🎙️ New Episode: Mentorship, Leadership & Mindset Growth with Marcus Gurske | Speak English Clearly & Confidently at Work
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This is the Real English Conversations Podcast, where we help you to communicate clearly and confidently in the conversations that matter most in the workplace and your professional life. Hey everyone, it's Curtis here from the Real English Conversations Podcast, helping global professionals speak clearly and confidently at work.

My guest today is someone I've known for a long time, and he's no stranger to the Real English Conversations podcast. Marcus Kurski is back. You might remember his conversation with us from March of 2024. And if you don't, I'll drop the link to that episode in the show notes for anyone who missed it. This time, we're going to talk about something really important.

really interesting, and that's leadership and mentorship. What it really means to lead people and how you support others in ways that helps them to grow and succeed in their life and their careers. Marcus has been working in communications and leadership development for over two decades. He's led major projects, worked with global teams, and helped high-level professionals prepare for some

pretty big moments. He's currently based in Houston, but today he joins me from another part of the world. He's in Bali. Marcus, good to have you back on the Real English Conversations podcast, man. I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while, and it's great to have you back on. Hey, thanks, Curtis. Great to be back and great to catch up with you. As you said, we've known each other a long time, and it's always good when we have these conversations and catch up and happy to support you

in the podcast here. So yeah, let's get into it as they say. - Let's start here. You've been in a position to lead and mentor a lot of people for many years.

What do you feel is the real difference between managing someone and mentoring them? Allowing them the opportunity to make decisions and either succeed or fail by those decisions. So when you empower somebody with the opportunity to be engaged in a circumstance or a situation and they get to help dictate where they're going to go or how they're going to react or how they're going to respond,

that gives them the opportunity to actually be part of something. And to be part of something, you have to participate. You can't sit on the sidelines. And that means you have to also then be engaged in what's going on around you situationally.

what the possible outcomes can be. So understanding the situation and where and what possibly could affect what's happening around them. So again, you know, if you put someone in a vacuum, you don't allow them ever to engage with others, they'll never have the opportunity to grow. It's just like your podcast. If no one has an opportunity to speak English and engage in conversation, they'll never improve their skills.

Now, I want to take it a bit more personal with this next question. Was there someone in your life personally or professionally who mentored you in a way that really stuck with you? Absolutely. Early on, it's something I really didn't have, actually. I did not have a mentor. I had parents. I had teachers. I had educators in my life. But I really didn't have somebody early on who looked at me and said, hey, you have potential.

And you can do what you want to do. Part of that was the industry I started out in is communications and marketing and advertising, you know, which is a very competitive space. And so it took me a while to find someone who actually said, yeah, hey, let's do something and let's create an opportunity for you to gain experience and gain know-how and intelligence.

Right. You know, the people in your life in a formative in your formative years, like I said, your parents, your teachers, your educators, they're going to be what I call passively supportive. Right. They're going to be like, yeah, doing a great job, Curtis. You know, Curtis. Yeah. Keep working on you. You'll do better. But the difference between passive and aggressive is exactly that aggressively encouraging you like Curtis, you've got to do this.

Curtis, you know, you got to show up to a morning at 9 a.m. at work or 8 a.m. or whatever time and be here and put the time and the effort in. And then they have to trust you to actually deliver on what you've been tasked to do.

So early on, I didn't have that. I got a lot of people who enabled me in a passive manner, you know, were supportive, which was great. You definitely need that. And a mentor for me is someone who aggressively pushes you to be better. Someone who tests your limits, you know, helps extend your range.

And so early on, I had a couple of people who I thought were mentors, but I very quickly discovered they weren't. They were just there to like, hey, moving you along from this position to the next position. We were just checking boxes. We weren't actually doing anything. And it wasn't until I met a fellow by the name of Josh Keller, who took an opportunity, took a chance really on me and said, let's make, you know, we're going to have you work on this project and you're going to be responsible for these deliverables.

And if you don't understand what's happening or you don't know what's going on, ask the question, right? Just put your hand up and say, I don't know. Can you please help me? And that was the first bit of empowerment I really ever had in my life was that. And then after that came another man into my life, Keith, who I worked for as well as a client who became a client and, you know, again, was really good at just, you know, putting goals in front of me and pushing me towards those goals and,

And when I had questions and I didn't know how to proceed, was there to answer them and help guide me along the path so I could meet the expectations that were set forward for me. I think the ones who push you the most or want to be a bit hard on you and push you are the ones that have that sense of belief in not only you, but themselves as well.

So they have that belief within themselves first to have the strong belief within you to be a true mentor to you, to give you that kick in the butt, you know, like you said, to move you forward and not be so cliche of, oh, yeah, just go and do it.

Yeah, there's the cheerleader aspect of, yeah, go and do it. You can do it. There's that type of support, but there's the different type of support in the mentorship there. So that clearly defines the two differences between someone who's trying to mentor you or just supports you.

And someone who's truly mentoring you. So the ones who push you further are the ones who believe in you more than the ones who don't. Absolutely. And both of them set great examples for me, both Keith and Josh of like, you know, it isn't just enough to show up.

you actually have to do something, right? You actually have to roll up your sleeves. You got to get some dirt under your fingernails. You can't be afraid to get dirty. You can't be afraid to put in the hard work.

and develop the skills. So both of them were really good mentors just by demonstrating what needs to be done, right? A lot of people are really good at think unfortunately of just, yeah, yeah, go ahead and do that. Yeah, yeah, this is what I need you to do. But they don't check back and they don't push you and they don't, you know, for lack of a better expression, kick you out of the nest, right?

And so both of them really set great examples of what it meant to put in the time, to put in the effort and to care, like really care about what you're doing. So I'm ever grateful for those two individuals. And since those two, I've now found other mentors, right? And even at my point in my career now, I'm, you know, in my early fifties, I still look for people that, you know, who can inspire me. I still look to people who can help me be better at what I do.

And that said, as I'm looking for that, the people I've had an opportunity to work with and grow and learn from have also demonstrated the importance of giving back. Right. So now how am I a mentor? How do I help inspire the next generation? How do I not just inspire, but help?

get them to where they need to be, right? Help them unlock their potential. You've worked in different parts of the world with teams from all kinds of backgrounds. How do you adjust your leadership or mentorship style depending on who you're working with? You know, the hardest thing to do in life is to just shut up and listen and listen to the people around you, listen to the people you work with, you know, and listening is an active, is an active point of engagement where you're listening to

And you're just not listening to what they're saying, but you're also watching them, right? You're watching how they say it. You know, when someone turns up their nose at something or, or scrunches their face, you know, that's a, that's a reaction. That's a, that's not just a verbal cue. It's a physical cue. So yeah, just listening to people and understanding what's important for them, what's motivates them, where they are in the project, where they are in the project team, you know, what are their goals? Like, what do they want to achieve?

A lot of times we're given a task to do something, but we don't stop to think about, okay, how is this person going to achieve success? And what's going to help them be successful as they're completing this task? So again, just listening, right? Just understanding the situation, right?

and the environment and people and the personalities, you know, I'm not a firefighter. I don't run into burning houses to put out a fire, right? My job in the world, my position in the world is to help people solve problems.

And yeah, sometimes you have to act quickly and respond in the moment. But more often than not, it's about listening. Everyone said college wouldn't fit my budget. Not WGU. Their tuition was about half the cost of other universities. So not only did I earn a quality degree, I did it without taking on any new debt. Apply free at wgu.edu.

and understanding what the problem is. So you can then provide good advice, good solutions and create a pathway for them to get out of whatever situation they're in to be in a better place. - I think people forget about those two most important things of communication. It's just not about speaking and speaking alone. Listening and body language and facial expressions is all a part of it.

So those are looked over or ignored or not taken into consideration sometimes. And for sure, you have to make sure that you're engaging in the conversation, using body language, making eye contact, doing all the necessary things you need to do within communication and not forget. Those are key parts to it as well.

So I'm glad that you brought that up and mentioned that because it's, it's overlooked or forgotten or not taken into consideration so many times. And it's the most important thing is to, yeah, to shut up and listen and pay actively, listen, pay attention to the person you're involved in, in the conversation with and totally engage with it. Uh,

Let's talk about new leaders for a second. Students and listeners to this podcast are going into leadership roles in their jobs. So for someone stepping into a leadership role for the very first time, what are some common mistakes you see people make when they're trying to be a mentor? Thinking that I know it all, right? Thinking that I come fully stocked, loaded, and ready to go. No, every situation is unique unto itself.

as are the people. And so again, getting to know the people, getting to know your surroundings, being humble, right? There was a point in my career where I was really good at creating a bit of chaos to create control in certain situations.

And for me, that was something that I had to, that was a bad habit. So I had to break that habit, right? And it was about being positive. And it was about being receptive to feedback, not always positive to me, right? Critical at times, which is important too, right?

If you're going to be a leader, if you're going to be somebody who's engaging in conversation, if you're going to be in that structure in place, then you have to be understanding that you got to take your lumps too, right? Like you, again, you don't know it all. You don't fully have the overview of the situation. You think you do, but you don't. Again, you got to stop and listen and learn.

And then you've got to be humble to think that with what you don't know, therein lies the solution or the path to a solution. Excellent. Here's something I've always been curious about. What's one thing you've noticed in great mentors? Something that most people wouldn't expect or maybe even overlook. I think that question I'll answer with an analogy of a coin. There's two sides to a coin and there's two things involved.

that I think great mentors have. One is compassion to understand what people are going through because they've been there and they can relate. And the other part is to be tough, provide some tough love sometimes, right? So when people got to suck it up, they got to suck it up. When they got to be told what to do and take it positively, or how should I say, maybe it's not so much how they're told, not telling them what to do,

but do it in a manner that is constructive and positive, right? You don't always have to tear somebody down to build them up, right? A lot of times how you deliver bad news and feedback,

Is this as important as explaining the why and the how? Do you think how you explain it in a tough, harsh situation, if meant to be, directly reflects on how the person is going to receive that information and react to it?

Oh, for sure. Not everybody can take feedback that's negative, right? And we're human beings, right? We have emotions. And again, you got to read the room. If the person is not set up to take feedback in a certain way, in a certain manner, well, then you have to adjust your delivery, right? If it's better to give a soft edge delivery as opposed to a hard edge delivery, then that's what you need to do.

you still have to deliver the message. It's just, how do you go about doing it? And, and again, there are times and places when you got to be, have a hard conversation with somebody when you have to be straight up and say, Hey, this is what we're at. And I'm sorry, you need to do better or you're not cutting it or, you know, whatever that message may be. But again, I think it's about just being observant of the person, knowing the people, being compassionate to what they're going through.

A lot of times, there's a lot of complexities in our lives, right? Whether it's on a personal note that intertwines with our professional or vice versa, it isn't just always as cut and dried as we'd like it to be. There's definitely black. There's definitely white. There's also a lot of gray. You've helped a lot of people communicate under pressure in some high stakes situations. How do you mentor someone to stay grounded and real –

Uh, when they're in the spotlight. Humility. Again, if you're chasing the spotlight and you want to be in it, if you're looking for your photo op, if you're looking for yourself to be in the headlines, you know, very quickly, those people get found out to be disingenuous.

So again, if you're doing something, you're doing it for the right reasons. And being genuine is so, so important. And that's a trait you can't train people in. You know, we talked about in the last podcast about how I help people with presentation training and crisis response training. You know, you just can't fake being genuine, right? And when someone has a comment of no, gives a comment of no response or no comment to a situation that they're in,

Today, we're very jaded individuals. We're a jaded society. So why do we assume that they're guilty, right? Instead of just setting themselves up for failure, it's about, hey, I don't know the answer to that question. Let me get back to you. Let me take a moment to investigate. Let me take a moment to get some more information and admit

that you don't know what you don't know, and then commit to coming back to people. So again, that humility, that being humble is really important. Not everyone fits the traditional leader image, right? I'm thinking of introverts or people working remotely now. And how do those people step into leadership or mentorship roles in their own way? That's a great observation and a great question. And

I'm a big basketball fan. And Tim Duncan, in the modern era, people think is one of the greatest power forwards ever, if not the greatest. In my mind, I think he's the greatest. But his leadership style was quiet, leading by example, supportive, strong when you need to be strong, but also then compassionate when you need to be compassionate.

Someone like Michael Jordan, who was just a machine, was just an amazing athlete, win at all costs. You know, I don't think we can ever use the words humble or compassionate with Michael Jordan. So modern day, back to your question, in a time and place where we work remotely, where we don't interact with people in the office every day, where we don't go into an office every day,

It's important to build relationships, right? I'm a big believer of you start a conversation with hello. How are you? How's your day going? Not just Curtis, we're doing this. We're doing it right now and we're going to be successful and great. We'll see it in the other side. You take a moment to build rapport, right?

And, you know, just being friendly, right? And, again, there's time and a place you got to get down to business. But I think in today's environment where we don't work together in an office setting traditionally that we have in the past or we do have other environments that we work in, I think it's important to build that rapport together.

build that opportunity to get to know people a little bit. And someone's having a bad day and you just stop and say, hey, how's your day going? Or just a friendly hello. That can change the conversation.

Right. That can go from, OK, this is not going to be a very good, good conversation or a great engagement to something that's rather passable and doable. So and to wrap it up with a forward looking question here with everything changing so fast these days with AI tech work culture expectations,

What do you think the next generation of leaders and mentors need to get right if they want to connect with people and have an impact? I think the most important thing you can do today, if you want to be somebody who's leading a team of people, is engage with the team, right? You can't sit back in isolation and think that people are going to do what you tell them to do.

and not have challenges, right? You need to engage with your team. You need to take the time to get to know them. You got to build relationship and build bonds. And that's really, really crucial because if you don't do that, you're not setting them up for success. And if they're not successful, ultimately it's going to fall back on you also because you're not being successful, right? You're not

empowering the people to get where they need to be to achieve the outcomes that are expected. So a lot of great tools out there now, AI, we're on the cusp of something just amazing and unlocking how we use technology with AI at the next level, but it still doesn't replace just having physical engagement, right? Human conversation, you know, and AI won't tell you if someone's having a bad day,

An AI won't tell you if someone's struggling in their personal lives. An AI won't tell you

you know, well, an AI will tell you pretty much anything you ask it, but will it tell you what you need to know? And that information you need to figure out yourself by just being engaged with those people around you. Marcus, this was such a great conversation. You brought a lot of clarity to what the difference is between leadership and mentorship and what that actually looks like in action. Not just theory, but real stuff people can apply. And I really appreciate that. Where can people start?

see you, find you, get in contact with you if that's what you want. Social media, that sort of thing. I'll put it in the show notes, but give yourself a plug here before we really wrap up. Well, I will finish on this note. Being a mentor is taking the time to care. Being a leader is pushing through to get people where they need to be. And so they're not mutually exclusive, number one. And number two is,

You can be both, but you have to understand you get to invest in yourself and

And then invest in those around you to be an effective mentor and also to be an effective leader. People can find me on LinkedIn. Marcus Gursky, M-A-R-C-U-S-G-U-R-S-K-E. That's how you spell my first and last name. You can find me on LinkedIn. You can go to marcusgursky.com, which is the landing page. It's just a way to get to me, to my LinkedIn or email. And yeah, if you're looking for a mentor, keep looking, right? You will find them as much as they will find you.

If you're looking to be a leader and improve, take the time to be engaged. Take the time to work on yourself and understand that we're all not perfect and that's okay. And if you want to be an effective leader, it means you have to be willing to put in the time to improve your personal skills, whatever that may be, because we all have problems and we all have solutions. We just have to be willing to invest ourselves in

to achieve those solutions. Fantastic. Thanks so much for being here and sharing your experience, Marcus. No problem, Chris. Always great to see you and catch up and future, wishing all the success in your future episodes and, and looking forward to hopefully coming back on sometime in the near future or, you know, whatever that may be and having another great conversation and, and sharing what we're doing in the world.

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