Jordan Spieth's imminent return – and the next act of his career
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Hello and welcome to this edition of the Golf Channel Podcast with Rex and Lav. We are on television, which is certainly a little bit weird to think about. Rex, would you please make a solemn vow that you will not change your role in this podcast just because we are now beaming live into people's TV screens? I'm

I'm so disappointed in myself because I've already broken that vow. I should be in a hoodie. It's what you and I always wear when we did the podcast. And this is what I showed up with. Like I'm doing real TV. I'm not quite sure if I'm up to that. I need to stick to who I am and not get outside my DNA. I apologize in advance.

Yeah, we got Gary Williams preceding us in a five-piece suit, and here I am in a hoodie. If you're new here, welcome. We are two writers of the Golf Channel. We do news. We do analysis. We do hot takes. We usually get to some sort of disagreement, which is a lot of fun for us to get to, which is why, Rex, we got to kick off with our Sony Open coverage. Against all odds, despite battling each other the entire day at YLI, neither JJ Spahn nor Steven Yeager got into the playoff

At the Sony Open, we'll get into that collapse in a second. But Nick Taylor is the winner of the first full field event of the PGA Tour schedule in 2025, a two-hole playoff win over Nico Echevarria. That's now five PGA Tour wins for Nick Taylor. What's your biggest takeaway?

Biggest takeaway. And we always do this. It's the sports radio thing, right? Did someone win? Did someone lose this person went into those people lose it. I think you can honestly say yes, a little bit of both to be honest with you. Let's not gloss over the idea. I'm going to give Nick Taylor, his flowers, the Eagles, the 72nd hole, just to even force that playoff. There's plenty of things to look at his game to be impressed with. But when you, I'm going to go after JJ spawn on this one, because you look at the way he was playing through three rounds. He was doing everything you need to do well on that particular golf course. There's,

maybe only two or three golf courses on the PGA tour that are that approach shot bias. And by that, I mean, you don't have to drive the ball particularly well. You don't even have to put it particularly well, but with your iron specifically your short irons, anything from one 50 and in you've got to be really, really good at. And that's what he did for three rounds on Thursday. He hit 18 out of 18 greens and regulation. I think we made this joke last week when we were talking about how many birdies someone made. I don't think I've hit, hit,

18 greens in regulation in the last year. So he was doing everything right. And then you look at the way things just unraveled on Sunday. He played his last 10 holes and won over par. He had plenty of opportunities to sort of distance himself. And you talk about Steven Yeager. I think he,

That's another interesting component there because I love the idea. And they did a really good job on the telecast talking about he's playing aggressive and the driver wasn't there. He had a case of the lefts and I'm very familiar with those as well. But he stuck with his game plan until he decided not to stick with his game plan on 18. So those two are going to stand out to me as outliers. They lost this tournament, to be quite frank. I don't want to do the Paul Feinbaum thing here right now, but they clearly had opportunities and blew it.

I love the idea of how Nick Taylor finished because it kind of shows what he did best. And I feel like you're going to take the angle that that's the, was this Mike? We're his biggest mistake, not putting him on that president's cup team last year. Yes, that's exactly where I was going to go with this because you, you look at what Nick Taylor did in 2024, he won the Phoenix open. However, he did just have just a single top 25 finish after that. And that was, but what he showed was,

On Sunday, the Sony open was the exact argument for having him on that international president's cup team. The guy is clutch. Like you look at what he has done each of the last three seasons on the PJ tour. He had the bomb to win his national open in Canada. He outdueled Scotty Scheffler, Sam Burns, Sahith Tagala, Charlie Hoffman, and others to win last February in Phoenix. And now he chips in on the 72nd hole to, to get into the playoff and then wins the golf tournament at the Sony open. Like this is exactly what Nick Taylor has done. He's not,

through the bag statistically great in anything, but there's certainly like a clutchness to his game that really can't be quantified. You don't win five times in the PGA tour without obviously a, a bonafide skillset, but you know, the last three wins that he's had now have been in playoffs. There's a grittiness to him. Uh, there's, there's sort of a, um,

an attitude that he's not going to be giving up. I think you have to give him his flower. Certainly you went JJ spawn and sort of either a miss club or a miss hit on the 71st hole. How about Steven Yeager? You know, here's a guy who has, you gotta, you gotta give him credit. He is completely revamped who he is as a golfer. A couple of years ago on the PJ tour, the 2021, 2022 season.

Here are Steven Yeager's driving stats, Rex. He is 184th strokes games off the tee, 188th in total driving and 155th in

That was one of the marquee reasons why he has sort of bounced back and forth between the Gordon Ferry Tour and the PG Tour over the course of his career. He has dedicated himself to speed training. He's dedicated himself to adding power and distance while also keeping at least some semblance of accuracy. And he is now, at least on the PG Tour last year, the 21st longest driver on the PG Tour. I loved seeing him bash away at Wai Lai with reckless abandon. However, it cost him this golf tournament.

Let's be very, very clear. Steven Yeager missed seven of his last eight fairways, most critically on the 16th where he rope hooked one apparently into someone's pond. And then having apparently grown fearful of hitting it

quick left, which I battled even in my round last Friday here in Ponte Vedra. He takes three wood, goes left again, but this time he doesn't have enough distance to cover the bunker. I think he will be ruining what could have been more than JJ spawn, who really didn't have it on the back nine, probably at a miss club on 17. To me, Steven Yeager was the one who's going to be kicking himself.

No, I agree. And again, I love the game plan as much as you do. I love the fact that he has reinvented himself because that's really hard to do in the modern era. I think we've seen a couple of players do it. Matt Fitzpatrick being the primary example of what he was able to do. And then when the U.S. opened, but he became essentially an economist.

completely different player. And he was dedicated to that coming down the stretch. He was going left and left and left, and he just stuck with the driver. And then you stand on the one hole where you absolutely have to hit a driver. And that's 18. It's a par five. That's where you need to take advantage of that. That's exactly what Nick Taylor did. And you dial it back in the worst case scenario. I don't understand that. And that's probably going to be something he thinks about a long time on that plane ride home from Hawaii.

Well, one guy who's supposed to be interviewing the players after the run, but instead he's sticking with us. And that is Golf Channel insider Todd Lewis. Our boots on the ground. This is a new segment that we are going to be unveiling each and every week.

on the Golf Channel podcast with Rex and Lab. We're going to be bringing in the Golf Channel reporter who is on site, who can give us a perspective that perhaps we are missing from either home or in a hotel or wherever it happens we are. T. Lou, how are you, buddy? Answer the question. Did Nick Taylor win this golf tournament, or did a combination of J.J. Spahn and Steven Yeager lose this golf tournament? Well, I think since I'm standing here on the 16th fairway, and of course they have the iconic...

thing here that makes wildlife so special. I'm going with Nick Taylor got the W. Oh, wow. Look at that. Oh, my God. By the way, I'm going to send that for you. You guys are winners for finally having your show at the show. Now, Nate, look, I'll tell you why I think that. Because...

Last six months of 2024, Nick Taylor struggled. He didn't make the President's Cup team. He saw his friends make that team. That is something that he told me he desperately wanted to be on. And it was just a gut punch for him from a confidence perspective. But I think today he overcame a lot of that fear that he was going to have –

in 2025, the same season that he had the latter part of 2024. So I think he showed tremendous fight. And obviously in playoffs, he knows what he's doing. His last three victories have been in a playoff. So I think he showed a lot of courage. I think he overcame a lot of mental obstacles. And I think he fought his way on a golf course that has yielded a lot of low numbers, but was playing very tough this week, that he still has it.

When you look at what J.J. Spahn and Steven Yeager did, really over those last nine holes, and we can pick both of those rounds apart, but what stands out to you? Was it that Steven Yeager backed off and didn't go with Driver after going with Driver all day long on the 18th hole? Was it J.J. Spahn kind of losing his touch on the greens? Like, what were you watching and thinking to yourself, yes, this is going to decide the outcome?

Well, look, Wiley is such a unique animal on the PGA Tour schedule and the fact that you just can't send it and find it and then hit a shorter shot into the green. Here you have to have correct ball placement off the tee. I was actually surprised that Steven Yeager played as well as he did with that strategy where he just sent it as much as he possibly can, especially given the fact that this rough here at Wiley,

was maybe considerably tougher than in years past. It was harder for guys to control the ball in the rough, but that was his strategy. It worked on Saturday. He shot 62 in very difficult conditions, and he came out and tried to do it again today. So, A, I was surprised he did it, but secondly, I was more surprised that he abandoned it on a hole that has been yielding a lot of birdies. I think that is the most significant thing. Why did you...

give up what was somewhat a risky game plan on the hole where you needed that speed the most. So I was very surprised by that. 4.3 scoring average for the par 5 18th hole at YLAI. Tilo, you've been in Hawaii now for two weeks. You covered the century, won by Hideki Matsuyama with record scoring 35 under par. This week, sort of a different story because of the conditions.

Do you sense like an early theme so far on the PGA Tour? What's sort of been your biggest takeaway from the Hawaii swing? You know, I think at full field events, like we saw here at Wildlife this week, there's going to be a little more pressure on those players that are not in signature events because the fact that the PGA Tour is implementing

the exempt status change where they are instead of 125 being eligible to play and are have exempt status in 2026. Now it's down to a hundred.

So those players that are not in signature events are going to have fewer opportunities. So they really have to take advantage at events like this, like events at the American Express and at Torrey Pines and the Farmers Insurance. So I get a sense talking to players prior to competition early in the week that there is more pressure in these full field events with those players. That's the sense I'm getting.

Todd, I am not as emotional as my soft-hearted friend that I share the podcast here with, but I did get emotional earlier this week when you did the report about Grayson Murray. They had a celebration of life, of course, the defending champion, and he died last year. Can you just talk about the emotions of being there for that?

Well, I mean, I've actually had some emotions too. I mean, I was here with Grayson Murray one last year and the fact that in the previous spring, he had recommitted his life to fighting these demons that have plagued him for a number of years to reestablish his faith, to go into the gym and work on his body. He seemed to be settled. He was in a great relationship. I thought the

The future was so bright for him. And I actually thought about that today and that moment a year ago when he won in a playoff. And for him to not be here, you know, it's awkward. It's emotionally awkward, I'll just say that. But the support that the players showed,

At the celebration of life's ceremony on Tuesday, I mean, a lot of players showed up, a lot of officials. Jay Monahan was there. And yes, it was a sad moment, but it was also a time to remember what Grayson Murray's spirit was and how it still lives here at Wiley. I think one of the cooler moments, and we put this on Golf Central. So last year when Grayson Murray won the tournament, he went to the clubhouse. They had a toast for him.

All right. Well, technology doesn't always work out sometimes, Lab. But I didn't want to slow the conversation down, but that was, I'm sure you tuned in as well to watch the Celebration of Life on Tuesday and Grayson Murray's life.

It's so complicated, I guess is the way I would put it. And you look at the things that Todd was pointing out that he had turned that corner. I think I walked away from hearing that report and looking at what they did for him last week, thinking to myself that this is very similar to what Payne Stewart went through in his life, where he had to reach a very similar epiphany to become a better person, to become a better father, to become a better husband, and then to have his life cut short so quickly. It's devastating on both fronts.

Yeah, obviously a tragic story. I would highly encourage everyone to read our friend, Joel Beal of Golf Digest, who did a terrific profile of Grayson Murray and sort of the misunderstood nature of what he was battling. And I hope, you know, Grayson Murray had sort of had warning signs over the past couple of years, and he'd even reached out to the PGA Tour saying, you know, that he needed help and he was battling these mental obstacles and these mental health challenges. You sort of hope that

you know, the PGA tour has, has taken that and understood that and internalize that and made some changes to make what can be a pretty lonely existence on the PGA tour and these independent contractors and make it feel more familial, make it feel a little bit more comfortable. You know, not every player out on the PGA tour has families and social networks to rely on. And so I think it's, it's, it's potentially, you know, it's obviously a tragic story, but,

But perhaps some good can be brought from this and PGA Tour can learn some lessons as well. And you look at what this tournament means to that community as well. I mean, I just think it's a very special week. And I love the fact that Todd pointed out what you and I have talked a lot about, the idea that those full field events are going to have so much pressure on them. I did think it was interesting. I was sort of looking at some JJG.

JJ spawn stats and he finished 98th last year on the points list. And normally if you finish 98th, you've had a pretty good season. That's going to be right on the cusp of essentially keeping your card going into 2026 and beyond because of the way the tour has changed the makeup of who's exempt and who's not exempt. And you realize that you just need one good week. Cause I tried to figure out how did he finish last,

And essentially he had three third place finishes and probably I think he had like 10 top 10 finishes. So you have to, you have to be consistent more, more so than count on that one big week, which is why even as disappointing as this probably was for him, it gives him a little bit of a boost going towards the rest of the season. Yeah. I remember doing a story about a year and a half ago in the FedExCup playoffs, basically about the, I call them PJ tour volume shooters. Who,

When they made the move from the wraparound schedule to the calendar year schedule and sort of condense that nature and players just couldn't play all fall and accumulate points and sort of give themselves a head start in the FedEx Cup race, you were having situations where players who maybe weren't as gifted or as talented and weren't in some of the bigger events as players.

as many of their peers had to essentially just volume shoot and, and add as many starts as possible. Hope that you had top 10 finishes, hope that you could accumulate, accumulate enough points to get inside the top 70, get inside the top 50, get inside the top 30, whatever your personal benchmarks were. I think that's going to be the exact same case now.

that you're sort of moving the goalposts for the number of exempt cards for 2026 as well, where you're going to have players who are dog tired, who are just playing all spring and all summer to make sure their FedExCup points total is exactly where it should be. It does look like, Rex, that T. Lou has rejoined us. Hopefully that beeping from the nearby truck

has stopped. I'm not sure if Tila was barking at that man who was directing the forklift or he's just having bad connectivity issues. But let's keep this conversation going. Todd, how do you think

How do you think players will handle this stretch in the spring and summer? Do you agree that they're going to be logging like literally every single week of the PGA Tour? Or do you think that they'll be strategic and still try to maximize those weeks and those golf courses that really suit their particular skill set? I mean, I think...

these players that again are not in signature events uh they are at a disadvantage there's no doubt about it i i heard this said around locker rooms here out on tour there is the pga tour and then there's the pgb tour um and so for those players you know they're gonna have they're

probably going to take advantage of every opportunity they can to play in events, to accumulate as many FedExCup points they have. And if you're like Nick Taylor, I mean, Nick Taylor was in the first two signature events. I'm talking about Pebble Beach and the Genesis because of his performance and the Aon event.

Next 10, I think that's what it's called. Yeah, 51 through 60. So he's going to be in those next two. But now he's in all of them. And that's such a huge advantage. I mean, 700 FedExCup points to the winner, obviously more money and more opportunity for you to get to the BMW championship. And for those players that are trying to replicate what Nick did here at YLI, you need a lot of starts and need a lot of opportunities as well. I mean, it's quite interesting. I asked a couple of players that will remain nameless

Would you rather have an opportunity to play the Masters or would you rather finish inside the top 50 in the FedEx Cup standings and go to the BMW Championship? And they said, hey, I'd rather go to the BMW Championship because that guarantees me opportunities for 2026. It is a changing landscape. And that is an interesting comment. I think we're going to start probably also like the five million dollars that they're probably guaranteed if you if you're making the top 50.

Now, I get that as well. All right, Todd, for those of us on the East Coast who have been freezing the last two weeks, when you start the year, two weeks in Hawaii, other than the obvious, the beautiful views, the warm temperatures, the ocean, what do you enjoy the most about being able to start your season there?

Well, those two things that you mentioned are pretty good. So we'll start there. I look, I, you know, if you haven't had a chance to come to Hawaii, I will say this. There is kind of like a beautiful spirit from the people here. Don't don't make us don't do not make us do the air horn. Tell us the truth.

No, I'm serious. I mean, it's like, I mean, the people, people are so kind. They're super nice. I, I, I, but I'll say, and it is hard to beat sunsets going down on the Pacific. It is really cool. That is really good. And the fun they have here, as a matter of fact,

Oh, no. I need some help here at Rex and Lav. What should I do? The caddies have invited me to go to Duke's tonight because on Sunday they have a big party there as the sun goes down. Of course. Absolutely. Do you do that or not? Yes, of course you do. Absolutely. I think you should. We appreciate you joining us. Obviously, Rex can't enjoy the nightlife in Honolulu after what happened a couple years ago, but we certainly wish. Oh, wait a minute. Refresh my memory. What happened?

We certainly wish you the best. We look forward to seeing you stateside. All the best. Thanks for your reporting this week. Teeley, we will see you. All right, Mahalo. See you guys.

All right, Rex, one of the other biggest storylines of the week was Jordan Spieth and our friend Doug Ferguson of the Associated Press reporting that Jordan Spieth is targeting the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am at the end of January for his return to competition. Jordan Spieth has not played since the first playoff event in Memphis, had surgery to fix a wrist issue that he thinks actually first cropped up back in 2018. What does this path back signify to you, Rex?

I like many of the things that he said in that story to the AP. Probably first and foremost is he referred to this as a reset. Just talking about it's been since 2018, as you pointed out. And I think we've probably, I'm talking about the golf press, have known that he's been dealing with this for a little while. I didn't know it had been that long.

And I think we talked a lot about this last year at the Players' Championship when he actually revealed that he doesn't know when the tendon was going to slip out of the sheath, essentially, is what happens. And if it happens in the middle of a round of golf, you really can't recover. I mean, it just hurts. You can't make a full swing of it. You're afraid to hit the ground, all of the things you need to do when you play golf. So that was refreshing, the way he sort of talked about it, the fact that he's been pain-free now.

for a couple of weeks, and he's starting to ramp back up a little bit. That's all refreshing. My main concern here, and you are probably happier than anyone else in golf media that he's coming back because you're the biggest fanboy when it comes to Jordan Spieth. My bigger concern is he didn't finish –

the top 25 since April on the PGA Tour last year. He has struggled the last few years on tour, and it's because specifically of that injury. And I always go back to the conversations, and you and I have done this a lot with our colleague, Aaron Oberhausel, him talking about how a very similar wrist injury essentially ended his career. And he tried for years to play through it. He tried for years to have different surgery. He tried for years to do all kinds of therapy on it, and it just never worked. He was never able to recover. And it really cut short what

was a promising career. When it comes to Jordan, he's a generational player. I mean, if you go back what he's accomplished over the course of his career, the major championships that he won, what he did in 2015 when he was chasing down the single season Grand Slam, I mean, that's unheard of in the modern era. To be such a special talent and to be such a pivotal star in the game, he still finished fifth in

And the PIP this year, and he didn't compete hardly anywhere. So he's still a star. The name still carries the weight, but there is a caveat I would put on. There's a level of concern, a cautionary tale, let's call it, when you look at other players who have gone through similar injuries, how it's impacted their careers, and it's worrying to be quite frank.

I certainly understand where you're coming from. I would take a more optimistic view in saying that if this issue has bothered Jordan Spieth, as he said, since 2018, that's exactly what he told me two years ago, and that the issue actually stemmed, he broke a small bone in his wrist and hand, most likely during weightlifting. That's really interesting timing. When you look back at sort of the career arc of Jordan Spieth, 2017 was Jordan Spieth's best ball striking year.

He won his third major that year. He was number two in the world behind Dustin Johnson. Since then, since 2018, he has just two wins in seven years. He's missed a tour championship like four of his last seven years. Obviously, he went through the major dip in form sort of around the 2020 era where he wasn't even sure that he'd be able to recover his game and his form. He hasn't been better than 10th in the world since then. I really do hope, Rex, that this is like a huge reset for him.

He's entering now his 13th season. He's still just 31 years old. He just took 12 weeks off for this injury, for this surgery. That was the longest break he's ever gone without hitting competitive shots. I like the fact, too, that he didn't rush the return from this. I hear what you're saying about this could be a potentially cautionary tale. Look at Aaron Overholtz. He thought about playing the Hero World Challenge. Didn't do it. He actually thought about playing the Sony Open. Didn't do it. He thought about playing the American Express. Hmm.

didn't do it. He wants to make sure that he can go through a stretch. And now, as he told Doug Ferguson, like he's planning to play Pebble, he's going to play Phoenix. He's going to play Riv as well, three in a row. I think it's like 18 total rounds. At least he figures including practice rounds, practice and tournament competition. Then he can sort of reevaluate where he is. But to this point, to not have any pain, to be hitting shots in practice that he

maybe he anticipated having a little bit discomfort with either swing positions or, you know, sort of impact positions, I think is all very positive because keep in mind, Jordan Spieth had the best driving year of his career in 2024, where, where he tailed off and he had a good start to the year. He had a, he had a close finish at Kapalua was sort of his iron play, his approach play and his wedge play. Typically,

Those are the hallmarks of Jordan Spieth's career. It's understandable that the wrist really played a huge role in that. And I think if we look back again at the career arc of of what Jordan Spieth has accomplished, it's reasonable to to sort of view his last six or seven years differently when you keep in mind the ailment that he's been dealing with.

Well, and I've said this about Tiger numerous times, and I think it would be apropos here where a player can lose his health and his confidence and a lot of different things. You don't lose the talent. And when it comes to Jordan Spieth, your point is well taken that there is still a monsoon of talent there. It's just a matter of can he get out of his own way physically and come back and do those things that you pointed out again?

Again, you start to look at what he did in 15, 16, 17. There weren't many players in the world that could beat him at that point in time. I would also make the other argument that Goff needs a Jordan Spieth now probably. Well, the PGA Tour needs a Jordan Spieth right now as much as badly –

probably more so than they ever have in the history of the PGA Tour. So all of those things, I understand why you're being optimistic. I just go back to the idea that there's two kinds of injuries when you talk to trainers on the PGA Tour. There's a traumatic injury and there's a chronic injury. And then traumatic injuries can be bad. And I'll go to Scotty Scheffler because he's the easiest out here right now.

Whatever it is he did to his hand over Christmas and he apparently had to have some sort of surgery. I still don't have any concern, even after we withdrew from the American Express next week, because that's something that can heal, that it's not going to keep cropping up over time. It shouldn't keep cropping up over time. It's the chronic injuries that derail careers. And this, going back to 2018, is by definition a chronic injury.

Yes. However, he never went through a surgical route to repair it. It was always sort of maintenance. It was rest. It was rehab. It was make compensations in his swing or his game or his practice time to sort of get around that. I like the fact that he shut it down for 12 weeks and now he can sort of go forward in the second act of his career and see exactly what he has. And you're exactly right. Like 30,000 foot view on this. The PGA Tour desperately needs that.

Jordan Spieth. It needs some heroes. It needs a player who is universally liked and beloved on the PGA Tour. The fact that he was fifth in the PIP to me without really being competitive tells me that there's like a dearth of superstars on the PGA Tour. His reemergence as a top player would be absolutely huge.

huge. Speaking of the pip, the target, the players who may or might not have gone elsewhere. There was a lot going on last week, Rex, as it relates to live golf. It was like, it was, it was media days for them down in a hotel in South Florida. And so there was like a bunch of happenings and they all came fast and furious, whether it was walking Neiman, uh,

getting another master's exemption, whether it's Kevin Na calling on the major organizations to award spots to live winners and the top 60 points finishers. You had Ben Campbell. You had Luis Massiveo find spots on various teams. You had Eugenio Shikara calling out live golf and potentially being lied to. Of all of that, which has all transpired in the last five or six days, what stood out most to you?

Well, there was a couple of things. One, their schedule was the one that probably stood out the most, to be honest with you, because you see how Liv has pivoted from where they were. It seems to me early that first year, at least, they wanted to go head to head with the PGA Tour. The vast majority of their events, the 14 events, were in the United States. They decided that, OK, we can make this work.

they've realized that it's just an uphill battle. Eight of the 14 events this year on live golf are outside the United States. And the ones that are here are at venues like Trump national where they've had success. It's the week before the masters. There's a lot of attention going on right there because the players are getting ready to go to Augusta national. And the part that did stick out to me from the schedule release is they're going to head to head with the last three playoff events on the PGA tour. Their last three events are head to head with those last three playoff events. That to me,

It's fascinating because it seems to me that what we're hearing behind the scenes is that golf is closer and closer, getting closer and closer to coming together, that we're finding some sort of peace, that we're finding some sort of way to end the separation that's between live golf and the PGA Tour. This seems as if live golf is just kicking sand in the PGA Tour's eye.

because there would be no reason. There's plenty of room on the schedule. The comments from officials with Liv was they didn't want to go head-to-head with football. I understand that. No one wants to go head-to-head with football, but you've only got 14 events. There's a lot of room on the calendar to work 14 events in as opposed to 45 for the PGA Tour. That one suggests to me that we're probably not as close as maybe a lot of people seem to think they are of coming up with some sort of agreement. I mean, as fractured as the landscape is currently, like,

It could, it's, it's only more fractured at that point. Like you're, you're completely dividing the attention of a golf fan, particularly if, as the recent reporting suggests, like live is going to be on Fox next year and you're going to have the FedEx cup playoffs on one major network. And you're going to have the live golf end of end of season race on a major network as well. You're going to have to pick because they're going to be in the exact same broadcast window over the exact same days like that, like completely defeats the purpose of,

I'd love that to be reimagined in the future. I think when you look big picture, the schedule too, you've seen some tweaks and live sort of bowing down to some of the top players. They've had criticisms where you're not playing enough before the masters. Well, now they have a number of events to sort of get tournament sharp, and then you can sort of maintain through the rest of the 14 tournament schedule on live. You've seen some players say we need to play the week ahead of a major championship to make sure that we're heading in there with good form. You're seeing that now for at least three of the four,

major championships. There's still some things that are, that, that need to be done, particularly to John Rahm's point, playing a Lynx golf course immediately ahead of the open championship. But I think you're starting to see live sort of acquiesce to the player's wishes and make sure that they're, they're meeting those demands as well. What did you make Rex of, of the one that certainly got the most headlines?

And it wasn't Joaquin Neiman. It wasn't Kevin Na. And it wasn't sort of these new additions to the team. It was Eugenio Chikara, who, if you don't remember, was the second ranked amateur in the world a couple of years ago when he signed with Live Golf. Ballyhooed career at Oklahoma State, really prized prospect. He won in his fifth start.

with live golf he's had some injuries he didn't get inside the top 30 in the points now he did not get signed by any team he's off live and he's going to try and play in asia he's actually suspended by the pg tour cannot play a pg tour event until next september he told a couple of media outlets rex that live is about the money and that live officials just lied to him about access to the majors in the official world golf rankings do you think this is sour grapes or

Or do you think this is emblematic of something a little bit deeper? No, it's buyer's remorse. And I think it's genuine buyer's remorse. I did a story on Hudson Swofford late last year where very similar situation where he's essentially getting relegated out of the league and was suddenly start to look at his career in terms of I don't have anywhere to play now. So, yes, to a certain degree, it's always going to be sour grapes. However, for you to say now that it's all about the money. Nope. It was all about the money from the very beginning.

that didn't change. It only changed for you now because you found yourself in the very uncomfortable situation of having to play only Asian tour events because that's all you essentially have access to. And so you kind of made your bed on that one. And I think a lot of players are going to end up with this situation. I will say that I found it fascinating. You talk about,

the storylines and how heated the sort of the, the news cycle was this particular week when it came to live golf, right next to that was Tom McKibben, who is playing in an event on the European tour this, this week. He has a PGA tour card this year. He was among the top 10 last year on the DP world tour. He has the future in front of him. And based on his non answers, when he was asked about joining live, it's pretty clear he's joining live. Like he just didn't want to talk about it last week, but it's pretty clear. And so you have two players at that interesting crossroad. We,

where you have one that clearly has gone through it and has this buyer's remorse. And the other is all in and is more than willing to take the money. So I think you're always going to end up with those two, but you can't sit here and say that, no, I didn't see this coming. The idea that you're going to make the argument that I was told that we would get world ranking points and have access to the majors. Well, of course you were, but anyone who can pay attention to anything would have told you that's not going to happen. Well, I don't think this is, I don't think it's binary. I think it's,

I think it's a nuanced situation. Like, I think Eugenio Shikara has reason to be pissed. Like, Greg Norman told him from the outset...

that the major organizations cannot keep you out of the majors. The official World Golf Ranking can't keep you from earning points. Well, they both did. And if you're a young player, it was certainly some calculus to be determined on what sort of route you wanted to take with your career, whether you wanted to have something that was potentially risky. But I also think Eugenio Shakur actually has a legitimate gripe because when you look at live golf and the relegation model that may or may not exist,

And you're seeing players like Bubba Watson and Brandon Grace return for what is being deemed organizational reasons and team building as opposed to a true ad drop like Live Golf had promised. And you see Live Promotions event only offering one spot now. And you see there's no Asian tour promotion with the Order of Merit because Joaquin Neiman won it. They didn't give it to the next...

available one. You still have a situation where if you're Eugenio Shikara, yes, you have been financially compensated in ways you probably could have never imagined early in your career. There's some Spanish outlets that estimated his income about $30 million over the past couple of

years. So I think he, he can, he can still be bitter, but he's, he's now in a, a situation where he can say that because he can step back because he wants to play for, for legacy because live golf paid him.

$30 million over the last couple of years that offers him some freedom that other young players probably can't have. And so I don't, I don't think he's out of bounds. I don't, I don't, I don't think this is foolish. Like I think, I think it's somewhere in the middle. I see what his point is, but I also don't have much sympathy. Does, does that make sense?

No, and I'm going to go the other way. I have empathy. Clearly, I don't have sympathy because I haven't been given $30 million by anyone. So no, I wouldn't understand what that's like. But I certainly have empathy to understand where he is in his career and the plight that he's having to deal with right now and not knowing which direction he can possibly go in. But the idea that, well, no, Greg Norman told me I get world ranking points and we get in the major championships. Ah!

I can tell you right now that I have a bunch of land in South Florida that I'd like to sell you for very, very cheap. If you choose to believe me and hand money over, that's kind of on you. And I'm not trying to dismiss the blame here. Clearly. Or it's on his agent. Like, it's not like the players just determine this themselves. Absolutely. It's the entire camp in here. And to be fair, we've ran into other players. Taylor Gooch being the primary example here where he's

It was pretty clear what the PGA tour was going to do. Jay Monahan, there was no ambiguity when he was asked early days, what would happen if a player joined live golf? They're going to get suspended. They violated our policy. And for him to circle back around when he got suspended, like, I don't know how that happened. All you had to do was pay attention to what was being said. And I know sometimes you're only going to listen to what you want to hear. And this is probably one of those situations. If you had someone handing you a very large paycheck,

for $30 million, then yes, you're probably going to lean in the direction of believing something that deep down inside you know is not true. And I think that's probably what happened here. Just to be very clear, Rex, he is suspended from the PGA Tour despite not having any status on the PGA Tour. And so he's not eligible to compete in a PGA Tour event until next September. So he is going to have to find other opportunities to play. And he will treat the exact same situation. You didn't have to be a member, which I question the legality of that a little bit.

It does seem particularly cruel and unusual. You mentioned Tom McKibben because I think this is an interesting case as well. This is a close friend of Roy Mackerel. He's just 22 years old. He earned one of those 10 spots on the PGA Tour for 2025 through the DP World Tour race to Dubai standings. He didn't deny the reports last week at the Team Cup. It certainly does seem like he's headed to live. Would you be surprised? Are you surprised?

that he would go that route. And it does sound like he'd be potentially joining John Rahm's Legion 13 team.

A little surprised because again, this goes back to our previous conversation. I felt like as we inch closer towards whatever, and again, this is probably going to be the financial terms of the agreement between the public investment fund and PGA tour enterprises. That is going to be the easier part from what I've been told. The more difficult part is figuring out how to make all sides come back together. And Adam Scott actually had some really interesting comments about that this week that I'm sure you want to get into as well. In this particular case though,

If you're Tom, and I think probably much the same way that Jon Rahm looked at his plight 14 months ago when he chose to join at that point in time, because he probably felt deep down inside that they were close to coming to an agreement and they would be back together soon enough and that he could do both. He could get paid by Liv and maintain his status on the PGA Tour. We have now seen

14 plus months down the road. That's not the case. My guess is Tom is making a very similar calculation, but where we are right now, I'm not quite sure if it's even safe him doing that now as opposed to 14 months ago.

It reminds me a little bit of Adrian Marank, who did a similar thing last year while joining Live Golf. He had one of those 10 cards bypass that to join Live Golf. It is a little bit surprising in the fact that Tom McKibben is just 22 years old. He does harbor Ryder Cup ambitions, but...

It also may not be prohibitive. And I say that because Luke Donald said that he's going to look at every player who is eligible to play and to be eligible to play on the European Ryder Cup team. All you have to do is fulfill your DP World Tour playing requirements. And so I don't think it's any coincidence that he's going to be playing on John Rahm's team and Terrell Hatton's team. And I don't think it was any coincidence that when he was playing the team cup this past week that he was partnered with Terrell Hatton.

Like this is a player who still very much harbors Ryder cup ambitions, and he still may play on this year's European Ryder cup team. If he performs well enough on live golf, I don't think that's necessarily going to be a deterrent for Luke Donald as for like the personal decision and, and potentially like stiff arming one of his close friends in Roy McIlroy. Like,

I can't pretend to know what it's like for a European player to come over and play the PGA Tour. And I certainly don't blame guys. It has been a really tough transition for at least some players and even likable lads like Bob McIntyre, who talked about sort of the loneliness and how badly he was homesick. And he thought about just sort of going back to the DP World Tour. It's not like Tom McKibb and Roy McIlroy were going to be padding around all year.

on the PJ tour together. They're going to be playing to T lose point earlier. Like they're going to be playing wildly different tours. If they were on the PJ tour, Roy McIlroy, very much on the a tour, Tom McKibben would potentially be very much on the B tour and trying to make his way. You know, that sort of situation does not lend itself to comfort and ease. If this is going to be a better situation for him to sort of take his game to the next level and then reassess where the landscape is, uh,

either on the DP world tour or the PJ tour in a couple of years, I'm fine with it. I'm not really going to be in a position to criticize a player for that.

And to be fair, Rory McIlroy's thoughts on Liv versus PGA Tour have changed dramatically over the last year or so. We know that. We have seen it. We've heard it in the comments that he's made. So I'm not quite sure he's drawn such a hard or he will draw such a hard line with Tom as he did initially with Jon Rahm. We remember. I mean, that was a serious rift in the relationship between those two. I don't think he's that much of a hardliner now for the PGA Tour as he was then.

All right, Rex, a couple of quick hitters before we get out of here. And this edition of the golf channel podcast with Rex and lab, you and I were both at the TGL debut match last week in South Florida. And I think it was a surprise to most people.

The TGL drew a reported 919,000 average viewers for the debut match that we covered extensively on this here podcast as well as on Golf Channel. You surprised by that number? Was it way bigger than you thought? Was it marginally bigger than you thought? Was it less than you thought? Where do you sort of fall on that?

I'm surprised by that number, but then in retrospect, and you and I talked about this when we were at the opening night competition, with the full weight of ESPN behind it, and you started seeing it about two weeks in advance when ESPN started running commercials for those first matches and talking people through it and doing it in SportsCenter and doing commercials in the middle of

College football playoff games. These aren't little games. It's getting a lot of exposure. That was the full muscle of ESPN. And you saw that on display with that number, 912,000 or whatever the case may be. The amazing thing about that number, and I don't know nearly enough about the Nielsen's to talk on this for too long, but I know they outdrew the Duke basketball game by 200,000 that night.

which is pretty amazing. They well outdrew the match, which was the Las Vegas made for television event a few weeks prior to that. They drew Sunday night coverage of Maui for the century, which if you do an apples to apples comparison, if you do like a two hour window sort of in primetime, that's very impressive. And to make it even more so, I mean, I've talked with a lot of folks who,

at TGL the last few days since they had that match. I think what's coming this Tuesday, not just with Tiger Woods obviously making his debut, but I think there's going to be a lot more bells and whistles. I think they're going to improve the product even above and beyond what we saw last week. It's impressive.

It certainly is. And we have a few media friends, Josh Carpenter, sports business journal, James Colgan of golf.com thought that like anywhere from 700 to 750,000 would be like a reasonable expectation for TJL's debut match. So this is obviously better than those expectations. I would love to know,

the drop-off, if there was one, from hour one to hour two? You know, did folks check in and drop out? Did they stick around for the whole thing? You know, exactly what did they think of it? And I think, obviously, the viewership is expected to be up for the next one with Tiger Woods, as it is with all things Tiger Woods. It's certainly a promising number. And now with more word of mouth, I think it's reasonable to assume it could at least sustain for the time being.

And I think the thing is when you, because it was a blowout, I think to your point, the second hour probably didn't get as good as coverage. I was told that they ran hundreds of different simulations of 15 whole matches and they could count on one hand how many were blowouts. So I think last week was a bit of an aberration. I think we'll probably won't see that again this season. Yeah. And the funny thing was they had like the rehearsal match, uh,

And it actually came down. It was, it was tied going down the last hole. Imagine if that had happened after the debut match, it certainly could happen in week two. Second topic, Rex, the pizza tour said it's still monitoring the situation in regards to whether the Genesis invitational can be played next month at Riviera amid the devastating wildfires. The scenes are just absolutely unbelievable. Heart certainly goes out to all the folks in Southern California. If you were PG tour commissioner, Jay Monahan,

What would you do as a leader of the PGA tour? Oh, I wouldn't have it there. I mean, the option is play it somewhere else. And I've heard some other options. I could do it at Sherwood and thousand Oaks, which they played there before they could move it back to Palm Springs, which would be just a couple of weeks. It's not the best case scenario. I heard Torrey Pines, which that doesn't make a lot of sense to me to have two big events back to back. But I spoke with a member today at Riviera and he said, the club is fine. The golf course didn't receive any damage. The clubhouse hasn't received any damage, but,

Everything around it is devastated. I'm flying to Los Angeles tomorrow morning. I was actually going to try to drive by the golf course just to see, but this member told me they're still in evacuation mode. Really, people can't even get anywhere close to the golf course. You can't get into the community. Even if the golf course is fine, even if you can logistically pull it off, I think it would be such a drain on the resources of that community. I don't know how you have it there. Even, what is it, three weeks away right now? I just don't see how it happens. Yeah, it's hard to imagine...

that they could play it at Riviera amid a scene that looks like straight out of Armageddon. I also don't love the optics of the PGA Tour coming into town, having a glitzy signature event with a $20 million purse when so many people have lost so much. Sherwood, as you mentioned, makes a lot of sense. They had an event a couple years ago during COVID-19,

when they couldn't have it overseas, they brought it to Sherwood. It went off just fine. I know it's not ideal, but it's still a way to have a signature event with a marquee field and give back to the greater Southern California community. Yeah.

Last topic, Rex. Kevin Kisner was named an assistant captain for the U.S. Ryder Cup team, joining Webb Simpson and Brant Snedeker under first-time captain Keegan Bradley, who again played pretty well at the Sony Open back-to-back top 15 finishes for Captain Keegan. Do you think it's a good choice having Kis in the team room for what is the game's biggest event?

I think it's a good choice to have kids in any room, whether it's a team room or it's a bar room or clubhouse, whatever the case may be. He just makes things better. We spend enough time around him. I think he's going he's become the modern day Freddie Couples when it comes to that role where Freddie just showed up every year, whether it was the President's Cup or the Ryder Cup. But he didn't necessarily have much to do with.

the strategy of it all. He wasn't picking out parents. He wasn't huddling with Tiger Woods, trying to figure out who the captain's pick should be. He was just in there to keep the mood light. And I think that's really what kids is going to be really good at. And we've seen it on TV. I think we'll see it actually on Tuesday when he plays alongside Tiger Woods at the TGL match. I, I, he just has turned in to one of the best personalities and golf. And I'm just not saying that, but he's a colleague, but you did gloss over. And I was curious why we weren't going to talk more about this. If,

If I would have challenged you last week and made you make a bet that Keegan Bradley will qualify for this year's Ryder Cup team, he's made it clear that he won't make himself a pick. But if he qualifies, if he gets one of those automatic qualifier spots, and you're not very good at gambling, so I know I'm putting you on the spot, but if you were to put a number on it now, did it improve from last week to this week?

No, this is a golf tournament in which Keegan Bradley lost in a playoff in 2024. He's still like 18th in the U.S. Ryder Cup standings. Like it is going to be a monumental task for,

for him to finish among the top six, earn an automatic spot while dealing with all that he's going to have to be dealing with as the U.S. captain. Keep in mind too, Rex, like the longer that this goes on, the longer that he continues to put himself in contention, every single time he plays a golf tournament, he is going to be asked incessantly. It's not going to be about his 65 at Pebble. It's going to be how does this sort of affect your chances of making the team or have you wavered at all on your decision that you're not going to play if you would be a captain?

pick that is going to great on him. That is going to wear on him there. We have, we have decades of proof that when a player is named captain, their game goes in the tank. I don't expect Keegan Bradley, who's among the top 15 players in the world for his game to go in the tank, but it's just, it's really hard for me to imagine that he could be in a scenario where he finishes among the top six. All right. We asked for listener questions, Rex.

And we certainly got them. I'm really happy about this. Pony Express. This is a good question. Nice. Or more golfers are coming out of college golf and the college ranks ready. Will the tour become more of a young man's game or is 50 the new 40?

Oh, no, it's going to become a young man's game. It's not going to become. It's already become a young man's game. But fitness, health, nutrition, all that stuff. Yes. And there was an interesting conversation on tonight's broadcast, which I thought was interesting, where Webb Simpson, who is 39.

So it's not as though he's a man of a certain age. However, at 39, he has decided apparently he's going to dial back his schedule and only play 12 events. I'm not saying that more and more older players are going to do that, but I think the older players are going to have to pick their spots, this week being a primary example of that. The Sony Open, while I sort of lends itself to

the kind of ball striking that an older player could probably mitigate the distance gains that a younger player like a Nick Dunlap might have. But you look at what Nick Dunn did last year at the American Express where he

First player since Phil Mickelson to win on tour in decades as an amateur and then became the only player to ever win as an amateur and a professional on the PGA Tour. We're only going to start seeing this more and more. You know this better than I do, having covered the college game. They're just better prepared. They come out of college now. They're bigger, stronger, faster, and there's no intimidation factor.

Yeah, the kids are optimizing everything from speed, power, distance, basically to suit the modern game. Until that changes with the equipment rollbacks, nothing is going to change. It is most certainly a young man's game. Rex, you and I will be back with the Golf Channel podcast with Rex and Lav on Wednesday. You'll be at the American Express doing Golf Central duties. Real quick, what are you most looking forward to from the week at Amex?

Looking back on last year and Nick Dunlap, it was such a special week and I think it might have gotten glossed over a little bit because in the wake of that victory and you and I were probably as guilty as the next person, the conversation really turned to should he turn pro, should he not turn pro? It was very much a whirlwind season for him where he went into that slump. I mean, we talked a lot about the idea and then found his way to battle back out of it to sort of revisit that is going to be fun and to reaffirm.

sort of check in on what T. Lou just said. I think this season is going to feel so much different than any other season in the history of the PGA tour, because guys realize that the pressure is on right now. Normally you can start at Sony and go to Amex and sort of work your way lazily into the season. You can't do that under the new rules. Should certainly be a jam packed Wednesday episode. Tigers TGL debut you at the Amex.

Roy McIlroy, John Rahm, starting in Dubai. We'll be bringing it to you on Wednesday, wherever you get your podcast. Well, we did it. We made a podcast that appeared on television. I do not think we got canceled, but stay back next week just to make sure. In the meantime, you guys are the drill. NBCSports.com slash golf. You can find all of mine and Rex's content. In the meantime, thanks for listening. Thanks for the support. We'll talk to you guys next week. Reese's peanut butter cups are the greatest, but let me play devil's advocate here. Let's see. So,

No, that's a good thing. That's definitely not a problem. Reese's, you did it. You stumped this charming devil. When it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. With Indeed, don't search, match. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to Indeed data, and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast. If you need to hire, you need Indeed.

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