The U.S. Ryder Cup captain just won a big event. Now what?
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Hello and welcome into this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lav. Well, the Ryder Cup is three months away, but it feels like the Americans...

are already one up. And one of the most unlikely finishes of the year, Keegan Bradley flipped the script on Tommy Fleetwood on the 72nd hole and stole the travelers championship all while the fans at TPC river Highlands were chanting USA, USA Rex. That certainly felt like a moment at TPC river Highlands. Didn't it? I,

I don't know if the U.S. won on Sunday at the Travel Championship, but it certainly seems like New England won with Keegan winning for the second time. He clearly was the favorite, Tommy. Fleetwood talked about it a little bit afterwards, that if you're going to play anybody on a Sunday at TPC River Highlands, that guy's going to get all of the attention. It would be fun. You're right. There was a lot of right a couple of undertones to this throughout the day, all the way to the 72nd hole, which is when

And Keegan Bradley did what Keegan Bradley seems to do now in these pressure packed situations. I was wildly impressed with two things. It kind of struck me one as I'm watching Tommy Fleetwood come down the stretch.

I kept thinking to myself as I'm looking at the stats and watching him play, like, how is he not one? Like, we're going to get into this a little bit later in the podcast. He is by far the best player not to have a PGA Tour title. I don't even think I jotted down Cam Young as sort of second place only because I couldn't come up with another name that I felt like was even significantly close. And it looked as if Tommy was making it look easy.

he looked relaxed. He was doing what Scotty Scheffler always does. I think at one point he was picking up almost 11 shots on the field strokes came to green. It was a very Scotty Scheffler esque performance right up until it wasn't, but two bogeys coming down over his last three holes. He just looked uncomfortable. He, he talked about it afterwards, the idea that he didn't execute like he needed to. And that's really the difference. When you look at what Tommy Fleetwood does well and,

the putting can be a little inconsistent, but every other part of his game is world-class by any measure. It's the only way you can justify this. The only way you can explain this is that somehow he has a hard time struggling going down the stretch. Six runner-up finishes. It's not as though he hasn't had opportunities and he hasn't gotten it done. When it comes to Keegan, and we're going to have the Ryder Cup conversation later, it's amazing what he's been able to do. My guess is if you go back and you start talking to the PGA of America, they're

that when they first started having the conversation about Keegan Bradley being the next captain, I don't think they envisioned this. I don't think they saw this as – I don't want to call it a complication because it's a good problem to have where he has to worry about being a next captain. It's definitely a complication.

Yeah, I think that's the way I would put it. But it is a good problem to have right now that if you have a captain that is playing so well that he can legitimately say, yes, I should be in the mix. He was 17th on the U.S. points list before he won. My guess is he probably moved somewhere close to 12, 11, somewhere around there, at least right on the edges of being sort of in that conversation. I don't know that he can do it. Again, we're going to have the conversation about him being a Ryder Cup captain, but he's certainly playing well enough to be on that team right now.

I mean, to use one of your favorite phrases like Keegan Bradley deserves a monsoon of credit because these Ryder Cup appointments and Sunday at the Travelers Championship, ironically enough, was actually the one year anniversary of when he got the call from the PGA of America that he was going to be tapped potentially as Ryder Cup captain Beth Bates Black in fall 2025. These Ryder Cup appointments are supposed to be a death knell.

They are supposed to be an acknowledgement that your playing days are over and that you're uncompetitive and you're not going to be a member of the 12-man team. And so you can then devote essentially a year and a half of your life to making the American Ryder Cup team in your own form, in your own sort of putting your stamp on it, molding it to your own liking. I understand that the PGA of America in this instance in picking Keegan Bradley broke precedent at the time.

Keegan was a top 20 player in the world the previous year. He had won a signature event on the PGA Tour the previous year. He was 11th in points before he was passed over by Captain Zach Johns for the team that eventually went to Rome and lost. But this is still, Rex, like an extraordinary achievement.

for this player to even be in the conversation to now be either a playing captain or relinquish the captain or pick himself. Or if he could, you know, he could potentially, depending on how he plays these final two months of the season with a major championship still to play with the FedEx Cup playoffs. So the trade, so the play make it in the top six and automatically qualify for his own team. Like this is a guy who is supposed to be distracted, right?

and has his mind occupied by so many other things. And yet inside the ropes,

He's as good as he's ever been. He was 21st in the world entering the Travelers Championship. He had a top 10 of the PGA Championship. This was now his third top 10 finish in a signature event on the PGA Tour. It is incredible that he has been able to compartmentalize these two roles in his life, being a highly competitive player on the PGA Tour and also competing

at least at this time, entering the Travelers Championship thinking that he was going to be captaining this U.S. Ryder Cup team in a hugely consequential moment and year for the U.S. Ryder Cup team.

And when you write this story of Keegan Bradley's career, when everything is said and done, and that's a really good point that when you become a Ryder Cup captain, you're not supposed to be competing anymore. The job is supposed to be so consuming. You're supposed to have your days filled with the mundane things of picking out uniforms and thinking about lineups. And he still does. That's that's the amazing thing. He's still doing that while all I get such a high level.

But when we tell the story of his life after the fact, imagine how many times, how many chapters there's been, how many 1.0s, how many 2.0s, how many 3.0s. Talking about a guy who won a PGA championship early in his career using an anchored putter. And then everything changed when the USGA and the RNA decided, nope, we're not going to allow this anymore. And he essentially reinvented himself.

And kept his tour card, remained one of the world's best players on the PGA Tour on a consistent basis for nearly two decades now. And now he's gotten to the point where he's going to be a Ryder Cup captain, a guy that just a few years ago should have been an obvious pick for U.S. Ryder Cup team and wasn't. So in my mind, this is all part of the arc that is Keegan Bradley's sort of career. I don't know where it lands on the playing captain thing. And I think I've told this story before, but when...

The European tour, which runs the Ryder Cup, when they went back to Luke Donald to ask him to give it a second go after Rome. This is just a few months after Rome. It was actually early in the year, last year. They went back. They made their pitch. Luke agreed.

That night, it just turns out, Luke Donald was having a party at his house in South Florida. Keegan Bradley was there. He had agreed to take the captain's job again, and there was an official who was having a conversation. Rory McIlroy was also at this party. And Rory made the comment something along the lines of he would like to captain when the Ryder Cup goes to Adair Manor in Ireland two years from now. And of course he would. That's what he said.

That, to me, sounds like the dream scenario. Can you imagine Rory on one sideline and Tiger on the other? We can go through this all we want. The official from the European tour, however, turned it on him and said, do you remember how you felt on the Monday after the Ryder Cup last year? Wrong. And Rory was like, yes, I was exhausted. And he goes, all you had to do was play.

You didn't have to do any of the other work that goes into making a Ryder Cup a Ryder Cup. The biggest sporting event in golf, one of the biggest sporting events in the year. It really hit home. And I think if you use sort of the litmus test or you use the example, the comp of Tiger Woods captaining the President's Cup team, yes.

It can be done. But we can all agree that's a vastly different animal, that things don't move as fast. You don't have the same amount of pressures. He had a lot of people around him, including Fred Couples and Steve Stricker and all of his friends who had been there before to sort of help him along so he could focus on playing. Because there's going to be things that as a playing captain, Keegan's going to have to do while he's actually playing. I don't know how you do that. And keep in mind, for the 2019 President's Cup where Tiger was the playing captain, the Americans were trailing.

into the final day like that could have been looking at a u.s law said they not staged a pretty incredible rally you know sort of led by woods himself on that file day at royal melbourne as it relates to playing captain i don't think there would actually be a situation where he'd be a playing captain i think he would have to relinquish the captaincy well that's a different conversation though you know what i mean right like but i don't know what we're talking about but i

But I don't think he would be a playing captain. I don't think that's really on the table. You look back at what happened last year at the President's Cup at Royal Montreal. Keegan Bradley, remember, was an assistant captain for that team. But once it became clear, once he won the BMW Championship, once he was an obvious pick for Jim Furyk, it became, okay, you focus on what you need to do inside the ropes. Leave all of the backroom stuff to me. We can fill you in afterward, you know,

putting him in a position where he's half player, half captain, half leader, half motivational speaker, half logistical sort of negotiator, like a navigator, that's not going to work. So I see a situation where if Keegan Bradley puts himself in a position where again, he's either automatically qualifying or it becomes blatantly obvious to everyone that he would make this, this U S Ryder cup team much better than,

on the surface, if he is a player, then I think he should relinquish the captaincy and put himself in a position where he's guaranteed a spot down the road, whether it's in 2027, whether it's in 2029 or beyond, I don't know. But it's clear that if the U.S. needs him,

needs a player of his caliber, he should be as a player and forget and leave sort of the captaincy to someone else. Brant Sedecker, to me, makes a lot of sense. He's already going to be captaining the President's Cup team in 2026. He was filled in early as an assistant captain, a vice captain for this U.S. Ryder Cup team. He's sort of familiarized himself

with how the backroom staff and support needs to work and sort of been keeping up to speed with all the logistical headaches that go along with a home Ryder Cup. Let him handle that if it becomes blatantly obvious that he needs to be on this team. I don't think a playing captain, though, would ever work in this scenario.

This just in from Jason Gold. Thank you, Goldie, for this. Keegan Bradley just now on Golf Central said, quote, I will play in the Ryder Cup. I will play if I feel like it will help the team. Full stop. He also added that he would not relinquish the captaincy in that scenario. It would be just more on his assistance. So I understand what you're saying. I tend to agree with what you're saying, that

If he does decide to play, whether if he qualifies for the team or if he makes himself a pick, which is an entirely different conversation than I think what we started out last year when he took over.

The line last year when he took over was I wouldn't make myself a pick. If I qualify for the team, then yes, I'll play. But now it seems like he's inching more and more towards that territory. I tend to agree with what you just said. I don't think someone can do both in the modern era. Again, Tiger Woods at the President's Cup at Royal Melbourne was an entirely different animal. This, the Ryder Cup, is, again, one of the largest sporting events in the world. Not golf events. One of the largest sporting events in the world.

And there is no way that he'll be able to make those decisions that he needs to make. No. I mean, imagine Rex, like the, the, the second guessing, uh,

in the Monday morning quarterbacking if he was a playing captain, if he was trying to do two jobs and not doing either of them particularly well. You have to be fully invested in one role, whether it's as a captain or whether it's as a player. I don't see him splitting time, regardless of what he's saying three months out. I don't see that happening.

As I think when you look at sort of the U.S. Ryder Cup team at this point, I think a couple of months ago, there was some hand-wringing about like, whoa, I hope the Americans start to play better because right now, you know, the Europeans are on an epic run of form. You know, Roy won the Masters. Ludwig looked dominant. Sepp Strzoka has won a couple of events in 2025. The list goes on and on. I think as we sit here now three months out, like the team is shaping up.

Pretty nicely. Like in my opinion, there are six players who are locked for this team. Sky Scheffler, Xander Shoffley, JJ Spahn, Bryce DeChambeau, Patrick Cantlay, and Justin Thomas. To me, those are my six players.

Three other players I think should be locks for this team. That's Colin Morikawa, Russell Henley, and Sam Burns. Two other players that I would pick either because of their course history, either because of their match play experience. I know you're going to get the Ryder Cup experience or the current form. I would put Jordan Spieth and Harris English on that team. Again, we're doing this online.

Three months out right there is 11 players already spoken for. And so I think you have a Keegan Bradley who's sitting atop a tier of players who's like a Ben Griffith and Andrew Novak, a Matt McDeeley, a Cam Young.

players of that ilk. Could you, would you make a case for Keegan Bradley? Oh, definitively. Yeah. I would put Keegan Bradley on that team over those players, but I don't think it's a slam dunk. Like is Keegan Bradley replaceable as a player or,

Probably. I mean, he's got a pretty epic run of form as it sits right now. He just won a signature event at a golf course that might not bear much resemblance to Beth Page Black, but he just beat the top players on the PGA Tour three months out. I think that I certainly think that that means something. But as a captain, as a leader, his passion for the event, I still think Rex, as I sit here right now, I think that I would want him as a captain to

And not as a player, as strange as that sounds, after he just won the Travelers Championship. I get what you're saying. The one line that I kind of made when it comes to, and I only make this line because we know Luke Donald is a good captain. He proved that in Rome. I think he's going to prove it again at Bethpage. It's going to be a tough job for whoever is captain of that U.S. team. Clearly, the PG of America saw something in Keegan Bradley. They wanted to zig when they had been zagging for a long time. He was not on anyone's short list.

when they named him captain. I'm not even saying that's a bad thing. They saw something and it may play out, but we don't know. He's very much an unknown commodity. You only get really one turn at this if you're a Keegan Bradley. And so you only have one opportunity. I'm not quite sure. He's in a difficult position. I think we said it was complicated. I'll even go so far as to call it difficult only because Keegan

This is a dream gig for him. I mean, you and I both have interviewed him since he took over. And this means the world to him. We all know what the Ryder Cup means to him, the passion that he has for those matches. Now he's in a position where he could possibly play. Again, I keep falling back to, I just don't see how he can do both. He can maybe keep playing,

Keep the job and name that you're the captain, but someone else is going to step in, whether that's Snedeker or one of the other vice captains. But I don't see him being able to logistically pull off both. You're having to make decisions in real time while in theory you would be on the golf course. That is impossible in my mind. And I think there's two potential X factors. One, when would Keegan Bradley then potentially relinquish the duties? I certainly wouldn't wait.

to the end of the FedExCup playoffs to see where he eventually shakes out. Like that determination, the potential handing over the keys to someone else on his backroom staff to be the Ryder Cup captain full stop, I think would have to happen sooner rather than later to get them fully up to speed. And secondly, at the second X factor, is what happens if the players on the team

The U.S. Ryder Cup team, whether it's Scottie Scheffler, whether it's Xander Shoffley, Justin Thomas, et cetera. What if they essentially tell him you have to be on this team, that you you might not want to relinquish this this dream job? Right. You may just feel like you're one of 12 and that you may be replaced by someone else, a Ben Griffin type.

to round out this 12-man team. But if Scottie Scheffler goes to him and says, we absolutely have to have you on this team, how does that sort of change the calculus of

for Keegan and his backroom staff and the PGA of America. Cause I think that's an important thing as well. They saw what Keegan Bradley brought to the team at the president's cup last fall at Royal Montreal. It's the first time he'd been in on a U S team in a decade. He, he could be a potentially huge influence in that team room, not just as a player, but,

but as a leader as well. So I think that's certainly a conversation to be had. It's certainly an unprecedented situation. And again, I think Keegan deserves a lot of credit for even making this a conversation. We sort of glossed over him, even though Rex, it was certainly a compelling back and forth Sunday at TPC River Highlands. But Tommy Fleetwood, this is a player who's trying to win for the first time on the PGA Tour in 159 events.

Uh, shoots a final round 72 and up and down day. Looked like he was going to kick it away early, steadied himself, and then ended up with a two shot swing on the last to lose by one to Keegan Bradley. Uh, you certainly feel gutted for him, but what did you take away from Tommy Fleetwood Sunday in particular?

Well, again, I'll go back to, I kept thinking to myself as he got further and further along on the back nine, I don't know how he hasn't done this because he looked like he was on autopilot. It looked like he was going to cruise to that victory and actually make it look easy. Now in retrospect, and I think this goes back to

Sometimes I think we dismiss how difficult it is to win on the PGA Tour against the best players in the absolute world. I think the PGA Tour had sort of dismissed that to a certain degree. It's why they had to rework the FedExCup points last year, because they realized that we're not giving enough to the people who are winning and finishing at the top of the field as opposed to the people who are finishing in the back half of the field. I'll also say, and this is an opportunity to get on the soapbox, we do know how Tommy Fleetwood feels right now. We do know the emotions behind

Upset, angry, didn't have my best stuff. It hurts. All of those are things, words that he used when he spoke with the media on Sunday night at TPC River Highlands. He sat, he sat, stopped and took, I believe it was eight different questions. Yes. Let's give him a round of applause because it's become an issue. And he made it clear that, yes, I probably want to go away right now and pout.

I want to be a bit of a brat right now, and this isn't what I'd like to do, but I'm going to stand here and do it because that's what professionals do. We're having this conversation a lot lately when it comes to the game stars, but here's a player in Tommy Fleetwood who –

I would argue is as devastated as anyone in that situation, because you finally, as you pointed out in 159 attempts, had a chance of doing something that you haven't been able to do and you booted away on the last hole. So good for Tommy first and foremost, too. We do know how he's feeling. He was really honest and said, look, I'm going to learn a lot from this. I'm not going to focus on the negatives. I'm not going to let this drag me down. I'm not going to let this impact my next start, which probably be the Scottish open and then the open championship after that. And I'm going to figure out the things I did well.

And I'm going to work harder on those things. And then I'm going to figure out the things I did wrong and try to fix those. And he did plenty wrong coming down the stretch. I think he simplest terms, I would say he just got tentative, but we know that because he stopped and spoke with the media. And now the fans know that as well.

Yeah, I mean, obviously full credit to Tommy Fleetwood for Face the Music. Cam Young did a similar thing a couple of weeks ago after booting it. The RBC Canadian Open with what he thought was a perfectly played 72nd hole. So again, when these guys do it, we learn more. We have a greater understanding. We have greater context of what they're going through as players and a greater context of what their performance means.

in the grand picture credit to Tommy Fleetwood. When I look at sort of the difficulty of winning on the PGA tour and the numbers as it relates to Tommy Fleetwood are pretty gaudy. Like he has more than $30 million in earnings on the PGA tour without a win, uh, six runner up finishes, which I believe is just one shy of cam young's total of seven, which is the most since the PGA tour began keeping statistics in

of that 1983 42 top 10 finishes, which is by far the most

of any player without a win again since the PGA Tour began keeping statistics in 1983. The pressure to win on Sunday, and I understand the conditions were difficult. You had the West Cross wins, so you had a lot of cross wins across TPC River Highlands. That made it more difficult. The scoring wasn't quite as good on Sunday. But Tommy Fleetwood had made just a single bogey through 54 holes of the Travelers Championship. He made five.

on Sunday, including two in the last three holes. What do you think Rex was the most egregious mistake? The one that would keep him up on Sunday night and have him sort of ruining and lamenting what could have been.

I applaud you. You actually physically applauded Tommy Fleetwood for actually speaking to the media. And then our friends in the media didn't ask the one question that I felt like needed to get asked. Because if I went to one thing over the course of that final round is what did he and his caddy Ian talk about in the middle of the 18th fairway? Why did he switch clubs? What club did he go to? Why did he feel like I think on the broadcast, they seem to think that he went down nine. It was from nine to a pitching wedge.

Yes. Okay. So why did, did he catch a gust? Did he feel like that the nine was going to bring the back into play and with the thick, the rough was that was going to be a much harder up and down. It was a very timid putt.

Up the hill from just off the green short, and he left himself way too much. And I would even say the par attempt was very timid. There's a bunch of things I think you can point to probably just being indecisive in these situations. If I had to think about exactly what he's going to sort of ruminate on and the things that he wants to fix, he was indecisive when he needed to step up and execute the shot.

I mean, Tommy Fleetwood is one of the game's flushers. Like if you stand and watch him on the range, he is appointment viewing. Like every single iron shot, it seems, is square out of the middle of the club face. And yet on 16 and on 18 Sunday at the Travelers Championship, he twice missed the green from inside 155 yards. You know, for a player of his caliber, even in pretty tricky, windy conditions, he's

that has to absolutely sting and absolutely has to have him second guessing exactly what went wrong. You mentioned the number of close calls that Tommy Fleetwood has had over the years and the six runner finishes. I've sort of been shocked by that. He hasn't really put himself in

in this position all that often you know we see what the stats are right we see the runner-up finishes we see the top fives we see the top tens but we're talking about genuine opportunities to win golf tournaments on the pg tour he really hasn't had that many a couple years ago the canadian open obviously he lost in the playoff to nick taylor that's sort of the one that immediately comes to mind but this was the first time at least in 2025 that

that he has had a realistic opportunity, was realistically in contention, led the golf tournament with one hole to play. The PGA Tour comms department, in what sort of seemed like an ominous sign of the day, right? The players went off in threesomes off split teams because of morning storms in Cromwell, Connecticut. The PGA Tour comms department sent out a stat sort of comparing how players in the final group

had compared and contrasted with their experience in the final group with Keegan Bradley, Russell Henley, and Tommy Fleetwood. The insinuation seemed to be, the suggestion, Rex, seemed to be, because when you look at the stats, Tommy Fleetwood was going to back up.

Because that's what history told us that Tommy Fleetwood was going to do. Again, according to a tweet sent out by the PGA Tour comms department. This was only the sixth time Tommy Fleetwood had been in the final group. Only one of those times had he shot a final round under par. His scoring average was 71.4. That was about two and a half shots higher than Russell Henley and about a shot higher than

than keegan bradley so this wouldn't have have quite been a a rory you know relief catharsis release on the 18th green but there was certainly some demons that tommy fleetwood was going to have to overcome and i think now that the scar tissue has has been compiled a little bit a little bit higher no and it's going to take a minute to rebound from this i mean he tom

Tommy Fleetwood is one of the game's most engaging players. I wasn't surprised that he stopped and talked with the media and everyone else that wanted to talk before he left TPC River Highlands. And I think he said all the right things, but that doesn't make it any easier. Like, especially if you're a player of Tommy Fleetwood's ilk.

and someone who has accomplished so much in his career. And we always compare performances at the Ryder Cup. We did this with Ludwig Oberg about the idea that, oh, he's playing in the Ryder Cup before he actually played in a major championship. We compare it to these pressure-packed situations. And we've seen Tommy time and time again

execute at the Ryder Cup when he's playing for continent, when he's playing for the flag, when he's playing for his teammates. And yet somehow when you put him in this situation, it's as simple as, as him just not executing coming down the stretch. There's a lot of other words you can probably use to describe his performance, but that's the one that stood out to me. Yeah. I don't think it's necessarily like a, a clutchness issue. As you mentioned, he's won seven times, uh,

on the European tour. He's been a stalwart for the European Ryder Cup team. The only thing I can think of is that he's won just twice overall in the last six years.

And so he's sort of remembering how to win. And again, he has not had a bevy of chances on the PGA tour and, and failed to get it done. You know, he hasn't sort of kicked away tournaments before in this manner. I think he's gonna learn a lot from it. Like you look at the amount of talent that he has and the shot making ability, like he's going to win on the PGA tour, but Sunday's like he had the travelers championship. I certainly think just make it a little bit harder. All right. We'll come back to the travelers championship.

at the end of the show, but we'll have Amy Rogers on the other side of this short break. PGA Frisco in searing hot temperatures made for some really grumpy players. Amy Rogers coming right up. And we're pleased to be joined now by Amy Rogers, Golf Channel Insider, who is covering the KPMG Women's PGA Championship all week for us. Amy, first of all, how would you describe the week? It was hot. It was so hot. It

It really felt like survival of the fittest. One caddy was telling me that as they headed into the weekend, it felt like they were just in survival mode. You know, they really thought even par might win this thing. That's just how tough it was out there. Not only heat indexes and triple digits, you had wind gusts of 30, 40 miles an hour on the weekend. And then combined with

a tough test out there the first time these women competing at PGA Frisco just made for a combination of really tough elements. It was tough for all of us being out there just braving the heat all week. So that's the first thing that comes to mind, the heat.

And I want to get to Minji Lee's victory. It was pretty impressive. As you pointed out, it looked like that was a grind coming down the stretch, but this is kind of the first time we've had an opportunity to actually see Frisco and it's going to host major championships in the future. This is going to the PGA of America's crown jewel as a major championship venue. What was your takeaway?

I have to say I was pretty surprised. It really was not what I expected for a major championship venue. In years past, the KPMG Women's PGA Championship had really prided itself on taking this championship to historic venues, some of the most popular in the game of golf, in order to elevate the women's game, to be able to showcase their talent and abilities on the biggest stages

In the game. And so to head to this venue where there really wasn't any sort of history was just very much a big question mark. It definitely didn't have that sort of beauty or aura about it that we've seen at a lot of the venues where they hosted this championship in years past.

And it very much felt like as the week was going on, they were kind of feeling their way through the setup, kind of figuring out what did and didn't seem to be working. I didn't see too many adjustments along the way, but there were certainly, you know, some concerns from players about the setup. And I don't know how much, you know, wind was a factor there, but certainly having, you know, extensive weights, you know, three groups backed up on holes throughout the course, you

was a problem when temperatures are 100 degrees and obviously impacted the pace of play. And so coming away from it, yeah, I'm a little surprised at the experience and what we saw with it as a major championship venue for the women. Amy, just to follow up on that, when Rex and I are hearing sort of player complaints or criticism about the setup, we always love that because we love these players who are the best in the world actually giving their thoughts online.

on what sort of non-professionals are doing in terms of the setup. Did you feel like this was a setup issue? Was this a golf course issue at PGA Frisco? Or was this players who are used to going low being tested in ways that they typically don't throughout the season and thus were caught off guard a little bit?

No, not at all. I think they relish these tough tests, and you hear that a lot. I mean, you look at what they have played in the past, what they had even at Aaron Hills with the U.S. Open. I think what we were hearing from some of the players, and Bethann Nichols reported on this from Nellie Korda yesterday, she talked about just –

Nellie's saying their ball flight is just different than it is for the men. They can't get the ball as high to land it as softly on some of these greens with some of these hole locations. When you're combining that with a 35 mile an hour wind, they're trying to flight the ball down. And so then they can't hold some of these greens. So I think some of those things weren't necessarily taken into consideration. I spoke with a volunteer on the range this morning. He said this was

not typical for this time of year in this area to have these high winds. He said, it's usually pretty still. He said, it's usually, you know, these winds are typically more what they see in March. So I don't know if that was part of the disconnect where the setup was more for a calmer, you know, sort of weather expected for the week, but we saw this several days in a row that you think then maybe we would have seen a sort of, you know, some sort of adjustment. So I definitely don't think it's any sort of griping on the part of the

players. They relish a tough test. And I think they just felt like good shots weren't being rewarded. Maybe we don't play a major championship in Texas in June, mid-June. I'm just going to go out on a limb and say it. You talk about being tough. You talk about wanting to play the best players in the world, wanting to play in tough conditions. No one was tougher than Minji Lee. What impressed you the most about her this week?

Yeah, just so steady, just so unflappable, as we've come to know from Minji Lee. And it had been about two years since we had seen her in the winner's circle. She came pretty close last year at Lancaster Country Club. But it was really interesting. I spoke with Minji's mom on the 18th green just after her win today. And she said that that was a really tough one for Minji. And she used the word collapse.

and describing what her daughter had done at that U.S. Women's Open. So to be able to come back out here and to get this win, she said, was particularly important for Minji. What's really interesting, too, is Minji actually lives in the area, but she instead chose to stay at a hotel this week. And her mom is staying in Minji's house. So her mom was telling me that each day she was getting up at 3 a.m., cooking Minji all her food and meals. And then she was

shuttling them over to her so that she would have them for the week. And so her mom telling me I basically didn't sleep all week as she was helping her daughter out. But she said it was so nerve wracking just watching her today as, you know, Minji got off to a difficult start to her round today, made quite a few bogeys early. And and her mom told me, I thought that this was going to be what we saw at Lancaster again. And so she was so relieved to see that her daughter was able to pull out the win this time.

Amy, that's now three different major championships for Minji Lee. Why doesn't she seem to warrant the same sort of attention as a Nelly Cora or Lydia Ko or Gino Titical when players are talking about the strength and the superstars of the LPGA, despite her credentials certainly warranting that?

Well, I think it's just now with her getting this third major, Bethann Nichols and I were standing behind the green at 18 and kind of looked at each other like, well, this is the third different major now. And I think when you get that third one, you sort of move into the different class. We saw that with Lydia Coe when she won the AIG Women's Open last year. And she suddenly was like,

wow, the Grand Slam's kind of like in reach. This is a possibility for me now, you know? And so I think it kind of moves these players into a different class where we've seen a lot of players with one major or two majors, but suddenly when they get into this three, they're kind of in a different sort of echelon. And so I think that's kind of what we're seeing from Minji Lee. And she's not a huge personality. She's kind of quiet, kind of reserved, just

really one of those players that lets their clubs do the talking. So that's probably why you haven't heard as much about her or from her. But certainly now with three different major titles, I think we're going to hear her in the conversation a lot more going forward.

I apologize for this in advance, Amy. I'm going to drag you down to what Lav and I do best, which is stupid sports radio kind of conversation sometimes. And as you pointed out, three separate, three different major championships. Now, if she were to win next month at the Women's Open, which I believe is in Wales, would that be the Grand Slam or is she still a Chevron shy? It depends on who you ask. We're asking you. You're the only guest that matters. So,

So there's a few different criteria here. So if you're looking at this in terms of what the LPGA considers the career Grand Slam, they're saying even though there's five, if you've won four different majors of the ones provided to you that you have achieved the career Grand Slam. Now, if you ask someone like a Lydia Coe, she doesn't agree with that. Her personally, she feels like you have to win all five to be considered a

you know, to have achieved the career grand slam. There's only one player that's won, you know, five different and that that's Kari Webb. And so that's a pretty elite company there. But, you know, it depends on who you ask, you know, what's your criteria? You know, do you feel like you should win all five or do you keep it at four to keep it more in line with what the men consider a career grand slam? So what do you guys think?

I don't think you should be able to manufacture a major championship and thus sort of move the goalposts as it terms of what's a Grand Slam champ. But that's just me. Rex.

I love the fact that Lydia Ko has her own personal record book. Like, I do appreciate that. I can say that. And I think I'm with Lav on this one, where if you're going to continue to tinker with this formula, then you probably have to draw a line somewhere. Because if I'm Minji and I do win next month at the Open Championship, I'm going to feel like I won the career Grand Slam.

I think you should have to win them all. You know, if there's five out there, I feel like you should have to win all five to be considered. You know, if that's how they're going to have it on the LPGA and they're going to have five majors, then I think, you know, you should have to win all five. So, yeah.

But if the PGA tour all of a sudden, you know, mandates or the organizing body somehow mandates or the media mandates that all of a sudden the players championship is the fifth major and you're sort of moving the goalposts in that respect. And now, nope, Scotty, you know, I know you've won the players championship and now you've got to win all five in order to be considered.

joining uh roy mcroy's a career grand slam it doesn't make any sense to me but i digress amy we'll let you get out of here on this question besides mingy lee's pursuit of the grand slam the super grand slam whatever you want to whatever you want to term it what sort of storylines still stand out to you now with three major championships in the books and two more to come

Well, Nellie Korda, right? We're still waiting to see if Nellie Korda can get that first win of the season. It's crazy to think that after the incredible run she got off to to start her season last year. But here we are still waiting for her to get that first victory. So that's something I'll definitely be following as we move into this latter half of the season and then back to the Grand Slam talk.

Of course, Lydia Ko, you know, she has said that that's kind of become a goal of hers now at this stage in her career as she's already made it into the LPGA Hall of Fame that, you know, if she can pick up, you know, other, you know, legs of the slam as well. That's that's something that I'll be definitely following in the years to come, see if she can get that done also. So I think Nellie Nellie is still the big one as we move into this latter half of the season, though.

Amy, great reporting all week at PGA Frisco. Much more on NBCSports.com slash golf. Look forward to talking to you down the road. Thanks, guys. All right, Rex, the Travelers Championship was the eighth and final signature event of the PGA Tour season. As you look at the entirety of that series for 2025, what stands out to you? Hideki, Rory, Russell Henley, Justin Thomas, Straka,

Scotty Scheffler, Keegan Bradley. Those are the winners of the Signature Events this year. And if you look at it from 30,000 feet, the PGA Tour accomplished what they set out to accomplish. They wanted the best players together more often playing for big purses and big points at classic venues, whatever your definition is of that. So it is a success on that level where you're going to point to this list of winners that I just read off individually.

and say, yes, that's what we're looking for here. It delivers the product that you want, delivers more often than not.

Where I seem to run into issues, though, is well, twofold, really one. And we've addressed this before. The idea that 72 players just seems like such a random number when it comes to a field size. There's no reason you couldn't expand that to 80 or 90 or 100 players. Entirely different conversation where I run into issues with it is the sustainability of these events with huge purses.

And you have sponsors that seem to be happy right now with the product that they're getting. My concern is when you talk to people on tour, how long is that satisfaction going to maintain?

That you have Travelers, you have Sentry, you have some of the biggest sponsors that have been loyal to the PGA Tour for a long time who've been asked to essentially pony up twice as much as they did before for these purses. And right now, they're fine with that. But I'm curious going forward if that's going to be what they – if they're going to continue to be happy with that. Yeah, I think that's certainly a realistic concern. I understand the origin of it.

of the signature event series and why the PGA tour is doing it. They're trying to highlight regular season events that really matter to

for the fans. They're essentially underlining and bold facing those tournaments and saying, look guys, this is going to be the biggest purse and the best field on what is probably going to be some of the best courses that we have to offer. I would, I would probably make the point that TPC river Highlands is not one of the best courses that the PJ tour has to offer. However, it is an incredibly well-run event that is incredibly well attended. As you saw Sunday, the travelers championship, like that was an absolute vibe.

It was electric. But when you are essentially, Rex, telling fans and telegraphing to fans that these are the only events that really matter on the PGA Tour schedule, you only have to do that when the schedule is bloated, when you have events that are, quote unquote, lesser events, when they're leading up to then the Signature Event Series. A better business model, in my opinion, for the PGA Tour would be to have

15 or 20 signature events, you know, weed out some of these C-level events. That way you don't have to necessarily call out that there is a A class of tournaments and a B class of tournaments. Make everything better by trimming back some of the schedule and not having the sort of two different tours that currently exist on the PGA Tour. Oh,

On Wednesday's podcast, we sort of recapped the naming of the new CEO or the first CEO of the PGA Tour, Brian Rolap, last week at the Travelers Championship. I had an opportunity to sit down and do an interview with him and beyond impressive. Like I think all of the things we'd heard about him, we'd all gone on Wikipedia and looked up exactly what his resume was and he delivered. He won the press conferences. He won the player meeting, everything that is. That being said...

he still faces plenty of challenges. And one of them to your point is exactly what we just pointed out. The idea that you, you have now come up with a class system for the different tournaments. And that usually works well for the tournaments that are in the upper class.

The ones that are in the lower class, they're the ones that are going to suffer. And I think we've kind of seen that with fields that don't necessarily live up to expectations. Now there are outliers. The idea that Jordan Spieth and Scotty Scheffler and the rest of the guys from Dallas are going to play the Byron Nelson and colonial that goes without saying, but by and large,

the non-signature events, they're the ones who have suffered in this category. And I would also point out, and I think it was you who made the point, that with the NFL, and Brian Roloff was essentially the number two person at the NFL before taking over that CEO job, at the NFL, you had a big game every week.

It didn't matter who it was against. You had a marquee matchup every single week of the season, and they continue to want to expand the season. You don't have that under this scenario. So I've been reluctant to get on board with you when it comes to the idea that less is more with golf. Now, I'm still not there with you, but I see where the conversation is certainly going right now. My argument has always been, name me a corporation that

turns away business. That's essentially what you're asking the PGA Tour to do. And by and large, corporations don't do that. You have sponsors right now who are more than willing to pony up whatever that money is for the purse to be a non-signature event. And right now, they're happy with it. Is that sustainable? That's kind of part of what I was sort of trying to get at with the idea that the model right now is a little squeaky because you have two sides of this coin. One, the sponsors are having to pay more and as long as they...

continue to think their product is worth more than you're fine. And then on the other side, you have the ones who continue to play less, but may not like their product either. So it's going to be a catch 22 that we may end up with a situation that you've argued for, for all of these years. We, you, we just have a natural, natural condensing of the schedule.

Yeah, I think we're all sort of encouraged. We're all sort of hopeful to see what Brian Rolap, seemingly an outsider in the world of sports, coming in and how he could potentially leave his mark on the PGA Tour. The point that you sort of mentioned there is that the NFL doesn't really have an off week. Like no one shrugs and is like, ah, it's week seven, you know.

Who really cares? No. Like week seven in the NFL has an entire week's worth of studio shows that are pumping oxygen into those games. The storylines are evident. The ratings is there. The interest is there. The gambling is there. The fantasy football is there. Like there is so much that is invested in every single week.

of the NFL schedule. I think it remains to be seen sort of what sort of skills, what sort of attributes, what sort of characteristics are transferable from the NFL to the PGA Tour. But I do think there is power in having scarcity of the schedule. If you are a diehard NFL fan, you are savoring each and every one of those 17 weeks

that your team is going to be playing because otherwise you're sitting here on June 23rd and it's really sad and it's really lonely and you just can't wait for training camp and two-a-days and scrimmages and the preseason and eventually week one of the NFL season to get there. Can you create a similar dynamic for the PGA Tour where there isn't a quote-unquote off week where you're sort of catching your breath?

and where the field isn't as strong. Can you make every week on the PGA Tour schedule appointment viewing? To me, that can only happen by condensing the schedule. And as it relates to this larger discussion of signature events, make every

every event on the PGA tour, a signature type event, make it a hundred man fields, put it at the very best golf courses, give it a sizable purse with the best fields. And I think you'll have the most interest, not just the PGA tour players who want to be invested in that, but PGA tour fans who want to see a condensed, stronger schedule overall than what we currently have. Well, and in that scenario, you're going to end up with a schedule that has 15 events on it.

Because the best players just aren't going to play that much. We've seen it. We're at the end of the season now, and we had just a rash of WDs, and it has everything to do with guys are just tired, and they're injured, whatever the case may be, towards the end of the season. But to your point, you're right. You never skip a Sunday. Not in the fall. Not during football season. Even if you're a fan of a bad team like you are in Jacksonville, you're never going to skip that Sunday.

I literally just had to swap out my Jag shirt for this Adidas shirt that you clearly do not like. Speaking of that rash...

of WDs. It is worth pointing out Rex that both Jordan Spieth and Victor Hovland among about five or six players had to withdraw during the travelers championship with injuries for Spieth. It was like a upper back neck issue. Victor Hovland had a neck issue as well. Do you think that this is cause for concern or do you think it's just hopefully, uh,

sort of a rest recovery and sort of precautionary issue for both Jordan Spieth and Victor Hovland. We have a social media post from Jordan Spieth on the screen right now. During warmup, my right scap tightened in despite trying to push through pain spread to my neck and upper back. It's not great. If he would have said he WD because of his wrist, which has been an ongoing issue, then yes,

Yes, alarm bells would have gone off probably all over PGA Tour headquarters because that's not what you want to see from the golden one. However, in this particular case, this goes to what I just said. It has been a really long season, and you've got a lot of big events coming up between the Open Championship, the Scottish, and by the time you get back, you're heading straight to the playoffs. I think this is probably more cautious than anything else, just making sure that I don't need to complicate things right now. I could probably take a Sunday off.

uh, my guess is he's got the next two weeks off before he gets to the Scottish. Make sure you're fully healthy for the final run. Yeah. Jordan Spieth in particular is expecting the couple's third child in the next couple of weeks. So that'll be an opportunity for him to have a little bit extra time off as well. Like Jordan Spieth was playing 10 of 12 weeks. He felt really good in his practice rounds. His body felt great. Uh, the pro-am went well. Uh, he was really encouraged and then just sort of had a fluke issue, uh,

Getting ready for the tournament on the range did not sound overly serious. Again, both of these players, Jordan Spieth and Victor Hovland, spoke with reporters and gave them an update on what's going on. But like this is a situation where this is the this is the heart of the schedule. And these guys are dog tired. Guy Scheffler talked about the need for a couple of days off as well. He was playing five of six weeks at this point in the schedule and to the previous point.

about the signature events and are they working? Are they not working? When you look at the schedule, Rex, from the Masters through this point, you have between the majors and the signature events, that's seven of 12 weeks. Those are tournaments these guys want to play. They need to play as it certainly pertains to the points. You're probably playing a couple of other tournaments, whether it's Rory in Canada, whether it's Scotty at the Nelson, like this is a jam-packed part of the schedule. I don't think the spacing is quite right and hopefully we don't see

a spate of injuries sort of derail the end of this PGA Tour season. Another player who was in the mix, at least for the most part at the Travelers Championship Rex, was Wyndham Clark. And on Thursday, after a report came out from the U.S. Open where he trashed his locker, he kind of, sort of, not really apologized for destroying that. Take a listen here.

I've seen some photographs that came out of Oakmont that made their way through social media. Is there anything you'd like to comment on or make any statements on with regard to some of that stuff in the locker room?

Yeah, I mean, you know, I've had a lot of highs and lows in my career, especially this year, some lows. And, you know, I made a mistake that I deeply regret, and I'm very sorry for what happened. But I'd also like to move on, not only for myself, but for Oakmont, for the USGA, and kind of focus on the rest of this year and things that come up. I still want to try to make the Ryder Cup team. I still am on the outside looking in for the FedEx Cup, and I –

you know, so I'm starting to move on and focus on those things. Rex, what's your read on that? I understand that that golf course aggravated a lot of players. I understand that you get frustrated in the heat of the moment. We had really good fun a few weeks ago when I snapped the shaft on my driver and I didn't even mean to do it. So I, I, I'm not going to sit here and try to stand on a soapbox and pretend like I'm going to clutch pearls because he took out a locker. It's a shame because you and I both were in that locker room last week and it's awesome. It's like a,

inside Oakmont. It's a really, really cool place. I'm sure he's going to pay for, I believe it was two lockers that he ended up

putting a foot through or something along those lines to your point very non-apology yes of course you want to move on i understand i'd rather not address this right now of course you wouldn't because this is uncomfortable for you you really don't get that call but he's not the first person i mean you and i didn't even play that golf course last week and you and i both wanted to kick things by the time we got out of there on monday afternoon trying to get to the airport so i understand where the frustration was coming from but it's not going away anytime soon

I mean, I literally declined an invitation, a media day invite to play Oakmont because with my driver, I had absolutely no business playing on that. Doug Ferguson developed the shanks on Monday. Doug Ferguson, the AP golf writer, said he developed shanks and is going to quit the game. Really tough scene. Can't necessarily blame him, nor do I necessarily blame Wyndham Clark. And I like I understand the want and the desire to move on in this instance. What about the Oakmont members?

I would assume that they are still furious about what happened. What about the USGA and sort of the stand on them with Wyndham Clark, a past champion desecrating private property while competing in their tournament? To me, I just don't understand where the contrition is. Like it's a baffling PR strategy to not fully own this and just stop at the apology as opposed to then spinning this in to

to a FedEx Cup and a Ryder Cup conversation. If you're Keegan Bradley... Can we stop breaking things? Please, just stop breaking things. Everybody, Rory, Wyndham, stop breaking things. Remember the shirt that Rory ripped? I mean, at least that's his own property as opposed to private property. I believe Rory broke a T-marker last week at the USO. Yeah, I mean, tensions run high. I think as it relates to the Wyndham-Clark in particular,

This sort of follows a pattern of poor behavior. Remember the PGA championship also checked his driver and that destroying a sign behind the T. So hopefully he's getting the help he needs. Hopefully he can better compartmentalize and showcase some better on course comportment as it relates to Wyndham Clark.

That is going to do it for this edition of the Golf Channel Podcast with Rex and Lab. You guys know the drill. NBCSports.com slash golf for all latest news, notes, and updates. Rex and I will be back on Wednesday for a preview edition of the Rocket Classic. No, it's not the Rocket Mortgage Classic. It is the Rocket Classic. I'll also be on golf today all week long. Rex, you'll be contributing on Golf Central. Thanks for listening. Thanks for the support. We'll talk to you guys in a couple of days.

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