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cover of episode #154 Why developers needn't fear CSS – with the King of CSS himself Kevin Powell

#154 Why developers needn't fear CSS – with the King of CSS himself Kevin Powell

2024/12/20
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Quincy Larson: 我很好奇，为什么开发者们在 2025 年仍然需要学习 CSS？仅仅因为它有趣吗？或者还有其他更重要的原因？ Kevin Powell: 我认为学习 CSS 的最大价值在于提升用户体验。CSS 是我们连接用户的方式，良好的用户体验应该优先考虑。如果用户难以使用你的产品，他们就不会再使用了。CSS 在用户体验中扮演着重要角色，它决定了网页的外观和布局，直接影响用户的使用感受。 此外，在网站开发的初期就考虑无障碍性设计至关重要。如果在后期才发现无障碍性问题，修复起来将非常困难，并且会产生大量的技术债务。技术债务是指采用次优方案导致后期需要额外的工作来修复。从一开始就关注无障碍性，使用正确的 HTML 元素，可以避免很多问题。 在团队协作中，设计师和开发者之间的沟通至关重要。设计师需要了解代码实现的可能性，开发者需要理解设计理念，只有良好的沟通才能避免冲突，提高效率。 CSS 自诞生以来已经取得了长足的进步。CSS3 的出现带来了圆角、阴影等新特性；Flexbox 和 Grid 的出现极大地简化了网页布局的创建过程，解决了之前使用浮动（float）和表格布局的许多问题。响应式网页设计则解决了不同设备屏幕尺寸差异的问题，使网页能够在各种设备上良好显示。 移动应用的普及对网页开发和设计也产生了深远的影响。虽然许多人主要通过移动应用访问网页，但渐进式 Web 应用 (PWA) 使得开发者可以用 HTML、CSS 和 JavaScript 创建跨平台的应用程序，这使得 CSS 仍然具有很高的相关性。 学习 CSS 的方法有很多，但重要的是要注重基础知识的学习，避免信息过载。在学习过程中，要多实践，多思考，并尝试将所学知识应用到实际项目中。学习滑板的经历教会了我刻意练习的重要性，以及实践与理论之间的差距。在学习编程时，也要多动手实践，不要仅仅依赖教程。 在教学过程中，我发现通过讲解和分享，可以加深对知识的理解。学习新技术时，可以尝试将所学知识进行总结和分享，这有助于巩固知识，并发现自身的知识盲点。 Kevin Powell: 我从事 CSS 相关工作已经超过十年，我的 YouTube 频道也积累了大量的视频教程。我最初创建 YouTube 频道只是出于个人兴趣，并没有什么宏伟的目标。起初，我的视频播放量很少，但随着时间的推移，我的频道逐渐获得了关注。在 2019 年，我的 YouTube 频道和课程收入达到一个临界点，让我有信心辞去全职工作，专注于内容创作。 我的 YouTube 频道主要专注于 CSS 相关的知识，我并没有扩展到其他领域。我认为专注于一个领域，并深入学习，可以帮助我更好地理解和掌握这个领域。 在教学过程中，我发现课堂教学经验对我的在线教学方式产生了积极的影响。课堂教学可以帮助教师更好地理解学习者的知识水平和学习过程中的困惑，从而改进教学方法。 UI 框架提供预构建的 UI 组件，而设计系统则更注重设计规范和品牌一致性。学习 CSS 基础知识可以帮助开发者更好地理解和修改 UI 框架，并解决实际问题。 CSS 的发展由 W3C 的 CSS 工作组负责，并通过公开的流程进行。任何人都可以参与其中，并对 CSS 的发展提出建议。 传统的设计技能可以帮助开发者更好地理解和应用 CSS，但网页设计与传统设计相比，需要考虑更多因素，例如响应式设计、无障碍性设计等。 即使工具越来越完善，学习 CSS 相关的基础知识仍然具有重要意义。学习 CSS 基础知识可以帮助开发者更好地理解和修改 UI 框架，并解决实际问题。此外，CSS 还在不断发展，学习 CSS 基础知识可以帮助开发者更好地适应新的技术发展。 分享学习心得非常重要，这不仅可以帮助他人，也可以加深自身对知识的理解。学习新技术时，可以尝试将所学知识进行总结和分享，这有助于巩固知识，并发现自身的知识盲点。在分享观点时，要保持谨慎，避免误导他人。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why is CSS often a source of frustration for developers?

CSS is a declarative language that seems simple at first, but its complexity becomes apparent as developers encounter layout issues and intricate algorithms behind the scenes. Many developers underestimate its complexity, leading to frustration when CSS doesn't behave as expected.

Why should developers still learn CSS in 2025?

CSS is crucial for user experience, as it directly impacts how users interact with a website. It ensures functionality, accessibility, and aesthetics, making it essential for creating user-friendly designs. Even with tools like Material UI, understanding CSS allows for customization and better problem-solving.

Why is accessibility important in CSS from the start?

Accessibility ensures that all users, including those with disabilities, can use a website. Ignoring it early leads to technical debt, requiring significant rework later. By prioritizing accessibility, developers avoid costly fixes and ensure inclusivity from the beginning.

What are the biggest improvements in CSS over the years?

CSS Grid and Flexbox revolutionized layout design, providing tools specifically for creating responsive and flexible layouts. These tools replaced older hacks like using tables or floats, making it easier to build complex designs without unnecessary workarounds.

How did responsive design change web development?

Responsive design emerged to address the variety of screen sizes and devices. It replaced the need for separate mobile and desktop sites, allowing a single codebase to adapt to different screen sizes through media queries and flexible layouts.

Why is learning CSS still relevant for mobile app developers?

CSS remains relevant for mobile app developers because it underpins web development and progressive web apps. Understanding CSS ensures flexibility across platforms and prepares developers for future technologies, especially as open standards like HTML and CSS continue to evolve.

What is the role of the CSS Working Group in CSS development?

The CSS Working Group (CSS WG) oversees the development of CSS, making decisions through public discussions and feedback. They aim to avoid past mistakes by thoroughly considering new features and ensuring cross-browser compatibility through initiatives like the Interop project.

How does teaching CSS improve understanding of the language?

Teaching CSS forces educators to break down complex concepts and explain them clearly, leading to deeper understanding. This process often reveals knowledge gaps and helps solidify foundational concepts, benefiting both the teacher and the learner.

Chapters
This chapter explores the enduring relevance of CSS in 2025, highlighting its role in user experience and the importance of prioritizing accessibility from the outset. The discussion covers technical debt and the collaboration between designers and front-end developers.
  • CSS is crucial for user experience, ensuring functionality and ease of use.
  • Prioritizing accessibility from the start prevents accumulating substantial technical debt.
  • Open communication between designers and developers is essential for addressing accessibility and other design challenges.

Shownotes Transcript

Take our year-end freeCodeCamp podcast listener survey real quick: https://forms.gle/2M9NW776723uSdDT7

On this week's episode of the podcast, freeCodeCamp founder Quincy Larson interviews Kevin Powell. He's a designer, a software engineer, and an expert in CSS. He's runs a CSS-focused YouTube channel with nearly a million subscribers. There's nothing sensational there – he literally just teaches people CSS.

Support for this podcast comes from a grant from Wix Studio. Wix Studio provides developers tools to rapidly build websites with everything out-of-the-box, then extend, replace, and break boundaries with code. Learn more at https://wixstudio.com.

Support also comes from the 11,043 kind folks who support freeCodeCamp through a monthly donation. Join these kind folks and help our mission by going to https://www.freecodecamp.org/donate

CORRECTION: I (Quincy) say during the interview that the Uber found a way to access microphones on iOS without users' knowledge. There have been documented cases of malware doing this (like Pegasus) but Uber didn't do this. They did do a lot of other shady things, like continue collecting data even after you deleted their app – but mic spying was not one of them. Yes, early Uber was an ethical tire fire. But it's important to get facts right here.

We talk about:

  • Why you should still learn CSS in 2025 - How teaching concepts improves your own understanding of them - How learning to skateboard helped Kevin escape Tutorial Hell - Massive improvements coming to CSS

Links we talk about during our conversation: