Rex's notebook: On-the-ground reporting from a busy week at Colonial
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Hello and welcome into this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lav. Well, if you watch the CBS broadcast, you did not see a single birdie in the tournament winner at the Charles Schwab Challenge. Let me second poll on. Warm temperatures, wind gusts, new greens, firm conditions, plenty of nerves. But Ben Griffin is now a two-time winner on the PGA Tour after holding off Matty Schmid at Colonial Rex Tournament.

You smell like you were outside. That was a snoozer for a while, but it got oddly captivating at the end of Colonial, didn't it? I definitely smell like outside. It's been one of those kind of days. Heat index of 101 today in Fort Worth, in case anybody was curious. It was a very, very Texas-like forecast. A lot of wind, a lot of hot, a lot of firm and fiery. And I think in our group chat, you probably said it best. It was sneaky interesting.

And by that, I mean for someone who, and I'm talking about not only the winner, Ben Griffin, but everyone else around him, for someone who was on their way to playing very good golf to put themselves in a contention at a PGA Tour event, it certainly didn't look like it. And I think...

That's the beauty of Colonial. Now, certainly what we're seeing right now is Colonial is in the second year after the redesign. So the greens are still firm, still really, really fiery. It was that kind of week, but it was so exacting. When I interviewed Ben for Golf Central tonight, he kind of went through his card and kept sort of shaking his head like,

17, I really didn't hit a bad drive. I don't know how it ended up in such a bad spot. And then 18, I didn't hit a bad approach. I don't know how it ended up there. And he could have gone through his entire car. It was just sort of one of those days, one of those weeks on the PGA Tour. It's the beauty of Colonial. I think it's the reason why players absolutely love this place. But it was

Probably difficult to watch only because I turned to our very good friend and colleague, works for the PGA Tour, John Bush, who's one of the best in the business. And I asked him, Bushy, when was the last time a PGA Tour winner won with an over par closing round? And he looked me dead in the eyes and goes, I don't know. So good work on you, Bushy. Way to go. I wish I could tell you when that happened, but I didn't get a lot of help from the PGA Tour on that front. It must have been a minute.

And you look back at everything we have seen on the PGA tour this year. I could not help but flash back to the idea that there was moments earlier this season where people were saying that the ball flies too far. The game's too easy for them. But if you put these players on a golf course like colonial and those conditions, we see exactly how demanding the game can still be even for the very best. I just, I just looked up the PGA tour notes and,

for the final round of the Charles Schwab Challenge. Nothing in there about over par. Good work for Bush. Good work, John. Why don't you go ahead and do Jack's place? I know it's been a very exhausting week for you in Dallas-Fort Worth. First of all, you have a horse in your background. Yeah.

Shout out to my man Tanner at Reynolds Lake Coney in the kingdom for hooking me up with this spot just to do the show. Proper Ethernet cord. I certainly appreciate it. Tanner, like you never see Rex a 12 under winning score on the PGA tour any longer, particularly on a golf course. That's relatively short by today's PGA tour standards. It felt like a Harbor town experience.

In that respect, where there's certainly an emphasis on shot making, there's an emphasis on control. There's an emphasis on precision and proximity. Like these are all attributes of PGA tour courses that have largely been forgotten in this era of bombing and gouging. So I do, I did like it in that respect. I, I was curious. I wonder if you even asked Ben Griffin about this afterward, sort of the dynamics of Ben Griffin teams up with Andrew Novak five weeks ago,

win the zurich classic of new orleans a team event and i guarantee on that podcast a month and a half ago we said it is likely easier for first-time winners to play with a partner because you're sort of shouldering the burden in that respect you sort of it's a it's a communal experience trying to win the pages or for the first time together i'm curious was ben griffin so insanely nervous that that is what led

him to play his last 16 holes in four over par really needed some clutch par saves midway through that back nine, just to get it done. I think about the clutch putts on 14 clutch putts on 15 made a bad mistake going over the back on 16 and then 17 on 18 just need to grip down to the steel and

And then make a four footer on 18 just to win. Like that was a very gutsy performance from Ben Griffin. But I wouldn't say it was particularly well played. Well, no. And I don't know that anyone, I think if you would have watched from start to finish, you would have said, oh, yeah, that's a perfect round on that golf course. Just because the conditions were so difficult. I did ask Ben two time PGA Tour winner. But this time felt different. This felt like more of a grind.

And what did you prove to yourself today? And I don't think he shied away from the idea that, yes, there were nerves involved. He was by himself. You're on an island 51 weeks out of the year on the PGA Tour, unlike New Orleans a few weeks ago when he had Andrew Novak at his side. Certainly, that's always going to make it easier. So I think this was such a huge step forward.

in the right direction. And I do want to go back to the idea that now Ben Griffin has won twice on the PGA tour in just about a month, a little over a month. And he's also finished tied for eighth at the PGA championship. Don't discount that. That's his best finish ever in a major championship. I was talking with his caddy on Friday afternoon after the round and

Kind of trying to get the idea, did anything change over these last couple of weeks? And he said, absolutely. I guess they sat down on Monday of this week, Ben Griffin and his caddy, talking about, yes, these are my goals. And Alex's caddy told me that, Rittenhamel, told me that he's never had goals. He's never been one of those guys to sit down and do it. But they've suddenly coalesced in a way that he realizes that he can set the standard now.

Now he can compete against the game's best and he can succeed. I can only imagine where he goes from Sunday because you're right. It was so nervy and so difficult. And he went through shot by shot how tough this golf course was playing. I was stunned.

how many shots went long. Like usually tour players will be right or left on approach shots. Very rarely will they be wildly short or wildly long. They don't have a problem with distance control. Not like your normal amateur does. In this particular case, it seemed like the vast majority of his approach shots all just bounded over the green. And I think that had less to do with the way he was hitting the ball. Cause he told me after the round and man, I'm, I was playing good. It just, it,

It's just really hard when you're out there in those conditions and you catch a gust and it's so firm and it's so fast. Adrenaline's running. And next thing you know, you've put yourself in an impossible spot in the Bermuda rough. So I think this is going to resonate a long time. And I will give, this is just the second time I've had a new producer, field producer this week.

I'm just going to call him other Andrew because I can't pronounce his last name and we already have one Andrew. So other Andrew pointed out to me after Ben one, where does this put him in the Ryder cup conversation? I think it's still a little too early for that because we have three major championships remaining. That's not right. Sorry. Two major championships remaining. And there's so many points up for grabs. I think that factors into this as well. But if you're Keegan Bradley, I think certainly after this weekend and what he combined with what he did at the Zurich classic would put Ben on the radar.

I can see the headline now. Diva Rex Hoggard doesn't know producer's last name. I do. I can't pronounce it. It starts with a B. It has a lot of vowels. He did a really good job. HR is on line one. Please do attend that Monday teleconference. When you zoom out with Ben Griffin, it is interesting, Rex. Yeah.

He won for the first time on the PGA Tour and his 89th start on the PGA Tour. And we've seen, you know, guys get off the schneid in much longer sort of droughts than that. Then he goes five weeks and now he's a two-time winner on the PGA Tour. He's a player when you zoom out on his career, he's gotten better each and every year that he has been on the PGA Tour. He finished 63rd in the FedExCup points on 37 starts. A couple years ago last year, he was 61st.

on 35 starts. So he was one of these players on the PGA tour who has always been a volume shooter.

You know, play as many tournaments as you can, try to stockpile the points and see how you sort of shake out at the end of the season. That's been, I think, one of the criticisms of this new format for the PGA Tour where everything is more condensed. And now that you're trimming the list of eligible players from 125 to 100 keeping their PGA Tour cards at the end of this season, I think there was at least some belief that you could see guys just

sort of wearing themselves ragged, just playing each and every week to accrue as many points as they can just to keep their status for the following season. That win at the Zurich for Ben Griffin changed everything because he was a player who was going six, seven, eight, nine weeks in a row, just trying to get as many stars under his belt as humanly possible. And he's now sort of afforded himself a different stratosphere of player. Right.

Right. Like you look at the superstars, you look at the A tier, the B tier. He has elevated himself this year and it's been great to see. And now he can sort of build in a little bit of flexibility in his schedule. He can take time for himself, work on his game, bed and nuke equipment, whatever the case is going to be. And I think you're seeing Ben Griffin now.

play better golf than he ever has. A, he's got self-belief that he can actually get it done. And B, he's just not dog tired playing each and every week on the PGA Tour to try and lock up status. He's all the way up to fifth. Like he's basically a lock at this point for Eastlake in the Tour Championship for the first time.

And I think to your point, there's also job security. So I totally agree with you on that front. There's belief in what I'm doing because I've done this once. Now I've done it twice. And yes, I can certainly compete against the best and win in really difficult conditions. I can't overstress how tough that was and how he's going to be able to fall back on that in the future. The other half of this is and during this age of immediate superstars, and I think you and I both are

fans of PGA tour you and creating that pathway of recognizing young stars in college and bringing them up that here is a guy at 29 years old that took a hiatus. Yes. He left North Carolina Chapel Hill and decided to go into the mortgage business for a little while. He sat at a desk and decided that, Nope, I don't like this either, which I can understand that as well, but he took a different path. And it's,

I was reading some of the comments from our podcast on Wednesday and we probably caught some heat justifiably. So about sort of leaning into Scotty Sheffler, Jordan Spieth this week. And I think a lot of people in the golf media spend some time, probably spend too much time leading into just the big names. It's the stars. It's the one who are going to drive the engine. It's the one everyone wants to know about. We probably don't spend enough time talking about the other players. And in this particular case, the other player is Ben Griffin and,

Not only do I see a player who has obviously taken a step to the next level, I see a potential star player because he has the personality. I've spent enough time around him now to understand that he's fun to be around. He likes to engage with the fans. He likes to engage with the media. And he's really, really good and has the resume now. Yeah, like the PGA Tour is built on Ben Griffin types, right?

and a lot of the players that we're going to focus on this week for the NCAA championship, a lot of these college players who have now secured instant PGA Tour cards, whether it's a Gordon Sargent, a Luke Clanton, David Ford of North Carolina is about to be on the PGA Tour. You could have Jackson Coivin if he finishes inside the top 10 of the NCAA championship. All of those guys instantly are going to be PGA Tour members immediately following the NCAA championship. So you're having this influx of young talent, but those guys are really the exception.

And it remains to be seen whether those guys will be able to stick and make an immediate impact. But most PGA Tour players have Ben Griffin's sort of resume. And he was a pretty standout college player. And he just sort of methodically plods his way along, gets better, has learning experiences, gets himself into contention, and now he's able to elevate himself in a new way. I'm with you. I think he's probably –

on that same sort of tier as a JJ Spahn, a Maverick McNeely, his old partner at the Zurich, an Andrew Novak, vying for one of those last sort of spots for a Keegan Bradley. I think the tie for eighth at the PGA Championship for Ben Griffin was huge, showing he could get it done in a major championship. It's going to be an important summer for him as well. How about Rex, the player who was vying for the Colonial title and

And that was Matty Schmidt. A lot of the guys on the CBS broadcast were killing him for his lack of an off-speed pitch. He basically just has one speed. It is hard. It is hit it. And it is hit it hard. Very curious decision for him to go away from the flag in the greenside bunker on 17, knowing that he needed to at least give himself a chance to get that up and down. What did you make of Matty Schmidt, how he played in the final round, particularly on that closing stretch?

I don't know that he went away from the flag on 17. I think maybe it was more of a miss it. Maybe he was just a little aggressive. Maybe there was, I'm talking about this third shot from the bunker. No, no, no. Okay. Okay. Well, I'm glad you brought that up because there was another producer who's at golf channel headquarters who wanted us to ask,

Matty after the round, what he was thinking for that shot, 17.3, the third shot on the 17th hole. And my immediate response was you didn't have a lot of options. It was plugged. Anyone who's ever played golf on a regular basis knows that those are almost impossible to control, even if you're one of the very best in the game. And I asked him about it after the round and he essentially explained that he only had two options. Either he was going to go long and left or longer, right. And he felt like longer, right. Was the better option. He felt like he'd give himself at least a chance to,

of trying to get up and down. It didn't work out and it turned out to be, I would say the deciding factor in this. And it was much closer just because of that chip in on 18. I would argue that everything was decided on 17. As far as the off-speed stuff, I'm impressed with,

with the way Matty swings the golf club. He is very much the epitome of the modern swing. And you're right. There is not an off-speed pitch, and we can go down the history of star-class players who got to that point and decided that I need to go to whoever you pick.

Butch Harmon or Scott Hamilton or whatever swing coach and to learn how to hit the 120 yard shot and the 112 yard shot and the 102 yard shot to get to the next level. Dustin Johnson being the primary example of that. We all know the wedge work that he put in really pushed him over the top 20.

but the DNA of going after things as hard as you possibly can, I still think is the construct of the modern game. You still have to do that so well, and then you can work the other things in. I think the bigger deal with Manny Smith is his putting. And it's a very unorthodox putting style. I think in the wins like we had specifically on Sunday, he was probably uncomfortable. And I think we saw that in a couple of putts. And I even asked him Saturday night about what he felt like he was doing well putting. And there wasn't a lot of confidence there.

So I think that's probably the bigger hang up right now for Maddie. I will say, despite the finish and how it worked out after the season he had had and he had had a poor season by any standard, this is going to be a huge boost just to try to get him somewhere closer to the playoffs. Yeah, I'm glad you asked me about 17. Just I was confused as a as a viewer, because at that point he was essentially gifting Ben Griffin the term. I know he chipped in.

on 18 an unlikely birdie at that point from where he was long and left of the green I know that Ben Griffin had to make a four-footer just to win by a single shot but doing what Matty Schmidt did on 17 playing away from the flag from a plug lie I know it's a difficult lie but just give yourself a chance what if he rattles it off the flagstick it drops it what if it what if it even falls into the cup like going away from that essentially throwing away a shot

at that juncture of the golf tournament just seemed like a curious one for me. I know he got up and down, but it just, as a viewer, it was a little bit odd. Frank Nobolo, Ian Baker Finch, also a little bit confused by that as well. But you're exactly right. Like the season that Matty Schmidt had, maybe he was protecting the points, trying to lock up his status for next season as well. I think it's interesting to point out as well. Let's talk about Ricky Fowler.

who dropped from solo third place entering the final round all the way into a six-way tie for 16th after a final round 74, squandering a golden opportunity to earn even more points and make his status secure for 2026. He's only exempt through the end of this season is Ricky Fowler. What's going on with Big Rick?

I think if you look at what he did well through three rounds, his ball striking was very good as it normally is. I think he's still a very solid ball striker. The difference, at least for the first three rounds, was his putting. Starting the final round, he was fifth in strokes game putting, which is way above his season average. He made a pretty dramatic putter switch.

this week. It was interesting last week at Valhalla. I think both of us were standing on the putting green when he was tinkering with both his old putter and this new putter. It's the lab version, the really big kind of unorthodox looking putter. And it worked really well for three rounds. And I would argue that there were flashes of that even in the final round. I think he had two putts outside of 20 feet. I mean, he made like 110 feet worth of putts. Like this is, this is a player in Ricky Fowler who used to be

I think the envy of most of his PGA tour peers in terms of how he putted the golf ball. Yeah. And, but I think that's the part that has been missing this year. So like any other tour player, he went searching for answers. I'm not quite sure if this putter is the answer. It seemed to be for three rounds. He seemed to have a lot of highlights, but what I saw over the course of the final round is at least early, his short game really let him down. He put himself in some weird positions on this golf course, not hard to do. And he wasn't able to scramble like he did.

through 54 holes and that was probably the bigger issue because when you look at the swing at least statistically i don't know there's that much different from this version of ricky than ricky from 10 years ago when he was competing to win in major championships but certainly the short game is an issue he's really just struggling to put all four rounds together i know that's a cliche but when you look at like the round by round results from ricky fowler in 2025

That's kind of what it is. He just has one or two rounds that shoot himself out of the golf tournament, or he has a good start and he squanders it on the weekend. Just once this year, Rex has Ricky fired all four rounds in the sixties. And that wasn't even that impressive. The one time he did it,

shooting awful rounds in the 60s, was at the track meet in Houston. He ended up finishing outside the top 40 anyway just by doing that. I think when you look sort of drilled down on this and what Ricky is not doing well this season, look at his weekend scoring average.

Entering the Charles Schwab Challenge, he was 163rd and 164th respectively on the PGA Tour in third and final round scoring average. He doesn't have a completeness in his game right now to bail him out.

If on the weekend, when the conditions are its firmest, when the pins are most tucked, when the nerves are the highest to bail him out, he's a below average iron player at this point in his career. He's a below average scrambler. And, you know, despite being one of the best putters in the PGA tour, at least at this point, he is a below average putter. And so unless everything is on song and it has certainly happened a couple of times this season, he just can't rely on a certain part of his game.

to bail him out and scratch out a score. And that's, I think how you get in the situation as Ricky Fowler did on Sunday where he shoots 74.

How about Scotty Scheffler-Rex, who tied for fourth just a week after the PGA Championship? It never looked like Scotty was necessarily going to win this golf tournament, except for when he went three under for his first two holes to start the week at Colonial. But yet, he still leads the field in strokes, gained tee to green, despite having a pretty off week with the putter. What do you make of Scotty as he now plays? This is going to be his third week in a row this week at the Memorial.

It is so amusing to me. Funny, even, how predictable Scotty Scheffler is because he came into this week with so many expectations. If...

You look at what he has done this season. Certainly the last time he played the Dallas area, he won by eight strokes at the Byron Nelson. And then of course, winning the PGA championship. Of course, he was going to be the favorite coming into this week on a golf course that by the way, last three years, he finished second, third, second. There was nothing in the clouds that would suggest that maybe this wasn't Scottie's week. But if you're paying attention and you listen to what he says, because he doesn't say a whole heck of a lot, but what he says, there is a lot of substance to it. In this particular case, his preparation just wasn't there.

And for good reason, he didn't get home until late. There was a celebration on Sunday night for all the right reasons. After winning the PGA championship, my guess is he pretty much slept all day. Monday didn't come to the golf course on Tuesday and just played nine holes on Wednesday. This is just rinse and repeat. When it comes to Scotty Scheffler, you can say this every single time. If he doesn't,

prepare like he wants to prepare, like he needs to prepare. He's probably not going to get the most out of his game. That being said, you're going to look back at this and say, nope, another top 10, just one more part of just an unbelievable schedule. Somehow some people are probably going to look at this.

and be underwhelmed but it's as simple as that when I talked to him this afternoon it was well I had one off day it's Friday shot one over 71 not quite at his best and then the other three rounds were solid I think what he did over the weekend gave him something going into next week and to that point I made I was very very clear of asking him what's your schedule like next week

And the plan is to fly to Ohio for the Memorial on Monday night and do his normal routine on Tuesday and Wednesday. And that's why he's probably going to be one of the favorites for all the right reasons. If he doesn't get his proper preparation, whether that's going into a tournament or in the offseason, like we saw this offseason with the injury, he's just going to be a fraction off. And fraction off, Scottie Scheffler usually finishes somewhere inside the top five. When he's not a fraction off and he's 100%, he can win by eight strokes.

This was a classic case of being physically sharp and mentally fatigued, right? Like his iron play was as spectacular as it always is. And yet I think understandably so he was pretty mentally fried from what happened at Quail Hollow, the PGA championship. We saw the emotion afterward, how difficult it was for him having the big lead, then coughing it up and playing those last nine holes tied with John Rahm on a very difficult golf course at Quail Hollow.

Credit to him for honoring his commitment and playing his hometown event, trying to become the first player, I think like a half century, to win the Dallas Double after already winning the Nelson, trying to win the Colonial as well. No issues whatsoever with Scotty Scheffler. He heads into Jack's place. And then, of course, he gets open at Oakmont. Full steam ahead. Let's get into two other storylines, Rex, from your week of reporting. Let's first start with...

with distance measuring devices, right? And the trial period for DMDs ended at the PGA Championship. You had an opportunity to talk to players, talk to tour officials. What did you find in your reporting at Colonial as to the efficacy of DMDs and how it could relate to the future of the PGA Tour? This was a test period. It began at Hilton Head, at the Heritage, and it lasted. Technically, the PGA Championship wasn't part of the test period, but they've been using DMDs

and the PGA championship and all the championships for the PGA of America since 2019. So it was kind of part of the snapshot. And I did, I had a chance to talk with Gary Young, who's their chief competitions officer, just about whatever conclusions they can draw. And they're still crunching the data, although they're close. And one of the things he pointed out is there, this is part of a larger picture that the commissioner sort of laid out to the media at the players championship back in March, the idea that they are trying to address pace of play in a,

And maybe a more collective way, maybe a little bit more focused way, trying to come up with exactly what they want to do. So the reason this was a test period, which I tend to agree with the way Gary Young explained it to me, to me is that.

He told me his words, not mine, that they gave them their shiny new toys, meaning PGA tour players like here. Look what you get to have now. And then they took it away from them because they feel like that's the best way to get the feedback, because there's probably plenty of players that we're looking around this week asking, where is my DMD? Like, I want my range finder. I've been using it now. I'm I'm conditioned to use it.

It is interesting, and I will say this. Gary was very, very quick to point this out, and one of the players I talked to who will have a voice in the room, Camilo Vachekas, who is a member of the policy board, will have a voice in the room. We're not huge fans of it, and there is no guarantee that distance measuring devices are just going to become the norm on the PGA Tour because there is still a split idea that it could actually hurt pace of play, and Gary Young gave me a great example of this.

At the same time that the PGA Tour was doing this test period, they were also doing it on the Corn Fairy Tour, the secondary tour, trying to get an idea of how it could play out there. And there was a player on the Corn Fairy Tour who actually exceeded his allotted time and got a one-stroke penalty for the specific reason he went back to his range finder a second time.

And that's what caused it to trigger. And so this is going to be a conversation that's going to come up next week during the player advisory council meeting. That's Memorial. They're going to address it, but there is no guarantee that this is going to continue. And as Camillo explained to me,

he probably doesn't want it to continue. It is a very much a generational thing. If you're a player, a veteran player, let's call them that you're used to doing something in a very certain way. And you trust your caddy to do his job in a very proper way, as opposed to the younger generation of players who kind of have been conditioned and college and the amateur rings to use these during competitions. And it's not that big of a deal. Probably the bigger slice of this was alongside the,

The use of range finders on the corn fairy tour. They also changed the rule. Essentially, they took away one of the warnings, the way they time players if they get out of position and then now you're being timed in the past. You got one warning when you were being timed. You did not get a penalty. And then the second time you exceeded your a lot of time. Then you got a one stroke penalty. Well, they got rid of that penalty. They got rid of that one stop sign.

And hearing Gary talk about it, they're very encouraged about not just pace of play, but players being aware of exactly where they are. And to go along with the experiment, they took away distance measuring devices on the Corn Fairy Tour because Gary wants to make sure and the tour wants to make sure that it's this policy change that has sped up play. But there is tangible proof that that policy change made an impact on the Corn Fairy Tour.

Yeah, I understand that range finders are another potential tool in a speed of play tool belt, right? Like if you get offline, it can help.

If there's short yardages, you know, 50 yards, so there's awkward distances, it can help. But if the impact of using range finders is minimal, right? Like maybe trimming a minute or two over the course of a full four, four and a half hour round, is that really worth reducing the potential advantage that a good caddy can give you? And I think a lot of caddies would probably argue it's not worth it. Like,

those guys with the angles that they can, they can calculate, like it makes a big difference at that level, two or three yards and the good caddies can dial in the distance. And then maybe they're not so pedestrian caddies struggle a little bit in that respect. And that can make a huge difference. That's really worth a shot, two shots, three shots over the course of a tournament. And that where you can see the difference making you, you, you brought it up. Like if the PG tour really wanted to crack down on pace of play, speed of play, the,

It's going to come down to eliminating the second warning. Once you get on the clock, if you get a bad time, it's a one-shot penalty, no more warning. It literally just popped up at the NCAA Championship on Sunday where the tournament leader was on the clock, got a bad time,

And yet he was not penalized. If golf wants to be serious, you have to start stroking. These guys is, it is unheard of that. The PJ tour has not doled out a slow play stroke penalty for guys since 1995. Enough of the fines.

I'm not even sure FedExCup points will make all that much difference if you're one of these high-earning guys. You have to hit them where it really hurts, and that is on the leaderboard. Great reporting. For more of that, go to NBCSports.com slash golf. Rex, one of the other storylines on a sadder note was this was the one-year anniversary of Grayson Murray's tragic passing. What was the vibe like at Colonial as PGA Tour players and officials reflect on

on the one year anniversary. Keep in mind, this was the last tour event that Grayson Murray played in before he passed away. We lost him. And to the credit of officials here in PGA Tour officials, on Wednesday, there was a moment of silence on the range where they honored Grayson Murray. There was a, there's going to be a collaboration between the Grayson Murray Foundation, which is,

The mission is to help people who are struggling with either alcoholism or mental health issues. They're going to partner with the Ben Hogan Foundation, which of course is tied to Colonial and the Charles Schwab Challenge, to come up with a scholarship to try to help people who are dealing with these types of issues. I will say probably the most emotional moment for me of the week came on Friday afternoon with Aske Batia, who was very good friends with Grayson, and he's been pretty outspoken. And he had shot well, and I was doing the...

interviews during the tournament broadcast. And it was the last question. And it kind of came to me via suggestion from an editor. And I really didn't know what the answer I was going to get. And it was very emotional. And it was very poignant pointing out that not a day goes by that someone who knew Grayson that well, like Akshay, that he thinks about him and how tragic it was. And it's difficult. I

I think for everyone involved and I would strongly encourage everyone to go to Twitter X and to read what Steve Weacock Croft wrote today about, he had reached out to Grayson a few weeks before the tragedy and just tried to help them and never really circled back around to follow up to see if they could have a conversation. And you get haunted by those things. I can only imagine how difficult it is. And it's, it's,

It's a very fine example. It's a very loud example of why you should always push and try to be kind. And I think that's the message of the Grace and Mary Foundation.

Yeah, I think one year later, we have a greater understanding of who Grayson Murray was and what he was dealing with. We know the anxiety that paralyzed him at times. We know the depression that he was experiencing, even reaching these heights, playing on the PGA Tour, being a winner at the Sony Open in 2024. We know more about the battles with alcoholism and the gambling addiction that

that Grayson Murray was battling over the past couple of years. But we also know Rex more about like his generosity of spirit, his many instances of giving back to those in need, helping out caddies, helping out friends, helping out strangers, helping out those in rehab, like his generosity of spirit has really shown through as it relates to what the PGA Tour could have possibly learned over this past year. It should have been eye-opening, but most likely to ramp up

the services of its members. There was a lot of warning size as it related to Grace and Murray. And I think in many respects, he was still able to slip through the cracks. I think

in sort of a personal level, a medium, a media level, it was a good reminder not to judge these guys, PGA tour players so quickly, right? We see them on TV. We talk to them. We see some erratic behavior. We see the outbursts, but we don't know exactly the hidden pain that a lot of these guys could be experiencing a little bit of empathy, a little bit of grace, a little bit of space, a little bit of understanding and kindness and,

I think can go a long way. Plenty more of this podcast coming up after this short break. As many of you know, we do this podcast, not just on Mondays for linear television, but also on Wednesdays. Rex and I will be back with another edition of the golf show podcast with Rex and lab on Wednesday, where we do a full preview of the Memorial tournament at Jack's place or this podcast after the short break. All right, Rex, it's time for some punch shots. Let's start.

with reigning Masters champion Roy McIlroy deciding to skip this week's Memorial Tournament. No explanation given. You surprised by that move? No.

Not surprised, nor was I expecting any explanation, to be honest with you. What the tour has created, they are going to be victims of their own success. And it's clear now, three years, I believe, into the Signature Event experiment, that no amount of money, no amount of points is going to make players play exactly what you want them to play. It's simply not in their DNA. That's never been the way professional golfers have handled themselves. Having that autonomy to go play where they want is important to them.

And I do love the idea that Rory has been really clear about this. He's leaned into the idea that he wants to win national championships. U.S. Opens, Canadian Opens, Scottish Opens. The national championships mean something to him. So he is essentially skipping the memorial, this event,

Trying to prepare for the open, but also the Canadian Open is going to be on the back end of that. So I'm neither surprised nor did I expect anything else. I guess the one thing I will say that maybe does surprise me is that we're not seeing more top players do it. Because of the way the schedule is condensed now, it's probably not conducive for a lot of guys to play their best golf. We can go through the history of time. Passing.

Patrick Reed, for example, loved to play every single week and would not have been impacted by this. Most players don't. They want some sort of ebb and flow to their schedule that they can maximize their talent and their potential when it matters the most. At the Masters, at the U.S. Open, at the major championships, the schedule they have now doesn't allow them to do that. And I would expect more players to start following Rory and Scottie's lead.

I still think in some sense, Rory is sort of a special case in this instance, right? Like he has never been afraid to skip

signature events or elevated events as they were called a couple of years ago remember i did it a couple years ago at harbortown when it was quote-unquote mandatory and ended up losing a couple million dollars from his player impact program bonus so he hasn't been afraid to do it even skipped the heritage earlier this year a signature event on the pg tour when you look schedule wise as it relates to rory mackay that would have been for tournament in soro memorial and

Canadian Open, U.S. Open. I believe he's also going to be playing the Travelers Championship, the final signature event on the PGA Tour schedule. He's never won at Jack's place. He only has two top tens there since 2016. But I will say it's sort of a bad look. If you go back to Augusta National and the Masters during the press conference with Jack Nicklaus, Tom Watson,

They talked in Gary Player. They talked about how, you know, entering a couple weeks prior to the Masters, Roy McIlroy and Jack Nicklaus sat down and they went shot by shot for how Roy McIlroy should play Augusta National in

ends up winning the masters and then doesn't return the favor a couple of months later as the reigning masters champion playing the tournament. Not a great look. Barbara Nicholas also being honored, but to your point, and I don't think this is necessarily even a Rory issue because Scotty Scheffler also missed the truest championship in Philadelphia. If $20 million purses, great golf courses, best fields, a really good spot on the calendar as a final tune-up,

for a major championship because you're getting a week break afterward. If you can't get all the stars to commit, what can you? I would say the tour has done a good job of elevating these events, signature events.

I would say they'll continue to do it because their purses will probably just get bigger and they'll probably just find more ways to assure that the top players show up. But there's no way they're ever going to be able to guarantee full participation. And I will say, to your point, the relationship, clearly, that Rory has with Jack Nicklaus is very close. And my guess, the most difficult conversation wasn't with the tournament director.

of the Memorial or even the PGA tour. But Rory, I'm sure reached out to Jack and explained it to him. And of all people, Jack, the competitor, I'm sure understood that you need to be at your best to play the U S open. And if that's what it takes, fine. Yep. I guarantee his advice was okay. If this is going to help you try and win at Oakmont,

More power to you. Good luck in Pittsburgh. All right. Speaking of players who will be at Merrifield Village, Jordan Spieth and Ricky Fowler both receiving sponsor exemptions into this week's Memorial. Matt Kuchar, Brant Snedeker are the others. Are you okay with Spieth and Fowler now accruing five sponsor exemptions as it relates to the signature events this year? Uh,

Fred, mark this time for the social clip because I think I'm going to do something special here. No, I'm not okay with that. Who would be okay with that? We've been pretty clear on this, repetitive even, that no, we need to be careful about these invitations into signature events because they're very coveted and you cannot cut off someone who is playing well, for example, a Maddie Schmidt or whoever else who may not be in that event that could use that event to catapult them and to do something special. I understand.

that tournament directors want a Ricky Fowler and a Jordan Speed, that that is going to make the product better. I totally understand this. This is a competitive conversation. And from a competitive standpoint, they are not doing what's best for the PGA Tour by continuing to invite these players time and time again into these elite events. It feels like patronage, and that's not good for the PGA Tour. That was very special. I do hope that they were clipping that one. This happened last year.

with players like Adam Scott and Webb Simpson, to name a few. This year actually might be even more egregious. Like, it's June. These guys have had ample opportunities through the signature events, and they still haven't capitalized. Jordan Spieth has not finished better than 18th in the signature event. Ricky Fowler, his best finish was a tie for 15th at the truest. Like, these players, Jordan Spieth and Ricky Fowler, they're only exempt on the PGA Tour through the end of this season.

And with the trimming to the top 100, there are fewer and fewer cards that are going to be available. That's not necessarily a factor for Jordan Spieth. He's 49th. That still could potentially play a factor with signature event status for 2026. But Ricky Fowler, after what happened on Sunday at Colonial, he's 90th on this list. So he has these golden opportunities. He has these golden tickets in actuality.

in access to more points, and he's still not delivering at this point in the season. If you're the PGA Tour, you either have to put a cap on the number of sponsor exemptions you can receive. Two seems like a pretty fair number. Maybe you do something drastic in terms of not even allowing these guys to earn FedEx Cup points if you're playing on a sponsor exemption or reducing them for some, like,

Yeah, I think that gets messy as well. The cap is the easiest thing. The PGA Tour needs to do it. Again, I do not blame the tournaments. I don't blame the tournament directors. I don't blame the tournament officials. If I were running the Memorial, I would want Jordan Spieth and Ricky Fowler in my tournament as well. But if I'm on the PGA Tour board or if I'm a run-of-the-mill PGA Tour player who is trying desperately, fighting tooth and nail to get into these tournaments and trying to finish among the top 100 so I have job security for next year,

I'd be royally pissed off at what has happened in the signature events. All right. Final punch out for today, Rex, the PGA of America chief off operating officer, Craig Kessler has been named the 10th LPGA commissioner succeeding Molly Marcuse Amon. What should be Craig Kessler's,

top priority as it relates to the LPGA. I was interested reading his comments talking about trying to turn the LPGA tour into a greater product, a greater media product, getting better exposure for their players on the different platforms. I understand that because I don't know about you. I've watched a lot of WNBA the last few days. I'm captivated by it. And it's not the Caitlin Clark, you,

thing like that. That's not what's doing it. It's really good basketball. And so I've enjoyed that as I sit in my lonely hotel rooms night in and night out. I can imagine the LPGA could do the same thing with the right personalities, with the right marketing campaigns. However, you just don't snap your fingers and do that. I think you need to come in with a better idea than just walking into a TV executive's office and saying, we want more.

There has to be something. There has to be a give and take to it. And I can only apply it to the PGA Tour because I cover the PGA Tour. I will give most, not all, most PGA Tour players credit over the last year and a half as they've tried to be more engaging with the media, specifically as it has come to the tournament broadcast. And I did a couple of walk and talks this week at Colonial. I've been really clear.

about those make me wildly uncomfortable and I haven't largely enjoyed them. I actually enjoyed them this week. I thought my walk and talk with John Park was one of the better ones I did because we were able to engage on something other than golf. He's a huge New York Knicks fan and he wouldn't actually stop talking, which is a little concerning when you're walking down the middle of a fairway in the middle of a tournament. But these are all things that if the LPGA tour will embrace and maybe even beyond, that's how you get your players to be, uh,

greater stars in this day and age. That's where he probably needs to focus instead of just standing there saying that they just need to be exposed better. I mean, the LPGA has some pretty key figures in place.

Whether it's a potential generational player like Nelly Korda, you have an up-and-coming star like a Gino Titical. You have Charlie Hull, who's become a fan favorite. Lydia Ko is going to go down as one of the best of her generation. So if you're the LPGA, how do you take those players and...

sort of ride the tidal wave of interest and attention that has been generated in women's sports over the past couple of years, Caitlin Clark and how they integrated her into the pro-am a couple of, a couple of months ago at the end of the 2024 season was a great example.

And that literally just won a best brand activation of the year with game bridge based on the sports business journal. Like that was a sort of a no brainer, but the LPGA needs to do a better job moving forward. And Craig Kessel can help with this is playing the best possible schedule,

highlighting the women at a premier time on the best golf courses. So take next week's U S women's open as sort of the, the perfect example of this, right? That is the biggest event in women's golf, the U S women's open it's opposite of

Jack's tournament, a signature event on the PGA tour schedule at one of the most recognizable courses in Mirafield village. The NBA finals are going to be close to starting as well. And coverage is only available on USA network. That is not optimizing the LPGA schedule to be the most successful. It's really going to take someone who's innovative, someone who's engaging, someone who can work with the sponsors and the partners to really position these women in

in the best possible situation to succeed. Because clearly, if you watch...

it's any LPGA at all in 2024 Nelly Korda and a dominant run. She was on, that should have been a huge year for the LPGA. Instead. I was surprised to learn who golf, we, uh, Bethann Nichols and a friend of this podcast that the LPGA actually lost a couple of million dollars in 2024. That should never happen. And that leads me to believe there's some pretty gaping holes in the business plan. Craig Kessler has been a fast, uh, fast riser in the industry, uh,

Hopefully can figure out a couple of those things. All right. On the other side of this short break, you're not going to want to miss this. We have a couple of listener questions looking at you, Robert M. All right, Rex, I can't believe it. We actually left time for listener questions. Let's begin with this one from Robert M7889, who says, yeah, Scotty Scheffler is great.

But to say he is peerless right now, as you and I said on the podcast on Wednesday, is just wrong. Rex, defend yourself against Robert M.

first off i'd like to check the tape did either one of us say peerless i don't think i've ever used that word that is definitely an adjective that i use as relates to scotty shuffler and where he is in 2025 all right i don't like you as my ally because i don't want to particularly defend you in this particular case but i will say i believe the conversation was based on your column which you wrote uh thursday or sunday night at the pga championship that history is scotty's

really only competition now. I think I chimed in with the adage that I feel like that's Tiger Woods. And those two things are one in the same. I hate that conversation. I've been really clear about it because it's usually patently unfair. In this particular case,

It is the only gauge as far as him being peerless. No, absolutely not. Rory McIlroy has had a phenomenal season. Scotty Shuffler did not win at colonial, a place where he has had amazing success at this week. We can go down the list of places where Scotty Shuffler is not peerless. I think, I think he is a great player. He's a generational player, but it's not as though this is the difference in my mind between Scotty Shuffler and the tiger woods conversation when tiger was at the height of his powers.

If you, and this was always the funnest game to play on Wednesday night before a major championship, would you take Tiger or the field? And more times than not, I took Tiger because I just felt like that was the better bet. I don't think Scottie is quite there yet. Maybe he gets there, but I would not have said Peerless.

I did say peerless, and I don't know what other adjective you'd use because Scotty Scheffler has been named the PGA Tour Player of the Year for the last three years. We have not seen that since Tiger went three in a row.

from 2005 to 2007, if he wins it again. And I think right now that's an open question. Roy McIlroy with three wins a season, including the Masters and completing the career at Grand Slam, I think he's probably going to sway a lot of his PGA Tour peers as to what he was able to accomplish in 2025. But if Sky is able to do it, he'll be the first since, oh yeah, Tiger Woods from 1999 to 2003. So there's one aspect in which Sky Scheffler

is peerless and has been peerless to all of the players in his generation over the past 20 years. He has the best strokes gain numbers since Tiger Woods. He is peerless in that respect. He has 15 tour wins to Scottie Scheffler since February of 2022. Only Roy McIlroy and Justin Thomas of the, of the purely active players on the PGA tour have that. And they had at least a five-year headstart as it relates to what Scottie has done over this stretch. And,

Tour players like Roy McIlroy are literally modeling themselves after Scotty, how he plays the game, how he approaches it, his strategy, his ball striking. He is the gold standard right now. Yes, on a week-to-week basis, he might not be peerless, but when you look at his overall body of work, I think it's inconceivable to say that he is not at this point the Robert M.

I'm going to stand on business. And that is what I believe. How about this Rex from Michael Lawrence, three nine, nine. If golf courses can't host PJ tour events and major championships, as you, as I, as you and I suggested with quail hollow and the PJ championship, a long time event on the PJ tour. What about pebble beach? What say you?

You're talking about the jewel of American golf comparing us to Coyle Hollow. That is what Michael Lawrence is bringing up. Yeah, Michael. No, I'm not quite sure how I'm supposed to come back at that. You're comparing Pebble Beach to Coyle Hollow. Coyle Hollow is a really cool place. I think the line that you and I had was both. It's a great place.

PGA Tour venue. What Johnny Harris has done there is special. He only wants to make it better year in and year out. You know what it's not? It's not Pebble Beach. It's not even close. Pebble Beach is iconic. It is, I would put, Shinnecock, Pinehurst, Augusta. Like, there's probably, if you're going to do a mountain rush more of American golf courses, Pebble Beach is going to be on that. And I think you and I were very quick to point this out during this conversation as well. The difference is, this felt like

the Truist Championship because it was played virtually the same week as the Truist Championship. And it was set up virtually the exact same way as the Truist Championship. The difference between Pebble Beach in February for the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am and Pebble Beach in June for the U.S. Open is night and day. It's fast and firm and bouncy and the rough is so much thicker. All of the things the USGA does to juice it up. That was our argument against Quail Hollow hosting the PGA Championship.

that there was not enough separation between those two venues. That's my reason.

Take that, Michael. I'm not even sure that I have anything to add at this point. Like, let's not confuse an American treasure like Pebble Beach with Quail Hollow. Thank you for your question, Michael. We appreciate that. A great PGA Tour venue. But, like, Pebble Beach is short by today's standards, but the conditions are so variable. As you mentioned, a significant shift in what you could potentially face in February and June that can still test today's players. Also, no one gets sick of seeing Pebble Beach. I think everyone would be sick of seeing Quail Hollow.

on a year to year basis. If it was also hosting major championships, that's nothing about the design. Like it's just a one dimensional style of play, which is obviously not what happens at Pebble beach. And you mentioned it.

Like what the biggest flaw of the Quail Hollow PGA was, was that the setup was not different enough. What you typically see on a PGA tour schedule. I'm out on it. That's the last we're going to discuss it. At least for a couple more years when Quail Hollow gets undoubtedly named. I don't know. Another major championship venue, Ryder Cup. Who knows what the club is going to host. This one finally wrecks from our friend, Jason Grant, 19, who said seven minutes, seven minutes into the pod,

Before you get to the golf delay, the chit chat to the end Rex, I'm not sure about this. Jason clearly does not want you to shine after your big week at the sports Emmys. I feel like he was new to the pod as well. Cause that's not out of the ordinary. I think you and I will stumble through things before we finally get to the meat of golf. And yes, I felt like we had many things to cover. I didn't do it right. I had gone through it in my head because what I wanted to say was,

was I understand now where Rory was coming from. When Rory won the Masters and he said that he had reached the top of the mountain in his profession, I made it clear on this pod numerous times, I don't understand what that must feel like. I now understand what that must feel like because I have reached the top of the mountain in my profession, having now won an Emmy. I mean, Rory's not showing up for work this week at the Memorial Tournament.

And yet you're still putting your pants on just like everybody else. Sure. You're still putting those foot joy polos on.

And you're doing Todd Lewis's job as a golf central reporter at Mirafield village. Jason, we certainly appreciate your critique. We really do. Unfortunately, this is our podcast and we can do whatever it is that we want to do. All right. That is going to do it for this edition. The golf show podcast with Rex and lab Rex, and I'll be back on Wednesday for another preview edition of the Memorial term. Rex is also heading up to Ohio. Thanks for listening. Thanks for the support. We'll talk to you guys in a couple of days.

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