Is this really the best way to determine a $25 million winner?
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Hello and welcome into this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lav. It's Memorial Week. Jack Nicklaus is at the podium. Defending champion Scotty Scheffler is at the podium. Roy McIlroy, not at the podium. More on that in a minute. But let's start, Rex, with the news of the week, at least early week at Mirafield Village. That is...

The fact that the PGA Tours Tour Championship is undergoing yet another change. The starting strokes format, which had been in place since 2019, is no more.

Looks like we're essentially back to square one, doesn't it? That's exactly it. It's funny when this news kind of came out yesterday afternoon and as it developed, I couldn't fight to keep going back to 2007 when we started this. And our friend, our colleague, our podcast buddy, Steve Sands, sitting at the big whiteboard, scribbling, trying to figure out the math on his own on live TV and how...

In the moment, all of us knew, well, that's not going to work. We have to find something else out. Now, all of these years later, nearly two decades later, we're still trying to figure it out. I will say, and there's a lot of parts of this to unpack. We knew change was coming to the Tour Championship. The Tour had been pretty clear about this. We still don't know exactly what it's going to be.

So if you lay out what they have done just this year and also keep in mind, it is interesting for the PGA tour to change essentially the format for their own tour championship in May, halfway through. We got three months to go until Eastlake. I know. That in itself is a whole different conversation. But what they've done, they've gotten rid of starting strokes. Last year, Scottie Sheffler was...

Ranked number one going into Eastlake, so he started at 10 under. Whoever was second started at 8 under and all the way down to number 30 that started at even par. It was a confusing system, and Scotty Scheffler probably said it best for all of us when he called it silly. And I believe he actually used three sillies. Silly, silly, silly, just in case you didn't get the first two.

And I think everyone agreed. Like we had almost gotten to the point where you and I, those of us in the media, well, we were mocking it because all we would do on Thursday and Friday and Saturday and Sunday is say, well, Scott, he's leading. But Colin Morikawa is actually the leader right now based on the way we really play golf. Not this fake stupid way that the tour came up to play golf. And it goes back to what you and I have touched on numerous times, calling this a playoff, calling the FedEx cup,

whatever a playoff was just, it was never going to be a good fit. Golf doesn't stack up the way other playoffs do. So what they've got done is gotten rid of essentially starting strokes. It's just going to be a straight tournament, which I think most players, Scotty Scheffler being at the front of that line,

are in agreement with. And it's important to point out Scottie's at the front of the line because Scottie has the most to lose of anyone right now. Again, started last year at Eastlake at 10 under par with no worse than a two-stroke lead over the guy in second place and then a 10-stroke lead over the guy in 30th place. So he is giving that away. And he was at the...

pointing into the spear for lack of a better term to make this change because he thinks it's silly. It's confusing to fans. And I interviewed Jay Monahan, the commissioner of the PGA tour this morning. I think everyone felt like it was time for a change and that's this year.

The interesting thing to me that was left unsaid, because the tour is trying to control the message as best they can, is twofold. One, there will be more change. The commissioner's line to me was, this is a journey. And the journey means that the tour championship in 2026 and beyond probably won't look at what the tour championship looks like in 2025. My guess is it's going to be a smaller field. I don't know what the number is going to be. 2015, whatever number, we want to slice it up. They want to make this something bigger.

that is coveted, something that's hard to get to. They're going to make Eastlake a little bit more difficult. They're listening to the fans, and I guess the fans want to see something closer to even par, which I don't understand because every time we have an even par winner, everyone thinks it's boring golf. But okay, I'm fine with that as well. The one thing that the tour did not want to address that seems obvious, it's the elephant in the room, is the $25 million that the winner, Scotty Scheffler, got last year at Eastlake.

That goes to the winner of the FedEx Cup, which is, quote unquote, your season long race. Every player I talked to today, whether that was a player on the policy board or the player advisory council or just a normal member said that number is going to have to change. You're going to have to find a way to reward regular season performance in a way that is commensurate with the way you're going to reward this and the playoffs. So I heard all varying degrees of different ideas, like just split whatever the pot is and.

And whoever wins the regular season gets half of that. And whoever wins the playoff gets half. And then it's adjusted all the way down for every one ounce. I had one player tell me that, no, the winner of the regular season should actually get more than the winner of the playoffs because it's harder to win the regular season. You need to put more time and more effort into it. And you have to sustain that solid level of play over months, not days. And so that's the part of the puzzle that I think is the most interesting to watch here going forward. That was a lot. I'm sorry.

I mean, that was five minutes of just, I mean, I can, I can tell you've been doing very packaged hits. You know, it's like, you get 20 seconds. You got to wrap around sound. Come on, get it, get it back. Brando's got takes on the U S women's open. Now I know how Kerry Williams does it. I didn't know how he did it, how he does 15 minutes of monologue. I can do it off the top of my head. First of all, I mean, there's, there is a lot to unpack there and I'm glad we're doing this podcast to get into it. First of all,

What could be more PGA tour than having this grand announcement? Jay Monahan's on set at the Memorial to announce this new tour championship format, which is essentially just the old tour championship format. Well, they got rid of the algorithms for the, for the actual winner, but okay. I see what it's, it's 72 holes of stroke play. Whoever wins at Eastlake in terms of shooting the lowest 72 hole score, that is the player who's going to walk away with the FedEx cup trophy. I do think it's an improvement, but,

over the starting strokes format. Although I didn't Rex hate it as much as I think a lot of people did.

And I think if you look at the winners that we've had since 2019, it's not like we've had all these aberrations or anomalies or flukes. I mean, you've had Rory twice. You've had Dustin Johnson. You had Patrick Cantlay. You had Victor Hovland, Scotty Scheffler. Those are, I think, worthy champions who had done a lot, not just during the regular season, but also during the course of the playoffs as well, that it seemed like a fitting lineup.

FedEx Cup winner. The reason why I didn't like the starting strokes format, and it almost came to fruition last year, was you have a Scotty Schefter who has an epic year. And at that point, he'd won, what, seven times worldwide?

In 2024, you could have a two-shot swing on the very first hole, and all of a sudden, all of that great work is for naught. I didn't like that when you're still trying to crown a season-long champion. The issue that I have with what they've now returned to and what the players clearly want, and Sky Shuffler said it repeatedly on Wednesday, is that 72 holes of stroke play is the best way to determine a winner that week.

That 72-hole stroke play format is the exact reason why they felt like they needed to make a change after the 2018 Tour Championship because it's not that exciting because it doesn't necessarily crown the season-long winner. You can be the 30th-ranked player in the FedExCup

win the tour championship. And all of a sudden you were crowned the FedEx cup champion. We've been doing this FedEx cup thing since 2007. We are conditioned as golf fans and observers to,

to equate the FedEx Cup champion with the season-long champion in terms of the best player that season. Right or wrong, that is the very definition that has been sort of drilled into us of the past two decades. This does not get us closer to that scenario. It still feels like a miss. I know it's a bridge year in 2025 to something that could be a little bit more innovative, a little bit more compelling. But to me, it doesn't quite work.

what it's setting out to do, which is to crown a season-long winner. No, and I can't debate that. And clearly, Adam Scott was probably the best talking about it. He's a member of the policy board. He's been intimately involved in this. And he made it even more clear than the commissioner did that what we will see going forward will be more closely aligned, I think, with what players have decided that they want.

And that's important to point out. The fans are the ones who from the fan forward survey are the ones that brought this up. But this has been a player driven initiative from the policy board, from the pack. And I will be more curious to see what 2026 and beyond looks like more so than I am this year. This year was just a stop gap. They clearly had had enough with the Scotty Shufflers of the world rolling their eyes.

at starting strokes and the fans being confused and the media doing the same thing every day after every round, pointing out what the real leaderboard looked like. The world ranking even pokes fun of them by not even recognizing that Scottie Scheffler won last year. Colin Morikawa got the first place points from winning there because that's the way they do it for the world ranking. Even that should speak volumes. It's not the perfect product and I'm,

I don't know that they ever get to the perfect product. If I'm being honest, I will give Lucas Glover complete credit for this quote. And he says, it's been since 2007, right? And I go, yeah. And he goes, so 17, whatever years. And he's not very good at math, but I was like, yeah, something close to that. And he goes, and we've pretty much had 17 different versions, right? I was like, yeah, that sounds like, right. And he goes, if you have a golf course, it's gone through 17 renovations. You know what you have?

A bad golf course. I mean, it's hard to disagree with that. I'm struck by the fact that this is a player-led initiative, right? And I think most PGA Tour players, the format they play all season long is 72 holes of stroke play. Of course, they're going to think that that is the best way to determine a winner of this magnitude. It's the reason why major championships have that exact format as well.

Players, though, on the PGA Tour don't necessarily know what's going to make the best product, right? They know how to hit great shots. They know how to entertain from a shot-making and a skill standpoint, but they're not necessarily great businessmen. They don't know what fans are clamoring for. They don't know what business executives and sponsors are clamoring for. They don't know what TV executives are clamoring for. I go back to the Delaware meeting.

in summer of 2022 when they cobbled together the idea sort of in haste of the signature event. Back then it was called elevated events where they're essentially just getting the best players together more often as a way to reward the top players both financially and competitively. You can argue whether or not that's been successful. It's been the model that the PGA Tour has adopted since then, but that was a player-led event.

initiative as well that I'm still, as we sit here with Roy McIlroy now skipping his third signature event, I still think there's probably some room for growth and improvement in that respect. And so having PGA Tour players determine the future of what should be their Super Bowl seems a little bit misguided to me

And I realize there's other stakeholders who are in the room and have a stake in this decision. But PGA Tour players don't exactly know what fans are looking for. And fans that I've talked to, fans that comment on this podcast,

Fans that are lighting us up on X or Instagram or in YouTube comment sections, they all want match play. They want something that's more compelling, that's more innovative. Right now, this is 72 holes of stroke play is just about the least imaginative pathway that the PGA Tour could go. Because if you have 72 holes of stroke play at a more difficult golf course like Eastlake, what differentiates that with a small field

from a truest championship or from an RBC heritage or this week at the Memorial tournament. It's still a limited field. The best field of the PGA tour can offer on a very difficult golf course with all the best players.

You're pandering a little bit to the fans. And let's be clear, you and I had a tough week on social media. We caught some strays. Maybe we should have. Maybe we shouldn't have. But it doesn't matter. But now you're pandering to the fans saying that this is what they want. You don't know what they want any more than I do or any of the players do. And I'm curious sometimes even if the PGA Tour does. And look, the Fan Forward initiative, it was pretty broad. It's still just a snapshot. I mean, they talk a lot about it, but it's 50,000 fans.

That's a snapshot. It is. And you're looking at everything is anecdotal when it comes to that. I agree with you on this. You're going to argue, as I knew you would for match play, because you have argued for match play since the beginning of time on this one. And it frustrates you when no one listens to you, to your rantings and your raving. So you just keep repeating them. You just do it louder and louder as you go along. Match play was always going to be a non-starter. And I did. I was taken this morning. The commissioner was scrumming with a group of us reporters and

And someone, I'm not going to name Alex Maselli, brought up the idea that did you consider some sort of match play, stroke play combination? And the commissioner turned to Alex, and I think his words were, you can come up with any scenario or any possible format you could possibly imagine, and I can guarantee you we've talked about it. I'm sure whatever's gotten kicked around in those boardrooms over the last year, year and a half have—

But players do not want it. And this is the player-led initiative. They do not want it. Not only the players, I would argue the logo on my shirt, and I think your shirt right now, I'm not quite sure what logo you have on right now. The logos on our shirts when we're both working would suggest that TV doesn't want it either.

for a lot of different reasons, but TV, whether that's NBC or golf channel or CBS or ESPN or whoever it might be, does not like match play because it's too volatile. And what they want to assure as best they can is that you get the Scotties and the Rory's and the Zanders and the top names to Sunday. And they mean something. Those odds go down dramatically when you start cutting the field in half every day. We saw it when there actually was a match play tournament. So I think that was,

I'm sure that was discussed and that was kicked around and it was found to be unworthy for all the reasons that you pointed out. You make a really good point that this was player driven and that I would tend to agree with you. This goes to the conversation that we've had a lot recently about the negotiations going on with the public investment fund of Saudi Arabia. I don't know who's qualified to be in that room to negotiate a multi-billion dollar deal that involves international law and everything else that you could possibly imagine.

and politics and everything else. I don't have a clue who could possibly be qualified. I'm not, I'm not sure anyone from the tour is, but,

However, they are. This is where we find themselves. Same thing can be said here. The players are going to decide what their competition looks like. At Delaware, that's a good starting point since you brought it up. That's where player empowerment came to the PGA Tour. It's come to every other sport, and you can mark that date in the history of the PGA Tour as the day the players took control of the PGA Tour. They got at least one extra board seat with Tiger Woods.

And he's a permanent member now. There is no term on his limit on the policy board. And I believe they got one more. Essentially, the majority of the board in that from that meeting flipped to the players. And so, no, you're right. They're probably not qualified to sit in that room and decide exactly what the best entertainment product looks like. But that's who is going to decide. I also want to be very clear, although I would like to see something different.

Like that you have at the Western amateur where you have, let's say 54 holes of stroke play qualifying that leads into an eight man match play bracket. That is not my idea. That's not, that's not the one Rex that I want to have like the little TM trademark next to my name. What I want to have is the regular season champion called the FedEx cup champion. And then you can call it whatever you want for this three tournament series, some sort of playoff Bonanza where you can have a genuine, genuine,

Playoffs, as it relates now to the course of the PGA Tour season, does not work. Golf does not lend itself to that. So call whoever is leading after the Wyndham championship, the Fattest Cup champion, and then go into whatever kind of format you possibly want for the playoffs. That is why it does not work. To Lucas Glover's point, that's why you've had so many iterations of this thing, because you're trying to shoehorn two vastly different things

into one and it doesn't work. So stop trying. Call one the FedExCup champion and then do something entirely different. That is what I like to have the little TM next to my name for. Respect the sausage finger.

because it's worth pointing out. And I don't disagree with anything you just said. However, I will take the other side of this and be team PGA tour just for a moment. Cause I have voiced this in the past and I still believe it that whatever your thoughts on the playoffs and the formats and everything else that goes into it, the PGA tour has created out of thin air, which you need to give any professional sports league credit for doing this, a reason to pay attention to golf during a time of year when normally people wouldn't be paying attention to golf football season is coming up. Uh,

People are thinking about the holidays, all of the different reasons not to pay attention to golf. They have created this in major markets and they've got the players to believe in it. Those are not small things. So I believe the tour deserves some level of credit.

No, I don't. I don't disagree with that. And I know that Scotty Shuffler on Wednesday made mention of, OK, like we want to crown this season long FedEx Cup champion. But even if that top player all year long doesn't win the FedEx Cup, they still have other awards in which they can recognize those players, namely.

the player of the year on the PGA tour. Then it gets even more confusing because you have the player of the year award who a player year of award winner, who might be someone different than the FedEx cup champion. It's all getting just too confusing. The player of the year on the PGA tour is going to be in all likelihood, the FedEx cup champion. If, if,

if you differentiate the two and if you pull it out and have it at the end of the regular season, after all the major championships are done, after all the signature events are done, after the players championship is done, that is should be the FedExCup champion. And then you do something entirely different. One of the things Rex that I wanted to touch on as it relates to the announcement that was made, perhaps you have some more reporting on this as well, is the mention that they want to have a closer look at the golf course.

in Eastlake and making it more difficult, trying to get scores close to the par, trying to implement more risk reward holes as it relates to the competition. I found that a little bit confusing because when you look at Eastlake Golf Club in its entirety, you know, it's sort of a monotonous layout if you get outside

The eighth hole, which they can make drivable. The 15th hole with that very long par three, which you can also alter the difference anywhere from 150 to 250. And 18, which you can push up to make that one reachable for every player in the field as well. Like it's not like you can blow up this layout and all of a sudden, you know, you've got a bunch of drivable players

par fours and reachable par fives. It's pretty monotonous in terms of 450 to 475-yard par fours. They're just going to narrow the fairways, increase the rough, try and get the golf course as firm as possible. It doesn't seem like that golf course in particular...

lends itself to that sort of creativity. I don't think so either. And I did ask the commissioner about that in my interview with him and that'll air on, on golf channel tonight. And he, uh, golf central tonight. And he did seem excited. He said, actually the setup crew, the tour rules officials are excited about the idea of doing something different, but I'm kind of with you. It's pretty straightforward. You're right. You're going to narrow the fairways. You're going to grow the rough and you're going to hope,

for firm and fast conditions, and that's not 100% guaranteed. Keep in mind. It's August in Atlanta. It's going to be hot, and there's going to be a lot of moisture. And the one thing from a personal standpoint I love about Eastlake Country Club is it has Zoysia Fairways. So the ball is kind of always teed up. If you've ever played Zoysia Fairways as a golfer, you absolutely love it.

It's not particularly hard. That's, that's the point. It's not like you're hitting off a lie in the UK when every time you hit the ground, your hands sting. It's never going to be like that in the gray, even the grass around the greens is not exactly what we saw last week at colonial where it was firm and fast and bouncy. And you had to figure out how to play shots. If you had to play it three yards short of the green, that's what you had to do. But,

You were never flying it at the hole or to the hole because it was going to go over the back of the green. I don't know how they're going to do that. And to touch on my earlier point, I don't know why they would want to do that again. This is apparently what the fans want. And are you telling me the fans really want to see Scotty Scheffler scrambling in August and the heat in Atlanta to try to make pars? I'm not quite sure that's the entertainment product I would lean into.

Yeah, I think you want volatility. I think you want the potential for Eagles and you also want the potential for doubles and triples. But Eastlake just isn't that sort of golf course. It can sort of bogey you to death, but you don't have those dramatic swings. I was surprised to see just because, you know,

when you have the starting or the staggered start format, you're just kind of paying attention to where everybody is. But like the last couple of winning scores from the last three years, Scottie Scheffler shot 20 under par over the four rounds at Eastlake. Victor Hovland shot 19 under par over the four rounds at Eastlake. Roy McIlroy shot 17 under over those four rounds at Eastlake. That's not even an addition to the starting strokes. Like they're going deep on this golf course, which again is largely because it is Atlanta and,

In August, it's hot. The ball flies forever. It's most likely going to rain at some point during the tournament. The greens were somewhat firm, so they had to be a little bit cognizant of that in terms of the whole location. Now that it's bedded in a little bit, maybe you can get a little bit trickier with some of the whole locations, but there's just only so much you can do on that golf course, which I think lends credence to the belief that maybe they need to rotate the season finale once some of these deals are up in 2027 and beyond.

And this came up last night when Todd Lewis and I were doing the actual news because it came up in a meeting when we were talking about it. And there is a narrative out there that they would possibly move twofold. I don't think that's going to happen at least anytime soon. These contracts are due to come up eventually. So this is a whole different conversation. But Coca-Cola and the Southern Company are both Atlanta companies. We all know that...

The PGA Tour is going to go where the money is, and you cannot blame them for that. That's the reason why they're in Memphis, again, in August for the playoff event, because that's where FedEx is. And so that makes entirely sense to me. The other half of it is what Tom Cousins, the late Tom Cousins, did. Wait a minute.

I don't know if that's the case, so I'm not going to say that. What Tom Cousins has done at Eastlake with the foundation is phenomenal. And the restoration project and everything in the neighborhoods around it. And I think the PGA Tour is married to the idea that that's where they want to plant their flag because that is the beacon that they want all the other tournaments to look at and say that's what you should be trying to accomplish in your communities. I'm not saying it's never going to happen, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Yeah, I think Sports Business Journal reported that those deals as it relates to Coca-Cola and Southern Company and Eastlake as well expire after 2027. So we're probably locked into Eastlake for at least a couple more years. Then potentially you could see some sort of rotation. Right before we get out of here, I want to touch on. Oh, please. Sausage finger. Go ahead. I had to look this up very, very quickly. Mr. Cousins is still alive. Thankfully, I'm glad he's still with us. Had to clean that up. Apologies. That would have been terrible.

Very bad for you after what has been an already bad week for you on social media. Jack Nicklaus, tournament host this week at the Memorial, admitted that he was, quote, surprised that Roy McIlroy is not playing this week at the Memorial. A couple of things here.

As it relates to Rory McIlroy, it would have been four tournament starts in a row. If you played the Memorial, this is the third signature event that Rory has skipped this year, along with the Century and the RBC Heritage. He has a stated desire to win national championships like he will try and do next week at the RBC Canadian Open. And he is also playing internationally later this year in India for the first time, the Australian Open as well. And oh yeah, he's an independent contractor who can play whenever he

And wherever he wants still Rex, do you think that this is a bad look that not just, he's not playing the Memorial. He didn't even reach out to big Jack to say so. And we covered this on Sunday and I'm glad now we have the context. Cause I think my argument on Sunday was all of the reasons you just pointed out, like Rory, you need to take his body of work and its totality.

when it comes to playing certain events. And he has played this event on a regular basis. There is a reason why he's not playing it this time around, because he needed to play the Zurich Classic, because he was the defending champion there alongside Shane Lowry. And then, of course, there was the PGA Championship. He wanted to play the Canadian Open because he has won that in the past, and he's made it perfectly clear, winning national championships, the Canadian Open, Scottish Open, Irish Open,

Those matter to him. And so, yes, it would have created a scenario where he's playing four weeks in a row and with a major sliced in the middle and two signature events in the Canadian Open, that was never going to work for him. And my argument on Sunday night, and I still contend that Jack Nicklaus, more than anyone, would understand Rory needs to do whatever is best for Rory to win and to play his absolute best golf. I still contend that.

I still truly believe that the part that I didn't get is the fact that he did not talk to Jack Nicklaus. They are members of the same club in South Florida. They run in the same circles. I'm not quite sure if they cross paths, but it would have been a very easy phone call for Rory to make. That is surprising to me. I mean, I'm, I'm with you. Like, I don't have any issue.

with Roy's decision. He's not contracted to do anything. It's just a little bit of a head scratcher that he wouldn't have reached out beforehand knowing the commitment deadline, knowing how close they are, the relations they have, knowing what literally happened just a couple of months prior where Roy and Jack sat down, went shot by shot over Augusta National. And look, it's been a life-changing couple of months for

For Rory McIlroy, I understand that people in the industry are probably going to give him a little bit of a grace period. I don't think Jack was trashing him by any sense of the imagination. He was literally answering a question, were you surprised? And he said, yes, I was a little bit surprised. It's just a really difficult part of the schedule. You're cramming, I think, three signature events in two major championships within a seven-week span.

And so probably believe, I think in the future, if you're looking at what's best for the PG tour, gaining a little bit more separation between those big events, instead of like cramming them all in one section, makes a little bit more sense. Not saying that would have altered Roy McIlroy's decision at all, but I can understand the plight

that a lot of these top players have of you want to play all these great events, but it's a long season. You're trying to gear up for the major championships. The playoffs are still up ahead. The Ryder Cup in late September, like you want to play it all. It's just not physically feasible to do so. All right, plenty more to come on Sunday's show. We have the U.S. Women's Open this week at Erin Hills, hoping to get Amy Rodgers back

Back on the program, Charlie Woods just won his first big junior event on the AJGA. We'll talk about that as well. We've had a lot of fun with listener questions over the past couple weeks. If you have one for Sunday's show, find us on X, find us on Instagram, hit us up in the YouTube comments section below.

Try and answer it on Sunday. All right. That is going to do it for this edition of Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lav. Be back on Sunday night for a full recap of the Memorial, U.S. Women's Open, and anything else that happens in the world of golf. Thanks for listening. Thanks for the support. Talk to you guys in a couple of days. Instagram is me. This Father's Day, help Dad be all he can be with a gift from the Home Depot because he's not just Dad. He's the handyman of the house, the plumber in a pinch.

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