🎙️ New Episode How Fluency MC Went Viral Teaching English with Rap | Business English for Global Professionals | Speak Clearly & Confidently at Work
46:23 Share

This is the Real English Conversations podcast, where we help you to communicate clearly and confidently in the conversations that matter most in the workplace and your professional life.

Hey everyone, it's Curtis here from the Real English Conversations podcast, and I'm really excited about today's episode because I'm talking to someone who's taken a totally different approach, totally different path to help people learn English in a way that actually works. My guest today is Jason R. Levine, but you probably know him as FluencyMC. You might have seen one of his viral videos like Stick Stuck Stuck.

It's the one where he raps all the irregular verbs and thought, wait, this is English learning? Yep, that's him. Jason blends rhyme, rhythm, music, repetition to help learners remember English in a natural way. No boring grammar drills, no endless worksheets.

Just real rhyme, real language, real fun. He's worked with the U.S. State Department and taught in over 20 countries and helped millions of learners around the world connect with English in a way that sticks. Fluency MC, welcome to the Real English Conversations podcast. It's finally awesome to have you here, man. We've been trying to get together and do this podcast for I don't know how long, but it's

It's finally happening, so welcome. - Oh, thank you. Yeah, and we've known each other well through social media for a lot longer than that. So yeah, it's great to be here. Thanks for inviting me, giving me the opportunity to reach all your followers. - Cool, so let's start from the beginning. You were a hip hop DJ, two turntables, a bunch of wax, a bunch of vinyl, a bunch, a ton of records.

way before the world knew you as Fluency MC. And then at some point, that love for the music led to writing rhymes. And somehow you ended up using that same style to teach English. Can you walk us through that story? When did you first connect the dots between music and language learning?

With great pleasure. And I really love how you put that. Yeah, people often assume, I mean, it makes sense, right, that I was an MC who became a teacher, but it really wasn't like that. I was a DJ. I was a drummer who then became a DJ. But, you know, I got into hip hop when I was in 1982, when I was 12 years old. So, you know, I was into beats, you know, so whether on the drums or

DJs and then my first like you know artist name or whatever was a DJ name I was DJ Jace I was DJ Lucky Jace I was on the radio once as DJ Grover because I could imitate Grover from Sesame Street so I was making mixtapes I was doing that you know so I would mess around with

with rhymes just for fun, kind of the way like, you know, someone who MCs might mess around on the turntables, you know, that kind of thing. But it was when, not when I started teaching, but 10 years into teaching, I'd used music like many teachers had used, but I'd used, you know, other people's music, not my own. And I hadn't really, you know, I'd made some beats, but not, you know, seriously, you know, so I wasn't, you know, thinking I'm,

I'm going to bring my music into my teaching as much as I'm going to bring my knowledge of music into my teaching. So I'd bring stuff in and hip hop was, was, was, was perfect because I was teaching in New York students coming from all over the world. Hip hop, there's a hip hop scene in every country. So it was a way to be connected, you know, culturally there was, there was a good vibe. Cause I was, we saw I was a DJ. I'm in New York. Hip hop started in the East Bronx, you know, so all of that stuff, they were curious about hip hop. So,

So, yeah, it was more just, you know, realizing two things, I guess. One was realizing that as great as bringing in, you know, rap songs was,

it was more of a cultural thing that we could do with it, you know, and, you know, when there's so, you know, so much slang and stuff in there, you know, hip hop, hip hop, you know, expressions from the culture that, you know, they were into that. But like I had students that, you know, needed to form basic sentences to communicate in pharmacies and, you know, higher level students who needed to take the TOEFL exam.

You know, so this is not the best use of time in the classroom. It was like often just too difficult, you know, to use it. So, and nevermind like, you know, appropriateness, profanity, other things, you know, for certain students from certain cultures and whatever. So it was, there was that, but it was also just this realization that,

If my students were going to get anywhere, this is true in anywhere you're teaching, learning and teaching a foreign language, I think. But, you know, my students came with this idea, many of them, that they'd be in the States speaking English quickly, not like in their home countries where they were, you know, in classes with people with the same first language. You know, here they're getting this mix. They're taking more hours of English. But their level when they came was so low, a lot of them.

you know, especially for conversation, you know, chunks of language collocations, they didn't have them. So I was like, I got to do something. So I started making games with collocations into the lexical approach. Anyway, the games turned into songs when I realized that, you know, oh, if they're at home, listening to songs, music gets in your head. Let me try this out. Of course, I wrote a rap song. I can't sing. You know, that was obviously I was going to do that. And

You know, the first song I wrote was the song that's still the most popular one today for the irregular verb stick, stuck, stuck. And the students just loved it. There was no video. I did this on CD. This is before new media, YouTube, Facebook. So, yeah, because they liked it, that encouraged me to make more songs and

Calum went from there. Let's talk about early influences as an MC. Every artist has those voices that shape their style. Who are your top three or your top five MCs that really inspired the way you MC and how have they influenced the way that you deliver rhythm, flow and language in your teaching and what you do?

I mean, I think I've been asked that maybe once or twice in my life.

you know, obviously you're a hip-hop aficionado and that's why, you know, you want to know. But I think it's whether you are or not, it's really an important thing for any, you know, whatever artist, whatever you do with art, who influences you. And teachers are often not asked that question enough, I think, or don't reflect on it enough because, you know, teaching is, even if you're not doing music or theater or whatever with teaching, you know, something like

you know, something that we conventionally call an art form, teachings in art. But anyway, I think it's a great question. I love talking about hip hop. So here we go. One thing before I tell you is that, you know, one of the things that inspires me when I do my shows with kids, which, you know, I hope we can talk about today too, is students who ask me questions. We have like a question and answer period.

And a very common question is, you know, who's your favorite MC or your top five MCs, right? Your favorite rappers. And it was too difficult for me to answer. So I came up with my top 50. So I can tell you my top 50 either now or I'll do it later if you want, because this question is different. If you ask me for my top five, it'd be really, really hard for me to give you a top five, but I can give you a top five.

as far as who's influenced me and my style. That is possible for me to do. So, because I don't think, I think it's kind of a finite set. Like there's so many people I admire, but I'm not, I don't think they've influenced me necessarily or the style hasn't influenced me or whatever. So people who influenced me absolutely number one would be Rakim. Um,

uh number two uh would be either krs1 or cool g rap but if we can go chronologically both in terms of you know me discovering them and then just when they kind of came out so yeah rock hitman krs you know from 86 87 um cool g rap from you know year two after that uh who else black dot

From the roots, I would say Lupe Fiasco, definitely like early Lupe Fiasco. So that's five right there.

Yeah, cool. And was there one line from a song or one performance from one artist? It could have been any of those artists that you just mentioned that made you go, man, that's super cool. I want to do that. But for education. Again, like when I was listening to all those artists and even before that, you know, I was into Grandmaster Flats, you know, Mel and Mel, Kool Moe D, you know, or even earlier, you know, Kool J.

you know, I heard lines all the time, but again, I was so obsessed with, with music, the music side. So it was just beats, beats, beats, you know? So like as, as much as I love rock him, you know, what really, you know, made me listen to the Peyton full or, or criminal minded BDP or, you know, EPMD or like, you know, it was, it was the, it was the beats, man. I mean, I was, I was, I was more obsessed with DJs at that time, you know? Um,

So it was more when I was writing, but when I started writing songs for my students. I mean, I did write some raps before I wrote stuff for my students. It's not like I just – but, again, it wasn't super serious, and I wouldn't say it was so influenced. When I started writing raps for students, though, it was more like I saw – I felt things from songs that I loved more than I was feeling like I was going to those songs to get ideas, definitely. Yeah.

it didn't happen like that you know

just so many years of, you know, just listening to hip hop every day of my life. Let's talk about, you mentioned Stick Stuck Stuck. It was on CD before YouTube even was, you know, a thing, man. And once it was a thing, that song took over the internet. It's one of those rare teaching tools. That's actually cool and fun. What inspired it? And when it started going viral, how did that,

feel for you? How did that change the way people saw you, not just as a teacher, but as a performer? Yeah, well, let's start with the first part of the question. So, you know, what inspired it was, you know, sort of referred to generally what inspired it

So, you know, the fact that I had these students from all over the world that didn't have like a base and one of the things missing was a regular verse. But then I remember very clearly a specific student, Jianli, who was studying to be a nurse, who was a nurse in her country, but, you know, to be a nurse in the States, among other things, needed to get her English to a certain level to get into a program, etc. She was really, really struggling. And, you know, she was typical of so many students that I have at the time.

And, you know, she, you know, she would not talk about the past because of the regular verbs. You know, like she would just avoid, she was so worried about saying something like, you know, yesterday I eat or yesterday I see, you know, that she...

She had just stopped. She'd been so intimidated, you know? So yeah, that was, she wasn't like, I need something to remember irregular verbs as much. Like I'd already started to think about that idea of, of going from game games to songs. And actually, so the more I assume, let me stop. It's like, that's not exactly true. I already had these card games, which I'm working on now again, which is interesting. I'm like moving back, but the card games that students would play, you know, I would enter regular verbs, um,

I had, you know, lots of collocation games, make and do game, you know, you know, here, listen, take, get stuff. So, you know, these, these are the songs, these are the things that became my songs, right?

So, you know, I just said, well, which song should I write first? Well, regular verbs, you know, that's the most important one for my students. And, you know, wasn't thinking about students outside my classroom. Like, as you said, like YouTube wasn't around yet, you know, there wasn't anything around. This was, you know, a flip classroom idea before people use that term, which was like, you know, students are going to repeat the songs at home.

you know instead of repeating lectures like when we talk about flipped classrooms usually or whatever but like it's it's what it's what doesn't need to happen in the classroom or can't because there's not time you know class should be where you're doing things and in in language in the case of language learning right it's like you're you're communicating the classroom doing activities right but you know those communicative activities are impossible to to succeed in if

If you don't have the language right here to access easily, if you're translating, you're looking at the board, you're looking in the book, you get bored, you get frustrated. So that was just an obvious thing to me. It was more like when I realized music can do it, I was like, you know,

I'm just, I'm on it, you know? So that would, then the next part of the question you're asking is about what happened when more people saw it, right? So that was initially not like, oh, wow, I understand this new media thing. I want to get it out, get my song out there and get people to know me. It wasn't that at all. What it was, was students who saw me very rarely do it in the classroom.

Because the thing was, I did stuff on CD. I was not, I was comfortable, you know, drumming in front of people because I'd done a lot of shows as a drummer. I was comfortable DJing because I'd done a lot of parties and been on the radio. But I was not comfortable rapping in front of people whatsoever. Like, I felt like a poser. I felt, I mean, I think part of that is just how much hip hop culture was like in my veins at that point, you know, 20 years.

six years old, 27 years old. You know, I, I just, you know, I, I felt like I'm not a rapper, you know? So, so yeah. And I wasn't good enough yet also. I just hadn't practiced enough yet. I was good enough on a CD because I could, you know, redo it, but like live, you know, I wasn't going to,

I was going to mess up. Anyway, students begged me because they were like, oh, you know, I want my sister in Italy to see this or my friend in Ukraine to see this, right? In Japan. So I was like, okay, whatever. So yeah, I did it. The video that most people know

You know, if they know me, they probably know that video. I'd be surprised to ever meet someone who knew a song of mine without knowing Stick Stuck Stuck first. But I guess it could happen one day, maybe. But yeah, that was it. Really, it was kind of an overnight thing.

thing in the sense that, you know, students saw it quickly in lots of countries that at that time, you know, it was easy for something to kind of organically take off. You know, there wasn't a lot of stuff in that space the way there is now. And yeah, I got teachers contacted me. Well, we're using a song in the classroom, you know, can you come visit us? You know, and that's how I started traveling around. But so it changed. It

It changed a lot of things. I mean, right. The first thing it changed was just like the inspiration it gave me. It's like, oh my God, if I can help students that are not just physically with me in this room, you know, like it wasn't like, oh, like I can be a celebrity or be famous or something like that. It was like, if you know, if you're, if you're a,

If you're a passionate teacher, like I think I can speak for any passionate teacher, like if you can reach more people, especially if you develop materials, something that I've been doing for years, so I'm creating stuff, whether it's card games, videos, songs now.

So it's like, wow, if more people can see what I'm doing. And then I was a teacher trainer pretty early on, too. So I've got these teachers in places like Morocco and, you know, Turkey telling me, oh, you know, this is helping me teach. And, you know, I'm getting ideas for how to make some, you know, materials to do with your songs. And I'm like, what? You know, I'm doing that on Facebook with people. So, yeah, it was it really it really changed everything in a very positive way. Nothing negative about it.

Such an inspiring story of boosting self-confidence for yourself too, because you had to, you had to get out there and go on stage. So you've taught classrooms, led workshops, performed on stage in more than, I don't know, what is it, 27 countries now? Or 28. 28? Yeah. Is there a moment? I just got from a new one, so I got to count again. Yeah.

All right. Is there a moment that really stands out from all of that travel? Something that reminded you why this work matters or maybe just a moment that made you think, wow, this is crazy. I get to see the world. I love that. Yeah.

Yeah, well, I mean, the best thing, I mean, the best things about traveling and doing shows for kids are things, you know, anybody could probably imagine if you're into traveling and learning about new cultures and what I was just saying about being a passionate teacher and reaching people, you know, new media definitely makes it a

a bigger deal when you go and people have already seen you and, you know, now you're seeing you in person, you know, but really important thing I learned and doing what I, what I do, I'll give you a great example. I was in Poland and,

in Warsaw. And there are other stories like this, but this is the best one. And so it's a good one to explain what I want to explain. So there was a student, she was probably 14 years old, 13 years old, came up to me before the show, which was unusual, coming up to me like really fluent and accurate English, like she had, one of her parents was

you know, from, from Australia or the States or whatever, or she traveled abroad, something like that. And we're talking, she's telling me, I've watched all your videos and really what you do and all this stuff. So I'm so curious. I asked her, you know, your English is so amazing. How, you know, why is it as good as it is? You know, because I imagine, I mean, I know how many hours a week she has in Poland or whatever. So I'm expecting her to say something like I said, like, you know, she's,

bilingual family or whatever. So she said, oh, well, yeah, I don't have any family or friends speak English, but I like to play this game online.

And so this is also kind of early enough in my travels to not really have heard a lot of these stories. I was just like, that's in my mind. That's impossible. How are you speaking with like this flawless English from a game if you're just chatting with people from Korea and Brazil in broken English, I'm assuming. Anyway, I'm not saying that to her, but I'm imagining that's what's going on. So I'm thinking, okay.

There must be something else. So I ask her, is there anything else you do with English? And this is, there are certain moments of these conversations that really resonate with, you can tell. It's just like she's had to stop and think for a second. Like, you know, it's like, oh, well, yeah, you know, to do well in my game. So she didn't say to improve my English, you know, to do well in my game.

I need to watch these videos. And I said, oh, okay. Which video? She's like, oh, you know, like it's people who play the game showing you what to do, like, you know, in the game. And I was like, okay. And I didn't really, I didn't really thought about this. I'm not a gamer myself. So I had, you know, I sort of imagined my son who was a gamer and around that same age, actually, you know,

Probably watching videos like that. I mean, I see him playing the games. I mean, I'm not sure. Is it a tutorial of the game or whatever? So I asked her, the next question was really important to me because my whole thing with music is like we naturally repeat music. It's the repetition that helps us, you know, remember all of the grammar and vocabulary and the pronunciation. And it's natural repetition because we like to repeat songs naturally, not like, you know, old fashioned repetition.

wrote learning so i asked her do you you know when you watch these videos do you do you watch them only once and she was like looked at me like i was you know insane she's like no no no no i have to watch the same video again and again and again again and then i'm like

you know, kind of getting shivers kind of thing. Right. And she's like, and she's like, and then she said, you know, I have to do that because I have to, you know, watch what to do, go back to the cane, go back to the video. And what that's called is, you know, in learning spaced repetition, right. It's what Duolingo does. Right. For example, you're learning some vocabulary set, they'll give you the words and then you get it again at certain intervals. Right.

So that's also why songs work. Because if we like a song, we don't usually listen to it five times now. We'll listen to it now and then tomorrow or whatever. Little kids like to hear five songs in the car again, the same thing again, because when you're at that level, your brain can develop by how often. Anyway, that's another topic. But the point is this girl is doing everything right, starting with the fact that she's

you know, not thinking I got to improve my English. She's just like my game, my game. And then what happened incidentally? So she's got this really high, you know, intrinsic motivation to, to play the game. And it becomes this bridge to like my videos and to, you know, she's watching series and all of this stuff. So the last thing I want to say about it, this is the reason I choose, choose this story is because it's,

I asked her, you know, so you really don't get a chance to practice English, I mean, to use English. And she's like, she kind of looked at me like, you know, kind of sad. She's like, yeah, you know, I only talk in English class. I was like, yeah. And she's like, yeah, this is the first time in my life I've had a conversation with somebody outside of English class. And if you didn't know what I know about second language acquisition, especially now, I mean, at the time it was almost like,

How can that be possible? But then the more students I've met like her, the more I've seen, you know, it's absolutely possible. And just quickly, for anybody who's not a

I can't believe that. And if you were there, you would never, that's the first time she talked to somebody. But I like to think about, you know, sports and music a lot when we talk about language because, you know, it's muscle memory. It's a skill that needs repetition in order to, you know, get accurate enough to then be able to perform, right? Yeah.

It's the same thing, I think. So, you know, music, for example, imagine a kid who's like obsessed with the guitar, you know, Jimi Hendrix riffs, you know, Led Zeppelin, Jimmy Page in his room or her room, whatever, just playing

Non-stop, you know, non-stop the way this girl was non-stop, you know, does he need somebody to hear him play in order for him to get to a certain level? Actually, if somebody watching probably is going to impede the process, right? Because if somebody is watching you,

then you're performing. You're not practicing. Practice is the repetition you do. And, you know, if you have high motivation and you're doing it high volume, you know, you would not be surprised with this guitar example if one day you're

the you know the kid's dad was like hey you know you always play it with the headphones on every year you know okay you play it and the kid's like okay and he just you know wows out how are you that good you've never performed for anybody it's like

That's not performance is not good. Right. I mean, then it can make you good. But then then you're at another level. So that girl had that conversation with me and that took her to another level. So the moral of the story is like, don't speak English to people. Just hold up in your room. But, you know, if you can do it, have a balance, that's even better. Right. But but the moral of the story is, I think.

Learning a language or any skill is not about just production, right? It's mainly about repetition and practice. And that builds the confidence that can make you fluent. I think what she did is something that I help my students do too, is when you practice, you're practicing the right thing.

She got into the science of how these people were communicating with each other from watching the videos and studying. These are how gamers talk to each other in English.

And when you focus on repeating and practicing the right type of things from a sport to playing drums, we're both drummers. Dad's a bass player and him and I grew up as the natural rhythm section, right? So he would, as a kid growing up, 9, 10, 11 years old behind the drum kit, he

I wanted to play the whole song all the way through. We were playing along to a lot of R&B and soul and old Motown stuff and reggae, roots reggae. My dad just had...

You know, that was half of my record collection that I had to sell before I moved to Mexico. So my dad would say, no, we got to play this part over again until I got the, you know, I was right on the beat and the rhythm of things. So yeah.

Having my dad be a teacher like that to me really showed me if you repeat and practice the right thing, then you're going to advance way quicker.

so it's the right thing and it also has a lot to do with with your personality and the timing and some because you know i have a picture of a kid playing the piano and we're talking about practice with students and the kid's expression you know i asked do you think he's into the repetition he's doing if we're let's assume he's doing scales or you think he doesn't like it and it's hard to tell and that's the thing like you know if it's not fun to repeat you're

You're not going to do it. And like the way you're describing with your dad, like you might have first be like, I want to play the whole song. But like you repeating those things was still that wasn't like, you know, this awful thing. So, you know, if it's if it's like that, some people hate playing the piano. Some people are not going to do enough practice with tennis to get good enough. Then it's not for you.

Got to think of something else. So I think it's also like, you know, there's that. But what you said is interesting about being the right thing because, you know, this girl wasn't thinking about

it's good to learn with gamer English, but what she discovered, you know, not consciously, was that she was getting this input that was like the most important basic conversational level English there is, you know, oh, don't go there, okay, open that door, okay, then go over here, oh, you know what you need to do now? You need to come over here and try to check out what, you know, just the phrasal verbs alone, you know, phrasal verbs are so hard to learn, well,

It depends. That's how you do it, right? Yeah. Yeah, if you find a way, it can become...

It's so much easier. It's finding that right way and the science behind it. So traveling around and performing, that's the rhyme on time side of things. And then you've got another project I was checking out your website called Speak on Beat. So these are, I know Rhyme on Time's been around for a while, but Speak on Beat is a fairly new project that

What are they about? Who are they for? And how do they help learners to speak more naturally and feel the language as they practice? Yeah, it's great to talk about them together because they are very connected. Rhyme on Time, yes, the show I do for learners of all ages, you know, I have songs for, you

The little ones, alphabet, numbers, you know, all the way up to university level stuff. Business English, you know, you name it. So I travel mainly in France and countries close to France now because luckily, you know, I've been doing this long enough that now I'm a little more well-known here. So, you know, a lot of people think, oh, you know, it's very glamorous to go off to countries all over the world. Yes and no. I mean, the main reason I was doing that

so much was because it's the only way to get enough work was to do it that way. But yeah, now I'm connected enough with the schools here and I'll go back to the same schools repeatedly. And so I can come home from dinner after doing shows, but yeah, rhyme on time is, is me on stage, bringing students on stage. Yeah.

where we're uh i'm playing videos of my songs we stop we joke you know we do call and response stuff you know it's a lot of a lot of hip-hop vibe uh throughout um and yeah i mean it's most popular or maybe that's not it's i'm mostly you know uh contacted to do it with middle school high school um

You know, I think primary school, I think in some countries it's not necessary because there's enough like kid stuff. If you get kids, you know, what I would do for the little kids is not that different from what maybe somebody else would do with little kids. You know, a lot of little kids songs out there. But to get middle school and high school students to get into songs, it's

is a different matter altogether. And that's how I built what I do. You know, G. Unleashed, Six Stuck Stuck, these were, you know, 20, 21-year-old people, you know. So it was like, you know, young adults. I needed to make sure that they were digging the music and the lyrics or they're not going to listen to it. So that's Rhyme on Time. The way Speak on Beat connects to it is that, you know, one of the,

the toughest things about, well, the only tough thing about Ryan Montagno, I mean, one of the toughest, I guess what I mean, one of the toughest things for me generally, but specifically Ryan Montagno is when I do a show and I'm there for 90 minutes with a group of kids, it might be 30 kids, it might be 300 kids. You know, what are they going to do after I leave is, you know, always on my mind because my hope is,

What I do is enough of a hook if they didn't know me already, for example, and a lot of times they don't. But they'll then, you know, go watch my videos on YouTube or their teacher will, you know, give them some stuff to do with my songs or whatever. But there's no program. Right. And the thing is, like in France, for example, students get three hours, four hours max of English a week.

So if I'm doing a show for 90 minutes and then I leave and they're not getting, you know, the only way they're going to progress in English, right, is getting enough outside practice, you know, outside of school. So it got very frustrating being like, you know, get them all hyped up and, you know, go to my YouTube channel where stuff's disorganized. And, you know, I don't have something for them.

So it's not a new idea. I finally decided basically how to make it work. I'm pretty confident. It's not released yet. It's not out. So I can't tell you, you know, about how it's been so far. But I'm going to pilot it. I can give you more details later. But basically the idea is that after school, each week there's a new theme. There's a five minute video you watch. You can just watch it on your phone where you're doing what you do in rhyme on time. You're, you

You know, I say, what's your name? Where do you live? You know, if we're low levels or whatever, they're like practicing, you know, yes, no questions, WH questions, you know, all the different grammar and vocabulary that they get in school, but they don't get enough practice with. So, yes, I'm really...

psyched about that. I mean, one reason, the main reason it's not available is because I've been so busy with Rhyme on Time, so that's the irony here. I haven't, you know, been able to really get enough people to

to commit to wanting me to do it because I kind of need that because I have to make the videos. There'll be 108 videos total. So what I've decided to do is, you know, that seems crazy. Yeah, I mean, I can do it. It's not that it's, I really already know after, you know, 27 years of teaching, 26 years of teaching, you know, I mean, I have so much experience

I can get it done. But what's more reasonable for me and for the teachers too, because some of them aren't sure like will their school order it or how it will work, is to do like a month pilot. So that's my new plan, November 1st.

you know, September, October in this hemisphere, you know, in the North. Anyway, at the beginning of the year, it's a little too hectic to start something. So I'm thinking, you know, November, do something where it's free or it's practically free or pay what you want or something. And I also have to get a handle on like the logistics of people ordering it and whatnot. But anyway, yeah. So Ramatimes the show, Speak on Beat is the afterschool practice program.

Nice. Speak on beat sounds like a cool concept because it sounds like almost if you were being physically trained, you have a personal trainer and you've got these short five-minute workout sessions, practice workout sessions. It's like going to the gym for your English, right? The weekly workout with FluentCMC. And God, if I just like – it's just – if I just –

That was for adults, you know, and I'm doing that for adults. And it wasn't a total, you know, bomb, but it was pretty hard to keep it going. It took a lot of time. But, you know, I was doing it with adults because I'm thinking, you know, adults need this. Adults need this. Meanwhile, I'm doing these Rhyme on Time shows, and it took me how long to figure out? I was like, wait a second, I should...

I should have the after school program be like what I'm doing in the schools. Anyway, I was trying to do kind of both. How can I hit the kids in the schools and hit the adults with a program in video? But I think it's also times have changed and now kids, you know, have a phone on the bus kind of thing.

So when I was thinking about it before, it was more maybe kids wouldn't be doing it. So anyway, we'll see. But yeah, Speak on Beat, it's like the name says. It's focusing on the rhythm of the language. We don't say, a lot of people, students I meet here would say, speak on beat, speak on beat, right? So it's already speak on beat, right? It's already giving you the, I mean, rhyme on time too, right? It's already there. Yeah.

I love how they roll off the tongue really nicely. You named them very well. Thank you. Something else I really like is your...

Three R's, relax, repeat, and remember. And I got to say that really hits home for a lot of English learners. Can you explain what that mindset means in real life? And how can people use that idea and concept and mindset when they're feeling stuck, stressed, nervous, or unconfident or unsure if they're making progress? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, songs are one of the best ways or like TV commercials with little jingles and stuff. Like, you know, if you, if you're learning English and you're thinking like, you know, it's hard to remember English. Uh,

I'll bet, right, there are some, you know, whether it's a commercial in English, you know, whether it's an espresso, what else, or whether it's like somebody says hello and you're like, hello, it's me because the Adele song, like, you know, whatever it is, or baby shark or, you know, there is English that you remember right away. And that's because you were not trying to study it. Relax is, you know, not stress, but relax is also, you know,

language acquisition, not conscious learning, right? I mean, that's how commercials get you, you know? You're just like totally numb in front of the TV or whatever.

or whatever, now TikTok and like, you know, that's the paradox, right? You're not trying. And so with enough repetition, right? So that's the second part, repeat, right? Once isn't going to do it. You will remember. And so how to apply that, how to get out of the mindset of like, that's different from other learning. No, it's not, you know? So-

There are moments where you want to stop consciously, analyze grammar, or think about it. That's fine, but not if it impedes acquisition. We were talking about phrasal verbs earlier. If you've got enough critical thinking power, and this is why kids usually learn, one of the reasons kids learn languages faster, you stopping and be like, okay, is this a transitive or intransitive phrasal verb?

Is a particle always a preposition? Why don't they just call it that? Oh, it can be an adverbial particle. If that nine times out of 10 is not going to enhance your acquisition of phrasal verbs,

You know, so if you, you know, I've got songs with phrasal verbs, for example, you know, try that out. Try doing it while you're reading the lyrics. Don't think, oh, I should not read the lyrics. Just relax. You know, the way that I remember lyrics best is just by reading my own songs, reading my own lyrics over. What do actors do? You know, they they don't force themselves to stop looking at the lines.

What happens is, you know, ask an actor, they'll tell you the best way is just when you're ready to not look, you don't look. Right. And so, you know, but, but wow, teachers, including myself in the past, I mean, I, I, I speak about this, like, you know, it's kind of obvious, but I don't think it is obvious because we're, we're taught very differently how to, how to think about learning and teaching and

I'm teachers who are like, well, I don't let them look at the lyrics because they need to remember. You know what I mean? Or I have students where it's like their listening skill is so low, they do so badly on a TOEIC listening or TOEFL listening. I'm like, guys, you need to read while you listen. This is called immersive reading. It's the way to do it.

And they'll still, you know, okay, guys, put the script up. We're going to listen now with the script. And our students are still closing their eyes. They're not looking because they're trying to test how they can do it. You know, well, on the real test, you can't read. Well, right. But you need to be able to see those words when you're taking the test. You haven't seen them enough, you know. So stop trying to tell yourself, I shouldn't look at the words anymore.

You know, that to me, that's crazy. But I used to be like that too, both as a teacher and a learner.

Yeah, you need to see. I'm a very visual learner and learning Spanish this way and doing small chunks of it, but I'm always using transcriptions. I'm always using subtitles if I can get the most accurate ones to learn from them.

So many of my students have that same kind of, oh, no, you're not allowed to read. You're not allowed to use the subtitles. That's bad. Even looking upwards. I think it's changing. I'll tell you why. Because, you know, now native speakers of languages are getting used to having, you know, TikToks with the words because you don't always have, you know, you don't always want to listen or you're listening to something else. That seems to be changing constantly.

I mean, the whole idea with AI, what's going to happen with languages, that's something else. But one thing, because I can't digress into that, back to this, one thing I tell students, and this would be great for your students or any students, I think, with the script idea, for the ones who really don't believe it, what I say is this, look,

If I'm taking, if I'm taking, doing a TOEFL listening, like a lecture about, you know, Australopithecus or whatever, right? If I'm, if I'm listening to this really high level lecture, you know, C1 English, I don't need the script, but,

If I want to, I can turn on this text. I can turn on this. I can turn on the subtitles. I can see them if I want to. Right. It's like, try that, you know, in French, for example, because I have a lot of French students. Right. Or just, can you imagine same lecture in French? You're not reading it, but if you want to, you can read it. You can read it. So what does that mean? It means that in French,

English for you and in French for me, right? We need during a test like that to be able to see the words. Yeah. Because it's not your first language. You're never not going to need to see the words until you, if you ever get bilingual or something. So you need to be able to see the words, which means you need to read more while you listen. Where can people find you online? Follow your stuff and check out Speak on Beat and all the other cool things that you've created.

Thanks, man. FluidCMC.com used to be a hot mess of a website. It is definitely not a website you're going to want to spend a lot of time on because there's very little there that you can do. But at least it kind of looks better. It's cleaned up.

Easy to go there and then go to my social media or vice versa. So yeah, I got a website there. You can play fluency cards on the website. You can check it out. The first version of it, it's going to be very, very different when it's done, but there's that. Speak on Beat, there's a video about it. If you're curious as a teacher or a learner about Speak on Beat or Rhyme on Time, best thing is just get in touch with me. My website, first thing you see is a contact. I mean,

I answer everybody personally. Um,

So, yeah, if you're interested in anything or need support in some way or have a suggestion or anything like that. But, yeah, I mean, otherwise, you can just if you if you Google me, you'll see my Instagram, my TikTok. I spend more time, more time on TikTok and Instagram because there I get more eyes on my stuff compared to YouTube is practically impossible. You know, I have I have I have stuff there that like, you know, it's been there for six months, has 800 views online.

in six months where I get 800 views in an hour or two on Instagram. So, you know, YouTube's a job, you know, if you get up in the morning and make it your job, you can, you can make it work for you. But the days of just, you know, throwing content up there,

It doesn't matter how many subscribers you have. I have a lot of them and it doesn't, they never see my stuff. So anyway, love to get in touch with anybody that, that, that, that works with you, Curtis, for sure. You and I, wow, we have so much in common, music, teaching, even being drummers. I'm sure, I'm sure your students really, really benefit from, from what you do in this podcast. It's a great way for me to meet them. So salute.

Absolutely. That was amazing, Jason. Thanks so much for sharing your story, your creativity and some serious value for all of the learners out there, my audience, your audience. I think it was meant to be for this connection, this podcast to happen.

For everyone listening, go check out FluencyMC.com and follow at Fluency on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, wherever you hang out on social media. I'll drop those in the show notes so people can click on them and find you easily.

This guy has made English learning absolute joy for people. So honestly, it works. So you've got to check out FluentCMC and what he's doing on his socials and everything. If you're looking for a way to speak more fluently and remember what you learn and feel good while doing it,

Definitely give his stuff a listen. Relax, repeat, remember. Yeah, yeah. Thanks again, Jason, FluentCMC. It was a real pleasure having you on the Real English Conversations podcast. So good to talk to you. Take care.

If you're ready to take your English to the next level and start speaking with confidence at work, whether it's in meetings, job interviews, presentations, or important conversations with your boss, co-workers, or clients, I can help you. You don't have to feel nervous about finding the right words.

worrying about your accent, or struggling to keep up in fast-paced conversations. With the right practice and guidance, you'll be able to express your ideas and yourself clearly and naturally. Let's start with a trial lesson. We'll go over what you want to improve and

Do a quick evaluation and map out a plan to help you feel strong and in control when you speak English. I only have a few trial spots available each month, so if you see an opening in my calendar, grab it while you can. Click the link below to book your trial lesson with me now.