Episode 384: Can You Be Gay And Monogamous?
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You're listening to the Sex and Psychology Podcast, the sex ed you never got in school and won't get anywhere else. I am your host, Dr. Justin A. Miller. I am a social psychologist and research fellow at the Kinsey Institute and author of the book, Tell Me What You Want, The Science of Sexual Desire and How It Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life.

Over the years, I've heard a number of my gay male friends say that they don't think monogamy ever works. They seem to be under the impression that it's just not realistic for gay guys to be content with just one sexual partner for the rest of their lives, that there's too much temptation out there, and that infidelity is bound to happen at some point.

At the same time, however, I have a lot of other friends who have told me that they don't think non-monogamy ever works. They say it always gets complicated, that someone inevitably breaks the rules or gets jealous, and that they eventually meet someone they would rather be in a relationship with. People clearly have a lot of strong feelings about both monogamy and non-monogamy in the gay community. But what's the truth here? Can you be gay and monogamous? And how well do non-monogamous relationships work out?

That's what we're going to be discussing today. We're going to do a deep dive into gay men's relationships and talk about how to know what type of relationship structure is right for you, tips for navigating both monogamy and non-monogamy successfully, whether you need to have a period of monogamy first before opening up a relationship, as well as the key ingredients to include in any relationship agreement. I am joined by Tom Brewett, a licensed marriage and family therapist, trainer, consultant, and author who works extensively with the queer community.

He is the founder of the Queer Relationship Institute, which provides therapy for queer folks and training for therapists who work with queer relationships. He is the author of the new book, The Go-To Relationship Guide for Gay Men: From Honeymoon to Lasting Commitment. This is going to be another amazing conversation. Before we get to it, here is today's Level Up Your Love Life segment presented by Masterclass. With Masterclass, you can learn from the best to become your best.

Masterclass recently launched the Art of Sex Appeal class featuring Shan Boodram as the instructor. This class aims to teach you how to flirt better and attract the person you're looking for, how to create deeper emotional intimacy and meaningful connections, sexual positions and techniques for more fulfilling sex, and so much more. I love this class and I think you're going to get a lot out of it. In our Level Up Your Love Life segments, we're going to highlight key lessons from the class that can help you in cultivating hotter and healthier sex lives.

Today, we're diving into the topic of keeping passion alive in long-term relationships, which is relevant to today's show because whether you're monogamous or consensually non-monogamous, this is an issue that a lot of people struggle with. All right, let's dive in. So, Shan offers a number of great tips in her class for keeping passion alive, but I wanted to build on that a bit by talking about what the science says about keeping the spark going in your relationship.

One of my favorite studies to talk about is a survey conducted by Dr. David Frederick, a former guest on this show, who published some data on a sample of nearly 40,000 people in relationships. He found that there were really five key differences between people who said that they were able to keep passion going and those who weren't. People who kept the spark alive were more likely to one, spend time setting the mood, right? So taking some time to create some ambiance before sex is really important.

2. Practice sexual communication, which we all know is very, very important. 3. Receive oral sex, right? So it turns out oral sex is very important to keeping the spark alive. 4. Be happier with their relationship in general, right? So your relationship kind of needs to be in a good place if you're going to keep the spark going. And 5. Engage in more acts of sexual variety. While there's a lot to be said about each of these factors, I want to focus on one of them here, which is the role of sexual variety.

As I've said many times before, we have a tendency to grow tired of sexual routines and that sexual novelties can be a way of reawakening our sexual interest.

So this is supported by the concept of the Coolidge effect in sexuality, right? The Coolidge effect is this idea that we tend to experience a habituation or reduction in arousal over time to the same sexual stimulus. So for example, if you have people watch the same porn clip every day for a week and you measure their genital arousal each time, what we see in the research is that their arousal tends to go down on each subsequent viewing.

But if you show them a new porn clip featuring new performers and new activities taking place, their arousal skyrockets, right? So novelty is really the key to breaking that reduction in sexual arousal that happens when sex starts to become routine.

But novelty offers benefits beyond this. It isn't just helpful in combating the Coolidge effect. It also helps us in meeting our needs for self-expansion. So as human beings, we have a need to continually grow our sense of self over time. And one of the key ways that we do this is by trying new activities and having relationships with other people. So novelty is also crucial when it comes to meeting those needs for self-expansion.

One other benefit of novelty is that it can create more immersive sexual experiences that really draw you in and allow you to be present and in the moment, right? When we try new things, that has a way of capturing and refocusing our attention. So novelty has a heck of a lot of benefits, and that's why it's one of the key factors involved in maintaining passion and arousal over time in relationships. So what are some good ways that people in any kind of relationship can add some novelty and variety to their sex lives?

Well, a great place to start is to look at what the most sexually satisfied people in relationships are already doing. So in Dave's research, we see 17 different acts of sexual variety and how they differed between sexually satisfied and dissatisfied men and women. Across the board, sexually satisfied folks were adding variety to their sex lives in all kinds of ways. Some of these differences included that satisfied partners were more likely to both give and receive back rubs and massages, to wear sexy underwear or lingerie,

to take showers or baths together, to have date nights, to try new sexual positions, to go on romantic getaways, to use sex toys together, watch porn together, talk about and act on their sexual fantasies, incorporate foods like whipped cream into sex, try some light kink like spankings or using restraints, and filming yourself having sex.

Now, you don't necessarily have to try all of these things in your own personal life. You know, this isn't a comprehensive list of all sexual possibilities either. It doesn't really matter so much what you're doing specifically as long as it's new for you. You know, that's really the key.

However, it's important to recognize that there are limits to what novelty can accomplish. You know, be advised that simply adding novelty or variety to your sex life doesn't guarantee that you're going to be happier in the end. If you have fundamental underlying problems in your relationship, novelty isn't necessarily what you need. In other words, it's important for your relationship to be in a good place and for you and your partner to have solid sexual communication before you take the leap and try adding more adventurous things to your sex life.

So be sure to work first on the relationship, make sure it's in a good place and that you have solid communication before you start adding in and trying new things. All right, that wraps up today's level of your love life segment presented by masterclass. A huge thank you to our friends over at masterclass for sponsoring this segment and helping us all to learn and grow. We have much more ahead on today's show. So stick around and we're going to jump in right after this short break.

Applications are now open for the next Human Sexuality Intensive course at the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University. This course takes an interdisciplinary, evidence-based approach to exploring foundational concepts in the study of human sexuality, as well as recent developments and research in the field. This course is relevant to professionals, academics, and individuals in any field where a foundational understanding of human sexuality is beneficial.

This course is open to both emerging and established professionals looking to specialize their knowledge, as well as those seeking new career directions. To learn more, visit KinseyInstitute.org and be sure to follow at Kinsey Institute on the socials. Hi, Tom, and welcome back to the show. Hi, I'm so happy to be here, Justin. Thanks for having me back.

Thanks so much for joining me. So you were on the show previously to tease your new book, The Go-To Relationship Guide for Gay Men. And I'm very excited that this book is finally out. So I'm happy to have you back on the show to dig even deeper into the topics that you discuss, because I feel like we barely scratched the surface last time. You know, there's so much that could be said about gay men and their relationships.

So in this episode, we're going to focus on relationship agreements among gay men. And we're going to start first by talking about monogamy and then transition into non-monogamy. And I think a good place to begin is to talk about some of the common myths and misconceptions about gay men and their relationships.

You know, so I've heard a ton of gay guys say that monogamy never works because infidelity is bound to happen. And it's kind of funny because I've also heard several gay men say that non-monogamy never works either because someone always gets jealous and it always gets messy. So let's start with the question of can you be gay and monogamous? Can it work?

I think it certainly can work. I mean, I think any kind of relationship structure can work. I think it's really important that people are honest with each other when they're deciding what kind of relationship structure they want to be in. And, you know, there are definitely lots of people who have very strong opinions about this topic. It is definitely one of those third rail topics.

It absolutely is. And, you know, I totally agree with you that, you know, whether you want to be monogamous or non-monogamous, it can work, but different people might be suited to different types of relationships. And we need to be honest with ourselves and with our partners about what it is that we really want.

And, you know, there's actually some interesting neuroscience research that suggests that different people might be wired for different types of relationships, right? My friend Lisa Dawn Hamilton, who has been on the show previously, has done some neuroscience work in this area, finding that the brains of monogamous and non-monogamous men respond differently to sexual stimuli. And so there could actually be some kind of neuroscience explanation behind this.

But short of doing a brain scan to figure out what style of relationship is right for you, how do you know if monogamy is right or if you're better suited to non-monogamy? And I think this is a really important question to ask because a lot of gay men feel pressure to be one way or the other. Some gay men want monogamy because that's what's right for them. But for others, it's what they think they want, perhaps because they don't realize there are other options for how to structure a relationship.

Or maybe it even stems in some cases from internalized homophobia. You know, some gay men feel a sense of shame around their sexuality and they see monogamy and conforming to a traditional heterosexual relationship script as a way of kind of offsetting that. It's kind of like they feel like they have something to

prove, like they want to show their family and society that their relationship is quote unquote normal. So there can be pressure to pursue monogamy, but at the same time, there can also be pressure to pursue non-monogamy. You know, you might be part of a social network where it seems like everybody's looking for an open relationship, or maybe that's what everybody that you meet seems to be looking for. So how do you figure out what type of relationship is best for you without succumbing to all of this pressure to fit a certain mold?

I think you described it so beautifully. And one of the things is that I think it takes a lot of courage. We live in a society that is incredibly heteronormative, where you use the term a lot, the relationship escalator, that we are on that from a very young age before we even begin to start actually coming into ourselves or our identities. And so actually teasing apart whether you want to be in a monogamous relationship or not, even just that simple act, it takes so much courage and

And so if you are able to really do that kind of inner work and tease apart, do I want monogamy? Do I not want monogamy? If you can get that far, then I think you have to be really honest and trust what your inner world is saying. I've certainly worked with several men who they just, they just can't get over the jealousy thing. Their mind tells them, I know I shouldn't be jealous, but they still are. Their body doesn't allow them to not, not move through that. And

And so I think you're right. I think that makes a lot of sense to me that there are some people that one style of relationship structure works really well for them, but they could not fit into another type of relationship structure.

Yeah, you know, it's so true that some people are kind of like fighting against themselves when it comes to the type of relationship that's right for them. They're pursuing something that maybe just doesn't align with how they operate and function within relationships. You know, I've seen this before where some people pursue consensual non-monogamy, but it always falls apart because like you said, sometimes they just always get jealous. And so you kind of have to really know yourself.

And, you know, it can be sometimes hard to know yourself until you've tried or explored or experimented with some different things. Like, could non-monogamy work for you? Well, how are you going to know unless you give it a try? And, you know, there's no harm in trying it. You know, maybe it'll work out, maybe it won't. And maybe you'll need to try it a few times. Like, I think with any type of relationship, a little bit of practice makes perfect.

I agree with you 100%. And there is literally nothing to lose by trying it out. I mean, yes, some people are worried that their relationship won't last through an exploration with non-monogamy. But if that doesn't work, then maybe that relationship isn't the best one for you in the long term anyway. Every relationship ends, whether unfortunately through death or through some other way. And so I think we have to just accept that that's a potential possibility.

Yeah. And I think sitting down and getting clarity on what you want and what you need in your relationship is really important. But, you know, sometimes it can be hard to know, to anticipate how we're going to feel in some of these future situations. And, you know, for a lot of people, the idea of non-monogamy sounds tantalizing, but then they try it and they're like,

whoa, this is not what I thought it would be at all. Right. So again, like sometimes we can't know until we're actually in that situation, but yeah, it all starts with kind of getting some clarity on what do you want and need and how do you think you're going to be able to best show up in a relationship? And it's okay if, you know, monogamy is what you want. It's okay if non-monogamy is what you want. It's about, you know, knowing yourself and being honest and communicating about that with your partners. Yeah.

So let's say that monogamy is right for you. You know, it's what you want and it's not simply what you're doing because you think you're expected to do it. So what do gay men who want to be monogamous need to know? You know, do you have any tips or advice on making a monogamy agreement work?

There needs to be a level of trust that exists in a relationship. And so figuring out if you can really fully trust that your partner is actually being monogamous, because I've often heard lots of the stories, you know, there's that whole theory of the monogamy gap where more people in monogamous relationships end up cheating because it's, you know, they can't actually be honest about what they're craving or looking for. And so if you're in a relationship where you feel like you can fully trust the other person,

then you can start the really fun process of exploring. There's lots of fun that can be had in monogamous relationships. You can explore your erotic orientation. You can do lots of fantasy exploration, as you know in all the research that you've done. There's lots of possibility for a monogamous relationship to be expansive.

But if you're in a community where a lot of people are in non-monogamous relationships, it's going to be harder. There could be a lot of that pressure. There could be some temptation that exists. And so are you able to actually have transparent communication with your partner? Because if that's not there, I don't know that monogamy or non-monogamy stands a chance. Yeah.

Yeah, it's so true. And the trust and the communication piece are key no matter what type of relationship structure you have. But if you are going to be in a monogamous relationship, I think something that's really important is you can't just assume monogamy or assume that your partner has the same definition or understanding of it that you do, right? A lot of people...

never bothered to step back and talk about what does monogamy really mean in our relationship, right? So I think you need to define it and negotiate it. And that means also figuring out and identifying like what would infidelity mean in your relationship? Because all too often, and I'm sure you've seen this happen in your sex therapy office, you know, you might have people come in where one partner is accused of

committing infidelity, but they didn't know that what they did counted as infidelity, right? Because sometimes people just make these assumptions, they never define it or negotiate it and things can go off the rails, right?

Yeah, this isn't my question, but I do love Joe Court's question. Like, how do you define monogamy? Like, really? And I think all people, not just queer or gay men, need to really explore this because I see it in all different kinds of relationships that I see in my office where there is that, you know, oh, well, sending a message, a DM to my ex on Instagram, that's not cheating. Oh, one person thinks it is. Or, you know, I mean, the examples just go on and on and on.

Oh, I kissed an ex in a bar, but I was drunk. You really have to get really clear about what are your agreements and know that agreements change over time. Agreements have to be flexible. And like you were saying a little bit earlier, that sometimes we don't know that we have a limit until we encounter it. Sometimes we'll bump right up against it and we're like, I'm not doing that again. And so getting really clear about that for yourself is important.

Yeah, it is so, so important. And especially that point you said about how the agreement might change or evolve over time. You know, when you have this discussion about what monogamy means or what infidelity means, you probably can't think of every possible thing that would go into that right away, right? And sometimes it's going to be something unexpected that comes up. And

So instead of letting that turn into the thing that ends your relationship, use it as a learning experience. Like, okay, we've discovered a new boundary. Let's revise our agreement. Let's think about other things that need to go into this so that we can be on the same page going forward. But yeah, I mean, these agreements aren't static. They change because maybe what makes us feel comfortable or uncomfortable at one point, that might shift at some point down the road.

I think too, in monogamous gay relationships, you also need to recognize that you and your partner might change sexually over time. And you know, so many gay men get into relationships where they have very clearly defined sexual roles, like they might identify as a top and a bottom, and maybe those roles work for them in the beginning of their relationship, but then they don't.

But maybe the partner who likes to bottom or is the receptive partner in anal sex, like decides that, you know, that's no longer for them. It's no longer comfortable or pleasurable. And so what do you do in that situation when you've built a relationship around these like very clearly defined sexual roles? So I think, you know, having a willingness to be adaptable and flexible and explore new things is very important if you're pursuing monogamy because people change and evolve in their sexuality over time.

Yeah, I don't want to have only one kind of sex for the rest of my life. I personally would like to have a very expansive menu of things that I can explore over time. And I think we know that just in mental health in general, that the more flexibility and fluidity that people have in their sex lives, like the happier they're going to be, the more possibilities there will be in the long term.

Yeah, an expansive sexual menu is a good idea in any sexual relationship, but I think it is especially important in the context of monogamy. Having more options on the menu provides more ways to fulfill sexual gratification and be intimate, maybe at times when partners want or desire different things.

So what should you do if you want monogamy, but the person you're interested in or flirting with or dating or maybe you're already in a relationship with, maybe they want non-monogamy instead. I'm sure this is something that has come up in your practice. And I've also seen friends in this situation and it's gotten pretty complicated. They were able to make it work for a while, but eventually they realized they were just too far apart in terms of wanting very different things from their relationship. So tell us a little bit about what to do when you and your partner

want different relationship structures. And this is such a common thing. I see it in my office. I see it in my community. And I also see people make comments on social media posts that I do all the time about this. So this is, I know, a question that a lot of people have. Sure, it could be a deal breaker. It could be one of those line in the sand moments, non-monogamy or monogamy. There's also a possibility to learn more about each other through this dilemma. And

And if you are able to use differentiation, and that's a concept I talk about a lot in my book, differentiation kind of in a nutshell, being able to really go inside and know your thoughts, feelings, wants, wishes, and desires, and be able to tolerate the anxiety that can come up when your partner has different wants, feelings, wishes, desires.

And can you actually have really connecting, beautiful conversations? They may be painful or stressful or stretching at times, but can you actually tolerate the differences that exist in the relationship? And then can you find the solutions? So often people go and they try to solve this problem without fully having all the information. And that is where people get into trouble because they're like, we need this agreement and it needs to look like this because this is what it needs to look like to make me feel safe.

But if they actually slow down and allow their partners to share why they want whatever agreement they want, why is it so important to them? That's where you can really get some movement around a topic like this. Because otherwise, yeah, it could be a line in the sand, but it doesn't have to be.

Yeah, and I think that why piece is so crucial. Like, if you're the partner who wants monogamy, why do you want that? Why is this important to you? And it's important for your partner to understand that. And it's also important for you to understand why they're interested in and why they want non-monogamy. And, you know, once you've figured that out, you're on the same page about why.

understanding each other's wants and needs and desires, then you can start talking about potential creative solutions. Because maybe, for example, a partner who wants non-monogamy, maybe what they're really wanting is just more excitement added to your sex life. And so maybe there are things you can do other than opening up your relationship that can

get both of you what it is that you want and need and feel comfortable with. So starting with that differentiation piece is really key and then trying to find a creative solution. Now, unfortunately, creative solutions don't exist for every sexual problem. Sometimes partners are just too far apart and sometimes breakup is the answer and people need to grieve that

relationship and move on and find a relationship that is more suitable for them. So yeah, there's no one size fits all answer here, but yeah, definitely starts with the solid understanding of one another and what your wants and needs are.

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All right, so let's talk about non-monogamy for a bit. So as a starting point, a common question that comes up is whether a relationship has to start monogamous before opening up. And a lot of people seem to be under the impression that for non-monogamy to work, you have to have a period of intense bonding first, where you build up a strong connection and trust and intimacy with your partner before you start bringing other partners into the mix. So what do you think? Do you need to be monogamous first before opening up?

So, no. And I'm going to explain why I think this way. I mean, if you think about typical dating, you know, what we think about dating, most times people are dating lots of people at the beginning, you know, before they decide we're going to become exclusive in one way or another.

So most relationships, I don't think people would like to hear this, but most relationships start from a kind of non-monogamous perspective. And if you are able to actually connect and attach and bond and have all that really important stuff happen at the beginning and also still connect with other people in a sexual way, I think that's great.

If we think that you have to have a period of monogamy at the beginning of a relationship, that's kind of, again, like centering monogamy as the most important, valuable relationship structure. And we're saying you have to start there.

And some people, that's what's going to make them feel safe. That's what they're going to need to attach and bond. But for other people, I mean, me personally, that's not how my current relationship started. We started in a non-monogamous way and we've stayed that way for the last eight years. And it's worked really well for us. I mean, like we've been talking about in this conversation, it ebbs and flows and things shift over time. But I don't think...

Our relationship would be any different today if we started in a monogamous way. There are people who are listening to this who are going to have very strong reactions to this. If you're one of those people having a strong reaction, I would just ask you to just be curious, go inward. What's happening inside that is making you feel whatever that strong reaction may be?

Yeah. And you know, when it comes to all of these things we're discussing, again, there are no one-size-fits-all answers. Like, lots of people want to know, like, what are the rules for a relationship? And like, how do I do this and make it work just right? And it's like, well, different things work for different people, so we can't tell you what the rules are. And, you know, I'm not an advocate for monogamy or non-monogamy. I'm an advocate for having the type of relationship that is right for you.

And, you know, I don't care what it is that your preference is. Just do what it is that's right for you. And yeah, so for some people pursuing non-monogamy, it is important for them to have that monogamous period first and to build up trust and intimacy and so forth. And if that's what works for you, great. But it doesn't have to follow that pattern. Different relationships can work in very, very different ways.

So let's say you want to open up a relationship or explore non-monogamy with a partner. Do you have any tips or advice you can share in terms of like how to do this successfully? I know in your book, you talk about, you know, some of the pillars of success for navigating non-monogamy. So walk us through some of them.

I think you have to start off going slow because sometimes, you know, well, let me take that back because I've heard some success stories where people are drunk at a bar and they have their first non-monogamous experience and it opens the conversation in a really beautiful way.

And so I want to kind of keep our framework of what we've been talking about today, that there is no right way to do this. And so there has to be honesty. There has to be open communication. I am not of the belief that don't ask, don't tell works well. Again, that's probably going to be another controversial statement for some people because they want to have their non-monogamous stuff happening on the side and they don't want to have to actually talk about it and differentiate with their partner or partners.

But I don't know how you actually have an authentic, connected relationship if you're not sharing about what you're doing with other people. You don't have to go into all of the details if that's a turnoff for you. But I think you have to let people know, hey, I hooked up with someone today. Or even, hey, I watched porn today. I mean, there's so many relationships where any kind of conversation like that would be really, really scary.

And so I think you have to kind of have a foundation where you can have conversations like that before you start opening your relationship. Because if you're not actually talking about it, that's when people end up in my office and, you know, there's been so much hurt and so much pain. And it's not, you know, it's not consensual in that sense. Because if you're not really being clear and honest and you're not talking about shared values and all the principles of sexual health, like, I don't know how you do this in a way that does actually feel good for everyone involved.

Yeah. And, you know, I think what motivates a lot of people to pursue the don't ask, don't tell approach is because they want to have sexual interactions with other people and they want to be able to explore themselves sexually, but they're kind of afraid of what their reaction would be to their partner doing the exact same thing. And they're worried about feeling jealous or insecure or having some other negative emotional reactions. And so I think for many people, it's kind of like this protective mechanism so that they don't have to

learn information that would make them feel uncomfortable. But if you already know that you're likely to experience so many of those strong negative emotional reactions, you know, that raises the question of, is this the right style of relationship for you in the first place, right? If you know that you're very prone to jealousy and feelings of insecurity in the relationship. So yeah, you might want to revisit that because I agree with you that clear communication is really key in these relationships. And how do you know if

Partners are sticking to the agreement if you're not talking about these things regularly. So I can see how that could create another issue that comes up where something gets discovered inadvertently later on, and then they end up in your therapy office.

Yeah. For example, some one person gets an STI and they didn't know the other person was off and having sex with somebody else. And they're not taught. They don't have a clear sexual health plan. They're not talking about when they're getting tested. They're not kind of acknowledging that some of these things are just par for the course. You know, if you're having sex with more than one person, even having sex with one person, an STI is very possible. And so what are you going to do when something like that comes up?

Sometimes what's helpful for people is to take the conversation away from monogamy, non-monogamy, because people can get very stuck there. And if you think about other kind of big life decisions, like have a child, not have a child, if you can go hypothetically into a different topic and explore something different like that, you can then sometimes bring those skills you've learned back to a topic that's really charged.

Yeah. And I think another key factor in success and opening up is for the relationship to be in a good place before you do this, right? A lot of people open up a monogamous relationship in order to save it because it's failing in some way.

And unfortunately, that often doesn't work out because you don't have the trust and intimacy and communication level that's required in order to successfully navigate non-monogamy together. So I think you need to work first on making sure the relationship is in a good place, fixing any communication or other issues before you venture into this world of non-monogamy.

Now, a really key question in the process of opening up is figuring out, well, what kind of openness do you actually want? You know, openness runs on a spectrum. It can mean everything from you and your partner just having the occasional threesome to full-blown polyamory, you know? So I'm curious, in your experience as a sex therapist, what are the most common forms of non-monogamy that gay men's relationships seem to take?

I would say the one that I hear most often is, I'm going to have some time to play with somebody else when my partner's out of town, or we're going to play together when we're out of town. A lot of people don't want or have some kind of stigma about being non-monogamous in their community. And so sometimes it becomes like something that people can do on vacation or when they're out of their home place, or it's like some extracurricular stuff on the side. And so that's probably what I hear most commonly, probably followed second by,

A partner is not into something that they're into. And so they're, you know, somebody really likes to top and their partner is also a top. And so they need to find somebody else to be a bottom because that's something that they really crave. And that's something that they want for themselves.

Yeah. Vacation non-monogamy, right? It's a thing, right? And the, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas kind of thing. It's like, it's something we only do when we travel, but yeah, so it can take so many different forms. You know, I will say like in my own experience and also based on the research, like it seems to be that for most.

gay men who are in some type of non-exclusive relationship, you know, it tends to be more in that realm of, you know, some kind of open relationship, but less often in the realm of polyamory. Certainly gay men can and do pursue polyamory sometimes, but, you know, things like polyamory and swinging, I find tend to be more common among heterosexual persons and bisexual persons who are exploring non-monogamy versus gay men tend to

approach it a little bit differently. Although I will say in recent years, there's been a little bit of a change in this where I've seen a lot more talk about throuples in the gay community. And it's sort of like a lot of them have just kind of discovered that like openness doesn't just have to mean having casual sex on the side or having a friend with benefits. It can also mean having an additional partner or partners in the relationship. So yeah, it can definitely take a lot of different forms.

And why limit ourselves, right? I think for so long, I think there's a history with gay men. We've had to keep our sexuality and our desires in the closet, literally, or under wraps or in a dark back room somewhere. And so if we can actually bring some of that out and say, hey, we want really, really good, awesome, hot sex, but we also want to be connected to the person that we're having sex with.

I mean, that's a pretty novel concept for a lot of gay men. And so it doesn't surprise me that the research would say that polyamory is currently not such a big thing. And it's what I see in my office too. But I'm also seeing some more of the throuple kind of constellations and people who are wanting more connected relationships with the people they're having sex with. And I think that's really exciting. Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, I think we talked about this last time you were on the show that a lot of gay men struggle when it comes to finding just like one partner to be in a romantic relationship with, let alone many partners at the same time, right? There are many gay men who seem to have some issues around developing and cultivating romantic connections. For many of them, it's a lot easier to just create sexual connections. And I think that's why some of the open relationship types seem to be much more common in this community. But yeah, yeah.

So what do you think are the key ingredients of a successful non-monogamy agreement? So, you know, what kinds of things should partners discuss when they're just starting out on a journey of opening up? And again, like you can't possibly think of everything and take it all into account in the span of like one conversation. But what are some things to think about?

I think if you can start with somebody describing what it is that they're craving or desiring or longing for outside of the relationship, that's a good place to start. Because if someone describes, hey, I'm really looking for having some sex on the side when you're out of town. Okay, great. Then let's flesh that out. What does that look like? And let's talk about what the potential barriers to success around that would be. And what are the things that you, if I'm the partner and I'm describing, I want to do that. What is the other partner actually feeling or thinking about in that moment?

Are they able to actually notice internally, this feels good or this, whew, that's a limit for me? Or you can have someone over, but they certainly can't spend the night and you've got to wash the sheets afterwards. What are the things that are going to make you feel like this is going to...

potentially be the most successful that it can be. And, you know, if you can have a couple of conversations around this, I don't think it's one conversation. I think it's a series of conversations and, you know, you have a conversation and you go off and you reflect on it and you come back. And because you introduce an idea into the conversation, it doesn't mean it's going to happen.

And if your partner is brave enough to share something like that, are you going to take that with generosity? Or are you going to flip your lid and go wild on them for sharing something that took a lot of courage to share? I think both people have to be really active participants in this in a generous way.

Yeah. And so, you know, the key thing in this discussion is really figuring out boundaries and, you know, what it is that makes each person feel safe, gets them what they want and does it in a way that you mutually negotiate with one another. And yeah, it's probably going to take a few conversations to think through all of this.

And I think, you know, it's a good idea, as you said, to mention like different possibilities, like, well, what if this were to happen? And you can just sort of do a gut check reaction of how does that feel? And if the mere idea of it kicks in that fight or flight response and, you know, that's a good sign that, hey, maybe this is something we want to put a boundary around. But again, also recognize that you can't anticipate every possible outcome. And so your agreement might need to evolve and change over time.

And just because it needs to evolve or change doesn't necessarily mean that you have to close the relationship and go back to monogamy. It might just be that you need to approach non-monogamy with a different type of agreement that works better for you and your partner or partners. But, you know, something else I wanted to talk about here is

Just because you're in an open relationship doesn't necessarily mean that infidelity can't happen. You know, I think it's a common misconception about consensual non monogamy. The vast majority of people don't have like an anything goes agreement, right? But what constitutes infidelity in a non monogamous relationship might look very different from infidelity in a monogamous one. So tell us a little bit about infidelity and non monogamy. And you know, what do you as a sex therapist do when patients come in because there's been a breach in their relationship agreement?

So I use the word betrayal instead of infidelity. I know infidelity is kind of the word that most people use, but for some reason I have an ick factor around infidelity. I can't tell you why. There's no scientific research behind it, but most of the time people are feeling betrayal. And this can happen sexually. It can happen financially. There's lots of ways that people can feel betrayed inside of a relationship.

And so if somebody does feel betrayed by something that's happened, if someone's gone against an agreement or, you know, just slowing everything really like way, way, way, way down. And then seeing if, if people are regulated enough that I can help them start,

sharing? What hurts so deeply about this? What was so scary about this? Can you get to the emotion or the feeling that's underneath it? If you come in hot and you just accuse your partner of all of these violations, you're probably not going to actually be able to connect and move through it.

There's a crisis stage that happens at the beginning of a betrayal where the whole relationship feels very unsteady. That's totally natural. That's a process that can be worked through. But when you're in any kind of crisis, you've got to slow way down. You don't make big decisions. You've just got to let things settle a little bit.

Yeah. And, you know, I appreciate the framing around that as betrayal as opposed to infidelity, because infidelity is a loaded word, you know, and it brings up a lot of like very specific connotations for a lot of people. But it is something where, you know, whether the relationship is monogamous or non-monogamous, you know, any type of betrayal of the relationship agreement is something that can cause great distress. And it's something where a lot of

Partners have difficulty working through that on their own, and that's why it's one of the most common issues that you deal with as a sex or relationship therapist. So if it is something that you experience and you are struggling with it, consult with a licensed professional. We always recommend visiting ASECT, the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists, and looking for their therapist locator tool on their web page if you're looking for help finding a licensed professional near you.

So thanks for sharing all of this amazing information with us, Tom. I'm looking forward to continuing our conversation in the next episode and digging into the topic of sex tips for gay men. Can you please tell my listeners where they can go to learn more about you and your work and get a copy of your new book?

Sure. They can go to my website, www.queerrelationshipinstitute.com. I'm also on Instagram at Queer Relationship Institute and YouTube, which is also Queer Relationship Institute. And you can get my book on my website. There's links there. And there's also some other kind of free communication courses and things folks can explore. And the book is titled The Go-To Relationship Guide for Gay Men. Thanks again so much for your time, Tom. I really appreciate having you here. It's been great to talk to you again, Justin.

Thank you for listening. To keep up with new episodes of this podcast, visit my website, sexandpsychology at sexandpsychology.com or subscribe on your favorite platform where I hope you'll take a moment to rate and review the show. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, please consider becoming a Sex and Psychology Premium subscriber to enjoy ad-free listening for just $3.99 a month.

You can also follow me on social media for daily sex research updates. I'm on Blue Sky and X at Justin Laymiller and Instagram at Justin J. Laymiller. Also, be sure to check out my book, Tell Me What You Want. Thanks again for listening. Until next time.