Watch out, Scottie: Rory as good as ever to start 2025
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indeed.com slash NBC Sports. Hello and welcome into this edition of the Golf Channel Podcast with Rex and Lav. Apologies for the nasally delivery. It is indeed congestion season, but Rex, PGA Tour desperately needed a big week at Pebble Beach. And what could be bigger than Roy McIlroy winning an iconic venue at Pebble Beach? What was your biggest takeaway?

It was the Rory from 2012 is what I got struck with. And it was, there was a moment on the 14th tee where he was up by four strokes. He easily could have just laid back. I think that in that moment, it felt like he, uh, at the PGA championship in 2012, all over again, because I kept thinking to myself back then, he kept hitting drivers, not because he had to get, because he could. And this is Rory when he's in full flight, you look what he did statistically and

This is Roy at his absolute best first in the field and strokes game off the tee third in the field and strokes game tee to green seventh and putting. This is how he gets dominant and wins by multiple strokes. This goes back to when he was at his absolute best. And I think you're right. We, we, we kind of touched on it a little bit with Todd earlier in the show about the idea that the things that he worked on at the end of last season and

We know Rory. He's going to keep searching for answers. He's not going to throw his hands in the air and just say, well, I can't get there. He's always going to be looking for the better version of himself. And whatever it is that transformed between the end of last year's PGA Tour season when he picked up again to finish up the season on the DP World Tour, when he locked himself essentially in a closet and decided, I'm going to do this a different way. If this is the result, you have to be very optimistic going into this season. Yeah, you're exactly right. The 14th hole...

on Sunday epitomized the full Roy McIlroy experience. It shows what Rory can do when he's in full flight. It shows why he's such a feared competitor. I mean, the 190 ball speed, 340 carry, 170-foot apex is just sick stuff. I mean, there's out-of-bounds right, there's thick rough left, and to absolutely pipe one over the trees, leave himself just a seven iron in, and then obviously he makes the eagle putt to give himself the cushion. I mean, that's the sort of stuff that makes you –

that sort of makes your head spin, that makes your mind wander to what could actually be possible in 2025 for Roy McIlroy. You look at what he did on the weekend, Rex, and yes, obviously the 14th hole is impressive. The bogey-free 65 in the worst conditions on Saturday, but with great scrambling, showed a completeness to his game that maybe wasn't there in 2012, 2014, when he was doing Roy McIlroy strutting stuff. And then the 66 on Sunday with the shots that very few players in the field can hit.

And it wasn't just 14 and the 339 carry. It was the fairway bunker shot up the hill on six. It was the fairway bunker shot on 10 with the Pacific Ocean looming on the right-hand side. It was stuffing it to a foot on 15 out of really thick rough, being able to stop it with spin out of a really gnarly lie. Like that's the Roy McIlroy that we've come to expect, but that we really haven't seen

All that much really the tour de force to form it. We tour de force performance. We saw that at quail hollow last year.

where he ran down Xander Schauffele on the weekend. But to see it so early in 2025, I think, is a really promising sign. And I think when you look at a round like Saturday at Pebble Beach, and anyone who loves golf and loves Pebble Beach, I was riveted by the action because that's what I want to see. I don't particularly want to play in those conditions. However, I love watching the world's best wrestle with those type of conditions on that particular golf course. It's just so entertaining to me. And for Rory to shoot a 65 –

which was, and you always kind of have to put this in context, it was six and a half shots better than the field average that day. I mean, think about that for a moment. He got up and down eight out of eight times on Saturday, as you pointed out, in the worst of the conditions. And then the one thing that separates him

from everyone else, and you touched on it. He can do things that other people can't do with the golf ball in driving distance, in the measured holes, which is a little bit of a limited window, but this one was fascinating to me. Not only was he first in the field, he was first in the field by 17 yards. That's an amazing stat when you consider the players who were in the field. Tony Finau, Gary Woodland. How many guys were in the field that...

are plenty long. It's not as though they stand on the tee and think to themselves, I can't beat Rory because he hits it so much further than me. But when he has that much confidence and he's swinging that free, this is the result.

And there's a couple of like big picture Roy things, I think, to take away from this performance. And it's something that I asked Roy about on Thursday at Pebble Beach. It's clear that Roy is in better form to start the year than perhaps he's been in years past. And he made a point to Kenny Harry Diamond walking up on 18, say, quote, start as you mean to go on. Essentially, you know, this is a player who had made a point finally after a year and a half

to do some swing work, to make some swing changes, to make his golf swing more repeatable, more efficient, particularly in crunch time. Locking himself in a swing studio, Rex, for 21 days, unable to see the ball flight, allowed him to just struggle

strictly work on the motion to not sort of be caught up in the end result. And to then have a performance in Dubai, which he had at the end of last year, winning that golf tournament top five, knocking off a little bit of rust to begin the year in the DP world tour. And then this performance is,

at Pebble Beach after what was already a busier December than he would typically have. Typically, Roy McIlroy is shutting it down for the entire month of December. He said he had buddies trips. He had the showdown. He was preparing and keeping his swing intact as well. He told me, Rex, on Thursday at Pebble Beach that

That all of the time that he has spent over the past couple months, as opposed to shutting it down, as opposed to getting some rest and relaxation, allowed him to, quote, hit the ground running. And I think we're starting to see the payoff already in 2025. He's getting now to a point where he can sort of maintain in the key months, March through July, as opposed to sort of trying to peak at that point.

And I don't think anybody in the game searches more than Rory. And I'm not talking about searching particularly for the swing. He's just searching for the right formula. He knows. He hears it. He knows we're talking about it's been a decade plus since he won a major championship. He knows he's one green jacket away from the career grand slam. And so he has spent essentially the last decade trying to perfect whatever the formula is.

going into the Masters to make sure that he's at his absolute best. And this may be that option. Now, we're going to have to see how he plays. He's taking this week off in Scottsdale, and then he's going to Torrey Pines for the Genesis Invitational. But if he can maintain some level of this, which is impressive –

I think that, yes, we're getting to that version of Rory where this is 2012. This is where he wins majors by eight strokes. Now, I'm going to be not the prisoner of the moment on this and be quick to point out Scottie Scheffler was making his first start of the year. He's coming off an injury. He clearly had a little bit of rust.

specifically off the tee, which was a little bit surprising to me. You look at the other players around him. Ober was injured. He had to withdraw with an illness. It's clear that Sepp Straka did not have his best stuff on Sunday. So you can kind of look at the rest of the field around him and give the nod to, okay, maybe they weren't at their absolute best, but there's still no denying that what he did is Rory at his absolute best. That is the version of Rory that I think going into Augusta, all of us would be like, yep, that's the guy that's going to

Complete the career grand slam. And look, this should be validation that he's working on the right things in his game. When you look at what's the biggest separator between Roy McIlroy and Scotty Scheffler, it's clearly not driving. Roy McIlroy is the most awe-inspiring driver of the golf ball in the game. He might not be as straight down the pike as Scotty Scheffler. Wedge play. It's wedge play.

But look, it's not driving. It's not putting. Rory McIlroy is a better putter. Rory McIlroy has a very underrated short game. I think we saw him going eight for eight, scrambling in pretty dire conditions on Saturday at Pebble Beach as well. The two things, to your point, Rex, are iron play and course management. And the primary focus of Rory's swing changes that he's made over the past couple months was iron play. Rory was 52nd on the PGA Tour last year in strokes gained approach.

Four contacts. Scotty Scheffler was one shot per round better than Roy McIlroy with his irons. That's four shots over the course of a tournament. That's a ton.

And so there are moves that Roy has made to make his golf swing more efficient to tighten that up. He has talked about the work that he's done with sports psychologist, Bob Rotella about sort of taking quote dead aim inside 150 yards instead of sort of playing the conservative shot. If you're not really all that confident with your wedge swing, you know, missing left, missing right of the target. And then, you know, you're leaving yourself 15, 20 footers all day. It's taking that aim. We saw that with a couple, uh,

certainly with a hole-in-one on Thursday, as well as a near hole-out on his foul hole of the day as well. So I think all of that coupled will then lead into course management. Scotty golf that Roy said that he wants to play is seemingly mistake-free. It's a lot of bogey-free rounds. That's something that Roy really admires. That's the hallmark of great iron play.

is having mistake-free golf, or at least having the appearance that you're making mistake-free golf. It's always putting your ball in the right position. Having better approach play, having better control of Rory's golf ball will make it seem like he's playing smarter. And so the changes that he's made with his golf swing, the attitude that he is now bringing to the golf course, I forget Ludwig's sick,

sick. Forget that Xander wasn't teeing it up. Forget that Scottie was rusty. Forget that Shane Lowry and Sepp Strzok were battling with their swing on Sunday. Rory McIlroy is making all of the right moves in his game that should give you a ton of confidence that this could be one of his best seasons yet.

No, and I'm not going to debate you on that. However, it is a long season. And again, I'm going to fight the urge to be the prisoner of the moment on this. And I do need to see it. We should be excited. We should be excited. No one's more excited than I am about this. And no one was more entertained watching him do what he did, not just on Saturday, but also on Sunday. I have nothing but optimism going into the season for him. But.

And this goes back to the conversation with Todd that we just had. I'd love to think that, yes, the tour is at a tipping point when it comes to pace of play and they're going to do something. However, for 20 plus years, over two decades, I've come to the same conclusion and nothing has ever been done. And this particular case, as it applies to Rory, I'd like to think that, yes, you're right, that he's not going to make those mental errors on the golf course. He's not going to sort of have those lapses that he had last year in June at the U.S. Open at Pinehurst coming down the stretch when he just inexplicably

inexplicably made some very uncharacteristic mistakes. I need to see it though. First, it's, it's sort of the Ronald Reagan thing. I need to see what's it trust and verify is what I need to say. You are ready to have your heart broken all over again. I am. That is you always.

in 2025. Forget Roy for a minute, Rex. This was, I think, a big week for the PGA Tour, a desperately needed week for the PGA Tour. And that's no offense to the winners that we saw over the first month of the season. But I think Pebble Beach and the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am was enduring proof that good fields and good venues are worth tuning in for. Roy McIlroy made the point

on Saturday after his round that sort of this is the show that we want to have the PGA Tour be set up for. Would you agree with that assessment? And where does that sort of leave you for the PGA Tour's future is like pebble, sort of the cornerstone of what the PGA Tour should be trying to do. There was a Michael Jordan moment between Rory and our friend Todd Lewis in the interview after he won where Rory brought up the idea that

that someone had been critical of his career. Somehow someone's been critical of his career because of the golf courses that he's won on. And I actually, as soon as I heard it, I had to like go and make sure that it might, am I, am I misremembering this? He won a U S open at congressional. He won a player's championship at TPC. Yeah.

He won Hoyle Lake. I mean, he won at Quail Hollow, who we can all agree is a renowned venue. Like, I don't know that that conversation has ever – I've never heard that conversation where, no, Rory can only win on soft golf courses. I don't think that that resonates with me at all. But to your point, yes, if you do it at Pebble, it just means more. And I'm not taking anything away from PGA West.

Just a few weeks ago that hosted the American express or even Torrey Pines, I guess, to a certain degree next week for the Genesis or two weeks from now for the Genesis invitational. But if you do win at pebble, I think that does go into a different category. I always think of Zach Johnson's career on this front where he,

he's always going to be remembered for the guy that not only won at Augusta National, but you also won at St. Andrews. Like that, you hang your hat on. And I think Rory, in his mind, and the point he was trying to make when he was talking about venues, is you want the best players, to your point, but you also want it on a venue. And I love the idea that when he was explaining this, that every major championship we go to, even Augusta,

Every the almost all of the conversation leading up to the first round is something about the golf course. It's Augusta's change greens or change tee boxes. What's going to be different at Oakmont when we go to the U.S. Open this year? I understand where he's coming from. That's sort of the lore and the charm of our game. And I get it why he comes into this thinking to himself that, yes, I can do something really special on this golf course. I can see the extra motivation, actually.

Do you think that now would be a good time to recite my favorite fact about Roy McIlroy, that he's never won a golf tournament when single digits under par was the winning score? No, we're certainly not going to get in that. I think Roy's point Rex about venues mattering on the PG tour is one that's really worth exploring. Cause if you were starting the PG tour from scratch, you would not have a 47 event schedule that's built on these swings. And there's really no time off and you're going to, I believe Roy described them as quote run of the mill events.

TPC courses. And like, he's got a point, which TPC was catching a stray on that one. What's what's the worst part of the PGA tour schedule. It's the late spring and the summer.

And in that stretch, you have, for instance, TPC Louisiana, TPC Craig Ranch, TPC Toronto, TPC River Highlands, which I actually sort of like, TPC Deer Run. San Antonio. Those are all pretty replaceable venues. And so if, quote, everything is on the table, according to Commissioner Jay Monahan, and you want to create the best possible product for the PGA Tour, it involves everything.

A, shortening the schedule, and B, taking golf tournaments with better fields to better venues. It matters to the players who wins there, and I think it matters to the fans as well which golf course the players are playing on because it just makes it more compelling.

I'm going to push back a little bit. I think River Highlands is one of the more underrated. I said that. I liked it. I like TPC River Highlands. That was one I would not look at in that same category. No, no, no. I feel like you were trying to push it into the wrong category. Now, certainly San Antonio is a different type of TPC, and I see where you're coming from, Louisiana. There's a bunch of TPCs we can probably throw into that mix. But to your point, yes, I

Again, this goes back to my experiment. Let me give you a blank piece of paper and you come up with, we're not going to do 47 because I feel like that's too many. We both agree on that front, but you come up with the best 30 events schedule and not only playing the best golf courses in the cities during the best time of year, because I would argue that Pebble Beach probably this time of year is not when we want to be there. We should probably find a better way of showing up in the summer when I hear it's absolutely gorgeous and we don't have to deal with what they had to deal with on Saturday and certainly what we had to deal with

last year but i'll even take it a step further and i think i did this experiment once where you can go to every town and i'll start in my hometown of orlando and i have nothing all of us have nothing but respect for arnold palmer but bay hill is not the best course in orlando if you want to come here and you want to play a fun course the country come over orlando would be probably where i would point out it's a classic donald ross and i think the players would love it if you could find a way to maybe stretch it out a little bit and grow the rough out but

So, and I think you could probably make that same argument in every single city that they go to West Palm beach, PGA national, clearly not the best course in that area. You would go to Seminole or you would go to old Palm. There's so many other better choices. So yes, I see where you're coming from. Yeah. I think like, I think the AT&T pebble beach pro-am should be the model for

not the exception when it comes to the PGA tour schedule. I'm, I'm hopeful. I'm optimistic that we'll get to a point where the PGA tour is based around great venues with the, with only the best fields turning up. But it's, I think there's a lot of work to do on the PGA tour front. We're obviously going to get into more of that with golf channel insider, Todd Lewis, right after this break. But first Rex, a reminder,

Happy Super Bowl week. You can watch PFT Live with Mike Florio and Chris Sims as they tackle the biggest stories in the game every morning at 7 a.m. Eastern time. Watch PFT Live on the new NBC Sports Now channel on Peacock, the Roku channel, Pluto TV, and more. And listen wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be right back after this short break.

And for this Boots on the Ground segment, we welcome in Golf Channel Insider Todd Lewis, who is live from Pebble Beach in T. Lou. Appreciate you joining us. You've covered a lot of these, these Roy McIlroy victories. What was unique to you about this one? Well, I would have to say how...

how peaceful he looked on the weekend under some trying conditions, especially on Saturday. He seemed to be in total control of his golf ball, but more importantly, control of his emotions. And I think he came to Pebble better prepared to start the 2025 season than in any other year, maybe on the PGA Tour. If you look back after the DP World Tour Championship in November of 24, he

He went into a studio, tinkered with his swing, worked on his takeaway and at the top of his swing, fixed some issues there and then played a lot of golf. Now it was recreational golf in December, but he played quite a bit. He didn't just, you know, fix that issue and then just put

put the clubs away. And that's something he traditionally does. He just kind of takes time away in December, but he played a lot of golf. He went to Dubai as he generally starts the year worldwide, played well there, top five. And he came here not searching,

Had a lot of freedom, as I mentioned. I mean, just watching him just not only on the golf course, but walking around Pebble Beach with all of the CEOs that run America here. Him smiling, engaged, talking to the volunteers. He just seemed like he's in a really peaceful place on and off the golf course. And it showed this weekend.

Now, T, you are the boots on the ground, and I was watching on Saturday. That looked like just dreadful conditions. You actually had a hand warmer on when you were doing interviews, and you've seen some bad conditions in your career. How bad were those conditions, and how good was Rory's 65? I think it was six and a half shots better than the field average. Yeah, in my opinion, he won this tournament on Saturday because the conditions were just...

Just so unpredictable. And the way he was able to adapt with that much wind happening at 30 miles per hour. He told me after his round that he hit some shots that he normally doesn't hit. Now, if you follow Rory McIlroy, I mean, he's got such a majestic swing.

But generally, he's a high ball hitter. And obviously, that does not work in very high winds. So his main objective yesterday on Saturday, I should say, was to hit the ball down, keep it out of that wind. And that's something that I wouldn't say he's uncomfortable doing, but it's something that he doesn't regularly do. It's not natural for him to do that. And for him to make that adjustment and play bogey,

free on Saturday and shoot that impressive number. I think that's where he won the tournament because it was not good. I mean, I thought squirrels were going to be flying around. It was so windy here. T. Lou, Rex tried to make fun of me on last week's podcast when I said that Pebble Beach is the unofficial start to the PGA Tour season. I know that they've been playing for a month, but to me,

There was Scotty back in the field. Roy was making his season debut on the PGA Tour. Jordan Spieth was making his debut on the PGA Tour this past week. You covered the Century, the season opening event on the PGA Tour. Was there a tangible difference in the vibe, in the importance, in the stature, in the quality of tournament Century versus Pebble?

Okay, now I'm going to feel like a parent and two of my kids are fighting me. So I'm going to satisfy both of you here, okay? First off, I do feel as if this century was the start of the season. If Scottie Scheffler hadn't had that mishap playing –

Mr. Chef on Christmas Day. And if Jordan Spieth wasn't going through the issue he had with his wrist, both of them would have probably been in the field. Actually, Jordan wasn't eligible, right? So I should take that back. But Scottie... Roy's not going to play. Well, Roy traditionally doesn't play. He's played there once. So I get that. So I feel like the jump to the season did start

in Hawaii, but there was a different energy with Rory on the ground here. I will say that. I don't think it officially starts here, but there is a different energy when Rory McIlroy starts his season wherever he starts and he picked a couple of beats here this week. That is some seriously good fence sitting right there. I can appreciate that. Beautiful. Yeah, I don't like the answer, but I will give you credit. Salute, my man, for sitting on the fence.

So, well, I want to go back to Sunday, and we talked a little bit about it going into Sunday, the idea that Rory playing with Shane, those two being so close, and obviously just the dynamic of that group. How do you think that actually helped Rory coming down the stretch? I don't know if it was that big a –

a positive for Rory. I felt like, like I mentioned earlier, I felt like he was at peace no matter who he was playing with. I didn't see, I didn't sense any nervousness from him at all. If you, if you noticed, if you watched our golf channel coverage over the weekend on Saturday and Sunday, the early coverage, you know, we started a new thing where you interview the player right before he tees off. And Rory was gracious enough to, to give us an interview before he teed off in that final group on Sunday. And,

And I watched him walk from the putting green to the first tee after he finished his warm-up. He was engaging with the fans. I sensed no uptick in heartbeat. I felt like he was completely relaxed. And I think that would have been the case no matter who he was playing with. Todd, I'm glad you mentioned the –

pre-round interview that you did both Saturday and Sunday, because that was part of the broadcast enhancement that the PGA tour is talking about that they're going to start introducing this year. And in the future on the PGA tour, you and I were both part of a meeting with P with PGA tour executives last week in Pebble beach to go over the initial findings from their fan forward survey. I wrote about 3000 words from that meeting, but what was your biggest takeaway from the 45 to 60 minutes that we spent with the tour executives? You can get into,

the weeds with what the tour is trying to do. The two biggest things that I took away that the tour is saying at least is after polling 50,000 fans and doing their own research is that the two things that the fans want to improve. And that is the better accessibility in the broadcast to players and enhanced and more enhanced broadcast and a faster pace of play.

And there are things that the tour says that they're going to try to do, maybe implement, or they are going to implement some range finders or distance measuring devices and some events in the spring. They may...

be more transparent with the pace of play with players, maybe reveal fines and so on. But I think more than anything is that I think that the tour is they're hearing fans. And I think the pendulum is shifting a bit towards what the fans want, maybe more than what the players want. Now there has to be a balance there. There has to be a balance. I'm not saying the tour is going to do everything the fans want, but they are being influenced. I feel like more by the fans. And I think that is a positive.

Todd, you and I have had this conversation for the better part of our careers, which is two-plus decades, the idea that pace of play is a problem on the PGA Tour, and yet nothing ever seems to come of it. Now in back-to-back weeks, you have announcers. Last week it was Dottie Pepper with CBS. This week it was Frank Noblow calling out Tom Kim on pace of play issues. Do you think the players are starting to get the message? I do. Actually, Thursday through Sunday, play for all four rounds,

were ahead of the pace that was prescribed by the PGA tour with the broadcast partners. In other words, the tournament play ended before the broadcast was over. So they ended 15 to 20 minutes early. As a matter of fact, Thursday and Friday, I was told by a rules official here on the PGA tour that the pace of play was the fastest it's ever been in this tournament for the first two rounds. So I, I, I think it looked, it's a, it's a, it's a talking point in the locker room. I,

No player really wants to be known as the slow player, and especially if on the horizon there's a real possibility that you are going to be revealed to the public as a slow player. So I think that the players are addressing this internally and they're trying to make a better effort, but they are being pushed a bit by the PGA Tour and the fans.

Along those same lines, what do you think is the ultimate goal here? Is it simply optics to say that the PGA Tour is speeding up play? Like, for instance, the NBA and Commissioner Adam Silver are saying he wants to reduce the quarter time from 12 minutes to 10 to essentially fit NBA games into a two-hour window. Is the PGA Tour trying to lop off?

an hour and a half to all of a sudden get into a four-hour window? Is it just optics? Do they want to make it look like they're finally starting to crack down on what's been an epidemic, not just at the professional level, but the recreational level as well? What's your read on what the ultimate goal is? Okay.

Well, that's a good question. I'm not exactly – there is just a goal, a primary goal that the PGA Tour is looking at. But I do think that, you know, it can be a slowish sport on television. I mean, they're not running. They're not tackling out there. And so, you know, if you have a slower pace and it takes a player –

a minute or so to hit a shot, then, you know, the attention of a viewer is going to go elsewhere. So I think the tour is aware of that and they've done their own research. And, but like Rory said earlier in the week, this is not a, this is not a new problem. This is something that's been around for a long, long time. But again, I am in a positive state of mind because I feel as if the tour is trying it in harmony with the players to do something about this.

See, I don't share your optimism only because I've heard the conversation for so long and I find it hard to wrap my mind around the tour is finally going to get around to doing something. But if they do, and you mentioned public shaming, and I think public shaming of players would go a long way, but what would be the key to this? Would it be public shaming? Would it be a shot clock? Would it be making sure that each group has an official assigned to make sure that they remain on pace? Like what would be the magic bullet here? Well, guys, we've covered the tour, like you said, a long, long time. If

for the tour to say or to imply that there is a real possibility that they are going to make

known to the public to the fans which players are slow and which players have been fined um i look that i think that's a big i mean that is a leap for the tour because they have been obviously so protective of the players and their disciplinary issues for you know ever since basically the tour has has been in existence and so i mean i feel like that's a pretty radical move and i i

My guess is that the players heard that, and that's why maybe you saw a little faster time this week. Todd, as I mentioned, that was just the sort of initial findings from the FanForward survey. It was about a 45-minute preview that we had. The full findings will be released most likely in March, according to the tour executives. What unanswered questions do you still have about the direction of the PGA Tour and where they want to go in the future? Well, I...

I do think, obviously, there's this giant fracture that has happened with the separation of the PGA Tour and Live Golf. I think that is the biggest shadow. You know, I'm hearing a lot more positives, and I know you guys have too, about this deal coming together. But I think that's a big thing still. I think when the dust settles,

and the game of golf at the highest level is no longer really on a fault line and we are cemented with a real positive foundation, I think that's going to help out tremendously, obviously. I think that'll win some fans back. And when you have stars like Rory McIlroy winning at iconic venues like Pebble Beach, that's going to help as well.

Now, Todd, I think you've enjoyed an adult beverage or two in the lodge at Pebble Beach. We know it can be a little on the expensive side. The Hole-in-Ones by Shane and Rory. How much do you think the bill was? Give me an estimate. Give me an over-under. Gosh, man.

Well, first off, I think they're both fine and can afford it. There's also pizza was involved. So it was beer and pizza for these very healthy media writers here in the media center. And TV reporters as well. And TV reporters. I should say that too. I would say they probably spent $1,000. Over, over, over. Give me the over.

These are Pebble Beach prices. A beer is like $12. Well, that's true. They probably didn't go down to Costco and get two or three cases. I don't think there is a Costco on the Monterey Peninsula. At least if there is one, I haven't seen it. So yeah, make it $2,000. We'll just double it. T. Lou, thanks as always for joining us on the show. Safe travels. Look forward to seeing you on the road in a couple weeks. Thanks for having me on, guys. Always enjoy it.

And folks, if you're new here, a reminder that we do this show actually twice a week, only once on linear television. Rex and I will be back on Wednesday for another edition previewing the Waste Management Phoenix Open, available on Golf Channel's YouTube channel. And wherever it is, you get your podcast. More of the show right after this.

Okay, Rex, back by popular demand is our world-famous love it or lav it segment. If you're new here, we can either love an idea or, well, we can be eternally pessimistic and negative. Let's first start with Phil Mickelson, exactly, curmudgeon-y or grumpy. On a podcast with Joe Pompliano, Phil Mickelson had a take about why, in the long run, live golf will be successful, and it was quite an idea and a take. Let's take a listen. When you go to a PGA Tour event...

It's very uncomfortable for a parent to bring a child because you have to be quiet. Oh, shh. Okay, don't move. Stop moving. Now come over here. Come over here, son. Let's go get a view. And you're kind of hustling and your kids are kind of tired. They're walking miles, right? The viewer – This is why I don't take Lily to golf events. The golf fan is the most loyal fan. This is why. This is why? Walking miles and seeing a fraction of the action, right? It's not like –

Other sports where you buy a seat and you get to see 100% of the action. You don't have to move. Okay, so we have a very loyal fan base. But when you're with your kids, it's very uncomfortable. This is why I don't take my wife to golf again. You have a six-year-old or a young child and you're like, don't talk right now. Okay, come over here. And it's like almost not even worth bringing them. That's it. Now they've walked and they're tired and they don't have a place to go. Okay, you go to a live event. You feel different and here's why. You have music going. So if you're out on the course, we don't hear little people saying stuff. We don't hear it.

So you're not as anxious about having your kids be quiet. Oh, it's okay. Come on. And then let's walk up here. And there's a fan zone like on the course where you can sit down, take a break. It's like a little hang. You can take a nap. They have a kid's zone by the clubhouse where, again, you can take a nap. You can sit down, play putt-putt and play games for them, entertain them with a big screen so you can still see what's going on on the golf. So when you go there, you feel relaxed.

Calm. Yeah. You feel comfortable. Like, okay, our kids had a great time. I was relaxed. I wasn't so worried. I think that's the number one reason why Liv's going to be successful. I mean, it's February 3rd, Rex. This might be the most ridiculous take, not just of the year. This might be the most ridiculous take of the century. Are you loving or are you laughing Phil Mickelson's take on why Liv is going to be successful?

I'm loving the idea that we should come up with the worst take of the year. We're going to have to stick a pin in that and circle back around. We're going to have to start collecting some bad takes. This is loud. This is so loud. It's hokum. It's ridiculous. It's nonsense. Like the idea that the public investment front of Saudi Arabia is going to invest billions, not millions, millions would they be into a product with the idea that the only reason or because it's going to survive or be successful is because kids can show up and they don't have to be quiet. Like that's ridiculous.

Like, okay, maybe that's a side note. Maybe that's some reason for parents to bring their kids to golf tournaments. And certainly I've been at golf tournaments with my sons and they can be loud and you do have to kind of keep them under control. But no, that's not why live golf is either going to either be successful or not.

This has everything to do with is the TV product going to be something that resonates with the United States audience? And we're going to get a better idea of that this season because they've now moved to Fox, which is a larger platform. And I think it's going to be a better comparison to what the PGA Tour has on its various platforms. Is this a format?

that traditional golf fans will have any interest in whatsoever. We're going to find out all of these things factor into it. Will the team aspect be something that golf fans, just not in the United States, but around the world will embrace maybe the way they embrace the Ryder cup. That's the idea behind this. They're not going to be successful because I can bring little Johnny to the golf tournament. And I don't have to keep him quiet the entire time. This is ridiculous. I mean, this is the same Phil Mickelson who at the 2021 U S open had multiple fans, uh,

booted from property because they were so disruptive while he was trying to play a U.S. Open round. Like, I understand that Phil Mickelson typically spends his time inside the ropes, but has he never, like, looked outside the ropes of what happens at a PGA Tour event? Kid zones are commonplace.

So are hospitality villages where you can go get food, go get a drink, sit down at a picnic table, watch it on a big screen. Like that happens at every single PGA Tour stop. I understand his point. And there's something to be said for like having a constant white noise or a din to help drown off the knucklehead one-offs who would be shouting something. But they're also playing for something significant on the PGA Tour. It's not unrealistic to think

they should have some sort of semblance of quiet so they can do their work. Would I bring my three-year-old to a PGA Tour event? No, probably not. She would very likely get shushed, or I would at least know to sort of

of, you know, go around the golf course in a specific pattern. That is not why live golf is going to be successful. Live golf will potentially be successful in the future because of the team model. Once you have the right players in place with the right format in place, I do think there's a spot in the golf ecosystem for it. It has absolutely nothing to do with crowd noise.

Speaking of Liv, Rex, Bryson DeChambeau, who played the Asian Tour last week and Liv is kicking off its season this week in Saudi Arabia, told the press in India that he wants his crushers to join TGL, the simulator golf league. Do you love that idea or do you love that idea with Bryson and his boys inside the simulator?

I love the idea, but immediately someone from Ponte Vedra Beach and the PGA Tour is going to be wagging their finger at me because there is a stipulation with TGL that to be a player with TGL, you have to be a PGA Tour member, and I don't have to connect the dots going backwards. So unless they're going to decide to change their rules, it's simply not going to happen. However, and I think we had this conversation last week on the podcast, someone brought up the idea that

would TGL be better if Jordan Spieth and Scottie Scheffler were in the league? And yes, maybe, but if you're waiting for Scottie Scheffler to be the saving grace for a personality driven league, then you're probably waiting on the wrong person to be quite frank with you because as brilliant as he is on the golf course, and he is brilliant. He's not necessarily going to light you up with a bunch of one liners out there. And we've,

said, we've all agreed that the only way that's going to succeed is if the personality of the players carry the product. And I just don't think Scottie has that gear that he's just not built that way. And I don't expect people to try to be someone they're not.

If you're going to ask me, would the league be better with Bryson and maybe someone from his team, Paul Casey, or someone else from his team? Absolutely. Those are personalities that people want to hear. They're fun to be around. They're witty. They can crack one-liners. So, yes, it would absolutely make the team, the league, better. But, no, it's not going to happen. The rules are the rules. Maybe if a deal gets done.

Maybe live players can start to be re-implemented. Like, I don't know if we should already be thinking about expansion when it comes to TGL after just four or five weeks, but, but a team of live players, not necessarily a live team like the crushers to me makes a lot of sense. If you could sort of cherry pick the best live players, Bryce DeChambeau would be an absolute slam dunk player.

For that format. I mean, he talked about after his final round on the Asian tour that he was, he thought his game was in good form. He just filmed a breaking 50 in which he was playing well, like this guy is made for sort of these golf adjacent type events. It would be a slam dunk with TGL. If again, if a deal can get done between the PG tour and Saudi public investment fund, Bryce would be absolutely the very first call, but I'm with you. Perhaps this is something that we should be waiting for season two.

as opposed to being wishful for season one. And I think it's fair to look at TGL as the inroads. It could be the bridge between live golf and the PGA tour. I don't think this is outlandish to think that if you're going to find a way, and we've had this discussion before that once the financial terms of agreement, and we all are sort of anticipating that sometime in the first quarter of this year, once the financial terms are set, then the hard work starts about trying to bring the two sides back together and what that would look like would significantly

Somehow the two tours try to meld together with a continue on parallel paths. You wouldn't particularly have to worry about that if TGL is the bridge between those two. So I love the idea of making TGL that bridge where you have one or two or three teams from TGL, and then you start working everything back together. We certainly do love it on that one. Rex, this one is very dangerous territory because I'm wildly colorblind, have to have my wife pick out my clothes. It's gray. You are a hashtag. But Jason Day says,

wore a sweatsuit for the final round of the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am. If you look at sort of the rules and regulations for what is allowed at Pebble Beach during resort play, this would not be allowed, and yet here he is, the final round of a signature event. Are you loving or laving the J-Day sweatsuit?

I'm going to laugh it, and it's me being the maximum curmudgeon here. Only because it looks comfortable. Don't get me wrong. If I'm taking a red eye. It does. It looks like this is what I want to wear on a red eye because I'm going to try to cuddle up in a corner and pass out. However, on a golf course during a PGA Tour event, that does not look like. And his clothing manufacturer takes some risks. We have seen it before. He got sideways with Augusta. Did not work with Augusta.

Yes, it did not work last year at Augusta National. It's not for me. As you pointed out, I am a man of a certain age, and I realize that I can't get away with a whole lot. I certainly can't get away with that on the golf course, but it looks comfortable. I will say that. I love it.

I absolutely love it. I'm someone who wears hoodies all throughout the winter here in Ponte Vedra. I actually wear like they're like yoga type sweatpants. They're not technically yoga pants, certainly not for men. And they're certainly not sweatpants as well. They're like a hybrid. I love them. I wear them all winter. Break down the fashion barriers.

Jason Day is a real trailblazer. I agree. I think the pants that JT wears from his manufacturer, Grayson, are really cool, and they're tapered at the bottom. They're joggers. I think those look really good. Again, man of a certain age, I know I can't pull them off, but I really like those. But clearly, Jason's just wearing sweats. They're trying to call him something else. I'm sure they're very expensive sweats, but sweats nonetheless. Next topic, Rex, Jim Furyk.

An old name, an old hat for these sort of team events was named an assistant captain for the U.S. Ryder Cup team, which of course would be captain under Keegan Bradley. Good veteran move, bad juju. How are you feeling? Are you loving it or laughing at the Jim Furyk will be back in the team room? No, I love Jim. I love it. The idea that Jim's in that team room. I will point out the caveat that clearly the PG of America decided to go in a different direction.

when it chose Keegan Bradley as this year's captain, that that was not, he was not in line to be a captain. He did not fall into the good old boys club, whatever it is you want to call it, that made the last few captains who were largely unsuccessful. Let's be honest about that as well. And so the PG of America probably felt like they needed to color outside the lines a little bit. It doesn't seem to me, however, that,

that Keegan is coloring outside the lines when it comes to his vice captains. And I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing because there is something to be said for institutional knowledge. I've had long, long conversations with Davis Love about the idea that they are getting better every two years because of what they brought from the last Ryder Cup.

That, look, you need to peel away some of the negatives that go along with the last Ryder Cup, certainly Rome being the primary example here. But there are things that you probably learn along the way that can help out going into Bethpage this year. And you can say the same thing going into Ireland after that. So I love the idea of creating some sort of continuity, but it is a little curious in my mind. I think you probably need to love it.

Like you have a first time captain in Keegan Bradley, his assistants at this point are Webb Simpson, Brant Snedeker, Kevin Kisner, guys who only have experience in the president's cup. You probably need a Steve Stricker, a Jim Furyk, a Davis love type in the team room as well. So sort of just be that veteran savvy, a guy who's been there, who's seen basically every situation, uh,

that's come to pass in these team rooms in the past. Yes, he does not have the best record as a player. Yes, he does not have the best record as a captain when they got blown out at the Golf National a half decade or so ago as well. But you just need a veteran guy. It's like we're experiencing here with the Jacksonville Jaguars. You could have the head coach of Leon Cohen, first-time head coach, but they're also talking about bringing Ron Rivera in to the backroom staff as well as sort of an assistant head coach.

You have to balance it with veterans and newcomers. Such a mad football team. I'm loving it begrudgingly. Final topic of the Love It or Laugh It, which people are absolutely loving it. I can guarantee the Phoenix Open, which we'll be talking about much more in the Wednesday edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lab, is unveiling some changes, Rex.

Like a new gate entrance, digital tickets to gerb some of the behavior that has threatened the event, the most fun event on PGA Tour, and also the most disruptive. Are you loving or laughing the idea that these measures will be enough? I'm loving it.

And here's why. After last year's debacle, and it was awful, everything that happened on the golf course. But there's also a reason behind it, and it's just not drunks being drunks, which was sort of the excuse. You had generational weather. It was awful, and people couldn't get off the cart pass. And now you have thousands and thousands of people all funneled into one area that have been over-served. Tens of thousands, not thousands. Thank you. Tens of thousands. Tens of thousands.

And so bad things happened, and I don't think anyone should be shocked. My fear was the day after the final round on Monday, I happened to be in Connecticut co-hosting golf today, and we had Chance Cosby on, who was the tournament director at the time, and he talked about major changes. And I'd been friends with Chance for a long time, and I remember texting him after the show asking, please don't do anything drastic. What –

That event is special on the PGA Tour. And I've said this a thousand times that you have players who have already made up their mind a long time ago that that's not for me. That's not my brand of vodka. And they don't go. And that's fine. And then you have players who may not like it sometimes, but they've decided, you know what, I sort of like the atmosphere. And having been there a couple of times, it is a very unique, enjoyable atmosphere.

by and large. And so now that I actually have seen these changes come full circle and you hear some of the things they're going to do, it's a very light touch. And I'm really happy that they decided not to go full sale, cut alcohol sales at noon, limit ticket sales to half of what they were in the past. They could have gone over the top and taken away what makes this event special. And it's going to be drunk still, and you're still going to have obnoxious behavior. And once a year on the PGA Tour is probably the limit, but once a year is a lot of fun.

Shout out Chance Cosby, a big barbecue fan. I always go back to the fact, Rex, that Scotty Scheffler, who craves his routine, he craves patterns more than perhaps any player on the PGA Tour. He is a two-time winner of the Phoenix Open, and he has once again signed up for this year's tournament, clearly unafraid of sort of the atmosphere that he was going to endure. Now he plays great golf, and they have less to jeer at him about than most players, but I still think it's important to note that the world number one

is signing up once again. The tournament officials' motto this year, Rex, is better, not bigger. And so in that respect, I do think it's going to be slightly more mild-mannered. The eyes of the PGA Tour, the eyes of the community, all the eyes of the tournament organizers are going to be on the behavior. Like,

You can't have more incidents of guys wetting themselves, players getting heckled endlessly, like drunken buffoonery on the hillside. I do think that will be limited to an extent. I'm with it. This is the most profitable event on the PGA Tour. This is the most fun event on the PGA Tour. I don't think the changes will be so significant as to sort of alter what is just an absolutely incredible atmosphere for the Waste Management Phoenix Open.

All right, just a couple minutes left in the show. Let's rifle through some of these topics, Rex. Scotty Scheffler, the eight-time winner on the PG Tour and worldwide in 2024, made his debut, tied for ninth at the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am. Are you impressed or are you disappointed? Impressed. And, like, look, we didn't know what to expect, and I think both of us sort of agreed with the idea that he's still going to be Scotty Scheffler.

There was a concern, however, that whatever it is he did to his hand, and we got a better idea last week of how he actually hurt it, that it could have lingering effects. And I think what we saw last week was nothing more than rust. That the hand was 100% healed. He just wasn't at his absolute best the way he probably had wanted to be. So at this point in the season, I have absolutely no concerns at all when it comes to Scottie. I was very impressed. Like the dude just started hitting balls.

a week earlier and he said he sort of ramped up the intensity to make sure that he wouldn't have a setback and then have to miss more time and then all of a sudden he can't play Phoenix he can't play the Genesis maybe even the Florida Swing is endangered like Scotty Shuffler over four rounds at Pebble Beach and Spyglass he still led the field in approach play that lead that that leads me to believe he's hitting a bunch of greens with the smallest on the PGA Tour and he's

reigning in his distance as well. That's something that you would think will be the last to come back is distance control. Scottie Scheffler picked up right where he left off. He basically just didn't make anything over the first three days. As you mentioned earlier in the show, like his T-ball cost him a little bit uncharacteristically. I have zero doubt this will be a big Scottie Scheffler year. My biggest takeaway from Pebble was just how much of a force Roy McIlroy could be, not necessarily any knock.

How about on the opposite side of the spectrum, Jordan Spieth's return tied for 69th in his first start since August and that hand slash wrist surgery. Are you concerned at all with the early returns from Mr. Jordan Spieth? It's probably not 10 out of 10, but it's probably an 8 out of 10. It's not too far off. Your concern level?

It's high. It's very high. And the reason why, just statistically, he just didn't do the things that you anticipated him to do. Like, forget about the 79 he shot on Saturday. We addressed the idea that those were awful conditions. It was just the idea of he didn't do anything particularly well. 52nd in strokes gained off the tee. 65th in strokes gained tee to green. 62nd strokes gained a putt. 70th in strokes gained putting. There's only 78 players in the field.

So you don't have to do the math, anything more than that. He didn't do anything well. And we keep going back to the idea that this is an injury that we have seen in careers. I'm not saying it's going to end Jordan's career. And certainly he didn't.

shed some more light on exactly how debilitating this actually was, how it hit him last year during the Open Championship, where in the middle of the round, he had to figure out a way to pop the tendon back in place and keep playing in a major championship. And that was the deciding factor. Like, this is it. I've got to go and have the surgery. And you feel like eventually he's going to get to a point where he can compete. He can be something close to the Jordan Spieth that I would argue that the PGA Tour desperately needs, but it's hard to see based on that result.

Bogey free 67 on Sunday, at least some signs of progress since didn't quite have that form over the first three days, maybe something to build on. I think if Jordan Spieth can be competitive by the Masters, I think that'd be a win. I don't want to be an alarmist, Rex, but Jordan Spieth is only exempt on the PGA Tour through the end of this year. And so the sponsor exemptions into the signature events that he's undoubtedly going to get.

The remainder of the season could certainly go a long way to Jordan Spieth, making sure that he's inside the top 70 and making sure that he's moving on with his career in a positive direction. Final topic, at least on punch shots, Bernhard Langer and Paul Azinger both said that they expect Tiger Woods to play a healthy amount of PGA Tour champions events beginning when he is eligible for that circuit in 2026. You buying it?

I don't know what to say to Fred who came up with that graphic. I'm not quite sure what often, man. If you'd asked me this question five years ago, I'd have no, absolutely no chance. I just, you didn't see it happening that whenever his time was done on the PGA tour, his time competing was going to be done. We have seen a new side from Tiger Woods the last few years where the,

The few instances that he actually does get to be in the locker room and to be on the range and to be in that environment that I think he truly misses, you see a lightness in his step. You see his face light up. You see him become a different person. So, yes, I think going in, he turns 50 in December. I'm not quite sure how many times he would play on the PGA Tour champions next year. At the very least, I think he would probably play the major championships next.

and maybe one or two others just to stay sharp if he can, if he can physically do it. And again, that's a big if when it comes to Tiger Woods. But yes, I think this is a different version of Tiger, and he would probably cherish the opportunity to go and hang out, quite frankly, with his contemporaries, to go and hang out with Freddie, who's a good friend of his, and Marco Mira, who was always there for him, and John Cook, who's been a friend of his forever. I think he will. Look, there's five senior majors,

I could see Tiger Woods playing those in addition to the majors for the under 50 set as well. It's hard to see him teeing up at the Chubb Classic or in Des Moines or going to Minnesota. It's hard to imagine that. But if Tiger Woods can play 10 to 12 times through the course of the year in 2026 with the aid of a cart in some events, I think we would certainly sign up for that. Just a couple listener questions before we get out of here, Rex. I think we're going to start with Pony Express 2724.

And by looking at Pebble Beach, also the LPGA event in Orlando. In honor of the LPGA and the PGA Pro-Am, which pro sport generally produces the best golfers?

hockey players and baseball players. Like, I don't know if I could pick one, but you and I both have played with plenty of former professional hockey players and baseball players. And for some reason, the swing, the way their body moves, they just understand how to do it much better than any other athlete. Certainly better than like my brother-in-law played in the NBA and he can't play golf with a lick. Yeah. Look, it's not like first basements. It's not outfielders, but pitchers who have more time off, uh, the rotational aspects, uh, tennis players also tend to make, uh,

Good golfers as well. NFL kickers, like running backs, it's hard. Linebackers is hard just because you're so muscle bound. But kickers, sort of like leaf pitchers in baseball. They have more time off to hone their games, and they certainly have the physique to do so.

That is going to wrap it for this edition of the golf channel podcast with Rex and lab. You and I will be back on Wednesday for a full preview of the waste management Phoenix open. Always one of the most fun events on the PGA tour Rex. You'll be back on golf today for a round table and you and I will chop it up again this week. Thanks as always for listening. Thanks for the support. We'll talk to you guys in a couple of days.

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