Episode 365: Men’s Anxiety Around Sex and Dating
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You're listening to the Sex and Psychology Podcast, the sex ed you never got in school and won't get anywhere else. I am your host, Dr. Justin Leigh Miller. I am a social psychologist and research fellow at the Kinsey Institute and author of the book, Tell Me What You Want, The Science of Sexual Desire and How It Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life. Performance anxiety is one of men's most common sexual concerns. In fact, surveys estimate that up to 25% of men experience sexual performance anxiety.

But performance anxiety isn't the only form of anxiety that affects men in the bedroom. A lot of men also have anxiety about things like their body image and masculinity. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. We're going to do a deep dive into men's anxiety around sex and relationships. Some of the topics we'll explore include how to deal with sexual performance anxiety, how to be present during sex and release yourself from anxious thoughts,

how to navigate conflicting messages around modern masculinity, as well as dealing with anxiety around consent and how to avoid misinterpreting a partner's sexual cues or signals. I am joined once again by David Kalili, a licensed marriage and family therapist, board-certified sexologist, and founder of Rouse Relational Wellness, a boutique couples and sex therapy center in San Francisco.

He is author of the Mental Health Workbook for Men and Sex Warriors, a mindfully queer guide for men's anxiety to sex and dating. This is going to be another fascinating and informative conversation. Stick around and we're going to jump in right after the break.

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Okay, David, let's talk about men's anxiety around sex and dating and how to deal with it. So as a starting point, since you're a sex therapist, please tell us a little bit about how anxiety comes up for the male clients that you're seeing and further how this manifests in their sex and romantic lives.

Yeah, so the way that I see how anxiety impacts men's relationships to themselves and to sex and sexuality is, you know, first would be the physical, you know, is my penis going to work? Will I have an erection? Will it last long enough? Will I have an orgasm?

Do I look hot enough? That's definitely in the gay and queer community, but also in the straight community as well. You know, the body image, the ozempic usage. We actually have a local doctor coming to talk to our team next week to talk about ozempic usage in the gay community. So, you know, does my penis work? Do I look hot enough? Anxiety also in terms of relationships, you know, will I find that partner or am I good enough? Am I hot enough to find a partner? Am I worthwhile enough?

which then can show up when they're having sex, where they're kind of in their head about that and they're not being so present. Anxiety also can increase boundary violations regardless of gender, but I think more so for men given also the other pressure that they can internalize.

So when someone's anxious and they're having sex or they're, you know, they're being sexual with a partner, if they're anxious, they're usually like in their head and they're very internal. They're kind of like a floating head. Right. And they're not so aware of their surroundings, including themselves. If their concern is I'm not going to come.

they're just going to be focused on that. And then they're not going to be focused on any of their own boundaries or probably, or more so their partner's boundaries. And so what I've heard and seen is this kind of boundary violation that can happen when there's so much focus on performance or a goal as it were. The other piece around anxiety and sex that I've seen is the relational aspect of how does the partner respond to their sexual issues or sexual concerns?

Have they internalized it too? You know, they say, well, I'm not hot enough for my partner and that's why they're not performing well. And then that can just compound it and lead to a whole bunch of other issues. Yeah. So it sounds like anxiety shows up in a lot of ways in men's sexual and romantic lives. And, you know, I think you make a really important point there about

One of the negative effects of anxiety being that it can lead to boundary violations because it leads you to get stuck in your head and to not be paying as much attention to the situation. And so you can easily cross lines for yourself or for your partner that you wouldn't otherwise do if you weren't distracted in that way by the anxiety. And so, yeah, I think that's a key but under-recognized aspect of how anxiety can impact people sexually in the bedroom.

And, you know, you mentioned body image there, which I think is a really important piece of men's body anxiety. I mean, we hear a lot in the media for years, we've heard a lot about how body image issues affect women, not so much about how they impact men. And I think we just

haven't really talked about it when it's an issue that's kind of always been there. I know it's especially acute in the queer community, but a lot of heterosexual men today seem to be having body image issues. And I think it's an issue that's actually on the rise because if you look at social media and you look at discussions around what

today is referred to as looks maxing, right? Where there's this idea that you sort of need to maximize your physical appearance in order to attract a mate or a partner. This is something that we're seeing a lot in the heterosexual community among men, like where they are trying to have a certain body type or alter their facial appearance or their hairstyle or whatever it is just to sort of get that

ultra-masculine appearance that's going to attract a potential partner. So yeah, it's something that increasingly seems to be a big source of anxiety for men.

Mm-hmm. I just wrote down looks maxing. And then you unlocked a memory of like this 90s MTV documentary that I watched, documentary about plastic surgery. And I think a guy had calf implants. Oh my God. I totally remember this episode. Yeah. And I was on a, like a tirade for months after that episode came out because I was just so fascinated by

And the poor guy was so focused on that. And it was like it was going to really cure him. And I think, you know, looking at the incoming administration and like what is getting really highlighted with the Elon Musk's and things like that, I think it's really going to up the, you know, I've seen a rise in steroid usage. I'm not sure about the stats, but I'm sure it is higher. And it's something that we need to really focus on or have some awareness on.

Yeah, I totally remember that episode about the gap implants. Like this guy, he was a really good looking guy. And, you know, he said that everything in his life was perfect and he was really happy with his body. It was just his skinny calves. And yeah, he totally thought that if he just got these calf implants, that it would change everything and he'd be perfect. And, you know, that's what everybody who goes and gets plastic surgery says. They're like, if I can fix just this one little thing about myself, my life will be perfect.

And unfortunately, it rarely turns out that way, where if you have that one little adjustment that you make to your body, that you're suddenly then satisfied and happy. All too often, it leads to this progression, this cascade of you make one change, and then suddenly it's like,

no, now I need to make this other change. And then next thing you know, you've had multiple surgeries or you've done lots of things to alter your appearance. And, you know, it's just a broader sign or symptom of body anxiety. And, you know, it's something that can impact people regardless of their gender or sexual orientation. It's an anxiety that's very much cultivated by society in terms of what it tells us

is the standard of attractiveness for people of our particular sex or gender. And then that starts to lead us to overanalyze our own appearance and think that, well, it's because I don't have this one thing or I'm lacking in this one way. And that's why I'm not considered attractive and then why I can't find a partner. So I just need to change this. And then suddenly everything will work out. And yeah, it's just this unhealthy cycle that so many of us get into that I think is fueled so much by media and social media. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I fell into that trap. And I love my tattoos, but that definitely was a part of, you know, I got this one tattoo and I was like, oh, and if I get this other one, then it's going to really complete it. And then this other one, and then...

My 20s was filled with that. Yeah, I don't know anybody who has just one tattoo. Yeah, exactly. The rare person has just one tattoo. So one form of anxiety that a lot of men have in the bedroom, and you brought this up a little earlier, is related to the relationship that they have with their penis. So a lot of men have the experience of feeling, quote unquote, betrayed.

by their penis because it didn't do what they wanted it to do in a given moment. And that often leads to persistent anxiety that the same thing is going to happen again in the future, which can quickly spiral into a self-fulfilling prophecy because your worry about losing an erection can actually lead to erection loss because you're perseverating on it, right? And you're almost willing it to happen. So if this is a source of anxiety for someone, I

How do you deal with that? You know, what are some things that you can do to kind of cope with performance anxiety? Absolutely. Yeah. So one thing I would talk to guys about that are dealing with this is to help them identify like what is the foreplay that they like and enjoy and what is what's their normal script that they follow? Because a lot of us, you know, fall into the sexual script.

especially in long-term relationships. But if you have a sexual script about providing something for your new partner or blowing them away with your skills, kind of trying to identify what parts of the script are working against you, what are their expectations around sex?

do they have that expectation again, that they kind of give orgasms away? And like Dr. Kate and I get naked with Dr. Kate told me, you know, it's like, as if the partners have no subjectivity whatsoever, they just kind of,

give it away. There's a lot of really great strategies for preventing it or leading up to it. The kind of different things that you can say to yourself or the different ways that you can coach yourself in the moment is a bit harder because it's not like you can do four second breathing, box breathing. You could, you can be a little tantric about it and take a pause. But I would say talking about it first, like naming it does wonders, right? Just saying like, oh, I'm a little nervous right now. Again, depending on your partner, depending on the delivery,

depending on if you expect them to do something about it or to just be aware of it. But I would say just to name it in a way of just bringing it to awareness and not putting the responsibility on either one of you. Because of the hyper-focus that you just mentioned and being really in your head about it, I've recommended trying to engage one of your five senses with

towards the other person or people. And so you're going to touch their hair and just focus on what their hair is like between your fingertips, or you're going to smell their neck and just focus on the smell of their neck. And so again, it's just kind of, rather than saying, don't think about your dick, don't think about your dick, don't think about your dick. It's bringing your attention to something other than that, but also outside of you.

Yeah, that has me thinking about the famous studies on thought suppression, like the don't think about a white bear, right? So when people are told, don't think about something when you try to suppress a thought, it ends up having this paradoxical rebound effect of making you essentially obsess over it. And you think about it even more because you're actively trying to suppress it. It's this ironic rebound effect. And so, yeah, a better way of dealing with

Something like that is to try and reorient yourself, refocus your attention, as opposed to directly engaging in thought suppression. And something else that you mentioned in your work is the idea of this wax and wane technique. So yeah, I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, the wax and wane can be really helpful for both the person that's experiencing erectile dysfunction and for their partner. And you can do this by yourself or with a partner. What it does is it shows you that just because your erection went down or goes away doesn't mean that it will never show up again. And I know we all logically know this.

But to have that emotional or visceral experience of like, oh, look, it's coming back up again, can be really reassuring to both partners or to all partners. And so what it is, is it's kind of like edging in a way where you're masturbating to the point of getting an erection and then you let go. And as the book says, and as where I learned, it says, allow the penis to deflate. I like that term. And then you masturbate again and you bring it all the way up.

and let go and you repeat. And again, you're not working towards orgasm, you're not working towards getting yourself to the point of no return. You're just showing yourself that you can get hard and get soft and get hard again. And then it also helps you identify like what it feels like in your body. The other practice in that book is also the body scan masturbation technique.

Where it's like a body scan meditation, but you're also masturbating during that time and you're caressing yourself and you're touching yourself and you're really slowing down and identifying what parts of your body respond to different types of touch. Again, trying to expand the focus from the penis. Mm-hmm.

So let's talk about masculinity anxiety for a moment, because that can impact both sex and dating. So men today are getting a lot of conflicting messages around masculinity. So on the one hand, you have the so-called manosphere, which has a very big following and is promoting very traditional ideas of masculinity.

And at the same time, you've got what I guess you could call the anti-manosphere, which talks about traditional notions of masculinity as being toxic and harmful. And the end result is that guys are hearing that they need to be tough and strong and dominant on the one hand, while also hearing that they need to be vulnerable and emotionally available.

And that can create some anxiety around how they're supposed to show up in intimate contexts. You know, a lot of men struggle with this, for example, in online dating in terms of how they present themselves and describe themselves. You know, some try to strike a balance between being intimate.

masculine and also being, you know, emotionally available. And it's not to say that those two things can't go together. It depends on your definition of masculinity, right? But I think a lot of people just kind of don't know how to navigate this situation because you have so many people who are saying, this is what our version of masculinity looks like. And then another group of people saying, this is what masculinity should look like. So I don't know. How do you navigate all this?

When I talk to others about this, I think about... So before going into psychology, I got my master's degree in sexuality studies at San Francisco State University. And

That really helped a lot with my work as a sex therapist because it really forced me and helped me look through different lenses, especially with queer theory and critical race theory. So, you know, I think about performativity when we talk about this and like, you know, there is a part of performativity that we have when we're dating. You know, there's like a peacocking to kind of harken back to the 1990s dating guys, you

But there is some, you know, we want to put on the best parts of ourselves, but I think it's also helping them identify like, well, what does masculinity mean to you? What version of masculinity does apply to you? You know, there's an exercise called male messages where they write down all the messages they received growing up about what it means to be a boy, to be a man.

And then they separate it out with these are the ones that I want to keep, these are the ones I want to get rid of, and these are the ones that I want to think about. And I didn't do it where they just get rid of all of them because I don't want to treat it as all bad, but what parts of it actually speak to you? And I think that that also helps with kind of a success in relationships. Like if you're trying to present yourself as the type of masculinity that you're not,

and your partner is looking for that type and you're not actually that, then it's going to show up later. And it doesn't mean that that relationship is doomed, but there's going to be some false premises that were built up in that way. So I think it's like, yeah, finding your tribe, finding your community and finding a way that masculinity feels good to you and knowing that like you can change it. You know, you can adapt the way that you present your gender, that you relate to your gender.

Yeah, so it sounds like cafeteria masculinity is kind of the way to go, right? You sort of pick and choose the elements that resonate with you, as opposed to subscribing to someone else's arbitrary definition of it. Yeah. Yeah, and I think when it comes to masculinity, it is this big struggle, this big challenge, because...

all these different people are telling us to fit a certain mold. And especially in the world of social media, I think it's important for people to be very wary of people who are pushing these messages that say, if you just do these things to be more masculine, that that's going to fix all the problems in your life, that you're going to get the job that you want, and you're going to get the partner that you want, and that everything is just going to fall in place.

A lot of these people are just trying to sell you snake oil with a lot of this stuff. And I know that on the surface, a lot of it might seem to have scientific backing. I know that so much of what is sold and packaged on social media these days about these discussions of masculinity is based in evolutionary psychology. And I'm personally someone who subscribes to a lot of beliefs and ideas in evolutionary psychology that make sense. There is data and support.

for a lot of it. But I think they reduce it so much to just these very simplistic little life hacks that you can do that are going to guarantee you success in the world of sex and dating. And it just doesn't quite work that way.

Yeah. And then, you know, leads to so much frustration. I'm like, well, I did the thing, you know, and one of our therapists here, Colin Fife, he likes to refer to bell hooks quite a bit because she has such amazing work. And he talks about masculinity being something that's hard to gain and easy to lose. And I think that that's just like a setup for anyone if we're put in that sort of dynamic.

Yeah, and you're so right about the, you try it and then it doesn't work. And then where does that lead, right? It can actually leave you feeling worse off than you were before because maybe you invested a lot of time and money into doing something, but it can also lead down a path that's very counterproductive where let's say, all right, you work really hard to build some muscle mass.

to have a stronger, leaner body, but you're still not attracting the partners that you want. And so then that can lead to steroid use or and then increasing the amount that you're taking to try and get bigger and more jacked than you were, you know, just on this presumption that like, well, I'm just not big enough.

You know, I've seen this happen and things like this happen a lot of times and not just with steroids, but with other things too, where people just keep pushing it toward an extreme thinking that following this just further down the path is going to guarantee the outcome that I want. And unfortunately, it just doesn't work that way in most cases.

Yeah. So another area of anxiety for men around sex and dating is in the issue of consent. And I think men today increasingly realize the importance of consent, and many are worried about being accused of doing something non-consensual. But there's this anxiety around misinterpreting a partner's signals or cues or inadvertently crossing a boundary.

And how do you clearly communicate all of this without taking all the passion and fun out of it? So I was wondering if you had any tips you could share on healthy ways of approaching consent while also keeping consent sexy. Just to plug a colleague, Midori has a great podcast called Consent Dojo. It's a really fantastic one that really explores all these different aspects of consent. I like to talk about the wheel of consent. I really find that that breakdown of four different elements really helps out clients'

really decipher like how to engage with consent and that it's not just about you and it's not just about them, but it's about kind of the connection of all people. And so, you know, the, the wheel of consent says, what are you giving? That's for you. What are you taking? That's for you. What are you giving for your partner? And what are you taking? That's for your partner. And so it's acknowledging that like, you may enjoy giving a certain type of touch that your partner may not like, but you,

If they understand that you enjoy that touch and it's tolerable for them, they will accept it because they know that it's for your pleasure.

I also think that there's a way where you can add role-playing into some consent. If there's already that kind of established trust and safety and security, that you can kind of add a little taboo to it. You can do professor-student, you can do some sort of power exchange, power differential to keep it sexy and to keep it playful. It's kind of like the cafeteria method. What is it that attracts you? Some people will like that type of

dominance and submission role play and others will like something that's more cutesy and more that range. So finding the tone and delivery that works for the two of you. I think also, you know, talking about boundaries with consent and so that a no can absolutely be just a no and, you know, no is a complete sentence, but also you can say a no, but, you know, no, but, and this is Martha Cowpe talks about this around agreements within polyamory.

no, but a smaller suggestion or no, but a bigger suggestion, you know, that's different. And so that way it's not this kind of high stakes thing where you present this idea and if you get a no, then it means the end of sex or the end of any connection like that. But that there's, you know, you're building off of on it together that you've kind of created this atmosphere of collaboration.

Yeah, you know, and this is something that we all need to learn more about, right? Because consent is very poorly taught in most sex education. And, you know, it is something that

can be very sexy if done in the right way, right? And so it's all about learning like different things that sort of resonate with you in terms of how you want to communicate about it and how you want others to communicate about it with you. And it's not always verbal, right? There is also nonverbal consent, which can be a part of this. And actually, if you look at the research, nonverbal consent is actually the most common way in which people communicate about it. But

With nonverbal consent, there's also more inherent ambiguity where somebody might interpret your nonverbal cues in a way that's different from how you intended them, right? So nonverbal consent tends to work better in the context of a more established relationship with somebody who might have a better understanding of your sexual history and what your cues tend to mean. And I think the real paradox of consent in the modern world is that

It's easier to talk about sex usually with somebody that you've been in a relationship with for a certain amount of time as opposed to a new partner. And so it's easier to talk about consent later on than it is the first time you're going to have sex. And that's where it gets weird, right? Is that we need to be able to have those conversations with casual partners and people we don't have an established history with.

Yeah, I think that's a big thing that I really enjoy working on. And that I think it's important. It's just building up that comfort. Yeah, with just talking about sex. I think that's some of the best compliments I've received as a sex therapist is like, you've helped me feel more comfortable just talking about sex.

Yeah. And you know, I've said this many times before, many people find it easier to have sex than to talk about sex. And that goes to just how much anxiety there is around the topic of sex and how much shame and taboo and all these other things there are and how we need to address that to make it easier for people to have these conversations about sex. Because the more that sex is taboo, the harder it is for us to talk about any aspect of it, including consent.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for being here with us, David, and for sharing all of this great information. Can you please tell my listeners where they can go to learn more about you and your work? Absolutely. You can find out more about me at my practice's website, Rouse Relational Wellness. It's rousetherapy.com, R-O-U-S-E therapy. Also, Rouse Therapy on Instagram and TikTok. Great. I will be sure to include all of that in the show notes. So thank you again so much for your time. I really appreciate having you here. Thank you.

Thank you for listening. To keep up with new episodes of this podcast, visit my website, sexandpsychology at sexandpsychology.com or subscribe on your favorite platform where I hope you'll take a moment to rate and review the show. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, please consider becoming a Sex and Psychology Premium subscriber to enjoy ad-free listening for just $3.99 a month.

You can also follow me on social media for daily sex research updates. I'm on Blue Sky and X at Justin Laymiller and Instagram at Justin J. Laymiller. Also, be sure to check out my book, Tell Me What You Want. Thanks again for listening. Until next time.