Are Ryder Cup ticket prices good business or bad optics?
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How old is too old to go trick-or-treating?

Okay, first question. I did not decorate. My wife has. I will say the two hurricanes that we have had in the Jacksville area in the past three weeks have thrown a damper into some of those plans. They're either blowing away or we're taking them down, bringing them inside, and then we're forgetting to put them back out. We do have a couple skeletons around. We do still have some ghosts that are up in the tree. As it relates to trick-or-treating,

I still go, but basically just to accompany my five-year-old and my three-year-old. I have to brag, Rex. We have my three-year-old daughter going as an Oompa Loompa, but my five-year-old son is going, get this, as a Golf Channel reporter.

No kidding. He is going to be a mini me. We got him. Wait a minute. Is he a specific golf channel reporter or just me? Random golf. He's me. Nope. Nope. He is a, he is Cameron Labner, a future golf channel reporter. We got him like little tiny foot toy polos. He'll be wearing some very basic khakis like I do. I got him some on clouds. We got him a mic with the, with the golf channel flag. It's all going to be very cute.

We can, we can sort of save the Halloween discussion for a couple of weeks time. I I'm curious why you're even bringing this up on, on October 16th, because clearly you have a point to make. Uh, we had a, we had a Halloween party in our neighborhood and it's like the highlight of the year for my wife. She spends a lot of time thinking about what she wanted us to go as. And we had a disagreement because what she wanted me to go as was not appropriate. And she thinks I was being overly sensitive. Uh,

I'm not even going to say what she wanted me to go as. It would have gotten me canceled. Let's just leave it at that. Come on, say it. I'm not even going to say it. My alternative, though, was to go as Scottie Scheffler in the orange overalls, and she could go as Detective Brian Davis dressed up as an aggravated officer. Gillis! Brian Gillis! Put some respect on Brian Gillis' name. I always get that wrong.

And she said, no one's going to know what that is. No one would know what that is, she claimed. And so we go to this party as something else. We went as like horse riders in the dressage competition at the Paris Olympics. Anyway, there was like three people dressed as Scotty Scheffler and Detective Gillis. I was so mad. Like that would have been the perfect costume for me and everyone would have known. Right. Am I wrong? Yeah.

Absolutely. Everyone would have known the viral image from a couple of weeks ago. You'll remember with the two young kids who were dressed up as Skye Shuffler. The best part was the license plate behind it said, didn't it say Augusta on the license plate? Like it was just so perfect, so well done. Even Skye Shuffler appearing in the Subpar podcast with Colton Dose.

said that his wife Meredith showed him and he got an absolute kick out of it. I do think that was lame. I think the people at home, Rex, deserve to know. You can't just tease what your wife wanted you to do. You didn't actually do it. What did your wife want you to do?

that you eventually said no to. No, no, I didn't want to say it. I don't even want to say it because it's very inappropriate. And she didn't, she didn't understand why. And we even had to run it by a bunch of her friends who were like, yeah, Rex doesn't need to be dressed up as that. Even, even if it's just among friends, my point was, is that nothing is just among friends anymore. So we needed to be a little bit more careful about it because, and I will say this, and this is probably going to get me canceled in retrospect, but

I went as Jeffrey Dahmer, and she was my grandmother. If you remember that series from, I don't think it was last year. I think it was two or three years ago. And she just thought it was the funniest thing in the world. Well, those people that did this ended up getting canceled anyway. So it's along those lines. It just gives you an idea of where her head's at when she does this.

Your contract expires on December 31st. Getting canceled within the three-month window would certainly be a choice. Rush, let's move on to the golf news of the week. Let's start with sports business journal reporter and friend of the program, Josh Carpenter, reporting that Liv has quietly been exploring his

a new CEO for the organization. This of course is not the first time that Greg Norman's role has appeared to be at least in some jeopardy, but this time it sounds like he'll still be part of live, just moved into upper management. What's your read on this? Is this perhaps a sign that some concessions are being made? A deal is closer or is this an organization going through the machinations of

of upper level management and trying to get some different pieces in place. I think it's an evolving organization to your point. I think that's a really good way of putting it. And I think it's really easy to overlook the fact that live golf went from zero to a hundred and whatever miles an hour, really, really quickly. And to do that, they had to put a lot of people in positions that I'm going to say they weren't qualified for. And I think Greg Norman is one of those people. And look, he's going to push back on that and I'm going to get some hate and everyone's going to say that I'm a live golf hater. I'm,

I'm really not. I'm curious. I'm fascinated. I'm a reporter. I want to see how this all plays out going into the future. But if you were to tell me five years ago that Greg Norman is going to sit in the room and negotiate a media rights deal with a new startup, Goffley, I wouldn't have told you he was qualified for that. And again, it's not necessarily a shot against Greg Norman. Those things are really complicated. And we've seen in the past how

only people who have done this their entire lives really should be in that room and we see it from the tv media rights perspective and we see it from the sports league perspective again these are complicated they have to be handled in a very delicate way and everything else that live golf needs to negotiate for going forward uh we had a producer reach out to me i'm going to be on golf central talking about this later on today and mark zaner reached out to me last night and so i called a

a source at live golf. And the way this was described to me was essentially Greg would become the commissioner of the tour itself. And then there would be a CEO who is more qualified to sit into these negotiations for a new media rights deal and whatever corporate sponsorship they're trying to obtain going forward. I think that's a good move on their part. And my understanding is that Greg's completely on board. I'm sure that he'd much rather just deal with the tournaments and the players and trying to run a tour than all of the difficult parts of

of trying to get a business up and running again from the ground floor. And you look at what Live Golf has done the last couple of weeks. They just hired a former Nike executive to be their chief marketing officer from Josh Carpenter's report in Sports Business Journal, which was very good. They're looking for some other C-suite folks, some other chief executives to step in. And so this seems like a good way to fill it out. To answer your final question was, how does this impact the negotiations? I don't think it really impacts them at least substantially.

Because Greg has made it clear he's not in that room for these negotiations. This is between the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia and the PGA Tour and to a lesser extent, the DP World Tour. Greg is very much on the outside of that. Now, I think it might help on some level when you look at the animosity that folks on the PGA Tour side have had towards Greg, specifically Roy McIlroy, Tiger Woods.

has even had some nasty comments. So if you, I don't want to say take Greg out of the picture because that's clearly not going to be the case, but if you minimize his role a little bit, tone down the rhetoric a little bit, I could see how this could help move some sort of potential deal going forward. Yeah, I think that's well said. It's always made sense. I guess the only surprise is that it took this long to

to move Greg Norman out of the CEO role. Like it always made sense to have a front facing global icon like Greg Norman as the sort of face or head of

of the league, sort of be a spokesman, sort of be the chief recruiter, the lead recruiter for the organization. And then eventually you turn the business over to a professional who has dozens of years of experience leading a mega major organization to the last point. And whether this is potentially a positive sign for the developments between the PGA tour and study public investment fund. I mean, folks like Rory McIlroy and Tiger Woods have been saying since the fall of 2022,

two years ago that Norman has to go and it hasn't happened yet. I, it wouldn't surprise me Rex, if that was, uh,

sort of one of the terms or the conditions of a deal that Norman can't be in that CEO role. In that sense, it's probably a little bit encouraging to think that this is moving along in that respect. But I don't think it's any more encouraging than the optics of seeing Jay Monahan, Yassir Al-Rumai and Guy Kinnings all together in Scotland playing at the Dunhill Lynx. Again, this does not feel

imminent and if you're the tour and trying to get the best deal possible with the pif you'd want to wait a little bit longer for leverage but maybe this is a little bit of sign

that maybe there's some light at the end of the tunnel. And talking with people on the live side, I think everyone all along understood that this was going to be the end game. Eventually you need someone sitting in that role that knows more about business than they know about golf. And that wasn't going to be Greg Norman. People are going to point out that he, he ran a bunch of businesses. I would question how many of them were actually successful, but,

So I don't think he was the guy to be that CEO going forward. And look, we could probably have the exact same conversation about Jay Monahan, given where we are in the state of the game right now. And I'm not picking on either side. I'm just stating facts. I don't know who is qualified.

to be in that room with Yasser Al-Ramai and try to negotiate a multi-billion dollar deal that's going to be scrutinized by the Department of Justice and probably the U.S. Senate. So none of those things are easy, but I do think this is probably just another, if nothing else, then just window dressing. Yeah.

Liv Goff can say, look, the one person that everyone seemed to have a problem with is now kind of in a diminished role. We have someone else in here who you can talk to that hasn't been sort of stoking the flames on social media or in the media in general. I think that's helpful. I think there's another aspect to this, and it's important to point out that Yasser Al-Rahman is nothing else if he's very, very loyal to the players who joined Liv Goff. And I think Greg Norman is going to be another example. It would probably be easier for him

just to tell Greg to go away and just to replace him as CEO slash commissioner with someone else that's maybe more open, easier to negotiate with. In this particular case, it's clear that Yasser is going to be loyal to Greg, just like he's been loyal to every player who's come over. You've seen the way he handles. He's paying all the fines for the players who want to play the European tour. He's stuck behind all of these contracts. I think it's a sign. The little bit we know about Yasser, that is an interesting part.

Yeah. And the commissioner role does make a lot of sense. It could still allow Greg Norman to go to every single event. It could still allow him to sort of spread the live gospel. It could allow him to still be that front facing figure. Who's giving interviews for better or worse. That seat. It does seem like a better, a better role for Greg Norman than again, running the actual business. Since last we talked on the podcast, right? You were in New York city for the Ryder cup year to go event. Um,

I wish we'd waited a couple days, and I guess we didn't know that this was going to be coming out. But the prices for the 2025 Ryder Cup matches, they went viral on social media. If you guys missed it, Kevin Van Valkenburg, another friend of the program of No Laying Up, put the prices out there from the RyderCup.com fax. So this is legit. This is from the PGA of America's own website. The prices will be $255 for a practice run at Bethpage Black.

$750 for each of the three competition days. Keep in mind, those are all day affairs from about seven to seven. They do have a morning session and an afternoon session. The 750 also includes free food and non-alcoholic beverages. It does seem aggressive, Rex, but again, there must be a market for it since you are near New York City.

What do you think? Is this egregious price gouging? Is this horrible optics after the last three years of greed? Will this turn the 2025 Ryder Cup into essentially a 2023 U.S. Open where there was a quiet crowd that's essentially been priced out by the market? What do you think?

I think it could definitely do that. You go back to LACC and that was clearly a country club crowd. It wasn't very loud. It wasn't very raucous. It isn't what we've come to expect from our major championships. Certainly the Ryder cup is being built and we, we continue to build it up as probably the biggest party that golf has seen in a very long time. If you're paying $750 a day to be there though, you're probably not going to be the guy who's going to want to get kicked out on the first hole. You're probably going to want to hang around and make the most of your entire day. If our, if,

text threads or any indication you were so angry about this that, and I did not share your anger at all. Cause my point was, I said, I believe I said laughable or, or ridiculous. Keep in mind you and I, you and I, my response was people will pay that much. Like, that's my point. You like, I,

I learned this a long time ago early in this business. You are what someone's willing to pay you. Your market value is whatever golf channel or someone else is willing to pay you right now. The market value for one of those tickets, I'm sure, is in that $750 range because the PGA of America has probably flushed this out. And they've realized that, oh, we can sell out at this price just like we could sell out at $50 a day if we wanted to do it that way.

It's just economics. Like I'm totally on board with this. You're right. It's probably going to impact the type of person that gets into the Ryder Cup. And maybe we had this long discussion about this last week. That's maybe not a bad thing. But if you're the PG of America, why would you price it for less when you know you can get that much for that ticket? I mean, yeah, clearly you can get it. And look, I think you and I are terrible sources on this because, again, we are paying an exact total of zero.

dollars to attend the 2025 Ryder Cup. Any expenses that we are incurring the week of at Bethpage Black, whether it's our airfare, whether it's our transportation, whether it's our meal, are being taken care of by our employer. So again, we are not the best judges of whether or not this is fair or foul. I do think

It looks egregious in the sense that for the last three years, we've been looking at player greed, organizational greed, all of this infighting over money. And all of a sudden you're going to charge $750 for one day of a spectator event. That's not even a good watch. The Ryder Cup might be the worst tournament to attend in golf. You can't get particularly close to the action.

You can't see anything. All of the action, as opposed to being spread over 18 holes like you'd see at a regular PGA Tour event, is essentially confined to four different holes. Singles matches, obviously, are a different animal. But they're going to be on four separate holes. So you're going to have roughly 10,000 people following along. You can't see a lot of the greens at Bethpage Black are going to be elevated.

Like it's, it is a very, very tough sell from that respect, just like an actual sporting conversation. And we can get into that in a little bit, but I think this, this will Rex renew some of those arguments that,

that these players should be paid for, for playing like revenue sharing with the players has to be a consideration at this point. It was just a year ago. The Patrick Cantlay was being taunted for, for the hat gate and all that went into it. Xander Shoffley and his father, Stefan not happy about the sense about the fact that they were not being compensated for their efforts as well. Like in what other sporting pursuit in 2024, uh,

Would players be asked to play for free? And I know that the PGA of America gives them $200,000 that they can use for the charity of their choice. But this is a massive, monumental sporting event. And being asked and asking the players to show up basically to play for their country for free, I think just does not fly in this age of

nil and athlete empowerment it doesn't and again this goes back to the idea that every league is going to say they're going to do what's best for the fan we've seen time and time again that more times than not the leagues do what's best for the leagues and the bottom line in this particular case to to answer your question about comparison like i was really really curious what this and you're right it's it's not the the best spectator event you're paying for it might be the worst it might it literally might be the worst you

Yeah, I mean you're paying to get on property, to yell some things, to be a part of the vibe, to post on Instagram and TikTok. I totally get it. But from a viewer perspective, a fan perspective, the Ryder Cup is not what you want. Again, we are not good judges on this. We are inside the ropes. We have an unadulterated view of what we can see.

However, if you are a fan, you need to get to the first tee by what? 5 a.m.? Like, you're literally running in order to get to the grandstand. Again, you're not going to be able to see a whole lot around the greens. You're not going to be close to the action, particularly with some of the concerns they're going to have about fan behavior. Like, they're going to have those ropes way off the field.

uh, the fairway, you can certainly imagine in that respect. You mentioned comparable sporting events for that price. Like, okay. I went to a, a Buffalo bills, Monday night football game. When I played the Jags, I knew you were going to get to that paid. I paid 80 bucks.

for that ticket. Lakers bad Lakers, but it's still Buffalo, which Buffalo sells out. The Buffalo bill sold every single game. It was, it was $80 for a Monday night football game ticket. The Lakers sons game in a couple of weeks time, you can get in for one 25, uh, the Kansas city chiefs and the San Francisco 49ers play on Sunday. It's a big matchup. You can get in for about $200 each. Uh, right now I was actually surprised by this $250. Uh,

Rex gets you in for Dodgers, Mets, NLCS. Again, that price hikes up to about $1,200 for the World Series. I would assume a Subway Series would be much more than that. Super Bowl is obviously going to be four bills, five bills, depending on your seat. So in that respect, Rex, like $750 is still a little bit high. But again, it's about 12 hours of fun. And if you're the PJ of America, if you can –

If you can fetch it, why wouldn't you charge that? Well, and here's the comp that I wanted to go to. You pointed out. It is going to be the atmosphere. You're going for the party. You're right. You're going to drink. You're going to yell some things. You're going to stand on the first tee and sing songs. By comparison, I almost want to compare it to the way Formula One race is.

have evolved into just parties with a race that's going on in the middle. And I just looked it up. So for the Formula One race in November, which I think is the next one coming up in Brazil, it's 697 Euro, which is very comparable to $750. If you keep scrolling down the one in Vegas, which I think is later this year, that's $1,500. That's a one-day ticket. So no, that's not a fair comparison. But again, people are paying it and that's what they're paying for.

They're not particularly paying to see the cars go in circles. They're paying to be part of this atmosphere, part of the party. And I think that's what the PGA is trying to capitalize on when it comes to the Ryder Cup. That's very interesting to hear that the prices for F1 are that expensive because, because like, keep in mind what I, I remember talking to Roy about a year ago and I asked him like what his vision for these signature events were on the PGA tour. And he essentially, he said they wanted to create,

an F1 style event on the PGA tour, where if you've got,

I don't know, the Travelers Championship. Like you have a party set up in Cromwell, Connecticut. And oh yeah, the best players in the world are also going to be playing golf. And so he even anticipated like Thursday, Friday, probably going to be slightly smaller crowds, still less juice because again, it's just sort of the run-up in the tournament. And then on the weekend, it should be a happening where the people who are there to party also see some golf and then you have some post-round entertainment as well.

That's not going to fly on the PGA Tour for $750 to $1,500 a ticket. That's essentially what they're asking them to do. If the F1 stops are going to be in Austin and Vegas and Miami and everywhere else, same thing on the PGA Tour. Whether you're going from

Harbor town to, to TBC river Highlands to pebble beach. Like that, that to me seems like a, a, a big picture discussion topic for what the PJ tour should do as well. Because again, you do run the risk of eliminating a certain segment of the population. That's going to look at that price tag and just be like, Nope, way too aggressive. Can't do it. And it's just, you're, you're catering to a certain, uh,

level of socioeconomic status, which is exactly what golf should be getting away from at this point. And the atmosphere in turn is, I think could potentially be, be harmed. Well, it's the economies of scale in this particular case. And I think we said this last week, the Ryder cup is by far the most popular event

In golf, it's not the biggest event. It's not the most important event, but it's by far the most popular event. It's one of the most popular sporting events. And I think that's why you see this sort of crossover pricing where you can compare it to a Formula One race or an ALCS game or one of the bigger sporting events that go on. It just in general in the world. And so I don't think you're going to have that when it comes to Bay Hill.

the Arnold Palmer Invitational here in my hometown of Orlando. No, you're not going to get $750 a day for a ticket, but you're probably going to end up getting $150 or $200 a day.

You folks are very good on the YouTube channel of letting us know what you think. Put it in the comments. It's 750. What are your season tickets at the Jags games? You bragged about this on numerous occasions. So give me an idea. Ballpark. There's no sort of bragging about a one in five team. Let's be very clear. And I would expect that tickets will be slashed. I think my text to you on Sunday morning. Tickets will be slashed for 2025. There's no doubt. I think my text to you on Sunday morning is the Jaguars approved that Americans still don't like the Brits because that's the football we gave them.

It's going to get worse on Sunday. The Patriots and the Jaguars, those poor people in London, have to witness that. Again, two of the four worst teams in the NFL going head-to-head. That's got 13-6 written all over it. As it pertains to the price tag, I think it was like $1,500 per seat, which divided by seven games. I'm not very good. We were talking in our text group, Shane, about like,

Should we drop the season tickets and just sort of do it a la carte? Do we really want to see the Titans play or can you just spend a little bit more? Again, spend $150 for a ticket when the Packers come to town or the Vikings come to town.

I think that's probably a different conversation that we can have. But again, 750 is very high. Let us know in the comments whether you would be willing to shell out that sort of money to see essentially 12 hours of golf. Hey, plus food and non-alcoholic beverages. One other storyline I wanted to get into, Rex, before we shut down the podcast for today is Matt McCarty.

Continuing his red hot run, became the first player since Jason Gore in the mid 2000s, our boy Jason Gore, to earn a promotion on the Corn Fairy Tour and then win on the PGA Tour.

in the same season, incredibly impressive shows, just the, the high caliber that, not, not that, not just Matt McCarty has been playing, but sort of that top level corn fairy tour player as well. It did. However, rec continue a trend of all three fall winners being outside the top 100 in the world rankings, only nine players total, uh,

have played this fall who are among the top 50 in the FedExCup standings. Matt McCarty is going to be playing at Augusta National. Meanwhile, number 31 in the FedExCup will not as of now. Should the fall winners in the PGA Tour, again, it's no longer a wraparound. The top players are no longer required to play them or risk falling way down the FedExCup race. Should the fall winners still get that perk?

of going to Augusta National. I think in the short term, until you can get a better picture, because you keep referring to the world ranking, and I've gotten to the point in my mind, I know that's what we have to use, and we also use the DataGolf rankings, which I feel is actually a better representation of where we are right now. But let's face it, world ranking's broken. And so you can sit here and say, only, I didn't realize, that's actually a really good stat, that only that many players outside the top 50 have even participated in the fall. However...

We don't even know what the world ranking is anymore. So I think Augusta National, and we've seen this in the past, they usually take a long, hard look at these types of things. And in this particular case, there has been the precedent set that, okay, the fall events come with these perks and one of them being an invite to the Masters.

We also know that Augusta is an adverse to taking a long, hard look and doing something that could probably potentially hurt the fall events. This is a bigger question. This is a bigger conversation just about the fall events. And I wrote about it, I think two weeks ago in my Friday notes column, because the idea is to your point, they have, they're,

quickly becoming an afterthought. And I wrote about it the week of the Sanderson Farms because Sanderson Farms was stepping down as the title sponsor. I think they're still going to be involved in the tournament. I've spoken with other sponsors in the fall and it's the same sentiment. If you're not getting the bang for your buck, again, this goes back to the economy of scale. If the companies aren't getting out what they feel like they're putting into these events and up until this point they have, but

I think what the fall is going to evolve into is going to have to become something different than what it is right now. Essentially, it's a six, seven, eight week Q school now for guys to either improve their status or get status period. That,

That's fine. There has to be these avenues for players to play their way back in. But if that's what they're going to become, then yes, you need to take a long, hard look at the Masters invite. You need to take a long, hard look at should those players be exempt for two years on the PGA Tour? Because what you're doing, and look, I think Matt McCarty's had a phenomenal, I mean, he has done all of this since July. That's three wins on the Korn Ferry Tour and winning on the PGA Tour. I think he has one other top five on the PGA Tour as well over the course of that season. That's all impressive, but you can't,

compare Matt's win last week at the black desert event to, I don't know, fill in the blank, whatever, whatever regular season tour event you want to compare it to. You can do it rankings wise, but as I just mentioned, I feel like those are broken on some level. What Matt accomplished last weekend was awesome and he should be rewarded for that. But we're getting to the point where you need to take a long, hard look at exactly how much should he be rewarded. Yeah. I mean, as it pertains to the masters and their field criteria, uh,

Like we're, this was the first year that they'd returned to the calendar year schedule on the PGA tour. It does seem like only a matter of time before Augusta looks at these fall events, sees how weak the fields are, sees the average world ranking of the, of the, of not just the winners, but the participants and how deep they're going on the alternate list just to sort of fill out these fields and just be like, ah, I think we're good. I think we can go ahead and fill out our field in, in, in myriad other ways. And again, they, they always try to keep it,

Under 100, the average field size over the past two decades is somewhere around 91. They're not going to have any trouble doing that. But I think they're already showing plenty of love to the PGA Tour as Augusta National. Anyone who makes it to the Tour Championship automatically gets into the Masters field. Any regular season win, regardless of stature, is getting into the Masters. I think there has to be...

Another way, maybe there's sort of this Rolex series swing on the DP world tour. Like if you're, if you're Augusta national, if you're the masters, you were trying to get the strongest field possible.

That is why Chairman Fred Ridley and the tournament committee are looking at other ways to sort of get in the outstanding live players through other avenues and tournament exemptions and that sort of thing. And so they're always going to have their amateurs. They're always going to have the past champions. They're going to have the best and the brightest from the PGA Tour. But if you're the Masters, you want to have the strongest possible field.

picking off the seven or eight winners from the PGA Tour, which again are paling in comparison to field strength to right now what's happening on the DP World Tour. There has to be another way. And I would anticipate in the next year or two, the Masters coming to that.

conclusion as well. Well, and I just looked it up. So the best comparison is the week of the Sanderson farms, which the winner got 30.8 points compared to the Dunhill links championship, which was the European tour event. And I got 37.8 points. One of those guys that won not to roll Hatton, who won at the Alfred Dunhill links championship, got an invitation to the master. So you see how the system is flawed right now.

Yeah, it does not seem like a good situation. Rex and I will get into what can be done to save the fall, if anything, in future podcasts. Right now we've already elapsed our time, and Rex has to get ready for Golf Central.

That is going to do it for this edition. Golf channel podcast with Rex and lav. You guys know the drill NBC sports.com slash golf for our latest news notes and updates over the next week in golf Rex. We back next week. Very full podcast breaking down the week. That was in the world of golf. Thanks for listening. Thanks for the support. We'll talk to you guys next week. Congrats, Pam. Big week.

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