up, by the way, Kurt. I had a guest on, and I also had people email me like, Dave, you know video stores still exist, right? I'm like, yes. I was making a little levity, guys, you know? Come on.

Yeah, there's like, what, 102 blockbusters left? But yeah, they exist. I actually worked at one. I worked at a Hollywood video. So I could try to claim, oh, me and Tarantino, yeah, we have the same. Not so much. But yes, I did a stint at a video store, and it was awesome. It's about the perk of having movies. I was able to check out movies before they were on the shelves. That was like the coolest executive privilege in the world.

Like I was able to take home a movie like a week before it's available to the public. It was like, yes, that is, that is so cool. You know what? It's funny. I actually had a friend of mine who worked at a Hollywood video and we got to go in there and rent some movies. And, uh, we actually rented a movie called bloody murder, which,

which is produced by, it was like the first movie produced by Mark Bienstock who ended up, I ended up being his TA when he taught here at Drexel here in Philly, when he was shooting and when he was producing M night Shyamalan split. And he and I, he ended up, he ended up coming on the podcast too. And Mark and I were talking about it. And I was like, imagine how small a world that is, that that was the movie we grabbed. And then, yeah, end up, you know what, 15 years, 20 years later, we end up, you know, uh,

working together. I mean, my God. But yeah, I'm sorry, not to get too off track. Sorry. But yeah,

But yeah, it's just cool that you got to work at that Hollywood video. And yeah, there are some blockbusters around. But just to go back with what you're talking about, yeah, I know exactly what you mean when you put it on that, inspired by true events, right on the poster. And that sort of goes back to the unique selling position, right? You always have to find a way to stand out. Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. I mean, that's what they did for Fargo and it wasn't even true, I believe. Exactly. Like some people, like I heard some tragic story, like somebody actually, you know, I think, you know, passed away because they were searching for this money out in the middle of nowhere or something like that. I mean, it's just like...

Oh, geez. Oh, yeah. By the way, it was not true. Sorry. That was actually – that's actually a true story. That somebody – there was – they actually made a movie about it. I think it's called Riko the Treasure Hunter or Hariko. It's a Japanese woman legitimately came to America –

looking for that money that Steve Buscemi's character actually buried in Fargo, buried in that long wooden fence in the middle of nowhere with no markers whatsoever, which is kind of funny that he takes the ice scraper and puts it on there because that was the only marker he could get, you know, because it's just vast wasteland. And she actually legitimately came to this country looking for that and ended up dying looking for it.

So I just need to find this, this isolated house with this woodchopper in the back. And then I've got a frame of reference. That's all I need. Yeah. And honestly, the movie was actually pretty good, but I mean, obviously Fargo is a masterpiece, but, but also the, the other movie,

I forget the actual name, but it's called something, The Treasure Hunter. And it was actually pretty good because it was about this isolated woman living this terrible life. And she figures, you know what? Why not just go to America and look for this treasure? And I don't know if her life in real life was that bad, but I do know that she did go to this country looking for treasure and didn't find it, obviously, because it doesn't exist. But you know what, Kurt? I honestly think this has been such a great experience

chance to speak with you. I know we met online and it's so great being able to meet people like you. We've been talking for about an hour and 20 minutes now. I just want to wrap this whole conversation up. Is there any parting thoughts that you have for everybody or anything that you want to discuss and we get a chance to? Yeah, thanks. Super quick because you're talking about the net worth and everything is what you're worth. I recently

I have to just give a shout out to a novelist that I became friends with, E.A. Stripling. She's got a novel series, Internal Conflict is the first one. I just really have been inspired by how she kind of just took me in and after just contacting each other and talking back and forth and I really like what she does online and promoter stuff.

And we just are probably going to continue to collaborate. So it's all just about making those connections and taking opportunities to bring them up, you know, when you get a chance. Because she sings my praises and like it's like, oh, wow, you said that. That's so nice. Thank you. But so final thoughts. I honestly did have a question for you if we have time right after this. But really, it just it just all comes down.

I really just have to reiterate that you have to really have your heart in it. Because I know you've heard other people say the advice. They say, is there anything else you'd like to do besides filmmaking? Law, whatever. A doctor? Okay, pursue that. Because it would be infinitely easier than working in that. I don't want to be so hard-nosed about it. But I just do want people to understand where that comes from. It comes from the fact that it is such a grind. It is so hard. You're going to be just...

wrought with doors being shut in your face and obstacles along the way, just like great stories that you want to be telling. It's just one obstacle after another, and it's all about being that protagonist that has that goal that is just so solid that you're going to see it through to the end. It takes eight years. It's not that project. Even if you have to

In the meantime, while you're trying to get that one project going, you're writing the next one and the next one. Because you can see in IMDb Pro, if you subscribe, you can see professionals. They have eight things in development, and they probably have two or three things that aren't even listed that are in development. And the reason is because, yeah, it might take even a year or two for one of those to pan out. You just don't know. The stars have to align, and it's just going –

back to that is it's just remembering that it's really something that you have to just have a passion for. If not, then it's, it's maybe try a different, different avenue or a different part of the industry. You know, some people can be consultants, some people become agents, you know, maybe that's kind of, you're close to the right track, but it's just a little slight deviation from it. Yeah. And, uh, you know, that, that's so true, Kurt. And honestly, I want to say thank you so much for coming on, but you, you know, and just sort of,

you know, again, you know, when you're meeting all these people, I always say, you know, no matter who they meet, no matter where they are, I always say, stay humble for as long as you can. Uh,

Um, cause you know, you know what I mean? Cause you never know who you're going to meet again. Um, so if you, if you do meet somebody who's a PA one day, they could be your producer the next day or a consultant, like you were just saying, uh, or, or running an agency or who knows what. And then all of a sudden you're, you're trying to pitch to them and they're like, Hey, remember, remember me? We were on that set and you were a jerk to me. And, uh,

And you just you don't want to be in that situation. We're like, oh, sorry about that. But you know what I mean? People remember. I think unfortunately, I think they remember the jerks more than they remember the nice people. They definitely remember both, but they kind of make a point to remember the jerks. So they don't want to work with again. Yeah. Yeah. Seriously. Yeah.

So, Kurt, just in closing, did you have a question for me? I did. Okay. As I said earlier, I am a listener, and I don't think I've ever heard this kind of address, and I'm really curious just for myself. I really love the, I guess, industry term for it's bumpers, you know, the great intros and outros you have. Now, this outro, I honestly have to know, what is the story behind this outro, the voice of this, you know, that it's about to play? Yeah.

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show. Who is that? Where did that come from? The girl at the end? Yeah. That was actually supposed to be my original intro. I got that done on...

Okay, so I actually had a friend of mine make that 8-bit intro, and that was my intro for—if they've been listening since the earlier episodes, that intro, that weird kind of like, do-do-do-do, that 8-bit sound, that was done as an intro. I actually found a girl on Fiverr to do that sort of like, you know, this is the Dave Willis podcast, please make sure to subscribe and share the podcast.

Well, I actually took both of them together and I was like, it's not working. So I took them together and I mixed them and I said, you know what, that's going to be my outro now. And my intro is also done by that same 8-bit artist. And that is actually obviously the Kill Bill Battle Without Humanity and Honor from Kill Bill Volume 1. And that's the intro and that's how the outro came to be.

Well, that's very great. Don't change a thing. That little 8-bit and everything explains why. The only way I can express it is that voice. It sounds like a robot with a British accent that is on Xanax. I just love it. It's just so weird. And every time I hear it, I'm like, yep.

It's about consistency. It's good to have these YouTubers and podcasters and filmmakers. Like you were talking about, it's a brand. It's like you create this kind of catchy thing and you kind of just have to stick with it because they expect it week after week or what have you.

Yeah, and it's so true. It's just like we were saying. You go to McDonald's, you know what the burger's going to taste like. You don't want to go to that McDonald's and have it taste something completely different. You're going to say, what the hell? You know what I mean? It's that sort of... They sort of know what they're going to expect. If they go to a Tarantino movie, they know what to expect. It's that...

living up to those expectations. And, uh, that's where I've tried to make this a little, you know, some, you know, have creativity here and there, and also try to make a little uniformity here and there. So, uh, but thank you very much for, for that compliment. I really do appreciate that. Uh, Scott McMahon once told me that it reminded him of, uh,

Scott McMahon from Film Trooper. He told me it reminded him of the Nerdist one time and I was blown away. I was like, wow, you want to compare me to Chris Hardwick on the Nerdist? Please do, sir. I'm nowhere near his level of stardom or anything, but I take that compliment very, very graciously. And so, Kurt, just in closing, where can people find you at online?

Oh yeah, absolutely. So you can check out our official site. It's webcamthefilm.com. You can also find us at Twitter at camgirl underscore movie. Facebook at camgirlmovie. On Instagram it's at kurtweiser. And thank you so much for having me on. Please rate. And we're also on Amazon Prime.

So, yeah, please just if you're watching Amazon Prime, it's great. Just, you know, leave a rating. It'd be huge, you know, good or bad. Please just like leave rating, leave a feedback. I'd like to hear what your thoughts are. And that's it. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast there, Dave.

My pleasure, Kurt. Like I said, you're a person that's been on my radar for a while because we met on Twitter. I believe we met on Twitter, but I usually meet most people there. So it's either there or Facebook. We met on one or the other. But I've actually had to, you know, wanted to have you on for a while. And I will link to everything in the show notes, everybody. And Kurt, I want to say thank you so much for coming on, my friend. Thank you so much.

Thank you. And with all that expectation we've been building, cue the outro in 3, 2, 1...

I want to thank Dave so much for doing such a great job on this episode. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at indiefilmhustle.com forward slash 789. And if you haven't already, please head over to filmmakingpodcast.com, subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It really helps us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much for listening, guys. As always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive. Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.

Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at IndieFilmHustle.com. That's I-N-D-I-E-F-I-L-M-H-U-S-T-L-E.com.