Stacey Harris and Teri Zipper - HR Tech 2024 - Compensation and the Evolving Workplace
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The world of business is more complex than ever. The world of human resources and compensation is also getting more complex. Welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast, your direct source for the latest trends from experts inside and outside the world of human resources.

Listen as we explore the impact that compensation strategy, data, and people analytics can have on your organization. This podcast is sponsored by Salary.com, your source for data, technology, and consulting for compensation and beyond. Now, here are your hosts, David Teretsky and Dwight Brown.

Hello and welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast. I'm your host, David Teretsky. We're coming live from the 2024 HR Technology Show in beautiful Mandalay Bay Exposition Center. All right, let's start that again. Exposition Center in Las Vegas, Nevada. No, we're going to keep this in. This is a good one. I have with me three of the most brilliant minds in the world of HR and HR technology. Yes, Stacey Harris, Terry Zipper, and Susan Richards is over there.

She's just standing there, but she's going to pop in, I think. And yes, we did also talk to her separately, but we love Sapien Insights and here they are. And I am so excited. Hello, Stacey. Hello. It's good to be back here. Yes, we're very excited to have you here. Hello, Terry. Hi, David. It's great to be back. Hey, Susan over there. So this has been a heck of a show.

It's been gigantic. There's a lot of energy here. There's a lot of people talking, a lot of buzz. And a lot of the buzz happens to be from not only Terry and Danielle Bouchon did a really phenomenal job on data governance, which kind of started the show, which they kicked butt in that presentation. And then Stacey Harris brought the house down with her results of the HR technology survey. I mean, how do you bookend a really phenomenal conference without things like that? Okay.

I don't, I can say, I don't know. It's a perfect marriage, right? Of things that fit together. But yeah, it's been a really good show. We enjoyed our time. I think we've had a lot of good questions, which is nice to see. And we've always also had a lot of, I think, of opportunity to talk to a lot of people. Our feet are tired though. Yes. Well, and for those of you who've been to Mandalay Bay, you know that it is a mile to get from the hotel to,

to the conference. And then in the conference, going places, like if you're going to breakout sessions, they're not around the corner. They're like far away. And for those of you who haven't seen the show today, it

You can actually look down the aisles and it like looks like forever because this is a gigantic show this year. It is. And what's with the extra mileage they added to get to the expo floor? Another doorway. Right. I don't know. I think it may be because there's that other show that's happening here at the same time or they're preparing for. Yeah, could be. But good Lord. Yeah.

So, and next year it's going to be here again. So we're going to do the exact same thing next year. A week earlier. They're getting us out here earlier in our every year, I think. So it'll be extra hot again. And that means we got to close the survey a week earlier or something. We got to close the survey a week earlier, yes. Tammy's already got it calculated in. Wow. We had this conversation. Yeah, for anybody who takes our survey, you know, we have a pretty good time crunch trying to get everything done and to this event, which is why it's, we tie closely to when the survey ends to when we get here. Yeah.

Good luck with that next year. I'm really sorry. Yeah. So get your responses in quicker, please. Please. So why don't we start the conversation? But first, I need to know what's one fun thing that no one knows about the two of you. Stacey, you're going first. Yeah. Um,

Don't think everybody knows this. I've said it once or twice maybe on the show, but not particularly. My kids like to do D&D. Oh, yeah. And so probably one thing a lot of people don't know about me is that I was in the growing up age of computers back in the day. I was a girl gamer. So I loved my video games. I spent a lot of time on them. And so as my kids have gotten into doing D&D over the last couple of years, they're older, grown kids.

The family's of their own. Right. But they have incorporated me in from time to time, so I get to be a very awesome wizard from time to time. There you go. That's awesome. I make those kind of things. So that's kind of cool. You don't usually know about that unless you're in part of my family. That's cool. My kids love D&D, too, so I'm with you. That's great. Yeah, man.

Terry, you got to come up with something as good as that. I feel like I've done this show so many times, I've given away all the things that nobody knows about me. That's not true. But I did find out there was something that Stacey and I had uniquely in common that we're both Star Trek geeks. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, we'll geek out after. That's a fun one. Yeah. When Terry started telling me that she was Star Trek, I was like, no way.

way. We started comparing. Did you see the last season of Picard? I did. It was awesome. Last episode, I cried. How could you not? Of course. Don't give it away. Spoiler alert. Stacey's giving it away. Yeah, there wasn't a dry eye in the house. And by the way, it wasn't because people died. It was because of something else. Yeah. Yeah.

So let's get on with the podcast because we're going to have a lot of fun today. Because one of the things we're going to cover is the evolution of HR and HR technology. What has been happening that doesn't have a two-letter initial that we can shock people with that isn't artificial intelligence? Is there anything else that's been evolving that's been happening besides just AI? Yes, let's put that. Excellent.

Terry, you want to go first? You want me to tackle this one? No, you go first. All right. Well, so this is actually funny. When I was in my Ask the Expert session, one of the ladies came up to me. Really good question. She's from IT. She's gotten into HR and H-R-I-T role. And her question was, why doesn't HR and H-R-I-T do things like IT does? And I said, well, there's a lot of reasons why we do things very differently. I said, a lot of it has to do with the fact that our systems touch everything.

everyone and that it has so much regulations and compliance. It's like, well, IT systems do too. I'm like, yeah, you'll learn there's going to be a lot more than you expect. I think the biggest evolution really has been this, um,

This change from the system of record, which we've had for a long time, and the conversation has been about getting one source of data and everything all in one, into the idea that we just need to get a better way for our data to go back and forth. And that, I think, has been the biggest transition I've seen in the last several years. And I think a lot of the conversation about having one source of data came from IT with the idea of data warehouses. And I'm like...

We can't keep everything in one system. The world we live in is just too complex. But we can make it easier to get data in and out of things. Well, nowadays with APIs, it has become much easier. But in the old days, it was all plain flat files, right? Yes. Oh, yeah. And nightmares because the reporting system would break. It would, you know. And just a hint from the research, there's still a lot of that out there. There's still a lot of flat files. Oh, my gosh, yes. I was laughing when you said that about transfer.

you know, how has HR tech evolved? And we were in a demo this morning and

somehow got on the topic of these old DOS systems, right? It's like, oh my God, my first system was CompMaster for DOS. Oh my God. You know, I was actually working on... That was Mercer, right? Oh yeah. Oh my God, yeah. So it has evolved significantly from like the dot prompt and, you know, things like that in DOS to what we have today in the cloud. But

At the same time, there's still a lot of the same problems, right? The data challenges, they're hard. But we'll continue to try to keep solving them, right? But one of the things that I've been talking about a little bit is compensation really hasn't evolved too much. We're still doing job evaluation. Some are actually still doing point factor. Yeah. Yes. We're still doing salary ranges. We're still talking about spreads and midpoint progressions and everything.

how do we slot jobs in and benchmark jobs and things like that. And we're still using, because they're really sources of truth, surveys or somewhat sources of truth. But that really hasn't evolved. So the systems may have innovated, but the artifacts we're creating are still the same ones we've been using since the 70s and 80s. So I guess the question is, while IT and HR have certainly evolved,

Our processes, and I'm talking beyond even comp, our processes are really rooted in the past, aren't they? They are. And I think, and this is what I say, you know, as we get into the AI conversation, right, I always tell people that

But HR is not changing. HR still has to do what HR has to do, which is bring people into the organization, make sure that they are hired appropriately, make sure we got all the compliance, make sure they're paid appropriately, make sure that they have a talent management process and make sure that they have all the things they need to meet the business needs from a resource perspective. And AI is not going to change that. And I didn't have enough time in my session to kind of do the whole like, like, like AI is not going to fix this because there's nothing to break. Right. Right.

What I think is happening with AI is if we're able to use it appropriately, it will allow us to do a better job of

making that information more available in a way that's more accessible. Because I do think that, to your point, we're doing the same things the same way, which means it's really hard for someone who doesn't understand the history of it to do the job, to get it done. And we know from our data that 58% of people who are in HR IT right now or in HR roles doing IT, they have less than three years of experience. Wow. Right? Right.

So that's my thing, is that yes, they're doing it the same way, and that's the problem because we can't access the data, right? Actually, that's kind of cool, though. If we're getting people who come into HRIT from outside, maybe they're going to push us to do things a little differently. Yes.

This is the first year we've finally seen, it's only about 2%, but 2% of the people who responded to the survey and who are in the HR function that we're working with are Gen Zs. Wow. Yeah. This is an eye-opener for some vendors who were like, our name is just not out there. And I was like, well, you don't understand. These

These people don't, they don't know a lot of the vendors because they've only been in the space for one to three years. And so, you know, you've got a lot of work to do from a marketing perspective to get people to know you. Yeah. Old brand has no bearing on them. They don't care. Yeah.

And actually, it may even be a bad thing. Because if you are the 800-pound gorilla in this thing, and there are startups that are doing new fun things, wow, what are the new fun things? What is it going to do differently? Oh, it's cheaper? Wow. Better terms? Yeah. Oh, it's got AI?

Yeah. But I'm kind of serious because when we talk about HR systems, let's just say like HCM, and we say, oh, well, these are the vendors, these are the vendors, these are the vendors. If they have no background in it, they're starting from a blank slate. They're going to start looking at the HR tech. They're going to walk around. They're going to go, hey, this guy does, or these people do better than those guys. So I might come here first.

They don't have the baggage. They don't have the baggage. And as much as I know every HR vendor likes to say we're different and we're unique, we do know from our data that about 80% of the baseline HR technologies have about the same product, same solution, same approaches. So it's that 20% that makes them unique. And everybody's got a little bit different. But one of the things we noticed this year at the show is there's a lot of investors here.

which we've been hearing a lot of people talk about. I had a couple people talk about how money there are. I think investors are asking questions about why. Is there still a 20% uptick in the market here? And it's no longer Greenfield. I mean, a company is as small as two employees have an HR technology system. Everything's a replacement play, right? Right.

Right. I know. I've kind of been looking at some of these vendors from my own perspective. I'm like, oh, we need that system. We've all been to the center. Like, are we? How many employees do you guys work with? Like what you hear so far? Make sure you never miss a show by clicking subscribe. This podcast is made possible by Salary.com. Now back to the show.

But that's interesting because if we start thinking about all these processes, there's a tax on having another system. And so in the old days, we used to talk best of breed versus one source, one neck to choke, we used to say. But now if I'm adding even two or three, the debt that I'm going to have to, and I'm not talking about just the cost. Yeah.

but the amount of implementation time, the resources, and then the upkeep of those systems. Yeah. I've got to factor that in, don't I? Yeah. I mean, we've been talking about this idea of platform clusters that we're no longer best of breed and we're no longer sort of one shot does everything. Right. But the idea that you create, you're sort of picking one or two or three areas that's really important to you as an organization. Right. You find a pillar in there of a technology and then you work with all their partners and that ecosystem. Right.

And that seems to be the most powerful thing that we're seeing actually get you better outcomes along with doing important things like change management, along with having a strategy. So it's not the only fix, but it's one of them. So what you're saying is use the marketplaces, choose a vendor, then look at the marketplaces or actually look at the ecosystem and choose the ecosystem instead of just choosing the vendor first and then going finding the marketplace. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's who has the best tentacles and basically what are you buying? Are you buying the vendor play? Are you buying the marketplace play?

Or are you going to have to put all this stuff together yourself? That's a really brilliant thing. I didn't even think about that. That's great. The other thing that we're seeing is a lot of people right now are looking back at the services equation, right? Like they're teched out. Right. We've got so much tech. Yeah. And, you know, we aren't using a lot of it or a lot of capabilities of the tech, right? It does these things, but we didn't know it or we're not using it or we didn't deploy it.

And at the same time, they have been spending less and less money on services thinking that, well, the technology is going to do it for us. And so there's that balance that needs to be struck between services and tech in order to get the job done and get it done right. So are you thinking that it's because there are so many innovations within these technologies that maybe the company that's implementing doesn't even understand them all and hasn't implemented them because they just don't get it?

Or is it just they said, yeah, we'll get to it, we'll get to it, but just never do? Or maybe a combination of those? Well, I mean, imagine that, you know, you've got this tech. There's all kinds of things happening in the organization. And vendors now in the cloud are doing new releases every month. Right.

Do you even know what's in there? Are people paying attention every single month to what's coming out in the software? No. So, you know, two years down the road, they're calling us up and saying, you know, here are the problems we have. We have these problems. And we're like, well, what software are you using? And they tell us, and we're like, you know...

It does that. Yeah. Right. Right. You just need to deploy it. Like, let's figure out how to deploy that to support your business model. So maybe people just don't even know what they have. There's just so much tech and,

As we've been doing this cohort and some other things within the organization, you know, we're finding out that people's tech stack is huge for HR. I mean, even at the small level, these companies have 13 technologies they're using to do HR. Yeah.

With the same staff or reduced staff. Exactly. So it's overwhelming. And so I think, you know, people are starting to step back and say, okay, let's figure out who can help me get the work done. Right. I mean, you might remember this early days, David. One of the big things that people were always struggling with was reporting. Oh, my gosh, yes. That is still a problem today. Yeah.

You know, you get the system and we're like, oh, yeah, you've got this great system and we built all these reports for you. They don't know what to do with them. They're like, OK, help me figure out what report I need. Like, I need help just understanding what report to build, right?

To tell the story I'm trying to tell. So many times I've been working with clients and that person that used to be that report writer left. Yeah. And now you have this monolith of a gigantic system that you're paying millions of dollars for that you don't have one person in your organization that knows how to extract the value out of it.

And it's penny wise, pound foolish. Yeah. This, I think, is a really crucial issue. And I blame a little bit on the consulting market and on the influencers. I mean, we're all part of this problem. We keep pushing and selling the tech. Yes. Absolutely. Don't give me a smile. I'm part of the solution, though. We keep selling the tech and...

What we need to do is build into that expectation of cost the services. Because that's the problem is that we're like, oh, okay, so you can't afford all the services. Then it'll be this cheap. And no one ever wants to pay more. They want to know the cost they're going to have, the reality. And they have to build that into the front end of it. But they're building an ROI based on the fact that they're going to have less people. Because this thing does it for us. We don't need to worry about it. Once we configure it, it's going to run itself. Exactly.

No, I hear this all the time, though, Stacey. It's like, yeah, I've been in this space for 25 years. I have never seen a technology get rid of people ever. But that's what's going to happen. The bots are going to take over and we're not going to have to have as many HR people because it's all going to do it for us.

Nope. You're just going to have to hire people who have higher levels of compensation because now they're going to have to understand what's inside that black box and how to read it. And that's going to really be important for your regulations and your requirements, right? Exactly. Well, we're going to basically be sending stuff to the EEOC.

or to the Department of Labor that a bot did and nobody's going to check it and then we're going to get in really big trouble for it. No, I'm being facetious, but really that's, if you listen to a lot of the, and you hear it all the time, this is going to save you money. It's going to save you time. It's going to save you resources. Yeah.

I call bullshit on all of that. Okay. Sorry, I used the word. Yeah. Yeah. No explicit reason here. I don't think you can get argument on this side from that conversation. I love AI. I think AI is going to do phenomenal things for our market. It's going to do really great stuff in skills. It's going to do really great stuff in auditing and surfacing things that we can't see because there's just too much data. Right. But it should not replace your total awareness of what's going on in your company. Right.

So instead of being myopic and thinking you're going to save money, why don't you pour that energy into gaining skills, getting people who can do the right, who can do the work, who can manage the AI, who can write the right prompts or who can understand it all.

And then actually be able to take advantage of a lot more and do more with more instead of more with less. That's what I tell people. HR technology is about value creation. It's not about saving money because we've inked all the efficiencies out of HR technologies in the early 80s and 90s when they were first starting putting it in place. 80s might be a little bit too early. 90s and 2000s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, I got you. I got you. But that was done when the first people hit the market, right? Now the next level is value. Right. Yeah.

Hey, are you listening to this and thinking to yourself, man, I wish I could talk to David about this? Well, you're in luck. We have a special offer for listeners of the HR Data Labs podcast, a free half hour call with me about any of the topics we cover on the podcast or whatever is on your mind. Go to salary.com forward slash HRDL consulting to schedule your free 30 minute call today.

Well, and that gets us into our next conversation, which is how important is compensation in the general scheme of HR? Oh, I'm going to let Terry answer that one first.

Well, I mean, it's always been a critical component of HR, right? And obviously now we've got more legislation around it, more requirements and compliance that we have to follow in order to do it right. And we still have a lot of organizations that I'm still amazed at the number of organizations that I walk into who aren't doing ranges or aren't doing some sort of

Their idea of market analysis is very, very basic. And so it hasn't changed that much as we were just talking before the show. But it's a critical component and people are...

At the end of the day, your salary is still one of the most important things to you. You might take a job that pays less because you really, really want to be in that industry, but what they are going to pay you is still going to be important to you. The components that make that up are going to be important to you. Right.

We know that the younger generation is looking at things from a different perspective. Like maybe I want more money to do, you know, for my dog insurance than I care about for my salary. Right. Because that's getting to be a pretty expensive thing to take your dog to the vet. Right. Right. But yeah, I think it's more important than ever. And as we get into the skills conversation more and more.

We are going to have to do some things differently because we don't hurt today. We sort of pay for skills as it relates to a job. Yeah. We don't necessarily pay for skills for the sake of skills. Yeah. And I think that might be the next, you know, frontier from a comp perspective. Yeah.

And I think the hope of that skills for the sake of skills is that that will start to get us to more pay equity, right? Because then we're not looking at what job you held or how long you held it. We're looking at whether or not you can actually do the thing you said you can do. It's coming. It's going to be a ways off. But I think the other thing on how important that compensation conversation is, is that...

We find in our data that compensation is often a conversation everybody's having. They don't know...

that it's a system they need, right? So especially SMB and mid-market is that most of the time they're doing a lot of stuff in spreadsheets and with some outsourced tool they've got or with some company that they're talking to, and they don't realize that there are actually things to manage this. We know you've started to come, others have these solutions. It's kind of one of those, the most important technology you didn't know you ever needed, right? In my sense, because compensation is what

Yeah.

Because now the ability to get pay right, sorry, I'm using our tagline, but now people are going to see it everywhere. I mean, it's going to be on every posting on the web. It's going to be right in everybody's face. So it's no longer a mystery. And the ability to get those things correctly done with the right data, in the right geography, for the right industry, for the right job, for the right skills, right?

That's going to lead to success or failure for the company, not just for the employee and not just for the manager because you can't hide this stuff anymore. And making bad decisions means that person's going to look across the street. They're going to see what the posting says and they're going to go, I'm going over there. They're paying more and I don't have to deal with this crap.

So I think what transparency does is not only does it get us to pay equity because it's not the conversation anymore of, well, you look like you can do the job. I'm going to give you this. We don't get into that anymore. It's more about, hey, this is what the pay range is. And you have really great skills. So I think you belong more at the high end. But before we get there, we're going to do an assessment to see if you can actually do the work. Yeah. And that's where I'm going to place you. Yeah. Yeah.

Without that and without the information to be able to have the pay range right, you know, we're back in the 80s again. Exactly. Yeah. And I don't think any of us want to go back to the 80s. Well, certain people do. The music might be good, but hair, makeup, none of that's going to do any benefit to any of us. No, no. And, you know, there's a lot of other political issues around that, but we're not going to go there.

But seriously, though, I mean, when we talk about compensation and what we're trying to do is we're trying to do the right thing for a lot of people. We're trying to educate people on... And I'm not talking about, again, the company. I'm talking about we need to make sure that people are getting the right information, they're getting the right insight, and they're making the right decisions. And that only happens if you have the right data and the right system. Yeah, the right tools to do it. I think the other thing that we've got to remember on how important compensation is is...

to the process is that it shows up in places that we often forget inside the whole HR model, right? It's part of your time and attendance, right? Especially if you have shift differentials or if you have, that's a really important issue for those people who depend on that

kind of conversation, right? It shows up in our performance management process. The reason people killed performance management and brought it back, we just did a conversation in the room and we asked how many people had killed it. There was probably a few hands that came up. And then I said, because we all need compensation numbers. And they're like, oh, oh yeah, that's why I've got to do my performance management, right? Because how do I give a raise if I don't know what someone's performance is, right? So I just had a conversation about this and I was suggesting that kill merit increases and do a cost of living adjustment for everyone.

and use incentive pay to drive performance. Because that cuts down on pay equity issues. It cuts down on exacerbating pay equity issues.

The 0.01 differentials in pay because of someone got a five and someone got a four don't drive performance. Right. You know, 1% versus a 2% versus a three. No one cares. Yeah. But if you're going to give them a 5% incentive or a 10% incentive of their pay and they get more because they did better or they get less because they didn't do as well and the company got more. So you have a multiplier effect that will drive behaviors. Yeah.

And it's fair. And it doesn't then compound on next year. Yeah. Because total comp resets. Yeah. No, I completely agree. I'm not a huge fan of merit pay myself and think that it really needs to be tied more to results. Yes. And a lot of times that merit pay is just a number that we came up with because this person...

rated this person higher than another person. And they all have different perspectives on how they're rating. So is it really fair? I mean, we try to do some analysis to look across the board and calibrate this data. But the extent that that's really successful, it's costing organizations a lot of money. And at the end of the day,

You know, it's not it's not incenting behavior or changing the way that people operate. I mean, we see this in the great example of that is in the NFL. Yeah. Right. Yeah. We somebody has a great year. We back the Brinks truck up. Give them millions of dollars. And then it's really hard to live up to that the next year. Well, or they get injured. Right. Exactly. And then that's my money's gone. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's not incenting them. In fact, it might be a little bit of a detractor. Why am I going to die for that? Why am I going to die for that ball? It's going to blow up my knee and the next year I'm not going to get my money, right? Well, and actually, I'm sure there is some truth to that too. Yeah. So, but, you know, but the person who's on the machining line, you know, in a manufacturer organization,

and they're vying for that 1% differential in pay. They don't even know about that 1% differential. They don't. No, because we're not transparent about the budget. Right. I don't know how many times as a compensation manager I've told the managers, don't tell your people what the budget is. Yeah. What do you mean don't tell them the budget?

I mean, it's a budget, you know, whatever. I mean, you see where I'm going with this. It's our compensation systems. We're overthinking things. We're trying to over-engineer them. And at the end of the day, people look at us and go, why are you doing this? This is nuts. Right. I think people are looking more for how do I get to the next level, right? So, you know, we should be focused more on promotion, marketing,

Then on merit. And now with Colorado and others and the EU saying that career frameworks are necessary for people to understand what their career paths are. Now that might be the high common denominator that everybody has to follow and say, okay, I'm going to do this for my entire company on a nationwide basis.

So now I have to develop those things and be more honest about where your career path goes. Yeah. At least that's my hope. I think companies would be very surprised if they had how many more employees they would keep if they had not just a career path and development and skills and all the tools or all the training that you can take around it, but the idea that I have a vision of what I could do inside the organization. Right. Not high performers, which we know does not work very well because then you have low performers and no one wants to be a low performer. Right.

But the idea that I've got this map of things I could do in the organization, so it gives me a vision of what my opportunities are, right?

And I would argue with you that a low performer is probably a better person to be talking to about where your skills could be better utilized than a high performer. Because a high performer is doing great where they are. Take that low performer and say, hey, what are your other passions? Where can I use you better? Because you're not doing well here. I might be able to redeploy you. Instead of spending the recruiting money and the recruiting time and the effort and the expense trying to go and find somebody else.

And how much more would that build into the way people feel about you as a company for redeploying people? That's a great example of what you were talking about in that skills session where IT people are high-tech companies, right? Yeah.

They were on the highest in the list in layoffs, but also one of the highest in hiring. So they're just trading. They're just swapping skills instead of sort of, well, let's figure out how we take these people that...

aren't doing good here and put them somewhere else in the organization or figure out how we leverage their skills somewhere else in the business. It's just disappointing. It really is. Yeah. And our knee-jerk reaction to any economic news is, well, we got to lay off, you know, 10,000 people. Yeah.

And we have this great HR technology. Why aren't we able to figure this shit out? Exactly. And then we probably will have to rehire them anyways later on. Yeah.

Well, I mean, what's worse about all of that is that then they're doing that in some cases to get the market's attention. So, oh, by laying people off, I get better, you know, ratings from the investors or ratings from, you know, the market. And that's the really sad part about it, right? It's oftentimes not even driven by what's going on at the individual manager and employee level. I know. Sorry, I didn't mean to leave us on a low note there. I'm going to have to go eat my chocolate chip cookie and cry. I know.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. Sapien Insights, I love you all. Stacey, you're wonderful. Susan, you're amazing. Terry, you're a star. I am so blessed to have you guys as friends and as well guests on our program. Thank you so much. Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us. We love you. We love you too. It's a love fest here. You can't tell that it is a love fest here. And please get home safe. Thank you. And hopefully we'll talk to you soon. All right. Take care. Stay safe.

That was the HR Data Labs podcast. If you liked the episode, please subscribe. And if you know anyone that might like to hear it, please send it their way. Thank you for joining us this week and stay tuned for our next episode. Stay safe.