IFH 807: Making Your Own Damn Movies: Inside Dave Campfield’s Troma-Fueled Filmmaking Path
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You are listening to the IFH Podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork.com. Welcome to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, episode number 807. Cinema should make you forget you're sitting in a theater. Roman Polanski.

Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood, it's the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast. I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Filmtrepreneur, how to turn your independent film into a profitable business.

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If you want to order it, just head over to www.FilmBizBook.com. That's FilmBizBook.com. Enjoy today's episode with guest host, Dave Bullis. On this episode, my guest plays Caesar in the comedy team, Caesar and Otto. He hosts the Tromanow podcast, and he also is a filmmaker himself.

We also talk about he went to a college that no longer exists, which again, as you know, I probably find really funny. Not the fact that he went there and it doesn't exist, but the fact that the college, you know,

The college doesn't exist anymore because, you know, we talk about all that stuff. We talk about the worst on-set experiences, including when someone pulled a knife on a first AD. And we talk about getting to work with Troma, creating his own movies, finding an audience, tons more stuff. This is a really awesome interview about, you know, going out there and just doing it yourself and finding all the ways and different connections. And you never know what's going to happen. With guest Dave Canfield.

Actually, we got two Daves right here. It's going to become like that Cheech and Chong sketch. Hey, Dave's not here, man. No, it's me, Dave, your guest. So, happy New Year. Yeah, same to you, buddy. Is it snowing where you are, by the way?

I haven't looked at the window today. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm a bit of a shut in. Hey, same here, man. I just kind of look at my window from time to time being like, oh, that's what it's doing outside. Okay. Actually, I have a huge window right in front of me, but you can't see it because we're on a podcast, but, but I swear it's there.

We can swear a lot of things in there. That's the beauty of podcasting. You know, I'm talking to you from the shuttle Tiderion in outer space. And yeah, welcome to the podcast today. Yeah, it's great, man. I mean, I could just make up anything, too. You know, it's great. My supermodel wife is actually going in the kitchen right now making me some lunch. So it's great. You have a supermodel wife? I do, too. Yeah.

It's great, man. It's great. Oh, it's a small world. Both named Dave. Both have supermodel wives. It's great, man. And both host podcasts. Yeah, both. Oh, my God. Well, we should just make a new show called Dave and Dave. And every week we just come on and just whatever stream of consciousness, any lie, any whatever comes off the top of our head, no one will know the truth either way. And they can kind of like figure out, you know, what are you lying about? What's the truth? Yeah.

This is very psychedelic. Let's get back to reality for a second here. So, Dave, I wanted to have you on the podcast because we actually met through the magic of Twitter and you host your own podcast. You're a filmmaker and hey, you know what? You have an awesome first name. So I figured why not have you on? We could talk about all this good stuff. We were kind of missing each other, so to speak. Because I know we try to make our schedules sync. But

You're on now, so that's why I wanted to have you on. Also because we both watch a lot of trauma movies. We both know Lloyd Kaufman. He's actually been on the show as well. And it's just, again, small world. So just to get started, Dave, I wanted to ask about your whole career and how you got started in the film industry. And also something really cool you do too is, Dave, you do what I've been doing

starting to move this podcast to do. And that is you actually make movies at the same time to the podcast. You know what I mean? Like you're actually out there doing stuff at the same time. I've actually haven't made anything since I started this podcast, which is crazy. But and this and your episode 198. So it's kind of crazy, man. But so I wanted just to get started at the beginning. And that is, you know, when you finally started making your own films and

So just to start us at the beginning, did you go to film school? I went to a college that doesn't exist anymore. I went to the College of Santa Fe in New Mexico. And I went there because it was the only film college in the United States, the only college in the United States that had a film studio on campus. So parts, basically it was, they took their gym and they renovated it and they

they shot part of City Slickers there and other big films. So like I, when you go into this massive facility and in New Mexico where, where this was, all of the houses and all of the architecture of the building is to code and everything looks like an Adobe building. So yeah, I had this visual land of imagination between like the amber tones of the, of the sand, of the, you know, there was no grass there.

It was like...

go to school on Tatooine in Star Wars. And the film college was, was the renovated gym. I mean, the film studio was the renovated gym and you could see, and I'm being pointed to where they shot city slickers, you know, this is where they, they shot a nighttime fire scene indoors, you know, like it was, it was a lot of the exteriors at night were actually shot inside, you know, like they were able to transform it into the, um,

into a grand vista, a grand landscape. And

I could see on the ground too where they shot city slickers that the basketball court had still existed. The chalk marks from the basketball court were still there. But the appeal of going there was really just to be able to witness filmmaking firsthand. And, you know, I was in school with people who went off to be pretty successful, like Rockman Dunbar was a classmate of mine. And now he, you can see him in a lot of things from Prison Break to

He was in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. He's one of those guys you've seen many, many times. But back then we were both just kids and trying to find a way. And I think college tends to be more about the experience you get working on film sets and meeting other people, film college, than it is necessarily even some of the stuff that you learn in the classroom because that you can learn hands-on.

And so that's where I got started. You know, I met a good group of friends that I continue to collaborate with over the years and stay in touch with. And my roommate and I were working on a production. We're trying to get a production off the ground. And he secured two meetings, two meetings, one with New Line Cinema, one with Universal Studios.

And I'm like, this is ridiculous. We're both 21 years old. We got a meeting with these two major studios. Things are looking good. The future is looking bright. So bright, I had to wear shades. And so we got the universal meeting, and I realized there was nothing to lose because right up front, they told us, look, fellas, we're having this meeting, but...

To tell you the truth, we're not going to take your work, but we're interested in meeting you. Like, all right, well, that takes the pressure off. Because we have no background, but we make our best pitch and it was a good meeting. And at the end of which we realized we weren't going to get anything out of it, maybe other than a contact. When we went to New Line, that's when the pressure was on because there was a somewhat, albeit tiny chance that they could look at the script and hire us to make it.

And we got prepped by an entertainment lawyer that was a friend of a friend. And they were giving us all the pointers that you have to say in your big production meeting. And he was telling us, when you guys go in, what they want to hear is that you're young, you're from the streets, you've got a story to tell, and you've got a dark coming of age comedy story.

And liken it to stuff they liked in the past, like gross point blank or heathers, stuff like that. Just tell them. That's the language they speak. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show. So we go into the New Line Cinema meeting with Matt Alvarez. And so, fellas, tell us what you got. I said, hey, well, Matt, we're young. We're from the streets. We're telling a story from the heart of

a dark comedy, sort of like, you know, like a MP, Gross Point Blank, or like a Heathers. And there's a pause as he's sitting and looking at us from across the table when he says to us, you know, I have to say this is all very intriguing. So, and that began at age 21, like a year-long relationship with New Line Cinema in which

It was the absolute carrot being dangled in front of the rabbit and being just out of reach because it went on. I would do little changes for them and Matt would respond and I would do another change and it would take a few months for him to respond again. They were clearly in touch, but I saw the writing on the wall. I felt like they were intrigued enough to keep me on the leash, but not intrigued enough to make that thing happen again.

And Matt went off to do, wind up producing all the Ice Cube movies. And I decided that I was going to try to, you know, not become one of those people that get into that limbo of just waiting for that big opportunity to happen. You just had to make it happen on your own. So I began production on my own film called Under Surveillance, later retitled Dark Chamber. And my attitude going into it is I've seen a lot of indie movies

straight to DVD movies and they tend to fit a certain pattern and the kind of emphasis was on the murder mayhem destruction and following the paint by numbers plot you know there's nothing against them but that's what they do you know like when you go into some of these movies it's sort of like okay the Friday the 13th

homage number 2000. And I really wanted to do something different. I wanted to take, I wanted to make it character based. I wanted to make it different. I wanted to surprise you, maybe more of a mystery thriller with some horror in there. And that was my attitude going into it. And after like five years for, I spent five years on this,

And if things went wrong, there's documentaries online. If you type in, you know, the release title is Dark Chamber. If you type in making of Dark Chamber, you will see everything that could go wrong in five years. Because it usually does. When you're making a film, it's amazing how many things could go wrong. Especially, you just don't have, because you're always cutting corners. You're always compromising. Things are always, you know, money is not on your side. So you're constantly working around issues. And so I spent that time making this.

And I was so happy that I made a film that, as I see, broke the conventions of the genre. And I'm proud of my little young self. I'm like, I go to the studios, I'm like, here. And then their response is,

We wanted something that was more familiar. I'm like, oh, son of a bitch. I thought like I, you know, so all of those times when I'm looking at these movies is because they're encouraged to be familiar and they're encouraged to follow the same things and character matters less than does hitting certain beats of gore and other markable elements. And I didn't really make that kind of film, but yeah.

A couple of companies said we're interested. And the one I went with was Camp Motion Pictures slash Chakarama. And he told me right off the bat, I like this, but to get it into the marketplace, we're going to have to sell it as a horror. And at that point, all right, do what you have to do. And...

Yeah, got it to Netflix and people were expecting Saw when they saw a cover with a pentagram carved into the back of the actress. There was no woman in the movie who got a pentagram carved in her back that made the film look so gory. And that was simply what they felt was going to make it viable in the marketplace and at the same time change the expectations of the audience. But if I had this perfectly marketed as a film...

with the property, like if it was called under surveillance and it had a cover that thoroughly dig that thoroughly, um, representative of the film, um, maybe 10 people would have seen it. So that's the, um, you know, that's the trade off, I guess. If you, if you have a film that doesn't have big stars and, and it doesn't have a content that, that looks like a standard horror, um,

People whose interest, you know, and why see that when Hollywood's presenting the bigger budget equivalent to that same thing with more production values and more polish? You know, you live, you learn. And that was a very...

educational experience. And from there I began doing my comedy horrors because I want to be different in the marketplace. And I want to tell, I also want to tell stories that I miss the kind of story and, and the Cesar Renato franchise, you know, started off with summer camp massacre, deadly X-mas and paranormal Halloween. These are their comedy horror satires. Um,

Where you lampoon the genre. And I hadn't seen like these real comedy horrors other than, you know, the scary movies. But something more akin to Abbott and Costolo meet Frankenstein and those crossover movies where you have two doofy comedy characters and they're in the middle of this, of a horror film. You know, a genre they have no right being in, but somehow when they are, it's a lot of fun.

And that has sort of been the path I've had. And more recently, I got into the Trauma Now podcast, which was simply Lloyd appeared in one of the Cesar and Otto films. And I saw him at a convention. And I said, Lloyd, do you have a podcast? You know, he knows me, even though at first he was like, who are you? I said, I'm Dave. I directed you. He went, oh, God, Dave, I'm sorry. And he said, there's nobody...

there's nobody, we want to do one, but there's nobody doing it. And I said, I want to do one. We'd really want to do your podcast. I think I could, you know, we can have some fun.

And he said, yeah, talk to Levi. And he gave me some contacts. And then we wound up making this thing happen. Basically, they gave me a little bit of notes before each episode. And then I send them the final product. They approve it. And they put it up. And they've never yet denied an episode I've done. It could be like, hey, we don't like this. Because I tease Troma a lot in the podcast. And they're always game with whatever. And they've been...

What a wonderful company to, to collaborate with, you know, just because of the freedom that they give you and coming next year, you know, like, you know, I'm hoping it sounds like Lloyd's going to be the first guest of the new year and possibly two part episodes. So we will, we will see.

About time we got him on there. It's his podcast. Yeah, I was going to say, it's kind of like, where the hell is he? There's a fun board game. Where's Lloyd? Yeah. He's wearing the striped shirt and the glasses over in the corner in the adult bookstore. So he's set to come on. I haven't actively been making films since I've done the podcast, but

And as a matter of fact, I had another show that I was hosting and I had to go on hiatus while I made the film, while I made my last feature. So it is definitely difficult to juggle podcasting and filmmaking. It is because if you're filmmaking and you're wearing a lot of hats, it tends to become your life for that period of five months, six months or a year.

Yeah, it's so true. And just trying to get everyone's schedule to sync and all that good stuff. That's why now I focus more on my writing. When I say I haven't made anything since I started this podcast, that means I haven't actually produced anything. You know what I mean? Other than just focusing on this and sort of trying to get some stuff off the ground.

And just to make it... But next year, I'm dead set. I'm actually... I was actually going to make something this year and just kept getting pushed back. Well, you got a day. Yeah, I know, right? I got a day to come up with this. I actually was... Next year, I actually have already put the groundwork in now because I haven't made anything... I haven't directed anything in a long time just because of... Well, I mean, people who've listened to this podcast know I've talked about it ad nauseum, but basically...

I want to start doing something next year and just getting back on the horse, so to speak, or getting back on the wagon or off the wagon or whichever wagon it is. But but you're making just making sure I'm actually doing stuff. Now, Dave, I just want to actually backtrack just a second here, because you mentioned something that that I really took note of, which is that the college you went to doesn't exist anymore. Did it just lose all its funding and it couldn't operate anymore?

No, apparently I did it. You know, I went there and they're like, man, we're going to close the doors on this place. And it was a small school. I was one of a thousand students that went there. And I think some of these privately funded schools sometimes have a harder time staying afloat unless the tuition is egregious. And it wasn't. So I...

I had been out of there 10 years when they closed. And you know, it's funny, it's like the college was military barracks at one point. So it was like World War II. It was rather a bit late. Our mess hall, or what do you call it, was originally like military barracks from the Second World War. I'm like, this is a hell of a place to go to school. So I think they just, it actually just became another college. They just, you know, gave it a cosmetic gloss and everything.

Turned into another school with less of an emphasis on film. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show. You know, um...

With this whole talk about college and stuff like that, I remember when there were a couple of years ago, Sweetbriar College in Maryland was going to close. And Mark Cuban actually said, see, this is the beginning of the start of the college apocalypse where all these small colleges are going to close. And I think he's absolutely right. Like so once he so I actually looked at all the college closings like the past like 20 years and.

Like the most I think I ever saw like on that line, I think was like nine or 10, but like even the college I went to, I had an awful college experience by the way. And I, I just, I still don't understand, you know, why I even went to college, but, um, and I still, you know, everyone tells you, you have to have that degree. And I went for one year, Dave. So that's, that's my whole college experience. And the rest of the time I, and I left specifically to pursue this and do it on my own. Um,

So my mind's not a traditional college experience. It's a very short one. But that's the smart idea, though, is go. Honestly, man, I've known people who've gone for a day. I've known people who've gone for a year or two. And then they said, look, this isn't for me. Like, I don't get it. I struggled through, you know, all the fluff bullshit classes and got out the end, got that degree. And then you find out it means absolutely nothing. So it's like, you know, what was the point of all that?

that. So, you know, cause if everyone has a bachelor's, then what, what does it actually mean? So it's almost like, and then now, you know, anyways, I'm going to get off on a topic about higher ed anyway. So, so what happens? So with that, you know, I have actually, so, so when you actually would go into pitch and when they talked about, you know, things like, you know, Hey you know, we want something familiar, you know, I, you know, I have a friend of mine who actually pitched a different way. And what he does is when he goes into business meetings and,

He just says a lot of business buzzwords and it's worked out damn well for him. Well, I'll tell you this much. Are you still there? It sounded like there was a little blip. I'm here. Okay. So a number of years ago, I was in California when we were on the same pitch. And by the way, this was for a different movie, the film on a pitch to New Line.

But when we were in California, we got together with another friend who got a million dollars

And he was saying that his whole method of securing this money is he would go into a meeting. He was a scam artist. Not that he didn't deserve the money, but his methods were like, he's going to have his friend buzz him on the cell phone in the middle of the meeting and say that he has to take the call. It's from another investor. And he had all of these little methods planned that would make the investors think that he's more important than he is. And...

So sometimes there's tools of manipulation that are used. But I've never been that guy. I really would like to think of myself as on the level, realistic with who I am, what I'm capable of, and that's it. Not trying to turn myself into something I'm not. And for a lot of people, that's how they get their money. If I feel like I couldn't do something terrific, then I don't deserve it. And

you know, I continue with that philosophy in mind and if it pays off, wonderful. And if it doesn't, whatever, I'm still the person that I am and I'm still moving forward and making films. And, and, you know, even if something is like this is a, is a great experience, just doing podcasts and making indie films, it's nice. And hopefully you get that opportunity. Like I was telling you before we started recording that I, um,

I was interviewed for a History Channel hosting gig, and it was a program. And that was as a result of staying the course. I have a friend of mine who's done very well.

And he says, I like what you do and I want you to co-host a program with me. I want you to audition to co-host for an audition with me before I show that I'm going to be hosting. Had I not been doing what I've been doing, that opportunity wouldn't come through. So a lot of times you have to stick to your gun. If it's what you really believe in, be willing to not do well, but learn along the way and see where it all takes you.

And as a matter of fact, that show did happen. And whereas I wasn't the co-host, I was involved with it. And I had to like, I was one of the reenactors. I wonder if this is cool. This is all bigger than the stuff I've done. And, and it leads, that led to more opportunities. So that's why if you really believe in it, you got to stick to your guns. Yeah. It's, it's,

I find that, you know, and as we talk about just going forward with the podcast and talk about, you know, making movies at the same time, I find that you have to keep that momentum going. Because if you stop, it's way too easy just to lose sort of track of everything, lose sight of everything. And then suddenly you're like, oh, shit, didn't I want to do this by now? You know what I mean? And it just, it's kind of, you got to keep that, you got to keep on that as best as you possibly can. I've been working on one script called Awaken the Reaper for about, on and off for about 10 years. So like,

And it started off as just a fairly generic horror film with a couple of cool twists maybe and has evolved into something extremely personal. And I don't think I've ever done anything this personal. And that's what I've been working on really closely.

for the last year trying to get, you know, like fairly full time trying to get this off the ground and find the proper budget for it because these Caesar and Otto comedy movies I've done, they've done...

between $6,000 and $10,000. And I can't do this anymore. I can't do films. I mean, they're wonderful experiences for the most part, but I can't keep doing films for so little money where I'm getting criticized primarily because I don't have money. It's an incredibly insulting thing to be criticized for.

I have to show what I'm more capable of on a bigger budget because with a bigger budget, you just have higher production values. You have more tools to play with. You have a wider palette to paint from. And so what started off as this generic film just really became the story of me and the story hopefully of all of us where we get to a lot in life. We get into a place where we feel stuck.

And you feel like you can't move forward and you feel like every day is you're not moving forward and you're regretful of the past and afraid of the future. And that's, I think, where a lot of us are. And I want to tell that story about sort of getting out of the way of your own fear within the context of a very thought out horror film.

And if I can make this work the way that I'm imagining and hoping for, if I could touch people on a human level with this, it will make for a really unique horror experience because it's rare that a horror touches you on a human level and feels real. And that's what I'm hoping for. And maybe in 2018, we'll really get to make this happen. We'll find out.

Yeah. You know, money is always that magical thing. But, you know, I always... You know, now I'm sort of working with the other way where I'm trying to sort of build up where, you know, I build up again, as we talk about the past, you know, I'm trying to build it up again to the point now where...

you know, if I, when I do go to an investor or whatever, I actually have a, a, a body of work that's more recent. Uh, and I think that's what, that's an advantage you have. Um, again, here's your business term, unfair advantage, you know, um, what's the, what's the unfair advantage. And I think that's yours is not only that you have the podcast and also you have the body of work and you could say, Hey, I look, I've made this for a few thousand dollars. You know, imagine what I could do for 50. Imagine what I could do for a hundred and you know, everything would still be profitable.

Well, profitable is harder and harder to accomplish these days. You just do the best that you can. And I've, I've aligned with, um,

uh, uh, wild eye releasing has been a wonderful company for me and I do a lot of work for them. They've released my last couple of movies. They just released my compilation back. If you, the holiday horrors, the holiday hard horrors, uh, DVD, if you typed it in, that's all of my Caesar and auto comedy horror films, which they just re-released. And, um, I,

I've been able to work and work on other indie films and do a bunch of stuff for them. And I've gotten to a point where my films make something back that don't necessarily make their budget back, but it shows you how difficult in this day and age with so many movies being made, how challenging it is to make a profit. But it can be done. It can be done. Yeah. And that's something, too, that I talked about, too, on this podcast with a ton of other guests is that

You know, with so many movies being made, how do you stand out? You know, how do you stand out in any which way, shape or form? And how do you get your movie scene now? So that sort of becomes the new, you know, how the distribution method and the marketing for that distribution method.

Let's just say I decided to make a movie. I put it on YouTube for the hell of it. I make a movie this weekend. You and I make a movie, Dave. There's one day left in 2017. So let's make a movie. And you and I make a movie. And we decided just to throw it on YouTube. It's a short film. And you know what? We just say, let's just keyword the hell out of it. Let's just hope for somebody to discover it. Let's just hope. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

No, I'm sorry. Let's, let's bear with it. Let's just use it as a plan of long tail keywords. And that, you know, as longer it's up there, the more chance it has of being discovered. And we just sort of use that method. And, and,

Hopefully somebody stumbles upon it. Again, I keep saying hopefully. I don't like that word hope. You know what I mean? It sounds too much like blind fake. But you know what I'm saying? That's the way of distribution and marketing. But there's a thousand other ways to do it. It's all about trying to get the movie seen. Well, you know, the most successful person that I worked with on YouTube was an actress named Lauren Francesca. Oh, yeah, I know her.

She had a little cameo in one of my films and I was pretty friendly with her for a couple of years there. We did a lot. I wrote and directed and co-starred in a bunch of videos for her. But I found what I think the key to her success was.

was that she understood YouTube better than I know, better than anybody I know. Like, and she would show me the science of it and the keywords and this and that. So it's two things, you know, do you have the content and do you know how to market yourself? And I made a film that should have gone, I think gangbusters on YouTube, like, cause it was sort of made for YouTube and it did okay. Like people really seem to respond to it, but

Not that many people have really seen it overall. And it's because I don't understand YouTube that well. Look up Piggyzilla, P-I-G-G-Y-Z-I-L-L-A. Do you like Godzilla? Do you like guinea pigs? Piggyzilla. And it's, you know, like a bunch of two-minute shorts. And I thought it would be more of a hit on YouTube because it's sort of made for it. It's short, silly. It's got animals, so...

I'm going to link that in the show notes, by the way, Dave. I actually just looked that up real quick. So I will link to that in the show notes, everybody. So we can all check out Piggyzilla. But no, but the but like I understand what you mean about like stuff like that. Because I actually, you know, I've got more to YouTube. I actually have a friend of mine who who runs one of the top YouTube channels. Not like it's like the top one percentile. And unfortunately, he doesn't do much with it anymore.

And I've always said, give it to somebody who could actually use it. And he just won't give it up. I mean, it just kind of sits there rotting away, which is... How often does he post videos? Not very often at all. And by that, I mean probably...

once every six months at most. And I mean, like, I'll tell, I mean, honestly, I've had him on the podcast and, and we actually talked about that and it's kind of like this where, you know, he, he wants to, he wants to make content for it, but he wants to be a certain kind of content. And it's just, it takes time to make that content. And then it's just, it's everything sort of keeps going into the back burner. So it's one of those situations. And, um,

But I keep telling him, I said, you know, you could be making a pretty good amount of money every month from this thing if it was just constantly have being a monster. Of course, there are people who make livings off of YouTube and make pretty good livings off YouTube. And that's like to me, unfathomable, but it can be done, you know. So by all means, to tell you the truth, the advantage of doing the Troma Now podcast instead of the Dave Canfield podcast is that

I come out on their channel and they already have a built-in fan base and I know their content and I like them personally. So teaming with somebody who's already established themselves and giving them product that they like is always a win-win. Yeah. And also, too, when you do the Troma Now podcast, it's branding. And honestly, that's so important because people know what Troma is online.

Maybe I would go back and I'd change the name of this podcast because guys like Alex Ferrari who have the Indie Film Hustle podcast, Indie Film Hustle just kind of rolls off the tongue and you kind of envision what it is. You hear my name, you hear this podcast, you're like, who the hell is Dave Bullis? And then two, I don't even care who he is. It's the reverse. It's almost like that guy just made...

Once you've done a podcast with a brand name, then you've got your own name. Because what would Lloyd be without Troma? Troma came and then people knew Lloyd. So it's sort of like you have to come up with a brand name and then you get known for your brand name. Where were you three years ago when I was doing this?

Call it Bullets. Your name sounds like bullets, right? You got to use bullets. Film bullet. Film. It's just something bullet because you got a cool edge to your name. Oh, thank you.

Sure, absolutely. And yeah, we just have to, well, too late now, Dave, you got to stick to the Dave Bullis podcast. Yeah, I know. We're 100 and, well, actually we're over 200 episodes now. You're 198, but we've actually recorded the other couple. I'm a prequel? Yeah, you're actually, yeah, so through the magic of podcasting, you're actually the prequel to the sequel, which hasn't been released yet.

Wow. We're shooting at a sequence here. I like it. Yeah. Yeah. Just like a movie. We're shooting at a sequence. Oh, man. It's just, you know, and for everyone listening, you know, if you're going to start your own podcast, if I if I could just give you really quickly before we get to talking about, you know, Dave and all the stuff he's up to. I want to just say, if you're going to start a podcast, here's my recommendations for right now.

The name has to really be unique. The, the, the it has to roll off the tongue and, but it also has to do with so people can, when they hear it, it envisions what they're going to be listening to. The format has to be, you know, obviously around the, around an idea of what the core of this is going to be. And you can make it short. You can make it long. As long as it's always in tune with that idea. Yeah.

And I mean, there are some podcasts I listen to that are five minutes and it's like, that's exactly how long it should be. And there's podcasts that I've listened to that are, you know, an hour, hour and a half. And that's exactly how long that should have been because they're telling like a murder mystery. You know what I mean? Like there's story type podcasts where which have gotten pretty popular on like, you know, my American life and NPR and all that good stuff.

And then you have the other stuff. So always, you know, because I think the interview podcast, I think we've kind of reached like max interview podcast, even though this is an interview podcast. But like, you know, Mark Maron's WTF, Adam Carolla's, you know, Joe Rogan's podcast. I think that the more you can stand out, the better it is. But I think the reason you stand out, Dave, is, again, you have that unique angle, a

again unfair advantage of going with trauma and also you know you sound like a radio host like I said before the pre-interview thanks why thank you Dave maybe I should push it a little more and become the the exaggerated radio host but I was gonna say that when you talk about Marc Maron and a lot of these guys just gets got started on the when the when it was beginning when podcasts were really beginning they got in then if Marc Maron

If he tried to come out of nowhere right now, maybe he wouldn't have that luck. He probably wouldn't, to tell you the truth. So it has a lot to do with when he started. He sort of pioneered the, you could say, podcasting in general. So as one of the first, he thrived.

So it's almost like we have to see where the next evolution in media is going to be and get in on the ground level, which is what a lot of these guys did. They saw where the industry was going or at least took a gamble on it and got in at the right time. So now there's a million podcasts. Now there's a million podcasts. It's harder for us to stand out.

Yeah, very, very, very true, man. It is just getting in that ground floor than just dominating the industry or just dominating that niche. You know, when Marin started, it was just in its early days. And now he's up to about like over a thousand episodes. And, you know, the same thing with like Joe Rogan and Adam Carolla.

And that's why when a new podcast comes out, they usually have a ton of marketing money behind it. Like what some of these other podcasts that have done well are doing is because they just have a ton of marketing and they don't market to the traditional way. Cause again, that would be foolish. They are, they market specifically on social media. They market to, it's all direct marketing. It's no more, it's like there's hardly any permission based marketing anymore. And it's all basically, you know what I mean? So, so I want to tell you something that, uh,

my friend, Ethan Wiley, who he's a, he's a filmmaker. He's made a lot of fun films. You might've seen before. He made, made the house movies one and two. He made children, the corn five. He's done a lot of things.

And he told me the problem with hosting these things is that it's almost like having a billboard in the jungle. It's like you're surrounded. No one will see it. You know, no one will know it's there because there's so much around us. And it's hard in a world where we're, you know, one out of 10 people, I'll make it a guess. Well, like so many people have podcasts. How do you get seen?

I have another podcast that I do occasionally. I've done one episode called Production Hell, and that's all about the trials and tribulations of indie filmmaking, like really getting to the nightmare stories of what couldn't go wrong and what has gone wrong on film sets. I made one episode, and it's not even at 100 listens because there's nothing – I don't promote it, but it's nothing – no buzzwords that people are tapping into. People aren't finding it.

you know, therefore I stick with the Troma now podcast until, uh, until people really get a sense of, you know, my style and hopefully check out whatever else I do. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. I like that by the way, production hell that's, that is a, a really good, good idea for a podcast. It's on SoundCloud. Find the one episode. Hey,

It's almost like, you know what would be a good podcast is something like that where you have like two people who fell out during the filming of a film. Like the director, producer, or the two directors or whatever, and you bring them on there and you almost use it as kind of like a film court where each guy gets to tell his side of the story. That would be interesting, man, because there's a thousand and one things that I, you know what I mean? Like on film sets where I've had people drop, like friendships have ended.

have ended on a film set. You know, I've had people on this podcast where one has the audio, one has the video. You know, even, you know what I mean? Stuff like that. That would actually be cute. Yeah, I have, I have somebody I knew in college who pulled a knife on his production assistant or something. Like he, so things have, I think,

Things have gone down seriously wrong. Why did he pull a knife on him or her? It was her. To my understanding, there was a fight about and probably maybe it was an assistant director. So one was a director and the assistant director was probably saying that she's leaving. She doesn't think this makes sense. She doesn't want to do it anymore. And apparently this is bad. This is as bad as a film argument can go.

So there are countless stories about all of the things that can go wrong. And also I have countless stories about things that could have gone right if things were just have happened a little bit differently. Like,

I'll tell you this story and maybe I'll leave it at this. Years ago, I think when I was 19 and I dropped out of college, I'm making my own film. And a friend of mine is doing boom mic on a little indie film in New Jersey. And he's telling me he's got my script and he's pitching it. He's showing it to a couple of people on the set and they responded to it. I'm like, okay, cool, cool. And tells me about one actor who's

That sounds promising. I really think you'd be good in this role. But I'm talking to this other guy. He's not really big yet. I'm like, okay. But he seems to like the script so far. He says, wow, this is dark. I'm like, okay, tell me, who is he? Rent this film. And he had me rent this film that he had a little cameo in, a little comedy from Universal. Cool.

And I'm like, I don't know if this guy's really right for anything in this movie. He's like, totally. It's just a total disconnect. I don't... Yeah, don't worry about pursuing him. I don't think it's a good match. That actor's name was Ben Affleck. And...

I closed the door on Ben Affleck before he became Ben Affleck. And the film that they were shooting was Chasing Amy, the one that really defined him. And the film that I looked at from his was Mallrats. If you look at him in Mallrats, he's very particular. He's not at his best and he's not what he became. He's

He's fine, but you know, there was no role for him. So, I mean, what's the truth? I mean, if I said, yeah, this guy's great. I mean, it probably would have fallen apart anyway, because he would have gotten too big and like, you know, we would have lost touch. Like same thing that happened with my new line cinema experience. But, but still to think Ben Affleck was reading my stuff and saying, this is cool. I like it. And before he became famous is pretty funny.

Yeah, that's a door to close. You know, it's just funny with Mallrats. I remember that Kevin Smith told a story about Mallrats when he showed it to Rob Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino. And he said, you know, what do you guys think? And they were like, oh, you know, I think you went a little too much. I mean, he said both of them just kind of looked dejected. And then when he made Chasing Amy, he said both of them like, all right, now you found your mark again. Great. Good job. Yeah.

Yeah, one is like true Kevin Smith and the other one's sort of like Kevin Smith trying to appease the studio, you know, where you sort of lose your core, like lose your uniqueness, your distinctness. And, you know, it's great that he got to tell the truth. I think up the game, you know, from, you know,

Clerks was very raw and very true to Kevin's style and voice. And Mole Rats was sort of, I guess, diluted, sort of like, hey guys, you like this? And then Chasing Amy is kind of like a more mature, not that mature, but more mature version of his voice. And...

you know, you see, you know, terrific evolution. And I met Kevin Smith. It was the funniest, it was most bizarre circumstance because I really so badly wanted him to see a seat, like one of my Cesarado films, because he could think, wow, this is akin to Jane Silent Bob in their own way. Like, and, and, and so I had been trying to get in touch with him. I tried emailing, nothing worked, nothing worked. And one day I'm on a flight to California to do some reshoots on Cesarado's did the Xmas.

And I looked at my right and son of a bitch, he's coming out of the airport terminal. He's, he's, he's going through bag. He's going through, um, he's putting his, his stuff on a conveyor belt. I see a hockey Jersey, a beard and a baseball cap on backward. I'm like, that's fucking Kevin Smith. I've got some like, what do I do? And I had my, I had my summer camp massacre movie in my bag. Like,

Like, and I heard him recently talk about sleepaway camp, like on a podcast. And he was in my film, Summer Camp, Spoo Sleepaway Camp. It's got the actors from Sleepaway Camp. My good friend, Felisa Rose, she's, she's in there like, okay. So I wore a sachet over to him and I said, can I pay you a compliment? He's like, yeah, sure, man. I want you to know I, you're probably the best verbal storyteller I've ever heard in my life.

And he's like, oh, thanks, man. You know, I'm no Gene Shepard. He says, because, you know, I always thought that verbal storytelling is my best gift because God knows my films ain't worth a shit. Like, oh, my God, look at this modesty for a success story, a pure success story. And at one point I said to him,

And you like that film Sleepaway Camp, right? Remember that 80s slasher film? He says, yeah, Sleepaway Camp, the girl with the face. And I said, I made a spoof of that film. And I used the same actress. He said, no shit, man. I'm like, yeah, yeah. I have it in my bag. You want it?

sure, man. And I run over my bag. I'm like, Oh my God, I can't believe this is going so well. And I run over my bag and I, and I hand through him and it was just like, just released and shrink wrap. And, and I said, you know, like if you ever have a chance to see it, you know, just email me, let me know what you think. Ah, you know? And so we gave it to him a few weeks later. I, my friend tells me he hears on a podcast that he mentioned the whole interaction and on the SMOD cast, uh, the episode called cannabis, uh,

He's talking about how he was in an airport and ran into a guy because they were talking about sleepaway camp. He just retold the whole experience. I don't think he ever saw the movie because I later heard him say that people gave him stuff all the time. It goes into a pile of stuff he'll watch one day when he's sick.

So it's somewhere maybe in the middle of that pile. And by that point, you know, like, you know, you're always growing as a filmmaker. So it'd be like looking at somebody's early, really early work. So that's and incidentally, that film Summer Camp, which you can see on YouTube, like it was put on YouTube legally through the first distributor.

It was the first movie of an actor named Trey Byers. I cast him like I like this guy. It was an Italian role, but this actor is African-American. He's got great personality. He's got a great presence. Liked him a lot. Now Trey stars on Empire.

So I have this ability of casting people in their first role and they become famous and then I never talk to them again. Because Peter Scanovino, my first film, Dark Chamber, he stars on Law and Order now. So basically my films, my first two films, cast one of the stars of Law and Order and one of the stars of Empire. And I'm still a nobody. Yeah.

Well, there you go. You find people who are going to become big. So that's that's your gift, Dave. So that way I want to encourage every actor now just to shoot you their headshot and everything else. And then you can find out. No, I'm just kidding. But no, no, but seriously, that is cool, though. You see, you meet people for they become big.

And you can't see it again because we're on a podcast, but I actually have a Kevin Smith, um, fig, a podcast figure. I actually saw it, uh, one day it was like on sale and I decided to get it. So it was actually him with the beard. It says puck you on there and he's got a microphone in his hand. And, uh, it's actually just sits in front of my desk here. It's one of my three figures in front of me, but, um, it's just really, really cool. You got to meet him like that.

Yeah. I mean, it was almost like – I would say it's divine intervention except for nothing came out of it. But he did mention it on the podcast. So it was a little gift from heaven, you could say. So was there anything else that you wanted to touch on regarding – because I know like if you really talk to somebody, it's a podcast that goes on forever and people don't have the patience for that. But was there anything that –

Is that else you were interested in terms of what I was up to? Well, just, you know, well, two things. I know we are running out of time, but just two things before we sort of say goodbye. Just creating, you know, Cesar and Otto and just making films that you do right now.

You know, how, you know, so basically, you know, you had to have a timeframe, you had to have all this stuff in play. So, you know, were a lot of these films, you know, when you were starting out, did you do self-finance like the first couple of Cesar and Otto's and then you shot it and then you just started shopping for a distributor? And I mean, now do you have like sort of like a set plan in place? Like they come, they say, hey, Dave, you know, are you making something else that we can just put, you know, just put out? The first Cesar and Otto film came about this way.

We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show. So when Chakaroma released Dark Chamber, Mike Rosso, the head of the company, asked if I had anything else that I was working on. And I said, I had this film, Awaken the Reaper. And he said, no, that sounds serious. I want a comedy horror. And I said, it all occurred to me.

I had made a $700 feature film called Caesar and Otto, and it was just about us two doofball characters. And I was instantaneously imagined like an avid Custodian of Mead Frankenstein. What if I put them in a horror film?

Okay. So, and then I was spitballing right off the top of my head. I said, Mike, what about, you know, Cesar Anato in a horror film? Maybe like a summer camp film. You know, I know the star Sleepaway Camp. Maybe I can talk her into this. And it's, you know, Cesar Anato in a summer camp massacre. And he says, right. I took 30 days. I wrote it. And they approved it.

They gave me a little bit of money to make it. And then by the time that it was made, like I showed them a rough cut. We love this. And then by the time it was to release it, like the, it was the DVD implosion where everything they were selling was less and less, especially comedies.

And by the time they were releasing it, it was like, Dave, the whole market's falling apart. They had released a few comedies back to back and they all lost money. It says, so I don't know really what we're going to do with this. We might shelve it for now, put it on a compilation DVD. Like, here's your money back. I'm going to find another home. And that's what we did. I found another home for it. It did better than Chakram would have anticipated. Yeah.

And then from that distributor, I went to another one we did in Deadly Xmas, which was financed between a friend of mine and I. And then lastly, with Paranormal Halloween, it was mostly funded through Indiegogo. And at that point, there had been enough traction from previous films to give the audience an idea of what they were going to get. And I offered a lot of perks that I think they enjoyed,

And that helped as well. Yeah. And that's kind of, you know, again, like you sort of touched on the beginning of this podcast. You have that that that is almost like a method or plan in place where, you know, you can do the podcast, you get your name out there still and then you're still doing the films. And I think that's important now.

is you have to have almost like a pre-existing fan base, you know what I mean? With a lot of this stuff now, because if you just go out cold, it's a lot harder to not only make people aware of it, but also just to sort of get the attention of the right people. Well, my fan base is small but intense. I mean, I can rattle them off on two hands, you know, like name by name. But it's...

It's helpful. It's very helpful that they're out there to champion this stuff. Without them, I probably wouldn't be able to do any of this, really. It's like they say, a thousand true fans. That's all you need. Well, it's a lot less than that. Maybe one day. Maybe one day a thousand would be good.

So, Dave, just in closing, I know we've been talking for about 50 minutes now, but just in closing, is there anything we need a chance to discuss or anything that you want to say right now just to put a period at the end of this whole conversation? Follow me on Twitter. I'm going to be doing an interview with Lloyd coming up. So if you have a question you would like me to ask Lloyd, you know, at me and I'll hopefully bring it up. And yeah, just, you know, you can see my

My work at IMDB, get an idea of what I worked on. If you have any questions, you know, anybody get it be up on Facebook. I'm always receptive to answering questions and all of that. And I will link to all that in the show notes, everybody, everything that Dave and I talked about at Dave Bullis.com Twitter. It's at Dave underscore Bullis. The podcast is at DB podcast, David Canfield. I want to say thank you so much for coming on, man.

Red last thing. You called me David Canfield. Oh, wait, did I say David? Oh, man. No, no, that's not a problem. But get this. It's an uncommon name, clearly. David Canfield, Dave Canfield. These are not everyday names, not John Smith. There's another David Canfield out there.

Who wants to be an actor? Son of a bitch. Both of us want to be actors. Both of us are actors. He was in movies. I was in movies. And it's very confusing. So if you IMDb David Canfield, you get him. You IMDb Dave Canfield, you get me. And when it comes to unions, it gets even more confusing. All right, you can take David. I can take Dave. So there's another David Canfield out there. And he's an actor of all things. I can't believe it.

So, yeah, we're friends with each other. Oh, that's good because there's another Dave Bullis out there. And he actually has a Twitter, Dave Bullis, because my Twitter is at Dave underscore Bullis.

So I said to him one day, I said, hi, I'm Dave. And I said, listen, I think it'd be better for you if we just kind of like swap Twitter names. And I said, you know, if there's something I could do to help you out, I said, because people were killing him. They were tweeting him all the time. And finally he, you know, he finally responded back. Like, I'm not that Dave Bull. It's this guy, blah, blah, blah. And finally he blocked me one day. And I said, like, I tried to help you out here, man. Like he had like 20 followers online.

Now he doesn't even use Twitter anymore. But yeah, he ended up blocking me all because he got angry. People were tweeting at him looking for me. Well, that's an impractical response. There's at least 1% of the population that's completely unreasonable. So he's one of those. So wonderful talking to you, fellow Dave in podcasting. Yeah, man. It's the best.

Hopefully we'll be speaking again. I'm sure we will, man. Trust me. I'm sure our paths will cross at some point. Where are you from, by the way? What state? I'm in Philadelphia, which is Pennsylvania.

Well, not too far. You know, I just edited a commercial for the Philadelphia Pet Expo. So coming up, you'll be able to see dogs and cats living together in Massisteria. So actually, no, seriously, I do some part-time editing on the side and editing the Philadelphia Pet Expo. It's one of my gigs. That's the fun thing about being a freelancer. Are you in Jersey? No, I'm on Long Island. Oh, Long Island. Okay, cool.

So it is not snowing where you are probably. No, you can let me know how it is. Oh, how it's snowing? No, I just, as I said, I'm not kidding when I said I haven't looked out the window today. Oh, it's no problem. It's actually just stopped. Actually, during this podcast, the snow has actually stopped. It's not doing anything anymore. So probably don't go away. But I've already been outside many times already just to push it all out of the way. So.

I'm going to go do that now. So anyways, just to get the rest of it out of here. So Dave, again, it's been a blast. And thanks again for coming on. And yeah, well, I'm sure we'll talk soon.

I want to thank Dave so much for doing such a great job on this episode. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at indiefilmhustle.com forward slash 807. And if you haven't already, please head over to filmmakingpodcast.com, subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It really helps us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much for listening, guys. As always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive. Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.

Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at IndieFilmHustle.com. That's I-N-D-I-E-F-I-L-M-H-U-S-T-L-E.com.