The Tiger & Charlie Show was silly-season golf at its finest
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Hello and welcome to this edition of the Golf Jail Podcast with Rex and Lav. And Rex, I can't believe I'm saying this, but on Sunday, December 22nd, on a day that is dominated by the NFL football, by my dispiriting fantasy football semifinal matchups, I was absolutely glued to the TV for a parent-child event on a resort course in Orlando. Certainly that had something to do with the power of Tiger Sports.

Charlie Woods with the PNC championship on both Saturday and Sunday, particularly on Sunday was incredible theater. You were out there on the Ritz Carlton golf course. What was it like for you seeing the dual in what the cloudiness, what'd you call the dual in the shade, the dual in the shade between Bernhard Langer and Jason Langer and Tiger and Charlie Woods?

Yes, I wish I was creative as Grant, the great Grantland Rice. I would have come up with something much more creative than dual, creative than dual in the shade or the two horsemen of the House of Tiger ride again. I don't know. I can come up with something better than that if I keep trying. I will say this as I sat down at my laptop and tried to type out 800 bad words last night for NBC Sports dot com. I was trying to wrap my mind around the idea that over the course of Tiger Woods' entire career, have I ever seen him that happy on the golf course?

And I couldn't come up with anything that was close. Clearly, he enjoyed 15 major championships, everything he's accomplished in his career. But I've never seen just the unbridled happiness that he had yesterday when he was walking with Charlie Woods. And I think it's because it combined his two favorite things in the world. That's competing at golf at whatever the highest level is for him at the moment. And right now, that

That is the highest level. 36 holes of scramble golf against old golfers is as high as he can reach at the particular moment and spending time with his family. He had his daughter, Sam, on the bag. His ex-wife, Evelyn, was in the crowd with her kids. It's very much a family affair, a new family, you know, kind of a new world family affair. But when you look at how much he enjoyed that, and it started, you pointed out, on the fourth hole. And you've gone to the Ritz-Carlton golf course. It's like you and I are always looking for loops.

So you don't particularly, you can't really walk all 18 because you kind of have to check in with the desk and you have to write and do some emails and stuff. And so the loop at Ritz-Carlton is one through four. And I'm standing on the fourth tee box about to beeline it back to the media center. No one saw this. Tiger Woods was actually in the port-a-john. He's going to the bathroom. And Bernard Langer's child tees off first.

And it's not until Tiger Woods kind of limps up the tee box and he and I can I know he limped up the tee box because I said something snarky to him as he was walking up and he said something mean to me back. We were just being playful in the moment. And then he kind of turns right as Charlie was hitting that tee shot on the par three. And like the look of confusion and just pure joy that erupted when everything happened so quickly, you couldn't see the ball.

actually go in the hole from the tee box. You had to kind of judge by the fan reaction. And in that moment...

Like you understood like this is the highlight, not just of his year. This is probably the highlight of his life when it comes to Tiger Woods, that your son gets his very first hole in one in this setting. You're playing alongside of him. The world is watching. And then it just kind of grew from there. Every hole seemed to have something special. Every hole, there was laughter. Every hole, there was joy. They didn't win. And that's the part that gets me because I don't know how many times you and I have written

a game story where Tiger Woods was so happy after a loss. I can say from my experience, it's never happened before. He's never been happy after a loss. I don't care how close he was. I don't care the circumstances. There was never joy. There was never smiles. There was never happiness. In this particular case, he wanted to win. I think he wanted to win more for Charlie than he wanted to win for himself. But just the idea that this, for him, is the highlight of the year, the highlight of a very, very difficult year, that's what I took away from him.

So many things to dig into there. One, what did you say to Tiger after he took a whiz? It wasn't about that. He actually moved, and we're going to get into this. I think you and I had this conversation from the Hero World Challenge when I was down there. He wasn't moving great to the point that I think both T. Lou and I reported on air that, yes, he was going to play the PNC Championship. He was being coy about if he was going to play or not, but all indications were from inside of his camp that, yes, 100% he was going to play. They didn't really expect him to play well. It's

to be quite frank. And it's because he's still fresh off his fifth micro disectomy back in September. You can tell that the injury to his leg from the car crash way back in 2021 is still impacting him. He wasn't moving well in the Bahamas. So the expectations weren't high. That went out the window.

this week. When you look at not just the way he played, the way he moved around, the way he was engaging, he seemed to be in a much better frame of mind, both physically and mentally when he arrived at the PNC championship. And I think that goes to what I just talked about. However,

Going up and down hills, especially like side hills, is still an issue for him. And at 57 years old, they're becoming an issue for me, if I'm being honest. And I said something about getting old socks is what I said. And he kind of turned to me and there was an expletive in there that wasn't very nice that I don't want to say on a family friendly podcast. But he sort of just smiled and grunted in my direction. And then like it happened almost in, you know, in rat-a-tat-tat fashion, where as soon as he says it, you hear Charlie's hit.

hit the ball you know you hear the snap of the club hitting the ball and he looks up and he's watching and he's doing the body language thing where he knows it's a good shot but he's leaning and then there was like this big pregnant pause of it seemed like 10 seconds i know it wasn't that long where everyone's sort of looking at each other because you can hear from the green the cheers and i can only imagine how cool that feels but everybody in the media center traded the same story i've never had a whole one so i can only empathize not sympathize

Yeah, certainly. I'm in the same boat as that. I loved the hole-in-one for so many things. The viral image of Charlie going like that, that went in. It immediately reminded me of Michael Block. Remember at the 2023 PGA Championship when he made the hole-in-one on 15 at Oak Hill with Roy? Oh, that went in? That was super cool for him. Tiger shove afterward of Charlie. Yeah.

Like, absolutely. It looked like he was playing on NFL Sundays. Like, he absolutely crushed him. Charlie, to his credit, did not topple over because that would have been somewhat embarrassing. But that, like, kick-started the round. And it was also a reminder somehow that Tiger has just three holes in one in competition. Arguably the greatest iron player ever has just three holes in one. He hasn't had one...

I believe in like more than a decade. He had the first one in Milwaukee. Then he had the Phoenix. And then there was another one that was not all that recent either. I was surprised that was Charlie's first. And it was also a reminder that Tiger has his three in competition. You mentioned physically how Tiger Woods looked getting up side slopes and the difficulty he may or may not have had. I thought physically he looked better than I expected.

He walked all 18 holes in the Pro-Am run on Friday, if I'm not mistaken. He walked all 36 holes in competition over the weekend at the PNC Championship. Look, again, it's hard to know exactly...

what his performance this week means. If, if anything, you and I have both played this golf course, extremely wide resort style fairways. His ball speed numbers are still in the low one seventies, which if you're looking at the PJ tour average is, is pretty low. He, he kind of hits this like,

big peeler fade in there, which is like his safety shot, which, which again, it's, he's going to be leaving himself further back than the top players on the PG tour are doing. He, he clearly wasn't totally sharp on it around the greens. Like,

it in talking to him Rex it seems like he's he's downplaying it doesn't it like exactly where his game is you know he says that he's a good cheerleader he's a good scramble partner he's not there yet in terms of competing against the best in the world but like I still thought it was pretty encouraging after a sixth overall back surgery after another surgery that puts him what over 20 for his entire career approaching his 49th birthday now in less than a week like

He still looks pretty damn good at this stage of his career, and it leads me to believe that maybe he actually can play that once-a-month schedule, at least in Tiger years. Have you ever done the hug push thing? I got to thinking about that after I saw it. Have you ever actually done that? No. I haven't. No. Why would I push someone? It's like such a jockey. It's like a jockey thing to do. Like, come on. Yeah.

And I have to admit, I was teasing with Todd Lewis about this as I think we caught up with Tiger and Team Tiger when it made the turn. And I think Charlie Woods had just missed like a 12-footer. And then Tiger had stepped in behind him against scramble format and made the putt. And I kind of made the joke that at some point, Charlie is going to get tired of this nonsense. Like, yes, it's really easy to putt when someone shows you the line on every –

Single hole. How about we switch? You go first, and I get to be the hero going forward. I thought that was pretty funny. To your point, Tiger did dismiss it, and I would have never have made this leap, and I think I was the one that asked the question in the press conference about, I know this is scramble golf. I know it's 36 holes on a resort course. We can go through all of those things, but was there anything encouraging about this week that gives you an idea that maybe next year could be different than this year and maybe the last?

Few years and Tiger, as you pointed out, was really dismissive. And the one that kind of threw me was how Charlie looked at him. Like, and I think he even said something in the middle of the press conference, like you play pretty well. Like, where's this coming from? Like even he was sort of caught with the old fashioned Tiger Woods sort of dismissing. No, we'll have to wait and see. And day by day and it's little things and all of the jockey stuff that I think you just pointed out. But it was hard.

for me not to look at the way he played. And you're right. He does kind of play that slappy little fade off the tee. That's probably not, he's not going to like that at all. He does play that fade off the tee. His iron play,

It's still really good. And you're right. The short game probably isn't where he wants it to be, but he made some crucial, crucial putts. They only parred three holes again as a scramble on a resort course, but that team only parred three holes all day long. They had the hole in one. It was an amazing performance by both them and the Langers. And we can get into that, that Benjamin button freak of nature if you want to. But when it comes to looking ahead to Tiger, I think, yes, I'm much more optimistic about

when it comes to the idea that once a month is realistic. The idea that I don't expect him to show up at Riviera and be among the favorites. That's not going to happen. It's going to be a cold golf course. There's some tough hills for him to walk there. But seeing how much progress or seeing how much different he looked just between the two weeks, between the Hero World Challenge and the PNC Championship, there's a lot of optimism there. Yeah, I think the iron play

was the part that I was most encouraged by because that's always been the hallmark of Tiger's career. And then for whatever reason, over these past two or three years, since he came back from the leg issue, like it really has not been sharp. And in 2024, it was not particularly sharp at all. I think now that we know more about the back procedure that he had and how much that had hampered him, like that was probably one of the debilitating factors and why he did not play particularly well this year. If he can get that,

sorted out. And he's clearly sort of evolved the driver game from so much speed, so much power and missing it wildly to a point where now, okay, I'm going to hit this 290 yard peeler out there. I'm going to give myself a chance to be in play. If his iron play is sharper than it has been over the past two or three years, then yeah, like you can still compete. I'm still extremely skeptical that he could win another major championship because the

the caliber of players to be going up against on the hardest golf courses imaginable, but like to be in the mix through 36, 54 holes. No, I don't think that's outside the rubble possibility. I was really impressed with like some of the

The feel shots that he had from like 75 to 125 yards where he's taken some of the spinoff. He really has to dial his distance. You know, if Charlie is is is mailing over, you know, overshooting a green or missing a green like Tiger would step up.

and and hit the quality shot that he needed to do again that's easier when you have a partner who's doing it right in front of you you can gauge your own shots off of that but i was impressed with that sort of aspect i was thinking rex two two other takeaways from the pnc for me one what does this mean for tiger's senior career because again he turns 49 at the end of december

Champions Tour eligible at the end of 2025. Yes, you do have to walk in the major championships. There's five major championships on the senior tour. Are we a year or two away from seeing Tiger, I don't know, eight, nine, ten times playing major championships both at the tour level as well as the senior tour level?

Real quick, what's wrong with Stella? Stella is inside my very small office. My in-laws are coming. The house is being cleaned. I'm unable to turn this camera around, but if I could in this very small office that I have in my house, it is an absolute war zone.

presence everywhere, wrapping everywhere. There's random chairs and tables that have been squished in here. And yes, my golden retriever is not loving the vacuum that's currently going on upstairs either. And actually, I've been remiss by doing this. Full mea culpa on me and maybe you to a certain degree. I fully expected Tiger, as you pointed out, to be in a golf cart.

like John Daly did. There's other players who are allowed to take a golf cart around this golf course. Again, it's a PGA tour champions event. It's also, you know, not an official event. I fully expected him not even to tee off on some holes because of the advantage that Charlie would get. I think 18 was a perfect example. Anybody who watched that finish tiger would hit really good drives from where he was on the tee. And then Charlie would stand up and just smoke it. And Charlie is playing a really high, beautiful draw off that tee box. And it's like,

There was no reason for Tiger to hit that shot because he knew that they really weren't going to play it as long as Charlie hit anything decent. So neither one of those things happened. I mean, I think he was engaged. He felt good about his game. To answer your question, if you would have asked me three years ago about Tiger Woods' –

PGA Tour champions career I would have made us stop down and start the podcast all over again because it would have been a ridiculous question like why are you asking me that no he has no interest in going out and winning the U.S. Senior Open no disrespect to the U.S. Senior Open or any events on the PGA Tour champions that just wasn't his speed like I couldn't imagine a day when he wanted to do that watching him not just this year but really the last couple years at this event the PNC championship and

How he engages with, look, we know he's tight with Freddie Couples and it's always fun to see those two together because I don't think Tiger has had that many people that he's truly close with throughout the entirety of his career. He talks a lot about the people he's really close with, but it's a really, really small circle. It would be John Cook,

who they essentially kind of grew up together. It would be Noda Begay, who, again, they went to college together. It would be Freddie Couples, who, by all accounts, those two text constantly. They're going at each other all the time. And I think you saw that, Marco Miriam, just the way he gets out there. And it's not even the competition, which that would be the part that you would think would draw him to that level of competition, because I still want the adrenaline rush.

I still want to feel this on a semi-regular basis, but I think it's just being in the locker room. I think it's being on the range and making fun of Freddie Couples because he had five head covers in his bag. I think it's making fun of John Daly because Tiger was going to the gym and John Daly was going to the bar. And it's the same old joke we've heard for 20 plus years. All of those things that he misses from like his younger days on the PGA Tour, that could be there for him if he wanted to turn to the PGA Tour champions. And I think it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Yeah, I don't think I don't think his outlook is quite as dire as maybe it seemed a couple of years ago. And look, his body is very much day by day. The back injury sort of was caught everyone by surprise just how bad it was that it required another procedure. The fifth micro discectomy that he has had in his career as the kinetic chain works like there's going to be issues down the line.

But again, I think the PNC from a physical standpoint, from a game standpoint, I think was a little more encouraging than we thought. I think big picture, right? When you look at the PNC championship, but again, I mentioned off the top of this podcast, like I was absolutely glued to it. And I'm going to be honest, Tiger and Charlie have played the PNC every year since 2010.

Prior to 2010, or excuse me, 2020, prior to 2020, I have never watched the PNC championship. I had, I never had any reason to do so. I wasn't interested in it this time of year. There's a lot going on. A lot of other sports. I'm looking ahead to Kapalua, whatever the case may be. But ever since 2020, I have watched. And that leads me to sort of a bigger topic and discussion of this format works.

And this format of the parent-child of the PNC Championship works because it either has to be really entertaining, which you can make the argument that's what Tiger and Charlie Woods bring on screen. And secondly, the format works because the participants care. Tiger, you mentioned this was probably the happiest you'd ever seen him on the golf course. That back nine, at least from a viewer's standpoint, it looked like he was trying to win a 16th major.

He was absolutely dialed in and intense. Again, in the grand scheme of things, does it matter who wins the PNC championship? Of course not. But it mattered deeply to the Woods family, to Tiger, to Charlie, to Sam, to Elon. It all mattered to them, and that brought a level of intensity. That is why the showdown, the Crypto.com showdown did not work.

625,000 people, according to our friend Josh Carpenter, watched the showdown last week. Like that, that does not work.

That does not work at all. Why isn't it working? Is it because it was poorly marketed? Is it because it was during the holidays? Is it because there was other things to watch? Is it because there's disinterest in this types of formats? Is it because fans have lost interest in golf because of the civil war that's been going on over the past two or three years? Like those are all questions that...

we don't have the answer to right now, but I think you can make logical conclusions that that's why the match is not resonating. That's why I think, you know, the skins game is going to be rebooted in 2025. I think there's reasons for skepticism that that's going to work because there doesn't, there, there isn't any meaning. There isn't any, any significance. There's not going to be any intensity. The participants, we,

we could probably reasonably guess are not going to really care about the outcome. If you're going to do these adjacent style events, you either have to be wildly entertaining, which is very few people in golf who can do that. Or secondly, you have to have the participants invested in it in care. I think that is the real charm of the PNC championship. And I think that's what Sunday highlighted so well.

And I would agree with that. I think it's amazing when you look back at the match, which was last week, and I was actually surprised that the viewership was as low as it was because that brought an element

that I thought that the fans wanted to see. It was the PGA Tour guys against the Live guys. Now, on the field of play, it didn't play out that way. I don't think we got the interaction between the teams, or at least that I wanted to. There was some interaction between teammates, but I wanted to hear Rory talking to Trask and Brooks and Bryson and vice versa. And that just wasn't there. You didn't get that dynamic. You and I were just at TGL Media Day.

Or I was at TGL Media Day this week. And that's sort of the topic about I'm looking forward to that first match. You and I will both be there. We'll be podcasting from there. The technology, I love. The concept, I love. But in practice, this means that Cameron Young, not to pick on Cameron Young, but he's the easy target here, needs to sit down and make people believe that he really wants to win this.

And that he has a personality that can carry a telecast even for two hours. And I think that's going to be the challenge, not just for the TGL folks, but for the ESPN folks. Yeah. And there's 40 seconds in between shots, which, which again, which is fast, by the way, I don't think that sounds, that sounds like a lot when you say a lot of 40 seconds, wow, you still hit a golf shot on that boy. You start doing your visualization. You start doing your pre-shot keys, like 40 seconds goes pretty quick. And that is going to reduce the,

The amount of banter and the quips between teammates and opponents, that goes by pretty quick. And then all of a sudden, then you're just playing golf and hitting shots into a screen, and you don't have potentially as dynamic of a product as maybe you'd anticipated.

But to your point about the PNC championship, yes, Tiger brought new life to it because it's been around for a long time. Tiger and Charlie Wood did not invent the PNC championship, but it brought a level of interest that wasn't there before. I will turn this back on you. And as soon as you said you were sort of locked in on Saturday and Sunday, I scoffed a little bit. If those first round wins,

of college football playoff games are a little bit better my guess is your focus is elsewhere i don't know that you're exactly locked you have seen you have seen my backyard setup i have two 75 inch televisions yes one of those one of those televisions was on red zone yes one of those televisions was on the college football playoff but the sound was being piped into the second tv and i was watching the entire thing i wrote a i wrote a story on mbc sports.com

slash golf on Saturday since you were not out there for the opening round. And I watched every single shot of that final round on Peacock with the sound piped in. We had people over. They were locked in as well. Like, that should never – that ordinarily would never happen. I might have it on the TV, you know, if Tiger weren't playing, right, just to have golf on, just to see what's happening. But, like –

To me, I'm very curious to see what the ratings were because, again, there was a lot going on, a lot of competition. It's a few days before Christmas. I get it. I'm not anticipating this to put up Masters-type numbers. To me, that is as good as you can get for silly season golf. For golf adjacent, this time of year, that showdown between those characters and the intensity that he brought to try and win, I couldn't get enough of it. I really couldn't.

And you also had no reason to pay attention to the NFL because let's be frank, your fantasy team has been done for a long time. Well, when you have six or seven teams, if you count my wife's team, no, there's still plenty of opportunities. Unfortunately, it did not go well for me on Sunday. Rex, we are a couple of days away from Christmas at this point. What do you have going on for the big day?

We're going to take some time off, as you pointed out. And as you know, it's been a really busy season. We stay home. We don't go anywhere. It's funny. I was talking with Todd Lewis about this, and he's going to Carolina to visit his parents, and then he goes straight to Maui. Like, it's a really busy time of year, but I look forward to it just kind of being a quiet time of year. The word is, I don't know this to be true, but there's a big box underneath my tree, and the secret is it's a new grill, a new smoker. So I got that going on. I think my wife actually got you a grill. Would you like to see it?

I would like to see it for those who are watching on YouTube. We'll have to send it to you. I'll show it to you later. Okay, fair enough. Will you be redeeming yourself, Rex, after your embarrassing performance from Thanksgiving in which you used an oven?

Which I used an oven. I don't know. Maybe. I think, like I pointed out, I think Santa is bringing me a new grill. So the idea that I could actually try to smoke a turkey for the first time or something else on the new grill. It's fun. We have some traditions in our house. We go over to my sister-in-law's for Christmas Eve dinner. And so that's kind of a big deal. And then my wife makes this huge...

breakfast for everyone and then everyone comes to our house on christmas morning for that and then we go over to my mother and father-in-law's for the dinner that yeah that evening so we it's kind of a fractured thing it's tough when you live in the neighborhood you know how to

I do know how it is. This is like a 48 hour Christmas for the ladders. As soon as we end this record, I'll be braving the elements, brave the crowds at Costco, where I'll be picking up some seafood for our Christmas extravaganza. Our are my in-laws are coming. My brother and sister-in-law will be here as well. But everyone leaves by like 10 a.m.

And so by early afternoon, Christmas is over. The kids are already over their toys. They're back on their iPads. At least this year we're going to have NFL football to watch. But like I'll start taking down decorations. Christmas is over. Let's let's let's move on. It's been a long holiday season. Our decorations have been up since since like November 1st. We're going out of town for a couple of days to Delray Beach where my in-laws are a couple of days after Christmas. Like, come on, let's let's go ahead and turn the page. And I do that cruelly.

on on christmas day in the afternoon no no one has said anything yet the kids the kids have never been like hey what's what's going on with the tree nope everyone leaves christmas is over i have no problem tree down on christmas day adios by by dinner time on christmas by dinner time on christmas there was no semblance that there was christmas earlier that day it's done by 10

The presents are opened. I've already cooked the Blackstone breakfast. Everyone's gone. The house is a wreck. The kids are already bored. We're moving on. This is why I always say that Thanksgiving is a better day.

I think Christmas. I actually think Christmas Eve. I think Christmas Eve is the culmination of the holiday season. And then Christmas basically just falls off a cliff. You open presents. It's all about the kids, which is great. We have breakfast. And then you move on. You always turn the page. And my wife makes a really elaborate breakfast for the entire family. And they usually show up here at 6.30 or 7 o'clock, some godly hour, so the kids can open up all their presents. And I will say that Christmas –

day dinner at my in-laws is really good. Again, they're from New Orleans, so it's a lot of different things. We've kind of talked about this before. You have turkey, but you have something called melatonin, which is sort of a type of dressing, which is kind of made out of cauliflower and a lot of cheese and a lot of cream. You have oyster dressing, which is absolutely delicious. It's a really good meal. It's just not what you expect. I like that as well. You usually have beef tenderloin. This year, we're doing lobster tails, scallops,

New Orleans-style barbecue shrimp all while watching NFL games. It should be a great Christmas. Happy holidays to you and yours, everybody listening. We always appreciate the support that you guys have shown this podcast and shown us. We will hopefully, Rex, have a big announcement to make in early 2025 regarding this podcast. How about that for a little bit of a teaser? Good to see you.

Merry Christmas. We will talk to you guys next week for a full recap of Christmas as well as some end-of-year content for 2024 and a season preview for 2025. Sausage fingers up before we go. This is my ending, but you can now have the floor.

Yeah, no, sorry about this. I meant to slide this in earlier in the show and didn't mean to step all over your finish, which was fine. You were nailing it. However, the fans are so good about letting us know what you think about the pod. So we were trying to come up with an option. We want to do like a year ending pod. We did this last year with Todd Lewis and we're more than welcome to invite Todd back.

We have a buzzer for him once he breaks into TV, Todd, because no one wants that on the podcast. However, I'm going to throw it to the fans. Would you rather have Todd Lewis, who is our friend of the pod, he's our friend in life, we enjoy being around him, Steve Sands, who we have had on earlier in the year. Steve Sands has stories, if you guys remember. He was a lot of fun. Or there's a third option, and I don't think anyone is going to go for this, but I want to throw it out there. Our friend, your friend, Andrew Bradley.

He is a field producer for the Golf Channel. He is the field producer for the Golf Channel. We have never had him on, and I think that dude would have stories that people would want to hear, so let us know. Nothing like a plea in soliciting reader, viewer, and listener input at the 28-and-a-half-minute mark of what is a 29-minute podcast. But again, do let us know in the comments section below. You guys let us know everything else.

How about our next podcast guest as well? All right. You guys are the drill. In the meantime, NBCSports.com slash golf. Happy holidays. Thanks for listening. Thanks for the support. We'll talk to you guys next week. She got you a grill. Lights are going up. Snow is falling down. There's a feeling of goodwill around town. It could only mean one. McRib is here.

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