Episode 386: A Day In the Life of a Brothel Madam
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You're listening to the Sex and Psychology Podcast, the sex ed you never got in school and won't get anywhere else. I am your host, Dr. Justin Lehmiller. I am a social psychologist and research fellow at the Kinsey Institute and author of the book, Tell Me What You Want, The Science of Sexual Desire and How It Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life. Prostitution is illegal throughout most of the United States. However, in the state of Nevada, there are a few counties where it is legal and where business is booming.

Currently, there are close to two dozen legal brothels in the state where a lot of the sex work takes place. In today's show, we're going to go inside one of these brothels and talk to the madam who manages it. Some of the topics we're going to address include what the job of a brothel madam is really like, the most rewarding and challenging aspects of the job, and the steps that brothels take to ensure safety and respect for sex workers. We're also going to address common myths and misconceptions about brothels and sex work.

People have a lot of preconceived notions about the sex work industry, so prepare to have some of those ideas challenged. My guest today is Tara Adkins, who has served as the madam of the world-famous Mustang Ranch for 17 years. As the madam of this property, Tara is responsible for hiring and training the courtesans. Additionally, she provides counsel to the women, offering support on financial and personal matters to ensure their success as independent contractors and beyond.

This is going to be another fascinating episode. Stick around and we're going to jump in right after the break. If you love the science of sex as much as I do, consider becoming a friend of the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University. The Kinsey Institute is the world's premier research organization on sex and relationships, and you can help them continue the legacy of Dr. Alfred Kinsey, whose pioneering research changed everything we think we know about sex.

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Hi, Tara, and welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Well, thanks so much for joining me. So as someone who manages a legal brothel, I got to say, I'm very curious about your journey into this area. So how did you get into this line of work? How did you become a brothel madam? Well, I've been in this business for almost 30 years. So I started way back in the day when Joe and Sally Conforti owned the Mustang Ranch. That was back in the 90s.

And then I took a little break and came back when, let's see, Lance Gilman and Donnie Gilman bought the Mustang Ranch off of eBay. That's quite a story. It's hard to kind of piece together. So when Joe Conforti lost the Mustang Ranch, the feds took over. And then all the workers left because we didn't want the feds to be running a brothel because they knew nothing about running a brothel.

And then a lady took over that was laundering money over to Conforti at that time. So then they shut down Mustang Ranch for good. So the building itself went on sale on eBay. And so Lance Gilman bought the property. But at the time, he was building the Wild Horse Saloon, which is the building where it now is built from the ground up. And then when we got the Mustang Ranch, we had to get a Schenect helicopter and fly that over to this property.

And then he put a bunch of money into it and rebuilt it from the ground up again. And so let's see, I've been a madam for close to 17 years now. Well, that is a fascinating story. Never heard of a brothel being sold on eBay before. Probably the one and only time. But what motivated you to take the job in the first place? So how did you get involved in working in a brothel?

When I was 18, I was just really interested in it. And so it was a lot more crazier back then, of course, in my younger years. It was almost controlled chaos back then. Of course, that's the 90s and everybody was partying. And then I started going to school to be a firefighter and became one.

And then the recession hit, God, when was that, 2007 or 8? I was hired on as a firefighter, but the first eight of us that were hired on were the first eight to be let go. And I wanted to come back to something that I loved. I loved the ladies here. I loved the environment here. I loved what they were doing at Mustang. So I called the madam at the time and asked to come back.

She put me as a bartender for about two weeks. I had no bartending experience whatsoever. So I'm like Googling how to make drinks and asking the girls how to make drinks. And finally, the madam said, I kind of need you on my side. So I'm going to put you as a madam's assistant. And then she ended up retiring a short time later. And that's kind of where my journey took off from being a madam.

So from firefighter to bartender to brothel madam, it's a fascinating personal journey in terms of how you got to where you are. So before we dive into what it's like to manage a brothel, let's talk a little bit about the legal landscape surrounding brothels.

So in the United States, my understanding is that prostitution is illegal throughout the country, except for the state of Nevada. But even within Nevada, it's only legal in certain counties. Yes. And contrary to popular belief, it's not legal in the county where Las Vegas sits. So there's only a very small number of places in this country where you could open and operate a legal brothel.

But even then, there are going to be a number of laws and requirements that a brothel has to comply with in order to survive. So, you know, it sounds like in the past there was a little bit of trouble in terms of the storied history of the Mustang branch. But I was wondering if you could tell us about some of the requirements you have to meet in order to be a fully legal brothel.

I don't know all the verbiage, but you can't be anywhere near any residential areas, of course. It has to be in a gated community or gated facility, which we are. In our facility, there's a guard shack out in the front. And so security sits there 24-7. So that way they can card everybody and make sure everybody's 18 and older to come out to the brothel. And so everybody gets checked.

As far as requirements with the ladies, everybody has to get an STI check, some blood work. We also do anal exams too. The way the ordinance reads is if one girl offers anal and a brothel, then all the girls have to test anally too. And so that doesn't mean all the girls will offer anally. We just have to be up to par with our brothel ordinance. And all the girls are seen every seven days.

And so our nurse, we're lucky. We're the only brothel where our nurse and our providers actually come onto property and see the ladies. And so we have a doctor's office on site.

So lots of requirements that you have to comply with in order to be a legal brothel. And it's interesting to note that in different countries, different cultures where sex work is legal, sometimes the requirements are very different. So for example, in the Netherlands, where sex work is legal, there actually isn't an STI testing requirement for workers. Wow. It's just sort of interesting. And in the Netherlands, the way that that's viewed...

is not as like a bad thing. Rather, it's seen as this is ensuring the workers' autonomy, like to take care of their own sexual health instead of it being mandated by the government to say, like, you have to have STI tests at this particular frequency. So yeah, it's just sort of an interesting sidebar about how the laws regarding sex work and prostitution can be drastically different depending on where you are in the world. Very much different.

So the word brothel probably conjures up a specific mental image for a lot of people, but I think the reality of the place you work at, the Mustang Ranch, is probably quite different from what people might expect. So paint a picture for us. What is the atmosphere and environment like at the ranch, and how is it maybe different from the stereotypes that people might have about a brothel?

Well, I'm going to go back a little bit to with the requirements because also everybody in the brothel, including the employees and the working ladies actually have to get a work card through the sheriff's department. And we actually do our own background checks too. So whether you're a cook or a cashier or me, we all go down and do our own background checks with the sheriff's department.

With the working ladies, we call them courtesans. And so after their medical clearance, then we take them down to the sheriff's department and they get a work permit to actually work here. The sheriff's department does their own background check.

And so that's more requirements to rent a brothel too. Our environment, this place, we have kind of two separate businesses. And I wish I could take you around and tour you. It's a huge facility. We have a full bar and restaurant in the front. And so you can come out and get a drink, have some lunch, get some dinner. We have a lot of guests throughout our community because we have...

USA Parkway that has a lot of the gigafactories and people just come out here and get some lunch because we have really good food here. We've got about five amazing chefs on property. And then we have a firewall and then you come through into the brothel side. And so over on this side, we have over 30 bedrooms, four suites.

for all the ladies to reside in. And so when a lady books her tour, usually it's about two weeks at a time. And so that's her bedroom for her two weeks. And that's where she takes her customers if she wants, or she can take them into a suite.

We have a full kitchen. We've got a gym. We've got a pool. We've got a hot tub. And then the building across the street, the original Mustang, there's 32 bedrooms over there. Let's see, three, four, five. There's about six other suites across the street. Another pool, another hot tub, an accounting department. It's huge out here. It is a resort.

Yeah, I was just going to say, it sounds like it's a full vacation resort in a lot of ways. It's funny because the girls, they get so, I don't want to say spoiled, but you'll hear them say, well, now I got to go home and I got to cook my own meals. And now I've got to do my own laundry because we have a full staff of housekeeping here too. So when they go home, they're like, oh my God, I got to cook for myself now. Yeah.

Yeah, you know, it's funny what you said about having great food because sometimes brothels and sex clubs have the best food. Like there was this place we went to in Atlanta a few years ago. We had a sexuality research conference that was held down there. And there was this strip club that was advertised as having like the best wings, you know, in the country. So, yeah.

Of course, we had to go and try it for the wings. That's funny because we have a strip club in Reno. And when I was younger, they had the best food there. And so we would go down every Sunday and watch football. And they had steak and lobster. And heck, yeah, I'm going to go to the strip club and have some good food. Yeah.

So managing a brothel must involve a pretty unique set of responsibilities. So what is your job as the manager of a brothel look like? Tell us about what a typical day for a brothel madam might be like. So there's no typical day. Every day is different. I'm dealing with anywhere from 25 to 30 ladies a day. So this morning, for example, one of the ladies is having a hard time and

you know, and texting me, she needs some personal time. And so immediately before I got on, on here with you, I had to bring her in and kind of calm her down because she was in her, in her thoughts and her mind. And so we had to take her outside and go for a walk, kind of decompress and, you know, get in touch with nature for a minute and figure out what was going on in her mind that was giving her so much anxiety.

There's three different shifts here. There's 9am to 9pm, 3pm to 3am and 9pm to 9am because we're a 24 hour business. And so I just make sure all the ladies are on shift and kind of be going in the bar, you know, greeting customers, you

I kind of watch their money. If they're not making money, that's a personal conversation. Is there something going on with her or does she not want to be here? You're almost playing mom to everybody. Even when the ladies are not here, they reach out to me if something's going on at home as well. And hiring ladies, we probably get about 10 to 15 applications a day.

It's really hard to get to know somebody over the phone. And so we try and get everybody in here we can. I mean, we're scheduled out for probably a year and a half at this point, but that's when you really get to know somebody is when they get here on property to see if you're a good fit for us and we're a good fit for you. And we just had two ladies come in last week and never had worked at a brothel before and

One of the ladies lasted about three days and she called me and she's like, this is the place I want to come back to. But right now it's just not a good time. I'm having problems with my nanny, but I want to leave on a good note because what you guys are doing is everything is right. Everybody's so kind and accommodating and you're just helping these ladies. You just, I want them all to be successful. Um,

I try and teach like a five-year plan, like, you know, be here for five years, but what's your plan after that? Are you going to go to school, buy some property, a business? Like I try and help and teach and guide those ladies to have a plan too.

Yeah, it sounds like you're pulled in a lot of directions and you're playing the role of den mother in a lot of ways, but also kind of the role of therapist in some ways as well. When the people who work for you are having emotional issues or other things like that, or struggles with the job and having to help them through that. And then also serving in the role of a mentor for them as well in terms of

thinking about your future plans and what it is that you want to do. Also, fun fact, part of your job probably also involves monitoring and responding to Yelp reviews. You know, I'm guessing a lot of people had no idea that you could leave a brothel review on Yelp. Yes, they can. But I was reading some of them before the show and several people talked about what an amazing burger you have in the lounge. Our burgers are so good. They're so, oh my gosh, they're so good. I'm going to have to come for the food at some point. Mm-hmm.

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So what do you find to be the most rewarding aspect of your job? And what do you find to be most challenging in managing a brothel?

Most rewarding. I just, I love coming to work every day and seeing these ladies and making new connections, even with the customers and seeing our regulars that have been coming here for 5, 10, 15 years or meeting new people that come in or meeting new girls and seeing my girls that have been here with me for years and just being a part of their lives. I think that's the most rewarding part.

The most upsetting part is when I do have to break a contract with a lady. I try and tell the ladies, I'm very limited on my rules here. Just don't lie to me. I hate lies. Everything can be a conversation. We can work through it. Don't steal. Don't bring drugs in here because we're a drug-free facility.

And some people try and test that. And so we have to break contract and it breaks my heart because you get to know each and one of these ladies and who they are and about their lives. And, you know, do they have addiction in the past and all of the things. And so when you come to that situation, you have to break a contract. It breaks my heart. It really does. Cause now I have to be like, Hey, it's, I got to send you on your way, go try another brothel. And,

99% of the time, they always come back. They always call me. I have one young lady who has been gone about eight months and she called me for eight months, 10 times a day. And I finally answered my phone. I said, okay, we're going to give this another shot. I try and give everybody a second chance. Everybody. I think everybody deserves that, especially in this business, because I want them to learn

This is a drug-free house, you know, don't steal clients or money and we can get through everything. Like we worked really hard to protect this business. Yeah, it sounds very much like it's a business of personal relationships, right? And relationships can be complicated and messy in a lot of ways. They can also be very rewarding in other ways when you have those solid connections with others. But yeah, I can definitely understand the ups and downs there.

Now, I have to imagine that in managing a brothel, ensuring the safety of workers and clients alike is probably a paramount concern. So I'm curious about the steps that you take to ensure the safety and well-being of everyone involved and just make it a positive experience for everyone.

So the safety for everybody, we have a full staff of security, 24-hour security. There's always somebody posted at the front gate and there's always security in the bar. And then we have what we call a floater. And that is security walking around, checking all the rooms and checking the whole entire property. And then they switch out every 30 minutes. There's private alarms in all the ladies' rooms. And so if...

somebody's not respecting her boundaries, then she can trigger that alarm and security is down there within seconds. And they're not going to knock and say security, they're going to knock and they're barging in. And I've been in this building since 2003 and 99% of the time it's a foot, it's a pillow, it's an accident. But even then I want security to barge in and give me a visual. She's okay. And then of course, reset that alarm.

The other safety of that is our ladies stay here on property because they carry medical clearance. And so that way I can tell our customers she's still medically clear. We have a driver five days a week. So if the ladies want to go in and get their hair done, go shopping, get their nails done, then they sign up on a runner's log and the driver takes them to town. I know she's still medically clear because she's with that driver.

If she wants to drive herself, now, I don't know if she went to see a girlfriend or a boyfriend or a customer or something that might compromise that medical testing. So she can take herself. She'll just have to see the doctor and medically re-clear.

Because if I let her go on her own and come back and work, and now she's booked a customer and pulled another girl in and she might have an STI, she's going to give that girl that's been in house an STI. And so that comes down to protecting the customers and our ladies as well.

Yeah. So in my understanding, and also in speaking with sex workers from around the world, because I teach study abroad courses on sex and culture, brothels tend to have pretty tightly regulated security protocols, right? Because there's a lot that you need to account for in terms of protecting the health and the safety of the workers and also, you know, ensuring the wellbeing of the clients and customers. And so it is in everybody's best interest to

have security protocols that you follow and to make sure that if there is an emergency or something that it is responded to very promptly. And so, yeah, it's also a very common practice, like you said, to have alarms or panic buttons or things like that that are in the private rooms so that there is a way for the worker to alert the staff that there is a problem and that they might need some help.

But no matter how many safety precautions you take, you're always going to have some people who come in who are drunk, who are rude, or who aren't respectful of the workers. And hopefully it's rare. But how do you deal with problematic clients? And do you ever have to ban people from the brothel who don't follow the rules? Every now and then, it's not as popular as you think. Customers see the heavy amount of security that we have here.

Our security team trains and they are amazing. And I almost call it verbal judo because instead of going like we have a no cell phone rule in the bar because we don't want customers taking pictures of girls. I don't want girls having their phones out and taking pictures of other ladies so nobody can have their phones out.

And so you're right, we'll get bachelor parties in here and it might be that one drunk guy that keeps taking his phone out and security has approached him 10 times. And so now me being the female or I have parlor hostesses, sometimes that women's approach, hey, I understand, like I'm constantly on my phone, but let's put your phone away and I'll buy you a drink and let's focus on all the beautiful ladies that are around here. Let me buy you some lunch or some dinner. So we try and decompress that situation

If there is an incident, then we just ask him to sit out in his car and wait for his friends or we'll call him a cab, get him home safely. We really don't have major problems. And if and when we do, our sheriff's department is amazing. They respond with kindness and respect. I had a lady not too long ago that had a really bad stalker boyfriend. And she was getting all these messages on her phone. And she's like, I don't know how he found out I was here.

And so I go out because I've had this happen before. I go out to her car, get under her car, and there's three trackers under her car, which she had no idea they were there. So now he's threatening he's going to come out here. And so I called the sheriff's department because she was terrified of him. And bless our sheriff, he had a deputy out here within minutes. That deputy sat out at our gate for 12 hours waiting for this individual to show up. And so we have an amazing support team.

people around us that are here for us when situations do arrive.

Yeah, and it's great that you have a positive relationship with local law enforcement, right? Because that is really so important in terms of protecting the workers and also ensuring that things don't get out of hand with customers who might be drunk or unruly in other ways. So I'm curious, what do you think are some of the biggest misconceptions that people have about brothels and people who work in the sex industry? So, you know, as somebody who has worked inside this industry for years, what do people get wrong about it?

I think a lot of misconception is that these girls are on drugs and that they're just doing this for fast money. I think that's the biggest two that I hear, which, you know, I understand that a lot of working girls are doing this for money. We all do this because we all need jobs, but

The ladies here are very compassionate about what they do. They love making connections and getting to know their clientele and helping people. And again, we're a drug-free facility. All the girls sign paperwork about confidentiality and that if we think they're on something, we can drug test them at any time.

And so I know marijuana is prevalent all over the world. I'm looking for the more harder drugs. I don't want that in our brothel whatsoever. I come from back in the day when that was a big thing in the 90s. And so I'm like, I don't want that headache. But if you come in here, I will help fix you. We've had girls come in here and

And I've searched the room and they've had stuff in their room. And then I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to fire her and send her out. And then I take a minute. I'm like, okay, if I do this, that's not who I am. I'm not helping her. I'm just going to send her right back out into the wolves. And I have a young lady here. It's been with me for six years because we helped her. We got her clean, took her to a facility and she is thriving better than she ever has in her life.

Yeah, very much playing that done mother role that we talked about. So how has working in the sex industry changed your views on human sexuality and relationships? I mean, I imagine working in this environment might have shaped your perspectives in various ways. Maybe, for example, you had different views or perspectives when you first came into it than you do now. So how have things changed? How do you see things differently now with regard to sex and relationships?

It's changed my mind immensely because back in the day, in the 90s, it was just about partying and making your money and who cares about connections. And when I came here, it was just a whole completely different vibe.

helping people and be able to talk about sex and it's not a taboo and if somebody comes in here and wants a domination party like we can make that work like let's talk about it let's talk about the do's and the don'ts and the red light the green light and it

It's really made me in my own personal life, take things more serious and have the conversation with these ladies about boundaries and teaching them like this is okay to talk about. Nothing is taboo. If somebody comes in here and wants a kink, that's okay. And if you're not comfortable doing it, then let's grab a girl who specializes in it. It's nothing is taboo. They're coming in here to fulfill a fantasy. And so it just really opens your mind and your heart about talking about these things.

Yeah, I can definitely understand that. And I think that's true for people who work

Across the sex industry and also in the fields of sex research and education and therapy, it's sort of the more you learn about diversity in human sexuality, the more you come to understand and appreciate that diversity and that not everybody wants or enjoys the same things. And just because somebody likes something that's different from you, that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. That's okay. It's just different. Exactly. I also have to ask, I'm curious, you know, as a brothel madam, how do other people react when they find out your line of work?

When I first started, they were just like, oh, you're the madam of the Mustang. Like, oh my God. But now everyone's...

They're almost intrigued. Like they want more information. Like, how long have you been there? And kind of like this conversation now, give me all the information. Can I come out there and take a tour? Fourth of July, I was wearing my sweatshirt down at the fireworks in Reno. And some, a lady approached me and she's like, well, that place has been shut down since the nineties. I'm like, no, here's my card. I'm still, I'm the madam there. And she's like, there's no way.

I'm like, well, you're 15 minutes away. Come on out, I'll buy it. And she came out literally that next week and was shocked we were still open and how much we've grown. And we took her on a tour, bought her lunch. We do huge lunch tours. We get groups of 100 people that come out here and do luncheons and tours to get educated on the place. And there's a mystery tour bus that comes out every summer and the people don't tell them where they're going.

And then you're always like, oh my gosh, these people are going to be like, I'm staying on the bus. I'm staying on the bus. And at first you can see people are almost like, they're quiet and they're walking in. But once the ladies start talking to them and giving them their tours, then they start opening up and start asking more questions like, okay, I need to learn about this before I judge this.

And that's why I try and teach the public, like if you've never been out here, that's not fair that you're judging us. If you want to talk about us and think you know about us, then come out here and take a tour. Come educate yourself first before you judge anybody.

Yeah. And it gets back to, I think, what we were saying earlier about how people have lots of stereotypes about brothels and sex work in general. And the reality of it can be very, very different from those stereotypes. Absolutely. This has been so fascinating, Tara. I'm looking forward to continuing our conversation in the next episode and diving even deeper into the world of legal brothels. Yay. Thank you. Can you please tell my listeners where they can go to learn more about you and your work?

Yes, they can go to our website, MustangRanch.com. I got to read my Instagram. Let's see. It's MadamTara underscore Mustang Ranch, or I'm on TikTok now and it's MadamTaraExit28. Well, thanks. And I'll be sure to include links to all of that in the show notes. Thank you again for your time. I really appreciate having you here. Thank you for having me so much. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you for listening. To keep up with new episodes of this podcast, visit my website, sexandpsychology at sexandpsychology.com or subscribe on your favorite platform where I hope you'll take a moment to rate and review the show. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, please consider becoming a Sex and Psychology Premium subscriber to enjoy ad-free listening for just $3.99 a month.

You can also follow me on social media for daily sex research updates. I'm on Blue Sky and X at Justin Laymiller and Instagram at Justin J. Laymiller. Also, be sure to check out my book, Tell Me What You Want. Thanks again for listening. Until next time.