It's the journey, not the destination: What Viktor Hovland's win tells us
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Hello and welcome into this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lav. We are not at home. We are not in the residence inn. No, in fact, we're here at the NBC Sports Studio. Rex, we've been keeping like a little bit of a secret.

Maybe secret's not the right word. Pulling back the curtain? We are pulling back the curtain a little bit. What are you and I doing that is going to be so special this week on Golf Channel? You're going to see us again in about an hour after this. You'll see us on Golf Today. He and I will be hosting Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I'm not quite sure whose idea that was. Clearly, they've actually never watched us on TV before, but it is going to be fun. So we're on the same set doing it together for the first time. I don't know that we've ever...

Can you think of any time that we were actually sitting next to each other? We've been across the room. We've been on the other side of a range before, but I don't think we've ever been next to each other. Yeah, I mean, they usually confine our nonsense to like six or seven minutes during live from weeks. Well, that's different, yes. But this will be, yeah, the first time we've ever done a show together that's live. You will be in like the hosting chair. Well.

which is, you know, taking us in and out of breaks, doing promo reads. Like, are you nervous about this? Do you think you can handle the pressure of doing it? No. Yes and no is the answer to both those. Yes, I'm nervous, and no, I don't think I can handle it. But I think you and I can juggle it. And just so you know, this is the Chris Sims desk. Sorry.

So I don't know anybody who watches that show. I do. I love his show. And I really have an overwhelming desire right now to talk New York Giants football and quarterbacks. I thought you guys said like scream F-bombs. I'm not going to do that. No, I don't think I have that kind of clout. But no, we're going to talk Valspar Championship. However, this is cool. I like being here. Yeah, it's certainly a very cool spot. Looking forward to it. Make sure you guys check out Golf Channel, Golf Today, noon Eastern time, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. All right, back.

Back and forth battle, the Valspar Championship, between two of the biggest stars in the game with Victor Hovland and Justin Thomas. I think if we'd done this show about an hour earlier, we were thinking we were going to have a different winner of the Valspar Championship than we did considering the fact that JT had a three-shot lead and said it's Victor Hovland.

who wins sort of emerging from the wilderness, from the darkness, to win for the first time since the 2023 Tour Championship. Your biggest takeaway from the final leg of the Florida Swing? Played the last three, the snake pit on the Copperhead course, played that in two under par. That's pretty impressive when you consider.

Everything that he's been through, you and I both have spent a lot of time. I think he's a fascinating character. And when we walked into the green room just this afternoon, I said something along the lines of he's back working with Grant Waite. And you, of all people, were surprised. And I don't think anybody keeps more closer tabs on him than you do. And I think it kind of shows you sort of the dichotomy that is Victor Hovland.

Because here's a guy, and I think you said it best once, always searching for answers. Like he's never at ease with what he's doing. He's never comfortable standing in the same spot. He always wants to move forward. But we actually had to do a flow chart of the guys he's worked with. And this is where he ends up. And someone pointed out on X slash Twitter that he hasn't made a cut in an event that has a cut this year. He played four days at Century, no cut, played four days at Pebble Beach, I believe that's it, which had no cut.

which it kind of shows you the state of his game. It wasn't very good. Go back to last week at the Players' Championship. He was almost dead last in the field and off the tee, and you did not expect him to do what he did this week, but it was impressive. He did go 80-68 at the Players' Championship, which gave you some semblance of hope. I was at Pebble Beach where he started well there, but even like in his press conference there, Rex, on Thursday at Pebble Beach, there was still like some hesitation there.

In Victor Hovland's voice that he knew he did not have it all. All the answers. He was able to sort of just like guide it around the golf course and just get through without too much trouble. He still spoke sort of spoke the same way.

this week in Tampa, where he was not overflowing with confidence, even if the numbers were drastically better. Obviously, the scores were good, but even the baseline metrics, his strokes game numbers were so much better. And it was very interesting because early in the week, he was asked, don't you think you're being too hard on yourself? I know you're a bit of a perfectionist personality. He said, I need to be hard on myself.

Being hard on myself, I'm paraphrasing here, being hard on myself is what got me here. If I wasn't hard on myself, if I was not hardwired this way, I probably would not have made it to the upper echelons of the PG Tour. I love that sort of attitude because Victor Hovland has been roundly criticized and bashed over the past year for changing instructors as often as he changes his shirt. I think he's close to a dozen instructors since he won the Tour Championship in

in 2023 some of them have been rehashed some of them been brand new just trying to get any sort of answer to get himself out of this rabbit hole but i i love the fact that that rex like he's he's unashamed of who he is this is his personality he's not going to shy away from it he's not going to you know try and stick with one instructor and and and go through the motions just because he feels like he should this is what drives him this sort of pursuit of perfection and if it

If it takes him a little bit on a circuitous journey to get back to the winner's circle, so be it. I think it's even more rewarding for him. I keep going back to the word that we used a lot last week at the Players' Championship, and that's grace. Because Xander Schauffele clearly did not want to give himself any grace whatsoever. I think we spoke with him on Saturday about his game, and someone even asked him point blank, don't you think you're being a little hard on yourself? And it was like, nope, I'm being just fine on myself. And you're right. And I think this has something to do with the idea that

that it's in their DNA. They're not at this level. They haven't done the things in the game that those two specifically have done if they aren't their worst critics. And they probably hear all the outside noise, and they realize that, nope, no one's going to be harder on me than me. And I think, Victor, it's a fascinating case study, and you did a really good story a couple years ago where you sort of broke down the idea that... Last year. Thank you for reading it.

Was it last year? It seems like so much longer ago. You seem so much younger. A lot of missed cuts since then, and obviously, as we talked about, a lot of swing coaches as well.

But the idea is he's such an inquisitive soul that he's not happy at all with the status quo. And he's always looking for answers. And he's going to push back on Grant Waite now, who's just the next guy in line. No disrespect to Grant Waite. I'd like to think he's going to keep his job. But there's a well-known saying on the PGA Tour. There's only two kinds of swing coaches. The ones that have been fired and the ones that are about to be fired. And that certainly qualifies when you start talking about Victor Hovland's swing coaches.

But you would almost put him, certainly not resume-wise, I don't want to go down this road, but Tiger Woods. We've had long conversations about had Tiger Woods stuck with Butch or Hank or Sean or Chris, we can keep going down the road and you can sit and extrapolate and you can try to come up with some sort of scenario that had he stayed with Butch, he would have won 18 majors. He would have tied. Jack, maybe he doesn't get to 15, though.

is the point because Tiger Woods was made out of the same clay. It was the same secret sauce that drove him every day to look for changes, look to be 1% better. And I think that's what powers Victor Hopwood. Yeah, I think Victor is more curious about

He's more inquisitive than Tiger was. I think that's just in his very nature. And the story that you didn't read last year, clearly, on mcsports.com slash golf was giving him, I think, being more patient with Victor Hoffman than he was even being with himself because he has a track record of

of going down these rabbit holes, doing something that he thinks is right, and then emerging on the other side. And everyone was sort of panicked, like, why would this guy throw away his game? You go back to the summer of 2023, Victor Hovland, I think, was inarguably

The best player in the world. Fall of 2023. If you follow him through the fall, I would argue he was the best player in the world. I mean, he almost won the PGA Championship, was sort of outdone by Brooks Cuppy and the bunker on the 16th hole. Obviously, he had an opportunity the previous year at the Open Championship. Then you go into the FedEx Cup playoffs, the numbers he was posting there. Does it again at Eastlake. Was great at the Ryder Cup. Like, Victor Hovland was on top of the world. And there was sort of a curiosity for Victor Hovland of, can I get even better?

And it was that sort of pursuit of perfection and not feeling like he had total control of the bullet cut that he wanted to hit, not seeing the shot out of the exact window that he wanted to do that, let him down the path that he eventually went on. And so there's certainly a curiosity factor. But the point of that story is that he has always found a way out of it.

where in college he wanted to hit it higher. So he went down a different string path and he was looking on YouTube and completely changed his game that way. Figured it out. He wanted to get better with his diet and exercise. He started basically revamping his body to what is now a pretty sculpted specimen. You look at his short game, much blind. I remember he won his first event in Puerto Rico. So I suck at shipping.

He never became a great chipper and pitcher of the golf ball. He still is not a great chipper and pitcher of the golf ball, but there was a period with Joe Mayo from 2023 in that summer where he was a top 25 scramble on the PGA Tour. Again, not elite. He's not speathian. He's not like Scotty Scheffler, but he was more than serviceable. And so he has always gone down this path, whether it's long game, whether it's course management, whether it's diet, whether it's putting, where...

It's a little bit curiosity. There might be a little bit of a fall off in performance, at least in the short term. But long term, I think Victor Hovland will emerge from this now better off. It might not be the technical precision that he's looking for and the perfection he's looking for. But I think from a well-rounded nature and sort of his knowledge base, I think he has a chance to be as good as he's ever been. We're going to get to this later in the show. We have some viewer questions. Thank you guys for sending them in. But one asked something specific about you in a press conference that we will get to later in.

But there was a moment with you at the Open Championship, it must have been in 2023, I'm guessing, where you were walking by the chipping green and he turned and flexed a little bit in your direction. He was hitting some chip shots off a hard pan line. I think we've talked about this before. And there was a level of confidence there and a level of, look what I can do now. And you guys didn't think I could do it. Quote, remember when I couldn't do this? Yes. The answer was yes. I certainly do. The blades, the chunks. And I can't believe both of us made it this far in. Quote, unquote, disgusting shots.

His comment, his interview with our very own Keira K. Dixon, he talked about how he hit his share of disgusting shots this week and how he knew that as long as he kept grinding away that this was going to be the result. I had forgotten that he opened with an 80 and then rebounded with a decent round. There is a little bit of apropos there that so did JT. JT began with a really bad opening round last week and then shot a historic round on Friday to rebound. So there is something to be said for the formula that maybe TPC has that beautiful formula

talent of bringing out the worst and the best in a player. Well, and I think, you know, to that point,

Victor Hovland was on the range, basically shutting it down on Thursday after that opening 80. Just hitting driver after driver after driver, knowing that he was close. He'd spoken with a Norwegian journalist prior to the Arnold Palmer Invitational as well, where he felt like I finally had a breakthrough. Something like good scores are going to be coming. Obviously, when you shoot 80, it sort of is a setback, at least initially. But he knew that he was on the right path.

And then it led to Valspar Championship. I think that it's further proof that you're not going to outwork Victor Hovland. You're not going to outsmart Victor Hovland as well. And when we heard him say to Kira K. Dixon in his post-victory comments there that he was hitting some disgusting shots, that's the point that I was trying to make, where...

He is a perfectionist by nature. And there are shots that he hit in winning a golf tournament on a very difficult venue against a pretty high caliber field with, you know, 20 something of the top 50 players in the world that still were not up to his standards. He's going to go back to the drawing board and probably think about those a lot more than he thought about the, uh,

The midiron that he hit into 16 or the five iron that he hit into 17 to close out this tournament. It's that pursuit, I think, that is going to drive him, is going to benefit him in the long run. Like, he's not going to change all of a sudden, but I think there is now at least a begrudging acceptance that he doesn't have to be perfect.

in order to win golf tournaments. He sort of manages misses. I think you call it when you and I were in the green room, we're watching the finish and you said the shot at 16 was a shot of the tournament. I probably would agree with that given the situation, given how difficult that hole was playing. I want to rewind a little bit here and you're right. As we were driving from LaGuardia Airport to the studios here to do tonight's show, you and I both were first and foremost mostly concerned about a playoff after last week. So we're a little up at

on edge when it comes to that. But then when you saw Justin Thomas doing what he did, I mean, the birdie at 15 from 17 feet, his longest putt of the day, that puts him two up with three to play. Under normal circumstances, you would have thought a player of JT's caliber would have been able to close that out. I think it's...

Partly a testament to how well Victor Hovland played and how difficult those last three holes are. Oh, certainly. And look, when you look at Justin Thomas, he's got a little bit of scar tissue as well. He's not won on the PGA Tour since the 2022 PGA Championship. It's certainly been trending in the right direction, sort of unlike Victor Hovland, who was scuffling heading into the Valspar Championship. JT has reestablished himself in the top ten of the world. We're a long ways removed from

from JT who was missing the playoffs. He was being left off U.S. Cup teams. His world ranking had fallen to a point where he wasn't guaranteed the spots in the signature events on the PGA Tour. We're talking about a bona fide regular top 10 player in the world. But if there is a bugaboo for Justin Thomas, at least in 2025, in the limited sample size we have in these past two and a half months, has been his driving. And you look at what club cost him over the last hour.

Hitting it left on 16. Obviously, you're avoiding the big miss on right, which would be essentially a re-tee. Makes bogey there. Had a very poor wedge. What he could have potentially scrambled for par there as well. And then 18 missing left again. So, like, are you viewing this as a positive week for Justin Thomas or

Or are you viewing this as one that certainly got away and one that's going to sting? I think it's probably one that's going to sting. Because when you're a player of his caliber, like I just said, you would expect two up with three holes to play. You expect to win. I don't think JT or Victor Hovland or anyone that's in that category is thinking to themselves, well, if I don't get it done, at least there's the moral victory that I'm heading in the right direction. No, I don't think that's part of the mindset at all. He did talk about the idea because he was asked point blank why hit driver offensively.

on 16 when you know there's a lot going on. And he did sort of break it down and explain, and I did want to touch on this, because you were on spring break last week, stuck on an island in South Florida, no less. And so you had some built-up takes that I think you want to get to, because I also want to touch on the idea that not only did he stop and talk to our very own Keira K. Dixon, but he also spoke with the media and answered five questions, I think, if I counted correctly, as well as I'm sure other media that was around as well. We're coming off the column Morikawa.

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Yeah. Standing up, being accountable for your play, for your performance, for what you mean as a professional golfer. I think that that was really important as well. Like we were talking about Florida swing takeaways. We're going to do that in the next segment. Like that to me was one of them is that there seems to be at least a little bit of hostility

that exists between PGA Tour players and the media they cover. I thought Shane Ryan, our friend at Golf Digest and a frequent contributor for us on Golf Today, did a great job outlining this on Golf Digest last week. The sort of acrimonious relationship that seems to exist at the time. Setting examples like Rory not wanting to talk about snatching the phone away from the fans. Scottie Scheffler being, I think, a little bit more sarcastic about

than he typically is, including with me, in speaking with the press and sort of being questioned about the difficulties that he's having on the golf course and why is he not being able to replicate his season. Morikawa saying that he doesn't, quote, owe anyone anything after a difficult loss. And so I commend Justin Thomas for doing that. I think it's beneficial to hear from a player who just suffered a pretty crushing disappointment to hear why it happened.

how he's internalizing it and rationalizing it, and what he can do to be better. It's very difficult to do in that scenario. Again, we're on the other side. We're asking players to come off the golf course and within 60 to 90 seconds, being asked about something that's pretty painful to relive right in the moment. Kudos to Justin Thomas for standing and facing the music. No, and I think that is a perfect example of exactly what...

not just you and I, but a lot of people, I think, in the golf media talked about last week coming off those Colin Morikawa comments. And I know that was percolating and you had to get that out before you just exploded because you can't hold a take like that in for that long because we covered the Morikawa ground. And I think all of us were pretty clear, no, he doesn't owe us anything. And I'm pretty sure the public...

doesn't want to hear about what the media thinks we're entitled to because we're really not entitled to anything. My argument all along is he probably owes the fans something. He certainly owes the sponsors something. And he owes the media partners something because that's really how your salary gets paid. So, yes, there is something to be held there. So, yes, I will give JT just a modicum of credit.

because of how he faced with adversity and he didn't give short answers. I encourage anybody to go back and listen to Sunday night's interview. He went in depth. He wasn't afraid to dig into it. I know it's painful, but I think that's what a professional does. It's beneficial because we as media members are sort of liaisons to the fans and the fans want to know these players better. They want to know what makes them tick. They want to know what makes them sort of click and they,

Justin Thomas, by talking to the media, answering five or six questions, going in-depth on what his decision-making was down the stretch, how he was feeling down the stretch, how he's going to sort of move on from this disappointment, learning all of those things about Justin Thomas post-ValorSport Championship...

is beneficial for the fans. We can now sort of create a narrative the next time Justin Thomas plays and have a greater understanding of what he's battling, why he was battling it, and what he can do moving forward. I'm very curious because these were the two protagonists, Rex, from Innisbrook. As you look forward to like the rest of 2025, who do you have? Let's just stick with the Masters because it's coming up in a couple weeks. Who do you have more confidence in at the Masters? Victor Hovland, who just won a golf tournament.

Or Justin Thomas, who did not. You got your feelings hurt last week, didn't you, when I had Todd Lewis sit in on the podcast? A lot of people said it was a great pod. Yeah, yeah. I could tell. You didn't like that. No, it was very disproportionate.

Exactly how many people thought it was a great pod? He had to do it outside, which we need to talk to T. Lou about that. You don't have to sit outside every time there's a podcast. We like to do things inside, even in lonely, cavernous places. That's not a tough decision for me. And I think Victor Hovland is clearly moving in the right direction. But JT, because I think everything about his game, his putting is the part that blew me away. He picked up almost 12 strokes on the field in Tampa.

putting. I mean, if he continues to hit the ball like he has really the last two weeks. And I always go back to, and Rory did a really good job of this a few years ago, explaining that when it comes to a good round of golf, if I make six or seven or in JT's case, last week at TBC Sawgrass, 10 birdies in a round,

I can get rid of the other stuff. It's easier to get rid of the bogeys and the double bogeys and the mistakes. Those I can clean up. As long as I'm making the birdies, those are the hard things to come about. And he's clearly making those when you look at what he did last week and this week. I think cleaning up the mistakes is the easy part. And...

Just like I made the argument last week when it came to Rory McIlroy making bogey, I believe, at 14. That was the hardest hole in the golf course at TPC Sawgrass. So I gave him a little bit of grace. He probably didn't give himself grace. I will give JT some grace because that is a really tough closing stretch. Yeah, I can see that. I mean, I certainly have more confidence.

at the Masters with Justin Thomas. I was sort of struck, Rex, like Justin Thomas' major record since the 2022 PGA is nothing short of awful. I mean, one top 30 finish in the 10 events last year.

But his game hasn't been particularly good overall since 2022. No, but he's been trending. Like, he played fine last year in 2024. Obviously, 2023, that was a low point for Justin Thomas. And it really comes down to putting. The last two years on the PGA Tour, 135th and 174th. You referenced how well he putted at Innisbrook. Much improved as well. He's now like...

to slightly above average on the PGA Tour on the greens. That's huge because if his ball striking is off, and again, it has not been off all that much, particularly with this approach play, which is sort of entering the levels that he was during his peak. Like he doesn't have a bailout.

on the greens if if his if his long game sort of abandons him in major championship venues you're going to miss more greens it's going to be a little bit trickier he has a sublime short game but if you can't make the five seven ten footers with regularity uh if i think it's easy to see why justin thomas's major record of late has not been great another reason why i like justin thomas in the major championships this year is he's he's sort of showing

a level of patience that we have not typically seen from Justin Thomas. I've covered him a long time, all the way back from his junior golf days, and he is not a patient person

by nature. But you've seen what he's done the past two weeks. Shot 78, 62. The team just saw a great estimate to cut at the Players' Championship. This past week, went out in 40 on Thursday, changed his attitude, ends up making the cut, and then shoots 65, 66 on the weekend. We know the firepower is there, but if he can just sort of ease off the pressure just a little bit so he doesn't make it so...

I think he just puts so much pressure on himself inside the ropes to start big tournaments that it can be sort of counterproductive for him if he could just ease off the pressure and not have to come back the way that he's done the past two weeks. But I think the patience that he's shown the past couple weeks is very helpful for him. You went to a very prestigious journalism school at the University of Georgia. You're very, very proud of that. However, you're not shy of uncorking some wild takes.

And when we were getting ready for this, you had a wild take on why JT's putting is so much better. Would you like to share that? No. I would not like to share that because it's wild. You think he's working with a putting coach of some sort? No, I don't know that he's working with a putting coach. I speculated whether if a South Florida connection was...

that Brad Faxon has paid off at all. Oh, see, I wouldn't have used the name. See, that's where you messed up. See, I think that's just wildly speculated. He did work. Justin Thomas did work with a putting coach the past couple years. He's sort of gone it alone, trying to be more instinctive with his putting, just for a second set of eyes. It would not surprise me at all, particularly with the relationship that Brad Faxon has.

We're going to start getting ready for the Masters where you and I will start working up our tiers when it comes to exactly how guys are going to slot in. And I'm not sure where I would put JT, but certainly I would put him ahead of Victor. We've established that. And if you're doing it, let's say, just in the first tiers, the top 10 players, I'm not sure I would keep him out of there either, simply because he seems to be trending in the right direction. He seems to do all the things that you have to do well at Augusta.

Yeah, I don't want to go through tears right now. We have ample time to do so before the Masters. Who else at the Valspar Field stood out to you? I mean, those were certainly the two leading protagonists. I think Jacob Bridgman, the way that he has played the past couple weeks in the PGA Tour, it seems like every time that he steps on the green, he's going to make a putt.

Xander Schauffele, Jordan Spieth, I think did just enough at times. We're going to get to Xander Schauffele here shortly. I think they did just enough at times to feel good at what could possibly be their final start ahead of the Masters. Billy Horschel for me because he was so honest earlier in the week talking about how difficult

the game has gotten. It was sort of reminiscent to what we've heard recently from Max Homa and other players who are just struggling mightily where Max sort of, and again, this is what we ask for from players when it comes to being honest, being open, not just with the media, but allow the fans a peek inside to see exactly how difficult this game is. We have a tendency as we just did for the last 20 minutes of only talking about the two guys this week at the basketball championship who made the game look easy. But in this particular case,

Billy Horschel, at least for two rounds, didn't feel like the game was very easy. It was actually exceedingly hard, using his words, not mine. And for him to have a solid week, and he spoke to the media afterwards and talked about, I needed something, anything,

Give me an indication that maybe I'm getting ready for Augusta National. So that's the one that stood out to me. You're not even mentioning the 120-yard left-handed shot that Billy Horschel hit, which was quite possibly the best shot I've ever seen? No, I wasn't going to mention it because it fills me full of rage and jealousy. Because he hits left-handed better than I'm ever going to hit right-handed. Like that?

Like perfectly on plane, high soaring, was able to stop it quickly. Shallowed out the club perfectly. Yeah, this wasn't like a hard line drive. This was like a high soaring left-handed shot by a right-handed golfer. With a wedge flipped upside down and made the putt just to make it even better. And I did want to say this. I was watching the early round coverage early Friday. I was just doing stuff around the house. And JT was paired with Jordan.

No, that's not right. It would have been Saturday. So, yeah, just doing stuff around the house on Saturday. And I have to tell you, I don't believe there's two players when they get paired together and the mic is open that are more entertaining than those two. Yeah, I mean...

Rory and Shane Lowry probably got to be on a short list, but you really don't need. You don't hear the negativity coming from Shane and Rory as much as you do from JT and Jordan. Yeah, I mean, you don't need an on-course reporter. You don't need any sound. Like, just lay out and just let them talk. First time they had been paired together for the first three rounds of a PGA Tour event since 2018. Give us a direct feed of Justin Thomas and Jordan Spieth.

Plenty more on the Florida Swing coming up after this short break. And just as a reminder, folks, we actually do this podcast twice a week, not just on linear television. On Mondays, a reminder, the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lab back on YouTube. And wherever you get your podcasts on Wednesday afternoon, we'll have a full preview of the Texas Children's Houston Open. Plenty more on the Florida Swing and the Valspar Championship right after this short break.

And welcome back into our cavernous NBC Sports studio here, Rex. The end of the Florida Swing. I know this is near and dear to your heart. You've lived in Central Florida for, what, 60 or 70 years now? Titusville. I'm from Titusville. Looking at your age, we're not certainly going to get into that. But look at what we've seen through the totality of the Florida Swing. What are your biggest takeaways from this stretch?

Probably start with Rory. I felt like that was such an impressive victory at the Players' Championship. He had won this before. I think the conversation you and I had on Monday when we were leaving TPC Sawgrass was you seemed to think that he needed that victory. I didn't necessarily felt like he needed it, but I was certainly impressed with how he did it. He needed it under the circumstance. I want to be very clear. He didn't need it for his resume.

He needed it to sort of bat away some of the criticism and the scar tissue that had been accumulating. And you weren't here again on Wednesday, but apparently some people did not like the playoff. I certainly liked the playoff. That's insane. That is insane. I didn't understand that at all. I felt like that.

I'm not going to say the best playoff in golf because certainly there's other situations that you run into. No, that's the best playoff in golf. It's 16, 17, and 18. And it's good. The most famous holes in all of golf. It's good because of the dichotomy between the two players that were in it, Rory and JJ spawn. And I think that was a lot of fun to watch. It's good because those three holes, we all know them, whether if you played them or not in the back of your mind, you know what you would do in a certain situation. It was good. At least for me going into it, because I had expectations of what Rory could do on that first hole.

And it came to pass that, yeah, he essentially had a one-stroke lead going into it. So I thought that victory and what it maybe meant to him, not necessarily in his career, but in the moment as we get ready for the Masters. Yeah, and again, he'd had so many near misses. Like, pick your favorite one of the past couple years, whether it was LACC, whether it was Pinehurst.

Irish Open last year. The Irish Open, BMW PGA. I mean, the blow up at the Masters, squandering another chance to win the career Grand Slam, like any number of them. He needed to win a big event. He needed to do so with authority. He may not have done so with authority, but he certainly did so decisively. I think he certainly did so with a game that was less than his A game, which

throughout the course of the week at TPC Sawgrass. And so that's why, Rex, I think one of my biggest takeaways from the Florida Swing is that Roy McIlroy might actually be the favorite for the Masters. Not world number one. Scotty Scheffler, who has won two of the past three green jackets. Roy McIlroy is more complete than he's ever been. You look at his body of work this year, he's never been worse than 17th in limited action. He sat on the PGA Tour, also had a top five finish on the DP World Tour.

What is going to come down to, and Roy McIlroy again is playing this week in Houston. We'll be there to cover it all on golf today, is can he overcome the Masters history that he has and the slow starts that have sort of doomed his bid to complete the career Grand Slam? Just twice in 16 starts at Augusta National has he begun with a round in the 60s.

It's clearly not because of anything technical. It's clearly not because of anything with his game. To me, that is just, that's pressure. That's anxiety. That's not getting himself in the best headspace to begin a major championship. Goldie, I promise I'm not going to derail the show on this one, but the menu, the Masters dinner menu. Yes, yes. You saw it.

My wife ordered it almost instantly. That's why I wanted to bring it up. My wife called it, quote, unquote, childish. Childish? It's the most delicious menu I've ever seen in my entire life. I don't want to take a deep dive on this. I apologize, Goldie. But that is the – like everything that I want on that menu is there. And they have like the azalea cocktail mix, which she was very excited about as well this year. Like, yeah, we're already hosting a master's party, which, of course, I will not be –

Good for you. Because of Sunday, other Masters. Yeah, snatched it up instantly. We were talking about this actually as well on the drive over this afternoon from LaGuardia. And we started going through all of the different ways Rory has prepared for the Masters. Because last year he came in on Tuesday morning, if I remember correctly. And you and I were saying that that's probably not the formula. That wouldn't be what you would do during a normal event. Although that's probably what he's going to do this week at the Houston Open. If not later.

And he's come in the week before and wore himself out. So I do appreciate that he continues to look for whatever the answer might be. And you brought up a really interesting fact here. Yes, he doesn't seem to get off to fast starts. I don't know that that's necessarily important, though. I feel like maybe sometimes he's putting too much pressure on him to avoid. You don't think it's important? You don't think trailing by five, six, seven shots after the opening round? What did Tiger Woods shoot in 1997 to win his first Masters in the opening nine holes?

I can help you there. 40. And how many did he win by? 12. That clearly was not a fast start by any definition. Not for you, not for I, not for anyone. And yet he ended up winning by a dozen. That is an anomaly. That is an anomaly. It's not impossible, though, is my point. Like, maybe he's worried about the wrong thing. Everything Tiger Woods does is impossible. I would not be relating anything to Tiger Woods. I was simply trying to use it as an example that...

He's fixated on Thursday cannot be a bad day for me. And maybe he needs to be less worried about Thursday being a bad day and Sunday being his best day. Because that's what it seems to me is the magic formula. That's what makes the Masters. Yeah, that's the secret sauce for Augusta. Give yourself a...

one two-stroke advantage, one way or the other, coming down the stretch, and you have an opportunity. And I do appreciate that he continues to search for answers, and I think as he gets closer, I would tend to agree with you. I would put him ahead of Scottie Scheffler for no other reason than based on form. Take the history out of it, his history talking about at the Masters, but his form this year, I believe you'd have to make him the favorite.

Yeah, Mike, I don't think anything can happen this week at Houston, barring some sort of freak injury to sort of undermine any confidence that I have in Roy McIlroy. I may change my tune as it relates to Scottie Scheffler if he shows a little bit more sharpness off the tee and into the greens that we've seen. I think that's something to obviously keep an eye out. Scottie Scheffler's putter as well also cost him at times during the Florida swing. How about Xander Shoffley's?

The world number three, we saw him at the Century. We saw him play TGL despite a nagging rib injury. Then he shuts it down for nearly two months. Turns up, Rex, at arguably the most difficult stretch on the entire PGA Tour schedule. Turning up again after nearly two months away at the Arnold Palmer Invitational at Bay Hill, which has always turned up to the nth degree. Really thick rough, really difficult greens and fairways. Still makes the cut. Makes the cut to players.

makes the cut, the Valspar. Have you seen anything out of Xander's game these past couple weeks that gives you confidence that a breakthrough is imminent? If a

Breakthrough is defined by winning the Masters. No, not necessarily. A breakthrough as far as he's moving in the right direction and that by the time he gets to Thursday afternoon or maybe Friday morning that he will have found some sort of confidence that could carry him forward. He certainly made progress last week compared to where he was at TPC Sawgrass. You and I both spoke to him. You want to talk about a lack of grace when it comes to someone that didn't particularly have their best stuff. I mean, I don't want to say this about someone. It's like person-on-person crime because he was just abusive to

to himself when he talked about his own swing. Is he on a ball count? Yep, I'm about to go blow that out of the water right now on Saturday night. And he went over to the range. It's encouraging that he's healthy. I think that's the best part you can take. Because you look at what he did in Tampa, 75-66 on the weekend. Again, this is what I talked about with JT. If you can make the birdies, getting rid of the mistakes is easier. But I don't know what, it doesn't seem as if Xander has a lot of confidence in his swing right now.

No, he certainly doesn't. He said he was on the phone with swing coach Chris Como basically every night.

just sort of trying to go through what he thinks he was doing, what he was actually doing, what the swing feels that he was doing. How did you like Chris Cummins getting that call every now and then? Oh, God. Settling. Here comes another hour. Like, it's clear that this is not just a competitive rust issue. And I think there's always, like, this expectation when a player misses, like, a month or two. Like, oh, you know, it's different once you get a scorecard in your hand. And I'm just a little bit rusty with my scoring. What's that face you're doing right now?

I don't even know. My face is contorting in ways that I wasn't even familiar with. But, like...

I think it's clear now that this was not a competitive rust issue. This is clear that he had a technical issue in his swing, and he is trying to iron it out. Did not play, actually played quite poorly over the weekend at the Players' Championship despite making the cut on the number. Did not start particularly well at the Valspar Championship as well. Had a couple down days as well, particularly on Saturday. Iron play was tops in the field, though. Two of the past four days, he just has the big miss with the driver, which is so unlike...

Xander Schauffele, because when he is dialed in with the big stick, I mean, he's as impressive with the speed, with the pop, with the distance, with the carry, as far as it goes in the world of golf. So I'm with you. I don't think...

I think the Masters is probably expecting too much. He's not expected to play either of the next two weeks. He is in the TGL finale on Monday and Tuesday in South Florida. But who knows? Maybe another week at home with Chris Como, doing it in person instead of over the phone could be beneficial for Xander Schroff. I still think the arrow is pointing a particularly

after the floor swing. And let's go back to last year's Open Championship. You and I both had a chance to talk with his dad, Stefan, about the idea that Stefan gave up the reins as his only swing coach for his son ever. And he gave the reins over to Chris Como because of what you just referred to, because he needed to become a better driver of the golf ball, that there was something loose, there was something technically off.

with his swing specifically as applies to the driver that just wasn't registering. It wasn't able to carry him to the next level. He had won on the PGA Tour. He'd become a top five player in the world, but he hadn't gotten it done in the major championships. And we saw last year as a transformative year what happened when Chris Como stepped in and was able to get rid of those technical deficiencies. So it doesn't seem to me like it's a road they don't know how to go down. And certainly, like the changes he was making were all about distance, were all about speed. The increase in the club head speed,

And being more consistent. Yeah, and being more consistent with his performance through the bag. And I would argue that Xander Shoffley is probably the most complete player on the PGA Tour. But the incremental gains that he made with his club head speed and with his ball speed, being able to, like, four or five miles an hour in ball speed is a monumental difference in terms of apex, in terms of height, in terms of speed, in terms of carry. Like, I think he showed last year exactly the benefits of that. You want to talk...

generally about the golf courses in the Florida Swing. Where do these faces come from? I mean, I don't want to talk about this. This is my biggest takeaway for the Florida Swing, so please have at it. What was your biggest takeaway for the golf courses? I could tell when I ran it by you in the pre-production meeting. Like a scoff. You kind of, ugh, fine. Whatever. You mentioned it. I think the important thing there is, of the four golf courses for the Florida Swing, three of them will rank squarely in the top ten of degree of difficulty on the PGA Tour. One of them is currently going to be second on the PGA Tour. That's Innisbrook, where we just played last week.

Eddinsburg, the best course in the Florida Swing. That was my hot take on Wednesday since you didn't listen to the podcast. Best course in the Florida Swing, and you even said it as we were watching the coverage this afternoon. It's enjoyable to watch the players play that golf course. I know it's always going to be in the shadow of the Players' Championship, and it's always going to be in the shadow of Bay Hill. However, I do think...

If you want to play a golf course, it's really going to get you ready for Augusta. And I don't want to compare it to Augusta because like Tiger Woods, that's an unfair comparison. But it does require you to do a lot of things with your game that you'll need in a few weeks at Augusta. Bay Hill is going to rank in the top ten. I think it's seventh right now in degree of difficulty on the PGA Tour. And the Players' Championship is fifth. You come to Florida and you get beat up. And I remember having this conversation, yay, a month ago.

That's right. I said it a month ago about why the golf course is so easy. Guys are shooting 20 under what's going on. It was easy. And I believe my comment at the time was relax. We'll be at Florida soon enough. And this is what you got. See what Florida has wrought. However, I guarantee if you rewind the tape from the cognizant classic,

Just yay four weeks ago. We were saying there was a lot of hand-wringing. There's a lot of kvetching. There was a lot of wind about just how easy PGA National there wasn't any wind, but they'd also made the decision Friday. The wind came up on the weekend, but to oversee the golf course, which was making it easier and making it more playable. What do those three tournaments though Rex that we've just had with Bay Hill the Players Championship and the Valspar Championship all have in common wind and

Wind was a predominant factor all three of those golf tournaments. To me, players would much rather play in like a downpour or a steady rain as opposed to wind. But if you're a viewer, if you're an observer of the game, I don't think there's anything more interesting than putting the best players in the world on an iconic or a stout test and watching them battle 15 to 20 mile an hour winds. No, that's 100% fair. I will counter and say the wind blew at the Century. The wind blew at Torrey Pines. The wind blows on the West Coast.

Plenty of it. No, it does not blow at the American Express. But there's more trouble on Florida style golf courses.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's what we saw on the weekend at PGA National. But I don't think that's the only test you're going to face. I would argue that of those last three that we've seen, they're all three very uniquely different tests. Like Arnold Palmer groomed Bay Hill to be a very specific type of test. We talked a lot about TPC Sawgrass has turned into one of the best tests in all of golf, I would argue. It's one of those places that as a golf fan you connect with. And then I think I'll go back to Innisbrook. It's very much under the radar, but best

Best course in the Florida Swing. Yeah, I mean, all three of those golf courses are tests of execution.

And I don't think you can find better prep for what Masters is and what the challenges that's presented for Augusta National, which is the most demanding and the most precise golf course on the planet in the three tune-up events that you have. If you weren't the golf courses, then what was your third thing at the Florida Swing? Did you only have two things? So you just gave in to my third thing? Yes, that's exactly what happened. What are you going to do? But goodbye to Florida. Hello.

Hello, Texas. Just as a reminder, the Texas Children's Houston Open live coverage will begin Thursday on Golf Channel. Rex and I will be getting you a full preview all week on Golf Today. Plenty more of this podcast right after this short break. And back by popular demand, it is the world famous love it or lav it segment. We either love an idea or like you love it.

In other words, you criticize it. Rex, I want to get into this, this, this player outburst that we saw that sort of came to a head at the Valspar championship. You had Sahat Tagala chucking a club. You had Patton Kazire booting a putter and you had Adam Hadwin smashing his wedge so hard that he set off the irrigation system. Ennis Brooke, are you loving or laughing this trend of player outbursts? Uh,

I'm loving it because it does show a level of emotion, and I think it gives us a glimpse into how much this means to them. But think about the children. Stop breaking things is what I would say. This is why we can't have nice things, Adam Hadwin. And I do want to address each of them. I want to leave us plenty of time for the questions on the back end. But I wanted to talk about each of them. First and foremost, Patton and the punt.

Like that was impressive to me only because how did he not hurt his foot? Do you have any idea how much this could possibly? Yeah. Like that's not a little punt. I mean, Hugh, Hugh freeze, the football coach has to look at it like, huh?

I could see Patton Gazire pinning his opponents inside the 20. If Chris Sims was sitting at this desk right now, he would be very impressed with that. And here we are. Here's Tagala. And that is not a good shot. Way out to the right. Drops the club. Oh, God. Picks it back up. That's the part that gets me. Not only do you drop it. Just a violent throw. Pick it back up. Oh, Adam. All right. A little bit of background on this one. This was actually just video phone footage from someone who was in the crowd. Amazing quality. And Adam's about to miss the cut. So clearly he's aggravated.

And so this is what we end up with. And as embarrassing as this is, you can only imagine how he felt. Well, obviously, like he's embarrassed. And that's the best part of that video is that he smashes the club in anger. And then like a half second later, being the Canadian that he is, he's like, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Can someone can someone please help me? I'm so sorry. And his wife, Jessica, is brilliant on social media. I suggest everyone follow her on X last Twitter.

Because she immediately stepped in and did a really good job of lightening the mood. Because it would have been easy for the PGA Tour to slap him with a fine. Well, they're probably going to slap him with a fine. No doubt about it. And he also has to probably pay for the sprinkler. Let's be honest on that front. But she was really good. So she started making fun of him like she normally did, like any good wife would. But then the very next day, she posted one of those signs we see around the workplace. Zero days since an incident. I thought that was brilliant.

That is good. As someone who went to Ace Hardware on Sunday morning to fix a sprinkler head, I can assure you that Adam Hadwin of PGA Tour fame can afford a new sprinkler head. I'm also loving this trend because, first of all, this is what the Florida Swing does to players. It gets them at their wits' end, and this is the final leg of that, as we just detailed in excruciating fashion. I think there's also something to be said about the societal impact of this. There's more cameras now than...

than there ever was before between PGA Tour Live, Golf Channel, NBC. Any fan also has his cell phone out as well, as we saw with that Adam Hadwin video. Like, this doesn't bother me.

on the surface like it's the player's reputation if they want to go out as as a hothead or a player who's breaking something like that's only going to affect them but we we complain rex when these players are are too vanilla and so i don't want to be in a position where now we're going to start criticizing them because they're actually showing passion inside the ropes

Absolutely not. And look, those types of outbursts have been a staple of the PGA Tour for a long time. Actually, Patton Gazire's agent is a gentleman named Jimmy Johnson. And he told me a story once that when he played on the PGA Tour, he had a notorious temper and that he hit a chip shot. And while it was in the air, he was trying to hit a flop shot. He snapped the club over his knee, put it in the bag and grabbed a new club and didn't tell his caddy. And his caddy spent three holes looking around, trying to figure out where the 60 had gone.

Keep in mind, Davis Love III also had a famous incident in the late 90s as well where he smashed his club. A sprinkler head ended up being a fountain in the bunker. It happens. I'm okay with it. Second topic, live players Carlos Ortiz, Patrick Reed, and Jason Kokrak all earned births in the Open Championship via the Pathway and the Asian Tour event last week in Macau. Are you loving or laughing that outcome for the professional landscape? I'm not.

I'm laughing this and here's why. And hear me out on this one because I do think that where we're going in the game, we should love. And I want to try this out. As you said, we're doing golf today. So I want to make a point of doing this on my one shot because we have talked about trying to unify the game.

forever. We have talked about the idea of bringing the best players back together again more often. We have talked about how Jay Monahan, the PGA Tour Commissioner and the Governor of the Public Investment Fund need to find a way to come up with a deal that we don't have this fractured sport anymore. And here at the International Series event, we have found a way, even a slim way, even just a little way to allow those players back in to the biggest events. Also, the majors have decided to

that they're going to start recognizing on different levels, but they're going to start recognizing what happens on live golf. So that part I love. I would love it more, though, if we had an opportunity to see it more often. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I would like to see it more often, if that makes sense. You're talking about more pathways, more tournaments offering spots? Yes, because what we want in the game is reunification. And this was a very, very small step towards that.

Right? Yeah. There's no way around it. And I think this is an indication of what the game could probably do if we just get out of the corners that we've dug ourselves into. Yeah, I think that's fair. That's not why I thought you were going to laugh at it. I do love the outcome because you have to give fair play to these guys. Yeah. Like, they went to Macau.

They earned their spots. They knew the major access was going to be limited. They went and they did what they had to do. I have seen some criticism, Rex, like this is defeating the purpose of this Asian tour pathway where the live players are essentially just cherry picking the tournaments that they want to play in because knowing that it's going to offer spots and it's keeping out regular Asian tour players from access to the major championships, which sort of defeats the purpose of this very thing. I think my counter to that would be just play better. You had an opportunity to beat

the Patrick Reed, the Carlos Ortiz, and the Jason Kokraks, and you were unable to do so. But I do think limiting these spots is probably the best move because otherwise you're going to have these players playing 30, 35 times and traveling all over the globe. Final topic, because we are running a little bit out of time. The TGL finale is on Monday and Tuesday.

A two-day doubleheader extravaganza between the Atlanta Drive and New York Golf Club. Are you loving or laughing the idea of the finale spreading out over two nights of madness? I've loved everything about TGO. You and I have spent a lot of time talking about it. Probably more time than we would have imagined.

at the beginning of the season. I think I love the idea of two-hour condensed golf. Like, give me my golf in a small window. I'm not against that. I think that the public has had an opportunity to meet players and to learn about personalities, probably more so, and here I am going to be critical. I would argue that the public has learned more about certain personalities via TGL than they ever have on Netflix because what you're seeing in the heat of competition is the true person, just like we talked about. Adam Hadwin.

is passionate. I don't think he goes around breaking sprinkler heads all the time, but he is certainly passionate about what he does. And I love the idea of just bringing this out to two nights because this is, you don't know. Why not?

First of all, I think you laugh it to be clear. Yes, very clear. I do laugh it. I think TJL executives need to look at the schedule and how this is played out. To me, it feels like such a letdown. The Players Championship, the PGA Tours flagship event, all of these players are preparing, trying to get ready for the major championships are just around the corner as well. Having this post-Players Championship at

It, to me, just feels like a big miss. If I were TGL, I would shift the schedule about one month earlier. There's nothing going on in December on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. You can start the regular season. Then I would try and end with the finale of the TGL finals the week of the Cognizant Classic. The players are already there for Palm Beach. It just makes sense. Before the schedule gets too PGA Tour heavy and players' focus is divided elsewhere, not sort of

inundating their schedules at a very crucial time of year for PGA Tour-centric products. I'm not against that idea, and certainly I was speaking with a member of Xander Schauffele's camp last week at the Players about if you look at his schedule when it comes to just this season, and this is someone who missed a lot of time, and the TGL, it's been tough. He's gassed! Yes, he's gassed. And look, you knew what you were signing on to, to be fair. However, I would expect changes to the format just out of the gates. I would expect probably an expansion to...

two, maybe three more teams. And I would expect more players on each team. That way you don't have to have Xander Shoffley going from the century to that first match and playing the Monday before the players championship. I get what you're talking about as far as make the schedule match up with when your biggest events are. So maybe the Monday after the players championship is a better day to finish it. I'm not against that. I just love the idea of how they're finishing up the season period. Yeah.

I agree with that. All right, listener questions. Let's go rapid fire because we are running out of time. This is from Pro Golf Critic who said, as quiet as it's kept, apparently, we're safekeeping. Virtually every event Scottie won in 2024 was limited field. So this is essentially like nitpicking his achievements. You buying that? I'm not sure what he's getting at there. I guess it's easier to win limited field events, which seems obvious. I would point to Tiger Woods' resume, which he won a lot of WGCs. 18.

Yeah. So, I mean, yes, I get what you're saying on that front. To be fair, and I had to do the math on this, 12 of his 19 Scotties events last year were limited field events. So most of what the top players are playing now is limited field events. You can only, quote unquote, use the cliche, beat who's in front of you. And he also won the players and he won the Masters, which that was about a 90-person field. I feel like that's a pretty full field. But no.

But no, I don't see anything in that. Fewer players to beat, but the players you are beating are more concentrated at the top. I think that's sort of the give and take there. How about this from our friend Joseph Boza? Any thoughts on the early U.S. Ryder Cup picture? It's so early, and you and I both know it changes so much once we get into the major championship season. That list just becomes so explosive. However, I will look at Keegan Bradley at number 19 and say that interests me. I don't think that's going to happen.

However, I'm not going to say no. I'm viewing if I'm viewing this U.S. Ryder Cup picture right now on March 24th. I think there's four locks. Scotty Scheffler, Xander Shoffley, Kyle Morikawa, Patrick Cantley. I would put three players in like the likely division. That'd be Russell Henley, Bryce Nishambo and Justin Thomas. Then I think you probably have five spots up for grabs, which again is just another reason to watch. And obviously big points available at the major championships.

And I think what we're going to end up with is a list that looks vastly different in just a few more months. I do want to point out when it comes to Keegan, I don't want to say the beer. He had a hole-in-one at the Players' Championship. I don't want to say the beer that they brought to the Media Center, but it's not the beer I expected from Keegan Bradley. Sam Adams? Sure, seasonal, something. Certainly. Very delicious. This was a lot of fun. Do you think we should do it all week again on Golf Channel?

I do. I don't think Chris Simms wants us at his desk anymore. I'm pretty sure he's going to want us gone. Actually, he's going to walk in and ask, who are you? Yes, he's certainly going to ask the NFL free agency. Certainly heating up. Come on, Jags. Make some big splashes, if not free agency, and certainly the draft. All right, that is going to do it for this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lab. Just as a reminder, NBCSports.com slash golf for our latest news, notes, and updates.

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