Episode 387: An Inside Look at a World Famous Brothel
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You're listening to the Sex and Psychology Podcast, the sex ed you never got in school and won't get anywhere else. I am your host, Dr. Justin Lehmiller. I am a social psychologist and research fellow at the Kinsey Institute and author of the book, Tell Me What You Want, The Science of Sexual Desire and How It Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life. In the previous episode, we spoke with the madam of a legal brothel in the US state of Nevada. We talked all about how she found herself in this world and what it's like to manage a brothel.

And it was super fascinating. In today's show, we're going to peel back the sheets a bit further and talk about the courtesans who live and work in the brothel selling sexual services, as well as the customers who patronize this establishment. It turns out that being a brothel worker requires a pretty unique skill set. Simply being physically attractive isn't enough. So what kind of skills do you need in order to be successful in this line of work?

We're also going to talk about what a typical day is like for a courtesan, the kind of training they need to get before working there, and what their experiences are like. In addition, we'll explore the wide range of customers who visit Legal Brothels, which will probably surprise you, as well as what customers are really looking for. It turns out that more often than not, the patrons are looking for more than just efficient sex. I am joined once again by Tara Adkins, who has served as the madam of the world-famous Mustang Ranch for 17 years.

As the madam of this property, Tara is responsible for hiring and training the courtesans. Additionally, she provides counsel to the women, offering support on financial and personal matters to ensure their success as independent contractors and beyond. This is going to be another really fascinating episode. Stick around and we're going to jump in right after the break. ♪

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Okay, Tara. So in the last episode, we talked all about what it's like to manage a brothel. In today's show, we're going to dive into what the brothel experience is actually like for both workers and patrons. So let's start by talking a little bit about who visits your brothel. You know, I think a lot of people probably have certain stereotypes or ideas about brothel visitors, but the clientele is probably a lot more diverse than people assume. So tell us a little bit about your client base and the range of visitors that you see.

Oh boy, there is all walks of life. We get the bachelor parties in. We get a lot of couples in. We get women, we get men, we get disabled people. I had a lady come in that was in a wheelchair. Her provider brought her in. And one of my coworkers at the time got a phone call from one of our courtesans and said, I really want to take this lady back, but I don't know what to do for her.

And so we told her, well, she can still feel on her face, on her lips, on her cheek. You can touch her where she can feel your human touch is important. Take her to the toy cabinet, pick out a toy and just take your time with her. Give her a massage, communicate where she can feel. Wash her hair, brush her hair, kiss her cheeks or her ears, her hands. To see that lady smile after she came out with that lady was,

was so heartwarming. I almost want to cry. I have another set of parents that their son, he's 32 now. He was in a car accident when he was 17 or 18 and he's disabled from the neck down. They are from New York and they did huge research and they come up here twice a year now.

Like the wife said, I know my son has means. I can't take him to a bar to go hit on a lady. I don't want to call somebody to the house that I don't know, I don't trust and hasn't been tested and all of the things. And so they've been regulars for over 12 years now. I have another gentleman that was in the war and he was burned all of his left side. He

He's been a regular for years and he'll tell you the same thing. I can go to a bar downtown Reno and not one person is going to come sit next to me, but they're going to sit across the bar and they're going to stare at me. When I walk in this bar, I am welcomed with open arms and hugs. And it's a community of people that know me and appreciate me for who I am inside and not on the outside. The couples, I have couples that come in where their marriage is on the verge of destruction.

And we've saved marriages. Just recently, we had a guy come out here. He's been married. I can't remember what the email said. I think he said 12 years and their sex life has just went to shit. And so, and the wife knew he was coming out here.

And so he had a wonderful party with a lady. And now I get these emails from the wife saying that we saved the marriage, that it is such a turn on for her and her husband to talk about what happened here in this private room, that their sex life has just skyrocketed. I mean, there's I could tell you so many amazing stories about the people that come in here.

Yeah, thanks for sharing all of that. You know, I've heard a lot of stories over the years from people who have visited brothels that I think would be surprising to a lot of people. You know, for example, I've heard from folks who have visited brothels who weren't really looking for sex so much as they really wanted instruction on how to be a better lover or how to level up their sexual technique. And so they really wanted to learn from an expert and somebody who

really knows what they're doing when it comes to sex. We get a lot of virgins out here. Absolutely. That are of course, a rage rating, but they want to know how to be and do before they go out in the world and actually be with somebody. So you're absolutely right.

Yeah, you know, surprising fact about history that a lot of people don't know is that, you know, if you look back in time, you know, in like the 1930s, 40s or so, actually one of the most common ways that men lost their virginity was by paying for sex, right? It actually used to be this very normative thing because at that particular point in time,

attitudes toward premarital sex were very negative. And, you know, there was much less social acceptance of it. People were having a lot less sex outside of marriage. And so sex work became an avenue for a lot of men to have their very first sexual experience. But I've also heard from people, parents who have actually taken their adult children to brothels to lose their virginity specifically because they wanted their kid to have their first sexual experience with someone who can teach them about sex and consent and who can help them to build up their confidence.

So yeah, it's a very surprisingly diverse clientele of people who stroll through the door of a place like yours. Yes, it is. So for the people who visit your establishment, what are they looking for? You know, I think this is an important question to ask because there's a common assumption about sex work that people are just looking for efficient sex, like get in, have sex, get out. And while that might be true for some people, I think a lot of folks are looking for more. So what are your customers looking for?

And you're right. That is a small percentage. A lot of people walk in the store, they're looking for that human touch again. They're looking just...

to go on a date, go to town and have dinner and come back and lay in bed and cuddle and watch a movie together. The quick sex is very small percentage, very small. And they're looking for that to learn, like you said. And yeah, you know, I don't know. I've lost my will of how to go down on a lady. Can you teach me? And all of the things or women come in here, wives, um,

I haven't given my husband a blow job in so long. I forgot the technique. And so they come in and they get a how to do class and then they end up being regulars. And so, yeah, the quick sex is a very small percentage. We have a lot of regulars here.

that have lost their wives and they're older and they just, they're not going to go out and get remarried again. And so they have five or six regular girls that they come and see because they miss that human touch. They miss being with a woman and just touching somebody. Again, it comes down to that human touch. Yeah. And touch is something that is incredibly powerful. And, you know, I talk a lot as a sex and relationship researcher about the importance of touch in relationships. And when

When there's less touch that's present in relationships, that can be a big contributing factor to relationship dissatisfaction. It can also reduce opportunities for other forms of intimacy. Touch just plays this very powerful role in feeling connected to others, in part because when we experience that touch, it releases chemicals in the brain like oxytocin that make us feel good, make us feel a sense of bonding.

with other people. Yeah, so touch is super important. And also that emotional connection piece I think is really important too, right? For a lot of people, when it comes to sex, they kind of need to feel that emotional connection to another person or they need to feel like that other person desires them in some way. And so, you know, spending time together first

Just through talking and building that connection can be an important prelude to sex for a lot of people. You know, I think there's this stereotype of male sexuality that, you know, men are just always ready to go and, you know, can do it anytime, anyplace. But, you know, the reality is that a lot of guys need to feel desired and they need to, you know, sort of feel that sense of connection with someone else in order to have sex with them.

So that comes into play a lot here with our bar and our restaurant. When the ladies are on shifts, that's where they hang out. And so...

That's where the connections happen. And that's why I try and teach the customers like sit down with a lady, have some lunch or a drink and make sure you have that connection with her first before you go back here and go talk privately or go on tour. And you'll see that in the bar. You'll see a guy talking to a lady for 15, 20, 30 minutes. And then he's like, oh, I think I'm going to go and try and talk to this lady. And connection is so important.

It really is. Especially when you step into that bedroom, you want to have that connection instead of just walking into the bedroom. And sometimes it is a thing where you just want to walk into that bedroom and rip off your clothes and go at it. Absolutely. But connection is huge.

Yeah. So speaking of motivations for visiting a brothel, you know, as someone who has studied sexual fantasies extensively, I found that there's usually a pretty big gap between fantasy and reality. So most people have fantasies that they want to act out, but they've never tried it in real life for various reasons. And it's often because they're too ashamed or embarrassed to even tell someone else what their fantasy is, or they're worried that somebody is going to judge them for it.

So some people seek out sex workers to fulfill their fantasies because they see it as a safer avenue where they don't have to worry about feeling judged or shamed by someone else for their sexual interests. So tell us a little bit about that and how brothels can be a place where people can go to bring their fantasies to life.

Absolutely, they can. Nobody will judge anybody here. It's a private conversation between those two people. There's nothing taboo about anything. This is where we want you to come and tell us your fantasies. And again, not all the girls will be into this.

you know, doing a certain fantasy, but we always have another girl that does. The one girl might not want to party with a couple or another female, but these 10 ladies right here are going to. Nothing is taboo. You know a thing. And that's why we love when people come in here and they're honest about their fantasies and you don't have to be embarrassed. Nobody's going to judge you here. We are the last people that are going to judge anybody. The last. Yeah.

Odds are they've probably heard your fantasy before, so they're not going to be shocked or surprised by it. Very true. Very true. I've seen some crazy things, yeah. But fun things, absolutely.

I'm sure. So it sounds like you have a lot of repeat or regular customers, people who come back oftentimes for many, many years because you're providing a service that's important in their life in some way. So I'm just sort of curious about what is the proportion of people who visit who are like repeat customers versus like influx of bachelor parties and a whole bunch of fresh faces?

That's an interesting question. If I was going to guess, I would probably say that our repeat customers are down near 30-40%. We get a lot like I walk in here daily, and we'll see a regular in the bar. Like that's daily and I'm here six, seven days a week.

And we get appointments. All the girls have their own personal emails. And so people are constantly calling the office to make appointments, repeat appointments with these ladies too. And then of course, on the weekends, the Fridays and Saturdays, you get the uptake of the party animals, the people come into Reno and want to have a good time. And so I think that would be a fair assumption to say, you know, anywhere from 30 to 40% of repeat customers. And then you get all the new people.

That's a testament to your business if you have that many people coming back over and over. In the beginning of a relationship, partners often can't keep their hands off of each other. But over time, intimate touch has a way of declining, which can leave partners feeling out of sync. This is why it's really important to find ways of interjecting more touch into your intimate life. And one simple way to do that is through massage. But if you don't know what you're doing, a massage can be irritating instead of relaxing. So how can you give an unforgettable massage?

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Check the show notes for the link and be sure to use my last name to claim your discount. So we've talked a bit about the customers. Let's talk now a little bit about the workers. So tell us a little bit about the courtesans who work at your establishment. So there are a wide diversity of ladies that come from all over the world, all over the world. They're all different in their own little special ways. I have ladies that have been here with me since 2015.

To brand new girls, to girls that have been here within the year, to six months. I mean, I am dealing with probably over 60 women at this point and still getting applications. Wow. Still. And they're all different. Some women are going to school, taking their courses online. Some have businesses that, you know, this helps do things for their businesses, but

They're all here because they like the connections with people too. They're caregivers, they're sex therapists. They're here to provide a service, but they also love making their connections with their customers and building that rapport with them. It is amazing to hear their stories every day that, I'm like, God, I met this couple and this wife is so sweet. And they tell you these lovely stories. Every day you're hearing a new story about their connections they make.

Yeah, you know, it's so interesting to hear you say that because a lot of what is said about sex workers is that no one would ever voluntarily choose that profession, that it's always an option of last resort. And, you know, the reality is that many sex workers actually do enjoy their jobs, but

Particularly when you look at the research on how sex workers feel about their jobs, it really depends on the working conditions. And are they working in a legal environment and are there safety protocols and other things like that in place? And when sex workers work in places where it is legal and where it is safe for

for them. Many workers do report enjoying that experience and end up getting into the profession simply because they like the work and not just about the money. So yeah, it kind of runs contrary to some of the stereotypes that people have about sex work in general. Absolutely, it does. Now, for the women who work at your brothel, are they all heterosexual? So how does their sexuality play out in all of this?

That's a mixture of ladies, all walks of life. Like I said, some have wives at home, girlfriends at home.

husbands at home. Some have a girlfriend and a boyfriend at home. It's just, it's a mixture. Sometimes it can get messy, but I, if a girl comes there and has a girlfriend and the girlfriend wants to come here and work, I try not to do that. Cause in the past, you can see that their problems arise. There's jealousy that arise. So I try like, if your girlfriend wants to come and work here, that's okay. But let's have her on a separate tour date than you are.

And then they're also with all of the employees here. There's no fraternizing either. And so the girls can't go head on security. We have very strict guidelines in place for that too. So there's absolutely no fraternizing because back in the nineties, they didn't care about that. And you would see a fistfight all week long because one girl was jealous because he's sleeping with the bartender and sleeping with the cook. And I'm like, no fraternizing. No. Yeah.

Yeah, I can imagine how that could get complicated. Yes. So, you know, I would also imagine that being a Bralta worker requires a pretty unique skill set because this job requires a lot more, as we've discussed, than simply providing sexual services. You know, a lot of the clients are looking for that deeper connection. And so just being really good looking or attractive or super hot isn't enough. So what are some of the traits or characteristics you're looking for in a courtesan who's going to be successful?

She's got to have a brain. She's got it. Like you're right. I've seen the most beautiful women in here and just not make a dollar, but they don't have anything to conversate about, about a good book or what the world is like on the outside of anything. And so,

A lot of these ladies are so highly educated. It's amazing the diversity of women that are here and how educated they are. When you walk out in that bar every day, you're gonna see at least 12 ladies reading a new book. And there's even a book club here at the Mustang where the ladies trade books.

Or I have one lady that sits there and does art and make bracelets for everybody and who is an amazing artist with her painting and everything that she does. And so you're absolutely right. You've got to have something inside you, a skill set that you've got to bring here because beauty is not everything. That is only skin thick.

Yeah. I love that there's a brothel book club. Yes, there is. We have a little library. You guys should put out a reading list. I'm sure it would be popular. That's a great idea. But yeah, I mean, you're so right that in order to forge these connections with the customers, you have to have something to talk about. And you also have to have interesting things about yourself, like hobbies or interests that you can discuss as well. And you also just kind of have to be gifted at conversation. Like it's not

easy for a lot of people to make small talk. And so, yeah, you've just got to be very comfortable at putting other people at ease and also, you know, carrying the conversation because it's not necessarily the case that all the customers are going to be at ease when they're there. Some of them might be a little bit nervous. And so you as the worker might have to really carry that conversation in order to get them to feel more comfortable and safe and at ease. So it's a job that isn't for everyone, for sure.

You're very right about that. The lady's got to be able to break that ice because we do we get people in here that are so extremely nervous. And so the ladies, the way they approach them and break the ice is it's beautiful to watch. It really is. So in the last episode, we talked about a day in the life of a brothel manager. So tell us now about what a day in the life of a courtesan at the Mustang Ranch looks like. What's it like to work there?

For the ladies, like they will start with day shifts. You'll see probably about three or four of the ladies get up about six o'clock in the morning and some of them will meet outside by the pool and start doing a little yoga class. And then the other four or five will be in the gym working out. Then they'll get their breakfast and then go in the rooms and take their showers. And then they sign in for their shift and then they go out into the bar and

And it's amazing just to walk in here every day because right when you walk through the front door, you smell the ladies, you smell the showers, you see the smiles, you see the towels on their head, the little slippers and the robes and either night shift is getting ready to go to bed and they're like, good night, Madame Dara. And they're tired. And so we just play catch up in the morning with everybody. We have a beautiful parlor with a fireplace. Yeah.

And so that's where the night shift is getting off and day shift is coming on. And so you see all the ladies like, how was your night? I hope you have a great day. Here's what we dealt with last night. And so everybody kind of plays catch up every morning too. The funny story, the other morning I come in through the back door and we have the dungeon kind of where back where we all park. And so as soon as I opened the door, I'm hearing this blasting music and it's seven o'clock in the morning.

And so I turn and look and so I see a naked girl in her little butt cheeks. I'm like, this is my, I love my job. Good morning. And she turns around and she's got a strap on on. I'm like, what kind of night did you have? She goes, oh, it's still going. I'm like, okay.

And then I come around the corner to the office and I got a gentleman's down there in a towel and seven ladies naked with strap ons on because he had planned this orgy for seven years. And he finally came in and I'm just like, this is, I love my job. This is what it's all about is just, this is amazing. So you never know what a day in the life of the Mustang is going to give you.

Strap-on orgy, yeah. Talk about making your fantasies come to life. And he, oh my gosh, he was so happy. He's planning his next one already. So I'm curious as to what the training process is for a new courtesan. You know, I imagine there's probably a bit of a learning curve involved. So what kind of training do you give your workers to ensure that they're prepared for the job? Or how do you create a supportive environment for them to help them succeed?

Training is very, very, very important. So after she medically clears and gets her brothel permit, now she can go into the public area. So before that, we do extensive training. We call it DC training, which is dick training. And for couples, vagina training too. So I have a doll and I named him Chad.

I should have pulled him out. So he's a silicone doll and he doesn't have a head, but it's just the torso and a very large penis and balls and all the things.

And so we come into my office in a private setting and I teach her what to look for. Because after you negotiate, you come to an agreement on a price, you're going to do a visual check, whether it's a female or a male. And so even some of the ladies are like, I know what I'm looking for. I'm like, I need you to sign off. I need to do this training. I've had ladies come in that have done independents that let...

guys put their own condoms on. And that worries me because you don't know if somebody is going to be fictitious and tear a hole or put it on accidentally upside down. And so doing that DC training is very important and condom training. Sizing is very important. We have all kinds of sizes of condoms here and penises. And so we have to talk about that too.

vagina checks too, we have to go into that. And some of the ladies will say, well, I'm not going to party with a couple ever. And then it's like a week later. Well, can we go back to that vagina training? Cause now I'm kind of interested in partying with a couple. And so then we have to come back in here and we have to talk and go through all the training. And so training could last a day, it could last three days.

Some ladies still want that negotiation training where they want me in that room helping her or another girl that's been here for five years plus. And then even if she's on her own and she thinks that she sees something visual, she'll get a second DC. So she'll come grab me or again, somebody that's been here longer to go give her a second DC as well. So training's always ongoing. Even ladies that have been here for a year, they'll come in and say, how's my numbers? And

Can I change anything in negotiation? And so we go through and we talk about how to upsell. We talk about how different negotiation skills that she can trade up and how to make a person feel at ease in that room instead of sitting on that couch in your body language. And so training is always ongoing. Always, always.

Yeah. And so for a brothel worker, they kind of need to have the right skill set to begin with, but then they also need some extensive training. It's not enough that you just like show up and you get to work right away. There's a lot of ropes that you need to learn here first. Yes. A lot, a lot, a lot. So I'm very proud of our training. I'm very proud.

So is working in a brothel typically a short-term thing or do people stick around for years? You know, it sounds like it can be a pretty demanding job and it's easy to see how some people might get burned out from it rather quickly. I'm sure, of course, there's a wide range of experiences, but how long do people usually stick around? There's a wide diversity. Again, I have a couple of ladies here that have been here

10 years, 7 years, 12 years. I have other girls that have been here for 5 years and have gone on to be nurses or lawyers. One lady just became a lawyer. It just depends on everybody's story. I do have a few ladies that love this industry and they just stay here.

I don't think it's very stressful because a lot of girls will do two weeks on. I have another lady that travels from Puerto Rico. And so she'll come in and stay for a month. And then she's been gone for eight months. And bless her heart, she's taking care of her mom that has cancer. But she started this industry before her mom got sick because she loves this industry. But now this is helping her pay for her mom's treatments and stuff too. And so she's been here since 2017.

But again, you're dealing with so many women and so many different stories and it's up to them. I know when somebody is getting to a burnout stage and that's when I have a conversation with them. I have one lady that started here and was a working girl for four years and decided she really didn't like sex anymore.

Did she like the connections she made here? Absolutely. She didn't want to leave the industry. And so I said, well, what about being a cashier or a parlor hostess? She stayed here with me for six years and then it was time for her to move on to go do other things.

And so it sounds like just as in any other profession, it's all about having the right work-life balance so that you can avoid the burnout and other things like that. We're running short on time, but I have one more question for you that I'm sure some of my listeners are wondering about, which is whether you ever employ men as brothel workers.

So our brothel ordinance does not allow that at this time. In the future, is that something we can look at? Absolutely. We can discuss that with the owners, but then we would have to change all the wording in the brothel ordinance, go up in front of a county commission and see if they approve that. It's not something we're against. It's just something that is not in our brothel ordinance at this time.

You know, and I've heard in the past they tried to have some male sex workers at some of the brothels in Nevada, but it was a very short-lived experiment. They just didn't seem to generate quite enough business in order to stay afloat. I think that might be a part of it. Is there just not enough business? Do we get requests of women coming in here for that? We do, but not like we do for the women that are here.

And maybe because men don't have the stamina like women do. I'm just kidding. Yeah, I think there could be various reasons for it. And for me, sort of the first thing that comes to mind is if you think about who would hire or pay for a male sex worker, well, women's interest in paying for sex on average is much lower than men's is. And there certainly are

women, some women who hire male sex workers. And, you know, they often do it for the same reasons that men do, because they're looking for some connection with someone else. So the demand might just be a little bit lower. But, you know, there's also gay men who could be a potential audience for that. But it's a lot easier for gay men to find casual sex for free than it is for heterosexual men. And so that might also be part of the story, too, in terms of like why male brothels are just so much more of a rarity compared to female brothels.

Yep, I agree. I agree 100%. Well, thank you so much for this amazing conversation, Tara. It was a pleasure to have you here. Can you please tell my listeners where they can go to learn more about you and your work?

Yes, they can go to our website, MustangRanch.com. I got to read my Instagram. Let's see. It's MadamTara underscore Mustang Ranch, or I'm on TikTok now and it's MadamTaraExit28. Well, thanks. And I'll be sure to include links to all of that in the show notes. Thank you again for your time. I really appreciate having you here. Thank you for having me so much. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you for listening. To keep up with new episodes of this podcast, visit my website, sexandpsychology at sexandpsychology.com or subscribe on your favorite platform where I hope you'll take a moment to rate and review the show. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, please consider becoming a Sex and Psychology Premium subscriber to enjoy ad-free listening for just $3.99 a month.

You can also follow me on social media for daily sex research updates. I'm on Blue Sky and X at Justin Laymiller and Instagram at Justin J. Laymiller. Also, be sure to check out my book, Tell Me What You Want. Thanks again for listening. Until next time.