IFH 792: The Power of the Cut: Storytelling Secrets from Michael Trent
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Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood, it's the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast. I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Filmtrepreneur, how to turn your independent film into a profitable business.

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Well, initially it's a family involvement. I mean, my father was a sound editor in England. He's now retired. So editing has been something that I grew up with, going to work with my dad. I've even got pictures of me back in the late 1970s with single stripe and film in my hands. So it was really my father that got me involved. But I also did go to a film school in England.

A very small, relatively unknown one, but it was still a film course that I did in England. But essentially it was a family connection. So you were basically born into it. So it was almost like it was in your blood to get into the film industry. In lots of ways, yeah. I mean, it really was. It was something that we grew up with on a, you know, really a day-to-day basis.

So let me ask you this. Is there a difference of any kind, whether major or minor, between the sort of the English film industry and the American film industry? If there is, I'm not sure that I'm really aware of it. When I was in England, I worked on lots of American films anyway, or at least, you know, what the finance from the United States was.

So I couldn't really tell the difference. I mean, there's certainly larger budgets in the United States. And I did work on some English films that were smaller budgets. But no, as far as my work experience is concerned, there wasn't really a difference or isn't really a difference.

So when did you first decide, I mean, when you were editing, actually, let me ask you this. When you were going back into editing and you were actually, you know, as you were sort of born into this, did you have like a movie Ola at home or anything else where you were just sort of cutting your own films together or maybe even a Super 8 camera? Well, no, we didn't have a movie Ola. They were quite big, big machines. But I did get used to using a movie Ola from the age of about, I would say, 10 years old.

My father would bring us into work and I would get to use the machinery, that and steam becks and flatbed chems. But we didn't have any equipment at home, no. So, Michael, when did you make the trip then from England to over here to America? In 1994. 1994.

So when you came over, did you already have like a few gigs lined up and like movies to edit? No, no, not at all. I was on a movie that started in England and it was a it was a picture called We're Back, A Dinosaur's Story. And I was a sound assistant on that movie. And we were mixing at Twickenham Studios in England.

And the executive producer on the movie was Steven Spielberg. And he saw the mix from Twickenham and wanted some changes and decided that it would be better to bring the movie from England to the United States to do the final mix at Universal. Actually, we ended up at Todd A.O., but...

Actually, it's the other way around we ended up at Universal That's how I initially came here and

Yeah, that was all in that was in 1993 and then I Met a girl in fact on that movie and then went back to England In the meantime, we did the long-distance relationship thing and then I moved here completely in September of 94, but at that time I had no gigs lined up when I arrived here

I really cold called British editors that I'd known in England, about five of them. And luckily for me, one of them came back actually with a job offer. So finding work was initially was was, as a relatively easy for me, just because this this particular editor picked me up and gave me a job.

So at that point, he knew you. So you didn't have to like show him like a reel or anything, right? So he actually knew you from before. Yeah, I knew him from England and he was a British editor that worked in England and then was working here. He was working on a picture called Rob Roy for Michael Caden Jones. The editor was Peter Hones. And as I say, I knew him from England and he was one of the people I called and he just happened to have an opening at that particular time.

So just to sort of follow up on that question and just to sort of, you know, if you're ever going, cause I actually have some friends of mine who've actually gone from country to country. I think that's a really incredible feat because if you go to another, even if you're in England, let's say, and you go from maybe Manchester to London, you know, you're,

Depending on the size of the network, you might have nobody, have to actually get your foot in the door through reels. You're basically starting over from scratch. And then going from a different country to another country, you really either have to A, have a deep network, or you have to be able to just sort of get your foot in the door at a lot of places. And I actually know a couple of people, Michael, who are actually moving from different places like Australia to Australia.

England because they want to actually get into the British film industry. So it's just kind of I always kind of find it, you know, fascinating because just to be able to do that, either have to one of the one of those two things, have a deep network or be able to just knock on 10,000 doors to get one. Yes. Yeah, well, that that's right. I mean, you know, when I look back on it, it was a crazy thing to do.

But I was young at the time and it didn't feel scary at the time. It was just something I wanted to do. And for some reason, I felt that it would work out. And to one extent or another, it has. So I feel very lucky. You know, you touched on something, too. Don't you feel when you're younger?

Maybe, you know, when you're first starting out in film, anything's possible. You know, like anything, you know what I mean? Like you could, it just feels that everything's just going to come together where you're in a project or what have you. You just go, you know what? I don't, you know, damn the, the people who naysayers and I don't have a lot of budget. I don't have a lot of budget. I don't have a lot of, you know, whatever.

but we're just going to go do something. You know what I mean? Uh, cause I mean, I honestly, like I I'm 32 right now. And when I was first starting out, I would actually go out and shoot a hell of a lot more than I do now. You know what? Yeah. I mean, has a similar effect happened to you? Um, I think that, uh, it was definitely my experience was, um, uh, I, I didn't really consider the possibility of failing and that wasn't any kind of not meant in an arrogant way. It's just that, uh,

I just felt that it would work out. It was something that I really wanted to do to move to the United States and work in, in film editing. And it was just something that I felt would work out. Um, and I wasn't, I wasn't scared about it. Um, as I say, probably foolishly looking back, but I felt it was, it was just something that would, would just happen. Um, there's definitely a sort of a fatalist element to it. Um,

I guess I just didn't consider what would happen if I failed. Yeah. You take quitting and failing off the table, right? And basically you're like, you don't give yourself a choice. You just say, say to yourself, listen, this is the, you know, I have one option and this is it. I have to do go do this. This is what we're doing. That's, that's the basic was, this is what I'm doing. Yeah. And, uh, and there, and there was no considering anything else. So it was just,

I mean, there's been periods of unemployment in the interim where things have not always been easy. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Initially, somebody was looking after me, for sure. And it was Peter Hones. There's no doubt about that. So after that one editing job that we were just discussing, after that was over, what did you do to go out and to try to find more assignments and more movies? After Rob Roy...

Yes. Yeah. I was actually Peter Hones had another movie which we went straight on to. So I didn't have to do any knocking on doors. We went straight almost straight on to a movie called Eye for an Eye that John Schlesinger directed.

Um, and again, he picked me up as an assistant editor on that movie. So we all moved on as a crew. It wasn't immediate, but it was within a, within a month or two. Um, so we all moved on as a crew. So, and then, and then basically did you keep like moving along with Peter as you, as you, from project to project? We did, we did a Rob Roy, I for an eye. Uh, then we did, um, I think then the, the next one we did was LA confidential.

uh, in, uh, in 1996. Um, so those were actually, there was three movies that I, I moved along with Peter. Uh, he hired me on three, three movies. Um,

And then I went elsewhere after that. So after you went, you know, I actually am looking at your IMDb right now. And I have to ask you, you were the assistant editor on Saving Private Ryan, you know, getting to work with Spielberg and seeing some of the footage they first shot and everything like that. You know, what was it like to actually work on Saving Private Ryan?

Oh, well, it was an incredible experience from lots of points of view. First of all, we knew I'd read the script, so I knew it was going to be an amazing script, an amazing movie. But from a personal point of view, it was an amazing experience. We went from – I'd worked on Amistad before that, and we went straight into Saving Private Ryan, and

But from, say, a personal experience point of view, we went from here to Ireland, took all the equipment with us, and we were editing in a field in Ireland. And then that was for the first three weeks of the – for the – shooting the opening sequence on the beaches –

And then after three weeks, we moved to Hatfield in England to a facility there, which was an old aerospace museum. And the set was built on the on the airfield. So, I mean, everything about that movie was amazing at the time. And we knew it at the time. We were very excited to work, work on the show. Did you ever get to actually meet Stephen at any point?

Yeah, many times. I mean, he would come to editing usually at lunchtime and we would be ready for him. We knew it was all set up beforehand. So, yeah, I'd be in the room with Spielberg and he'd be running on the cam and selecting dailies. So I met him on many occasions. Yeah.

And, I mean, that's obviously one of the most influential directors of all time. I mean, it was just... And again, the reason I bring that up is because of that. He is just one of the most influential directors of all time. And you work with him afterwards on AI, which is an interesting project I wanted to ask about, too. But, so...

What was some of the things you took away from working with Spielberg? Was there anything he told you, anything that maybe, you know, that he said that you just sort of like, oh, you know, that's a, you know, you know, when you work with people at that level, it's sort of like, you know what I mean? It's you're looking for something like a almost like a quote or something to have that epiphany, that aha moment. Is there anything he sort of said to you that just sort of still sticks with you?

No, I mean, I don't really remember anything that he said. I mean, it was just an observation of somebody that can work, that just has such amazing ideas that can seemingly be manufactured out of nothing. There's one particular story I talk about, and we were on Minority Report.

And we had been editing for a while and Spielberg was away. I think he was in Japan. And he called into the editing room with a note of a picture change to make. And it was not just straightforward. It was fairly complex. It involved three, four shots. And he said, I believe it will work better. And remember, he's in a remote location. He's in Japan. And we make the change on the chem.

And, well, not unbelievably, because he's Steven Spielberg, but the change worked exactly the way he said it would. And it just said to me that he had some kind of video camera in his head that was able to actually run the footage back and then make editing changes in his own head. And I suppose from that point of view, I was thinking about you can...

Imagining the edit is something that I try and do, and that was something that he did. And I suppose that's something that I try and utilize in my career today.

That's the best way I can answer that question. And sure, Michael. And I wanted to just ask a follow-up in editing as a whole. Are you ever given the script along with the footage or are you just given the script supervisor's notes, so to speak, when you're actually editing films? No, I have the line script written.

Each day, the pages that were shot the day before come in and they're marked up from the script supervisor and I work with the script as I edit.

Okay. I always, you know, like to hear how different people work and, uh, you know, I've always wondered that cause I know I was just reading about how some, sometimes, you know, scripts are, uh, so carefully guarded and you know what I mean? And it's just sometimes the editor, the editors, you know, they'll just get, you know, notes like that or sometimes they'll actually be given the full script so they can actually just go, you know, read through it. Uh, and I've worked with different line producers too, who sometimes say, look, I get the script. I don't even read it, Dave, because I just, I just see different things like, you know, are pulled out of it. And, uh,

You know what I mean? And they just go from there. So, um, so when you were working with Spielberg, uh, you worked with him again on, on AI. And I believe that that film was started by Kubrick, right? And then it was finished by Spielberg. That's my understanding. Um, I, I wasn't really involved in, in the Kubrick end of it. Um, I, I understand that Spielberg and Kubrick had had a conversation over a

But I wasn't involved in the details of how that came about. I do remember that we had some footage that Kubrick had shot and it was footage of ocean waves and it was going to be used as an element in the submerged Manhattan sequence. But as far as the transition of the director being Kubrick to Spielberg, I wasn't really involved in that.

I see. And, uh, cause I, I was just always fascinated because, you know, I heard so much about that movie and, uh, you know, that it was started by Kubrick and then had to be finished by Spielberg and, uh, and everything else. And, you know, I actually saw it in a, in a film class I took in college and I actually liked it a lot more than other people did, uh, because some people felt it would felt like two different movies coming together. Uh, when I always said I, that's probably what it was, uh, because it was with Kubrick and Spielberg. But, um, again,

I just wanted to ask about that because, again, that was a follow-up to Spielberg. So just to sort of, Turk, take this into your career trajectory. When you actually went from an assistant editor to the actual editor, you worked on some pretty cool projects. And I want to talk about just how you became the editor. So at what point did you realize that you were ready just to take on all the editing responsibilities and sort of be like that guy, so to speak? Yeah.

You know, when did you realize that you were you were finally ready to do all that? I well, it was in it was in 2004 when we finished the terminal. And what happened? I mean, you touched on it a little bit earlier. When you move countries, you have to restart your career. And that was definitely my experience. As much as I was lucky to be picked up by Peter Honess, I had to.

Spread out my, you know, find new contacts. So essentially, I did have to restart my career. And even when I went in with Spielberg's editing crew, you know, they didn't know me. And I really had to sort of prove myself.

So if I'd done, you know, eight years in England and I did another 10 years, eight or 10 years here, um, I really felt after that amount of time I was ready. I mean, usually if I'd stayed in England, maybe I would have made the jump sooner. Um, but because I really felt I had to restart my career in the United States, I, I was, I was ready probably sooner than, um,

2004 at the end of the terminal is a few things happened. Um, is that I moved up within the ranks of that editing room. One of the assistants who'd been with, um, Michael Kahn before me moved on to edit himself. So I was able to, to, to move up into a, into the first assistant, uh, position. Um, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show.

And I felt that I did the terminal and Munich as the first, as actually one of the first assistants. So at that point, I had gone as far as I was going to go in that editing room. And I felt, again, maybe fatalist. I felt that I could do it. And again, I just decided that was what I was going to do. But in actual fact, it was, I did finish the terminal. I went and cut a picture.

And then I was out of work for a while and they offered me to come back on Munich, which I did. And then I've been editing ever since then on my own.

So when you went out on your own, you know, did you have a reel with you and say to different projects, did you say, listen, I can I am, you know, ready to be the editor now? I mean, so and also at that point, did you have like a lot of your own tools, meaning, you know, at your house, do you have like your own editing bay set up and and you can work that way? I have done. Yeah.

I sometimes have had, I mean, I cut on my laptop, which is, you know, I'm talking to on my laptop right now. I have editing software on my laptop. I don't always like to do it because I like the separation between home and work.

But I do have some equipment at home from time to time. But to go back to your previous question, first part of your question, I cut a couple of short films. And one of them I cut on film and then one of them I cut on a laptop using software called FileMaker Pro. And I use those movies as a calling card and they help me get editing jobs.

They certainly helped me get my first feature length movie, which was a picture called My Bollywood Bride, or also known as My Faraway Bride. But I don't have an editing set up in my house. No.

So, actually, that is a question I wanted to ask you too, Michael, is about actual editing. You know, when you're actually on a film set or you're actually in the editing lab, you know, working on this, you know, 99% of the films now are all digital. They're shot, you know, with, you know, probably one of, you know, 20 cameras. But, you know what I mean? But, like...

versions of cameras, but they're all digital. You're getting either different cards or you're getting hard drives. You're getting something. So what do you edit on now? Is there a specific editing software like Avid, Premiere that you actually edit on? Yes, Avid Media Composer.

I've used, as I say, I've used Final Cut Pro, but not for a long time. But I've used Premiere very minimally, although I'd like to use it more. But my main tool is Avid Media Composer. And why is Avid? Because I've heard other people using Avid. I'm like a Premiere guy.

I actually just downloaded Avid's free, I don't know if you know this or not, but Avid just released a complete 100% legit free editing software called Avid Media Composer Free. And it's sort of like a light version of Media Composer, the pro-grade version. And I'm just, you know, I get in there and play around a little bit. I'm so used to Premiere that it's a little, there's obviously a learning curve. But, you know, what makes Avid like basically what most pro editors want to use?

Well, that's a tough question. I don't, I mean, I use it because it's always been the system that's been available. I'm not sure that the tool, I mean, I've used, I've done the opposite to you. I've actually downloaded the free version of Premiere. So I played around with Premiere in that sense. But yeah.

The most honest answer is that I use Avid Media Composer because it's what's been available to me and that's made me get used to it. And now that that's the reason I'm the most comfortable with that system. It's just that's the one that was presented to me.

you know, when I was actually teaching editing courses at a college, which is a whole nother story, by the way, Michael, how I got into that. Um, we, we had actually, we had a meeting because one professor wanted me to put in Vegas studios and,

The other professor wanted avid media composer. The other professor wanted just Windows Movie Maker, and then I wanted Premiere. So it's kind of like, well, how do you please everybody? Right. And so the answer was we ended up just going with Premiere and Windows.

Windows Movie Maker is free anyway. And I think somebody else wanted Final Cut. I think that's what it was. So basically, the one professor came to me and she goes, oh, I've worked in different productions and this and that. She was getting info from other editors. She wasn't actually an editor. Actually, I was the only person that's ever actually edited a movie in the whole room, which was actually kind of funny. But everybody else just heard things like, oh, this is what this guy used and this is what that guy used. So she was on productions and she was like, well,

I heard from my guy that they only use Advid and that's that, and that you shouldn't be using anything else. And I always like to ask, cause I always go back to that. Cause it was actually kind of funny how we're all in a room and we're all just sort of having a pissing contest. So which editing software to use. Right. Yeah.

So it's good. I always that's why I always ask that question. And whenever the students when I actually whatever, whenever I would teach, they would go out into the field, most of them would find that people did you still use Avid? And then but I always said, you know, don't worry about an actual software, worry about the principles of editing.

Well, that's absolutely correct. And that's the reason I stick with Avid. Although I say I'm certainly not against trying out Premiere. It's just that I want to concentrate on the storytelling aspect of editing rather than the sort of how do you make it dissolve? Which button do you push? There was a learning curve in the transition from editing on film to electronic editing for me.

And I spent a while getting used to working with the Avid. So once I was used to it, it's the devil you know. And as I say, I want to concentrate on the storytelling aspect rather than the actual software.

Yeah, I completely agree. 100%. It's all about the story and telling the best story possible. And I wanted to talk to you also just, you know, about the hatred. Obviously, you know, I've been interviewing everybody in the cast and crew of this movie. I actually talked to a friend of yours.

uh thomas fleming uh oh yeah and thomas was like oh make sure you talk to michael trent that guy's amazing and uh i i was like you know what he's actually next on the list for me to talk to so here we are but i wanted to ask about the hatred and about you know editing that you know editing that so you know how did you go about you know getting the gig uh on this movie

Well, it was a situation where I was, I knew the director. The director and I met at elementary school. Not to say that we met when we were 8, 9, 10, 11. Our sons went to the same elementary school here in Studio City. And in...

Well, certainly the Studio City area. Whenever you meet parents, there's lots of people that are involved in the film industry. And Mike and I were just talking, just standing around, and we asked each other what we did. And that was a number of years ago. So I met Mike through our sons at school and had talked for, well, probably a couple of years about filmmaking.

And then he asked me to edit the short film of "The Hatred" which was called "Hush." And then we had a certain amount of success with that. And he asked me to edit the feature after that. So I didn't actually have to go out and get the job in this particular instance because I already knew the director.

And yeah, Mikey Kehoe, he's everywhere, right? I mean, by the way, do you know that the trailer for the film has over 10 million views? I did hear that. I didn't know it was as much as 10 million, but Mike Kehoe called me the other day and said we were up to 7.4 million views. So that's just incredible that we're at 10 million views.

Yeah, I actually saw it go over, I think, either on Friday night or last night, which is Saturday. I saw it roll over to 10 million, and I was like, my God, this is like a juggernaut. So I wanted to ask, Mike, did you edit the trailer as well? No, I edited a version of the trailer, but I believe the trailer was...

made at through Lionsgate. I believe that's correct, but no, I wasn't involved in editing of the trailer. Okay. I know sometimes the editors don't actually, there's a whole different trailer editor and I just wanted to ask, you know, but so, you know, it's amazing. It's over 10 million views. And, you know, obviously when, when this comes out on September the 12th,

you know i'm actually you know interested to see you know how you know you know how how you know everyone responds and uh you know because again like mike and i were saying he wishes the movie was coming out you know this weekend because he's like you know all these things are happening and he goes you know we have a we have a whole another month or so before it's actually out yeah yeah so you know mike i wanted to ask you about editing the hatred

When you're actually editing a horror film like this, do you find that there's a lot more of, I mean, obviously timing is everything, right? So is there more of a timing when you're doing something like the hatred with horror rather than maybe something more like, I guess, comedic, like Gemini Holograms, which you also edited? We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

You know, I mean, obviously they're two very different films. So obviously, is there a lot of... What are some of the nuances that you have to sort of go through when you're editing two different films just like that, just as an example? Yeah, I mean, there's definitely a difference. I mean, with a movie like The Hatred, especially, I mean, the opening of the movie, well, the opening of the movie was...

I edited with a certain amount of suspense. When we introduced the girls, I edited, let's say, more of a normal movie. But when the entity starts to take over the house, basically you edit, to put it simply, to try and build tension and suspense, the shots, I just keep the shots longer.

and hold on things a little bit more than I would certainly with a in an action movie or with a with a comedy obviously comedies very much tied up with timing as well but if I was to put give you the broad strokes is I generally hold the shots longer to try and build tension and suspense with a horror movie

So do you sometimes think that, you know, and when I was getting into editing, I made the mistake of cutting too much. Um,

And there was actually a professional editor who once told me, she said, Dave, when you cut too much like you're doing right now, it gets a sense like there's a fight back and forth, like a power struggle. Because when what I was doing was I was cutting on the dialogue. So as soon as you were done speaking, cut, go to the other person. And it was like, you know what I mean? And she goes, you see how that feels almost like an argument? And I said, yeah, I get that now. I totally get that. And that's some of the things that I've picked up too.

Over the years. That's why I imagine, you know, when you're when you're doing horror, you have to hold on to those shots just a little bit more. Hold on to those edits just a little bit more because you are trying to build that that tension and suspense. That's it. That's absolutely right. I mean, there was one particular instance in that in that in the hatred. And it's where Alice walks across the room before she's about to go down into the into the cellar.

And we started that shot and kept it long. It was just so she could do the whole walk across. She goes past a wall in the room, but we kept the whole length of the shot. And also down the stairs, the whole piece was kept almost at full length. And it's for that exact reason. It was, you know, just to build that suspense. But definitely, I mean, another example I can think of is...

This was in another movie, I think, but it was a similar kind of genre. But a shadow appears on the wall. And rather than cut when she walks through the door, you start on the where the shadow first appears on the wall and hold that shot all the way through to when the character walks through the door. And again, with the hope and the aim of creating suspense.

So, uh, you know, what, what are some of like the final things that you, you know, you hope just to talk about the hatred, just to sort of like come full circle, you know, what are some of the things that you, you hope that people take away from the hatred after they got to, after a viewing of the, of the movie? Well, I hope they, I hope they're scared. Um, and I, and I hope they talk about the movie afterwards. Um, if they, if, if we put them on the audience on the edge of their seat, then I believe that we've done our jobs. Um, uh,

As long as it's, you know, they enjoy the movie for those reasons, say, and...

get scared, um, then, then I'll be very happy. So, you know, Mike, uh, just sort of to just continue to talk about editing, you know, what, what are some of the tips or, or, or principles that you've learned over the years, you know, that you would, you could, you know, just sort of give the listeners who are maybe starting to edit their movies or, or maybe just to something that, you know, they could use if they're trying to edit their own movie. Um, yeah,

It's a good question. I think it probably goes, largely goes back to what we were just talking about, is that you want to, let's just say, first of all, read the script or read the scene and then decide what the emotion of the scene is. If the emotion of the scene is a fight, then you would edit just as you described, you know, cutting very quickly on the dialogue lines or even on the dialogue to give the impression that one person is cutting the other person off.

If it's a romantic scene, again, you'd roll those shots out a little bit longer to create that romantic atmosphere. Comedy probably speaks for itself is you've got to cut to the right reaction after the right amount of time after the punchline.

um, and hold on the punchline for the right amount of time. Uh, I think that these are the things that I've learned the most, because I think that a lot of editors might have that tendency, as you just described, to cut too much. Um, the, the other thing that you might, I often think about is, is cutting to reaction shots. And what is that person thinking? What is the

opposing person thinking as that dialogue line is being spoken and is it relevant to cut to their reaction? And I think it's all about generating the emotion that's intended by the writer, you know, that's written down. So I try and emulate what was originally imagined by the writer.

and you're always, you know, also, you talk about reading the script and about, you know, finding the essence of that scene. You know, what's this scene really about? You know, you hear that a lot too in writing and you realize just how closely involved editing and writing are because, you know, you're trying to build that same atmosphere and now you're doing it with the actual footage while writers, you know, you're doing it and trying to get people to imagine this in their head, you know, trying to get like this little, these images and how everything would pan out in their head. So,

you know, they're, they're very closely related and, you know, finding that core of the scene, you know, what's the scene really about, you know, maybe it's not really about a fight. Uh, that's just the, after that's really the, the sort of causation from the actual, you know, uh, I guess you want to say core of the core of the problem for you, if you will. That's, that's, that's correct. Um, I think that you do, um,

work very, very, very much with the sort of the writer's intention in mind, um, or at least my interpretation of what the writer's intention was. And I, I edit with that in mind for sure. Yeah. And, um, you know, and that's something too, when, when,

Whenever you're editing anything, I think you have to ask yourself those questions. You know, you have to ask yourself those, you know, why are we even, why is this scene even in here? You know, obviously, because somebody once told me about it, about, you could tell the difference between a good editor and a great editor by how, how, how ruthless they'll cut stuff.

And there was this one time a friend of mine was telling me that it took them two days to get this scene right. And the editor said to them, look, you got to cut it. And my friend said, who was the director, he goes, but it took us two days to shoot this stupid thing. And the editor said, yeah, but it adds absolutely nothing to the movie. Mm-hmm.

I think that that's that that's That's absolutely right. I think that as an editor you also have to look at the edit with the big picture in mind You you it may be edit a character but then also edit that character with the whole story arc of the movie in mind so if there's something that's going to pay off later and and

Um, there's a look maybe that you can hold on to not to tell necessarily telegraph to the audience, but it could be something that say you hold on a shot earlier in the movie, which then pays off later. But I think that definitely you have to edit with the whole movie in mind.

Yeah, very true. And that also that includes that if a scene is not giving anything to the movie, even if it took two days to shot, then you have to you have to cut the scene and and and be ruthless about it. If in the big picture, that's that's what's best for the movie.

you know, I always watched deleted scenes off of some of my favorite movies on like Blu-ray or DVD. And when I watch them, I can go, Oh, you know what? Now I see why it's a deleted scene because literally it added nothing to the movie. It added absolutely nothing. And if you actually put it in there, it would have drug it down. Cause you don't want people in the theaters be checking their watches going, Oh my God, when is this thing going to be over? That's exactly right. And that's, that's,

You know, that's the hope that we can judge what those scenes are and and take them out for the good of the movie. Yeah. And very true. And that's where you want to make sure the movie just sort of flows all together. And I think that's what we're all going for. You know, even when we're writing a script or, you know, actually, you know, we're all trying to just make sure that we're a good.

servicing the film as a whole rather than anyone's, you know, ego, so to speak. And to, you know, always making sure that the movie is just flowing together and not to just to just disjointed. If I could actually talk, that would actually help. Disjointed. So, Michael, we've been talking for about, you know, 35 minutes now. So in just in parting, is there anything that you wanted to talk about that we didn't get a chance to or maybe just sort of any final thoughts to put a period at the end of this whole conversation?

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. Only that, you know, I've been I've been doing this this job for a number of years, probably more than than I care to remember. But it's a I love the job to be to be an editor is is.

uh, really for me, um, a satisfying profession. And, uh, as the cliche goes, if you enjoy what you do, then you never work a day in your life. Um, and that for me about editing is absolutely true. It's a, it's a passion of mine and something that I enjoy every day. Um, if, if that's something I can offer up as a,

Not that it's always easy. There's periods of unemployment. But if you stick at it, then it's a very satisfying career. Yeah, and that's a good way to sort of put it, a period at the end of this conversation is you have to do what you love. Again, if I could talk, Michael, it would actually be very helpful. But yeah, you have to do what you love. And that's key to life. I

you know, myself included, sometimes I've just done things or work jobs that you just hate. You're like, what the hell am I doing to myself here? Uh, so you have to, you have to really love this business to, to, to, to make sure you're actually, you know, you want to do it. And there's a lot of tests in the way that actually make sure you're like, do you sure you want to do this? Uh, yeah. So, uh, Michael, where can people find you at online? I'm sorry. What was that? Where can people find you at online? Um, well I have a, um, uh, my IMDB page. Um, um, I have a, a Vimeo, um,

page also really just Michael Trent film editor Google that and a bunch of my stuff comes up my LinkedIn page my IMDB page the name of my agent and I Vimeo page also come up but yeah Google Google my name and film editor and that's my online presence

And I will link to all of that, everyone in the show notes at Dave Bullis dot com Twitter. It's at Dave underscore Bullis. And the podcast is at DB podcast. Michael Trent, I want to say thank you so much for coming on. And, you know, I'm looking forward to the hatred. Great. And thank you for having me.

I want to thank Dave so much for doing such a great job on this episode. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at indiefilmhustle.com forward slash 792. And if you haven't already, please head over to filmmakingpodcast.com, subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It really helps us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much for listening, guys. As always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive. Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.

Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at IndieFilmHustle.com. That's I-N-D-I-E-F-I-L-M-H-U-S-T-L-E.com.