How the Showdown matchup highlighted TGL's greatest challenge
50:11 Share

Hell's gates are open. Get ready to save humanity in Diablo 4, Vessel of Hatred. Continue the saga and carve your own path through Sanctuary's cursed lands with massive updates to character progression, difficulties, and loot systems for powerful demon-slaying action. Unleash fierce skills as you embark on an immersive campaign, tackle new co-op dungeons, and team up with allies using the new Party Finder.

Hell awaits you. Save 35% off Diablo 4 and Vessel of Hatred today in the Diablo 4 expansion bundle. Rated M for Mature.

Are you still quoting 30-year-old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now. It pays to discover. Learn more at discover.com slash credit card based on the February 2024 Nelson report.

Hello and welcome to this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lab. We have a very jam-packed edition for you on this Wednesday, December 18th. Rex is down in South Florida for TGL Media Day, as evidenced by his signage behind him. We've also had some news on the Ryder Cup front and the PG Tour C-Suite level. But first, we have to start with the showdown, which aired on Tuesday night, live from Las Vegas.

How'd you find the action, Rex?

Well, the good and the bad. The good was actually the golf. Like I thought Rory played some of the best golf of the season. It seemed like at least in the first four holes. I mean, he wasn't going to beat everybody by his own self. So that part impressed me. I think that it was fun to watch primetime golf. I do like these particular matches. Then the bad. And you know, anyone who listens to the pod knows that I do not criticize other people when it comes to TV because I don't want people criticizing me. And trust me, there's plenty to criticize.

criticize me when it comes to TV. The part that got me is you had a desk that was four wide. And to be perfectly clear on this one, I'm a huge fan of Charles Barkley. Obviously, David Faraday is a former colleague of ours. You and I both have a lot of respect for him. And then Trevor Emelman has turned himself into probably the best analyst in the game, in my opinion, when it comes to live tournament golf. Brian Anderson, who was the guy in the middle,

who sort of stepped in at the last minute to host that event. Used to work for Golf Channel. It was before your time. And he was brilliant. I mean, there was people at Golf Channel who were heartbroken when he left. He is now the voice of the Milwaukee Brewers. He does a lot of postseason baseball for Major League Baseball. He does some tournament coverage for TNT. Like he's very, very good. Everybody on that desk is very good and people I respected.

But this is a great example. And as you pointed out, I am at TGL Media Day. So to spin it forward, it is a new dynamic that I think everyone's going to have to sort of learn, get up to speed in real time. Because what happened last night aggravated me because the only people I was interested in hearing were the players.

And it seemed like every time someone would start talking, Brooks or Rory or Bryson or Scotty, every time one of them was trying to make a point, Charles Barkley would come barreling in, making a joke or calling someone fat or just being maximum Charles Barkley, which we all appreciate it.

Like I, I love Charles as much as the next guy, but the art of laying out is going to be so much more important when it comes to not just these matches, but TGL where you have announcers who are going to be on the ground. I don't really care what the announcers say. People don't care what you and I have to say. They want to hear what the players say. And I just didn't get enough of that. Yeah. I mean, I would have been more than happy to just have like a host and Brian Anderson who was setting up shots and then letting the player audio be

standalone you know Rory and Scotty talking creatine routines even if Brooks and Bryson are just like simmering that was disgusting looking just absolutely miserably uh in the card as they racked up whole losses like I was more than fine of just having that which again uh we'll get into this with TGL that's sort of the setup there you know first of all when you zoom out on the match like

The result means absolutely nothing. It was not a referendum on anything. Yes, the PGA Tour was being petty when it put out for the very first time on Tuesday morning that, yes, Rory McIlroy and Sky Shelf are playing. They didn't even mention who their opponents were. Like, that's not productive in any sense. You know, I think clearly it was helpful. You mentioned Rory's play. It was clearly helpful that Rory McIlroy has played competitive golf all fall.

And that's got a shuffler was coming off a six shot win in the Bahamas. And he had a few typically spectacular shots. Like you could tell that Brooks and Bryson were rusty. It had not played tournament golf for a couple of months. Like if you're just looking at from a competitive standpoint, I think that was pretty clear.

It's hard to take away anything tangible from the competition because the windchill in a Vegas December was in the 40s. They're playing at night. Bryson's got the big offensive lineman's jacket that's keeping him warm in between shots. Some of them, this is the very first time they're playing in the dark. I don't read too much into that. To me, Rex, the big takeaway of this was the seriousness of

Of the match. And that for the first time. It actually felt like a legit competition. It was super golfy.

As opposed to getting bogged down in some of the gimmicks that we've seen over. I think this was like the seventh or eighth iteration that they've done for this. And I think that was the right move. Like the matchup alone of two PGA tour stars versus two live golf stars was compelling enough alone that for me, you could get away with some of the more subdued personalities. You didn't need to have a Phil Mickelson yucking it up. You didn't need to have a Tom Brady and a Peyton Manning, you know, exchanging barbs that they would have,

you know, had during their, during their playing days, where this thing has gotten in trouble in the past to me is when they're forcing players to

to be more than themselves and to be entertainers too, something that does not come naturally to them. That's where you can get into some of the cringy moments. That's where you can get into some of the forced banter that just doesn't feel right. And so I actually liked the showdown more than I've liked any of these matches. And I know the criticism was that it was boring. There wasn't much banter. Even the teammates didn't seem necessarily close enough.

or, you know, like very chummy together. That's fine. Like this was a legit two on two competition between four of the most compelling people in golf. And I really enjoyed the four hour show. And to your point, I thought the competition was very good. I loved the format, actually six, six and six, the way they did it. Yeah.

Yeah, no, I think it was funny being here at TGL talking with some folks on the ground about that format versus what they're going to do here. There are some distinctions to make. I will say I wanted more banter between the teams. I don't need more banter between teammates. I've heard Brooks making fun of Bryson now for the better part of five years. I didn't need to hear him making fun of him. Like I've already heard enough of that. You guys are on the same team. Let's turn the barbs back in the other direction. It seems like the best lines were used up.

in the buildup to what this event was last night when they were on the range, where Rory says something to Bryson about, I've got something that, you know, I've got a score to settle from the U.S. Open, and Bryson being like, in my defense, you lost the U.S. Open, more so than I won it, let's be honest. And so I wanted to hear more of that. You're right. Like, I don't need the gimmicks. I will say, and again, this sort of probably segues perfectly into the conversation on TGL,

I don't think this is necessarily for us. Let's be honest. You and I are very passionate golf fans. We're going to watch things with a very discerning eye. And if it's not authentic, you and I are going to call it out immediately. And we're probably going to turn it off and move on to something else that I don't think this would happen last night with that match. I don't think what's going to happen with TGL is necessarily for us. It's people who are kind of just passing in the night and may or may not have an interest in golf. And, oh, here's something I can digest and get done within two hours. Let's give this a shot.

Could be, but I do think like the natural extension of what you saw of a two-on-two match between two PGA Tour players and two live players is, wow, we can expand this to four-on-four. We can expand this to six-on-six. We could have a full-fledged PGA Tour versus live golf match, 12-on-12, just like the Ryder Cup with the U.S. and Europeans, just like the President's Cup with U.S. and internationals. To that point, though, Rex...

I couldn't help but feel like they missed the window a little bit, like they missed the window of opportunity, that the tension between these four players would have been far greater a year or two ago.

where Rory legitimately has hard feelings against some of the players who defected for live or Bryson DeChambeau was suing the PGA tour or Brooks Koepka was still sort of dangling the, Oh, I won five majors. You won four majors over Rory McRoy's head and Scotty Scheffler. Oh, your, your accomplishments don't mean as much because some of the good players have, have defected for live. Like I think some of the animosity, uh,

has died down a little bit. And I think it cost the showdown a little bit of competitive tension and competitive drama where a year or two ago, it would have been incredibly heightened and absolute must see TV as opposed to this being, Oh, this was a, this was a nice exhibition to show golf fans, but we've been missing over the past couple of years with this fractured landscape. I think you may have spent too much time on social media last night. Yeah.

Do you feel like it? Can you own it? Can you feel yourself sort of venting because you read too much, you watch too much? That's legitimately how I feel. And again, I enjoyed this iteration much more than I did the other ones. I enjoyed the fact that it was golfier and less gimmicky. It felt legitimately like, here are four best players in the world, two on each side. Let's see how they stack up during this mid-December exhibition. That's generally how I feel. However, it would have been...

More tense, more dramatic a year or two ago to the point where now with both sides sort of escalating towards a potential deal being done with the PIF. Like would a PGA Tour versus live 12-on-12 Ryder Cup style battle hold the same – would that carry the same punch that it would have a year or two ago? I would argue no.

I don't disagree with you. And maybe that's where I think they could have had fun last night and they chose not to. They chose to ignore the elephant in the room, which is you guys are on one side and these two are on the other side. And let's have some sort of fun with it. And they chose not to. I guess maybe it's too soon. The seriousness of it all. They don't feel like they can make a joke of it yet. But I will say, having just a little bit of insight on this, they couldn't have done it.

a year ago, a year and a half ago. I mean, they barely got it done this time around. Trust me when I say convincing. They had to convince the PGA tour and like, look, my understanding of the convincing was, well, we're going to do this so you guys can decide how you want to handle it is how the conversation went down according to the sources I have because the tour pushed back immediately and said, no, we won't be doing that.

And keep in mind, the tour also got paid last night. Like every time one of these matches or one of these exhibitions happens, the tour gets some sort of fee, right? It's usually for something like this in the million dollar range. So it's not as though the tour was left wanting last night. They got their piece of the pie just like they always do. I don't think they could have done this. Even Rory and Scotty being the two on the tour side, I don't think there was enough money

of a movement towards some middle ground in professional golf two years ago or a year and a half ago to pull this off. I mean, that's certainly fair. I think it's just the heightened tension between the two sides is not as high right now. And I think that's just natural. And I think it will continue to be reduced in the future. Speaking of Team Golf Rex...

You've been in South Florida now for 24 hours. You've been talking to people inside SoFi Stadium, the arena there in South Florida, which, again, will be launching the first week of January with TGL, the new simulator league. What are your impressions of media day? What's been going on?

I was talking with our friend Chris Reimer, who does media for TGL, and he asked me what I thought when we walked in the arena. And they kind of held sort of an exhibition match. Wyndham Clark is here, Ricky Fowler, Billy Horschel, and they sort of ran the media who's on site sort of

just how this is going to work. This is how the matches are going to feel. This is the scoring. This is sort of what we expect from the banter from the players. And I told Chris, it has almost an Augusta feel to it that everything felt bigger than I thought it was going to be. When they say that the actual playing area is about the size of a football field, it's 97 yards. In your mind, in my mind, you're like, oh, it's a short par three. But once you get inside and you see it and you realize that, oh, this is really cool. Football fields are huge. Yeah.

Yes, yes. And then once you start realizing that the shots coming off the driver as you as you know, they're teeing off in the hitting area, you see them for a good 70 yards before they sort of disappear into the screen. And then the virtual sort of game takes over at that point. So you get an idea. Oh, Ricky was cutting that shot. And then once it shows up on the screen, all the technology.

It's just as good as advertised. They're hitting off of real grass. They're hitting out of real grass rough. They're hitting out of real sand. The way the green complex rotates, how they can change it, like all of it is very, very cool, like all of the things that we expected. But it goes back to the conversation that you and I would just have it. And this is going to be – you and I will be down here in a few weeks for that opening match, and I'm sure we'll have a lot of thoughts after the fact.

I'm going to have to see more than what I saw last night. I'm going to have to hear more than what I heard last night because I'm not tuning in to see the same golf product, even condensed into a two-hour window with all of the technology and bells and whistles. I need to see these players understanding that you're the performers now. You're on stage. Make me laugh. Someone, Rex, who always has something to say that, of course, is Billy Horschel, an eight-time PG Tour winner.

and member of the Atlanta Drive. We're pleased to welcome him now to the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lav. All right, Billy, thanks so much for joining us. First of all, how surreal is it for you to be part of a simulator golf league that's co-founded by one of your boyhood idols in Tiger Woods? That's got to be pretty cool. Yeah, listen, I mean, anything to be associated with Tiger...

is an amazing thing. Listen, I grew up looking, you know, looking up to him and trying to, you know, emulate some of the things he did and the way he went about playing the game of golf. So yeah, listen, Tiger is a standard in the game of golf nowadays. But to be associated with them and be a part, you know, of this,

New high-tech league that we have. I could never imagine growing up as a kid, you know, that I was going to be involved in something that makes you feel like you're part of the, you're an Atlanta Falcons player running out into the stadium at Mercedes-Benz Stadium right about to play. And that's what I, that's what I associated with, associated with when I was down here a couple weeks ago for the first time.

and looking at it and feeling and seeing the five-story screen and the video boards, your name going around and the music playing, the lights and everything. I'm like, man, I feel like I'm a professional athlete, whether it be in NFL, you know, MLB, hockey, basketball. We're running out into this arena and I'm going to play in this, you know, arena, the stadium style atmosphere. Could never imagine that, you know, golf was going to take me here.

Now, I watched you walk out to your walk-up song. You really leaned into it, as I would expect you to do. You seem to understand exactly what it's going to take to make this product work. I think the line that I use is, if he had 24 Billy Horschels, then yes, it would be entertaining, because you understand that you go out and play good golf, but you also need to be out on stage. You need to be entertaining the fans. Do you think the other players, and again, I'm not talking about you, but do you think all 24 understand that?

I think they do. Obviously, it's been related to us, whether, you know, for me, I knew right away what needed to be done for, you know, for most players to be successful. And, you know, but it's been relayed to us on multiple occasions that it falls on our shoulders. And I truly believe that now after seeing the arena they built, you know,

you know, seeing the golf, the holes they created, everything, you know, on that side, it falls on us to be entertainers. And I got a great question earlier that I thought was pretty good. And the question was, you know, I think it went as long as the lines of how much on the PGA Tour are you focusing on also the competitive and the entertainment side on the PGA Tour? And what is it here? And I think when you're on the PGA Tour, you're so much more in the competitive side, playing great golf, trying to win tournaments.

And that turns into great entertainment value. Think about the U S open Bryce and Roy. They weren't trying to be entertainers. They were trying to win a golf tournament and it was compelling because they were being competitive, trying to win a great, you know, a historic golf event. And that turned into great entertainment. This is going to be different. We have, we're still going to be competitive. We still want to win. Last thing you want to do is give bragging rights to someone like tiger who we all know can put the needle in to you at any given point. But we have to be more in a,

you know, leaning into the entertainment side, show more of ourselves that people won't get to see when they're on the PGA Tour. You know, be vulnerable a little bit and not afraid to say certain things that, you know, may come off, you know, may rub your playing competitor that you're playing against wrong. Like, it's

It's okay if you say, like, Wyndham Clark hitting that tee shot on that one hole. Hey, Wyndham, don't wipe it right like you did at LHCC on 18 because this fairway is only 30 yards wide instead of 70 on that hole. Like, that's okay. Like, that's going to be fun. Like, listen, some viewers may not like that, but I think –

that's what the viewers want to see. They want to see what they would see playing with their buddies on the weekend at their local club. What is going to be said between us? They want to hear, they want something similar that they said between their buddies at the local club on the weekend. Billy, like as a, as a player, how will you gauge the,

If this thing is successful, like if you have fun and you're doing the dirty bird after you make birdies, you know, if it's not inconvenient to your typical PG tour playing schedule, if the ratings are good, if a lot of money is being wagered on the action, like as a player, how will you sort of determine whether this was a positive experience for you or not? Well, I'm going to sit here right now. I say it's going to be positive. I don't, whatever happens happens. Like I'm excited. I know for me, I'm going to enjoy this entire experience. Um,

I will say I've been practicing the dirty bird, um, the dance. Cause I listen, you, you brought it up and I'm not going to mention, you know, I wasn't going to mention it, but yeah, there may be Anderson baby. Those, those are the great years. Exactly. Um, so, um,

But I think when you look at it, we are in a perfect spot. We're primetime TV on ESPN. We're going to have a great viewership. We're going to have a mixture of, you know, hardcore golf fans and recreational golf fans. And you're going to have a mixture of people who haven't been, you know, around the game of golf or never watched golf. They're going to see it in a different light, which I hope allows makes them, you know,

take up the game of golf, whether it means they go to local, you know, you know, bar restaurant that has a simulator and they hit golf balls in there and take up the game that way. And then maybe at least the golf course, I don't know, but just getting people in the game of golf is, is my always been my main goal, you know, over the last several decades. Cause I think it's, it's such a great game. But I think, you know, listen,

viewership is going to be huge. That's how we rate a lot of things as the viewership there. That means we are a success. Obviously, we have the gambling aspect of it, the wagering. I think that's another aspect of it getting. Listen, I'm not a big fan of gambling by any means.

But that's another way. That's where the world's going. And people like to wager on things. And so, you know, there's probably a small percentage, you know, that's successful. That also leads to success. But I think it's along the lines of if the players, I go back to the players do what we should do and be entertainers and really play into that entertainment value and show who we are. Like, just be who you are.

You may have to turn the volume up a little bit more like a Cam Young and Patrick Cantlie. They may have to turn up the dial a little bit to be a little bit more than they are comfortable being. But I think just that will lead to ultimately the league being successful.

Now, I want to circle back around to this idea of trash talking. And you actually had a good one at Ricky Fowler that it was a little subtle. He didn't want to hit a particular bunker shot because it was sort of aiming towards the media folks. And you said it's nice of you to spare them. And he said something about I've always been a friend of the media. And you said, yes, you absolutely have. Who do you in part of this league? Are you looking forward the most to talking trash to? Is it something that is it someone that gives it right back to you? Is it someone who might be quiet? Yeah.

Listen, I'm not great at like the one line dingers, like the zingers right off the way, like JT is really good at that. Like if something's said to me, like, and you know, there's sometimes I can be really quick witted, like the, the, the Ricky thing where he said, well, the meat has always been great to me. I'm like, yeah, you've been, you know, you can't do anything wrong. I mean, I wanted to go one step further and said, you know, you,

You could be like Trump. You could shoot somebody down Fifth Avenue. You could do that. You could shoot a media member and they still love you. Like you've got so much goodwill on your side. It's not going to change. But yeah, I think to me, like you guys know me the best and I pretty much say what I think. And sometimes it gets me in trouble and sometimes it doesn't. And so I'm not going to hold back. I'm going to enjoy this a lot. I think, you know, showing,

Listen, I think people, when they see me on the golf course, see me really competitive. Obviously, I got a lot of fire. I think sometimes people don't see, you know, through the TV how much enjoyment I do have on the golf course and I'm enjoying the round of golf and how much I'm, you know, interacting with the players and the caddies and the fans out there. So this, at least for me,

Shows people that this is who I am every day. You just don't get to see it because the camera only shows your shots. They don't show your entire four and a half, five hour round and what you do in between golf shots, what you talk about in between shots and everything.

It's an interesting point, Billy, because like, I don't know if you watched the showdown on Tuesday night between the PGA Tour and Liv. And like one of the criticisms of that was, wow, this is too serious. Like, where's the personality? Where's the banter? Where's the controversy? And the TGL format obviously is geared heavily towards the lighter side, the quick quips and some laughs.

But at the same time, you said that Patrick Cantlay and Cam Young need to turn up the notch a little. Is there a risk in forcing guys who are not

extroverted to be so on camera and then it becomes almost gimmicky or inauthentic to who these guys really are. In other words, is it fair as golf fans to expect these guys to be more than just golfers and be both a golfer, entertainer, Arnold Palmer-esque character as well? Listen, not everyone is born with the competitive and entertainment side like Arnold Palmer and Leacher Venos.

Not everyone's built that way. That's a God-given fact. And I do believe we do need to be...

you know have often authenticity and you know trying to be entertainers but listen cam young isn't gonna start talking you know right away when no one else is talking but there's ways to get him involved you know cam's been on tour now if you start having a conversation with him he'll start talking he'll start you know opening up and everything so cam's not going to just all of a sudden start being me out of the blue and having conversations and you know how the you know

you know, when no one else is talking and go this way or that way. But if you engage him, he will be engaging. And Patrick Cantlie is the same way. Patrick's obviously a little more open. Obviously he's, you know, we all know he's very smart and very opinionated on things. But I think if you, when you engage him, he opens up and he becomes more engaging. So I think there's things that we can do as teammates and as fellow competitors

to make those players that aren't natural in that aspect of being engaging comfortably right away, you can help them out by sort of opening up that door for them to walk through.

I felt like the arena that we saw, that I saw for the first time today, was like a bright and shiny tour that you open up on Christmas morning. You've had a chance to see it a couple of times now. What do you like the most and what are you looking forward to the most when it comes to the matches? I think the music. I think the lights. I think feeling like I'm an actual...

you know, another athlete in another sport, walking out, being in the field of play with everyone around you, with the fans, you know, being interactive, you feeling the energy, feeling the tension, feeling, you know, just the excitement that they have. You know, you're going to have the music playing, you know, we're going to have our own certain songs that are played. I think that entire thing is just going to be so cool. And then,

the same time i don't know if it was mentioned to you guys but literally right where we sit right behind us are going to be the owner's suite so we're going to have our owners of the of our uh teams and clubs we represent right behind us so imagine you know listen every athlete or every other athlete in their sport knows the owners are sitting up in a box but they're way they're away from field of play they're right behind us i mean that's another thing you want to do well not only for your the guy

the guys you're playing with, but for your owners and the club you're representing, the team you're representing. So, I mean, it just plays into another aspect of, you know, it's still going to be massively competitive, but we're going to have a lot of fun doing it.

And I think it's just, like I said, I think when you get, when you're inside the arena, you're going to feel the excitement. I think the fans aren't, it's going to be natural for them because they're going to feel like they're at, like I said, Mercedes-Benz Stadium. They're going to feel like they're at Fenway. They're going to want to, you know, just be the way they are there compared to what they were at a PGA Tour event where they got to be more reserved. They got to be quiet more often. They only get excited when great golf shots are hit or putts a hold. Like they're going to be talkative. They're going to, you know, you're going to feel the energy coming

throughout the two hours of the match. Billy, can you explain some of the logistics with this in terms of,

Why are you playing on Atlanta instead of playing in New York? How is this going to fit into your regular tournament schedule? When are you actually going to play? I think it's been a little bit confusing for golf fans how it's all going to be rolled out. Can you explain from your perspective what your spring and late winter is actually going to look like? Yeah, so when this was brought to me in 22, obviously they told at the time of window they were going to have it when it was

the best chance for us to succeed when there was you know when football wasn't going on when baseball hasn't started back up yet really it was only basketball and hockey and there was a window there on mondays and tuesdays where there was no sports and there was an opportunity for it to be filled um and so

And so when it came down to scheduling, you know, majority of the players know where they're going to play. And so they try to work it out where it made it the best and logistically for the guys to have matches on those sites. Listen, some guys that may not work entirely perfectly for them, they may have to fly back on the West Coast and fly back to a tournament or they may be here at home in the East Coast and then fly out to the tournament afterwards. But they've done a really good job of trying to make it work.

You know, we're going – listen, we're going to adjust. We travel all around the world. It's nothing that we haven't done before. So, listen, until the first five weeks of the season or four weeks, we're on the West Coast. And once we come back to the East Coast, it's really easy for a majority of guys that live here, you know, in the Southeast, especially in Florida. And then the team-wise, you know, they went out there and found people that wanted to be a part of this. They found – they knew they wanted to –

you know, the best way to build a brand or build, you know, excitement and sort of the, the fans being a part of something is, is making teams out of cities, cities and teams. And so team, so the fans can feel like they're part of something and actually part of that team in their city. And so they, obviously the, the investors and the owners of these, of these clubs are where they are, are located. Obviously Arthur Blank being in Atlanta makes total sense. Arthur Blank's not going to own a team in Vegas.

but he's going to own Atlanta because he has Atlanta Falcons. He has Atlanta United. He's been in Atlanta for a long time, for 30, 40 years almost. So he has that already, those connections and the fans can,

hopefully if we play well and with everything else we're going to do connect the lane of Falcons and the lane of United with the lane of drive golf club going forward so we can bring in that fan base that those clubs already have bring it to the Atlanta drive immediately so we get that support and that excitement around our club

Okay, before we let you go, I wanted to switch gears really quick just because it's been a bit of a newsy week. There was one question I wanted to ask you and I'm pretty sure I know the answer to it though, but the PGA of America announced on Monday that they are going to start paying players on the Ryder Cup team. It's going to be $300,000 to charity, $200,000 as a stipend. Do you feel like this was something that needed to be done? My pockets don't need to be filled to play a team competition. I'm very happy to play one without having money in my pocket. Now,

Does it need to be done? I don't know. I don't worry about that. Listen, I played one team competition. It was a President's Cup team. We got X amount of dollars that we could use and how we saw fit. Majority of time, every player gives it to charity. That's what they do. And that's what's always been done and always been set up. So with this more money, it doesn't make it

make me want to play a team any more than what I already did. I think if that's what the PGA America saw fit and that's what they want to do, so be it. But like I said, I'm very happy to be a part of the Ryder Cup team and not get one cent from it.

Billy, we had many more questions about reunification, pathways back, the new PGA Tour CEO. I guess we'll find you on the range early in 2025. Like I said, you guys know where I'm at, and you guys know I can't stop talking, and I always share my opinions on it.

We always appreciate you hopping on with us. Have a great holiday. Look forward to seeing you at Kapalua to start the new year. Awesome. Thanks, guys. And on the PG Tour range soon. Happy Merry Christmas to you guys in New Year. Thank you, Billy. See ya. And Rex, it was certainly fascinating to hear some of what Billy Horschel's insights are on the game in general and TGL specifically. Where you are today for Media Day. Like, what else has stood out to you about the whole project? Are you more of a believer now in...

you know prior to media day you had probably some preconceived notions of what tgl was going to be what it's going to look like how it's going to sound what's going to feel like inside the arena has that changed at all at the time you spent in south florida uh to a certain degree if there was 24 billy horschels on making up this entire league i'd be like yeah this is going to be fun to watch because i just watched billy out on the out on the playing field and heard him talking trash and sort of interacting with the other members of his team so to speak i think all of that

has the potential of being fun. I think that's going to be the product. Again, the technology is unbelievably cool. And once you actually sit down and you see it, you and I have been talking about it now for the better part of two years. But once you actually sit in the arena and you see it, it's going to be fun. And if you're one of those, I think 1,800 people is essentially what the arena will hold now. If you're one of those 1,800 people, it's going to be a really fun experience. And going forward, there's the idea that you can create teams of LPGA players.

And then you can do mixed teams of LPGA and PGA tour players. And then you can do some sort of college event here. Like this, this isn't the end game. I mean, there's plenty of other things you can do with it. They just didn't build this big arena just for just a,

whatever it is, 16 Tuesday nights or 16 Monday nights. Like there's a lot more planned in this, but it goes back to the heart of it. Like this has got to be an entertainment product. This can't be just a normal 72 hole stroke play PGA tour event where the players go out with their heads down and don't really want to entertain, don't really want to engage in the public. If we can get 24 Billy Horschels,

and you're going to throw Rory in there and Tiger in there and make those guys understand that, man, you've got to get on stage. Like this isn't you being in a big field by yourself now. This is you on stage. If they can all understand it, I think it has the potential of being really cool. It's very interesting too, isn't it? To see the direction of,

at the game of golf, at least at the professional level, is going. You're still going to have your Thursday through Sunday PGA Tour competition at Bay Hill, the Vallejo Texas Open. You're going to have the Memorial Tournament. But you're also going to have, if that doesn't necessarily satisfy you, you're going to have other opportunities, whether it's sort of the Creator Classic,

that they debuted earlier in 2024, the week of the Tour Championship, where they're bringing in some of the influencers. YouTube Golf has exploded in a different way. You have Live Golf, if you're into that sort of team format. You have TGL, if you're into that sort of format as well. You have professional golfers linking up with...

with YouTube influencers to create content that way. You've had a Breaking 50 series with Bryce DeChambeau who's sort of carving out his own niche on the internet. You're seeing a diversification of golf that certainly did not exist before.

two or three years ago. And certainly you can credit live golf with, with giving these guys opportunities to, to sort of expand their own personal brand in a way that, that makes themselves more valuable. But I think TGL is also an extension of the PGA tour, borrowing those players as well. It's not going to directly compete with tournament competition. They're trying to give a little something for everyone. And I think that's a positive direction that the game of golf is taking as opposed to just your regular 72 hole stroke play competition. Yeah.

And I think that's good for golf. I had this conversation with our colleague Todd Lewis at the Tour Championship this year on Wednesday when they were having the Creator Classic. And look, Todd and I are men of a certain age and we're of the same age, but he kind of pushed back with the idea of being that he didn't understand this. And I had to make it clear, like, this isn't for you. And I picked up my phone and I Snapchatted my middle son and he got back to me immediately. Did you get this guy's autograph? Did you get this influence autographed?

No, I don't do that. But I had to hold up the phone and show Todd, like, this isn't for us. Like, you and I are going to tune in to watch the 72 holes they're going to play at Eastlake, you know, starting tomorrow. Because you're old. Because we're old. Exactly. That's the game that we grew up liking, and that's the game we still like. However, there's plenty of real estate to open up the game to the curator classics of the world and TGLs and even live golf, if that's your thing.

And I want to be very clear. We will be giving this in terms of TGL, our fair shot. As you mentioned a couple of times, you and I will be at the debut match Monday and Tuesday, the first week of January, January 6th and January 7th. We'll be doing a preview podcast live from the arena on the sixth. That'll be posted. And then you and I will have team coverage.

from a debut match on that Tuesday. Looking forward to that again. That is the week after the century, the season opening event of the 2025 PGA Tour schedule. Rex, surprisingly, it has been a newsy week in golf the week before Christmas. The first bit that dropped on Monday was the PGA of America making official what was rumored and reported over the past couple weeks, and that is that U.S., product cup players, U.S.,

Players will be paid to play in the Ryder Cup instead of just $200,000 to a charity of a player's choice. Now that amount of money has been bumped up to $300,000 for charity money.

in addition to a $200,000 stipend to be used as any player sees fit. We have beaten the takes to death. We do not need any more opinions on whether or not this is a good or bad thing. But you did talk, Rex, to PGA of America officials before this became announced on Monday. Why? Why?

Why are they doing this when it could potentially backfire so spectacularly during the week at Bethpage Black? I think they didn't have much choice. And to be clear, when I spoke with Kerry Haig, who's the interim CEO at the PGA of America and the new president, Don Ray, they made it perfectly clear that there was no push from at least their perspective from the players to get paid. There was no input when it came from the players perspective to get paid.

Hi. Hats off. Hats off for Patrick Cantlay. There was no push. There was no impetus from the players. I think I didn't realize it. For those of you who are listening to this, this is not only a visual medium. Lab decided to start waving his hat. It took me a second to figure out what is happening there, Cynthia.

Something wrong? They had to come up with some sort of solution. And to go back to the idea when I talked to Kerry Haig, the last time they made this policy, when they created it, it was 1999. And they were giving $200,000 to each player's charity. That's where that money had to go. Things have changed in the game. You're right. We have beaten this horse completely.

to death. Let's be honest. Like there was no corner of this we haven't covered. So they had to come up with some sort of solution and I will give the PG of America credit. This is sort of an elegant solution to what was a very complicated issue because you still have 300,000 now going specifically to charity. And then the players can do with whatever they want to with the other 200,000. I will say that on Tuesday we had to do sort of a special live from, cause you pointed out it's been, I'm sorry, a special golf central because it's been a bit of a, a newsy week. Um,

Rich Lerner asked me on that telecast, how are the players supposed to deal with it? You're right. To your point, there will be some pushback from people who don't think the players should get paid. I said, if they really want to be out front of this, do what Keegan Bradley did. He, on Monday morning, texted me and said he declined to comment for the story, but he said, you can tell whoever you want, put it in your story, that I'm going to donate all $500,000 to charity. That's the way the players win in this.

that take your win, take the W right now, but then be very, very clear. I'm giving all $500,000 because again, we've covered this $500,000. Just Scotty Scheffler is comically low. When you consider he made $74 million playing golf this year. So the idea that he just got $10 million in cryptocurrency, whatever that is, whatever that means. Uh,

The idea that he was or was not going to play the Ryder Cup over $500,000 is ridiculous. And you could say the same thing about the absolute rest of them. This isn't going to change their mind about how they feel about this event. That said, the Europeans are going to have so much fun with this. They certainly are. And to be clear, the $200,000 stipend can be used how any of these players see fit.

If they want to bring their entire friends and family contingent to Bethpage, they can use it for that. If they want to travel privately, they can do that. If they want to pocket all the money and use it for holiday spending cash, they could do that. Or, again, they could donate it to charity. I would expect most players who are multi-million dollars 10, 15, 20 times over...

to donate all of that money for the $500,000. Should players be forced to like pay their own way to the Ryder Cup? No, that's, that's absurd for a tournament that reportedly, you know, generates $150 million in tournament revenue. Like that's absolutely absurd, but I, I'm still, I'm still reticent to say that this is a good idea.

$500,000 for U.S. Ryder Cup players when the Europeans do not have a similar clause, when the Europeans could potentially be playing by different rules. It could, again, potentially be an own goal if things do not go well for the Americans the week of Bethpage Black. I think that is where the PGA Tour – I mean the PGA America. I'm sure they considered that, and they still are going ahead with it anyway, but it's certainly a calculated risk.

When I was meeting with the PGA of America officials, it was Sunday morning. We were getting ready for the news to break Monday. And I was talking with a couple of officials and one of them asked me, do you think we're still going to be talking about this in March or April? And my response was, no, I'm sure that there's going to be plenty of other things that come up two days later.

like we weren't talking about this necessarily because of the news we're going to get to in a moment. And I go, but when we get to September, we're going to research, we're going to circle back around to this because the Europeans are going to make sure we circle back around to this. Like they will be brilliant about exploiting this. And as I think the word you use was weaponizing it and they are going to do it very, very well. Do,

To be fair and to be clear, the PGA of America pretty much followed the PGA Tours policy. So the Tours policy when it comes to President's Cup players for both the U.S. and international team has been since 2022 that everybody gets a $250,000 quote-unquote stipend. You can give it to charity if you want. You can keep it. You can buy new grills with it. You can do plane tickets, whatever it is you want to do with it.

So the PGA Tour had already come up with a solution. So all the PGA of America did was sort of slide in line, and they know there's going to be pushback, and they know people aren't necessarily going to like it. The only reason we're going to talk about it again before we get to those matches is when Luke Donald brings it up in his next press conference. God, I love a $200,000 stipend to use right now as I'm eyeing a roughly $2,500 chud pit that I'm hoping Santa brings me in person.

Where are you going to put it? You have no room on your back porch. You have no room on your back porch. You make room. If you want something, you make it happen. Rex, you did mention the other bit of news that happened the week before Christmas.

You were part of the breaking news show on Golf Central on Tuesday. It may have cost you a tee time, a top 10 course in the world, but the PGA Tour announced it is launching a search for a new CEO. Keep in mind, this is in addition to Jay Monahan's job as commissioner. Completely different role, completely different job responsibilities. Give us a reason, Rex. You did a 30-minute show, 22 minutes counting commercials. Give us a reason why golf fans

should care about this added layer of tour bureaucracy. Okay, pulling back the curtain, as we like to do. Got heads up early Monday morning that, I'm sorry, early Tuesday morning, that something was going to happen.

and immediately we were told to be in position for TV at 10 a.m. So immediately my mind went to, oh, there's going to be some sort of announcement. There's been some sort of deal between the PGA Tour and the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia. As I start texting people and people start filling in some blanks for me, I realize that that's not the case at all. I can't give you one reason why anybody should be interested in

And this story, and we did a 30 minute special and I'm very proud of everyone who's involved. Keep in mind, like Golf Channel is dark now. Like there's no one in that big building up in Connecticut. So you had to get people in the building. You had to get Rich Lerner in place. You had to get everybody behind the cameras in place. It's not an easy thing to do. As I told one of our producers, well, at least it was good practice in case something real happens over the next few weeks when we're dark again. It's interesting in as much as

whatever's happening to Jay Monahan, and I don't think either one of us can say with any amount of certainty what's happening to him. If this is his exit strategy, which a lot of people seem to think it is, it's a really good exit strategy because not only did he seem to get a promotion, he got put on another board. So now he's on PGA Tour Inc. board and PGA Tour Enterprises board, Enterprises being the for-profit arm of the PGA Tour. And the new CEO will report to both boards. And also there's a search committee that also Jay Monahan

was on. So it seems to me that the tour is moving in a direction where they understand this is big business, that we now have a $1.5 billion investment. And then whatever's going to happen with the PIF deal, like we need to start looking at this like a fortune 500 company would, this is no longer a charity. This is a business and you expect returns. It's clear. They need someone in that chair, whether if that's Jay's chair or not, who,

who understands how to run a multi-billion dollar business and understands how to take care of the people who matter the most in that business. And I hate to break it to you, but it's not the media. It's not the fans. It's the investors. It's also interesting too, like there have been a lot of headings

for PGA Tour Commissioner Jay Monahan over these past couple years. He had the COVID crisis that he had to navigate in, and he got high marks for doing so, one of the first sports to come back. Obviously, he had the existential threat with live golf and the poaching of players. He had the congressional hearings, and the litigation needed to be dropped as of June 2023. And now he has private equity involvement in answering to different bosses. But Jay Monahan threw it all

has endured, if not thrived. And it's interesting where now he's, as the commissioner, he's overseeing like PGA Tour Inc., which is the player-run tour. But now, like, thanks to what happened on June 6th,

like all decisions don't necessarily go through him. They're going through a player led feature for tour policy board where the players now have the majority on that. And the business aspect, which was supposed to be Jay Monahan's domain. And the reason why he was selected as PG tour commissioner has now fallen to what will be a new CEO. Like, it seems like,

Less work while still being greatly compensated, while still having a very important seat at the table. Jay Monahan's legacy has been one of enduring, of survival. And I think you and I both agree that once this deal gets done and the chief marketing officer who was on the show agrees,

Andy Weitz, the tour's chief marketing and communications officer, said that they're hoping to share some more news on the tour piff front, quote, hopefully in the new year. So we can probably call off some of the breaking news shows that they may have planned for the remainder of 2024. Like, I think once you get...

you know, through this period and the deal is signed and the PG tour is, is flush with cash. All of a sudden, like the PG tour could potentially be stronger than ever. And Jay Monahan is still involved as the commissioner. He's still on the board of, of both organizations, PG tour Inc and PG tour enterprises. It is, it is a legacy of enduring of survival and it will never cease to amaze me with how many controversies and sagas he's had to negotiate over the past five years.

Teflon Commissioner, I'm with you on that front. And look, there are layers to this. And one of the ones, and I'm more than happy to speculate on this front. And it's a conversation I had with a lit player. I didn't say this on air. It was Graham McDowell. With Graham McDowell last year at their team championship, where he was sort of complaining about the state of golf. And he said, well, nothing's going to change with the leadership of

that's in position. And I stopped him and I go, you're talking about Jay Monahan. And there's a lot of animosity on that side towards Jay. Trust me, there are no hurt feelings on this front when it comes to the live players versus Jay Monahan. And I said, however, the same thing applies to Greg Norman, because I don't know if either one of them are qualified to do their job. All I know is that I'm not qualified to do either of those jobs. But I do know that if you're going to sit in the room

and stare across the table at someone else. And the mission of you being in that room is to try to unify golf and make golf better and sort of move on from all the vitriol that we've experienced over the last four years. It's going to be hard when you've been openly critical of that person. If I sat and yelled at you and told everybody I knew that you're an awful person, and then we got on this podcast, it wouldn't be a very good podcast. Okay.

because there'd be a lot of animosity between the two of us. So I'm not even saying that Jay is out of that room. Certainly Greg Norman is stepping down as CEO. I think he will still have a role at Live Golf, but he won't be the CEO anymore. As we get closer to whatever it is going to happen, it makes sense that you would put two people in those respective jobs that can at least sit down at a table, that haven't called each other names in the last few years and can have a civil conversation.

It's a changing of the guard, isn't it, Rex? There's going to be a new PG Tour CEO. There's still the search ongoing. The list of nominees have been narrowed for PGA of America's CEO. The LPGA is looking for a new commissioner. There's a new chief executive of the DP World Tour. There's a new chief executive for the RNA. There's a lot of movement going.

at the upper echelon of golf leadership and sort of shaping the future for what golf is going to look like. It's going to be very interesting to see over the next couple of years. Rex, this is the last weekend.

before Christmas. What do you have planned? You and I will have a podcast again on Monday, December 23rd. May actually take a couple podcasts that day. Again, we're not anticipating necessarily any breaking news podcast, emergency podcast for the remainder of 2024, but we shall see. We will be prepared for that. What do you have going on? I,

I wish I could tell you I was going to do something delicious on my pit barrel smoker. However, I live in a part of Orlando that backs up to a national wildlife forest, Wakaiwa National Forest. And we have a lot of animals that run around our neighborhood, and we've lived there for 20-plus years. For the first time ever, a bear got a hold of my pit barrel smoker, which is not small.

and drug it halfway to the woods and then decided, oh, I only want the parts that have been smoking meat for all these years. So it took the grades and it took like the rods where you hang the meat on. And I guess they're just meat sickles for him now because they're gone. They just...

So luckily, I think I'm getting a new grill for Christmas, but we'll see. This would never happen, of course, if you had a thousand pound chud pit. There's no way that the black bear in your backyard would be dragging that. God, I'm still hoping that Santa is kind to me. I have been a very good boy.

this year. That is going to do it for this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lav. As mentioned, Rex and I will be back next week for another edition of the pod recapping anything else that happened in the world of golf. Also looking back at the year that was in golf with plenty of storylines to chew on. In the meantime, you guys are the drill. NBCSports.com slash golf for our latest news, notes, and updates. Thanks for listening. Thanks for the support. We'll talk to you guys next week.

Hell's gates are open. Get ready to save humanity in Diablo 4, Vessel of Hatred. Continue the saga and carve your own path through Sanctuary's cursed lands with massive updates to character progression, difficulties, and loot systems for powerful demon-slaying action. Unleash fierce skills as you embark on an immersive campaign, tackle new co-op dungeons, and team up with allies using the new Party Finder.

Hell awaits you. Save 35% off Diablo 4 and Vessel of Hatred today in the Diablo 4 expansion bundle. Rated M for Mature.

When it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. With Indeed, don't search, match. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to Indeed data, and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast. If you need to hire, you need Indeed. You can even use Indeed for scheduling, screening, and messaging to connect with candidates faster.

93% of employers agree that Indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other job sites, according to a recent Indeed survey. And since Indeed's matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences, the more you use Indeed, the better it gets. Join over 3.5 million businesses worldwide that use Indeed to hire great talent fast. Plus, listeners get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash NBC Sports.

Just go to indeed.com slash NBC Sports right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed.