After win at Torrey, Ludvig Åberg has officially arrived
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Hello and welcome into this edition of the Golf Channel Podcast with Rex and Lav. Well, three weeks after getting hit by the Torrey flu bug, Ludwig Oberg certainly got his revenge at the Genesis Invitational. Burned four of his last six holes to steal a signature event at Torrey Pines. And what was his biggest victory to date? Rex, is this a superstar in the making?

Well, I think he was already a superstar. I think both of us can agree with that. Let's just go back not that far to the Ryder Cup in Rome, and he clearly emerged as a superstar. One PG tour win. That seems like a bridge too far for superstar talk. Yeah.

Well, no, and the reason I'm glad you started there, because the idea being that I think you can connect the dots now from winning early in his career on the European tour, winning the RSM Classic, performing the way he did in Rome at that Ryder Cup, which we can all say, yes, that was superstar status. That's the stuff that makes a superstar. From there, there's a direct line going.

going in the wrong direction. And it's everything because of that knee injury that he finally had to get fixed at the end of last year. It was a torn meniscus. And when he returned there, there was the player that we remembered. I remember being at Sea Island last year when he came back essentially in his first start since the surgery, he was light. He was confident. He was at ease with his surroundings. It seemed like nothing made him speed up. That's the guy we saw.

today. And I think this is the player that you can expect. You can look at last year's knee injury. You can look at whatever the San Diego flu bug is. And I don't want to talk about that anymore because I can say right now that he got way too graphic on that front. There are certain things that you can leave to the imagination. Superstar Lubick,

And there are certain things that you probably just need to tell us. Those are things you could have left to the imagination. Just it was not pleasant is probably the way you can end that. I don't need to hear the gory details. But when you go through what happened to him last time he was here at Torrey Pines and he decided he was going to grind it out.

He was not going to stop. He was going to keep going. He could not do the bat the next week at Pebble Beach. He was fourth to withdraw, and that was probably for the best. He said he didn't even start feeling right last week when he finally went home to recover until Thursday. So this was almost a two-and-a-half week. A two-week illness.

Yeah. And he lost eight pounds, which for you and I, that wouldn't be much for someone who's in good shape, like that. That's a lot of weight. And so I think all of those things combined for him to show up and not just win, but he started the day four strokes back and he started the day four strokes back to a couple of players who were playing really well and Patrick Rogers and Jenny McCarthy and those who were at the top of the leaderboard, not to mention the fact that you had Scotty Shuffler doing Scotty Shuffler things on Sunday. I

I would jump the gun and I always pull this card out. It seems like when we do this pod and be the prison of the moment and say, nope, he's a superstar now.

I mean, it does seem like we've been waiting for this, which is ludicrous to say about a guy who's making what his 40th career start on the PGA Tour. I like what you did there. Very good. Thank you very much. But like the guy wins on the European Tour to become essentially a lock to be a captain's pick for the Ryder Cup. He wins the season finale in 2023 at your fifth major, the RSM Classic, with a 61-61 weekend. And like we can look at all the stats in the world and

about Ludwig Oberg and we can project ahead to how many majors he's going to win, how many regular PG tour events he's going to win. But what has really struck me Rex over the past two years, ever since it became clear that he was going to be this player coming out of Texas tech was how the other players on the PG tour and his peers talked about him. And, and so you look at the resume that he could have compiled and

in 2024 could have won pebble beach. That tournament was shortened to 54 holes because of weather. He finished second at the masters who knew who knows what would have happened. Hey, not rinse that approach shot on 11 made double bogey. Otherwise had a pretty solid final round of 69 at Augusta national. He kicked it away at the U S open with some sloppy short game play, which was sort of his weakness. He didn't win the Scottish open bothered by the knee injury. He didn't win the BMW championship by,

bothered by the knee injury. He gets sick, as you mentioned, after the opening 63 at the Farmers. Like, we could be talking –

about a grossly different resume than what Ludwig Oberg came into the Genesis Invitational with. And instead, I think this was sort of the exclamation point on what we have all wanted to see out of him. You know, he's one of the best drivers of the golf ball on the planet, and he proved it with the way that he closed this thing out on Sunday at Torrey Pines, particularly on the 18th hole, ripping it 325, dead down the center stripe, a player who led the field

from Tita green and he had his best putting of the day, best putting round of the tournament on Sunday. Like guys got all the tools. He's going to, he's going to win a lot of tournaments.

And I will say I was taken when he did his press conference interview here at Torrey Pines after the fact how much joy he has when he talks about just not winning. Of course, people are going to be happy when they win. But we've seen him on good weeks and bad. You and I both are taken that he really enjoys being out there. He's got a good caddy and Joe Scavron. He's got a good team around him and that when he's healthy and he's not dealing with whatever it is, the toy. What did you call it? The Torrey Pines bug? I think we'd let Torrey Torrey Torrey flew.

Sure. Torrey Floyd. Let's go with that. When he's not dealing with these things, that's the player that we've anticipated. And I think as much as the RSM Classic was impressive and what he did on the DP World to win straight out of college, it was really what he did in Rome under the most exacting and crushing of circumstances. We all know how much pressure comes with that.

to be in Europe playing for a European team, expecting to perform at your absolute best and something you've never done before. I keep going back to the idea that everyone always compares a match at the Ryder Cup to playing in the final round of a major and you're in contention. He wouldn't have known that because he had never played in a major championship before he played in that first Ryder Cup. That, to me, is staggering. And I was also taken when I asked him specifically about that putt on 18 to essentially lock up that win today. He immediately...

went to the idea that, yeah, it was similar to Tiger Woods' putt in 2008. To the point I'd be like, Dom, trying to do the math, you would have been eight years old. And, of course, he didn't watch it. He doesn't remember watching it then. However, he's watched it enough times that he knew that that's what he was doing. He has a sense of history. He has a sense of where he stands in the game. And you're right. Those around him have taken notice. Anybody that's on the European Ryder Cup team or hopes to be on the European Ryder Cup team is looking in his direction, thinking to themselves, yep,

We got that guy. We should be fine. Does he remind you of anybody? Like, I can't shake, like, the cool persona that he has. Like, reminds me of Adam Scott. The way that he has, like, a ready-made game and, well, certainly more mature than Jon Rahm had coming out. But, like, the fact that he was able to contend right away straight out of college is very Rahm-esque. Like, does anybody else...

in recent memory like remind you of ludwig oberg or like where where do you think we're where do you think we're going with him in terms of you know marketability fan recognition like is he a rory spieth type or is he like a jt phenol category like where do you put him in terms of popularity and charisma

I love the Adam Scott comp. And like, look, that's going back a minute. That's going back quite a minute, to be honest with you. But if you look at his swing, and if you sit and watch it on the range, you're thinking, yep, that's a perfect swing. And you still say that pretty much to this day about Adam Scott, despite the up and downs of his career, which gives you a lot of hope when you think that

We're going to be watching Ludwig do this for the next 20 plus years. It's kind of cool when you think of what he could have accomplished in the game. You just kind of retrace the steps over the last first two years of his professional career and what could have been. I think the path that he's on is still phenomenal. And maybe what he went through last year with the knee and everything else, it's probably only going to make him a stronger person. When it comes to personality wise, I would put him more in the category of a Rory or Jordan Spieth. We saw it. You and I both.

were at that TGL event when he showed up and he brought a level of personality, a level of charisma, a level of entertainment that a lot of those players that we're seeing now are struggling with. It comes to him naturally. We've talked about this, about you don't want anybody to be anybody they're not when it comes to TGL, but try to be something a little bit more

No one said that about Lugovic because he went out and he entertained. Not only did he play really well in that first match, but I think he was magnetic. He's a handsome fella. You and I both can agree with that. And he played well, and he has personality. That's got star-making written all over it.

I mean, 25 years old, two PGA Tour wins. He has even now the requisite experience in the major championships and big events. The ceiling is absolutely monumental for a player like Ludwig Oberg. Had we recorded the podcast, Rex, like midway through the back nine, we probably would have been preparing a lot of Maverick McNeely notes or maybe even Scotty Scheffler notes. What else stood out to you about the way that the final round at Torrey Pines unfolded?

I mean, the way Mav got off to such a fast start and he was playing well, he played really well on Saturday. I talked to him on Saturday following his round. Keep in mind, he teed off in the last group on Thursday, which was the worst of the weather. He played nine holes and just a driving sideways rain. So just the fact that he was able to be there towards the end is pretty impressive. And he did tell a story after his round today that he actually got a text message last night from Scott Stallings, the former tour pro who won here many, many years ago. And the message was simple. Like,

Don't be afraid to get off to a fast start. And it sounds simple. And, okay, yeah, I'd like to make birdies early to try to make up ground. But when you actually do it, that's when it's impressive. I was actually a little surprised. And we can break down him deciding to go with driver on 17. But when I heard him sort of explain his thought process, and I don't think either one of us are going to question the thought process when it comes to the Stanford grad.

However, when he actually explained it, I thought, okay, he'd made birdie from the right rough where it's matted down where the fans are the day before. So he was kind of aiming in that direction. And I know I kind of rolled my eyes when Rory suggested that the other day, but if you know what's over there, if it's in his mind, a quantifiable element, then yes, go for it. And it ricocheted off one of those posts that holds up the ropes, which is,

tiny and went into an impossible spot. And that's probably pretty much when he ended up losing the tournament, but just to put himself into this position, just on a whim, I went back and I think it was his last seven starts on the PGA tour. And they include his win, his first one on the PGA tour last year at the RSM classic, as well as I think four other top 10 finishes. He is on a trajectory. I wasn't surprised when he put himself into contention today, and I won't be surprised if he continues to do that.

I mean, it's great to see his continual improvement over the course of his PG tour career. Now a top 30 player in the official world golf rankings. Like he had one of the best putting seasons ever a couple of years ago, but his ball striking has gotten so much better. Like he absolutely lashes at his irons. He was second in the field and approach this week at Torrey pines. He's certainly going to, although he's,

he had a good week with his irons. He's going to rue, I think more than the drive on 17, he's going to rue sort of the flail pitching wedge in the bunker on 14. He was 900 through 13 at that point. He had the golf tournament in hand. Uh, it's, it's when you have a scoring club in your hand, that's a, it should have been a green light special birdie opportunity. Instead, it's a very poor shot for his standards. It doesn't get up and down. It makes bogey there. You mentioned the unlucky bounce on 17, the flailed, uh,

T shot on 18 as well into the right rough takes fairway wood out of his hands. Can't reach the green in two. I think again, Maverick McNeely, the ball striking improvements that he's made would not surprise me at all. If he sniffs major contention, he has so much confidence going right now. Also Rex in the final group, or excuse me, in the final round on Sunday, something we probably would have been very jazzed about. We were doing the preview podcast on Wednesday was Roy McElroy and Sky Shuffle played together. It was amazing.

Unfortunately, they were coming off very disappointing rounds for them on Saturday. Only one of them got in the hunt. That was Scotty Scheffler on Sunday. What was your biggest takeaway to the biggest stars in the game taking it up together at Torrey Ponds? Actually, you texted me. You must have been busy on Saturday, so you weren't paying attention to the broadcast. And you asked what a very breathless text. What the hell happened?

I wasn't going to say that, but yes, that's pretty much what you said. And it was a very simple return tweet. Rory McIlroy did not putt very well at all. As a matter of fact, I think he gave up almost two strokes, more than two strokes to the field. And Scottie was doing what Scottie did the first two rounds when he got away with poor driving. And yet on Saturday, he just didn't get away with it. That's essentially what happened. Now, when you see the turnaround, at least for Scottie on Sunday, it was much more, at least statistically, what we've come to expect

from him. But, and I did a column on this on Friday, the fact he was even in contention doing things that Scott Scheffler normally does not do. And I was impressed that he had his own self-awareness of telling me on Thursday that, you know what, like last year, if I was struggling, it was pretty obvious why I was struggling. I wasn't putting well, because clearly everyone looks at my ball striking statistically. I'm always on point there, but if I had a bad tournament, it was because of my putting. It's been, it's,

the exact opposite since he returned from that injury where something just doesn't seem right. At least not so much with his iron play. I think strokes gain approach. He's still very, very solid. It's really off the tee and eventually just caught up with him. We're talking about how difficult the South course is here at Torrey Pines. It's probably the worst rough that they'll face probably until they reach Bay Hill will be the next time that they faced a really good driving test like this. Certainly PGA national with the winds coming up, but again,

But it eventually caught up with him, and the putter in his short game bailed him out on Thursday and Friday. It did not on Saturday. But then you look at what he did statistically on Sunday. That's more of what we've come to expect. For Rory, it was the exact opposite. You just look at that putter, just let him down from start to finish on Saturday and wasn't much better on Sunday.

Yeah, I think Scottie's probably still a little bit rusty. He talked about the time off and how that sort of derailed the progress and the progression that he had made with his game, what he likes to do during the offseason. It sort of feels like he's trying to make up for lost time now, preaching patience, even though he has high expectations for himself, even though we have high expectations every single time the world number one steps out on the golf course. But I think it's pretty clear that he's still rusty, still doesn't have his game clear.

quite where he wants it. Just 53% fairways hit over the week at Torrey Pines. Lost strokes with his approach play two of the four rounds. The 76 on Saturday was his worst score on the PGA Tour in like three years. And so I think, you know, the T3 finish

at the Genesis is really a testament to his incredible scrambling, his resilience, the attitude flip that he made from Saturday until Sunday. I'm not at all concerned as we head to the Florida swing for Scottie Scheffler. Keep in mind, this is the exact same stretch that he had last year in which he did not notch a victory. All he did once he hit Florida was go 1-1-2-1-1

In his next five starts. That said, I'm not all that concerned about Roy McIlroy either. You know, even though he got dusted by Scotty Scheffler on Sunday, Roy McIlroy lost more than six shots to the field on the greens on the weekend. It was the worst putting weekend of his entire career. He's a player who is an above average putter on the PGA tour who just putted great a couple of weeks ago and winning a Torrey Pines. I'm chalking it up to a fluke. Are you chalking it up to a fluke as well?

I am. He won a pebble just to clean that up for you. I will say, and it would be easy for me to say these greens here at Torrey Pines, the POA late in the afternoon, like he played on Saturday and Sunday. It's probably not the best to putt on if you're trying for the exacting art that putting is on the PGA tour. It's not the best canvas, I guess would be the best way for me to say that. However,

Others didn't seem to have nearly that much problem with it, Scottie Scheffler being the best example here. He just never looked comfortable starting on Saturday and it lasted all the way through Sunday. He certainly hit enough good shots. And I love the way he drove the ball at least halfway through the final round. He was first in the field and strokes came off the tee. And I remember I did a radio interview on Saturday morning and they asked, who do you have more confidence in, Scottie or Rory? And I leaned towards Rory only because he had just done it at Pebble Beach.

which, okay, the rough's not quite as high at Pebble Beach, but it's a very similar driving test, and the greens obviously are a poet, so it's very similar on that front. I did not see that coming, but I'm with you. The idea that he just won at Pebble Beach, the idea that he's driving it so well despite not really having the results, all of those things point to him showing up in Florida just like Scottie going on a run as well.

All right, another signature event on the PGA Tour in the books. And just a reminder, you can catch live first-round coverage of the Mexico Open on Golf Channel at 4 p.m. Eastern time on Thursday. Rex and I will be back after this short break.

All right, and we're pleased to welcome into the show Johnson Wagner, who was part of our Golf Central coverage all week for the Genesis Invitational. Johnson, appreciate you joining us. After watching Ludwig Oberg all week at Torrey Pines, you take an over-under 18.5 majors for the big guy. I'm taking under, Lab, but that's a great first question. What was your biggest takeaway watching him, the way that he overpowered the golf course and then the 66 on Sunday's tournament?

He was my pick for the Farmers Insurance Open a few months ago, or excuse me, a few weeks ago. And about halfway through the round today, the little mini leaderboard on CBS, it was all American players and Ludwig wasn't on there. And I was like, oh, yeah, we're going to get another American winner. And then he just came charging. I thought it was amazing. He cut the bogeys out. That had been his issue all week long. Too many three putts, too many bogeys.

bogeys and after bogey and holes four and five today he was clean and it was really impressive the way his iron play was the way he drove it like all his highlights he was hitting the ball from the center of the fairway and I think the most impressive shot I saw him hit other than the winning putt was that tee shot on 18 tied for the lead he hit it right down the middle of the fairway and I was like this dude is a machine

When you look at sort of the entirety of his career, having to go through the knee injury last year, getting off to such a fast start, winning early, winning at the RSM Classic. When you look at the potential he has, and I know Lab started with the joking about 15 majors. However, what is the ceiling for a player like him? What would you say his ceiling is? I mean, I think honestly, I think...

I don't know when this is going to happen. It's maybe three years from now, but I think he's going to be the next number one player in the world after Scotty Scheffler is dethroned. It will be because of Ludwig Oberg. I don't want to put a number on majors. Like I thought Rory honestly should be at 10 and had he maybe hired Steve Williams when he, when he fired JP, maybe he would be at 10 and he's still stuck at,

So I don't want to put a number on it, but it would not surprise me at all to see him get in that Brooks Koepka category where about five majors and then beyond. What do you think separates him, Johnson? I mean, we see guys like him come out of college and experience success right away on the PGA Tour. But to me, the main difference is how his peers talk about Ludwig Oberg. Guys like us can gush about him all we want.

But if Rory's talking about him, if Rom's talking about him, if Luke Donald talks about him, that sort of gets your attention more than just regular golf analysts.

Well, I think he's mature beyond his age. I know he was a little bit older as a college senior, but I think he's mature, and I think he doesn't take himself too seriously. I love watching him walk around smiling, and I think that that really separates himself. Also, guys love how fast he plays. He doesn't stand over the ball like a Tom Kim who's just stagnant over the ball for hours.

40 seconds, Ludwig gets over it. He pulls the trigger. I think his swing is repeatable. He's really powerful, but it doesn't, you know, like Will Zalatoris has the back issues. Like you see it in the modern swing and I don't see Ludwig being plagued with sort of back injuries because of how much speed he generates. So, I mean, I think there's a lot of things that separate them.

But he was plagued with injuries the last time he was here for the Farmers Insurance Open, and that sounded awful. He got a little bit too graphic for my taste, to be honest with you, talking about it this week. You played on the tour for a long time. Did you ever find yourself in a situation where you simply couldn't finish because it was just too much? Well, I finished, but it was at the Genesis. It was at RIV. It was the L.A. Open back then. I think it was 2009.

or maybe 10, my son was really young and my wife came out on the road with me. We had our baby, Graham, and he, I got sick. It was going through daycare. I was the first one to go down and it was awful. I had to play golf and my wife looked at me and she's like, I'm taking him home. I'm getting out of here. She ended up getting sick on the way back to Virginia to her parents' house. And I went out and played Riv. It was a cold, rainy day. And it was the closest I've ever come to pulling the rip cord and saying, I can't do it.

I am intimately familiar with how daycare illnesses can then ravage a family. John, before we get to the state of the game stuff, which I know you are just ready, willing, and able to uncork some really hot takes on this podcast, I wanted to ask you about Scotty Scheffler, top three finish at Torrey Pines, clearly without his best stuff. He has talked a little bit about

Some of the missed time that he had with the hand issue, not doing a whole lot. Do you have any concern that he won't be able to get right in the two to three starts that he's expected to make ahead of the Masters?

Zero concern. He showed me today. I think he showed everybody today the kind of competitor he is. He's going to have two weeks off leading into Bay Hill. He's going to go home. He may take tomorrow off, but then he's going to get to work. He's going to grind. He's going to work and fix the things like the pull with the driver that was so prevalent the first couple days. Even the pulls with the irons on 11 and 16 that kind of

He erased his chances, but that shot he had into 18 was ridiculous. I'm picking him to win Bay Hill. I think he's going to have a good chance to defend the players for the second consecutive time. And I just, I'm as bullish on Scottie as I possibly could be in leading into Pebble. I was worried. I was worried what we were going to see, but he's shown me enough in these three weeks that he's going to be just fine leading into the players, the majors and all that stuff.

Okay, before Lab pushes you into the abyss, that is the politics of the PGA Tour, I did want to ask real quick about another player who has gone through injury that you might have a little bit more concerned on. I talked to Jordan Spieth after he missed the cut this week. What's your level of concern there?

I thought you were going to go with Xander Shoffley. My level of concern with Jordan is minimal. I mean, look at what he did in Phoenix last week. I just think this golf course is a tough fit for him. And plus, playing out of that heavy rough, probably a little tough to trust that wrist around that Torrey Pines rough. But, I mean, Xander, if you're okay if I go there, I mean –

A rib injury coming off two major championships, you know, playing at Kapalua, missing his hometown event at Torrey twice, missing Pebble. And like he's going to show up at Bay Hill. What's he going to look like? Because when you have a rib injury, you're not pounding balls. You're not getting better. Maybe he's chipping and putting. So that should be tidy. But I'm concerned about Xander Shoffley.

off way. More on Xander at the end of the show. Jordan Spieth, I'm not all that concerned just like you, Johnson. I mean, this is a player who, even in the best of times, Troy Pines is not necessarily a great fit for his style of play. I still think the Masters is potentially on his radar. All right. Without further ado,

Let's get into the good stuff here. I want to take you back to Wednesday, Roy McIlroy's press conference. Here is what Roy McIlroy had to say about everyone putting aside their hard feelings and reuniting the game for the good of the sport. We've all done better from all of this. Whether you stayed on the PGA Tour or you left, we have all benefited from this. And I've been on the record saying this a lot.

Like, we're playing for $20 million prize fund this week. Like, that would have never happened if Liv hadn't come around. So I think for the... I think everyone's just got to get over it, and we all have to say, OK, this is the starting point, and we move forward. We don't look behind us. We don't look to the past. We just, you know, whatever's happened has happened, and it's been unfortunate, but reunification, how we all come back together and move forward, that's the best thing for everyone. So, like, if people are...

or have their feelings hurt because guys went and whatever, like who cares? Like let's move forward together and let's just try to get this thing going again and do what's best for the game. Butthurt is certainly a underused phrase, certainly on this podcast, but I'm glad that we can then bring it into the fray. Johnson, you said on Golf Central that Rory had a quote, finite perspective. Elaborate, please.

I just, he's, he's seen this from a best player in the game view and that's his opinion and that's fine, but this is so much bigger than that. And I made the point that sponsors are getting really hurt. The fact that he's saying we've all benefited from this. We've all benefited from this. I'm making more money than I did in 19. I'm making so much money. Look at me. Nobody loves nobody who's a,

fan of an athlete loves hearing about how much they make, right? Like if you hear my favorite quarterback, Bryce Young, he's not really my favorite quarterback, but he's my hometown quarterback. If Bryce Young comes out and he's like, I'm making more money this year. I just signed a new deal. Like nobody wants to hear that. It's a turnoff. And so the sponsors and I, like I've been getting kind of roasted for this on social media, but the sponsors are, are getting, you know,

Look, the way the trajectory of the tour was going before live, purses were going to be up there. It was going to be great. New TV deal. Everything was trending in the right direction. And what happened was it got accelerated to a point of no return to the point where the PGA tour had to get outside money to start sourcing other things because they were depleting their reserves, making these $20 million purses that they couldn't have. A lot of sponsors in the beginning couldn't fork it over. Now they're starting to. So the...

I just wish he would look at it from a perspective. I just wish he would look at it from someone's perspective other than himself. So, so Johnson and Rex, you're in the room and I want to get your thoughts on this. But to me, Johnson, Rory was talking about this from a financial perspective of no one has been impoverished.

by golf civil war pg tour players whether you're number one on the money list or number 125 on the money list you have all made more money and so to me listening to roy's sound there he's saying we need to get over it because we've all done better we have benefited financially from this no one can have any grievances about how this is played out sure those guys may have gotten more guaranteed money sure they may have be now playing less golf but like

The jealousy, the bitterness, the resentment, put that aside for what could ultimately strengthen the PGA Tour. Rex, did you get that same impression from what Roy was saying when you were inside the room?

First and foremost, I am here to hear Johnson Wagner do every bit of analysis and whatever that voice is that he just did. The sing-song voice that he was mimicking. I can only assume it was Roy. Yes, that. I am here for that all day long. Yes, I think that's what he was getting at. And I understand, Johnson, when I heard your take on Central, I 100% understood where you're coming from. Because I spend a lot of time talking with players who aren't Rory McIlroy, who aren't at the top.

of the food chain who are quote unquote, butthurt. And I totally understand that when it comes to, once we're beyond whatever the financial terms of this potential deal is going to look like between the PGA tour and the public investment fund, then we need to get into the weeds and getting into the weeds is unifying the game, which that means essentially bringing those players together,

who went to live golf back to the PGA tour. And I get it from players perspective, it's going to be hard to wrap your mind around it. However, I wrote just this week that to get that done. And I think all three of us in this room can agree right now. That's probably best for the game to get that done. The only way to get that done is if Jay Monahan or whoever takes his place as CEO is a benevolent dictator because of what you just voiced. Would you agree with that?

I would agree with that. And I know the perspective Rory's coming, not pride. I don't mean to say perspective again. I know what Rory's saying. And I agree that it would be good for the game, but it's not that simple. And to use the words get over it or butthurt by the whole situation, I think is a little bit insensitive to what's going on. I mean,

Two years ago, all these guys were banned for life from the PGA Tour, and now we're just supposed to welcome them back, open arms, hat in hand, like, hey, buddy, it's good to see you. It's just – it's not that easy. Please, Rex, I need to collect myself for a second. Here's something else, Johnson, that I think was very interesting that we saw this week as it sort of pertains to the state and the future of the PGA Tour and LIV.

Because Jay Monahan and new live CEO Scott O'Neill were both asked about what this framework agreement could eventually become. And essentially, you see the quotes up on the screen here. Essentially, Jay Monahan is saying that we need to get back under one tour, aka monopoly, how things have always operated. While Scott O'Neill is saying the future of live golf is bright.

And the prospects are bright, and there's so much opportunity here. It does not seem like these two are on the same page about what the future of men's professional golf looks like. PGA Tour's side says, yes, all the best players playing together more often. Liv's side says, yes, we may strike this deal, and we may have a financial tie to the PGA Tour, but Liv Golf is going to be continuing for decades to come.

Where is the disconnect here? Because it seems like these are two wildly different concepts for what the short-term future of the PGA Tour will ever going to look like.

Well, I think a lot of it has to do with who are you welcoming back? Do these guys even want to come back? Is it only players that have exemptions on the PGA Tour still, which are very few? I think about a guy like Harold Varner or Cameron Tringali. If they're coming back to the PGA Tour, they're going to have to go earn it through Q-School or the Corn Fairy or sponsor exemptions or some other way. And is Liv going to stay playing for these guys that don't make their –

Not that they're making money anyway, the tour itself, but like, is lives not going to exist if they don't have Bryson, if they don't have ROM and if they don't have Cam Smith, Brooks Koepka, like those are the guys we're talking about. Right.

No, and that leads me exactly where I wanted to go with you specifically because you speak from a very unique perspective from a player, someone who was on the tour and someone who won on the PGA Tour. The idea that all of them are going to be welcomed back, I have come to discover that's just not realistic, that this will be a la carte, that you look at the players that they probably need back, we're talking about 10 or 15 players max. You're talking about Bryson and Brooks and Jon Rahm. I don't think they go completely –

48 players deep or whatever the case may be. However, I will turn this a little bit, and I'm not even trying to make this personal or trying to trickle you again, I promise, but I did this story last year with Hudson Swofford about the idea that he does want to come back, and he is no longer on live golf. He got relegated off the tour. As someone who has been in that position, would you be in favor of him just being able to show up at Q School at the end of this season and try to play his way back, or should there be a pound of flesh? Should there be some sort of suspension or fine?

And when Rory's talking about the pound of flesh, I think that's what he's talking about. Get over it. You need to get over it. We're beyond a pound of flesh. Hudson Swofford, he's a past champion on the PGA Tour.

i would have no problem with him playing off that status going to q school going back to corn ferry absolutely not i i it just has the tour made the decision that these guys aren't banned for life still and i think the answer is no they have not changed that that decision so until that happens which i think jay would have to make that call um in the policy board until that happens but i personally would have no issue with guys coming back i'm over it i i honestly

I am over it. If these guys want to come back and play, but I think they, I don't think you could do both. I guess is my point. I don't think you can play live and come poach our best events. Johnson Wagner, not butthurt. That should be the new lower third. I want to get out of here on this. Cause I know you've spent time Johnson sort of whiteboarding what the future of golf could, should look like. Like,

For you, what's the ideal PGA Tour schedule? How, if at all, do you incorporate live? Are the majors in the exact same spot? Like, what is your ideal landscape for major professional golf?

So I'm not trying to contradict myself. When I got mad at Rory the other day, it was the player coming out in me. It's just like, I'm sick of the little man journeyman being put down. And so when I give you this, it's going to sound a lot like Rory because from a media guy now, this makes the most sense.

They've already made it so it's 100 players. It's a 100 player tour. And I think including the majors, it should be a 25 week schedule. Okay, you can call it the FedEx Cup tour. You can call it whatever you want. Poach all the best events. And then I think the Korn Ferry tour and the smaller PGA tour events need to merge together.

relieve some stress from these sponsors that are having to pay for $10 million purses. That secondary tour can have $5 million purses, $4 million purses, whatever they can get where guys can go out and make a good living that aren't on this greater tour. And that way it gives all other sports have something different than golf has. They have a long off season that gives the fans time to miss it. Golf, we don't have that. We miss the majors, sure, but you can't miss

PGA Tour golf because it is constant. It's year round. You basically have the month of December off and there's still the silly season events then. So I would like to see a 25 week schedule, including the majors. So let's call it 20, the players and the majors. And that's your, you don't have to mandate guys to play every week, but it's a hundred. It's those guys that if they're going to have that, they should, but it's going to be those hundred guys and have maybe a

30 fall off every year and 30 come up from either the merged Korn Ferry PGA Tour and DP have like a merging system to where you can get up. It's got to have turnover, but that's what I see.

I talked to Adam Scott earlier this week, and he was in the meeting with the President of the United States, as well as Jay Monahan, the Commissioner of the PGA Tour. And Adam looked exhausted. And we sort of talked a little bit about the idea of what it's like being on the policy board at this moment in time. You served as a player director on the policy board. How relieved are you that you're not on that board right now? And what can you imagine is like in that room?

Well, when I served, my last year was the COVID year. And so it was calls all the time. It was meetings all the time. What are we going to do? It was three or four times a week. We were jumping on two, three hour long calls. I am incredibly thankful that I'm not on it now because those guys...

you know, Rory bailed off the board and he, that was a wise decision. My agent once told me, he's like, don't go on the pack. Don't go on the policy board until you're ready to stop playing golf because it truly is that way. And it's more magnified now than it ever has been. I mean, Patrick Cantlay is playing good golf, but he hasn't won since he got on that board. He hasn't won since 2022. It's there. There's a lot that goes into it. Where's the ambition be the change you want. You could go down to the history books.

of altering the pg tour mad mcneely is stumping for pack chairman that's the player i want to get behind mad mcneely pack chairman for 2025 and beyond johnson thank you so much for joining us folks johnson's dms are open if you want to send him more hate mail which you've been doing all week find him on x find him on instagram buddy we appreciate you coming on hope to see you soon thank you guys see you at the players i hope

All right. And just a reminder, folks, we do this podcast twice a week, only once on linear television. Rex and I'll be back on Wednesday, wherever it is. You get your podcast for a preview of the Mexico championship and any other news and notes from the world of golf. All right. We'll be right back after the short break and back by popular demand. It is the world famous love it or love it segment. Rex.

You are intimately familiar with how this works. Let's begin with Joaquin Neiman, who won again on the live circuit on Sunday, this time in Adelaide with a closing 65. Do you love or lav the idea that this is Waco's breakout year in the major championships?

I'm going to love it for a couple of different reasons. Another guy that should be a breakout star, regardless of what tour he plays on. But I love the idea right now because it puts them inside the top three on their points list. And as we just learned last week, the USGA will give an invitation to a player inside the top three who isn't otherwise exempt. So it creates a pathway for him because he can continue to win and play well and live golf. And that is impressive. However, until he makes that next step and he does it in the major championships, I think that's going to hold them back a little

bit, but he has an opportunity now because of these new rules, both by the USGA and the RNA. He can play his way in and he can keep improving that status. I'm going to love it too, just because like, if not now, when?

He's never been better than 16th in a major championship. He's getting starts in major championships, as you mentioned, when some of his peers on live aren't. This is his fifth worldwide victory in the past 15 months. He's 26 years old. He has plenty of experience in the big events. It's time for him to take the leap. There's nothing about his game that stands out as not being able to 2025 with all the success he's had of late.

needs to be that year. All right. We mentioned Maverick McNeely Rex in the first segment coming off the runner up finish at the Genesis invitation, but he also had some interesting comments in the press tent and Maverick McNeely, if you're not familiar with sort of instrumental in helping tour players realize the error with the FedEx cup distribution. Now he has an idea to help speed up play by cutting it to the top 60 and ties as opposed to top 65 and ties after the cut is made on the PGA tour.

Are you loving or laughing Mav's idea? I'm loving the idea that we should have Johnson do love it and laugh it with us in the future. Can you imagine how heated this conversation would be right now after what we just experienced with him? To be clear, Mav did not say that in the media center. He said it to me because I was curious and I wanted to walk out. Oh, hashtag breaking. Exclusive. Excuse me. That's right. That's right. Source me. Source this guy. This guy. Two thumbs. Uh,

And I will say this. I have said this repeatedly on this podcast, and I will continue to do so. I do not want to do a Pace of Play podcast. That's not anything I'm interested in. It's been over 20 years covering the PGA Tour that I've had these conversations, and nothing bores me more than that. However, when you have the commissioner talking to the media this week, when you have Roy McIlroy, when you have other players having to answer questions about Pace of Play. By the way, they finished up 10 minutes early on Sunday at Toy Fair. Third week in a row.

They have finished early on the PGA Tour. And here's where I'm going with this. I thought to myself, as I point this out, I hate doing this, that if anybody's going to have a good idea, a new idea, a fresh idea, it's got to be Mav, right? He's got the biggest brain of anybody playing golf, anybody on this podcast, anybody in golf. I'm going to go ahead and say it right there. Stanford grad, really, really smart guy. And it turns out he did have some good ideas. Now, I'm going to footnote this by saying his idea is to play in twosomes. And yes, that's true.

That's not great math going from threesomes to twosomes. You're going to play faster. I understand what you're saying here, but listen to what he had to say about this. First and foremost, if you go to twosomes, compare what he did on Thursday when they played in threesomes on a really, really slow golf course in a driving rain to what they did on Saturday, which is when I spoke to him, perfect conditions playing in twosomes. He played over an hour faster.

And so we're having this conversation right now. Rory touched on it. Colin Morikawa touched on it earlier this week. What are we going to do under the current system? Trim 15 minutes off an average round? What is that going to do? Is it really going to make that big of a difference for the product? I understand that. I agree with that concept. But if you start trimming more than an hour, now we are having a fun conversation. There were rounds, including Mavs on Saturday, that didn't last four hours, that finished up before the four-hour mark.

That is a good window, and it was because of twosomes, and his argument is, yes, you're going to play faster if you're not waiting for that third guy. However, his contention was, when you're playing in threesomes on the PGA Tour, the slow players can hide. They have somewhere to go. No one's going to call them out. You're never really going to get too far behind, and they can just keep moving along at their little slow plays. If you play in twosomes, they're exposed. There's nowhere for them to hide, and to get to this end, as I expected he would,

He had thought about this, and his argument was to cut from the PGA Tour cut, not this week, but most weeks, is top 65 and ties. His argument was cut to 60 because what ends up when it's 65 and ties, more times than not, you end up with somewhere close to 75 to 78 players.

who make the cut, which essentially takes you back to 156 player fields, which is what the PGA Tour moved heaven and earth to get away from starting next year. It's going to be 120, 132 players to improve the product.

If you have 60 players or somewhere around there and you can play in twosomes on the weekend, not only have you fixed the problem, quote unquote problem, on Thursday and Friday because you've cut fields to 120, 132, whatever the case may be, but now you've also fixed the problem on the weekend. I like this.

I certainly like it as well. I don't have much to add to your hashtag exclusive kudos to you, but that was exactly the right. Like the flow is just so much better with twosomes. And if that's when the biggest TV window is going to be on the weekend, you need to make it as palatable as possible. And you can even push it if you're in twosomes as late as possible to really maximize the TV window. Good job by you. Go to NBC sports.com slash golf for more Rex. Not sure if you caught this four nations face off thing, but,

that happened on Saturday night for hockey, but it's in lieu of the usual all-star game that had fallen flat and was not garnering many TV ratings. Are you loving or laughing the concept and whether this could actually work in golf?

I'm loving it. Didn't watch it, but sort of watched the news, and you seem to want to pick on the NHL. I just won't pick on the NHL. I think most all-star games, and I'm a baseball fan. NBA was way worse than the NHL one was. It was like passing through a hoop and whatever Wemby was doing on Saturday night was ridiculous. And the Pro Bowl thing that they do with the NFL now is not entertaining. I saw a ball.

Yeah, I just feel like most all-star games just fall flat. I just don't think there's anything there. There's not a lot of motivation for it to be a true competition. I will give the NHL so much credit because they created something that I am not a hockey fan. I'm paying attention.

I wanted to see the USA and Canada because that's something that means something to people who know more about hockey than I do. Now, I don't know if this is sustainable. My understanding is they actually want to create something bigger to include other nations. So I'm not sure if they'll revisit this. But this is another example, and I've made this point before on this podcast, where the NBA, they created content out of thin air with the – what's it called? The in-season tournament. Yeah.

And they were able to sell that to media partners and make more revenue. But the PGA Tour, now in the age of private equity and SSG, and certainly PIF is going to come in, it's something the tour needs to take a hard look at because you need to think outside the box if you're going to take your existing product and create more inventory, and they've done it.

They certainly have done it. I love this for a couple of reasons. Ardent listeners of this podcast will remember that I pitched after the after Kapalua and Century this year, like we need to have some sort of skills competition as it relates to the PGA Tour. Like golf lends itself to this sort of thing. Long drive competition, sharpshooting competitions, big break style stuff like that.

like you should be gussying up the season opening event. If you don't do that, however, which I still think that has some legs as well. I could see this format, which is what NHL has done sort of reinventing the Zurich classic tournament. You and I have both covered a lot over the past decade. Like you could get countries involved here with the two man teams, get match play involved. I really think that that could be a hit because when you're taking exhibition golf,

or you're taking exhibition basketball, or in this case, exhibition hockey, it only works if it's meaningful. And it was clearly meaningful to the NHL players, the Americans and the Canadians. There were three fights within the first 10 seconds.

There was passion. There was energy. There was enthusiasm. There was more than just this exhibition match in which it really didn't matter in the grand scheme of things. That's what golf has to tap into more than just the President's Cup or the Ryder Cup. I certainly love that idea. All right.

All right, before we get out of here, let's close it out with some punch shots. It was certainly a busy week at the Genesis Invitational and beyond. Tiger Woods, tournament host of the Genesis, was in the booth on Sunday with CBS saying that things are going to, quote, heal quickly, that the best players are all going to get back together. Could even happen this year. You buying that?

I am buying it because he's the loudest voice, best voice, the voice everyone's going to listen to in that room. And I'm talking about the policy board for the PGA Tour Enterprises. He was not able to attend the meeting last week with the president of the United States. The commissioner, Jay Monahan, was there. Adam Scott, who's also on the board, was there. Tiger was supposed to be there. But of course, with what happened with his mom, he had to go back to South Florida. But yes, I think when he talks,

People listen. And I think he's come in by all accounts. It's taking him a moment to get here, just like it took our colleague Johnson Wagner a moment to get here. But I think everyone's getting in line with essentially what Rory said this week, that the game is only going to get better if everyone is back together.

If you reunite the game, because right now this is not sustainable. And I think Tiger Woods understands that probably better than anyone. And I would also argue that if anybody has the sway to tell those players who stop being butthurt, which clearly didn't land well when Rory said it, but if Tiger said it, I think players will listen.

Yeah, I think there's a marked shift to from Tiger when we seen and heard from him over the past year. Rory said in his earlier media comments, 2026 was realistic. Tiger saying it could happen this year. I think the signature events make the most sense of sort of reincorporating live players if they wanted to. But then again, the last one last signature event of the year is the Memorial in early June. So I don't know if I mean, if Tiger Tiger's in the room, we should probably take what he says pretty seriously.

Xander Schauffele, Rex has targeted the Arnold Palmer Invitational from his return from a rib issue. He has only played the century this year, also played a TGL match. Do you think that that's enough time for Xander to contend in the Masters with limited appearance in the PGA Tour before the year's first major?

I think it is because he'll have a couple of starts. Obviously, he'll have the opportunity to quote-unquote knock the rust off. I think Johnson probably touched on the bigger concern that I have. When you start talking about injuries, and we'll go back to Scottie Scheffler's injury, that was not great, and you never want

to mess with your hands when you're a golfer because that's your only connection to the golf club. But that one, it seems to me over time would be fine. When you start talking about what Jordan Spieth, a wrist, or you start talking about what was Xander Shoffley, a rib injury, those can get aggravated. Those can linger longer than expected. You want to sit here and say, yes, it's a six month recovery time.

However, it's roughly six months. For some people, it's six months. For some people, it's eight. For some people, it's four. So there's always a concern. I'm not concerned about how much time he has available to him to ramp up for Augusta. I'm more concerned about the idea of what he will look like when he does come back.

Yeah, I think that's probably a fair concern. I mean, Xander could have rushed it. He could have played Phoenix. He could have played Torrey. I like the fact that he hasn't necessarily rushed his return. Scotty Scheffler has talked similarly about, you know, the time loss, trying to be patient. Xander, too, has been taking the long view of this injury. You would think...

playing Bay Hill, likely the players, probably needs to add another one, I would think, ahead of the year's first major. Houston probably makes a little bit of sense on that front as well. I just hope that Xander is in fine form for Augusta. He's played well there before, coming off the best year of his career. We'd like to see the world number two continue that sort of stretch. All right, speaking of injuries, you had a chance to catch up with Jordan Spieth after a miscut at Torrey. What do you have to say about the surgically repaired wrist injury

And are you concerned about Jordan? I was actually relieved that Johnson in the previous segment said that he didn't have any concern because I was a little bit when I spoke with Jordan after he missed the cut here this week. And it was probably best to be honest with you that he missed the cut. I think Johnson touched on the obvious that playing out of that rough, that was wet. It was cold. It probably wasn't the best conditions for, for what Jordan is trying to do with his wrist. I was a little shocked when Jordan told me, and you and I have ran across this a couple of times in the

our careers when it comes to Jordan, that he will just drop a bomb on you and you're not anticipating it. And this bomb was when I asked him, how would you assess the week? His comment to me was if, if,

What happened to me on 16 on Thursday in the worst of the weather and what happened is he hit a four iron and he told me he had to quote unquote save it with his hands. So you're flicking your wrist a little bit he's talked about this in the past. Those are the concerning shots those are the ones that hurt him. His comment to me was, if that happened again, he wasn't sure he was going to be able to finish the tournament. Don't like hearing that. Don't like that.

I don't like hearing that. And it's important to point out that this was a three-week stretch that he was testing everything. He was testing his game. He was certainly testing his wrist. He didn't play particularly well in the first event at Pebble Beach. He played really well.

and Scottsdale last week. He finished tied for fourth, and I think both of us were very optimistic. And I think what happened here at Torrey Pines was more of a byproduct of the conditions. Probably not the best golf course for him in the best of conditions. Probably not the best golf course for anyone who has a hurt wrist when you're trying to hit out of long, wet, cold, rough. And so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, but yeah, there's a level of concern there. Yeah, I could see that as well. He had the locked-up wrist injury.

In the first event at Pebble Beach, and now the issue hitting out of the grabby stuff. Look, it's going to happen. He probably wants to get back to that consistency that he had in 2015 and 2017. I think that's probably a little bit of an unrealistic expectation. If Jordan Spieth can pop up a handful of times this year,

If he can get himself into major contention once again, even at the Masters in a couple months' time, I still think that he would deem that a successful season. This is a very serious issue. We talked to Aaron Oberholzer a couple weeks ago who had similar issues with his hand and his wrist. Like, this could be a career ender if you force a return, if you're trying to make things happen and you can't. So I like the fact that Jordan now will have a couple weeks off.

Reassess, recover, and then ramp up for what should be a busy Florida swing. All right. That is going to do it for this edition of the Golf Channel Podcast with Rex and Lab. Just as a reminder, you can go to NBCSports.com slash golf for all the latest news, notes, and updates. Rex is going to have plenty of takes that he didn't even unleash here on the podcast from the final round of the Genesis Invitational, including a column on Ludwig Oberg. Thanks, as always, for listening. Thanks for the support. We'll talk to you guys on Wednesday afternoon.

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