Shownotes Transcript
You are listening to the Sex and Psychology Podcast, the sex ed you never got in school and won't get anywhere else. I am your host, Dr. Justin Lehmiller. I am a social psychologist and research fellow at the Kinsey Institute and author of the book, Tell Me What You Want, The Science of Sexual Desire and How It Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life. Modern sex education is insufficient in a ton of ways, but one of them is that the vast majority of programs assume that all students are heterosexual.
LGBTQ information is rarely discussed and in fact, in some US states, teachers are only allowed to supply negative information about alternative sexualities. The result is that LGBTQ people typically have to learn about sex all on their own and porn has really become the predominant way that they learn. And that can be a huge problem because porn sex is not real sex. It's entertainment, not a how-to guide.
So in today's show, we're diving into the sex ed you never got in school for gay and queer men when it comes to having positive and pleasurable sexual experiences. We'll cover sex tips for other elements of the LGBTQ community in future episodes. In this episode, we're going to talk about why porn is not a great way to learn about anal sex and what you need to know about anal pleasure, how to deal with sexual disappointments like when you or your partner's penis doesn't do what you want it to do,
navigating concerns about penis size and body image, substances and sex, what to do when you and your partner have discrepant sexual desires, and so much more. I am joined once again by Tom Brewett, a licensed marriage and family therapist, trainer, consultant, and author who works extensively with the queer community. He is the founder of the Queer Relationship Institute, which provides therapy for queer folks and training for therapists who work with queer relationships.
He is author of the new book, The Go-To Relationship Guide for Gay Men, From Honeymoon to Lasting Commitment. This is going to be another amazing conversation. Before we get to it, here is today's Level Up Your Love Life segment presented by Masterclass. With Masterclass, you can learn from the best to become your best. Masterclass recently launched the Art of Sex Appeal class featuring Shan Boodram as the instructor.
This class aims to teach you how to flirt better and attract the person you're looking for, how to create deeper emotional intimacy and meaningful connections, sexual positions and techniques for more fulfilling sex, and more. I love this class, and I think you're going to get a lot out of it. In our Level Up Your Love Life segments, we're going to highlight key lessons from the class that can help you in cultivating a hotter and healthier sex life.
Today, we're diving into the topic of navigating sex with a smaller-than-average penis, which is relevant to this episode because later on, we're going to talk about some of the concerns that men have about their own size. All right, let's dive in. So one of the things that Shan discusses in the class is how a smaller penis size does not necessarily mean that you are a less capable or competent lover. It just means that you might need to approach sex differently and think about things like specific positions that are going to work best for your size.
So I wanted to build on this by introducing the concept of genital fit, which I think can be really helpful. All too often, when sex between two people doesn't feel great, it gets chalked up to one partner's sizing problem. It often comes down to one partner being accused of being too small or the other being accused of being too loose. However, this isn't a very helpful way of approaching or resolving this issue. We'd do well to switch the conversation away from faulting someone for their size or shaming them and instead talk about the concept of genital fit.
I define genital fit as the way in which a given set of bodies and genitals line up for a given sex act. There are several degrees of genital fit. You know, it can be painful when the fit is too tight. It can be pleasurable when the fit is just right. And there can be a lack of sensation when the body parts just don't line up all that well. Genital fit can play a role in any partnered sex act, whether oral, vaginal, or anal, and no matter the partner's sex, gender, or orientation.
It's also something that can change over the course of a relationship. For example, oral fit can change if you experience a jaw injury or TMJ. Vaginal fit can potentially change following childbirth. And penile fit can change if your erections start becoming less full. Genital fit encompasses a lot of different things, including penis length and girth, as well as its overall shape and proportions, vaginal depth and width, anal diameter, pelvic floor tightness, as well as the size and shape of the mouth.
However, it's also affected by each partner's overall body shape and size, their ability status, and their health. All of these things can affect angles of penetration as well as what positions and activities are comfortable and feasible. What all of this means is that some sex acts are just going to be easier and more physically pleasurable for some partners because their bodies and genitals simply line up in a way that provides optimal stimulation. For those who don't have an easy fit, however, sex may feel uncomfortable or unenjoyable.
Genital fit isn't really something you can predict in advance of sex because there are a lot of variables that play a role in it. And sometimes the partners who are most attracted to one another aren't necessarily the partners with whom we have the best fit. It's also possible to be highly aroused by physical traits that don't translate to good genital fit. So for example, you might find the idea or visual of a particularly large penis to be arousing, yet you might find that accommodating that in your body is painful or uncomfortable.
So if you're with a partner with whom you don't have great genital fit, what can you do? Well, there are a lot of options, but ultimately it's about being adaptable and creative in finding a solution. So for example, I've heard from several listeners who struggle to enjoy performing oral sex on a larger than average penis because they find it to be physically uncomfortable. Given that you can't really increase the size of your mouth or decrease the size of your partner's penis, you need to get creative.
This might involve trying not to deep throat, using your hands or a sex toy such as an open-ended stroker, using your tongue to perform more of the stimulation, incorporating a lubricant, or trying a new position.
If tightness is a concern, the solution might be about not brushing into penetration and starting with relaxation exercises and dilators, which can help with both vaginal and anal tightness. It might also involve easing up on the Kegel exercises if your pelvic floor is particularly tight. Or maybe looking into Botox injections. You know, whole talks is a thing. By contrast, if you have the opposite concern about something like looseness, then it might be working on your Kegels or speaking with a pelvic floor therapist.
If the concern is a smaller penile length or girth, the solution might be looking into toys such as sleeves or girth enhancers, trying different positions that allow for deeper or fuller penetration. For example, one that Shan suggests is having your partner lie on their back with their legs in the air and keeping a nice tight connection between your bodies to prevent slippage. You might also think about things like maximizing your size with penis pumps or rings, or if your erections aren't as full as they used to be, talking to your doctor about ED medications.
Yet another possibility is simply to expand your definition of sex. You know, sex is about more than just intercourse. Try new and different activities together and expand the options that are on the menu. Sex can be whatever you want it to be. You can also combine multiple solutions to try and find the best fit. The partners we want to be with aren't always the partners with whom we have the best genital fit. And sometimes a good genital fit decreases over the course of a relationship.
This is an issue that can often be resolved with a flexible, adaptable, and creative mindset for sex. However, not everyone will find a mutually acceptable solution, especially if they're dealing with a particularly large fit discrepancy. Some people have a much bigger fit issue than others and just aren't a great match, unless they're willing to get creative.
Above all, remember that when genital fit is an issue, it's not helpful to blame or shame a partner for their body parts. It's also not just one partner's job to find a solution. Sexual problems are best addressed when everyone is invested in working through them together. All right, that wraps up our Level Up Your Love Life segment presented by Masterclass. A huge thank you to our friends over at Masterclass for sponsoring this segment and helping us all to learn and grow.
We have much more ahead on today's show, so stick around and we're going to jump in right after this short break. Do you want to learn more from me in the form of an online or in-person course? Become sexceptional by getting certified with Sexual Health Alliance, where you can learn from yours truly and a number of top sexuality scholars. Each year with Sexual Health Alliance, I teach courses like fantasies around the world, as well as immersive study abroad classes in several exciting countries.
Join these programs and become a certified sexuality professional at the same time. From sex therapists to sex educators, sex coaches to sexologists, Sexual Health Alliance streamlines your path to certification while allowing you to learn from leading experts in the field.
Most importantly, you'll gain the knowledge, skills, and credentials that you need to excel. Become sex-ceptional and connect with world-class experts and an engaged community of sexuality professionals from all across the globe. Start your path to certification today at sexualhealthalliance.com. Okay, Tom, let's talk about sex tips for gay men.
So you have a chapter in your book that's all about this topic. And I love how you start it because you say learning about anal sex through porn is about as useful as a set of Ikea instructions. Most of the time, the crucial parts are missing or vague, you know, and I think this is so true. And it's not just true for anal sex. It's true for all kinds of sex. Porn is not a great how to guide for learning about sex for anybody. But as a starting point, why do you think porn isn't the best place for gay men to learn about sex?
So porn can have lots of really good, useful applications. So I'm not, this is not an anti-porn conversation here. But, you know, porn has a lot of unrealistic expectations. We don't see the person trying to get hard. We don't see, you know, what happens if things get messy. We don't see the pain that can sometimes come up with anal sex.
And so there are lots of things that are missing. It's just like an Instagram account, right? You only see the really happy, beautiful vacation pictures from people. You don't usually see the messy fights and conflict and debt and all the other stuff that actually exists in real life, right?
Yeah, and you don't see the application or reapplication of lube. You don't see the discussion of consent or boundaries that happens beforehand. You don't see them stopping to take breaks or to check in with one another, right? So there's a lot that goes into porn that hits the cutting room floor that you just like never see, right? So that's why you shouldn't look at it as the how-to guide.
So recognize first, you know, porn is fantasy and entertainment, and it's totally fine to like and enjoy porn. It's just not a great how-to guide or blueprint for your own sex life.
And I think it's also important to recognize that what you're seeing on screen might not be pleasurable for you if you were to actually try it in real life. As I've said on the show many times before, sometimes your eyes are bigger than your holes, right? In porn, there's often a lot of glorification of large penises. And while that might be erotic or tantalizing to you to watch on screen, to actually do those same things in real life in the bedroom...
might actually be painful, uncomfortable, not pleasurable for you at all, right? So just keep in mind distinction between fantasy versus reality.
But let's dive into some specific sex tips. And we'll start with anal sex because this is a common practice in the gay community. And what we see in the research is that anal sex is usually the most common way that gay men define sex. Now, some people have more expansive definitions of sex and some gay men also aren't into anal at all. You know, some men are sides, as we've discussed with Joe Court previously on the show.
But, you know, I think a lot of people experience pain and discomfort with anal sex precisely because they're following the porn script. So can you give us some do's and don'ts when it comes to having more pleasurable anal sex?
I think starting with what you said about, you know, make sure that your eyes aren't bigger than your holes. So there are lots of different ways that you can start working up to having pleasurable anal sex experiences. It doesn't only have to be objects inside of the anus. There can be lots of other things that you do. There can be sensations with mouth and toys and all sorts of stuff that you could experiment with.
But I think in my sex education class, there was absolutely no description about how to have safe, enjoyable, pleasurable anal sex. And there are actually, I think, some good resources out there now. I mean, there's some incredible doctors who are putting stuff out there. I mean, there's a book I read recently that was like, okay, this is a step-by-step guide of how you can start using dilators and increase the capacity that you can do and level setting for what's actually physically possible.
But I think with anal sex, you've got to be listening to your body. You've got to make sure that, okay, if it doesn't feel pleasurable, if it feels incredibly painful, you've got to stop. You've got to listen to your body.
Yeah, I think the book that you're talking about there is But Seriously by Dr. Evan Goldstein, who was a previous guest on the show. And I definitely encourage listeners, after you listen to this episode, to check out my interviews with Dr. Goldstein, where we do a deep dive into his book and give lots of great, really practical tips on how to have pleasurable anal sex.
But a few things to highlight. So, you know, going back to what you said, I think practicing alone first can be a good step in terms of having more pleasurable sensation because you get to fully control that experience. And, you know, you can start with something small like a finger or a toy and see how that feels. And if you find that it's painful, even starting very small, like that's a different issue than saying, all right, like this,
this is pleasurable, but it's not pleasurable when I do it with a partner, right? That means there's going to be a difference in the way that you're approaching sex versus if it's always painful, no matter what you do, then you might want to talk to your doctor about, you know, is there an anal health issue like hemorrhoids or fissures or tears that are in need of treatment, right? So start with
solo play as kind of a way of exploring your body and figuring out what's comfortable to you. Also starting small, using dilators, you know, having some warm up prep first can be very helpful for relaxing the tissues.
you know, a lot of people just jump right into penetration and that doesn't work for a lot of people. You know, you can't go zero to 60 for most people. And that's how sometimes people get anal injuries and other things is that they're not taking the time to prep and to relax and to dilate and do all of that stuff beforehand.
you know something else that i think is important here that you mentioned is you know anal sex should not be painful and if there's pain you should stop but i think you know a lot of gay men kind of get the message that like anal sex is supposed to be painful like this is something that people are told and it's a message that they internalize and it's not that different from what a lot of heterosexual women hear where they hear that the very first time they're going to have sex that it's going to be painful and so it's like we need to reset our expectations around this like
Good sex should not be painful unless you have a kink for pain, right? So yeah, if it's painful, stop. Because pain is your body's way of telling you that something is wrong. And if you continue despite the pain, that again is a way that you can start to potentially develop injuries and that can lead to complicating factors for future sexual encounters.
I think it's also important to be mindful of like using substances that blunt your pain perception when you're going to have anal sex, you know, because a lot of people might use desensitizing lube or they might consume alcohol or other substances because in the past, anal sex was painful for them. So they're going to do something to blunt the pain. But when they can't experience the pain, then they don't know like that something is wrong and they might go too far and again, potentially hurt themselves in the process. So yeah, lots of things to think about here.
Yeah. And as somebody who has survived an anal fissure, and I would not wish it on my worst enemy, I have been able to bottom again. There is hope, but it's a years-long process. If you're using something like alcohol or poppers or something to numb the pain, I really would recommend you stop doing that. You can hurt yourself, and it can be a very long process to heal.
Yeah, you don't want to experience anal injuries. And, you know, that's another issue that Dr. Goldstein has talked about previously on the show. And, you know, he's somebody who is an anal surgeon. And so, you know, if you do experience an anal injury, he's a good person to consult because, you know, he's a doctor who is equipped in treating and focusing on treating the gay male community and working with people who have anal sex. So, you know, if you are experiencing an issue, seek out a healthcare professional who knows everything.
what they're doing in that particular area. But one more tip for pleasurable anal sex is to vary your position, right? So if you find that it's uncomfortable or painful or not pleasurable, maybe try a position where you're on top, where you can be in control of the speed and depth and angle of thrusting. And sometimes by being in more control, you may find that you're able to derive more pleasure from the experience. So lots of things that you can do. And of course, above all, plenty of lube.
And I think the way that we've just talked about this is probably more, and by this I mean anal sex, is probably more than most of the gay men who are listening to this because we just don't talk about it enough. We don't talk about sexual health. I mean, I didn't know what an anal fissure was until I had an anal fissure. And I'm a relationship therapist and sex therapist, right? There's stuff that is just not talked about.
Yeah, and I think that's why it's so important to talk about it because it's really in that lack of education and awareness that people start to develop a lot more problems. All right, so in talking about sex tips for gay men, I think another big one to recognize is that your penis and your partner's penis won't always do what you want it to do. You know, sometimes you'll want an erection, but you can't get one. Or sometimes you'll lose one in the middle of sex.
Also, you might orgasm before you want to, or sometimes your orgasm might take a lot longer than you want it to, or it might not happen at all. And it's normal to experience all of these things sometimes. Of course, if you're experiencing a problem that's very consistent and it's causing distress, like that's another issue, seek out professional help. But
But as a sex therapist, you know, I wondered if you could speak to this point about how it's normal for penile function to be variable and to grow more variable as we age. And also, you know, what should partners do in a situation when one or more of the penises aren't cooperating? You know, how do you deal with this in a healthy way?
Well, it's very, very natural and normal. And so, you know, really assessing, like you were saying, has this been happening for a long time? Does this only happen with some partners? There's some situations where it's like people only have these experiences within group sex, or they'll only have it in experiences where it's someone that they really care about.
I wish that our penis was sometimes just like a switch that we could make work the way we wanted it to work, but that's just not the way it is. And so if something happens, and this is so important, if something happens and there is a disappointment in the bedroom, how are you going to talk about that? Because if you're the person on the receiving end who is the partner whose penis isn't working, the way that you react to your partner in that moment can have lasting consequences.
Can you just allow it to roll with the munchers? Let's do something else. Let's cuddle for a little bit. Can you be more flexible? Because if not, that's when people come into the office is when there's been shame built up over time, over time, over time. And then it's really a lot more difficult to treat.
Yeah. And I like the framing around, like, if something happens that you don't want to happen, like it's a sexual disappointment, you know, it's not necessarily a sexual dysfunction in need of treatment, unless it's a persistent problem that always comes up and is creating distress. But, you know, a one-time thing, like we need to learn how to deal with that in a healthy way and understand like,
Well, it might not just be a one time thing, like occasionally this might be an issue. And when people start blaming or shaming their partners, that becomes an issue. And I think also another common thing that happens is that people sometimes take it personally when their partner can't get an erection or loses one or doesn't have an orgasm. They're like, well, they don't find me attractive or they're not enjoying the sex that we're having. And when people start personalizing like that,
it becomes very destructive to the relationship. And the more anxiety that you pile on to this one-time disappointment, the more likely it is that the next time you go to have sex, that that anxiety is going to come to mind for your partner, and it might lead the same problem to emerge again. It can become this self-fulfilling prophecy when it starts to become this chronic source of anxiety. So yeah, you're so right that the way you respond to a partner's sexual disappointment is
is really, really crucial for the health of your relationship and for your future sex life. And it's a common goal. If you're in a relationship, you're on the same team. You want the same things. Yeah. So the penis won't always do what you want it to do. And that's okay. We just need to normalize that and we need to learn to roll with it.
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Since we're on the subject of penises, let's talk about the issue of size and body image. You know, a lot of gay men have concerns that they don't measure up because porn and gay culture glorify extra large penises. And this breeds a lot of insecurity among men of all sizes.
You know, there are a lot of men who are well above average who are somehow even convinced that they're too small, right? And it's not just that size sometimes creates insecurities. Also things like circumcision status can play a role in this too. You know, in the US where most men are circumcised, uncircumcised guys sometimes get rejected for being uncut. So tell us a little bit about what you tell clients who feel self-conscious about their penises in some way, whether for size or some other reason.
Unfortunately, it happens way more than I think anybody would like to admit. With the circumcision piece, sometimes people are either rejected or they're fetishized. And so it's like, you know, people sometimes feel like they're like damned if they do, damned if they don't. And I think the same thing happens with size. And so, you know, or if your penis is curved or, you know, whatever, whatever may be going on, each penis is unique. Can we celebrate all the penises? Let's have a party for all the penises. Yeah.
The more penises, the better. But I think it is something where, again, I don't think people are really talking about it. I don't think people in a lot of their friendships are bringing up the topic of their penis or their penis shame. I think sometimes in therapy they will, but even then, not always. There's so much shame because there's so much pressure on us in this culture to be a certain way as men or people with penises. And there's a cost to that.
Yeah. And in, you know, gay male culture, like large penises and, you know, chiseled bodies are things that are very much celebrated. And guys who don't like fit those molds often feel very insecure and not confident in their bodies. And, you know, I think like a good starting point for dealing with the issue of penis size anxiety is just
starting with educating yourself around, well, what is the average penis size anyway? Because people think that the average penis size is bigger than it really is. And we get those inflated ideas from porn and from media. And so if you look at the scientific research on this topic, the average penis size looking across like dozens of studies and tens of thousands of measurements is about five inches or so. Right. And people, when you ask them to estimate what the average penis size is, they're estimating between six and seven inches. Right. So people think that it's
bigger than it really is on average. So I think first,
resetting your expectations about what's normal, recognizing that normal is a wide range, and also recognizing that no matter what your penis size is, there is someone, there are many people out there who will find you attractive and enjoy your body just the way that it is. And I think we also need to recognize that sometimes you might be rejected by a partner because they have a preference for a different size. And I think when it comes to the issue of size preferences, that's a whole conversation
controversial topic we could get into, but I don't think it's necessarily right or wrong to have a preference for different sizes. But I think we need to recognize that sometimes we're not going to be a match for somebody else's preferences. And that doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you or with your penis. It just means you're not a match. You know,
There's so much rejection that happens in the world of dating and it happens for, you know, not just related to penis size, but for so many other things. And we have to learn better ways of dealing with and coping with that rejection and not taking it personally and recognizing that, hey, we've gained information from this interaction with this other person and we're just not a match. And when you can kind of reframe it and look at it through that lens, then it doesn't have to feed into all of that anxiety and insecurity.
This is one of the best ways to use differentiation when you're talking about sex, is to, again, not personalize it, allow there to be space for differences. Differences are totally natural, they're totally normal. And does this present an opportunity for you to actually coach your partner in what would feel more pleasurable to you? Can you use this opportunity if the size is not exactly the way you want it to be?
Sometimes it's not just the size, right? It's the technique. There's all sorts of things that you could do to kind of improve your sex life in this way if you're willing to take the risk to talk about it.
Yeah, and you know, again, having that expansive sexual repertoire, being willing to try new and different things, that allows you the possibility to pursue pleasure with partners of all different sizes and people who may be different from you in a variety of ways. So little open-mindedness can go a long way in the bedroom. Now, I think another good sex tip for gay men is to try having sober sex if the only time that you ever have sex is when you're on substances.
Now, lots of gay men will consume alcohol, marijuana, or other drugs prior to sexual activity as a way of relaxing, getting in the mood, or clearing their mind. And when it becomes a repeated pattern, the substances sometimes become a requirement for having sex, like where they feel like they can't perform without the substances.
And that can potentially be a problem because if you're always high during sex, although you might find that that enhances sex in some ways, it can also lead to other issues. For example, substances open the door to moving beyond your own boundaries and potentially moving past your partner's boundaries without recognizing it.
And sometimes substances become a way of dealing with things like internalized homophobia, you know, pointing to a deeper issue where some people feel like they can only have sex when they're high or drunk because that's the only way they can get past, you know, that internalized homophobia that they have. Now, I'm not trying to say that incorporating substances with sex is always bad or that you should never do it. You know, don't get me wrong, I'm not, you know, telling people like you can't consume substances or combine them with sex.
But as a sex therapist, tell us a little bit about why you think it's worth trying sober sex.
I think one question to consider for yourself if you're in this boat is what purpose is the substance serving in your sex life? Is it enhancing your sex life? And how do you know if that's the case? Is it numbing things out? Is it covering up sex pain? What purpose is that substance serving? And once you understand that, then you can kind of move to which direction to go with it. But I think so often, like, if you experiment with sober sex, you're going to have to be, by definition, much more present in your body.
And that may be really scary. That may be overwhelming. That may be all sorts of different things. So are you able to actually be in your own body? And if partnered sex feels a little too intense to do that with, are you able to have a practice of self-pleasure where it's sober?
If you're a gay man and you use poppers a lot when you masturbate, are you able to not do that and see what that experience is like? Because if not, over time, we know that it is going to create more of a gap between you actually being physically present in your body and the substances.
Yeah. And, you know, being present in your body, like you said, you know, it can be scary and can be a little like intimidating and overwhelming if you've never had sober sex or if you haven't done it for a really long time. But it's really a great way to connect or reconnect with your body and to understand what it is that brings you pleasure and how you feel in these situations and also potentially to develop a deeper connection during sex if that's something that you're looking for. Right. So, yeah.
Yeah, I think there can be lots of benefits of trying sober sex. Like, can you have sex without the substances? And asking yourself those questions of, well, why do I need the substance? What is it doing for me? What purpose is this serving? Because, you know, again, while substances enhance sex for a lot of gay men, they can also lead to a lot of problems in gay men's lives. Like, I have...
all too many people in my life that I know who have gone on to become addicted to various substances. And something that starts out as something that they enjoy recreationally every now and then during sex,
it ends up escalating and becoming like a bigger substance use habit or addiction or problem. And then that spirals out into bigger relationship conflicts and other issues in their lives. And so, you know, it's an issue that's based on my own experiences with my friends and other people in my life. It's like substances are a big issue that we don't talk enough about and they become so normalized in our community. And they at the same time can also cause so many problems.
And if you do use a substance like crystal meth, which is pretty common in our community with linking it with sex, there are lots of studies that show that that in connection with the orgasm, it just amplifies everything in the brain. And then it can be actually more difficult to enjoy sober sex because you've conditioned your brain to actually crave sex with that kind of a substance. And crystal meth does a lot with the brain. And that's just one example.
Yeah. And so again, I'm not anti incorporating substances with sex across the board. I'm just saying, be careful with it, make informed decisions and try having sex sober, right? So that you can see and understand what that experience is like.
So one of the other tips that you discuss in your book is practicing self-pleasure, but not just by going to your regular go-to routine, right? You know, most people, when they masturbate, usually do the same thing every single time. But you encourage gay men to use masturbation as a form of sexual self-exploration. So tell us a little bit more about why you say that.
And this is going to be controversial for some people because I know that the porn topic can be sort of a lightning rod for our community. I do think that there is some power that can come from fantasy and whether that's use of pornography, whether that's erotic literature, whether that's just fantasy in your own mind or any other way that you're doing that, it's a way to actually explore different areas of your sexuality, your entire kind of erotic blueprint without actually doing anything with anybody else.
So, you know, if you can use it as a way to explore different body types, different maybe fetishes, different experiences or kinks, you know, different things that maybe you wouldn't necessarily feel like you want to do in your real life in that particular moment, you can do it in your fantasy life. And then you could maybe bring some of those things back to your partnered sex in different ways. And that's the way, one way, you know, to keep things interesting and exciting and continue to evolve and grow as a sexual human.
Yeah. And you can also use masturbation as a way of stimulating different parts of the body and seeing what it is that feels pleasurable to you. So again, like I said, most people have kind of a go-to masturbatory routine. It's often mimicking like the very first time they ever masturbated.
But if you kind of try different sensations, if you try different techniques, if you try stimulating other parts of the body, like trying nipple stimulation or prostate stimulation, you know, it can be a great way to understand what it is that brings you pleasure. And if you also incorporate that element of experience.
exploring your erotic blueprint, whether through listening to some audio erotica or watching a different type of pornography or just fantasizing about something that's different than you usually fantasize about. Yeah, you've got that opportunity there to expand your sexual menu and explore some different things. Because like you said, you know, that is one of the keys to keeping a sex life hot, happy and healthy. It's always expanding your erotic blueprint.
Now, another tip you talk about is to avoid getting overly fixated on orgasm-focused sex. And, you know, a lot of people across genders and sexualities see orgasm as the ultimate goal of sex. But that feeds into what sex therapists call the orgasmic imperative, which can lead to some issues. So tell us a little bit about that and why we don't want to be so overly focused on orgasm as the goal.
Yeah. I mean, this happens a lot as our bodies change and grow as we get older, right? What if all of a sudden your penis isn't able to stay as hard as you want it to stay? Does that mean sex is off the table? Sometimes this also happens where people are personalizing it. They feel like they own their partner's orgasm. And if their partner isn't able to orgasm on command or through sex, then it means that there's something wrong with them or their relationship. And
And all that kind of stuff is just really toxic. And it gets in the way of what I think sex at its core is, which is pleasure. And it's being able to connect with another human if that's what you choose to do and have an experience that feels good in your body. And if orgasm is included, that's great. But if you focus too much on it, it adds to the pressure. And we know pressure and sex is like oil and water.
And so if you want to ensure that there will be more erectile disappointments in the future, just add a little pressure to the system. Yeah, and that definitely is an issue. Sometimes it's not just us putting pressure on ourselves to have an orgasm. It's us putting pressure on a partner to have an orgasm, saying things like, did you come yet? Did you come yet? Some people, I think, are well-intentioned when they say that. They enjoy their partner's orgasm. They aren't trying to create a sense of pressure, but by virtue of you saying that,
it creates this feeling of pressure that they're feeling. And then that can interfere with their own ability to have an orgasm. So kind of need to be careful about how we communicate about these things. And, you know, if this is something that becomes an anxiety source for you, like where your partner is, is always saying things like that, that, that start then getting in your head, it's important to have a conversation about this. And it's,
You know, we really need to get away from this orgasmic imperative. Like, it's great if orgasms happen. I hope everybody listening has lots and lots of orgasms, but it's okay if sometimes it doesn't happen. Don't feel bad about it and don't blame or shame or otherwise criticize your partner if they don't have an orgasm because that only sets the stage for future problems.
Now, a very common issue that comes up in long-term relationships for gay men and also people of all genders and orientations is desire discrepancies. So you might find that you and your partner want different amounts or types of sex. And sometimes one partner ends up feeling pressured to have more sex than they want. So how do you deal with a situation like this? What do you do in the case of a desire discrepancy?
I love what David Snarch says about this, that every relationship, there a desire discrepancy is involved because there will always be somebody who has lower desire and there will always be somebody who has higher desire. And so if we stop thinking that one is good and one is bad or pathologizing one or the other, then we can really start having the conversations that I think are going to be more important.
There are some times where the issues do actually, they impact the relationship in a really meaningful way. And that is, again, I would really recommend you go and see a very seasoned clinician who has experience working with sex and working with relationships, because this is one of those issues that there is no simple, easy flip a switch solution for. It's going to take time. It's going to take understanding. It's going to take a little bit of effort. There
There are ways to move through it, but I think people's desire, it's always going to be there in the relationship. And so if you're hoping that someday there's some magical fix that will make this go away, I want to just kind of temper your expectations there.
Yeah, I mean, desire discrepancies can be one of the most difficult things to treat. And, you know, it often starts with figuring out, well, why was there a change in desire in the relationship? Because oftentimes it was the case that partners were on the same page at the very beginning of the relationship. But
desire for one of them faded over time or it faded more than it did for the other person. You know, most people experience some reduction in desire in their long-term relationship over time. Some people just experience it much more steeply than the other. And, you know, there can be various reasons for that. You know, sometimes it's an underlying health issue. Sometimes it's an issue related to stress.
Sometimes it's an issue related to medication or substance use, or there can be so many different factors that can be playing a role there. And it can also be due to complex relationship dynamics and intimacy and trust issues in the relationship. So that's what makes desire difficult to treat is because desire is just so multifaceted. So many different things can be impacting it that there's not one simple and easy fix. I wish there was.
because it is such a common sex problem. But yeah, it's not a light switch, unfortunately. This is not one of those do-it-yourself kind of issues. Like this is one of those like, okay, the check engine lights on and it's really important to actually take it into the dealer. Yeah, definitely. Well, thank you so much for this amazing conversation, Tom. It was a pleasure to have you here. Can you please tell my listeners where they can go to learn more about you and your work and get a copy of your new book?
Sure. They can go to my website, www.queerrelationshipinstitute.com. I'm also on Instagram at Queer Relationship Institute and YouTube, which is also Queer Relationship Institute. And you can get my book on my website. There's links there. And there's also some other kind of free communication courses and things folks can explore. And the book is titled The Go-To Relationship Guide for Gay Men. Thanks again so much for your time, Tom. I really appreciate having you here. It's been great to talk to you again, Justin.
Thank you for listening. To keep up with new episodes of this podcast, visit my website, sexandpsychology at sexandpsychology.com or subscribe on your favorite platform where I hope you'll take a moment to rate and review the show. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, please consider becoming a Sex and Psychology Premium subscriber to enjoy ad-free listening for just $3.99 a month.
You can also follow me on social media for daily sex research updates. I'm on Blue Sky and X at Justin Laymiller and Instagram at Justin J. Laymiller. Also, be sure to check out my book, Tell Me What You Want. Thanks again for listening. Until next time.