Chaos! Carnage! Controversy! And the clutch shots to win the 2025 U.S. Open
51:25 Share

If your small business has a problem, you could say, Ugh, just my luck. But you should say, Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. And we'll help get you back in business. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mint Mobile, unlimited premium wireless. I bet you get 30, 30, I bet you get 30, I bet you get 20, 20, 20, I bet you get 20, 20, I bet you get 15, 15, 15, 15, just 15 bucks a month. Sold! Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. I'm

Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes if network's busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com. Hello and welcome into this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lav. And to quote the great Mike Breen...

JJ Spahn from way downtown. Bang! Yes. Needing two putts to win perhaps the most chaotic U.S. Open in history. JJ Spahn drilled a 64-foot birdie putt in the 72nd hole to win by two shots at Oakmont. Rex, I don't know about you, but a few hours later, I'm still buzzing about this one.

This was pretty cool. And I have to admit, we don't get to see this very often. And there were some we're going to get into it. There were so many contenders. There were so many players who had an opportunity at one point. I believe there were six players tied for the lead before we had the rain delay. And so many players played their way in and played their way out of that championship. And so many of them just happened to be on camera in that moment. Probably the best is Terrell Hatton. He was sitting at the microphone giving his post round press conference.

And he's sort of answering a mundane question the only way that Hatton can answer a question. But you can tell he's kind of staring absentmindedly at the screen. And I think his reaction was, holy smokes, he made it. And at that point, you sort of got the emotion. It showed Robert McIntyre. He was in scoring. He started clapping. And he was like, wow. And I think everybody appreciated the moment for J.J. because it was such –

An emotional day for him. And we're going to get into it. But for him to cap it off like that, because there's probably a lot of people that didn't know who J.J. Spahn was before this U.S. Open. Maybe they sort of just parachuted in based on what he did at the Players' Championship. But this showed an enormous amount of grit for a player that really had been under the radar for pretty much his entire career.

I don't know what your process is on Sunday night at Major Championships, but I keep a running file, basically a running notes file. And I'm marking down critical turning points, maybe some stats. There you go. Things that I'm going to want to use for my story later. And it got to a point on the back nine where I just sort of threw my hands up. I told the producer, Fred, I'm going out there. I just need to go out there and I need to see it for myself because this was insanity.

in the final round. You had wind for the first time all week at Oakmont. We're going to get into that and sort of the conditions that players face this week. You had three putts galore, particularly over that front nine. The final pairing, the final two pairings, Rex, as they made the turn, were 14 over par

On the front side, which is bringing in a whole host of players, including John Rom, who may have at one point thought about turning his private jet around and not going on to Arizona or Dallas, wherever he's headed next. You had an hour and a half weather delay.

I think there was some question whether you were even going to get out on the golf course because it was so unplayable and you had so much flooding. It had so many streams and the cambers of the fairways and the wild undulations of the green. And even when they did play, Rex, there was multiple downpours. I mean, guys hiding under umbrellas, keeping their grips wet. Sam Burns was staring at a 301-yard par 3 touchdown.

when the horn sounded. That was the very first shot that he had to step up after essentially a 100-minute delay, ended up striping it just over the back. So you had Rex...

like eight to 10 players on this Sunday who had a realistic chance to win this golf tournament. Most of them coughed it up, but we're going to get into that in a minute. But you had, I think, a triumphant moment and a triumphant champion, which sort of makes you feel good at the end of all of this chaos. J.J. Spahn went out and won the golf tournament. I think that's a very satisfying feeling for viewers. Yeah, and I think that's probably...

the lead of any story that you would write. Whatever it is, we scribble down in our notes that J.J. Spahn went out and won it. That's always the debate. It's the sports radio debate that we ended up having. Did he win? Did someone else lose? And you could probably make the argument. That's funny because I texted our colleague, Brentley Roman, who was handling the Sunday night game story on NBCSports.com slash golf. And I said, just do vignettes of the guys who blew it. Like that to me was the main story. What happens?

Then JJ Spahn goes out, hits a shot of his life on 17, steps up on 18, and plays the whole of his life. And then I went to him, and after I said, yeah, go ahead and just focus on JJ for this one.

And you could probably come up with a bunch of different reasons how guys blew it. And we can pick it apart. I think Sam Burns is probably the most interesting one where he was playing so well before the rain delay, before that 100-minute weather delay. And when he came back, you could tell he just wasn't comfortable. Maybe it was the water that was in the fairway. Certainly the conditions had changed dramatically. He had a lot of shots. After that, we're going to get into the drop that he didn't get on 15. The idea that he had the opportunity to win this, he probably was the one that

you could make the argument to lost it. But when it came to JJ spawn, and we talked about this earlier in the week, there were a lot of reasons for him to react instead of respond. And that was sort of the line that his swing coach, Adam, Adam Schreiber gave him earlier in the week. You need to decide if you're going to react or you're going to respond when you're five over through the first six holes. That's when you really need a gut check. That's when you really need to decide, am I going to react or am I going to respond? And it wasn't easy. I mean, I could,

only imagine the demons at that point. Everything was spiraling. You were pretty much out of the tournament. You probably felt like that I have blown this opportunity to win a major championship. How many more of these am I going to get? He only had one top 10 finish, I think, in 12 other starts and major championships. So I can only imagine the things that were going through his mind. And his caddy told me that one, the

The whistle blew right about, I think they were going to the 10th tee. No, I guess they were on the ninth hole when the whistle blew because of the weather delay. He actually heard J.J. almost give it a high five, like, oh, thank God. This was something that he needed. He needed the timeout. He needed an intermission. He needed to go to the locker room and sort of reassess. He went in. He changed clothes. He sat and talked with Adam Schreiber.

He sat and talked with Josh Gregory, his short game coach. He absolutely needed to regroup. And when he came back out, he was by far the best player. And not just because he won, just the way he was able to execute shots. And I think that's huge.

It certainly is huge. And I think J.J. Spahn, keep in mind, this is the biggest stage that he's ever been on. The highlight reel finish that he had. There's going to be a lot of people who watched it who are casual golf fans who are tuning in and say, who the heck is this guy? I think the more you dig in to J.J. Spahn's story, I think his victory will resonate even deeper. Keep in mind, this was a player who last June,

you know, thought that his PGA tour career might be over.

He was well outside the top 125 with only a few events remaining in the FedExCup season. He was feeling the pull of home. He thought he was simply content with his career. He had one win. He had $12 million in the bank. He'd made some lifelong friends. Like he was already thinking at the age of 33 that he was, you know, probably looking at a second chapter. He felt at peace with what he was able to do. And there was a turning point last summer where he said, just stop being afraid. You know, stop –

Stop dwelling on what could be and just enjoy golf for what it is. Let golf be golf. And he had had so many times in his career. I know he won at the Valero in 2022, but there had been times and he detailed this at the players championship where he shied away from the big moment.

And there was a tournament at Memphis, the first playoff event in 2022. He was just a few months removed from winning and he collapsed in that final. I think he shot 78 tumbled all the way outside the top 30. And he described that to me as being sort of a, a crawl in a hole moment where he just wanted to, to, to crawl in a hole and die. And for the next couple of years, he,

He basically did not want to put himself in that position to potentially get embarrassed again. And through work with his swing coach, through talks with his family, he has finally come to realization that no, like there's nothing to be afraid of. I want the ball. I want to go down swinging no matter what happens. You certainly saw that at the players championship.

When he rallied after a tough Sunday, ended up getting the playoff with Roy McIlroy. Even though he lost there, he still hit what he thought was a great shot on 17. And we saw it happen again. He was five over through six holes. He battled back, birdied four of his last seven and prevailed. He has a story of grit and perseverance. And it's that sort of humanity. We certainly saw it with Roy McIlroy at the Masters. But I think that was sort of an underlying storyline for J.J. Spahn as well.

Well, and he's a work in progress. I told this story earlier in the week, but it's probably worth in this context retelling that on Thursday before he teed off, he turned to his swing coach, Adam Schreiber. And Adam Schreiber also taught Lou Holtz, the great Notre Dame football coach. And Lou Holtz used to have a saying that you needed a Lou Holtz talk is what he, it was what he called that. And when I asked Adam what that meant, he said, either that means you're going to get a kick in the butt and he didn't use the word, but, or you're going to get a hug. And I said, in this particular case,

that JJ turned to him before Thursday's round, which was phenomenal by any standard. One of the best rounds of the week we saw on that really demanding golf course. And it was essentially, I'm afraid I feel like I have to be perfect. And I don't know that if I can be perfect. And in that point in time, Adam felt like he needed a hug, not a kick in the butt. But you get the idea of how

this is for him. It's not as though he is Scotty Scheffler and he just embraced this light side of himself and was just able to fly and soar like an eagle. That's not what happened at all. This is a continuing battle, not just from tournament to tournament, not just from round to round, but if you walk,

really closely enough on Sunday at Oakmont. He was battling from hole to hole, from shot to shot. Because if you look through those first six holes when he was five over, I don't know that I've ever seen a player get that many bad breaks in that small span of time. He ended up in a divot. He ended up in the worst possible lies. And look, there was a lot of bad lies.

We're going to hit it off the stick and it rolled 50 yards. He hit it off a rake that ended up with an impossible lie in the church bunkers. You can keep going on and on. Like he was really getting piled on. It seemed like that golf course absolutely hated him. It would have been really easy for any golfer.

to just turn tail and be like, man, it's clearly not my day. And for him to keep it together enough that when that break did come, that when the rain came and you went to the locker room and you were able to take a breath and you were able to think it through, to rebound enough and watch everyone else around you essentially fall away while you play probably some of your best golf, that was really cool to watch.

I also think a lot of it boils down to belief. And I don't even know if it's fair to characterize J.J. Spahn as a journeyman. He's 34 years old, one win. He's won. You know, $10 million to $20 million in career earnings.

at this point, but it's all about stacking experiences that when you actually get into this big moment, he now feels like he has the ability to do it. That's why the players championship was so massive. I talked to him about this on Saturday night, just sort of stacking those experiences. There was nothing that happened that,

that Sunday at the players championship, that was not going to benefit him moving forward. And I think now when you sort of zoom back, there are some pretty striking similarities for how those two tournaments work.

Played out. Keep in mind, at least the players championship, he had the 54 hole lead. He'd been sleeping on it for a couple of nights. He said it was sort of anxious. He wasn't sleeping well. He had a really rough start, ended up having a lengthy delay during that golf tournament, rallied on the back nine, had a player in Roy McRae come back to him.

at that point had an opportunity with a long putt on the 72nd hole to win, doesn't get it done. Fast forward now to the U S open, although he was not sleeping on the lead, he was in the penultimate group. He had the bogey for 66 and,

on Thursday in which he was sleeping on the lead, has a rough start, gets a break, rallies on the back nine, has people come back to him. This time, though, he was ready for it. This time he was prepared. This time he had experiences with which he could draw back on. And I think that's really what the difference maker was this time. Obviously, he hit incredible shots.

Coming down the stretch, birding four of his last seven when there was so much carnage around him. The tee shot on 17, the tee shot on 18, the iron shot into 18, the home hole, knowing that he needed a par to win the 125th US Open. The putt as well, I think, was sort of a bonus at that point. He would not be able to hit those shots under that pressure had he not had those prior experiences already.

earlier this year not just at tpc sawgrass and the players championship and golf swift major also had a chance to win the sony also had a chance to win cognizant classic as well well and he didn't sleep at all apparently last night his swing coach told me that his youngest daughter was up throwing up all night long so like most parents he was up with his daughter is that not fitting for the u.s open everyone's everyone's puking even the competitors kids

Very good metaphor. I like that. That's perfect. However, I will say, and also like the players championship, you had that delay that caused the Monday finish and everything that went else into it. All of it, he was able to learn from all of it. He was able to process. I would go back to the players championship and he didn't have his best game that week. And I think he learned a lot about himself as a player that even if I don't have my best game, as long as I have my best attitude, that I can probably come out here and compete and do what I need to do.

All right. Brentley's probably writing 4,000 words as we speak on JJ Spahn. What sort of angle are you taking as it relates to this U.S. Open on Sunday night?

The mental game that it takes to win a U.S. Open, especially this U.S. Open at Oakmont, because there were a lot of players that showed up this week who probably felt like they were playing some of the best golf of their career. Certainly Sam Burns, who we'll probably talk a little bit more about. He was fresh off of just an unbelievable finish the week before the Canadian Open where he lost in a playoff, felt like he was perfected.

was perfectly suited for this game. Ball striking wise, no one was putting better from six, seven, eight feet, which was crucial when you're trying to avoid those three putts.

the mental game that it takes time and time again to step up on this particular golf course and know that you're going to get punched in your face. And I heard a couple rich learner was, was leaning into the boxing metaphors on live from throughout the entire week. Cause this did feel like a brawl. It was, it's very apropos of this place in Pittsburgh, the steel city that you stand on those teas and you feel like you're taking punches to the mouth every single time that everything you do,

it doesn't matter how perfect you feel like you are. That's the angle I'm going to take. Because you have a player that has probably doubted himself his entire career, doubted his ability, doubted if he really belonged on the PGA Tour, doubted if he was ever going to be one of those players that really stood at the hierarchy of the game. And somehow he was able to overcome all those doubts. He's now a top 10 player in the world. I just looked at the world golf rankings.

He is probably now a front runner to make the Ryder Cup team. He is probably now all of these things that are running out. He's going to make it to the Tour Championship. All those things that he probably, and he kind of admitted it during his celebration speech, that he never thought about winning a major championship. Like there's so many times, I'll go back to Rory's speech,

Rory's comments last week when he was talking about getting to the top of the mountain. He had thought about putting the green jacket on. He dreamt about that. He had never dreamt about what came next. In this particular case, JJ hadn't even allowed himself to dream about that.

I like that angle. I'm relieved that that is different enough from the angle that I'm going to take for NBC Sports. And if it wasn't, you were going to change it. You were going to switch up at the last minute. No, I was still powering ahead anyway and giving Fred 2,000 bad words. My angle is going to be why I love this U.S. Open and why, to me, this U.S. Open was perfect. The golf course, Oakmont, was incredibly difficult.

We had players who, like Justin Thomas, I talked to him briefly on the range on Saturday. He came back to the golf course to get in some practice, even after missing the cup before he heads on to Connecticut, the Travelers Championship. He's just like, dude, this is the hardest golf course I've ever played. Didn't even feel like I played that bad.

And just got my teeth kicked in. There's that element of intimidation and just an overwhelming sense that this golf course is just going to beat you to a pulp. You had Wyndham Clark reportedly smashing up his locker. That's the sort of thing that Oakmont can do to you. So you have that's one aspect.

the conditions were incredibly challenging, whether it was the wind that you had for the first time on Sunday, whether you always had the spitting rain, getting water on the club face, having water in the fairways, sort of creating flyer lies. Obviously, one of the days on Thursday, it was a little bit firmer and faster. On Saturday, it was more receptive and you had better scoring. So I love the varying levels of conditions as well. Players were clearly pushed

to the breaking point. And anyone who stood outside the scoring room on Sunday night saw that with players one after one, just those particularly who had sort of kicked away their chances to win, whether it was a Scotty Scheffler or a Terrell Hatton or a Cam Young,

or a Victor Hovland, Adam Scott, a Sam Burns, one by one, those players came in and they just looked absolutely beat to hell. And that's what the U S open can do. That's what the U S open is supposed to do. So you had all of that confluence of events happening.

In addition to then, as I mentioned, a player going out and winning it, hitting two shots of his life, the drive on 17, in my opinion, the drive on 18. Those are the two shots that won JJ Spahn this U.S. Open. That is, in essence, is a perfect golf championship. Incredibly difficult course.

conditions that push the players to the breaking point, and then a player who does something sublime and walks away with his first major title. Of the contenders that we've touched on, and there were, as we said, there was probably half a dozen, at least, true contenders who, until the very end, really had a chance. Which one of them surprised you the most, that they weren't able to get it across the finish line? I mean, we only got a 52-minute podcast here. I think the player who's probably smarting the most

on Sunday night is Terrell Hatton. This is a player who thought that he was going to be in a good spot after he hit his tee shot on 17. From where that pin was,

He knew, yes, a perfect shot gets him on the green. However, if you could miss in that right bunker, nicknamed Big Mouth, no. Now for our friend, Randall Chamblee, as John Swaggner pointed out on Golf Channel's Live from this week, he thought that he was going to be in a good spot to potentially get up and down, get to even par, and probably win the golf tournament outright if he could just par the 72nd hole. Instead...

His ball hangs up in the really tall rough just outside the bunker on a severe downslope. Absolutely dead. Flubs it. Flubs it again. Ends up walking up with a bogey.

You know what happened on the 72nd hole as well. Walked up with another bogey. To me, that was the player who had a real opportunity. Bob McIntyre played incredibly well. The only player to shoot consecutive rounds in the 60s on the weekend. The only player to do that. I don't think he's kicking himself at all on Sunday night. But Terrell Hatton, this was his first time in deep contention in a major championship. He feels like he was wrong with some bad luck. But I think this one is going to hurt the most for him.

You've been making fun of me all week long because I've been battling a cold, which is why I keep putting myself on mute because no one wants to hear me cough. However, had I not been battling a cold and had it not been raining all day, I would have gone out and actually walked all 18 holes with Hatton only because that was going to be such a show.

And there is no better show in golf than walking along with Terrell Hatton, whether if he's in contention or not. But especially when he's in contention on this particular golf course. And he said it again this week, and I think he's probably echoed this before at the U.S. Open. The U.S. Open drives people crazy. The things you just brought up.

the things that Justin Thomas told you. It drives everybody so crazy that it brings everybody down to his level. Essentially, it drags everybody into the mud, both metaphorically and literally this week because there was a lot of mud out there. However, he would have been so entertaining to watch one way or the other. Either he was going to lose his mind and start breaking clubs. He actually kept it cool. If...

If you watch him, there was no tantrums. He wasn't throwing a fit. You know, obviously he gets frustrated. He's talking to himself and he's frustrating. You're going with frustrated. Yeah. Like considering some of the meltdowns that we've seen from Terrell Hatton, I thought this showed like a level of maturity and on course comportment that we typically had not seen from him. And I think consequently, we saw him with a realistic shot to win this major championship.

And it was – there is some irony there because I actually –

scurried up to the scrum area on Saturday afternoon. Cause he played well on Saturday, kind of put himself what I thought was roughly in contention. And he's always entertaining, whether he's on the course or off the course. And the only negative thing he had to say about the course on Saturday was the thing that probably cost him the championship. He didn't like how thick the rough was in the face of the bunkers. He felt like the bunkers were penal enough. If you get caught in that face, maybe that was a little too, maybe that was some foreshadowing a little bit based on what ended up happening. But yeah,

But he's so entertaining. But for, I don't know, I want to give it a full hour or two. The idea that he could actually win the U.S. Open was wildly entertaining to me. Because as you look down the leaderboard, if we're being objective and we're being honest, it probably wasn't the sexiest leaderboard you and I probably could have come up with.

I don't think either one of us were batting around those names that ended up on the final leaderboard on Wednesday's podcast. We're previewing it and trying to figure out who we could watch, who we couldn't watch. However, it did bring an element of a lot of different things. I think JJ spawn and you're right. Probably journeyman isn't quite fair, but he is a fascinating case study and how difficult it is mentally to play this game at that level, particularly on a golf course like that. You have Terrell Hatton who, uh,

Look, he's a head case, man. And he's on a golf course that makes everybody head cases. And that was only going to be entertaining. The Adam Scott element to this, when you sort of break it down, he never seemed to have any rhythm on Sunday from the start. That was probably the most disappointing thing to me. And then we've touched on Sam Burns.

I mean, there's countless players. You could single out Terrell Hatton as the one who's stinging the most, but I'll go back to Adam Scott on the 11th hole. He was still right in the mix of a golf tournament. He caught essentially like a water flyer. He only had 130 yards.

A short shot into 11 catches a water flyer flies at 20 yards too long into the hay actually does well to make bogey ends up shooting 79. Like that was sort of his derailment. You look at Sam Burns waterlogged shots as well on 11 on 15. He was clearly miffed.

not getting the ruling when it was pretty obvious that that was a saturated spot. He was at the low point of the fairway. That's where all the water is rushing onto. He was not,

Um, you know, I don't think he was rude. Uh, he wasn't disrespectful. He wasn't animated. He just said, I'd like a second opinion about this. And afterward he, he didn't blame anyone that we said sort of, it is what it is. It's up to the rules officials, not up to me. And they clearly decided that it wasn't, but those two shots in particular, 11 and 15, both leading to double bogeys, uh,

Those were shots that cost him the golf tournament. They cost him momentum. They certainly cost him shots on the leaderboard. They cost him, I think, confidence. They made him sort of doubt what he was going to be doing, particularly when he was in those great positions, looking like he was going to attack. Having a little bit of moisture, a little bit of water between the ball and the club face made what was already an incredibly difficult golf course possible.

even more so just because of the conditions. And I wouldn't say it's a little bit of water. I think there was a lot of water. I, and you touched on Victor Hovland. It was such a fascinating week to me because he has been through this, go back to Tampa when he won the bounce bar championship, you would have thought we have heard nothing but gushing things about his swing and turning the corner and being in a good spot. And that's the opposite.

but we heard at Valspar. What we saw this week, I think certainly sets the stage for, I mentioned J.J. Spahn as a Ryder Cup captain. If you're Luke Donald, you're probably very encouraged what you ended up seeing from Victor Hovland because he was going to be the missing part of that team if he didn't turn it around starting in Tampa. And then Carlos Ortiz.

He was another player that had really never done anything in a major championship. And he showed a lot of grit hanging around until the very end. So I think there were a lot of different elements of players trying to prove to themselves that they had what it took. And I kept coming back to the idea as we got closer and closer down the stretch, and it looked as if no one wanted to win it. I kept going back to the Phil Mickelson line.

That someone's just going to have to hit a heroic shot and pull something off and actually win this. Like no one's going to just spit it up and give it to you. And that's exactly what JJ spawn did. I mean, JJ spawn told a good story in his press conference on Sunday. He was having a lunch recently and,

With Max Homa, who was relaying a conversation that he had with Tiger Woods. And he said, Tiger Woods told Max, you know, at U.S. Open. A fourth-hand conversation. It really was. But you don't really have to do anything special. When it comes to U.S. Opens, just hang around. Two, three, four shots. Just make your pars. Be as steady and even-keeled as you can. Let the field come back to you. That turned out to be very sage advice because that's exactly what

What happened with JJ spawn? He had a 1% win probability, according to our friends at data golf with 11 holes to play JJ spawn, 100% winner. And it came down to it, but you're, I mean, you're exactly right with the number of players. Carlos and T's doubling 15. Victor Hava made just 34 feet of putts in the final round. You can even make an argument Rex, like Scotty Scheffler had a chance.

to win this golf tournament on Sunday with a couple of putts. Had that got a little bit differently. I think, and I believe both of us said he had no chance whatsoever on Saturday night. Yes. I even said that as much on Sunday morning. I said he needed like a Johnny Miller ask around, if not a little bit better, plus a lot of help. He got a lot of help. He didn't have the Johnny Miller asked round on Sunday. Couldn't find the fairway in 1848th.

Off the tee for the week, very unscottish Shuffler-esque, in addition to 10 misses inside 10 feet. The sausage finger was up. The floor is yours. I think you just threw out a good stat on Victor Hodlin. He had 53 feet of butts, is what you said, for the entire day? 34. Yeah, okay. So on two holes, two holes alone, the 12th and the 14th hole, J.J. Spahn had 62 feet of butts.

So that's how you win open championships. And that's not counting what he did on 18, which was ridiculous. A bit of a walk off, a bit of a cherry on top, but it's that those by definition are what Phil Mickelson would call that heroic shot. The heroic shot, most certainly 401 feet worth of putts for JJ spawn for the week.

I don't care really what you do with your ball striking. If you make 400 feet worth of putts, you're most likely going to win. We're going to be transitioning quite significantly. The travelers championship this week. There is nothing.

remotely similar between Oakmont and TBC River Highlands, other than that is now a stop on the PGA Tour schedule. Coverage, the Travelers Championship, I know you'll be there, Rex, begins on Thursday on Golf Channel. More of this podcast, recap edition of the U.S. Open, coming up after this short break.

All right, Rex, it's time for Love It or Laugh It. If you're new here, you can either like an idea or, you know, you hate it. You laugh it. Pretty simple rules. Thanks for following along. Let's start with the U.S. Open venue in Oakmont. Do you think that Oakmont Country Club, which has hosted more U.S. Opens than any other venue, was a good U.S. Open test in 2025? Yes or no?

Love it. And I know you're going to turn this on me because some comments I made earlier in the week about the golf course itself as it applies to American golf and what it means to Oakmont residents still pissed at you. Yes. Yes. So I'm going to go ahead and back off that one. I had a lot of friends who remembers. I actually one of my best friends is from Pittsburgh and this place is the Mecca for him. So I'm having to back off that take a little bit. Yes.

However, I also have to get out of Pittsburgh. So I need to get to the airport tomorrow. I don't want to make anyone else angry. Rioters, picketers of the street.

I love it. You guys are a great sports town. You make fantastic sandwiches. Just stop. No, I think as a U.S. Open venue, it's fantastic. Just look at what we had on Sunday. Just look at how that all unfolded. And it was a really bad week weather-wise. I just rode the elevator up to my room. Mike Wan, the CEO of the USG, was on the elevator. And we were joking back and forth that we could have been here until Wednesday.

day. If things didn't go well, if the golf course didn't drain, if the players just weren't willing to keep on playing and what was brutal conditions, the golf course held up and it proved why it needs to be one of that, the anchor sites, because it's, it tests the game's best and,

I don't know about you. I didn't hear one player complaining. I mean, there were certain things that players probably didn't like. There were certain things about their games that didn't seem to match up well with this golf course. But when the winning score is one under par and the last time the winning score was over par at this championship was 2018 with Brooks Koepka. When you get a winning score that is that close to par and players aren't upset about it, I think that means it's a worthy venue.

Not a single player that I heard actually criticized the setup, criticized the golf course as unfair. They said it was incredibly difficult. They said it was the most difficult golf course they've ever played.

they said it's a golf course they can't wait to not come back to for now like eight or nine years. Like those, those are all things that players are saying, but yes, I'm loving it. This was a stout us open venue. And I love the fact that this was a driving test because that is one aspect of the game that I think has really been marginalized in recent years because of technology, because of golf course setup, you,

You know, the bomb and gouge aspect has really been emphasized and prioritized and certainly rewarded. When you look at some of the best players in the world, you could not do that around this venue. You look, I think the 18th hole in particular, like it was, it was a binary outcome.

You're either going to hit the fairway and have a chance to make par, or if you blow it in the right rough, which so many players did because they wanted to avoid the bunkers on the left, it is essentially a one-shot penalty. I love that.

I love the fact that you had to stand up on the tee knowing you have to put the ball in the fairway. You and I did a bunch of live from hits throughout the tournament, and I said Victor Hovland was the most compelling player to me because he was a player who was clearly struggling with his driving, and yet he had to stand up there, and you couldn't quite guide it. He couldn't just like bunt it out there 275 because there's still some heft there.

this golf course, particularly when it played a little bit softer than the USGA would have wanted. But he had to stand up there and hit it between two really scary, treacherous sides, whether it was rough on the left or rough on the right. I love a stout driving test, and that's what Oakmont certainly was. However...

If conditions had been firm and fast, I think this place could have been an absolute torture chamber. If all of a sudden, because of the Cambered fairways, it was too hard to hold them. And all of a sudden good shots are being punished. All of a sudden you couldn't hold the greens, which are the most fearsome and ferocious. I think I've ever seen in person. The bunkers are so deep. I'm not sure if TV could really do them justice. They might as well have been pot bunkers like you see in the UK. Like I think,

Had the conditions been more favorable in that respect, the golf course could have gotten away from him and I think you would have seen a potential massacre, but it didn't. Credit to the USGA for setting up a very fair golf course.

You're right. If it was firm and fast, if the winds came up and you had all of those other things that we talked about with the depth of the rough, and the bunkers are the interesting thing to me. They were almost like pop bunkers that we end up with over at the Open Championship where you could not get it to the green more times than not from the bunkers. You don't have that in American golf very much. You combine that with firm conditions where the greens are running 15, 15 and a half.

On the step meter, you had fairways that were running out. You're right. It could have gotten over the edge really quick.

All right. Second topic is Roy McIlroy for the first time in seven major championship rounds on Saturday at Oakmont. He broke what was, I guess you could call a media boycott of sorts. Actually talked again after the final rounds. We spun ahead to Royal Port Rush, a home game for him in the Open Championship. Rex, are you loving or laughing Roy's explanation for why he was not talking to the media for those six consecutive rounds?

I'm laughing it. And I've been really clear about this. He has no obligation to the media. Colin Morikawa had no obligation to the media. This isn't about what we feel like we are owed as media members because we're not owed anything. However, I would argue that this tournament and the sponsors and the fans are owed something. And we're the conduit to that. Whether if Rory McIlroy or any of the other players like it or not, we're the ones that are telling the story. We're the ones that are trying to give some sort of insight on what JJ spawn was thinking coming down the stretch. And we,

I think you and I both try to do it as well as we possibly can. And when Rory is like this, where I think the comment that probably threw everyone over the top is he's entitled to do whatever he wants to do was essentially, and I'm paraphrasing, but that's what he said when he was asked, do you think you've earned the right not to speak to the media?

That felt a lot like Colin Morikawa following Bay Hill, where the words that were coming out of his mouth weren't incorrect. It's just there was probably a little bit more attitude to them than what you needed. There was probably a little bit more tone to them than what you needed. You could have said it in a much softer way. And I continue to struggle with the idea that this is all about how the story about his driver at the PGA Championship that was deemed nonconforming and the way that story was broken by Sirius XM Radio.

He seems to have a problem with that. But I continue to struggle with the idea that he is that sideways with this particular story. And I point to constantly Scotty Scheffler's driver was also deemed nonconforming the same week. And when he was asked about it on Sunday following his victory, his explanation sort of shut everyone down.

He was very clear about this happens all the time. I've been using that driver for a year. We kind of anticipated it was going to happen and we had a backup in place. No one had a follow-up question to that. And had Rory just handled it the exact same way, we wouldn't have ended up this way. So I think he is disappointed with the way the story was handled. I think it's disappointing with the way he handled not addressing the issue when it happened. Okay. This is going to sound like a cop-out, but I'm both loving it

And I'm laughing at that. No, I don't think you understand the rules of this game. You can't do that. It's my game. It's my name. I can do exactly what I want in this little game. Here's the reason why you've earned the right to do what you want. I'm at least. Yes, I'm at least partially loving what he said, because it's clear that Rory is over this whole thing.

gestures, hands widely whole thing, like the performative aspects of competing and playing 18 holes and then discussing it afterward. And keep in mind for those six competitive rounds, he'd not played particularly well.

And so did he just not feel like doing it because he was just sort of playing meh and he was going to stand in front of a microphone and, and utter similar things. Like he was just sort of over that sort of aspect. He says, he's not trying to prove a point. You know, this isn't like trying to force the PJ tour or major organizations into, into mandating, you know, media obligations for players. He says, yeah, although he's still miffed at what went down,

with the driver testing leak. That's really only partially it. It's he's just more over the whole thing. And because the regular, because the regulations are this way, he's free to do it. Is that disappointing as a golf observer, as a golf reporter, as a golf fan? Yes. You know, Rory is one of the best explainers in the game, an emotional player who clearly resonates with the audience and not hearing from him. I feel like we're worse off as a,

as golf observers trying to understand him, particularly at this point in time and at this point in his career. But is it understandable? And that's the reason why I'm partially loving it. Yes, it is understandable because if he is lacking purpose, if he is lacking some motivation right now, as he admitted again on Sunday, the last things he wants to do then is

is go through these sort of perfunctory aspects of the job. Totally get it. And that aspect, I do love it. Where I think, well, where I know that I'm laughing at is the quote, I feel like I've earned the right to do whatever I want to do.

That just seems like a bad strategy and a bad mindset. Here's a guy who just authored one of the most emotionally stirring in charge victories in recent memory, certainly since Tiger in 2019. And now he's throwing clubs and he's smashing T markers and he's being curt in public appearances and essentially saying that he doesn't owe anyone anything. Entitlement is really unappealing.

And for a player who has been bestowed a lot of incredible gifts and who is fabulously wealthy and who I think by and large has been treated very well by the golfing press over the past two decades, that attitude turned off a lot of folks. And for that, I'm laughing that aspect of the Roy McRoy explanation.

And I understand the questions he has reached the mountaintop. And maybe he's looking around trying to figure out where do I go? I think the line he used today is I got to Everest. Now I need to figure out how to get back down and do it in a way that you maintain some sort of competitive integrity. You maintain some sort of desire to keep moving forward. And certainly you look ahead to the Open Championship at Royal Port Rush. That's going to come with his own element of excitement because it's a home game for him.

I understand where that's coming from. You probably don't want to continue to get in front of people like you and I and answer the same questions time and time again. However, I would also argue that's kind of part of being a professional. Again, I'm going to circle back around and say they don't owe the media anything. I'm not that person. I don't stand here with my notebook and demand that you answer my stupid questions because I know that you shouldn't. This was the seventh round. I'm sorry. He went six consecutive rounds and made your championship.

without speaking with the media, turning down requests for interviews. And my career, and I went over this in my head, I couldn't come up with six instances when Tiger Woods did the same thing. I could only come up with three or four. And they were usually after like the first round loss at the match play or something like that. And even then, he would stop in the locker room and talk. And he was asked more often than not,

Questions that he probably didn't want to answer and he was uncomfortable with. And very rarely did he actually answer them. However, he was professional enough to get in front of a microphone and do what you do because that's your job. If anyone had earned the right to do whatever it is that he wanted to do, it would be Tiger Woods. And yet he understood the responsibilities that come with being a professional athlete. He understood the responsibilities that came with being the face of the PGA Tour. Maybe Rory doesn't want that position anymore.

But unfortunately, that is the position that he finds himself in. It just seems like a really bizarre strategy to almost intentionally or purposely squander so much of the goodwill that has been built up, not just since the Masters victory.

but in the years prior to that, right? Final love it or laugh it. Adam Scott would played his way into the final group at the U S open a miserable round of 79. We had this debate, but we didn't really get into it. Is Adam Scott a hall of famer right now, even if he does not win another golf tournament, he turns 45 next month.

Yes, he is. I love it. And I tried to make that argument on Saturday night and you clearly had no interest whatsoever on, on having that debate on Saturday night of a major championship. That,

That probably wasn't the time and place for it. He has 14 PGA Tour victories. He has a major at the Masters and a Players' Championship. And I would argue everything he has done for the International Presidents' Cup team. And you can argue that's probably pretty marginal considering... Hasn't been very successful. Colin Montgomery got into the Hall of Fame because he was a wildly successful...

as a radical player, I would counter that and say what he means, what Adam means to the international team, the PGA tour, which sort of de facto the hall of fame should consider by comparison. And I made this comparison and you dismissed it. Freddie couples is in the hall of fame with exactly one more PGA tour victory and essentially the exact same resume. And I think your argument was, well, that's debatable. It,

It's not because he is in the hall of fame. So there is no debating that Freddie shrinking standards. Come on. And if that's the standard, then I don't think we can have the debate anymore. We're like, once we can sit here and go, I think the baseball hall of fame is always the best comparison here. Like there is always thresholds. When you're talking about certain players, you have X number of home runs. You have X number of runs batted in you, you played for X number of years. You were an all-star this many times. And if that's the case,

then you're either a first or second ballot Hall of Famer, or maybe you're marginal. Maybe you're the guy that gets batted back and forth. In this particular case, based on those numbers I just gave you, Adam Scott is in the Hall of Fame. Okay. I'm laughing this, but only because Adam Scott is...

Would be laughing this. Of course he would. What's he supposed to say? Stand up on Saturday night at the U S open and say, yes, put me in the hall of fame. I'm going to use Adam Scott's own words against him. This came in 2023 where he literally said, I might be voting myself out of this by saying it, but I feel like if I'd won another major championship, and if I do, then maybe I could put myself in the hall of fame. You look at his resume. Like it's pretty stout.

30 some odd wins internationally, 14 times in the PGA tour. He's won a masters. He's one of players. He's reached world. Number one. It's in a lot of great things. As you mentioned for the international press cup team, if not a whole lot of victories, what I think is going to be the challenge for him is you could essentially lump Adam Scott, Justin Rose and Sergio Garcia all in the same category. And all of those players, I believe were born within nine months of,

of each other. And you could have a pretty reasonable debate about which player should get in first.

Among that group, Sergio Garcia won a masters and he's been one of the best radical players ever. Justin Rose won a U S open. He also won an Olympic gold medal. The first gold medal that they played in about a hundred years. Does that sort of equal to a player's championship? If Adam Scott won, Justin Rose got to world number one, Sergio Garcia didn't get to number one. I think eventually all three of those players will probably get in. But again, the reason why we even talked about to begin with is

was Sunday at the U.S. Open, I don't think any player had as much weight attached to him as Adam Scott did. It was a hugely significant moment for him as he sat there trying to get that second major championship. Adam Scott himself said as much. He called it a career exclamation point. If he could get across the line, it would help him fulfill his own self. But using Adam Scott's own words as his justification, he said,

I'm laughing the idea as a lock for the Hall of Fame.

I'm not sure what you're doing with Sergio and Justin in this conversation, because I will go back to Freddie Couples, who was voted into the Hall of Fame before Davis Love III, who Davis Love III had a better resume, objectively. They're the exact same age, pretty much. Davis Love III had a major PGA championship, had two players championships and 21 PGA Tour victories and everything else that he did along the way as far as President's Cup captain. It's not a should conversation. It's a.

It's not a will. You were saying who goes in first. It doesn't really matter. That's not the conversation we're having. The conversation that we're having is should Adam Scott go in the Hall of Fame? And yes, I'm loving that.

According to Adam Scott, he would probably be laughing it. But who knows the way that he's playing right now? I think it was a huge step. I know he had disappointing Sunday. I know he's probably hurting a little bit on Sunday night. However, this was sort of the point in the 2024 season when Adam Scott got a little bit of heater as well. Would not surprise if he made a run at Royal Portrush.

As a reminder, we actually do this podcast twice a week, only once on linear television. Rex and I will be back on Wednesday for a preview edition of the PGA Tours Travelers Championship, as well as any other news that drops over the next couple of days, available wherever you get your podcasts, in addition to the Golf Channel's YouTube page. Final thoughts from the 125th U.S. Open coming up after this short break.

All right, Rex, final thoughts time from the 125th U.S. Open. It's been a great week for both you and I. What will you sort of take away from your experience covering the Open at Oakmont?

I don't think it's the finish that any of us expected, but it's probably the finish we all deserve because it's not the leaderboard that you would have looked at at the beginning of the week. If I had laid this one in front of you on Tuesday, you would have probably thrown it back in my face. However, when it actually played out on Sunday and all the drama and all of the elements and the golf course and,

and the punching in the mouth and all of the things that we've addressed, I think it was so entertaining because it was so different. This wasn't Scottie being Scottie at the masters. This isn't at the PGA championship against Scottie being Scottie at the PGA championship or Rory or anything else that went into it. This was players, other players that had an opportunity,

to go on the stage and see if they could shine. And most of them did not, which I think is kind of interesting to me. It's sort of golf in its purest form when you have players stepping up, trying to do what they need to do at the highest level, and only one of them was able to prevail, and that was J.J. Spahn.

I try to keep my finger on the pulse, get texts from my buddies. I try and go into the comments section, even though it's a bit of a war zone at times. You're a man of the people. I try to understand what people are saying. And I think a lot of people may have been turned off by this U.S. Open. They thought it was boring. They thought it was a slog. Maybe the golf course was a little bit too hard. They didn't just want people grabbing a 60-degree wedge and hacking it down the fairway. I loved it. And here's why I loved it.

The Masters is all about pageantry. It's about shot making. It's about joining the most elite club in golf. The PGA Championship is a stout test. It's the deepest field in golf. It's supposed to be a complete examination. The Open Championship is

is about creativity and the conditions and battling something that you don't see all year long. The U.S. Open is supposed to be a war of attrition. It's supposed to be brutal. It's supposed to be taxing. It's supposed to put you through mental and physical anguish. That is exactly what we saw at Oakmont. It was big. It was brawny. It required strength. It required size, even if the player who won

This U.S. Open is small in stature. He showed a lot of grit. He showed a lot of perseverance, not just Sunday, not just throughout the course of the week, but his entire career. He, J.J. Spahn, embodies the entire U.S. Open essence and its ethos, and that's why I think he was a deserving champion. Three majors down, Rex. One more to go. A couple more weeks until the Open Championship at Royal Portrush. What has your attention if you look ahead to the year's final major?

First and foremost, the major championship season has gone so fast. It seems like we just showed up at the Masters getting ready for what was going to be a magical season. And now all of a sudden we're getting ready for Port Rush and it seems it's going to be here before we know it. I'm looking forward to Port Rush probably more so than any other venue. And I've been clear about this in the past because St. Andrews, that's the cathedral in my mind. Again, John Bodenheimer, no disrespect there.

but that's where you go to hold major championship. That was the purpose built city to host a major championship, but rural Port Rush, when it was pulled back in to the rotation back in 2019, it was just a magical touch. I mean, everything was perfect. The golf course was perfect. The city was perfect. Everything about the championship that went off with Shane Lowry winning the emotion that Rory McIlroy showed going on to missing the cut and sort of, uh,

you saw him just cut the vein open and you got an idea that, that that's the things we miss when we talk about, we really wish Roy McIlroy would speak with the media a little bit more often. That's why, because you remember what the emotion was like when he missed the cut there and what it meant to him to do that. And he didn't expect that. He talked about a little bit today. That championship is so different than the others. You just touched on it. You did a really good job of explaining the U S open. And,

And the USGA's idea is we want to identify the best player, not embarrass them. When you go to the Open Championship, this is all about you against the elements. And to a certain degree, the golf course, but it's going to be the elements. And that's what I look forward to the most. RIP to Glory's last shot. And yet the Open Championship still remains the opportunity for these players to salvage what maybe was a disappointing major championship season, whether it was Xander Schauffele or Ludwig Oberg.

or Justin Thomas, or Bryson DeChambeau, Victor Hovland. All of these players now have one final opportunity. You know they're going to want it. It's going to be great to watch just as the 125th U.S. Open was as well. Thanks for following along all week. We certainly loved another week doing mini pods for you. Thanks for reading. Thanks for listening. You guys know the drill. NBCSports.com slash golf for all latest news, notes, and updates. Rex and I will be back on Wednesday night.

Thanks for listening. Thanks for the support. Talk to you guys in a couple of days. If your small business is booming, you might say, but you should say, and we'll help your growing business. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. Indeed's sponsored jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With sponsored jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates, so you can reach the people you want faster.

According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash NBC Sports. Just go to Indeed.com slash NBC Sports right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.

Indeed.com slash NBC Sports. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring. Indeed is all you need.