PGA Tour must address its slow-play problem
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Hello and welcome to this edition of the Golf Channel Podcast with Rex and Lab. And Rex, you've been gone for two weeks, first in Palm Springs to cover the American Express and then in Stanford to co-host golf today. Did your family even recognize you when you walked back into the door in Longwood, Florida? No one was here when I got home Friday night. Perfect. No one's been home. No one missed me. Oh, Mr. Empty Promises came back. Great. Good to see you again. It's normal. It's the normal.

That's perfect. It's great to have you home. I'm actually on the road starting this week at the AT&T Pebble Beach, the first time that I've covered in 2025. Looking forward to getting back out and covering the PGA Tour in person. You and I used to cover...

Torrey Pines and the Farmers Insurance Open almost every year back in the Tiger days when he sort of made that his annual launching point for the new year. And we'll get to that in a second. The field that has sort of been MIA ever since Tiger no longer made that an annual stop. But Harris English is this year's winner of the Farmers Insurance Open. Go Dawgs. What stood out to you as Harry became now a five time winner this

on the PGA Tour. It was a pretty hard-fought battle at Torrey Pines in some pretty difficult conditions. It's such a hard golf course. Two hard golf courses, actually. It was amazing that the North course almost played as hard as the South course, I think, on Friday afternoon, which that never happens. The North course has always been two, three, four strokes easier than the South course. But you got the brutal conditions. They are the Santa Anas. It's the same winds.

that have been ravaging Los Angeles. And you get an idea. I just, I was out of curiosity. I had to go look. You want to venture a guess on this one. When was the last time a winner on the PGA tour with a single digit under par total? It was last year. I'll help you out there. I'll give you a little, I'll give you an assist. The U S open.

You're close. The Open Championship. So it's been a couple of months now, and I do think it's fun, and I do want to get into Harris because I did enjoy watching him sort of go head-to-head with a couple of different players coming down the stretch. The thing that really stood out to me is in Maui, we sort of tackled the idea that, is it too easy?

35 under par. Hideki just seemed to just absolutely tear that golf course up. And I think both of us agreed with the idea that, you know what? Soon enough, we're going to be at Riviera and Toy Pines and Bay Hill and the Players' Championship and all these tough golf courses. It's going to even itself out. This is an example of that. It certainly is. And look, I think Harris English is certainly worth

applauding the way that he played over those last 13 holes in particular, shooting one under par, led the field and scrambling. It seemed like every time he was out of position, he got back into position and then was able to save himself with a pretty hot putter. You'd look at sort of his career trajectory. He's 35 years old. He had an injury, Rex, sort of late 2021 into 2022. And keep in mind, like Harris English had a big 2021. He won the century.

He won the Travelers Championship, which is now a signature event on the PGA Tour. He was in the mix at the U.S. Open, which was at Torrey Pines as well. And then he had the hip issue, underwent surgery, which is for a golfer a pretty big deal to have surgery on your hip. And we're just now seeing Harris English sort of rediscover the form that has made him one of the most consistently and successful players on the PGA Tour over the past decade. Justin Parsons has him locked in. I don't think there's any reason why Harris English at this point in his career

you know, can't pick off a big title, whether it's a player's championship, whether it's a major championship, I think the U S open in particular sort of fits his style of play particularly well plotting good short game, a good putter. I could see him playing his way onto a cup team, either this year in the Ryder cup or, or president's cup. I still think there's plenty of good golf left in Harris English's future. And I think he proved that,

on Saturday at Torrey Pons. I think that's why you saw some of the emotion as well, because it has been such a difficult couple years to get back to the spot.

And I was actually surprised by the emotion. That's not quite the bulldog I was expecting. And I'm talking about the bulldog university of Georgia style bulldog. I loved it. It is. I love the idea of how unflappable he was over the course of that fun around. Those were really tough conditions on a, on a really, really difficult golf course. We're going to talk about the Genesis invitational moving to, to the South course at Torrey pines because it has a pedigree it's proven itself and it's held up over time, even since 2008. And of course tiger won the U S open there, but,

The part that I really appreciate for Harris is, and you pointed it out, how he never seems to get too high or too low, and that's on the golf course and off the golf course. I think it probably would have been really easy having that hip surgery to go into a dark place. I mean, you never really know as a professional athlete if you can rebound from this, and this one's tough. I mean, I put this one right alongside a microdosectomy or any of the other serious surgeries that a PGA Tour player can have, and you're right. I mean, the work that he and Justin Parsons do

have put in. It's very impressive. But you look at the way he did it, and you pointed out his first in the field and scrambling 22 of 27. He got up and down at Toy Pines. That's an amazing stat at that golf course. It's not as though they were playing in Palm Springs last week where you can't get up and down. You can end up in some really nasty lies, and he found a way to get around. He was third and putting, but he drove the ball awful.

on Saturday during the final round. He hit four fairways in the final round on a U.S. Open type venue, which you're not supposed to do. And so that was pretty fun. To your point about the Ryder Cup, I will point out those who stuck around for the end of the CBS telecast. If you saw Harris walking from the 18th cream to score and he was talking with a gentleman with a beard and glasses, that's Scotty Vale and he's Keegan Bradley's caddy. And you,

I've really heard him say something about the Ryder Cup and Harris's response was, I'd love to be on that team. And you heard Scottie say, someone else would love to have you on that team as well. I think you're right. He'd be such an asset this year. We're going to have this for the next eight months, aren't we? Like whenever anyone wins the PGA Tour, he could definitely be an asset to the U.S. Ryder Cup team, right? Like we're just going to continue having this over and over again. You mentioned the golf course off the top there. And this is such a polarizing golf course for...

for fans of golf. Like the golf course geeks absolutely hate it.

But for whatever reason, like I always enjoy watching the golf at Torrey Pines. I understand this was not, you know, front of the seat viewing. It was not particularly gripping theater. But Torrey Pines is brutish. It's long. It's sort of monotonous in the sense that you've got bunkers on both sides of the fairway. If you miss the fairway and you miss the bunkers and you've got some really long tangly rough, if you miss the greens and you're either in a bunker or you're in really long rough, like

That is a championship test. And I would much rather these guys be tested and be penalized for poor shots than

shots than see the birdie fest like we saw at Kapalua earlier this year. That is not how you separate the players who are playing the best. And yes, Harris English missed a bunch of fairways in the final round at Torrey Pines, but he also put on a pretty dazzling short game display with a variety of different shots, a variety of different clubs. You saw him take out a fairway wood from off the green. You saw him for a pitch with a 56 from 70 yards to get up and down on 12. Like he was doing it a variety of different ways. And I don't, it just feels like,

like a more hard earned victory when you have a challenging golf course like this, as opposed to either Kapalua or certainly some of the track meets that we're going to see throughout the summer. I think Ludwig said it best this week when he was talking about, I can't wait to get to the South course. He called it big boy golf. And that's exactly what it is. And I will say to your point, you're right. It's a very polarizing golf course. And I just want to be the first to go on record here and point out that given an option, I would play the North course,

Oh, 100%. If I lived in San Diego, I don't think I would ever step foot on the South course because it's not for me or you or people with double-digit handicaps. Big boy golf. No, we play like munchkin golf. Put us on munchkin golf.

golf. It's a, it's a, it's, it's a big ballpark. And I think that's what they wanted to do when they redesigned it for the 2000 USA to open it. Keep in mind, put yourself back in the time machine and remember what was going on heading into that open when they got it, it would have been in the early two thousands. And the idea was we need to tiger proof this. Like he is destroying golf courses. The irony is he ended up winning there anyway, uh, at Monday playoff. But that was the epitome, I think of trying to tiger proof. I

You know, when you go through the litany of change and everything that Tiger forced the game to do, that's probably the best example because they built a golf course that not only was going to stand up to Tiger Woods in 2008, but now it's 2025.

And the game has evolved so much. And we're going to get into this a little bit later about the rollback. And the athletes have gotten bigger, stronger, faster. And we have 35 under winning golf tournaments now. Not at Torrey Pines, not on the South course. I will give it credit again. Not my brand of vodka. I don't want to go out there and play it on a regular basis. But certainly when you look at it, I'm with you. I love watching it. You're watching it in primetime on the East Coast.

It's not quite as cold as it was up in Connecticut, home in Florida, but it's still pretty cold. And the views are, I think, second to none. I love Pebble as much as the next guy, but I actually like the views at Toy Ponds better. So I'm with you. I love watching it. I'd much rather watch this brand of golf than what we saw at Maui. Yeah, I think in a perfect world, every PGA Tour event, the final score would be somewhere between, what,

12 and 15 under par. It's, it's really hard to achieve. There's different conditions, time of year, weather. Like I, there's a lot that goes into it, but I think picking golf courses that really challenge it and put a place, a premium on,

you know, really controlling your golf ball. I think that's the direction the PGA tour should probably head with its direction. Yes. You don't want to play this every single week, but I do love the occasional slug fest. What else sort of stood out? I know it was a, it was a bit of a slog in terms of pace of play. I think about five and a half hours. Once again, at least this was understandable. Like it was cold. It was windy. The golf course is more challenging than PGA West, but once again, at least Rex, it seems like pace of play is a hot topic.

on the PGA Tour. You even had Dottie Pepper, the on-course reporter for CBS, saying that something needs to be done in terms of players picking up the pace. And I loved what she said. And I was kind of angry with you. I think this was last week. Well, you kind of dragged me into a pace of play.

And there's nothing I hate more than a pace of play conversation only because I've been doing them for 20 plus years. And there's just, it's not going to change. And actually I went into the regs, but it has to, it has to change. And it, well, golf is changing. Viewing habits are changing. It has to change.

Well, and I think Dottie actually inspired me, like touched on something that I hadn't thought about. The word she used was respect. That if you're the one causing the problem, and we can start pointing fingers now, but if you're the one causing the problem, you're showing an outrageous disrespect for your playing competitors,

for the fans, for the media partners, for everyone involved. To your point, it took three hours for that final group to play nine holes. That's unacceptable. I don't know. And I think maybe it's probably more jarring because of what we're seeing at TGL, because we're seeing a two-hour product of condensed golf with a shot clock and everything that goes into it. And you see a version of golf where

that at least on that level, as far as the paces, is much more palatable than what you have on the PGA Tour, to be quite frank. Because at the end of two hours, you know you're going to have some sort of conclusion as opposed to three hours to play nine holes. So I'm with you. And I think we batted some things around. And I still go back to, I don't know how you can...

Like, look, there's some logistical implications here about trying to put a shot clock on a golf course. And we talked about maybe you give players a timeout or two timeouts over the course of a round in case you end up in a bad situation. But I'm with you. I think you have to do something because what we've seen, not just the last few weeks, not this season, what we've seen 20 plus years now is simply unacceptable.

And TGL has sort of underscored the point that these guys can hit golf shots under 40 seconds. They're just refusing to do so on the biggest stage on the PGA tour. I think that's sort of where the frustration is. You're, you're, you're asking golf fans to,

to tune in and have their attention, not be distracted by anything else for five and a half hours. And in this day and age, that's probably too much of an ask. It has to be condensed. And to, to Dottie Pepper's point, you have to show respect for your, not just your playing partners, but the product fans who are both watching in person and at home, that something has to be done. And I think we should all be encouraged that based on what we've seen,

Yeah, I think the folks in the PGA Tour probably need to take an even harder and longer look at this. And it's jarring when you have Novak in the final group and he's hitting before the cameras can get to him a lot of times. And you realize that, oh, he's not the problem. Like, I don't know who the problem is, but it's clearly not him. And we've been to enough golf tournaments, you and I, where if you're walking with a threesome on a Thursday morning, you can immediately point out that, oh, he's the problem.

Like, that's the guy. And the tour knows. I mean, they can keep time parsed. They have a list of the top five and the bottom five on the PGA Tour. And that list is constantly updated every single week. So if they wanted to be proactive, if they wanted to do something outside the box, they certainly could. I just don't think there's enough fortitude there.

Shame, shame, shame, shame, shame, shame. I want to see public shaming. It's like the greatest deterrent ever is publicly shaming these players. Make it a stat. And that was my argument when they first started talking about doing this, the top five and the bottom five. Like just publish the whole list and just let everyone on Monday morning scroll down to the bottom and be like, yep, I knew it. He's at the bottom of the list.

And that's going to like, it's going to create a situation where you have fans with pitchforks. And if, if, if you know who the slow players are, like they're probably going to get dog. Like that is, I think it is a, that is a guaranteed way.

to speed them up is to publicly humiliate them as a slow player and have sort of the reaction seep out until they change their behavior. And until the pace of play increases on the PGA tour, what else sort of stood out Rex, the Saturday finished, they've, they've done this now for a couple of years. We've seen the ratings over the first couple of PGA tour events. I personally like the move.

from Wednesday to Saturday and would sort of hope that they would lean into this direction. You don't compete with football for the FedExCup playoffs. Why would you compete for the first month of the season? What say you?

I'm with you. I should actually find the text you sent, the angry text that you just seemed to fire off randomly to me over the course of the week. But I'm 100% with you. I like the Saturday finish just because Sundays and this particular Sunday where the conference championship games are going on, you're never going to go head to head with that. No one wants to go head to head with that. Look at Live Golf. They finally came to that conclusion.

That, nope, we're not going to do this. Like, we're just going to lose that battle every single time and it's not worth doing. Now, I don't know if I want to see every tournament at least to start the season finishing up on Saturdays. I think you probably need to have some sort of adjustments. I always go to Scottsdale because they seem to have found a good niche on Sunday of Super Bowl Sunday where they know that people are showing up.

And they're pre-gaming, getting ready for the Super Bowl later that afternoon. I'm fine with that. But, yeah, I think it's a move in the right direction. And you're right. The PGA Tour moved heaven and earth to change the schedule around to make sure that they didn't go head-to-head with football. Why would you do it now? How about the field for the Farmers Insurance Open? We used to double cover the Farmers Insurance Open. Now this was really lacking in terms of – I think it was both like Solana Beach and the Fish Takas.

I see no lies, but there was like, there was, there was a flu going around that had some WDs. Xander Shoffley's the hometown kid is dealing with a, with a rib issue. Calamara cow wasn't feeling like himself. Uh, will Zalatorre's WD, uh, a couple hours before his first round tee time. Obviously I think it was influenced the field by the rumors that have now been, uh,

sort of made official that they were going to be coming back to Torrey Pines in a couple of weeks for the Genesis Invitational. I can see the point, like why would I play in 144 man event with a cut on two different golf courses with slow pace of play when I can go play in a couple of weeks time at the same golf course, just on the South course, which the players probably enjoy more guaranteed payday guaranteed FedEx cut points. Like I get it. I totally understand it, but again,

This is probably not a situation that farmers likes, which is going to be up in 2026 after that deal. This to me, Rex, is a, is a tournament, a location, a golf course. I wouldn't mind seeing at a different point in the PGA tour schedule.

Move it to the summer. It certainly works fine when it's a U.S. Open venue. That's sort of a way to beef up what I believe is the weakest part of the PGA Tour schedule. To me, the Farmers Insurance Open should move around in the schedule and sort of highlight it in a different way than it is right now. I think Charlie Hoffman actually touched on it really well last week when he talked about it. And Charlie Hoffman's from San Diego, so this is obviously near and dear to his heart. But he talked about how the community really took Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson for granted.

Because you had them for the better part of three decades where they were both from the area. They both wanted to play that particular tournament. It wasn't a signature event. There was no other reason to go there other than those two came from Southern California and Torrey Pines.

was important to them. And now you're in a situation where, and I think it's a combination of a couple of different things. To your point, Charlie Hoffman kind of alluded to the idea, and I've alluded to it a couple of times on this podcast. I think 2026 is going to be a transformative year for the PGA Tour. I can imagine a scenario where the schedule looks vastly different than what we have right now. I always use the analogy that if I slid a piece of paper to you and told you to come up with a better PGA Tour schedule,

Not this schedule. Tell me when it's best. Tell me when is the best time of year and the best for the schedule and the best for the TV and the fans to play at Torrey Pines or Pebble Beach. Because it's not this time of year. We all know that. I mean, we saw the weather this week. And the weather next week at Pebble Beach could be just...

However, I'm going to deviate on this a little bit and I'm going to color outside the lines because I've made it perfectly clear to Johnson Wagger that I fully intend to start a beef between our podcast, the Golf Channel Podcast with Rex and Lav, and Gary Williams and his crew at five clubs, which includes Johnson Wagger. And here's the reason why.

I really don't have anything against them. This is just raging jealousy. And Goldie, this is your cue to put this up. I was on the Golf Today desk last week, along with Johnson, a couple of days. And you can see that hat right there. And that hat...

I thought would look good on my head. And as we can all agree, I don't think- You look like Hannibal Lecter. I don't know if that's the way I would go. I just have a very small head and it just doesn't fit. And then Johnson took it from me like a bully and put it on and it looked perfect on his big giant melon. And that's when I decided that I knew that we needed to have some sort of beef. So this is going to start my beef with five clubs. And-

And the reason is because Johnson Wagner on golf today, this week, I'm getting back to our subject on golf today, this week made the point that Torrey Pines is suffering, not because of all the reasons that we just pointed out or the Charlie Hoffman pointed out because of TGL.

And if anybody wants to go back and check the tape, because it was golf today, we're working in small windows. I just kind of glared at him thinking that's ridiculous. Like, no, they have figured out the schedules. It's four man teams. Only three players play like it has nothing to do with that. Torrey's field strength has been going down over the last several years. And so there it is. I disagreed with Johnson Wagner. I'm going to continue to disagree with Johnson Wagner from now until the end of time.

Yeah, I had no idea where you're going with that, but I'm glad we came to this conclusion that that was an idiotic take that we can both disagree with. You said that 2026 Rex is going to be a transformative year for the PG tour. If that's true, they better hurry up and make a deal because 2026 is now just about 11 months away. I don't think this isn't...

About the deal, I think this is separate from the deal. Or it could include it, but I don't even think that's what's involved here. I just think the PGA Tour is taking a hard look at everything they do. We've heard about these fan surveys that they're digging into and what they're finding that the fans actually want, which...

At the top of the list, what we just talked about is pace of play. We talked about where maybe certain events should fall on the schedule. You're talking about the flow of the schedule. We're talking about the one thing that Johnson did say that I will agree after I just said I'm going to disagree with him. No one has ever accused the PGA Tour of not having enough golf.

No one's ever said, man, I wish there was an extra PGA Tour event this week. Not to be disrespectful, but that's just the fact of the matter is. So maybe this schedule includes a lot of different moving parts. But one of the things is just fewer events. And you take the existing events and you turn the contrary tour schedule, the secondary tour, into something bigger and better as well. So there are some ideas. This is mutually exclusive to what may or may not happen with the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia.

I do think that the PGA Tour has never done scarcity well, and having a trimmed down PGA Tour schedule would actually, by contrast, be better.

for the pj tour i know it's always been about playing opportunities i know it's been about well if there if there's a week on the calendar we need to have a pj tour event i think they would actually benefit by having fewer events and in fact it would be stronger a couple things before we we head to our our break wrecks player wise like i thought this was an interesting week for ludwig oberg who is a 36-hole co-leader

had the flu or at least flu-like symptoms and really tailed off, ended up finishing in a tie for 42nd. I thought this was sort of a breakout performance for Aldrich Potgeeter, the 20-year-old South African who has a ton of game, a ton of potential, and he had certainly a learning experience there.

on Saturday for the final round. And I thought it was a big week for the two amateurs as well. Luke Clanton finishing as a top 15 again, Jackson Coven, the star for Auburn finishing, excuse me, making the cut and now getting even closer to locking up a PGA tour card through the PGA tour university accelerated program, which of those sort of storylines and, and sort of player driven stories stuck out to you most.

And I only because I had a chance to talk with Jay Jones, his coach at Florida state and to your point, making the cut earned him one more point. So now it's two points away from 20, which would give him a PGA tour card and just the level of,

There is no wavering on what Luke wants to do and what the people around him want to do. Like the idea that, okay, maybe he could have turned pro and certainly Blades Brown last week at the American Express is an example of the avenue you can take. But when it comes to Luke, it's clear he's going to spend the next few weeks leading up to the NCAA championship winning.

Just really playing college golf, resting, getting his game ready. So as soon as NCAAs are over, there is a confidence that he'll get those final two points and he'll have his tour card. I love the idea that you don't have to rush.

And I'm not even, this isn't an indication on Blades because I think I almost went back for the idea that as long as he's comfortable with the idea that this is going to be a three or four year process, I don't have a problem with him turning pro at 17 years old. However, when you look at what Luke is doing and you look at the success he's already had on the PGA Tour and you separate it out from the rest of the schedule and this is what I'm going to do. So I'm at my absolute best in June when I do get my tour card and I can hit the ground running. I love that plan.

I'm surprised that Luke Clinton hasn't already locked up his PG tour card. The guy has five. I think he will. He has five top 15 finishes in 10 starts, but I'm just saying like five top, five top 15 finishes on the PG tour. You'd be finishing inside the top 70, maybe even the top 50, depending on where those fell in those tournaments. Like that's the sort of success rate that he has had in the limited spot starts. I think actually think Rex, the other amateur is,

Is more interesting in sort of the big picture and what he stands for. Jackson Coven is a sophomore at Auburn. He already has 18 points in the PG tour accelerator program. You need 20 to get your PG tour card. He has gotten the majority of his points through college accolades. And once he gets to 20, he could turn pro or he could defer it.

Jackson Coivin has already come out and said that he sort of wants to follow that Gordon Sargent model, the stud from Vanderbilt, and saying, I want to stay in school. I want to continue to be a college golfer. I want to continue to be a college athlete. I want to make sure that when I turn pro, whenever that is,

It could be at the end of this year. It could be after his junior year, senior year. He could stay for a fifth year, whatever the case may be. He wants to make sure he's absolutely ready. It seems like a very mature decision that Jackson Coven is already making. Of course, as we saw with Nick Dunlap, if things do break his way, he could always make a different move. I was very surprised as well.

seeing Oberg in the backup. Like you look at the field strength, you see the 63 that he shot in the opening round on Wednesday, seeing the backtrack that Ludwig dig. And look, you don't know how much the illness really played a factor. He hit just eight of 28 fairways over the last two rounds, hit just 15 of 36 greens. When you're not feeling your best, when you're dealing with flu-like symptoms, yeah, you're probably not going to make many putts either with your focus and concentration waning. But, you know, much is expected here.

of this player. And for good reason, this seemed like a golden opportunity to get the PGA tour win number two and did not happen for Ludwig Oberg. And I'll go the other way. Hideki Matsuyama is the one that I was interested in. And look, we all saw what he did at Maui. We've talked about it and he putted lights out that way. He finished 46 this week in strokes game putting for rounds three and four. He actually gave up strokes more than one stroke on the greens. That is what we talked about when he won Maui. Are you saying Kapaloo was an aberration Rex?

No, I'm not. But he is. I'll go back to what I said then. He is the most inconsistent star player in the game right now. And that's the perfect example of it. And to be fair, the Greens and Kapalua are vastly different than what they are in Torrey Pines, where you have Poa. I understand that. But world class players find a way to allow their game to travel. You can tell a player is special if they travel.

Harris English being the primary example, five wins on five pretty different golf courses where you don't need a particular type of golf course that's contingent on your success. And this particular case, I just wanted to point that out because it sort of hammers home the point that I made when he won in Maui that yes, if his putting's in line, certainly that ball striking is sublime and he can do special things and win by multiple strokes. However, you just can't count on it.

All right, and some big news this week at Pebble Beach. Scotty Scheffler and Jordan Spieth are slated to return. It's the 80-man event at Pebble Beach, the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am. I will be in attendance. Let's first start with Scotty.

First start he's going to be making since the Hero World Challenge that you covered in early December. First official PGA Tour event since the Tour Championship, which is a little bit hard to believe. How curious are you to see not just what Scotty has been recovering from, but sort of what he is going to do for an encore in 2025? 10 out of 10. Like, you have to see what he looks like. And he's, look...

Whatever it is that happened with his hand, apparently he was cutting homemade pasta. Who knew that was dangerous? But that's how he ended up cutting his hand, had to have surgery, had to have some stitches. I spoke with his swing coach, Randy Smith, last week, and the level of concern I would say from Randy was very low. And I understand where that's coming from. Because it's January.

It is January, but he also, I think he made sure, you know, the old cliche is no one has ever come back too late from an injury. And in this particular case, I think he probably drug his feet a little bit on purpose, knowing that it's going to be really, really busy later in the summer. And I probably need to make sure this is 100%. So I have a level of confidence as well. But as we've talked about numerous times, I don't think anybody in the game right now has better hands than

than Scotty Scheffler. And by that, I mean, when you talk to a swing coach and I had this conversation last week with Justin Parsons, who we were just talking about,

When you look at what he does, everyone marvels at how he's able to feel the club head on the downswing, which is a fraction of a second. But it's why he very rarely hits bad shots. He never hits a left field ball. Like it's always, he may not be happy with it, but it usually goes where he's looking. And that's because he has such good hands. And even if something's not quite right with his body or his swing, he's able to adjust at the bottom. We made fun and marveled at the idea that he warms up with that club with the form grip.

And it's like every time he warms up, it's like he's touching the club for the first time in his life. He's never touched a golf. Yes, it's that. And that's exactly it. Thank you very much. I appreciate the Panama.

This is – and the reason I have concern on this front is because you have damaged your hand. And it sounds to me like it's healed and it's fine. But there is a level of curiosity that how is he – what is he going to look like when he comes straight out? Like, look, if he struggles chipping and putting, that's just rust. I get that. It's been a long offseason. I'm fine with that. I'm just really curious. Is the ball striking going to be the ball striking? Yeah, I'm not going to bore the people with what you –

Talked about a couple weeks ago with your traumatic versus chronic issue. I nailed that. The tour trainer talk. It was all very fascinating. Like, I'm not at all concerned that this is, like, going to linger in terms of an ailment. But to your point, I'm very curious to see how long it takes him to get back in gear, if at all. Like, Scottie Scheffler was putting his clubs away.

Sort of the first two weeks of January at a time that he would typically be gearing up and making sure that he's getting his game in gear. Yes, you would shut it down during the holidays, but he sort of had a busy December as well. He played the hero world challenge. He had the showdown as well. Yeah, he's going to take a little bit of a break.

for the holidays, but he plays a lot of social golf. Golf is never too far away from him. And so he was sort of shutting it down at a time. He typically be ramping it up. Now, as it sort of relates to his short-term schedule, I want to see exactly how much Scotty Scheffler is going to play as well. He did tie for six last year at Pebble Beach. He's a two-time winner at Phoenix. That's the following event. And then you do have the relocated Genesis Invitational. Is he going to play all

All three in a row? Is he going to play two of three? Does he add an event now during the Florida swing, maybe in Tampa, to get some extra reps that potentially were lost by skipping not just the Century, but the American Express as well? So I think short-term, it's going to be very interesting to see what Scottie Scheffler does. How about Jordan Spieth? We see the exclamation point in the graphic below. Thank you, Goldie, for putting that up there. That is, for me, it's the first time we've seen Jordan Spieth since the first –

FedEx Cup playoff event, of course, had the hand surgery, an issue that Jordan Spieth admitted had dated all the way back to 2018 and sort of played through it, had worked around it, had gotten treatment, and he finally went the surgical route. What are your sort of expectations for Jordan in 2025? How high should the bar for excellence be for him?

I wouldn't set the bar very high only because it hasn't been very high the last few years, largely because of the injury we just talked about. Now, the idea being, and you and I have someone that we bounce these ideas off of. We have a colleague, Aaron Obanzer, who went through a very similar surgery. And there is a level of concern there. Probably I'm much more concerned when it comes to Jordan than it is Scotty, simply because we have seen how wrist injuries can circumvent careers and short circuit careers.

And you certainly don't want that to happen to Jordan. However, when you hear him last year, talk about how the sheath would just pop out at a very inopportune moment happened at the players championship. And once it does, it pops back in, but then I have inflammation inflammation and you really can't play golf anymore. So I think there's going to be a peace of mind that he hasn't had to your point since 2018 where, okay, at least now I know that she's not going to pop out. I'm not going to hurt it anymore. But,

But he is the type of player, and I think we've seen it over the course of his career, he does need those reps. I'm less concerned about Scottie getting his reps going into Augusta than I am about Jordan because Jordan does seem to be the type of player that wants, needs to play his way into shape, and I'm not quite sure if he can do that quite yet.

I'm encouraged that Jordan said that this was sort of a reset for him. He's sort of entering, I guess you could call it the third phase of his career. You had the superstar phase and you had the downturn phase and now he's post injury and sort of still in the prime of his career. And I'm curious to see what he does with it. If you can reset, if you can get sort of back to the swing DNA, this is the longest he has ever gone without hitting a competitive golf shot.

And so I'm still very encouraged. And if he now does not have that sort of lingering issue in the back of his mind, is this going to hurt when I hit a shot? If he can go back to sort of the hallmark of his career, which has always been iron play, which has always been wedge play, the PGA tour desperately needs that.

An injection of juice from Jordan Spieth. Hopefully we can get it this week at Pebble. And just a note too, Rex, Xander Shoffley not in the field. World number two not in the field. Pebble as he still continues to deal with that lingering rib issue. We're going to debut a new segment, very exciting, called Love It or Lav It. This is your idea. Do you mind just giving a brief description of what we're anticipating with this sort of segment, Rex?

I think I got the idea. We were doing golf today in December and Eamon Lynch introduced us. I forget what the, he always comes up with something clever, but he referred to you as a curmudgeon. And I got to thinking, you can be a little on the curmudgeon side. You're much older than your years allow you to be. So the idea here is love it. That one's pretty easy or laugh it. That's absolutely something that you do not like. Laugh is not something you want to be associated with. So,

It's a very, very easy game here. We're going to throw out topics, and you're either going to love it or you're going to laugh at it. I've been portrayed as being a hater. I've been portrayed as being a pessimist. No, I'm just realistic, and I give the people what they want to hear. First topic, Riviera, as we mentioned, Riviera and the Genesis Invitational officially relocating to Torrey Pines, which just hosted the Farmers Insurance Open. Rex, do you love it or do you laugh at it?

I love it. And look, they had a bunch of different options. I think PGA West was in the mix. They talked about it a lot the week I was at American Express. They were talking about going to Las Vegas, maybe playing Shadow Creek. TPC Scottsdale was also in the mix. But I think Torrey Williams always made the most sense for a couple of reasons. My guess is Tiger Woods, the host of the Genesis, probably tipped the scales.

because on the front, he probably wanted a course with a pedigree. And as we just mentioned, that's the South course. And we, again, he could have taken it anywhere else and made this work, but you're taking it to a course that has a pedigree. It's had major championships there. And if you're in Los Angeles, which has been devastated, and I do want to footnote,

The one thing that I want to see out of this more so than going to Torrey Pines or actually playing the event or whatever the case may be, I want to see the tour do what it does best. And that's help out the communities that have always been there for the tour. I talked to an official at the American Express about this. And I think what they're going to do is going to be very, very special for the community. And going to Torrey Pines makes sense.

I mean, I certainly get all that. And this is this is going to sound bad. I've just had that moment. I understand the logistics. I understand the infrastructure. I certainly understand that Tiger, for God's sakes, he's an eight time winner at Torrey Pines, including 2008 U.S. Open. I still laugh at it.

I would have voted to have this at PGA West. That was a golf tournament at the American Express that no one really watched. You can make the golf course so much harder without the pro-am component when you have just 80 of the best players on the PGA Tour. You still have the infrastructure in place from having the tournament just a couple of weeks earlier. The main issue I have with Torrey Pines is like,

What's going to be different this time around? It's still going to be really hard. Eight under one this golf tournament. There was, what, 24 players who finished in red figures for the 72 hole event. Like, there's only so much more you can do to Torrey Pines to make it even more of a championship test. It could feel, I worry, a little bit redundant. Second topic, the live opener in Saudi Arabia is going to be played under the lights. Do you love it?

Or do you love it? I love it. It feels kind of gimmicky. And look, that tour is trying to find some sort of inroads. And it has a new, you know, the contract with a media partner at Fox this year. And so you're trying to do something special. I understand the idea of wanting to play it as close to primetime as possible in the United States. But we've talked about this before. Yeah.

You saw what happened at the Olympics last year. And the idea was you're not going to show anything on tape delay anymore. If you wanted to watch badminton at three o'clock in the morning, you could go on Peacock and watch badminton. I think that's what people want. That is the normal norm. I mean, that's the new norm for people who want to digest, who want to consume their content when they want to consume their content. In this particular case, you're playing it at night, which I never find very compelling to begin with. And you're just doing it to try to get in a window. Don't do it.

Just play it in the middle of the night, and if people want to watch it, they'll watch it. I love it. We're not going to be in the prime time on the East, but it is going to begin around 10 a.m. Eastern time for us who live on the East Coast. We do see some issues. We saw the showdown, remember, in Las Vegas with playing under the lights. Brooks Koepka and Bryson DeChambeau were both playing in that, and they really struggled. Like depth perception's way off. Green reading is really challenging. I think this is a way for Liv to sort of lean into the entertainment aspect

of its circuit, get away from the competitive thing. I think that still struggles to resonate with golf fans, that this is still larger the same year over year. The team thing might be a little bit gimmicky for some. Like lean into entertainment aspect. You got 14 of events. Not all of them are going to be absolute bangers.

I like it. Do it under the lights. I wouldn't mind seeing a little bit more of it, particularly for these international events. This is working out well. Keep going. It really is. This is my new favorite segment of all time. Topic number three, Rex. Netflix dropped its teaser for season three of Full Swing. A lot of heavy hitters in it. Who are you most interested in seeing of the list? Do you love it or love it?

I'm going to lab that as well. And I love the first season of Full Swing. And to be honest with you, it was the second season that really tore me. Because look, you had exclusive, like once-in-a-lifetime access to a lot of players during a time in the game that's never been rivaled. There was so much contentiousness with the game being torn apart because of what was going on between the PGA Tour and Live Golf. And I came away feeling empty. And we've talked about this before.

I understand those series probably aren't for you and I, because you and I live PGA tour and live in professional golf on a day in and day out basis. That's to be consumed by people who are just kind of passing. I get it. I felt the same way about the formula one series on Netflix that it made it interesting to me. It,

You suddenly turned it into something I want to watch. But in this particular case, I don't have very high expectations just because they had a lot of content. They had a lot of things they could have done that made season two special and they didn't do it. I doubt if they're going to do it this time. You know, that meme where the guy's like pointing at the TV, like,

Like looking at that, that's me during full swing, like seeing all the things that I didn't necessarily agree with or didn't exactly go down. They just sort of fit into their cute narrative. I love it as well. I am, I guess, semi-curious to see like a glimpse into Bryson DeChambeau's life. He should be figured prominently in this season. I'm interested in seeing finally the behind the scenes of Roy McIlroy's collapse at the U.S. Open. You and I chased him through the clubhouse. We chased him into the parking lot. But that's where sort of our story ended, at least until he resurfaced.

at the Scottish Open a couple weeks later. Any sort of access behind the scenes there I think would be very interesting, but I do love it as well. All right, final topic for Love It or Love It, which is, again, my new favorite segment, Tiger vs. Rory, Monday night in TGL. Do you love it? Or at this point in the TGL proceedings, do you love it?

I love it. And there was a lot of talk about the ratings were off for the third week of TGL. I think they were down 30% over the previous week, which included Tiger Woods for the first time. Look, they were very detailed. They were very structured and how they put that schedule together. They knew that there was going to be a level of interest for that first match. And so they didn't play Tiger or Rory in the first one. They tried to Tiger out for the second week and that got a spike. Clearly the third week did not deliver.

So what you're trying to do is get these people, the people that you want to attract to this particular product to hang on till that fourth week. Because then at that point, I think you've either established yourself as something that, yeah, I want to watch this on a Monday or Tuesday night or not. So I'll give them credit. I do love this. I love it as well. And like, keep in mind, like they're still getting 700,000.

which is nothing to scoff at. I mean, it's still ESPN in primetime. It's going to deliver. I love this as well. First time for Roy McIlroy's team. Tiger's team might be dreadful, but at least they're leaning into Kevin Kisner, the social media post highlighting his return coming out of the bunker skull. I like it. I do hope the technology works better than it did the first time around as well with Tiger airmailing greens by about 30 yards. We'll have a recap of that, Rex,

on the Wednesday podcast when I'm live from Pebble Beach. Because if you are new here, just a reminder, we do this podcast twice a week.

Only once on linear television, at least for the time being. We'll be back on Wednesday for a tournament preview with me live in Pebble Beach, available on all of your major podcast platforms, and as usual, the Golf Channel YouTube page. All right, Rex, let's wrap this up with punch shots, which of course is not to be confused with love it or laugh it. We're trotting out so many different subheads with this 52-minute podcast. The first one, St. Andrews, Aspen.

As expected, was announced as the host for the Open Championship in 2027. You and I both covered the 2022. So much was made of Tiger Woods' swan song. Do you believe Tiger Woods will play in that Open? Do you think he can make the cut? He will play in that Open because you and I were both there. We talked about this earlier this week on Golf Today, the idea that the last time around at St. Andrews, I think you and I both went sprinting out to the 18th hole when Tiger Woods was finishing. Walked the whole damn thing.

I did not. So I went sprinting out to the 18th hole because you want to be there for that final walk across this Wilkin Bridge. Clearly, I don't think either. He didn't feel like that was going to be the case. And I think everyone around him felt like that. No, he's not going to be done. So, yes, he'll play in it. I don't know what we can expect of him simply because we don't know what to expect from his game. But I will say this. And we mentioned this when we were doing the pregame.

pregame show. The idea being if they wanted to take the open championship back to St. Andrews every single year, I'd be a fan of that.

Oh, yeah, I certainly agree with that. Yeah, I think the concern in 2022 is that they wouldn't return to the old course until 2030 when she heard about that five. Instead, they're just doing a five year rotation. I think you and I are big fans of that. You may have missed this if you didn't watch the TGL match on last week. But Billy Horschel made sort of a tongue in cheek comment about hearing from the producer that they wanted to keep the match, quote, close.

After a couple of blowouts to begin, Billy was adamant that this was a joke. This was sarcasm. Obviously, if you watch the match, he and Justin Thomas desperately wanted to win. How big of a deal was this, do you think, for TGL to have at least some inkling that potentially the integrity of the competition had been compromised?

Well, if the producer didn't want another blowout, he didn't do a very good job of making that happen because we ended up with another blowout. So I'm just going to kind of start with that one. And I am going to say it was clearly if you listen to Billy say that I remember hearing it live as I was watching it and not thinking anything about it because it was said in jest. It was Billy just trying to be maximum positive.

Billy. And we've said the only way this is going to work is if these players show personality, if they're out there, just not with their heads down. This is not a normal competition that we need to come out and crack jokes and have fun with this. Billy was trying to have fun and probably said something he shouldn't have, but I don't read anything into this. I mean, he was clearly joking. I think anyone who heard that, I did remember thinking, uh-oh, like...

Like that's probably going to cause a problem. Obviously, there's no ill intent in that. Obviously, these are very proud athletes who are trying to win a competition with money on the line at the end. I just hope this doesn't scare some players off from having a little bit of fun. We're trying to see players in a different light, trying to see them to be entertainers. I don't want to be at all muzzled. All right.

Third topic, new PGA of America CEO Derek Sprague sort of doubled down as being anti-rollback, suggesting that the PGA of America and the respective tours won't go along with the rollback that's supposed to start. Keep in mind, for elite professionals in 2028 before it becomes standard practice for you and I in 2030. What were your thoughts on that?

I understand where he's coming from. The PGA of America has been really clear about the way they feel about the rollback. And for obvious reasons, we talked about this a lot this week because the PGA show was in town and look, they're the front lines when it comes to the actual game of golf. And for those PGA pros, the 30,000 PGA pros that are going to have to deal with this on the ground at the grassroots level, it's going to be a pain. I've seen it at my own club with the 75 year olds complaining about the rollback. And my point to them is always, uh,

You're not even going to be playing golf by the time this thing is rolled back. Like, trust me, you don't have to worry about it. You're not going to see the difference. I guess my only point I appreciate where Derek is coming from the ship of sale. Like you can continue to complain about it. It's like me complaining about the world's getting bounced out of the playoffs this year. Like there's nothing I can do about it at this point. Short-term pain, long-term gain. I thought it was a little disingenuous to suggest that the PGA did not have a seat at the table. This has been like a decade long process.

There has been comment periods. There has been all sorts of opportunities for these respective associations to make their cases made. The USGA and the RNA just happened to go in a different direction. They're also overlooked. The PGA of America is that regular people, folks like you and I,

They're not looking to hit the golf ball shorter. You basically are not with these new golf balls. You're probably going to hit it one to three yards shorter. You do not control your distance well enough to even notice that to me, it's a non-issue for recreational golfers and it needs to be done at the elite level. That's what they should be thinking. All right. You did not attend the PGA show, but I think you watched this more closely than anyone outside of Bailey Chamblee and Matt Adams. What was the best thing that you saw?

at the PGA show. Such great workout of Bailey and Matt all week long. It's so hard to work that show. And they did a fantastic job. The golf carts, man, you actually texted me. I think it was on Friday. We did a segment on the golf carts and you have one, you live in a golf cart community. You are privileged. Uh, my wife wants to get a golf cart. Yeah.

You live a life of privilege. My wife wants to get a golf cart. So I was fascinated by, I think they had like five different models and all of them were just bangers. Like all of them were just incredible. Now I probably can't afford one still, but that's what I thought was the coolest part.

57-year-olds should also not be saying bangers as it relates to golf carts. Yes, I do have a club car. It's absolutely stunted out. Georgia stickers everywhere, and it goes 36 miles per hour. I do love my club car. Shout out club car. We have been meaning to do this over the past couple of shows. We actually have listener questions. Thank you guys for submitting them in the comments section on YouTube. If you want to get back in the action, make sure you do so on Wednesday. We're going to start, Rex, with Joseph Breslin.

Boza, who asked if players like Scotty and Spieth join TGL, would the critiques not be as bad? What do you think?

I don't know why he thinks Scotty would make a difference because Scotty plays brilliant golf and he's actually a very good interview if you sit him down with a serious topic. I don't find him to be overly engaging or funny or a trash talker. You don't really see that. So I'm not quite sure how he's going to add to the broadcast. I would say Jordan, certainly, because we've seen the lighter, the funnier side of Jordan. That could certainly help. However, if we want to start going down the list...

We could probably go to a couple of live guys as well. Like I think Bryson DeChambeau would probably make it a lot more entertaining if we're being honest. Brooks Koepka, even though he'd probably be a little grumpy, certainly you could probably see him doing some fun things. But no, I don't see Scotty making a difference. To Joseph's point, two of the five biggest stars on the PGA Tour, at least as it relates to the player impact program on the PGA Tour, are not a part of...

of tgl having sort of brand names high profile players i think could only help you'll be very curious to say if they're implemented in season two if they are at all second question from i love this handle golf barbecue and watches i love all three where's the what's on the grill segment on the televised product do you have an answer for them rex

We know I don't have an answer for him because we ran out of time when we've done this before. However, you and I are still doing it during the Wednesday podcast. We still talk about that because we're both passionate about barbecue and this being the conference championship weekend ribs, man ribs. I love that. I did beef bulgogi. I don't even know what that is. We can, it's, it's delicious. Like Korean. It's, it's, it's steak. That's marinated. It's absolutely delicious. Yes. We would love to do a what's on the grill segment again,

And we would certainly love some sponsors as well as it relates to this. It's a very polarizing topic. When you and I do what's on the grill, we have people say, you guys are idiots. Keep it to just golf. We're tuning in for golf. We have other people say, you absolutely love it. I guess we'll try and thread the needle and do it where we can.

All right. That is going to do it for this edition. The golf show podcast with Rex and lab. Just a reminder. I'll be on site this week at the AT&T Pebble beach pro-am. We'll be doing the podcast on Wednesday. Look forward to catching up with Scotty with Rory. Who's making his 2025 debut on the PGA tour. Jordan Spieth as well. There should be plenty to get to. And you and I will be back a week from now.

on linear television, recapping a great week at Pebble, the second signature event of the week, excuse me, of the year on the PGA Tour. Thanks for listening. Thanks for the support. Talk to you guys in a couple of days. Glad Force Flex Max Strength now has bags with a two-time stronger top for over-the-top strength, like the kind of over-the-top strength you need when Bill breaks your bowl of buffalo chicken dip. Glad Force Flex Max Strength, strong enough for all of life's garbage. Two-time stronger top versus 13-gallon Force Flex bags.

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