Just 'get over it' and move forward with Tour-PIF future?
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Hello and welcome into this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lav. I'm in Stanford, Connecticut. Just got done co-hosting golf today. Rex, you're in sloppy, soggy Torrey Pines where it is brutally cold, brutally windy. However, you do look well.

You're the Torrey Pines Lodge. It has been a very eventful day for you on site at the Genesis Invitational. Roy McIlroy talked to the media. We're certainly going to get into his comments, which are going to garner a lot of headlines. But you also just got done scrumming with the commissioner of the PGA Tour, Jay Monahan. Rex, what was your biggest takeaway from the commissioner's meeting with the media? As busy as I am today, I do want to point out right off the top, whoever coined the phrase that it's always sunny in San Diego, liar.

Lies. Not true. It's very cold. It's very windy. Not enjoyable at all. We were just here two and a half weeks ago. It also wasn't enjoyable then either. So apparently that's just a very... Move the event to June. This would never happen. Except for June's limit. Agreed.

A couple of things stand out. And I was just on golf central doing a quick recap on the scrum that the commissioner had with reporters. And he also met with a very mature K Dixon afterwards for really interesting live to take. I would suggest everyone go check that out, but a couple of things, obviously it focused on last week's meeting between commissioner Monahan, Adam Scott, who is a player director on the policy board and president United States, Donald Trump. It was in the oval office. Uh,

I was told by the commissioner that this was initiated by the tour. The tour reached out to the White House trying to get this meeting arranged. It lasted about 40 minutes in the Oval Office. And I was taken by the idea that to hear the commissioner describe that meeting, it was very much layered. So I was trying to drill down into sort of the minutia of it all. Was this really just about the Department of Justice investigation into the tour of possible antitrust violations? An investigation that's been going on for years now. It predates the

the framework agreement or was this more about the negotiations between the tour and the public investment fund? And the answer was frankly, yes, it involved everything. It was a very layered conversation. I was taken by a couple of things that the commissioner said about it. And he said, he kind of referenced the release that they sent out afterwards about the

This is one step closer to reunifying the game. And that's really the most important thing here. We can get in to all the nuts and bolts, the machinations of exactly how the financial terms are going to play out, exactly what the tour is going to look like, if and when the two sides come back together. But I think the commissioner...

really went to the president with a simple idea that this isn't good for either side, PGA Tour or Live Golf. This isn't a PGA Tour problem or Live Golf problem. This is a professional golf problem. And the only way to solve it is to find a way to bring the sides back together. So I think by and large, that's as optimistic as I have seen the commissioner on this topic in a long time. I'm very curious what your read on that is, Rex, because it was sort of assumed that

If the PGA Tour was going to the White House to sort of petition President Trump in person, it had to do with the Department of Justice. Let's rubber stamp this. Let's get this deal, at least the financial part, finalized and formalized. What about the reunification of the game? In what way could President Trump help that along?

I had a chance, and I just sent this to Fred, if he wants to put that quote up there so I don't misquote it here. But I asked Rory specifically about why he thought it was important that the tour was able to meet with the president. And Rory sort of drilled down to probably the most important point of why you would want Donald Trump involved. And that's not only can the president reach out to Yasser Al-Ramai, the governor of the Public Investment Fund, who has been at the center of these negotiations with the tour, but

He can reach out to Yasser's boss, who, of course, would be the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. And that carries a lot of weight when you can talk to not just the governor of the public investment fund on a very quick phone call, but also I'm going to be calling your boss about this in a few moments. Nothing motivates people. Always works. It always seems to work. And I'll actually answer both because, like I said, it was interesting how layered it was. On the Department of Justice front, it is fascinating that the president probably didn't even have to make a phone call on this one.

All that needed to happen is for who's ever in charge of this investigation over the DOJ to look down and see the headlines that, oh, the tour met with the president in the White House this week. Well, let's move this along. And I know that's not most people's version of the American justice system. And I understand that that's a much bigger conversation. But as it applies to golf and where we are right now, I think that itself is going to expedite these talks.

But more than anything, I think, and again, this goes back to what the commissioner told me, one step closer, but it is a big step. It certainly is. We'll get into what Roy McIlroy had to say. He has played golf with President Trump recently as the Tiger Woods on Sunday in South Florida. What else, Rex, was discussed? What was top of mind with Commissioner Monahan and his meeting with the press?

The commission was asked specifically about what would reunified game look like? It's the billion dollar question or multi billion dollar question that we all have and there were no details and I wouldn't expect that and I actually asked the commissioner point blank is the version of a potential agreement between the tour and the public investment fund that they submitted to the Department of Justice. Is that just the financial terms?

or is it the whole picture? Is this the financial terms and exactly what the sides are going to look like and how the two tours are either going to become one or remain separate or whatever it is professional golf's going to look like whenever this happens. And again, I'm assuming this is going to happen. It's still very much in the air. And I'm going to write this column after this. And it's something I think you and I touched on on the Sunday podcast. And I said it because I keep going back to Tim Fincham.

who was Jay Monahan's predecessor, his commissioner of the PGA Tour. And I don't know how many times people described him to me, people on the inside, on the know, as a benevolent dictator. And it always made my skin crawl a little bit because no one wants to hear that term. No one wants to think of Goff being controlled by one sort of omnipresent person who's pulling all the strings and calling all the shots. I've come around, though, on this particular subject, that Jay or whoever is going to be his replacement as essentially the CEO of the PGA Tour Enterprises

That person's going to have to be a benevolent dictator because you can sit and talk to 72 players in this field here at Troy Pines this week, and I would probably get 72 different versions of what they'd like to see the game become. The same thing would probably happen this week in Adelaide at the Live Golf event. I could ask all 52. Am I getting that right? They have 52 players in the field? No, I'm showing my ignorance. I apologize.

54. Thank you very much. I would ask all 54 players in that field, and they probably would have a vastly different version. You're never going to come up with a consensus. So for Monahan or whoever his replacement is to make this work, it's going to have to be, here's what we're doing. No more discussion. We're going to allow, and I think Rory touched on this, again, probably better than most people. When he was asked point blank, it was very simple in him. If you have any kind of exemption,

on the PGA Tour as we stand right now, whether that's winning a major or whether that's career money or whatever the case may be. You should be able to use that right now. And if you don't, then you should be able to try the different pathways that everyone else has access to to try to re-earn your tour card back. It's only going to make the tour better if Bryson comes back and Brooks comes back and John Robb comes back. The idea that you need to get a pound of flesh from those players, I think that should be a sale.

So I want to put a pin in that because I thought Rory's comments were unbelievable and it's certainly a lot to unpack. I want to go back to your point about Jay Monahan or whoever becomes the CEO of Peachtree Enterprises needing to be, in your words, a benevolent dictator. Isn't that the exact problem? Isn't that the exact lesson that was learned from the framework agreement in 2023 is that you cannot have

someone in Jay Monahan's position sort of acting solely for the benefit of himself and making sort of shadow deals? If there is not a consensus on the PG tour policy board, you know, how can you have someone above them then telling them, no, this is how it's going to go. That's how they got into trouble to begin with. That's how all these concessions have been made over the past couple of months. I certainly understand what you're saying, but I have a very hard time believing that

the players in the pizza tour policy board who are supposed to be right in charge of the competitive aspects, not the business aspects for the enterprises, like going along with that line of thinking.

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I'm with you. You and I come from a different age of journalism where we considered ourselves the fourth estate. And the idea of a dictator, benevolent or otherwise, makes my skin crawl. No, of course not. And in the age of player empowerment, which you and I have spent a lot of time talking about, not just in golf, but in all sports, you would think a benevolent dictator has no place in professional sports at all anymore. And by and large, I think that's right. This, however, is a completely different animal. I don't think any other sport has ever faced this kind of

of existential threat that Liv Goff has presented to professional golf, I don't think there's another option. I agree, and don't get me wrong, I think the player directors on the PGA Tour Enterprise Board of Directors will have a big say in what happens here, but the idea that the 16 PAC members or the 200 and something PGA Tour members are all going to have their voices heard, that's ridiculous. It's not going to happen. If that's going to be the case, then this deal is never going to happen because you're never going to...

or the consensus. My guess is Tiger Woods and Jay Monahan have an idea of what the tour should look like going forward if there is unification. And whatever that version is going to look like, and again, we press the commissioner on what that vision is, and he wouldn't give any details. But whatever that vision is, my guess is they're both on the same page, and that's where the game will go eventually because that's the only option. Do you get the sense, Rex, after talking to Roy McIlroy and Roy McIlroy's press conference yesterday,

that he has a different vision than it seemed like the direction the PGA Tour could be heading. It seemed like his comments to you and others was a direct shot at members of the PGA Tour policy board, particularly the line, quote, I think everyone has to get over it. He talked about some players being, quote, butthurt in the need for everyone, policy board members, PAC members,

regular PGA Tour members, live players, to let's move forward together for the good of the sport. Do you get a sense that Rory has grown frustrated potentially with what he has heard about what this is going to look like or maybe even the timeline? Well, I think what I'm saying here is just echoing those comments from Rory. I tend to believe that...

On the PGA Tour side, you're going to have those players who are quote-unquote butthurt. And I've spoken with plenty of them that don't feel like the players who went and joined live golf should be allowed to come back, at least without some sort of pound of flesh, whether that's a suspension or a fine or whatever the case may be. On the other side, I have spoken with live golf players. They feel like, nope, you're going to have to pass to come back. So you can see the golf in the middle of that. Like, there is no middle ground.

on that one. So I think in Rory's mind, he probably sees it more so from the SSG side of this. And it was fascinating to hear him talk about if he had a

a blank piece of paper. And if he was in the room with Tiger and the commissioner making these decisions, what would it look like? And he referenced the idea that SSG wants to have like a Formula One type global tour. And he's sort of referenced this different ways in the past. One is sort of taking what the football, the soccer model looks like in Europe, where it's sort of this pyramid. And at the top of the pyramid, you have the Champions League, and then it goes down to the Premier League, and then I'm going to show my ignorance here, but whatever the leagues are underneath them.

I feel like kickball has a lot of leads over there. I cannot help you whatsoever. Sorry. Thank you. I appreciate you being a good teammate the way you always are a good teammate on that front. But no, I think Rory again says it as well as anyone. Don't be butthurt on this. You have to get over it because there's no other option. If the players on the PGA Tour are really going to be angry and not want the live players to come back, we're just going to end up stuck at this stalemate and we

And we can all agree, most of us can agree, that this is not sustainable for either side. Yeah, and I think Roy made a great point that everyone has benefited from this golf divide. Players on the PGA Tour have been enriched in ways they never have before.

The advent of the signature events, $20 million purses. Scottie made, what, roughly $75 gazillion last year. It's not just the live golfers and the bonus structure they got and the contracts they got and now playing 14 times a year for guaranteed purses who have been the ones who have been enriched by this. Everyone is benefiting. And Rory's point is now...

Since everyone is in this advantageous position, it's time to look big picture. It's time to have some vision. It's time to now sort of get together and create a product that is compelling. And his point, which I think is his strongest point, Rex, is that once this financial component is finalized, you have a guaranteed way to bolster and boost PGA Tour events. That is to offer spots to live golfers, whether it's Bryson DeChambeau, Jon Rahm,

Terrell Hatton, Brooks Koepka, name your fighter who you would want. There will be that opportunity to add them to PGA Tour fields. You have to make that work, and you have to make it quickly, or you're going to risk alienating the golf fans even further.

And I will say this. If I felt Rory was aggravated about anything when it comes to his relationship with the tour, he was asked, which I thought was kind of amusing. We were about to meet with the commissioner and we turned it on him. What would you like to ask? And he sort of mulled it for a while. And he goes, what are we going to do with the one and five?

$35 billion, which is no small question, but it's a very good question to come from someone who should be on the inside and have an idea. The investment that SSG has put into the tour, and that was last year that they did that, the tour is still trying to figure out what to do with that money. And it's been almost a year now since that investment came.

So there are a lot of things right now that are very much in limbo based on how is this going to work out? How are the negotiations? Where are we going to land a year or two years from now? And I can tell you, hearing Rory talk about where we're headed, hearing the commissioner talk about where we're headed. I had a long conversation with Gary Woodland, who's a new PAC member this year, about where we're headed.

And I've said this before, 2026, I truly believe it's going to be a similar year for the PGA Tour. And I think it's going to look vastly different than what we see this year and previously. Certainly hope so. It just seems like these parallel tracks, Rex, is unsustainable, especially when you have events like we have even this week. You know, you have a signature event.

Tiger Woods was supposed to be playing, but instead, San Xander Shoffler, this is the best the PGA Tour can possibly offer. It's going up against what has been the biggest and most successful event on Live Golf, which is Live event in Adelaide in Australia. You sort of fast forward to the summer. You're going to have the FedEx Cup playoffs and the PGA Tour going up directly against the closing stretch of Live Golf. You look at the ratings, 2.9 million for Phoenix.

30 to 50,000 for live golf. It makes you wonder like, what the heck are we doing here? Like a, a, a partnership could benefit both sides. If I think it's more importantly, if the PJ tour side allows that to happen, I think we're all still optimistic that at the end of this long road could be really cool. Whether you have this sort of global tour that feeds back into the regular PJ tour and,

you know, it stretches globally, big purses, guaranteed fields. Like I think the potential is still there, but boy, you sure hope it's going to be worth the aggravation that we've had over this past couple of years. What else Rex stood out to you and what Roy McRoy had to say? It seemed to be a pretty spirited statement.

Press conference there at Torrey Pons. Are you still quoting 30-year-old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now. It pays to discover. Learn more at discover.com slash credit card based on the February 2024 Nelson report.

No, he kind of danced around a lot of different issues. And like he is the spokesperson, usually when it comes to all things PGA Tour, he was asked about pace of play, which I thought his answer was as fascinating as I've heard others sort of repeat it. The idea being that, sure, we can talk about it. We've been talking about it now for as long as the tour has been around. Shaving 15 minutes off a round of golf on the PGA Tour is going to be difficult.

It's going to take a lot of new things. It's going to take a new way sort of placing. It's going to take a new way for players to think about how they should play golf. And it's not going to make that big of a difference. Because if we go from five and a half hour rounds to five hour and 15 minute rounds, I don't think anyone's going to notice or care. So that one seems to be a non-starter.

when it comes to a lot of players. And look, the pack and the policy board are going to continue to look into it. But there is no magic wand here. If there is, it would have been discovered a long time ago. And he was also asked specifically about the memos from JT and a little bit Charlie Hoffman that one seemed to take a shot at Rory. But he agreed with the basic concept, the idea that the tour players as owners, as partial owners of their own tour now, you can earn equity in this tour. You do need to take responsibility.

And he was asked specifically about, I come and speak with you guys, the media, every single week. And he goes, I'm very handsomely rewarded. That was his word.

for that. I play on a PG, I'm paying for $20 million. He's making so much more money now than he did in 2019. Now, he also said that's in large part because of the golf, but he also understands that there is a responsibility and it has to go two ways. And I think the memo from JT and Charlie to a certain degree is sort of that message. But I think the bigger deal is just how he envisions, Rory envisions the tour moving forward as someone who was so strident

on the other side for so long. And he actually made the comment that I probably misspoke a lot of times. He made it clear. Still not a fan. 54 whole team golf. Still doesn't think the concept works. But he acknowledges very, very clearly that me as a professional, I'm much better off because of it now. And now we need to find a way to fix what was broken.

Apparently President Trump, per Roy McIlroy, is not a fan of the live golf format either. That was one of the revelations that he made. I kind of see where President Trump is coming from. It does seem like a missed opportunity. If you shorten the live season, if you put the focus on match play, taking what is supposed to be this team format and actually incorporating the teams and having head-to-head, I think it could be really cool. Roy did say that, quote, I sure hope not.

When asked whether he would want to sort of cross over and play live golf, which is probably not what the live side or the piff side wants to hear in those negotiations. That's enough, Rex, about tour politics, bureaucracy, future of the game. How about playing wise? What has stood out to you over the past couple of days as we get ready for the Genesis Invitational?

How different this golf course is going to play just the way it was less than three weeks ago, two and a half weeks ago when Harris English won. I actually had a chance to catch up with Harris yesterday and sort of walked a couple of holes with him. And he pointed out that it doesn't feel like they've cut the rough here since they played here last with the Farmers Insurance Open. They've gotten a lot of rain. You're going to see it. It's going to be soft. If you remember when he won the Farmers Insurance Open, it was firm and fast. And the winds were just brutal and really, really difficult conditions. It's going to be kind of the opposite this week. It almost feels like pebble.

and rory made that connection as well like this is going to be a driving contest this week you can't play from the rough and it's such a long golf course i do think it's fascinating and i asked harris i said you can make a bit of history this week do you know what it is he kind of looked at me weirdly and i go you can become the third player that won on the pga tour one on the same course in the same season twice

And he kind of thought about it and goes, yeah, I can. And he asked, who are the other two? Well, that one's pretty easy. Well, this is a good trivia question. Tiger Woods has got to be one of them. Yes. Tiger Woods is at least one of them. What was the second one?

Well, it would have been 2008 when Tiger won here earlier in the season, the Farmers Insurance Open right here at 25. And then, of course, won that great U.S. Open against Rocket Media in a Monday playoff. And then in 2000 at Pebble Beach, Tiger won the AT&T earlier in the year. And then, of course, just slapped the field at the U.S. Open Pebble Beach.

You can go into some rare category, go into some rare air. And then it was something I think that Damon asked me when I was on with you guys this week. And I had to go look it up. There's only been three times when the same course is ranked within the top 10 for difficulty for the entire season. Those I'm sorry, two times, those other two times, 2000 Pebble Beach, 2008 Torrey Pines. It's probably going to happen again this year because this golf course is going to play tough this week. And it already ranks as the toughest course this year on the PGA Tour from a few weeks ago at the Farmers Insurance Open.

Who's the favorite this week? I don't mean what do the odds makers tell you. I mean, what does the Rex Hoggard index tell you? Is it Scotty Scheffler who's coming off, to quote Fred, a, quote, meltdown? Or did he unravel during the back nine 41 at TBC? Scott's on the drop, not just outside the top five, but drop outside the top 20. Is it Roy McIlroy?

coming off the win at Pebble Beach. We have not seen him since then. Is it Kyle Morikawa, who was supposed to play at the Farmers Insurance Open a couple weeks ago, instead had the WD with the stomach virus? Is it Ludwig Oberg, who was in the driver's seat a couple weeks ago until he too got sick? What's your forecast telling you? It's funny that you're blaming Fred for the meltdown. I'm pretty sure that was actually your idea. Because I even questioned you on it. Those savvy viewers who watched on Monday morning, I was like, meltdown?

I'm really going to call it meltdown. Certainly, Scottie's going to be on top of my list, despite how he played last week. Not sure if I'm going to label that a meltdown, but he certainly struggled across the board statistically. He unraveled. I'll even take unraveled. I just don't know about meltdown. He certainly struggled in the statistical categories that we expect him to be dominant in. I would lean towards Rory for the reason I just pointed out. It feels like a couple of weeks from a few weeks ago, you were there, and you know the way that golf course was playing. I think it could be a similar test.

this week. Now, that being said, I'm not sure Rory particularly loves this golf course the way some of the other top players do, so that would be interesting to me. He doesn't play it very often. I think he said today the last time he was here was for the Open a few years ago, so he's not a normal person that likes to come out here and play this, and I like Lube. I think he could be an interesting one. I think Colin Morikawa, for the obvious reasons that he brought this up yesterday at a

It's long iron play, man. If you can talk about driving all you want, you're going to have a lot of long irons into these greens, and it's the one thing that he probably does better than almost anyone else on the tour. I'm going to turn this on you because you've been asking questions now for three days, and I'm going to give you a breather on this. And I know you went through Morikawa's transcript, and I was taken by the one thing. He was asked a lot about slow play yesterday. But the one thing that he actually turned on, and we could probably save this as a love it or love it segment,

a segment later when we do Monday's show. But he turned it actually kind of on the broadcast part when it came to pace of play. And he said, if you show just more shots and you did them more in succession, people at home at least aren't going to feel like it's slow play. I kind of call it bupkis on that. Because, okay, you can bupkis on that.

You can probably blame the broadcast partners and they could probably do a better job of maybe covering slow play a little bit. But a five and a half hour round is still a five and a half hour round. But to Callum's point, what's the goal here? What are we trying to do? Is it just for optics? Is it just so the PGA Tour doesn't say that we have five and a half hour rounds? Unless the PGA Tour rounds continue to spill over past what is typically a 6 p.m. Eastern time broadcast window like

How would we ever know? And the broadcast can do a better job of not showing players going through their aim point routine. It can show a player who is deliberating a club change and a win switch, whatever the case may be. I do think the pace in which they're showing shots...

would at least give the appearance that they're playing faster. Again, viewers at home, you and I, who are just watching on our TVs, have no idea what the pace is. We just know that we're expected to finish at 6 o'clock, then we can go continue on with our night, have dinner, put the kids to bed, whatever the case may be.

Yeah, I think it's a multifaceted issue, which is why it's easy to say we should implement a shot clock. We should ban aim point. Apparently Colin wants to, in defense of his aim point brethren, wants to get rid of long putters because it might be anchoring. Like there are so many different facets to this, but it basically just comes down to, yes, we could probably shave long

a little bit of time. We can play a little bit of fat. We can play a little bit faster. But the past two weeks in the PGA Tour Rex, they've both finished before 6 p.m. Eastern time when they were supposed to be done. So it's a topic that has existed for years and

And eons, it will continue to exist. Can the PGA Tour make improvements? Absolutely. I'd love to see them start naming and shaming. I'd love to see them publicize the strokes. I'd love to see them be more stringent and more harsh in terms of their penalties with strokes or FedExCup docking, whatever the case may be. That would put them in line with other sports that has sort of publicized some of the infractions of the players. Would love to see all that. But it's not really going to matter anymore.

If in the long run, the broadcast would just be a little bit crisper and faster paced. And I'm not disagreeing with you on that. And like, that's up to the broadcast partners and they can certainly change things up a little

and be a little bit more deliberate about, I don't need to see a player go through this 40-second routine before he gets a shot. Yes, those are all things you can change. I guess the part I didn't like about this is you're taking a topic, and I'm not calling Colin Moore Kyle a slow player. He is not a slow player. But as the spokesman on this particular issue, the idea that you're saying that, no, no, no, I don't want to fix my problem. I want you to fix my problem.

That's what bugs me. And again, I'm not talking specifically about Colin Moore-Cowell, but that's the message. But I think it's Colin's messaging. Colin says he has no problem publicizing that. He recognizes that he's not the problem. Are there players in the Peach Tour who are the problem? Yes. Should those players be outed? Yes. Should those players be penalized? Yes.

That's a separate argument. Other factors could also at least improve the appearance. This is not a topic that's dominating the discussion we get on the PGA Tour. It's such a circular topic. And again, this goes back eons. Across the decades, we've had this conversation. It's never going to change. And I feel like this is almost flooding the zone when it comes to everything else that's going on in the sports. And I don't care about pace of play right now. That's something I can tackle five years from now when the game has been reunited and we're in a calmer, safer place.

I mean, you probably can't fix it altogether. Just make improvements. Small, minute improvements would certainly be progress, at least on a front in which we have not seen much progress over the past half century on the PGA Tour. All right. That is going to do it for this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lab. As scheduled, we'll be back on Sunday night for a full recap of

of a Genesis Invitational. Rex has promised, now that he is equipped with a MiFi, to go hang out on the cliffs near the Pacific. Look at that thing. The Wi-Fi signal has never been stronger. It figures to be a very jam-packed 52 minutes of power that Rex and I will be bringing you on Sunday night on YouTube, as well as Monday, 9 a.m. Eastern Time,

on golf channel make sure to get in your questions for the show the listener topics if you want to be on the show give me a hashtag ask lav in the comments we'll be sure to put that in the show all right thanks for listening thanks for the support as you guys know mcsports.com slash golf for all latest news notes and updates from rex on site at tory pines we'll talk to you guys on sunday night

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